View Full Version : best boxing match of all time.


Dempsey
11-08-2004, 09:10 AM
the best boxing match i saw would be muhammed ali vs joe frazier for the 3rd time.

Prorock
11-08-2004, 01:15 PM
My opinion: Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman. Great fight! Great fighters!

Great
11-08-2004, 02:26 PM
Very difficult question.
But the nominee "Ali-Frezier - 3" probably is good.

tntkid
11-08-2004, 11:03 PM
Arturo Gatti - Micky Ward I

Prorock
11-09-2004, 01:36 AM
The best of the modern fights:

Ward-Gatti I
Morales-Barrera I

loangunZ
11-09-2004, 01:39 AM
ali-foreman
gatti-ward
toney-jirvo

THRILLAinmanila
11-09-2004, 01:42 AM
Yup, Ali-Frazier 3.

tino
11-09-2004, 05:34 AM
any of morrade hakkar fights , and maybe patrick charpentier last fight.

Prorock
11-09-2004, 12:40 PM
any of morrade hakkar fights
Hakkar? Sorry but his fight again Hopkins was very very BAD

stu
11-09-2004, 01:43 PM
I would go for Barrera v Morales I.

drag0n_
11-09-2004, 04:32 PM
For me it's gotta be the Rumble in the Jungle! Vintage

LeFtHooK24
11-09-2004, 05:31 PM
Ward vs Gatti 1&3,Barrera vs Morales 1,Quartey vs Delahoya,Meldric Taylor vs Chavez

BoxingPromoter
11-09-2004, 05:37 PM
My fav fights:

1)Ali-Foreman

2)Ali-Frasier

3)Ali-Berbick(just joking!)

4)Hearns-Hagler

5)Foreman-Holyfield

loangunZ
11-09-2004, 05:42 PM
Ward vs Gatti 1&3,Barrera vs Morales 1,Quartey vs Delahoya,Meldric Taylor vs Chavez
man the meldric taylor fight was a heartbreaker

wmute
11-13-2004, 01:44 AM
hagler-hearns
ali-frazier 3
barrera morales 1

... what else, dunno...

oldgringo
11-13-2004, 02:26 AM
Recent: Toney/Jirov, Morales/Barrera I

Older: Taylor/Chavez I, Hagler/Hearns

No-Mas
11-14-2004, 09:51 AM
RUIZ / GOLOTA -- better than Gatti/Ward, Hagler/Hearns, Foreman/Lyle... Don King should have charged $149.95 for this masterpiece of athletic competition

JOM'S
11-15-2004, 06:36 AM
Hagler-Hearns my favorite fight, even though I was rooting for the Hitman

I am a Great Ali Fan
Thrilla in Manila
Rumble in the Jungle

EM-MAB I
did not see the whole fight but if all rounds where like round 5, for sure I'll put it here

jayschre
11-15-2004, 08:08 PM
Ali-Frazier III
Barrera-Morales I
Taylor-Chavez
Foreman-Lyle
Ward-Gatti I

lsk
11-17-2004, 01:30 PM
Best modern Hw fight must be Holyfield vs Bowe

tony
11-18-2004, 09:18 AM
Frazier Vs Ali I. The only thing The Fight was missing after that monstrous left hook was the foot kissing that Ali promised Frazier if he lost. Especially after all the stuff he'd said about Joe...

The modern era is a toss up between Gatti/Ward I and Barrera/Morales I. I just can't between the two.

jack_the_rippuh
11-18-2004, 12:52 PM
Hakkar? Sorry but his fight again Hopkins was very very BAD

I disagree..that fight was a great fight...One of the greatest in Middleweight History...easily tops Hagler vs. Hearns..

KJ
11-20-2004, 10:33 AM
Hagler-Hearns must be the best fight.

KJ
11-20-2004, 01:21 PM
On second place gati-ward.

Ivansmamma
11-23-2004, 05:02 AM
All three Ali vs. Frazier fights were great. Ali vs. Foreman was great to. Leonard vs. Hearns was another great fight.

jayschre
11-24-2004, 03:55 AM
Just a heads up to any interested I saw that on Fri. November 26th HBO is showing Barrera vs. Morales I and II to lead up to their rematch on the 27th!!!!

So if anyone missed their first bout(war) it's a chance to see it.

plexmc
11-24-2004, 03:57 AM
the best boxing match i saw would be muhammed ali vs joe frazier for the 3rd time.
word up on that

THRILLAinmanila
11-24-2004, 04:04 AM
Please see my Custom Title.
Thrilla in Manila - Ali vs Frazier III
nuf said.

blackbelt2003
11-26-2004, 10:34 AM
What about the best pure boxing match?

Not for thrills, but for boxing ability on display?

Mosley-DLH I was a good example of this...the skills in that fight were absolutely marvellous.

Also Leonard-Hagler I. We didn't see the best of Hagler, but we saw cameo's of his relentless skills later on in the fight, and Leonard was superb.


Black

paulmmv
11-27-2004, 03:17 AM
Oscar De La Hoya vs Fernando Vargas

gogan
11-29-2004, 12:55 PM
rumble in the jungle

its a fight no one knew what was going to happen, the world was silent for 8 rounds because no one wanted to even blink. It was the strongest against the smartest. If foreman had won then it wouldn't have been half the fight it is now.

foremanfan
11-30-2004, 01:52 PM
Best heavyweight Holyfield-Bowe for me. Foreman-Lyle was cool also.
Middleweight Hagler-Hearns

plexmc
11-30-2004, 05:39 PM
I feel u on that

P@pasmurf
12-03-2004, 01:04 PM
as far as modern fights go, id take tito-vargas

gogan
12-14-2004, 09:58 PM
foreman lyle, AMAZING KNOCKOUT
foreman ali, AMAZING FIGHT

JaNnO
12-15-2004, 12:05 AM
foreman lyle, AMAZING KNOCKOUT
foreman ali, AMAZING FIGHT

thrilla in manila
leonard vs. hearns
duran vs. leonard
leonard vs. hearns
tito vs. dlh
mab vs morales 1
pac vs jmm

nadz
12-15-2004, 12:59 AM
thrilla in manila
leonard vs. hearns
duran vs. leonard
leonard vs. hearns
tito vs. dlh
mab vs morales 1
pac vs jmm
morales vs chi

Good List janno same as mine...

grayfist
12-15-2004, 03:54 AM
All three Ali-Frazier fights.

Those mentioned by Janno. But I'll add a few:

Leonard-WBenitez (anyone who loves boxing that matches wits as much as brawns would love that)

SSanchez- ANelson (the fight just simply shouted "rematch!" But the rematch didn't happen; Sanchez died two weeks after the bout in a car accident)

Leonard- Hearns

And for sheer violence all three Gatti-Ward fights!

For poitical drama as much as the quality:
the two Louis- Schmelling fights. ;) :)

KillerBlow
12-15-2004, 04:01 AM
Ali-Frazier 3

nadz
12-15-2004, 04:22 AM
Ali-Frazier 3
Morales vs Barrera 3

THRILLAinmanila
12-15-2004, 04:23 AM
Morales vs Barrera 3


Soon to be replaced by Pac-JMM 2 :D

nadz
12-15-2004, 04:26 AM
Soon to be replaced by Pac-JMM 2 :D
yes 100% agree and also candidate for FOY in 2005 :p

THRILLAinmanila
12-15-2004, 04:27 AM
yes 100% agree and also candidate for FOY in 2005 :p


hahaha. para tayong naglolokohan dito. hehehe. :D :p

nadz
12-15-2004, 04:30 AM
hahaha. para tayong naglolokohan dito. hehehe. :D :p
pag lipat ko sa kabila ikaw din yung latest doon p're kaya ikaw na re replayan ko.. :p

THRILLAinmanila
12-15-2004, 04:32 AM
pag lipat ko sa kabila ikaw din yung latest doon p're kaya ikaw na re replayan ko.. :p

ok let's go back to English. we don't want to disrespect the others . :D

nadz
12-15-2004, 04:32 AM
hey!!! Dude where's the alliance KKK(pa effect)?

nadz
12-15-2004, 04:34 AM
Soon to be replaced by Pac-JMM 2 :D
damn.... my friend look at your custom title, who did that to you?

nadz
12-15-2004, 04:36 AM
ah! ok i knew who is *****... :D

THRILLAinmanila
12-15-2004, 04:39 AM
ah! ok i knew who is *****... :D


I did it myself :) you like it ?? :D

nadz
12-15-2004, 04:41 AM
I did it myself :) you like it ?? :D

yap.. i like it !! that was the King of *****.,i think i want to do the same...

Xecutioner
12-16-2004, 11:51 PM
sugar ray leonard vs roberto duran I. two all time pfp fighters going toe to toe for 15 rounds.

SweetScience
12-17-2004, 01:34 AM
Hearns vs Hagler is overrated...once Hagler was going to touch Hearns, everyone knew it was over.

Rosario vs Ramirez II - Much better fight.

Tyson_Bit_Holyfields_Ear
12-19-2004, 02:00 AM
Dempsey V Willard.

.::|ULTIMATE|::.
12-19-2004, 06:27 AM
Once again,

Chavez vs Taylor.

These men went to war over 12 rounds, so much skill, heart, technique, smarts, power, agility, speed, and defense was exhibited in that fight.

Great
12-19-2004, 02:09 PM
Ali-Frazier-3
Leonard-Hearns-1...

amaru
12-20-2004, 03:42 PM
im goin with barrera vs morales 1 and gatti vs ward 1

slickhook
12-20-2004, 03:48 PM
Best fight Blow for Blow
Jorge Arce against Jaun Centeno

This was a war
Both men fighting and biting
and only one walked out the door

trephination
12-25-2004, 09:56 PM
Ali vs Frazier III
Barrera vs Morales

trephination
12-25-2004, 09:57 PM
Almost Forgot......
Foreman vs Lyle

hambone
12-28-2004, 04:54 PM
any of the ali frazier matches.
I think the klitschko vs. Lewis was a good slug match
Leonard vs.duran

tikal
01-05-2005, 06:10 PM
Ali vs Frazier
Tyson vs Holyfield
Dempsy vs Al Firpo

Mr. Ryan
01-05-2005, 06:11 PM
The best pure boxing match, with skill and all, was Leonard-Benitez.

