artist period......especially in these times, everybody is making the same lame swag dance music while hes talking about real life......he has progressed with every album evolving with new binary sounds.....when you hear the song once you cant understand it....you have to hear it like 10 times to sonically visualize the heuristics of the situation....every album is advanced for its time they get better years later.....i heard his tour is a once in your lifetime experience too

Honestly I don't think hes the greatest but I think 2-Pac would have liked Kanye...nuff said.lol

Don't confuse kanye's creativity with greatness... he's not even the best rapper from chicago...Real Talk No hate...

its not about rap, its about quality music... hes a musician

I'd fuсk his gay ass until he loved me.

:rofl::rofl:

Oh, this isn't a joke..:ugh:

:puke:

Oh my god this has to be a joke. hahaha at originality when he uses the auto tune like everyone else right now

kanye is not the greatest. Not even close.

Kanyes the greatest at being a homo who hasn't come out yet.

He's creative. I'll give him that.But by no means he's the greatest rapper!

kanye is no where near the greatest rapper, and hes not even one of the greatest producers. He put in some great work earlier in his career but he aint what he was. His new album is trash, and he continues to make rap worse with his "pop" sh!t. For people who listened to rap in the 90's, when lyrics were more complex, a gay piece of sh!t like kangay is disrespecting the great history of rap.

If i was a mod, i would delete this thread. Any one who thinks kanye is the best rapper please hang yourself. Hes not even a rapper anymore. His whole style is gay. The only thing hes good for is making beats and hes not even as good at that anymore. The rap game would be better without him.

People were mad at Andre 3000 for going wierd. And the same for Common after Electric Circus. Some were pissed for Snoop going all R and B. At the end of the day they are all artists who have grown and want to try something new. Ye's new album is no different from others trying something new. And this is coming from someone who loves hip hop.

I think the point that the original poster made went over everyone's head.


No one is arguing that Kanye is the greatest rapper.

No one is arguing that Kanye is the greatest producer.


But by far, Kanye West is Hip Hop's most progressive artist.

Hip Hop has always been about originality. Listen to Kanye's first album, and compare it to his newest one, and you will see him progress as an artist, much more than any 'rapper' ever has.


The thing is, Hip Hop, as a musical artform is very limited in its structure. 95% of Hip Hop music is based on a standard 8-bar hook, 16 bar verse, rinse, repeat. Which doesn't leave a lot of room for creativity.

Hate it or love it, Kanye wasn't afraid to venture outside of this limited formula, and has had much success doing it. Also, there aren't many Hip Hop artists who have been able to capture such a wide audience as Kanye, outside of the Hip Hop world.

Also, Kanye's new album was produced entirely using the Roland TR-808 drum machine.


REAL Hip Hop heads know the deal.

I just want to clear something up, when I said that Pac would like Kanye. I'm not trying to imply that I think Kanye is the greatest, or should even be considered. I'm just saying I think Pac would have liked Kanye's flow/speak his mind type of attitude.

I think the point that the original poster made went over everyone's head.


No one is arguing that Kanye is the greatest rapper.

No one is arguing that Kanye is the greatest producer.


But by far, Kanye West is Hip Hop's most progressive artist.

Hip Hop has always been about originality. Listen to Kanye's first album, and compare it to his newest one, and you will see him progress as an artist, much more than any 'rapper' ever has.


The thing is, Hip Hop, as a musical artform is very limited in its structure. 95% of Hip Hop music is based on a standard 8-bar hook, 16 bar verse, rinse, repeat. Which doesn't leave a lot of room for creativity.

Hate it or love it, Kanye wasn't afraid to venture outside of this limited formula, and has had much success doing it. Also, there aren't many Hip Hop artists who have been able to capture such a wide audience as Kanye, outside of the Hip Hop world.

Divine Styler>>>Kanye

People were mad at Andre 3000 for going wierd. And the same for Common after Electric Circus. Some were pissed for Snoop going all R and B. At the end of the day they are all artists who have grown and want to try something new. Ye's new album is no different from others trying something new. And this is coming from someone who loves hip hop.

I cant agree with that...its all singin, i dont see how its a rap album. Common, andre 3000, and snoop were all still rappin. Kanye is singin...with that auto tune sh!t :ugh1:

@Pancho. If you asked 10 people, even Hip Hop heads who Divine Styler was, I'd be surprised if 4 of them could answer your question.

