Hey I just started doing deadlifts, benchpresses, squats and latpulldowns.
The thing is I don't really look to gain weight. (I do 5x5, once a week)
So my question is: can you actually get stronger doing weights, without gaining weight?

Only educated answers please...
PS: also read this thread http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233927 because no one has answered there so far :(

Yes you can. It's called neural adaptations. It means that your body adapts by activating more of your existing muscle. You can only activate 40 to 50% of your muscle mass. Training can increase this number, thereby making you considerably stronger, without adding mass.
The key to gaining size is eating enough, just like the key to losing weight is proper dieting, training alone won't accomplish either.

Weight training once a week, you have nothing to worry about size wise, but you should maybe step it up to two ro three times a week, depending on your training schedule.

Yes you can. It's called neural adaptations. It means that your body adapts by activating more of your existing muscle. You can only activate 40 to 50% of your muscle mass. Training can increase this number, thereby making you considerably stronger, without adding mass.
The key to gaining size is eating enough, just like the key to losing weight is proper dieting, training alone won't accomplish either.

Weight training once a week, you have nothing to worry about size wise, but you should maybe step it up to two ro three times a week, depending on your training schedule.

Thanks
I have read before about the neural adaptions but it said you're body is almost fully adapted after just one month, and after that you start gaining muscle mass.

I can't really go weight training more than once a week because of time.
-wed/fri I go to the boxing gym
-saturday I go weight training + 20min HIIT
-sunday in the morning I go swimming (1hour) + in the afternoon: short workout with 6kg shotput-ball (or whatever its called): explosive slams, throws...
-tues/thurs I train a bit at home (explosive push ups, pull ups, jumps, heavy bag) (1hour)
-monday is my day off (sometimes I go boxing though)

So my next questions are:
1. Does weight training once a week make sense, without eating more/getting bigger? And will it maybe stop making sense after my body is adapted?
2. Are there any boxers that do weights and aren't moving up in weight? Or do boxers only do weights when they are trying to move up in weight?
3. Did the big punchers in history even use weights? Or what did they do to increase power/speed? (Gerald McClellan, Julian Jackson, Naseem Hamed,...)

Thanks in advance

Thanks
I have read before about the neural adaptions but it said you're body is almost fully adapted after just one month, and after that you start gaining muscle mass.

I can't really go weight training more than once a week because of time.
-wed/fri I go to the boxing gym
-saturday I go weight training + 20min HIIT
-sunday in the morning I go swimming (1hour) + in the afternoon: short workout with 6kg shotput-ball (or whatever its called): explosive slams, throws...
-tues/thurs I train a bit at home (explosive push ups, pull ups, jumps, heavy bag) (1hour)
-monday is my day off (sometimes I go boxing though)

So my next questions are:
1. Does weight training once a week make sense, without eating more/getting bigger? And will it maybe stop making sense after my body is adapted?
2. Are there any boxers that do weights and aren't moving up in weight? Or do boxers only do weights when they are trying to move up in weight?
3. Did the big punchers in history even use weights? Or what did they do to increase power/speed? (Gerald McClellan, Julian Jackson, Naseem Hamed,...)

Thanks in advance

Your body is not fully adapted after one month. They have weight categories in power lifting and Olympic weightlifting too, you know. Those guys get stronger for years and years.

1. It makes sense. The result won't be as good as if you train more, but on the other hand, recovering will be easier. Even when you get to a point where you don't keep getting stronger, you'll maintain the strength you have.
2. All my boxers do weights. I've even moved some of them down a division, while they're getting stronger (and faster).
3. Hard to say who did what, when. There are countless rumours though, I wouldn't listen too much to hearsay though... Big punchers are born, not made. Some guys can punch a hole in a steel plate without lifting a finger, and some guys can do all the training in the world and they'll never have a big punch. However, everybody can become a better version of themselves with the proper training. "Rocky didn't do weights and he had KO power" - Okay, but have you considered whether he could have been even more powerful if he had done weights? Beware of anecdotal "evidence"....

Awesome,
great thanks for the very clear answer once again!
I see how squats, deadlifts, benchpresses and latpulldowns can give you more power, but not really how they can make you faster though... (I can't really afford to explode with those exercises because that would be too dangerous I think. It's also too difficult to explode because of the high weight.)