Mr. Ryan
01-05-2005, 06:17 PM
My favorite fights of all time:

Barrera-Morales I
Trinidad-Vargas
Gatti-Ward III
Ali-Frazier III
Foreman-Lyle
Tua-Ibeabuchi

Johnny_Rocket
01-09-2005, 06:00 PM
Ali and Frazier 3, Gatti and Ward (all 3), and Tua and Ibeaubuci

Sidestep_1
01-09-2005, 08:50 PM
All the fights mentioned here are great. Another great fight (but not a meaningful...) was Ward vs. Augustus :eek: ! What do you guys think???

gustang1969
01-17-2005, 10:30 PM
oh man i love boxing but i gots to say the morales barrera fight and the gatti ward fights are the best i have ever seen but is it that people love these matches cuz it was a brawl how was technical boxing like the boxing lesson that de la hoya gave trinidad or also when hopkins took trinidad to school also but i thought the vargas and trinidad fight was a good match but never anywhere near other matches alright

Bombardier
01-28-2005, 12:14 PM
Hagler - Hearns is maybe the fight I've watched the most...so much action in 3 rounds it's incredible. Ali - Frazier II is still the fight that otehrs are measured against, however.

SonnyJ
01-29-2005, 09:04 AM
ali-frazier 3. i also like all tszyu fights

jayrichardse
01-30-2005, 11:54 PM
i dont know

lmnorw
02-25-2005, 03:38 PM
if you really want to see a great match up watch lyle vs foreman..foreman was knocked down 4 times in his career and 2 of them came in one round from lyle.imagine micky ward and gatti if they were heavyweights and imagine if gatti had a granite chin but was still put down..a all time great fight so check it out if you love boxing

marvelous_TG
02-26-2005, 01:57 PM
vargas vs trinidad
hagler vs hearns

chase
02-26-2005, 02:43 PM
roberto duran vs davey moore, that was a fight, duran showed why he was in my mind the best fighter who ever lived

hellfire508
03-02-2005, 12:01 AM
Okay i dont have a favourite...but here a my favouriteS.
Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 1
Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 3
Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman
Anturo Gatti vs Micky Ward 1
Marco Antonio Barrera vs Erik Morales 1
Marvin Hagler vs Thomas Hearns

holyfield - bowe was great also.

hellfire508
03-02-2005, 12:03 AM
I also LOVED the delahoya vs vargas fight...not so much for the fight itself...but i loved seeing oscar whoop vargas after that low point in his career....the emotion was extreme!

dilivio2005
03-02-2005, 11:54 AM
1. Hagler v Hearns
2. Gatti v Ward I
3. Barrera v Morales I

m00ks
03-02-2005, 11:57 AM
chavez taylor -has everything you want in a match
gatti-ward - anyof em, the first was brutal
hagler-hearns - speaks for it self
barrera-morales -same

xrhythmxnxbluesx
03-02-2005, 12:44 PM
hagler hearns (best first round ever)
gatti ward 1 (watch that fight every week)
hopkins trinidad (i dun like tito and is hopkins best fight)
chavez taylor (good fight with a controversial win)

puppy_dogg
03-02-2005, 12:54 PM
DLH-quartey
hamed-kelly
mclellan-benn

jones-tarver 1(for the suspense)(im gonna get thrashed for this one but let me explain)i remember the electricity in the last three rounds of that fight were intense, especialy when jones started to come on. even the entire arena who had booed the whole night were going crazy at the end. its not exciting now cause we know what happens but it was awesome live.

masha
03-02-2005, 01:41 PM
1. Hagler v Hearns
2. Gatti v Ward I
3. Hamed vs Badillo

delroy02
03-02-2005, 06:21 PM
Nigel Benn V Gerald Mclellan is my own personel favorite. Shame what happend to G-Man after that fight.

That fight was brutal, I still can't believe Benn came back to win that fight.

kapersky
03-10-2005, 01:13 AM
ali vs frazi 3

tommo
03-10-2005, 01:39 AM
I think Benn mcCleland is a bit special for me.its almost a typical example of how the fight game goes, the loser pays the ultimate price.

Pinoy_Texan
03-10-2005, 12:04 PM
Hagler vs. Hearns
Duran vs. Leonard I

Arfan
03-10-2005, 05:06 PM
Ali-Frazier 3 definatly

.::EnRiQuE::.
03-10-2005, 07:32 PM
ali-frazier 3
hagler-hearns
hamed-kelly(mad Knockdowns->krazy)
gatti-ward 1

adeelr
03-10-2005, 10:01 PM
Gatti - Ward was great,

Sinatra.Jr
03-11-2005, 04:32 AM
I thought Chaves vs. Tayler 1.

Sinatra.Jr
03-11-2005, 04:54 AM
also Big George vs. Holyfield was so greatest one I think.
I can't choose which was the most greatest fight.

.::EnRiQuE::.
03-11-2005, 05:48 PM
All the fights mentioned here are great. Another great fight (but not a meaningful...) was Ward vs. Augustus :eek: ! What do you guys think???
awesome fight. prolly one of my favorites. a war for free on friday night fights. ward put augustus down late with a body shot. they threw like 1000000000000000 combined punches that fight :boxing: :eek:

OliverNo1
03-11-2005, 05:54 PM
Hagler v Hearns
Hagler v Mugabi

Ltd viewing knowledge here in the uk tho- due to very little boxing on satelite.

XionComrade
03-11-2005, 06:06 PM
I want to see Foreman-Lyle, My dad was telling me about it, it sounded unreal, any of you guys have it?

Modern I have Cruz-Arnaoutis, Mitchell-Tszyu, Lewis-Tyson, Tyson-Holyfeild
I really need to see some of the older fights :(

Sinatra.Jr
03-12-2005, 12:40 PM
'70-Foreman vs All
'80-Leonard vs Hearns 1
'90-Chavez vs Teylor 1
'00-Gatti vs Ward 1

Sinatra.Jr
03-12-2005, 12:43 PM
in all the best bout is Foreman vs All.

MotorCityCobra
03-12-2005, 10:54 PM
*Hearns-Hagler
*Leonard-Hearns I
*Foreman-Lyle
*Carbajal-Gonzalez I
*Pryor-Arguello I
*Saad Muhammad-Yaqui Lopez II
*Ward-Gatti I
*Barerra-Morales I
*Ali-Frazier III
*WGomez-LPintor

Prospekt
03-16-2005, 09:23 AM
Ward vs Gatti was the best lightweight fight of all time i think it was non stop punching until the end of the 12th.

Verbl_Kint
03-18-2005, 02:09 PM
Best heavyweight fight imho:

Ali-Frazier 3 (the Thrilla)

MexicanBoxer
03-24-2005, 02:40 AM
morales vs mab 1
foremna vs lyle(round 4 is the greatest round i have ever seen unreaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal)and i have seen round 10 of bowe vs holyfield,round 5 mab vs morales 1, round 9 of ward vs gatti 1.
I HAVE NOTICED THAT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ONE HAS PUR AARON PRYOR VS Arguello 1 unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chazz2
03-24-2005, 04:21 PM
the best boxing match i saw would be muhammed ali vs joe frazier for the 3rd time.
Although I agree those are good fights I have to say the three gatti vs ward are my favorites. Non stop action!

boxerman
03-24-2005, 09:06 PM
For me...well first of all i admit I am from Atlanta and Holyfield is one of my fav fighters. That being said, I think the first Tyson/ HOlyfield fight was awesome. From my perspective anyway. Tyson still had some of that invincibility thing goin on and people were writing holyfield off even then. To see Holy stand in there and take Tysons shots and give him two punches for Tysons one; then see him knock him out was, for me my favorite fight moment.

The others mentioned were probably better, but I didnt have the emotional attachment to them as i did this one.

bigrealmike
04-02-2005, 05:18 AM
Foreman-Lyle was cool also.

Great slugfest, indeed.Still one of the most intense heavyweight
battles of the past 30 years.

nadz
04-02-2005, 05:29 AM
Thrilla in manila
Morales - Barrera 3
Morales - Pacman

USA4LIFE
04-03-2005, 05:45 AM
Gatti-Ward I
Pryor-Argueo I
Morales-Barrera I
Chavez-Taylor I
Paquiao-Marquez
DLH-Quartey (i think thats how you spell it)
Ali-Frazier III
Hagler-Hearns
Leonard-Hearns
Leonard-Hagler
Holmes-Cooney
Ali-Foreman
Barrera-Prince Naseem

not in any order

EvilMark
04-03-2005, 09:26 AM
hagler vs hearns
Sanchez vs Gomez
Gomez vs pintor
Trinidad vs vargas
De La Hoya Vs Mosley 1

franker01
04-08-2005, 11:08 PM
Honorable Mention:

Quarry-Frazier
Vinson-Robles
Saad Muhammad-Lopez

random guy
04-09-2005, 02:40 AM
what about
lenard vs duran 1 and 2 ;)

Komandos
04-09-2005, 09:08 AM
Ali vs Frazier
V.Klichko vs L.Lewis
Roj Jones Jr vs Ruiz

XionComrade
04-18-2005, 07:24 PM
Foreman, Lyle Pwned

adeelr
04-18-2005, 09:00 PM
Ward v. Gatti, MOrales v. Barrera, Ali v. Frazier, Ali vs. Foreman

RwK
04-18-2005, 11:59 PM
Best modern Hw fight must be Holyfield vs Bowe

I second that. Except, I think it is one of the greatest fights of all time.

Best I have ever watched would be Adams V.S. Ayala 1

Tapia V.S. Romero a close second.

NiGe2011
04-19-2005, 02:19 AM
Zab Judah vs Wayne Martell

Cambria
04-25-2005, 02:50 PM
Ali vs Fraz the 1st time

Mattalicious 324
04-28-2005, 11:47 PM
Gatti - Ward

BReal72
04-30-2005, 07:11 AM
Marco Antonio Barrera v Kennedy McKinney I think it was from the LA forum nine years ago. It was an excellent fight filled with action and knock downs.

TheBrownBomber22
04-30-2005, 07:35 AM
I loved all the Barrera v Morrales fights!!!

jmctheone
05-06-2005, 05:26 PM
Ali V fraizer 1 & 3
Barrera V morales 1
hagler v hearns
robinson v lamotta 6
sanchez vs gomez
duran v leonard 1
arguello v pryor 1

tnom
05-12-2005, 12:17 AM
I'm a huge Ali fan, but none of his fights rank in my top 3:

Hagler-Hearns
Duran-Leonard (the first one)
last week's Corrales-Castillo squeaks into the top 3
hon. mention to Gatti-Ward 1

AIR_KENG
05-12-2005, 01:36 AM
IMO, gatti-ward 1 is still the best of all time...