I'm speaking on more of a mainstream basis. Part of what I mean by progressive is getting people to catch on to what you're doing, which is obviously going to be hard for someone who doesn't have a large fanbase to begin with, with all due respect.


@The Gold Mac

Have you ever heard of Afrika Baambata ? Would you consider that 'rapping' ?

If all Hip Hop artists were as closed minded as you are, Hip Hop wouldn't be where it is today. You seem to be basing your whole opinion on Kanye's new album alone.

@Pancho. If you asked 10 people, even Hip Hop heads who Divine Styler was, I'd be surprised if 4 of them could answer your question.

I'm speaking on more of a mainstream basis. Part of what I mean by progressive is getting people to catch on to what you're doing, which is obviously going to be hard for someone who doesn't have a large fanbase to begin with, with all due respect.


@The Gold Mac

Have you ever heard of Afrika Baambata ? Would you consider that 'rapping' ?

If all Hip Hop artists were as closed minded as you are, Hip Hop wouldn't be where it is today. You seem to be basing your whole opinion on Kanye's new album alone.

And thats what great about having older Hiphop heads like me around to check younger cats on their facts.

Just because you've never heard of a group or artist, doesn't mean they never existed.

Appreciate that someone here even listened to Divine Styler and is able to throw his name out there.



I guess because you've most likely never heard of Uncle Jamz Army, it shouldn't be a part of Hiphop history.


lol @ you.

@The Gold Mac

Have you ever heard of Afrika Baambata ? Would you consider that 'rapping' ?

If all Hip Hop artists were as closed minded as you are, Hip Hop wouldn't be where it is today. You seem to be basing your whole opinion on Kanye's new album alone.

Im not sure why your defendin that new kangay garbage. And Afrika Baambata is more hip hop then kangay. I realize theres many different styles of rap, your not tellin me nothin i dont know. Me personally, i dont like his singing and i dont consider that rap. I know others like it. But i dont see how you could categorize it as a rap cd.

Kanyes not even a good singer, and that auto tune sh!t is gay as ****. If im gonna listen to singin, im gonna listen to R Kelly (no pedo) or Nate dogg.

Im not sure why your defendin that new kangay garbage. And Afrika Baambata is more hip hop then kangay. I realize theres many different styles of rap, your not tellin me nothin i dont know. Me personally, i dont like his singing and i dont consider that rap. I know others like it. But i dont see how you could categorize it as a rap cd.

Kanyes not even a good singer, and that auto tune sh!t is gay as ****. If im gonna listen to singin, im gonna listen to R Kelly (no pedo) or Nate dogg.

and if we want to hear synthesized voices,

We'll listen to Roger and Zapp.

Heres an example of a man courting a woman..


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wCYiYgn1XWY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wCYiYgn1XWY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

kanye west would be treated as a woman over here

I have to co-sign gold mac.

Its one thing to rap about different things and have a different style....

its another thing to not rap, and be a rapper.lol

And thats what great about having older Hiphop heads like me around to check younger cats on their facts.

Just because you've never heard of a group or artist, doesn't mean they never existed.

Appreciate that someone here even listened to Divine Styler and is able to throw his name out there.



I guess because you've most likely never heard of Uncle Jamz Army, it shouldn't be a part of Hiphop history.


lol @ you.

I never said Divine Styler never existed. I just pointed out the fact that if you asked 10 people, even Hip Hop heads, who that artist was...I'd be surprised if 4 of them could even tell you that the person was indeed a Hip Hop artist.

My point being, its very easy to be progressive when no one is listening.

But I know you. You're the backpacking Hip Hop purist who damns everything that sells over 500 copies. The one who curses every song played on the radio and on MTV.

He wears a purse. Enought said.

Im not sure why your defendin that new kangay garbage. And Afrika Baambata is more hip hop then kangay. I realize theres many different styles of rap, your not tellin me nothin i dont know. Me personally, i dont like his singing and i dont consider that rap. I know others like it. But i dont see how you could categorize it as a rap cd.

Kanyes not even a good singer, and that auto tune sh!t is gay as ****. If im gonna listen to singin, im gonna listen to R Kelly (no pedo) or Nate dogg.

Not defending anything. I just hate when people try to categorize things based on their opinions, and base it off of whether or not they like it.

You not liking Kanye's new album doesn't make it NOT Hip Hop or rap.