What kind of exercises do you let your boxers do to get faster than?
I currently just spend a few minutes a day single jabbing as fast as I can. I've heard it trains the nervesystem and therefore makes you faster.
I'm also going to buy a resistance band soon so I can get some horizontal resistance on my punches. That should also make them faster no?

Alot of people say you should shadowbox with handweights but I don't see how that would work. The vertical resistance (gravity on the weights) only works the muscles that keep your arm up - with other words: the shoulders.

great answers Punchdrunk, should be made a sticky

Yes, for strenght you need to be performing few repetitions (1-3) of weights ~90% of your max lift.

Moderate weight and more reps (3-5 x 8-12) will result in hypertrophy, ie gaining muscle mass.

Low weight x lots of reps results in muscular endurance.

Training with weights and resistance bands increases hand-speed yeah, though dont expect to end up like RJJ or something.

Awesome,
great thanks for the very clear answer once again!
I see how squats, deadlifts, benchpresses and latpulldowns can give you more power, but not really how they can make you faster though... (I can't really afford to explode with those exercises because that would be too dangerous I think. It's also too difficult to explode because of the high weight.)

What kind of exercises do you let your boxers do to get faster than?
I currently just spend a few minutes a day single jabbing as fast as I can. I've heard it trains the nervesystem and therefore makes you faster.
I'm also going to buy a resistance band soon so I can get some horizontal resistance on my punches. That should also make them faster no?

Alot of people say you should shadowbox with handweights but I don't see how that would work. The vertical resistance (gravity on the weights) only works the muscles that keep your arm up - with other words: the shoulders.

Speed or explosiveness is correlated to your strength. The higher your strength, the higher your potential for speed and explosiveness. Don't be fooled by the fact that a heavy lift moves slowly. As long as you accelerate the weight as much as you can (which will obviously be slow at 85% or higher), your neural system and fast twitch fibers are working overtime.

With my fighters I use a system of punching drills (not shadowboxing per se) with hand weights, medicine ball drills where you mimick straight punches, hooks, and uppercuts. Depending on the duration/reps/timing of these exercises, I use for both developing power and power endurance.

You've misanalyzed the handweight thing a little IMO. Yes, when you hold it still, the resistance is vertical, but when you start moving it horisontally (by punching), the resistance actually shifts to horisontal. Think about it, it's the exact same type of resistance as your hand and/or the glove when you punch. Therefore it is absolutely a functional tool, when used correctly. :)

Moderate weight and more reps (3-5 x 8-12) will result in hypertrophy, ie gaining muscle mass.


Only when combined with a proper diet.

Moderate weight and more reps (3-5 x 8-12) will result in hypertrophy, ie gaining muscle mass.

Only when combined with a proper diet.

Thats right, without a calorie surplus you won´t gain any muscle mass, in fact you may lose it.

You will make gains, though moderate ones.

Increased calorific and protein intake is to maximise the growth potential.

You will make gains, though moderate ones.

Increased calorific and protein intake is to maximise the growth potential.

Maybe possible for a beginner to weight training, but in general if you are burning more calories than you eat you will not make any significant gains moderate or otherwise (without steroids). You need the extra (surplus) cals in the form of protein,carbs and fat for that. For this reason bodybuilders normally accept they will put on some fat while building muscle even though they calculate and monitor every calorie to minimise fat gain.

But if there is any credible research disproving this I would like to know about it!

Hey I just started doing deadlifts, benchpresses, squats and latpulldowns.
The thing is I don't really look to gain weight. (I do 5x5, once a week)
So my question is: can you actually get stronger doing weights, without gaining weight?

Only educated answers please...
PS: also read this thread http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233927 because no one has answered there so far :(



This is a boxing website. If you need advice about weightlifting, you should get it from an expert. There aren't many of those in this forum. As a boxer, weightlifting is unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Joe Louis didn't lift weights and he became one of the greatest heavyweights ever. Joe Calzaghe doesn't lift weights and he became one of the great super-middleweights ever. Obviously the need for boxers to pump iron is clearly overrated.

As a boxer, weightlifting is unnecessary and potentially dangerous.