Subwayboy
05-12-2005, 03:06 AM
has to be the Thrilla, or the Rumble
followed by Hearns - Hagler if only it lasted 3 more rounds then that fight would be the greatest of all time. And both boxers would be dead.

kdr
05-17-2005, 09:19 PM
the best match for me is :
Pacquiao Vs J.M.Marquez
and
Morales-Barrera I

partee
05-27-2005, 03:46 PM
You almost have to list a top 3 to 5
How about putting Tyson-Holyfield I there?

BRONXBULL
05-31-2005, 12:37 AM
Lamotta VS. Laurent Dauthuille

By far the greastest comeback ever

dsh2005
06-07-2005, 01:59 PM
Gatti Ward 1

sonofisis
06-08-2005, 12:31 AM
honestly, Castillo vs. Coralles was the single greatest and satisfying fight that i've ever seen in my life..

Sir Fancylot
06-08-2005, 08:26 AM
Ali-Frazier 3
Eubank-Collins 1
Hagler-Hearns

Shaolin Bushido
06-08-2005, 10:15 AM
I actually liked Muhammad Ali/Frazier I best.

devils03
06-08-2005, 02:38 PM
Gatti Vs Ward 1

luisillo22
06-08-2005, 05:21 PM
Best fights ever, Erik Morales vs. Manny Pacquiao, Morales vs. Barrera I

Benoit Gaudet
06-08-2005, 10:44 PM
ken norton vs larry holmes
castillo vs corrales
toney vs jirov
hopkins vs trinidad (just cause hopkins fought a flawless fight)

Sir Fancylot
06-09-2005, 07:35 AM
Whenever Lamotta fought sugar ray it was an awesome fight.

ricecrispi
06-09-2005, 05:46 PM
Where do you start.
Ali Frazier III
Vander Bowe I
Morrales Barrera I
Eubanks Benn
Benn McClellan
Hearns Hagler
DLH vs Mosley

ARGUELLO vs Pryor I and II have my vote.

roberson2u
06-10-2005, 02:53 AM
Barrera Morales 1
Corrales Castillo
Gatti Ward 1

for recent ones

Slipx
06-24-2005, 06:23 AM
7 legendary bouts off the top of my head are..

chavez-taylor I
ali-foreman
hamed-kelly
benn-mcclellan
corrales-castillo
hagler-hearns
holmes-norton

dmar
06-27-2005, 07:44 PM
too many to pick from..hagler-hearns holmes-norton..dempsey-firpo..zale-graziano etc etc and a few hundred more no doubt

Thoth
06-30-2005, 02:05 AM
roberto duran vs davey moore, that was a fight, duran showed why he was in my mind the best fighter who ever lived

Duran vs. Barkley was better. How old was he 37? Took a hell of a beating in that fight too but Duran just kept on coming. Also the combo Barkley took from Duran before he tumbled, in the 11th, was stunning. I don't claim to be a boxing expert, but that **** was 'excellently executed'

Thoth
06-30-2005, 02:11 AM
I just got my hands on a sweet DVD selection of every Ring Magazine Fight of the Year for the 80's. Some truly great stuff in there that helped to re-shape my 'Favorite Match" list. Anywho:

MAB vs. Morales 1
Duran vs. Barkley
Gatti vs. Ward 1
Ali vs. Frazier 1
Duran vs. Leonard 1

Bobby Chacon's two F'sOTY in '82 and '83 were pretty crazy as well. Anyone who likes scrappy mexicans beating the **** out of each other should check em out. Oh and one big black fella.

BLKPANTHER
07-13-2005, 12:37 AM
Hagler-vs-hearns
Morrales-vs-barrera I And Ii
Gatti -vs- Ward

czars_salad
07-13-2005, 12:41 AM
Corrales - Castillo

Naf Said!

anwaryussuf81
07-13-2005, 08:13 PM
Best boxing match is pretty hard to say which one is. But Ali has to be in the best top 3 boxing matches of all time.

Skydog
07-15-2005, 11:03 PM
Thrilla In Minilla without a doubt. Ali and Frazier took one hell of a beating that night, especially Frazier. Those last 2 rounds sum up the heart and toughness of Smokin' Joe Frazier. Thank god they called the match then, because I don't think we would be seeing Joe Frazier if it went on.

mabfan#1
07-20-2005, 04:14 PM
Modern Fights:

Marquez/Pacquiao!!! :boxing:

Barrera Moralez 1!!! :boxing:

Gatti/Ward 1!!! :boxing:

Ali_is_the_greatest17
07-28-2005, 02:09 AM
The two matches that are my most favorite is Ali vs. foreman and Ali vs. Frazier....but if I gotta choose one, Ill have to go with Ali and frazier in the Thrilla in Manilla..

rocco1252
07-28-2005, 04:53 PM
Ali vs Frazier 1
Gatti vs Ward 1

TheEvilSaint
07-29-2005, 08:23 AM
Marvin Hagler vs. Thomas Hearns

Winner: Hagler by TKO3

Fight of the Year.

'nuff said.

Verstyle
10-04-2005, 12:12 AM
tyson vs. tony tucker

moes
10-04-2005, 12:18 AM
for me :castillo vs corrales,morales barrera 1,2,3, morales vs hernandez

robbase
10-15-2005, 12:05 AM
Prior-Arguello in a tie with Ali Frazier 3

rsl
10-15-2005, 01:49 AM
boza edwards vs. bobby chacon

snap the jab
10-15-2005, 02:16 PM
Chavez - Taylor, not necessarily for the outcome and definitely not for what it might have done to Meldrick Taylor, but just to see two of the most amazingly-skilled boxers ever doing battle for 12 rounds.

Chavez's defense and countering, and Taylor's offensive skill - it's just beautiful to watch.

ToiBoi
10-24-2005, 12:53 AM
1 - Foreman v. Ron Lyle
2 - Matthew Saad Muhamid v. Gus Johnson
Great fights!

Dempsey 1919
10-25-2005, 01:48 PM
It's hard to say. Many people would say Ali-Frazier III, however I have that as number two on my list. Number one is actually Ali-Frazier I, although most people would not say this because Ali actually lost that fight. However, both fighters were in way better shape in that fight than their last. Up to the final round the fight was even, until Ali went down for the third time in his career. That fight was truly the best!

ucbc0
02-18-2006, 10:41 AM
In Order:

Pryor vs. Arguello I
Gatti vs. Ward I
Ali vs. Frazier III
Hagler vs. Hearns
Chavez vs. Taylor
Duran vs. Barkley
Bowe vs. Hollyfield

Southpaw Stinger
02-18-2006, 10:46 AM
Thrilla In Manila. Gotta love it!

Dempsey 1919
02-18-2006, 01:12 PM
Thrilla In Manila. Gotta love it!

i think their first fight was better.

Southpaw Stinger
02-18-2006, 01:15 PM
i think their first fight was better.

That was great too but Thrilla in Manila has a more catchy name! lol

Dempsey 1919
02-18-2006, 01:20 PM
That was great too but Thrilla in Manila has a more catchy name! lol

yeah, true dat.

supaduck
02-18-2006, 02:38 PM
Easily Hagler vs. Hearns

McClellan vs. Benn is number 2.

Southpaw Stinger
02-18-2006, 02:44 PM
Easily Hagler vs. Hearns

Too short. The first round is the greatest round but aside from that it's a short match.

Two Fisted Piston
02-18-2006, 06:25 PM
Arturo Gatti - Micky Ward I

Sooooo true

LondonRingRules
02-18-2006, 07:29 PM
Ali's Frazier 3 and Foreman fights were too lopsided. Ali took a beatings and then won on his stool after telling Dundee he was quitting or scored a quick knockdown with seconds left in the round that Foreman arguably beat the count on.

Ad Wolgast and Battling Nelson engaged in a knockdown, drag out donnybrook that lasted 40 rds before Wolgast finally starched him. Go review another fine fight, Pryor/Arguello 1 which lasted 14 and then add on an extra 26 rounds of that kind of action and you get the picture.

MickyHatton
02-19-2006, 11:26 AM
Ali - Frazer 3 no doubt.

Southpaw Stinger
02-19-2006, 12:06 PM
Ali's Frazier 3 and Foreman fights were too lopsided. Ali took a beatings and then won on his stool after telling Dundee he was quitting or scored a quick knockdown with seconds left in the round that Foreman arguably beat the count on.


Ali landed the clearer sjots in manila and it was frazier who was in a bad state. Ali considered quitting but he said that in many of his fights. He never did though and always answered the bell.

And Foreman didn't beat the count. The commentator picked up the count at 3, but the ref was already further there and the ref got to 10. Whether Foreman beat the count or not it was obvious that he ws a beaten fighter both mentally and physically.

LondonRingRules
02-19-2006, 07:47 PM
Ali landed the clearer sjots in manila and it was frazier who was in a bad state. Ali considered quitting but he said that in many of his fights. He never did though and always answered the bell.

And Foreman didn't beat the count. The commentator picked up the count at 3, but the ref was already further there and the ref got to 10. Whether Foreman beat the count or not it was obvious that he ws a beaten fighter both mentally and physically.
** Foreman was a beaten fighter? Foreman went 36-4 after that fight, winning another title at age 45 and fighting until he was almost 50.

Ali went 11-3 after that fight, and at age 45 started to require assistance to take care of his daily needs.

Now, tell me again who was beat up in that fight?

Brockton Lip
02-19-2006, 08:20 PM
Now, tell me again who was beat up in that fight?

George Foreman.

Southpaw Stinger
02-19-2006, 10:01 PM
** Foreman was a beaten fighter? Foreman went 36-4 after that fight, winning another title at age 45 and fighting until he was almost 50.

Ali went 11-3 after that fight, and at age 45 started to require assistance to take care of his daily needs.

The Foreman that came back after losing to Ali was a different fighter. He was less aggressive and had lost his all out brawl style. Thats why he lost against guys like Jimmy Young and went down in slugfests with Ron Lyle.

Foreman must have been mentally damaged because he ended up becoming a priest who selled grills....

LondonRingRules
02-20-2006, 04:28 AM
The Foreman that came back after losing to Ali was a different fighter. He was less aggressive and had lost his all out brawl style. Thats why he lost against guys like Jimmy Young and went down in slugfests with Ron Lyle.