I never said Divine Styler never existed. I just pointed out the fact that if you asked 10 people, even Hip Hop heads, who that artist was...I'd be surprised if 4 of them could even tell you that the person was indeed a Hip Hop artist.

My point being, its very easy to be progressive when no one is listening.

But I know you. You're the backpacking Hip Hop purist who damns everything that sells over 500 copies. The one who curses every song played on the radio and on MTV.

Oh really?

Tell me why I have G Unit on my mp3 player then?
Ice Cube?
Pac?
Biggie?
Nirvana?
Mos Def?

You want more?



My point was, you said, and I quote,

But by far, Kanye West is Hip Hop's most progressive artist.

I gave an example of an artist who is more so. You never mentioned anything about the mainstream.

But I'll give you some more examples of Hiphop artists who are more progressive than Kanye West.

El-P.


Heres another,

Hank Shocklee.


You want some more?


You don't want to get into it about Hiphop with me little homie.

Not defending anything. I just hate when people try to categorize things based on their opinions, and base it off of whether or not they like it.

You not liking Kanye's new album doesn't make it NOT Hip Hop or rap.

Uh, I'm going to have to refer you to an artist I just named in my last post.

El-P.

High Water.


Look it up and I dare you to call it a Hiphop album.



From what I've heard in reviews, Kanyes album is not Hiphop.





The irony of you painting me as an elitist, yet, in your own post, you talk about what REAL Hiphop heads know.


Also, Kanye's new album was produced entirely using the Roland TR-808 drum machine.


REAL Hip Hop heads know the deal.

Kick rocks scrub.

Not defending anything. I just hate when people try to categorize things based on their opinions, and base it off of whether or not they like it.

You not liking Kanye's new album doesn't make it NOT Hip Hop or rap.

Assuming makes you look like an ass. The fact that I dislike the new kangay cd has nothin to do with me considering it to not be a hip hop or rap album...And i do like music outside of hip hop but that new kangay sh!t is straight up wack as **** son. I listened to the advanced version, and deleted it. Then i listened to the retail, and deleted it. I heard very little if any rap. It was mainly all singing, and terrible singing. Like I said if im gonna listen to singin ill put on some nate dogg, r kelly, mary j blidge, faith evans...but apparently you missed that. Kangay had a good run...his first 2 cds were nice. Graduation had its moments...but this new sh!t is trash and its not rap.

And pancho...i agree with everything you said.

Assuming makes you look like an ass. The fact that I dislike the new kangay cd has nothin to do with me considering it to not be a hip hop or rap album...



but this new sh!t is trash and its not rap.



You're contradicting yourself in the same quote. All I was saying, I hate it when people try to categorize music based on their opinion of it.


When you go to Best Buy, where are you going to find Kanye's new album ? I'm 150% positive it will be in the 'Rap' section.

And to Pancho, its obvious you have no clue what I'm talking about. I'm talking about progressing Hip Hop music to the masses. The artists you mentioned don't have a wide enough following to do that, IMO. And in fact, they only cater to one fan base, which is the fan base I lumped you into.

Which is why I said Kanye was the most progressive artist. He's been able to reach fans outside of Hip Hop on a mass scale.

I loving the 2 songs on the radio he has. I stick it to my girl.haha

He aint the greatest but the criticism he's getting is far beyond ridiculous, he's made 3 excellent albums and one album which wasn't as good but wasn't that bad either (imo). Kanye is still the **** and one of the best around.

You're contradicting yourself in the same quote. All I was saying, I hate it when people try to categorize music based on their opinion of it.


When you go to Best Buy, where are you going to find Kanye's new album ? I'm 150% positive it will be in the 'Rap' section.

And to Pancho, its obvious you have no clue what I'm talking about. I'm talking about progressing Hip Hop music to the masses. The artists you mentioned don't have a wide enough following to do that, IMO. And in fact, they only cater to one fan base, which is the fan base I lumped you into.

Which is why I said Kanye was the most progressive artist. He's been able to reach fans outside of Hip Hop on a mass scale.


Actually, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

But by far, Kanye West is Hip Hop's most progressive artist.

anyone else see anything about mainstream in this sentence?

I don't.

Progress Hiphop to the masses?

Its already pop music.

Try again because you fail every single time.


Heres a tidbit for you.