You could saying that about running, heavy bagwork, shadowboxing whatever. You can be a boxer without any of these either. Maybe weight training might not help some boxers, and the most important thing is developing boxing skills.
But that doesnt mean it can´t be of any benefit to a boxer. Some boxers have a great physique for boxing and don´t need to do weights, but not everyone is genetically gifted like that, others will benefit from weight training whether to increase strength, increase muscle bulk, or to rehabilitate muscle after an injury, or to prevent injury.
There is hard evidence from sports scientists from research that shows how weight training can improve athletic performance. Sure it won't improve your boxing skills, but if it can improve your potential in even a small way why not try it?

This is a boxing website. If you need advice about weightlifting, you should get it from an expert. There aren't many of those in this forum. As a boxer, weightlifting is unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Joe Louis didn't lift weights and he became one of the greatest heavyweights ever. Joe Calzaghe doesn't lift weights and he became one of the great super-middleweights ever. Obviously the need for boxers to pump iron is clearly overrated.

I am getting it here because I obsviously want to lift weights FOR boxing.
As far as I'm concerned, PunchDrunk is and expert.

I honestly don't know if lifting weights has much use for boxing though. Alot of greats indeed don't or didn't use it. But lately it seems to get more popular among boxers and actually any athletes.
I think both PBF and RJJ do weights.

Almost ALL boxers I think do stuff like pullups, pullups, dips...
Why would doing push ups be beneficial if benchpressing isn't?
Benchpressing is an enhanced form of pushups if you ask me. Which allows you to have to do less reps with greater result.
I could be totally wrong though, and if I am, please tell me.

I am getting it here because I obsviously want to lift weights FOR boxing.
As far as I'm concerned, PunchDrunk is and expert.

I honestly don't know if lifting weights has much use for boxing though. Alot of greats indeed don't or didn't use it. But lately it seems to get more popular among boxers and actually any athletes.
I think both PBF and RJJ do weights.

Almost ALL boxers I think do stuff like pullups, pullups, dips...
Why would doing push ups be beneficial if benchpressing isn't?
Benchpressing is an enhanced form of pushups if you ask me. Which allows you to have to do less reps with greater result.
I could be totally wrong though, and if I am, please tell me.

You are right of course. The part in bold says a lot. Boxing is a sport, and boxers are athletes. Boxers have the same basic physiology as every other human being on the planet, and therefore they respond the same to any kind of physical training as anybody else. The right kind of weight training makes athletes in every other sport physically stronger, faster, and more explosive, and it'll work the same for boxing.

P.S. Arguing with Potatohead is useless, the guy's a fundamentalist (ie. unable to listen to arguments of any kind).

I am getting it here because I obsviously want to lift weights FOR boxing.
As far as I'm concerned, PunchDrunk is and expert.

I honestly don't know if lifting weights has much use for boxing though. Alot of greats indeed don't or didn't use it. But lately it seems to get more popular among boxers and actually any athletes.
I think both PBF and RJJ do weights.

Almost ALL boxers I think do stuff like pullups, pullups, dips...
Why would doing push ups be beneficial if benchpressing isn't?
Benchpressing is an enhanced form of pushups if you ask me. Which allows you to have to do less reps with greater result.
I could be totally wrong though, and if I am, please tell me.



There are lots of experts to give you advice, if you are willing to pay them. Advice that is given away free is very often not worth paying for.

When I was young nobody I knew did benchpresses, but everybody did pushups on their fingers and knuckles. I don't recall hand injuries being common when I was young. These days it seems like boxers are always injuring their hands. It is an interesting coincidence that young boxers today don't do pushups the way we did it back in the old days.

Stick to old fashioned boxing training. You will probably find it is cheaper, easier and healthier than the latest crackpot theory.

When I was young nobody I knew did benchpresses, but everybody did pushups on their fingers and knuckles. I don't recall hand injuries being common when I was young. These days it seems like boxers are always injuring their hands. It is an interesting coincidence that young boxers today don't do pushups the way we did it back in the old days..

How does doing push-ups on your fingers and knuckles prevent hand injury? there are no muscles in fingers themselves, and placing stress on the fingers can damage the joints,especially if the fingers are bent back - the fingers are not like other joints such as the elbow where the muscles surrounding the joint work as shock absorbers. If you want to build hand and grip strength you could do chin-ups, squeeze a tennis ball, squeeze you hand into a fist and open it again, use hand grips, or do forearm curls, deadlifts or rolling a piece of cord around a stick attached with weights!