Foreman must have been mentally damaged because he ended up becoming a priest who selled grills....
** The only mental damage I see is you thinking that Foreman being arguably the richest man and the happiest in boxing is somehow deficient.

All I know is Ali was incredibly tough during his comeback, but was uglier than John Ruiz in his ropa dope style where he played a punching bag. The shriners may award him incredibly ugly points victories plus a few lucky victories in fights he wanted to quit in, but I really can't think of any fight that was actually great except for the first Frazier fight. The Norton fights were very competitive, and many think Norton won all of those bouts. Now, the final seconds of the Foreman bout could be argued as being great, especially given the minor controversy that Foreman may have been given a quick count and never could secure a rematch in spite of King holding contracts on both men.

In short, I could name dozens of bouts that were greater than Frazier 3, which ended with both men on their stools and Joe forever protesting the stoppage while Ali got up and collapsed.

Heckler
02-21-2006, 08:25 AM
Ali's Frazier 3 and Foreman fights were too lopsided. Ali took a beatings and then won on his stool after telling Dundee he was quitting or scored a quick knockdown with seconds left in the round that Foreman arguably beat the count on.

Ad Wolgast and Battling Nelson engaged in a knockdown, drag out donnybrook that lasted 40 rds before Wolgast finally starched him. Go review another fine fight, Pryor/Arguello 1 which lasted 14 and then add on an extra 26 rounds of that kind of action and you get the picture.

Your a ****en joke, you have no credibility whatsoever. Ali was in relatively good shape and was dominating at this stage. He had never quit before hand so why should we believe he was going to quit with one round left, clearly ahead on points, against Frazier whom was blind and in the previous round barely landed a punch, in the previous round and was nearly knocked out.. In round 14 Ali threw alot of punches and was moving quite fluidly, he looked exhausted... but not to the extent where he couldn't come out of his corner. Ali could of sat on the ropes, or merely walked around the ring with his hands up and finished the fight... frazier was in appalling condition. Foreman didn't beat the count, and if he did he would of been knocked out in the next round. Everything you say is fuelled by your Ali-hating agenda.

Heckler
02-21-2006, 08:27 AM
** The only mental damage I see is you thinking that Foreman being arguably the richest man and the happiest in boxing is somehow deficient.

All I know is Ali was incredibly tough during his comeback, but was uglier than John Ruiz in his ropa dope style where he played a punching bag. The shriners may award him incredibly ugly points victories plus a few lucky victories in fights he wanted to quit in, but I really can't think of any fight that was actually great except for the first Frazier fight. The Norton fights were very competitive, and many think Norton won all of those bouts. Now, the final seconds of the Foreman bout could be argued as being great, especially given the minor controversy that Foreman may have been given a quick count and never could secure a rematch in spite of King holding contracts on both men.

In short, I could name dozens of bouts that were greater than Frazier 3, which ended with both men on their stools and Joe forever protesting the stoppage while Ali got up and collapsed.

Got up and collapsed? he got up, raised his hands and walked around. He may have been assisted out of the ring but the fight was over and there was no need for him to use any more energy. Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous.

Heckler
02-21-2006, 08:28 AM
Secure a contract when? in 76? when Ali was a totally shot fighter, and Foreman was a mental wreck?

Frazier's 15th round
02-21-2006, 03:06 PM
Your a ****en joke, you have no credibility whatsoever. Ali was in relatively good shape and was dominating at this stage. He had never quit before hand so why should we believe he was going to quit with one round left, clearly ahead on points, against Frazier whom was blind and in the previous round barely landed a punch, in the previous round and was nearly knocked out.. In round 14 Ali threw alot of punches and was moving quite fluidly, he looked exhausted... but not to the extent where he couldn't come out of his corner. Ali could of sat on the ropes, or merely walked around the ring with his hands up and finished the fight... frazier was in appalling condition. Foreman didn't beat the count, and if he did he would of been knocked out in the next round. Everything you say is fuelled by your Ali-hating agenda.

There have been many sources that said Ali did want to quit. I even heard that there was someone in Ali's corner who was trying to make it over to Frazier's to inform Futch that Ali was quitting. But Futch called it off before he could get there. Ali was in horrible condition, and you can just see it in his eyes watching the fight.

Got up and collapsed? he got up, raised his hands and walked around.

No, he raised his arms as he stood up, and as soon as he was on his feet he turned back around to try and sit down. The camera cuts over to Frazier, and then back as you hear a loud thump, and can see Ali's feet as he's laying on the ground in the ring. His trainer's yank him up onto a stool.

RAESAAD
02-21-2006, 03:12 PM
Gatti/Ward I
Corrales/Castillo I
Hell for that matter Cotto/Torres was very exciting last year.


Hagler/Hearns
Ali/Frazier I was better than III IMO.

Heckler
02-22-2006, 06:10 AM
There have been many sources that said Ali did want to quit. I even heard that there was someone in Ali's corner who was trying to make it over to Frazier's to inform Futch that Ali was quitting. But Futch called it off before he could get there. Ali was in horrible condition, and you can just see it in his eyes watching the fight.



No, he raised his arms as he stood up, and as soon as he was on his feet he turned back around to try and sit down. The camera cuts over to Frazier, and then back as you hear a loud thump, and can see Ali's feet as he's laying on the ground in the ring. His trainer's yank him up onto a stool.

What a load of tinfoil hat wearing bull****. Ali contemplated quitting in the 10th round, keyword CONTEMPLATED. Ali throughout his career contemplated quitting but never did... So why should we believe, of all times he could of quit... that he would in this situation when he had performed so well, and shown good energy in the previous round, was ahead of points, and had nearly knocked Frazier out in the previous round. Oh so someone was going to tell Futch about Ali quitting but futch conveniently stopped it first ''i even heard someone...' People hear alot of ****, thats meaningless. What Ali does when the fight finishes is irrelevant, he knows he no longer has to fight, no longer has to utlise his willpower and determination and slumps in the corner... big deal. I disagree with the suggestion that Ali was incapable, or would of refused to go with Frazier another 3 minutes when Frazier couldn't see let alone make contact with his punches... Ali was very active in round 14, and i dont believe that someone so active in the previous round immediately becomes incapable of fighting. Ali's career history suggests that i am right. In my eyes your posts have no credibility ever since you used Ali being beaten by holmes in a debate, but for once put your Ali hating **** aside and look at the facts.

LondonRingRules
02-22-2006, 06:17 AM
Got up and collapsed? he got up, raised his hands and walked around. He may have been assisted out of the ring but the fight was over and there was no need for him to use any more energy. Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous.
** Obviously you never watched the fight. That Ali took one step off his stool and collapsed is incontestable. He toughed it out for 14, but it was Ali who wanted to quit, not Joe. Big difference in the trainers in this bout. Dundee wouldn't acknowledge Ali, and Futch pulled the plug on Frazier. The trainers decided the bouts, but the fighters had already decided the bout, it just wasn't official.

LondonRingRules
02-22-2006, 06:23 AM
Secure a contract when? in 76? when Ali was a totally shot fighter, and Foreman was a mental wreck?
** This is a boxing forum. The butterfly forum is down the way. Go.

In 76 Ali was shot, but he was also the undisputed heavyweight champ securing gifts from judges and refs until they could no longer ignore his condition when a LH amateur whooped him around the ring in 78. Foreman was 5-0, 5 KO in his post Ali comeback in 76, destroying 2 fighters who handed out major beatings to Ali in title fights, Wepner/Frazier.

Now, I hear they talk about really pretty butterflys down the way, so GIT!

Heckler
02-22-2006, 06:29 AM
** Obviously you never watched the fight. That Ali took one step off his stool and collapsed is incontestable. He toughed it out for 14, but it was Ali who wanted to quit, not Joe. Big difference in the trainers in this bout. Dundee wouldn't acknowledge Ali, and Futch pulled the plug on Frazier. The trainers decided the bouts, but the fighters had already decided the bout, it just wasn't official.

Ali didn't collpase immediately after he stepped off his stool, ive watched all 15 rounds and what followed. Ali stood up, raised his hands, then slumped... but is that relevant? did he need to walk under his own power any longer? NO. The fighter has the final say, if he doesn't want to go into that ring... he doesn't have to and Ali has never failed to answer the bell. There is no evidence of Ali quitting after round 14 merely a contemplation of him quitting in round 10, not only is there a lack of evidence there is a lack of LOGIC to your argument. Showed alot of activity the round before, winning comfortably on points and his career history and personal characteristics point to the contrary of what you are saying. It is merely another thing people such as yourself, and fraziers 15th round use to take a dig at Ali. Angelo did not control Ali, if Ali really did not want to fight he could quite easily wave the match off himself... dundee was always there with bundini to motivate him and get inside his head, but at the end of the day it was Ali's choice, it is the FIGHTERS choice.

Heckler
02-22-2006, 06:35 AM
Just watched the end rounds again, Ali gets up off his stool, raises his hands, then turns around towards the crowd... then trainers and personel embrace him... he collapsed immediately after stepping off his stool? your a joke. You would have some credibility if Ali was throwing no punches in round 14... but Ali was quite active, looked solid, and was throwing alot of punches.. at the end of the round he walks casually to his corner and slumps, looking exhausted like frazier but by no means to the extent where he cannot fight another 3 minute round. So maybe its you that needs to watch the WHOLE fight. And as for the hearing a noise after the fight fraziers15thround, sorry i haven't heard that yet... again more speculation.

Heckler
02-22-2006, 06:39 AM
** This is a boxing forum. The butterfly forum is down the way. Go.

In 76 Ali was shot, but he was also the undisputed heavyweight champ securing gifts from judges and refs until they could no longer ignore his condition when a LH amateur whooped him around the ring in 78. Foreman was 5-0, 5 KO in his post Ali comeback in 76, destroying 2 fighters who handed out major beatings to Ali in title fights, Wepner/Frazier.

Now, I hear they talk about really pretty butterflys down the way, so GIT!

Wepner gave Ali a beating... WHAT A ****EN JOKE... in wepners own words, from Ali: through the eyes of the world.. 'i hit him with a poor shot and Ali was offbalance, He got up, and he looked pissed' Then Foreman went on to nearly get Ko'd by an average fighter by the name of Ron Lyle and got beatin by young. That version of Foreman was a mere shadow of his previous self.

xzworks
02-22-2006, 07:56 AM
arce vs. hussein 1 ....

Frazier's 15th round
02-22-2006, 10:59 AM
In my eyes your posts have no credibility ever since you used Ali being beaten by holmes in a debate, but for once put your Ali hating **** aside and look at the facts.

Holmes whooped Ali. That's a fact. I don't hate Ali as a boxer. I hate the way he acted and the way he treated fighters, but I give him credit as a great champion. But Holmes would have beat him head-to-head, this is well known.

Southpaw Stinger
02-22-2006, 11:07 AM
Holmes wouldn't have a chance against a prime Ali. It is only somthing discussed by Ali haters.

Ali's attitude was the best thing about him and secretly Ali and Frazier were friends. A lot of their bantering was an act for the media.

Ali was old, slow, overweight, had parkinsons, and was taking Thyroid pills which sapped his strength when he fought Holmes. Yet he still lasted 11 rounds and never gave in, Holmes didn't last very long with a prime Tyson and that version of Holmes was in better condition than Ali was.

Holmes didn't fight anyone in the league of Ali's opponents.

Ali, Frazier and Foreman are my 3 favourite boxers and I like them all and don't try to bring them down. You should stop your biased oppinons.

Too Short
02-22-2006, 11:11 AM
the best match i've ever seen live was Morales/Berrera 1 followed by the first Gatti/Ward the first Gatti/Robinson, Corrales/Castillo and Berrera/McKenney.

all-time the Thrila in Manilla is good every time you watch it

LondonRingRules
02-22-2006, 04:27 PM
Ali didn't collpase immediately after he stepped off his stool, ive watched all 15 rounds and what followed. Ali stood up, raised his hands, then slumped... but is that relevant? did he need to walk under his own power any longer? NO. The fighter has the final say, if he doesn't want to go into that ring... he doesn't have to and Ali has never failed to answer the bell. There is no evidence of Ali quitting after round 14 merely a contemplation of him quitting in round 10, not only is there a lack of evidence there is a lack of LOGIC to your argument. Showed alot of activity the round before, winning comfortably on points and his career history and personal characteristics point to the contrary of what you are saying. It is merely another thing people such as yourself, and fraziers 15th round use to take a dig at Ali. Angelo did not control Ali, if Ali really did not want to fight he could quite easily wave the match off himself... dundee was always there with bundini to motivate him and get inside his head, but at the end of the day it was Ali's choice, it is the FIGHTERS choice.
** That's what I said, he collapsed immediately off his stool. Do try to keep up and stop disagreeing while agreeing with me.

Ali told Dundee he couldn't continue after the 14th. This is eyewitness acount. Moreover, Frazier had a man in Ali's corner who heard it and was trying to get back to Frazier's corner when Futch pulled the plug. Frazier knows this and is immensely bitter to this day over this fight that he knows and Ali knows that Frazier won their personal battle regardless of what the official cards show.

Dempsey 1919
02-22-2006, 04:34 PM
** That's what I said, he collapsed immediately off his stool. Do try to keep up and stop disagreeing while agreeing with me.

Ali told Dundee he couldn't continue after the 14th. This is eyewitness acount. Moreover, Frazier had a man in Ali's corner who heard it and was trying to get back to Frazier's corner when Futch pulled the plug. Frazier knows this and is immensely bitter to this day over this fight that he knows and Ali knows that Frazier won their personal battle regardless of what the official cards show.

al won the third fight fair and square. all ali had to do was throw 5 or 6 punches in the 15th, cause frazier couldn't see anyway. :cool:

leff
02-22-2006, 04:53 PM
al won the third fight fair and square. all ali had to do was throw 5 or 6 punches in the 15th, cause frazier couldn't see anyway. :cool:

how was he supposed to box whan he collapsed?

Southpaw Stinger
02-22-2006, 05:40 PM
how was he supposed to box whan he collapsed?

Ali wouldn't have collapsed in the 15th. He collapsed because he was relieved it was all over and he didn't have to force himself up anymore.

Dempsey 1919
02-22-2006, 06:19 PM
Ali wouldn't have collapsed in the 15th. He collapsed because he was relieved it was all over and he didn't have to force himself up anymore.

exactly. :)

bigsmoothh
02-22-2006, 06:37 PM
jjc vs. tito trinidad both in their prime,

Heckler
02-23-2006, 02:04 AM
** That's what I said, he collapsed immediately off his stool. Do try to keep up and stop disagreeing while agreeing with me.

Ali told Dundee he couldn't continue after the 14th. This is eyewitness acount. Moreover, Frazier had a man in Ali's corner who heard it and was trying to get back to Frazier's corner when Futch pulled the plug. Frazier knows this and is immensely bitter to this day over this fight that he knows and Ali knows that Frazier won their personal battle regardless of what the official cards show.

Maybe in your own little world, but if you can provide some evidence... which still wouldn't matter because it would be more Ali-hating fuelled ****, what you say defies the facts and defies logic. Ali collapsed because he no longer had to fight, it was over... its completely irrelevant. The only reputable sources state that Ali contemplated quitting in round 10. Ali contemplating quitting means nothing, hes never actually backed up his word and QUIT and this would be no exception. One round left + Ali dominating + Alis ego = your a ****en idiot and Ali wasn't going to quit. He didn't quit against Foreman, against Liston, against Frazier in FOTC when he was absolutely exhausted and got dropped... why would he quit here. Its Ali not knowing when to quit that put him in the position he is in today. You have no credibility, you still haven't justified your 'ali collapsed as soon as he stepped of his stool' - which clearly didn't happen. Frazier is bitter, he was here in New Zealand for FIGHT FOR LIFE - celebrities boxing and i had the pleasure of talking to him IN PERSON at the airport where i work. Me and a few other people asked him about the whole Ali saga and he conceeded that he was a great fighter and won the 2nd and Manila fairly and was an amazing fighter for it, but in his own words 'hey, but i scored the knockdown'.. he was bitter about the ABUSE ali inflicted during the 'hype'. Anyone else met him? nice guy, seems a bit slow these days which doesn't suprise me, he sings though - and hes good.

I dont mind people disliking or Ali, or even hating him. But you are just pathetic.

LondonRingRules
02-23-2006, 08:19 AM
=========Maybe in your own little world, but if you can provide some evidence... which still wouldn't matter because it would be more Ali-hating fuelled ****, what you say defies the facts and defies logic. Ali collapsed because he no longer had to fight, it was over... its completely irrelevant.=========

** Ali collapsed because TWICE during the fight he wanted to quit. No shame in that, almost any boxer in history has had those moments.

The problem is you defiling yourself over Ali. You make him out to be more than he was. The man had some major problems in his comeback, and had some serious scares as a prospect, and only had a few years in his prime where he looked close to invincible against weak competition.

He probably has close to a couple dozen bios out on him, most of whom I have read. I've read about him wanting to quit the Frazier 3 bout, and the pounding he took and the way he looked on his stool verifies its. I recently reviewed that fight and the Foreman fight, and quite frankly, Ali was little more than a punching bag in those fights. The only amazing thing was that somehow he managed to win.

Frazier swells up easily because that's his nature, he had high blood pressure and all the symptoms of a prediabetic condition. But it was Ali that took the beating, esp to the body. I thought Frazier won the fight and he has always indicated he felt he did. I don't care what he may have said to you. He gets accosted by fans all the time and probably has a little routine he puts out to make them feel good and gives him a window for escape.

Yaman
02-23-2006, 08:26 AM
Ali wouldn't have collapsed in the 15th. He collapsed because he was relieved it was all over and he didn't have to force himself up anymore.


We can only speculate. You or me weren't there that night, especially not you Butterfly :rolleyes: . You can discuss these kind of stuff, but without saying its a fact or something because you dont know.

smasher
02-23-2006, 09:09 AM
When an Ali fight came to it's conclusion Ali always wanted space to breathe and detested being mobbed. After the Foreman KO Ali can be seen telling them to get away before sitting down on the floor. After Norton II when Bundini tried to embrace Ali, Ali literally punched Bundini in the head. So Ali collapsed on his stool when the fight was over. Why wouldn't he...IT WAS ****ING OVER. HE WON! He was relieved, tired and wanted breathing room. What's he supposed to do, a backflip with a half gainer to show how much energy he had left?

Ali says Manilla was close to death. Well Frazier-Ali I was close to death...for Frazier. Joe was hospitalized for a lengthy stay due to the effects of the fight on Joe.

A friend of mine knows the Frazier's well. He told me that in confidence Joe says Ali was great and cannot believe how tough Ali was. Joe does not complain in private about Manilla. Joe's public bitterness toward Ali relates to Ali's public comments about him building up to their fights.

The record book says ALI KO 14. The scorecards read 9-5 ALI. The video shows Joe getting pounded from rounds 11-14. The video shows Joe's grotesque facial deformity. The video shows Futch stopping the fight. GET OVER IT.

Heckler
02-23-2006, 09:40 AM
=========Maybe in your own little world, but if you can provide some evidence... which still wouldn't matter because it would be more Ali-hating fuelled ****, what you say defies the facts and defies logic. Ali collapsed because he no longer had to fight, it was over... its completely irrelevant.=========

** Ali collapsed because TWICE during the fight he wanted to quit. No shame in that, almost any boxer in history has had those moments.

The problem is you defiling yourself over Ali. You make him out to be more than he was. The man had some major problems in his comeback, and had some serious scares as a prospect, and only had a few years in his prime where he looked close to invincible against weak competition.

He probably has close to a couple dozen bios out on him, most of whom I have read. I've read about him wanting to quit the Frazier 3 bout, and the pounding he took and the way he looked on his stool verifies its. I recently reviewed that fight and the Foreman fight, and quite frankly, Ali was little more than a punching bag in those fights. The only amazing thing was that somehow he managed to win.

Frazier swells up easily because that's his nature, he had high blood pressure and all the symptoms of a prediabetic condition. But it was Ali that took the beating, esp to the body. I thought Frazier won the fight and he has always indicated he felt he did. I don't care what he may have said to you. He gets accosted by fans all the time and probably has a little routine he puts out to make them feel good and gives him a window for escape.