So it is more like that a boxer who does finger or knuckle push-ups would be more likely to injure their hands due to the stress on the delicate bones in the hands, not prevent hand injuries!

or wait... this could just be another crackpot theory

This is a boxing website. If you need advice about weightlifting, you should get it from an expert. There aren't many of those in this forum. As a boxer, weightlifting is unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Joe Louis didn't lift weights and he became one of the greatest heavyweights ever. Joe Calzaghe doesn't lift weights and he became one of the great super-middleweights ever. Obviously the need for boxers to pump iron is clearly overrated.

i dunno man

punchdrunk knows his ****, and guys like kostya tszyu etc have all recommended weight training

i dont do actual weights but when im training i do lots of bodyweight stuff and also medicine ball work and stuff like sledgehammer and tyre, baseball bat and heavybag punching with dumb bells etc

definitely made me stronger, and the medicine ball **** made me quicker too

Talk about the pot(ato) calling the kettle black! :D

Talk about the pot(ato) calling the kettle black! :D

One paper I was reading a while ago talked about the need for doing strength training at the appropriate speed for the action. They found that the strength gains forged at the same speed as the training were maximised while at slower speeds the gains were reduced. However at a faster pace the gains were non-existant. So basically what i'm trying to point to here is the need for explosive movements such as dumbbell snatches and swings to gain the most benefit from strength training. Elastic bands are also a great way to train punch power and speed with a much less chances of injuring your joints.

Hey I just started doing deadlifts, benchpresses, squats and latpulldowns.
The thing is I don't really look to gain weight. (I do 5x5, once a week)
So my question is: can you actually get stronger doing weights, without gaining weight?

Only educated answers please...
PS: also read this thread http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233927 because no one has answered there so far :(

There are specific rep ranges for specific goals..

Strength: 1-5 reps
Strength/Hypertrophy:6-8 reps
Hypertrophy/Strength: 9-12 reps
Hypertrophy/Endurance:13-15 reps
Endurance: 16+ reps

Personally I keep my weights at 5 rep max weight doing 4 reps, when I can do 6 reps I increase the weigh till it drops down again.

There are specific rep ranges for specific goals..

Strength: 1-5 reps
Strength/Hypertrophy:6-8 reps
Hypertrophy/Strength: 9-12 reps
Hypertrophy/Endurance:13-15 reps
Endurance: 16+ reps

Personally I keep my weights at 5 rep max weight doing 4 reps, when I can do 6 reps I increase the weigh till it drops down again.

Thanks,
what about the reps with pullups?
I can easily do over 5 reps. How am I supposed to add weight?
And pushups... I currently do 5 sets of 8 reps clappushups... Should I do less reps and add weight somehow? :O Again; how do I add weight?
I don't have a weghted vest and those things aren't available around here either I'm afraid. And pushups with a weighted backpack will hurt I predict.

Thanks in advance.

One paper I was reading a while ago talked about the need for doing strength training at the appropriate speed for the action. They found that the strength gains forged at the same speed as the training were maximised while at slower speeds the gains were reduced. However at a faster pace the gains were non-existant. So basically what i'm trying to point to here is the need for explosive movements such as dumbbell snatches and swings to gain the most benefit from strength training. Elastic bands are also a great way to train punch power and speed with a much less chances of injuring your joints.

Sounds like a load of crap to me. What the **** does They found that the strength gains forged at the same speed as the training were maximised while at slower speeds the gains were reduced even mean? The reason I call BS on this is very simple: How much weight can ANYONE lift at the same speed as they can throw a punch, run a sprint, or do anything else they do in their sport? Do I need to answer that question for you? It's an idiotic claim, pure an simple.

Also, go out and look at a DB snatch or swing sometime. The movement itself is quite slow compared to an actual jump. the speed is not the same, at all.

Strength gains are strength gains. If you want to increase your speed, there are two parameters:
1. Technique, which is what you're working on constantly in your boxing specific workouts.
2. Physical potential for developing powerful (and therefore fast) contractions in your muscle. This potential is increased with greater strength. The reason I use the word potential is that you need to be able to convert this strength to your sport specific movement. You can use "transition" exercises, like med ball throws, plyometrics, etc. to maximise the development, but I'd contend that for boxing, doing the right weight training, and regular boxing skill work alone can increase your speed and power on its own.