Bull****... dont stray from the point. Reputable bios and sources say he contemplated quitting in the 10th. You thought frazier won the fight? HE LOST THE FIGHT... Ali dominated, inflicted and recieved a huge amount of punishment. Produce some evidence instead of making yourself look like an ignorant, blinded ali-hating moron. How many times did Ali say he wanted to quit throughout his career? multiple, and each of these times Ali obviously wasn't sincere because he continued. If you were a rational human-being you would conclude that Dundee would of been talking to Ali, getting inside his head... as always when the bell rung for the 15th Ali would of got off his stool and knocked Joe out, or do essentially nothing which was possible with the huge lead he had established and the condition Joe was in. Then following his win he would collapse as he did because he no longer needs to use energy, nor wants to after such a taxing fight. Please explain your 'he collapsed as soon as he stepped off his stool' - which apparently wasn't debateable?.If Frazier could accept it, and then praise Ali after the fight you should be able to also. Ali out-fought Joe that night, and won... get the **** over it.

If Frazier could accept it, and then praise Ali after the fight you should be able to also.

Why bring Foreman into this? Ali was tougher then Foreman, smarter then Foreman and more skilled then Foreman... and he won. The fact that he won is not all that AMAZING... Foreman was one dimensional and as a result got exposed. Ali dominated center-ring action, landed well timed counter-punches off the ropes, paced himself.. and increased the verocity of his attacks relative to Foremans tiring, rendered most of Foremans punches useless by rolling with them... Deflecting headshots of the gloves using subtle angles, blocking body shots with the elbows. I suggest you watch that fight a little more closely without your ridiculous bias. Ali is one of the very few men that had the ability to absorb punishment to both body and head, the smarts to execute that plan and the skills. If not the only.

Im not making Ali out to be anything more then he is, He had problems with certain styles.. exposed by Norton, he couldn't block a jab nor attacked the body. I believe him to be the greatest of all time - not exactly a ridiculous thought. I reason, and rationalize when discussing Ali. You however are nothing then an Ali-hating ***** that will pick at anything to discredit the mans achievements. You, and Tommyhearns are as ridiculous as eachother.

Heckler
02-23-2006, 09:51 AM
. He gets accosted by fans all the time and probably has a little routine he puts out to make them feel good and gives him a window for escape.

AND THE PLOT THICKENS... the conspiracy becomes more ridiculous. I never accosted Joe, told him i was a big fan... never let on that i was also a huge fan of Ali. But of course with 3 professional personel around, of whom he saw on many occasions during his stay... he fabricated his attitude, his stories, and his account of that night. ROFL.

smasher
02-23-2006, 09:59 AM
[QUOTE=LondonRingRules Ali was little more than a punching bag in those [/QUOTE]


Now if Ali had danced and won a 15 round decision you'd be complaining that Ali was a ***** and a coward who was scared and just ran all night. Ali beat Foreman by fighting the style that 99.99% of boxing people predicted Ali would killed if he tried. So Ali goes to the ropes and beats him in Foreman's own domain and that makes him a punching bag? Ali was ahead on points. Were the judges giving Ali points for a left kidney to a right glove? You need to watch the fight and see Ali's subtle defensive moves which allowed him to block, slip, muffle, ride and generally diminish Foreman's power all the while countering Foreman. How many former heavyweight champions could have fought off the ropes and beaten Foreman? Ali stunned Foreman many times in that fight prior to the KO, so Ali was hardly "little more than a punching bag". Then again with your idiotic 'the glass is 1% empty' reasoning I wouldn't expect you to see these things...

LondonRingRules
02-23-2006, 04:20 PM
[QUOTE=LondonRingRules Ali was little more than a punching bag in those


Now if Ali had danced and won a 15 round decision you'd be complaining that Ali was a ***** and a coward who was scared and just ran all night. Ali beat Foreman by fighting the style that 99.99% of boxing people predicted Ali would killed if he tried. So Ali goes to the ropes and beats him in Foreman's own domain and that makes him a punching bag? Ali was ahead on points. Were the judges giving Ali points for a left kidney to a right glove? You need to watch the fight and see Ali's subtle defensive moves which allowed him to block, slip, muffle, ride and generally diminish Foreman's power all the while countering Foreman. How many former heavyweight champions could have fought off the ropes and beaten Foreman? Ali stunned Foreman many times in that fight prior to the KO, so Ali was hardly "little more than a punching bag". Then again with your idiotic 'the glass is 1% empty' reasoning I wouldn't expect you to see these things...[/QUOTE]
** Nah, I'd complain that you were light in the loafers.

I was a big Ali fan and saw him up close in his prime. He was extremely effective in his prime. I admire good boxing, good slugging, all boxing attributes.

I don't admire ignorance and BS. Foreman was ahead by 2, not Ali. I had him up by 3-4. Nobody could have beaten Foreman off the ropes, but Ali knew the conditions had been jacked perfectly in Ali's favor and could never beat Foreman again in America.

Ali won the bout, but he was a punching bag in his comeback and had a lot of help with refs and judges. I know it, because I saw it, told everybody about then and I see the results today. Even if he was blocking everything, which he most assuredly wasn't, he was still taking a beating the likes of which has seldom been seen.

LondonRingRules
02-23-2006, 04:29 PM
=========Why bring Foreman into this? Ali was tougher then Foreman, smarter then Foreman and more skilled then Foreman... and he won. The fact that he won is not all that AMAZING... Foreman was one dimensional and as a result got exposed. Ali dominated center-ring action, landed well timed counter-punches off the ropes, paced himself.. and increased the verocity of his attacks relative to Foremans tiring, rendered most of Foremans punches useless by rolling with them... Deflecting headshots of the gloves using subtle angles, blocking body shots with the elbows. I suggest you watch that fight a little more closely without your ridiculous bias. Ali is one of the very few men that had the ability to absorb punishment to both body and head, the smarts to execute that plan and the skills. If not the only. =================

** Ali is a shaking bag of jelly today because he wasn't blocking all those shots. He was tough then, propped up by you, judges, refs, and promoters, and he's paying the price now. No heavy champ in history ever loses to NeonLeon, but he does because finally some judges were just too embarassed to let him win another.

Nobody was a bigger fan of Ali than I, but I can see the smoke and mirrors in his comeback and that bothers you, which is good, because you are part of the reason he wouldn't retire and can't function today.

I brought Foreman into it because in the Frazier 3 fight it was Frazier doing the bulk of the damage like the Foreman fight. Sure, Ali won the fights, and I credit his heart and toughness, but all the conditions and circumstances, all the bounces went his way, all the way until he met Spinks. Ali arguably won as many as 10 controversial fights and never lost a controversial fight. What does that tell you?

TheHoff'sGhost
02-23-2006, 04:32 PM
the thrilaa in manilla

"its gonna be a chiller
and a thriller
and a killer
when i get the gorilla
in manilla"
--muhammad ali

boxing scribe
02-23-2006, 05:25 PM
It depends on what you like to see but all things considered, two fighters fighting in their prime, in the most famous city of all time, with two undefeated records, who didn't like each other (never underestimate the animosity factor) fighting for the biggest purse ever until that time...Ali-Frazier I was the best fight ever.

If you watch the actual fight, it was art, it was war, it was skill, it was drama...AND it was viewed all over the world...what other fight besides perhaps Louis and ole Maxie did the entire world tune in? This was the one, the greatest fight of all time!

boxing scribe
02-23-2006, 05:31 PM
=========Why bring Foreman into this? Ali was tougher then Foreman, smarter then Foreman and more skilled then Foreman... and he won. The fact that he won is not all that AMAZING... Foreman was one dimensional and as a result got exposed.

Its funny after a man gets his ass whipped, he's easy to pick apart. Don't sleep on Forman! It is amazing that Ali beat Forman because only Ali could absorb that kind of punishment to last with Forman. Forman had already destroyed two men who beat the **** out of Ali...only Ali's chin saved him in the fight against George, anyone else would have been knocked out. Forman may have been one dimensional and all that other stuff you said...but he was also a guy who could kill a man in the ring and was the most devastating puncher in the ring (yes i think he hit harder than ernie and liston)

Southpaw Stinger
02-23-2006, 06:21 PM
Foreman is definatly the hardest hitter of all time. It takes brains, speed and a good chin to have a chance of beating him.

Dempsey 1919
02-23-2006, 06:38 PM
It depends on what you like to see but all things considered, two fighters fighting in their prime, in the most famous city of all time, with two undefeated records, who didn't like each other (never underestimate the animosity factor) fighting for the biggest purse ever until that time...Ali-Frazier I was the best fight ever.

If you watch the actual fight, it was art, it was war, it was skill, it was drama...AND it was viewed all over the world...what other fight besides perhaps Louis and ole Maxie did the entire world tune in? This was the one, the greatest fight of all time!

i totally agree. good k for you!

Southpaw Stinger
02-23-2006, 07:13 PM
And Frazier came out the better man!

Dempsey 1919
02-23-2006, 07:26 PM
And Frazier came out the better man!

true, but that was still the best fight eva!

smasher
02-23-2006, 08:18 PM
[QUOTE=LondonRingRules Ali knew the conditions had been jacked perfectly in Ali's favor and could never beat Foreman again in America.[/QUOTE]

Did you know that was a 16 ft square ring? How is that jacked in Ali's favour? Stop making up ridiculous arguments. As for Ali never beating Foreman again, it was Foreman's choice to stay inactive after losing his title not Ali's. Foreman then lost to Young in an eliminator bout, so Foreman controlled HIS OWN destiny in not fighting Ali again....

Heckler
02-23-2006, 09:29 PM
=========Why bring Foreman into this? Ali was tougher then Foreman, smarter then Foreman and more skilled then Foreman... and he won. The fact that he won is not all that AMAZING... Foreman was one dimensional and as a result got exposed. Ali dominated center-ring action, landed well timed counter-punches off the ropes, paced himself.. and increased the verocity of his attacks relative to Foremans tiring, rendered most of Foremans punches useless by rolling with them... Deflecting headshots of the gloves using subtle angles, blocking body shots with the elbows. I suggest you watch that fight a little more closely without your ridiculous bias. Ali is one of the very few men that had the ability to absorb punishment to both body and head, the smarts to execute that plan and the skills. If not the only. =================

** Ali is a shaking bag of jelly today because he wasn't blocking all those shots. He was tough then, propped up by you, judges, refs, and promoters, and he's paying the price now. No heavy champ in history ever loses to NeonLeon, but he does because finally some judges were just too embarassed to let him win another.

Nobody was a bigger fan of Ali than I, but I can see the smoke and mirrors in his comeback and that bothers you, which is good, because you are part of the reason he wouldn't retire and can't function today.

I brought Foreman into it because in the Frazier 3 fight it was Frazier doing the bulk of the damage like the Foreman fight. Sure, Ali won the fights, and I credit his heart and toughness, but all the conditions and circumstances, all the bounces went his way, all the way until he met Spinks. Ali arguably won as many as 10 controversial fights and never lost a controversial fight. What does that tell you?


This gets better and better... Ali defeated 3 greats, but CONVENIENTLY (FOR YOUR ALI-HATING AGENDA) they were all under circumstances where they wern't legitimate. Because the fight was fixed, or he got lucky, or a bunch of other ridiculous mis-haps you have produced in your mind... yeah right, he fought 3 greats, beat them all but the chances were such that none were legitimate. Your a ****en joke... and we know your a joke from the point you stated (quoting you loosely) 'The fact that ali collapsed the moment he stepped of his stool is not debateable'. Ali beat foreman fairly, and he would do it over and over again... you are becoming more delusional and ridiculous as this thread continues. There hasn't been one reputable boxing historian that has held a collective view close to yours, they would laugh at you. Ali didn't win close to 10 controversial decs at all, he lost to Norton twice... and ill admit that. Ali got beaten by leon spinks in 1978, and? an old man with parkinsons that should of retired got beaten far beyond his prime, he then come back and gave spinks a lesson in ringcraft... whats your ****en point. If you had all your chromosomes, and stopped being such a slanted moron you would look at the 66-75 version of Ali. How much damage Ali recieved during his carrer is irrelevant, its whether or not he raises his hand at the end of the fight. He beat Liston, he beat foreman and he beat frazier and won the HW championship 3 times... i dont glorify him, i dont need to, his record speaks for itself. Get the **** over it.

LondonRingRules
02-24-2006, 06:00 AM
=======Ali got beaten by leon spinks in 1978, and? an old man with parkinsons that should of retired got beaten far beyond his prime, he then come back and gave spinks a lesson in ringcraft... whats your ****en point.==============

** My point is that Ali want to quit a tough match he was getting his guts handed to him against a fighter who had high blood pressure, a prediabetic condition, and was already blind in one eye before he ever stepped into the ring. My point is Ali had to whip himself into the best condition of his career just to outbox a little cracked out amateur who was knocked out more than any champ in history in his short career.

It was pretty obvious to everyone at that point who had won the latest Norton and Young fights and why the ref pulled the plug on Shavers when he tried to mimic ropadope and why Foreman never got his rematch. To those who wish to promote Ali based on his comeback, that's a double edged sword since he was not a dominant fighter anymore and was known more for his personality, struggles and toughness than skill or power, contrary to the fawning press which had done a 180 degree turn and no longer slagged on him as they had in the 60s.

LondonRingRules
02-24-2006, 06:08 AM
========= As for Ali never beating Foreman again, it was Foreman's choice to stay inactive after losing his title not Ali's. Foreman then lost to Young in an eliminator bout, so Foreman controlled HIS OWN destiny in not fighting Ali again....========

** Foreman was 5-0, 5 KOs before Young since the Ali bout. Try again. Moreover Foreman was 2-0, 2 KO, targeting recent Ali title opponents that he easily KOed after they gave Ali life and death struggles. Foreman was also the cover of Sports Illustrated in 75, calling out Ali.

Foreman didn't control his own destiny. His contract was held by King as was Ali's. He says in his bio he was asked by King to carry Young or he wouldn't get a title shot, something his style obviously could not accomodate well. Young won the fight, and guess what? NO TITLE SHOT. Dude, Ali never wanted to see Young in the ring either. You boys really do need to study up more.

smasher
02-24-2006, 08:18 AM
========= As for Ali never beating Foreman again, it was Foreman's choice to stay inactive after losing his title not Ali's. Foreman then lost to Young in an eliminator bout, so Foreman controlled HIS OWN destiny in not fighting Ali again....========

** Foreman was 5-0, 5 KOs before Young since the Ali bout. Try again. Moreover Foreman was 2-0, 2 KO, targeting recent Ali title opponents that he easily KOed after they gave Ali life and death struggles. Foreman was also the cover of Sports Illustrated in 75, calling out Ali.

Foreman didn't control his own destiny. His contract was held by King as was Ali's. He says in his bio he was asked by King to carry Young or he wouldn't get a title shot, something his style obviously could not accomodate well. Young won the fight, and guess what? NO TITLE SHOT. Dude, Ali never wanted to see Young in the ring either. You boys really do need to study up more.

Foreman went inactive for 15 months after losing to Ali then looked like **** against Lyle. Got dropped twice in one round and was hurt repeatedly in the fight. Was Foreman supposed to get a return fight based on this **** performance?

Foreman didn't 'target' Frazier. Frazier wanted to redeem his prior loss to Foreman. And wins over Dino Dennis, Pedro Agosta and Scott Ledoux weren't exactly great Foreman resume boosters. Their fight was mutual, except that Frazier needed Foreman more than the other way around. Was Foreman's win that impressive then against a fighter you claim had high blood pressure, pre-diabetic condition and blind in one eye?

Sure, Foreman carried Young. More Foreman nonsense. Foreman was afraid of punching himself out and fought at a more measured pace. Foreman carrying Young is yet another Foreman pile of nonsense. He had Young hurt in the 7th. Why didn't he KO him then? BECAUSE HE COULDN'T. I guess Foreman being floored in the 12th was more faking on Foreman's part. Maybe Foreman should have faked a first round KO loss then an over confident Ali really would have fought him, right?

He also was drugged against Ali, was robbed against Morrison and deserved the decision against Holyfield among other wonderful claims Foreman has made.

King did not have a contract on Ali, that's more ignorance on your part. Ali was a freelancer who fought for various promotors such as Arum and Lewis. Dunn, Norton, Evangelista, Shavers, Spinks twice...From 76-78 only the Evangelista fight promoted by King. Ali under contract? **** off, stop using bull**** to try and baffle the lesser informed.

Ali didn't tell Foreman to retire in '77. Once again FOREMAN CONTROLLED HIS OWN DESTINY. HE LOST TO YOUNG THEN RETIRED. TOO BAD SO SAD.

With Foreman retired Ali fought the next most dangerous hitter in the division Ernie Shavers.

Young won the Foreman fight and didn't get the Ali title shot because guess what.... HE LOST TO NORTON. Do YOUR homework DUDE...

Heckler
02-24-2006, 07:08 PM
London ring rules, you are a joke... Ali was occupied with Frazier in 75, there is no way he was going to go through manila and then go on to fight Foreman, after Manila he was nothing more then a completely shot fighter. Im not debating foremans greatness so i dont see what your point is, but he got he got beaten by Ali and would always be beaten by Ali before Manila. Ali obviously blew your perception of Foreman being invincible out the window thus you cannot accept his loss and resort to ridiculous theories about the fight being fixed... contrary to reputable boxing historians accounts - Like Ali did against Norton, Foreman got exposed against Ali. Your nothing more then a complete headcase.

The very earliest Foreman could fight Ali would be in 1976. In 75' Foreman was still a complete headcase himself, he had hired a new trainer and boxing historians noted that the new 'controlled' style he used was not half as effective as the brutally destructive one he used PRE-74'. He doesn't have the fundemental ability or technique to fight in a controlled fashion and be effective. He would struggle with Ali in 76' although i would definately give the edge to him.

Heckler
02-24-2006, 07:18 PM
=======Ali got beaten by leon spinks in 1978, and? an old man with parkinsons that should of retired got beaten far beyond his prime, he then come back and gave spinks a lesson in ringcraft... whats your ****en point.==============

** My point is that Ali want to quit a tough match he was getting his guts handed to him against a fighter who had high blood pressure, a prediabetic condition, and was already blind in one eye before he ever stepped into the ring. My point is Ali had to whip himself into the best condition of his career just to outbox a little cracked out amateur who was knocked out more than any champ in history in his short career.

It was pretty obvious to everyone at that point who had won the latest Norton and Young fights and why the ref pulled the plug on Shavers when he tried to mimic ropadope and why Foreman never got his rematch. To those who wish to promote Ali based on his comeback, that's a double edged sword since he was not a dominant fighter anymore and was known more for his personality, struggles and toughness than skill or power, contrary to the fawning press which had done a 180 degree turn and no longer slagged on him as they had in the 60s.

Like i said, informed boxing historians and any logically thinking individual knows that Ali wasn't quitting, never intended on quitting merely contemplated quitting as he did numerous times throughout his career... your tinfoil hat theories are just plain ridiculous and are the contrary to what any reputable boxing historian has said 'Ali contemplated qutting in round 10' - Frazier wasn't at his prime and was damaged goods, but no more so then ****en Ali. Oh so now you are going to discredit Ali for getting himself into shape when far past his prime at age 37 WITH PARKINSONS?. Shavers had a **** jaw and got beaten, simple. He achieved more in his comeback then he did in the 60's, he beat Frazier twice genuinely without a doubt and beat Foreman <-- those are HUGE accomplishments, so get the **** over it.

Heckler
02-24-2006, 07:37 PM
'Ali came through the second and built a steady lead. In a promotional gimmick the television commentators at ringside were allowed access to the judges scorecards at the end of each round and so Angelo Dundee was able to gain access to the status of the fight. By the 12 Ali was ahead by eight rounds to four. Shavers came on strong in the 13th and 14th rounds, rocking Ali with some big punches. At big last three minutes for the challenger might have seen him home, yet Ali came back from the edge yet again. He stole the centre of the ring and stung Shavers with some cutting punches. It was enough.' If you actually watched the fight you would realise that Ali picked Shavers apart and racked up sufficent points throughout the fight, shavers was getting stung by hard flurries and had a glass jaw.

I admit, Ali didn't look great in the ring that night and shouldn't of been fighting at all.

LondonRingRules
02-25-2006, 09:35 AM
=======Foreman went inactive for 15 months after losing to Ali then looked like **** against Lyle. Got dropped twice in one round and was hurt repeatedly in the fight. Was Foreman supposed to get a return fight based on this **** performance?==============

** Foreman was inactive because he couldn't secure a rematch. Just think Hagler trying to chase down Leonard. Turned out to be impossible

Foreman was not inactive for the time frame you list. He fought a highly publicized exhibition against 5 consecutive heavies, most of whom he KOed. He was publically calling out Ali on TV, and Ali was there hurling racial insults at his comp and generally acting the part of the typical NOI ass he was back then when his buttons were punched up.