Of course it will but if you want to get alot stronger, you will need to increase the weights simple as. For boxing, heavy weights do not give you power or strength, it is a myth. Boxers do plyometrics, calisthenics and/or light weights for conditioning as power is already there or not. I assume you are not a fighter which is why you do more weights, so I don't understand why it would bother you to put a bit of weight on and get alot more strenght!? Check out spartanhealth.com, where he explains how doing dips and pull ups with weight added on a dipping belt will get you more functional strenght than other weight training exercises. It makes you more ripped too. His program is well cheap and very informative.

Loving ya sig Rafael S! I do have to deliver on the promise I have shown and I will.

Sounds like a load of crap to me. What the **** does even mean? The reason I call BS on this is very simple: How much weight can ANYONE lift at the same speed as they can throw a punch, run a sprint, or do anything else they do in their sport? Do I need to answer that question for you? It's an idiotic claim, pure an simple.

Also, go out and look at a DB snatch or swing sometime. The movement itself is quite slow compared to an actual jump. the speed is not the same, at all.

Strength gains are strength gains. If you want to increase your speed, there are two parameters:
1. Technique, which is what you're working on constantly in your boxing specific workouts.
2. Physical potential for developing powerful (and therefore fast) contractions in your muscle. This potential is increased with greater strength. The reason I use the word potential is that you need to be able to convert this strength to your sport specific movement. You can use "transition" exercises, like med ball throws, plyometrics, etc. to maximise the development, but I'd contend that for boxing, doing the right weight training, and regular boxing skill work alone can increase your speed and power on its own.

I'll try find the article again, but I think I have only a few sections saved, it was pretty difficult to read but i'll look again tonight after training hopefully.

PS I wasn't saying it was law, just that boxers need to realise it is an explosive sport, so It's fruitless to work slowly against resistance, even when that resistance is supplied by body weight and gravity, and then expect to achieve major gains in strength at high speed.

Thanks,
what about the reps with pullups?
I can easily do over 5 reps. How am I supposed to add weight?
And pushups... I currently do 5 sets of 8 reps clappushups... Should I do less reps and add weight somehow? :O Again; how do I add weight?
I don't have a weghted vest and those things aren't available around here either I'm afraid. And pushups with a weighted backpack will hurt I predict.

Thanks in advance.

if you want to add significant resistance to your pushups, go one handed.

The first time I tried a one handed push up, it was a real eye opener. I could easily do over 100 normal pushups in one go, sometimes stopping out of boredom before i was even tired. so i thought that it was definitely time to step up to one handed pushups. i also thought that they would be able to do atleast 10 or so, first time around. wrong. i couldn't even do one.

so how do you build up your reps, if you cant even do one in the first place, and conventional pushups just aren't making you stronger?

the best way, in my opinion, is to do one handed pushups, with your feet on the ground, and your hand on a raised platform of some kind. thiis makes the exercise much easier, (once you've mastered one handed pushups, you can move on to doing them with your hand on the ground, and your feet raised, for extra difficulty). i used a foot stool, and just did a few reps whenever i had a moment during the day. after a few days i was able to do 2 or 3 reps without the aid of the footstool, so i ditched it.

i learned this technique from Pavel Tsatsouline. you should check out his articles about strength training, and body weight resistance.

also read online for proper form while performing the exercise.

for pullups pull yourself so high that the bat touches yout sternum. While pulling lean back so you are almost perpendicular to the floor when your sternum touches the bar. This are very hard and heavy.

Hey I just started doing deadlifts, benchpresses, squats and latpulldowns.
The thing is I don't really look to gain weight. (I do 5x5, once a week)
So my question is: can you actually get stronger doing weights, without gaining weight?

Only educated answers please...
PS: also read this thread http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233927 because no one has answered there so far :(

YES

over the last 6 months i've increased my strength quite a bit, whilst i've improved my physique by toning up, with very little or no gain in muscle mass. in fact, most people tell me that my muscles look smaller. but as i said, i'm considerably stronger. by doing 5x5 just like you, but much more often.