At any rate, Foreman knocked Lyle cold, something Ali couldn't do. Foreman only needed half as many rounds as Ali needed before a kindly ref took pity on Ali and stopped Lyle. Lyle had dominated Ali, winning most every round before Lyle decided to showboat with some ropa dope.

You're gonna have see what else you can pull from your shorts if you wanna continue to try to remake Ali into more than he was, which was a pretty fine heavy, a top 5 for sure, but a bit of a joke in the last half of his comeback.

It's there for everyone to see: He was not blocking that many shots.

SquareCircle
02-25-2006, 09:43 AM
#1 Holyfield vs Qawi
#2 Foreman vs Lyle

Heckler
02-25-2006, 06:24 PM
Im not making Ali out to be bigger then he was. I know his career and performances were rather **** after 75. From 70-75 he achieved alot, he beat Frazier twice genuinely and took out Foreman much to your disbelief obviously. The whole boxing community was 'in it' were they? because it seems every match whether it be foreman, frazier, or lyle its magically setup so Ali wins. But oh no, of course there is some kind of special trivial circumstance that only you know of that allowed him to win thus we should discredit it. The fact that you went on to say that the fight against Foreman was essentially a fix shows how delusional you really are. After Manila he should of retired, but he didn't and due to his declining he fought poorly and got some questionable decs. And?. His career and performance between 66-75 was amazing.

Heckler
02-25-2006, 06:28 PM
And Lyle got beaten fair and square, he got hit by a big right hand and was visibly really hurt by it... that punch itself nearly knocked him out, Ali was hitting him with hard flurries and there was no need for it to continue, Lyle was gone after that right and was recieving constant pressure.. The ref made the right dec.

LondonRingRules
02-26-2006, 04:14 AM
Im not making Ali out to be bigger then he was. I know his career and performances were rather **** after 75. From 70-75 he achieved alot, he beat Frazier twice genuinely and took out Foreman much to your disbelief obviously. The whole boxing community was 'in it' were they? because it seems every match whether it be foreman, frazier, or lyle its magically setup so Ali wins. But oh no, of course there is some kind of special trivial circumstance that only you know of that allowed him to win thus we should discredit it. The fact that you went on to say that the fight against Foreman was essentially a fix shows how delusional you really are. After Manila he should of retired, but he didn't and due to his declining he fought poorly and got some questionable decs. And?. His career and performance between 66-75 was amazing.
** No, I didn't say it was a fix, but at best all the conditions strangely favored Ali in the bout, and at worst, boxing has a rich tradition of fixes and I doubt precious few in boxing would deny King has fixed more than his fair share of modern bouts.

I give Ali credit for outlasting George, but after 74 he looked like crap. Wepner roughed him bad, Lyle outboxed him, Frazier beat him up, Young outboxed him and made him look ugly, Norton outhustled him, Evangelista/Shavers made him look old and tired. I just don't see how a fighter can win all of the above fights without something being passed under the table.

Fact is Bonavena also roughed him up bad in 71, but we always excuse that his rustiness coming back. So I can agree with generally what you are saying, but I would cut off a year and make it 66-74 were Ali at his prime or close to it in championship form. In that frame he was 3-2 against the best fighters of the era. Not exactly the invincible legend some of his fans prop him up to be, but considering the strength of the era, pretty good over all.

czars_salad
02-26-2006, 04:43 AM
thrilla in manila.

they were fighting under extreme heat (literally) imagine fighting in a tropical country, in an enclosed arena where the airconditioning did not work, and yet deliver a killer of a fight!

Heckler
02-26-2006, 05:15 AM
I cant think of how the conditions favoured Ali in 74' at all? a 16 foot ring opposed to a 20 foot ring? It was a boxing match, no dodgy decs, and a knockout... Ali won that, fair and square, no-1 can take that fight, or Manila away from him. 66-75, he showed skill, execution of ringcraft but mainly guts in the ring in 75... Watching two past their prime-fighters giving everything they have left in the tank was great to watch, he still had something left in him at that stage. After this he was completely shot.

Heckler
02-26-2006, 05:24 AM
I give Ali credit for outlasting George, but after 74 he looked like crap. Wepner roughed him bad, Lyle outboxed him, Frazier beat him up, Young outboxed him and made him look ugly, Norton outhustled him, Evangelista/Shavers made him look old and tired. I just don't see how a fighter can win all of the above fights without something being passed under the table.

He beat a few of the above, he beat wepner... and by wepners own admission he beat him and also by his own admission the body shot knockdown, was not a legitimate one. After reviewing the Shavers fight once more i have concluded that it should of atleast been a draw. He should of lost the fight against Young. Ron Lyle lost, he was space-travelling after being hit by that right and was getting stung by flurries... it was one of the few occasions in the 70s where a referee has stopped a fight when they should of... better then watching a defenseless guy get the **** punched out of him which was a regular occurance in that era of boxing and before hand. Bonavena roughed him up yes, but the fact of the matter is he raised his hand at the end of the match... he outboxed him, and to the amazement of the boxing world knocked captain-granitejaw himself out.

Heckler
02-26-2006, 06:23 AM
Its not Alis fault that he occasionally got suspect decs... Ali was always humble in defeat, he was in FOTC. Although arrogant, i dont believe Ali is a fighter that would allow a fight to be fixed... his ego was too big, he was too proud. He was bigger then boxing, he did alot for the popularity of the sport and no doubt the boxing community wanted to keep him around hence such dec's arise. I detest the notion that Ali would do anything out of the ring to increase his chances of getting the nod.

smasher
02-26-2006, 08:58 AM
**
I give Ali credit for outlasting George, but after 74 he looked like crap.

The Foreman fight did not physically 'soften' Ali up but it did have 3 psychologically detrimental effects on Ali.

1) Beating Foreman made Ali believe he was a KO puncher (which he wasn't). Examples of this are his fights with Frazier III, and Norton II where he planted and tried for early KO's and Spinks I where he believed he could throw away early rounds and still have the power for a late KO.

2) Beating Foreman made Ali believe that the rope-a-dope strategy was a legitimate tactic that could be used again effectively (which it wasn't). Examples are Frazier III and Spinks I where the opponents did not tire and Lyle and Shavers where they flat out refused to be lured into punching themselves out.

3) Beating Foreman meant being Champion and the Ali Circus went full swing with too many leeches, hanger-ons, partying, womanizing and god knows what else. Ali's over-confidence caused him to focus less on training and fighting and more on being a celebrity and basking in the glow and glamour of it. Examples of Ali's poor preparation was Wepner, Young and Spinks I. I believe the only fights Ali seriously trained for from 74-78 were Norton III and Spinks II.

TonyRingside
02-26-2006, 03:48 PM
Is everybody forgetting Hagler vs. Hearns?

boxing912
02-26-2006, 04:01 PM
people are forgetting about chacon vs lemon unbelivable fight 15 rounds of nostop action and 3 knockdowns

davidcashley
03-07-2006, 04:47 PM
Muhammad Ali-Joe Frazier (III)

Diego Corrales-Jose Luis Castillo (I)

Marvin Hagler-Tommy Hearns

Muhammad Ali-Joe Frazier (I)

Muhammad Ali-George Foreman

George Foreman-Ryan Lyle

Sugar Ray Robinson-Jake LaMotta (VI)

Sugar Ray Leonard-Tommy Hearns (I)

Joe Louis-Max Schmeling (II)

Aaron Pryor-Alexis Arguello (I)

Evander Holyfield-Riddick Bowe (I)

Rocky Marciano-Jersey Joe Walcott (I)

Gene Tunney-Jack Dempsey (II)

Larry Holmes-Ken Norton

Jack Dempsey-Luis 'Angel' Firpo

Joe Louis-Billy Conn (I)

Tony Zale-Rocky Graziano (I and II)

Carmen Basilio-Tony DeMarco (I and II)

Willie Pep-Sandy Saddler (II)

Archie Moore-Yvon Durelle (I)

m1kee50
10-11-2006, 11:37 AM
would it not be easier to set up a shortlist and a poll?

best fight this year so far that i have seen: moore vs macklin (one for the brits) or baldomir gatti for the international fans, second place would be de la hoya vs mayorga (only kidding, not bad but not a classic)

BuddyChacon
10-11-2006, 11:48 AM
people are forgetting about chacon vs lemon unbelivable fight 15 rounds of nostop action and 3 knockdowns

No Doubt. Chacon-Boza Edwards was also great.

BmoreBrawler
10-11-2006, 11:53 AM
remeber Gatti in all this.

Hard Boiled HK
10-11-2006, 11:10 PM
Ali - Frazier I

sleazyfellow
10-12-2006, 12:55 AM
well if ur talking best boxing matches of all time here is my crappy list
1. durell/moore that fight had it all
2. ali/frazier 1 fast paced and was the only decision fight i like watching
3. arguello/pryor 1 both got sum good shots in that would knocked out lesser fighters.
4. hagler/hearns it only went 3 rounds but was very fast and brutal
5. sugar ray robinson/fullmer i just like the left hook he throws in that fight
thats just a semi list but ah well thats off the top of my head

Southpaw Stinger
10-12-2006, 07:46 AM
remeber Gatti in all this.

Yeah man, all of his fights were exciting.

Southpaw Stinger
10-12-2006, 08:27 AM
Gotta be one of the most one sided;


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Toddy
10-12-2006, 08:33 AM
id loved corrales/castillo I and gatti/ward I&III but i wana see ali/frazier I before i make my decision

Krucial
10-21-2006, 11:17 AM
Leonard DEF Hearns
---crazy fight,never thought hearns l' switch styles wit leonard n ****,lol----
---but the rematch was bull****,hearns took it all the way,they just didnt wanna tarnish leonards record,thats all----

Hagler DEF Hearns
---i wish hearns won by the tko he was almost given,cuz dat eye of marvins was ****ed!!!but hearns got so tired(cuz of there backnforth rapidfire action,lol)n he couldnt handle all that in just 3 rounds...got hit n dropped

hemichromis
10-22-2006, 09:09 AM
ali vs frasier 1
nigel benn vs mccelan
lyle vs foreman if you like a slugfest

hemichromis
10-22-2006, 09:10 AM
also ali vs foreman theres no better example of brains over brawn in boxing