El-P has contributed productions and guest raps to albums by DJ Krush, Aesop Rock, Murs, Cage, Mr. Lif, Prefuse 73, Del tha Funkee Homosapien, Mike Ladd, The High and Mighty, Jedi Mind Tricks, Aceyalone, Atmosphere, and Techno Animal. He collaborated with Alec Empire on the first Handsome Boy Modeling School album and with Cage and Chino Moreno on the second. He was selected, along with DJ Shadow, to work on Rage Against the Machine frontman Zach de la Rocha's solo album (which never materialized). He has provided remixes for the likes of Beans (of Anti-Pop Consortium), Beck, Blackalicious, Head Automatica, Hot Hot Heat, Syd Matters, Nine Inch Nails, Push Button Objects, Rob Sonic, TV on the Radio, and Yasushilde, among others. El-P also provided the soundtrack for the graffiti film Bomb the System.[2][3]

You're contradicting yourself in the same quote. All I was saying, I hate it when people try to categorize music based on their opinion of it.


When you go to Best Buy, where are you going to find Kanye's new album ? I'm 150% positive it will be in the 'Rap' section.

Theres no contradiction. Theres other cds that i dont like that i consider to be rap. Your really dumb if you think this crap is rap. It will be in the rap section because they dont know no better. Kangays first 3 cds were rap...eh... graduation was half rap, half pop. For now, you can still call him a rap artist but 808's is not a rap album.

Kanye is definitely one of your more consistant artist in the game today. He's not afraid to try anything with his music...He's not the greatest but he's one of the best today..When it's all said and done, he'll be a top 10 or even five artist of all time..

Kanye is definitely one of your more consistant artist in the game today. He's not afraid to try anything with his music...He's not the greatest but he's one of the best today..When it's all said and done, he'll be a top 10 or even five artist of all time..

top 10 or 5? **** outta here, he never dropped a classic and never will. He came close with his 2 cds, you might be able to make a case with college dropout but the top 10 is full of rappers who dropped 3 classics. Jay-z, ghostface, Nas, ice cube, Pac, Rakim, KRS-one.....yea, i thought so. Maybe a top 5-10 producer of all time, but if you seriously think he can go down as a top 5-10 artist of all time then i might have to consider puttin you on my ignore list :lol1:

top 10 or 5? **** outta here, he never dropped a classic and never will. He came close with his 2 cds, you might be able to make a case with college dropout but the top 10 is full of rappers who dropped 3 classics. Jay-z, ghostface, Nas, ice cube, Pac, Rakim, KRS-one.....yea, i thought so. Maybe a top 5-10 producer of all time, but if you seriously think he can go down as a top 5-10 artist of all time then i might have to consider puttin you on my ignore list :lol1:
First off, fvck you and your ignore list playa....My opinion is worth more than yours around here..

Second, who in the game has dropped on a more consistant basis than Kanye? Only a hand full..name them playa!!

Third, Kanye is a musician and his job is to make music that the people want to hear..He's done just that over the years. He will be a all time great when it's al said and done..

To conclude, Kanye has dropped 3 solid albums..At least that's what the people think..This next album will define him as a pure musician because he's jumped on another level with his style..After is murdering of Curtis, how could you doubt him..

First off, fvck you and your ignore list playa....My opinion is worth more than yours around here..

Second, who in the game has dropped on a more consistant basis than Kanye? Only a hand full..name them playa!!

Third, Kanye is a musician and his job is to make music that the people want to hear..He's done just that over the years. He will be a all time great when it's al said and done..

To conclude, Kanye has dropped 3 solid albums..At least that's what the people think..This next album will define him as a pure musician because he's jumped on another level with his style..After is murdering of Curtis, how could you doubt him..

kangay tries real hard to copy jay-z but he'll never be that good. Hes a very poor mans jay-z, smh @ him swagger jackin jiggas flow. jay-z is better at everything....flow, lyrics, concepts, etc. 2nd, i dont know what you talkin about with this consistent stuff. Kangay is gradually gettin worse. 50 cent is a great business man. He knew kangay would outsell him because of his half rap half pop style. At the same time, 50 knew that beefin with kangay would boost his sales, which it did. Unfortunately im short on time so to sum things up: http://www.u-mad.org/haterz.html :lol1:

kangay tries real hard to copy jay-z but he'll never be that good. Hes a very poor mans jay-z, smh @ him swagger jackin jiggas flow. jay-z is better at everything....flow, lyrics, concepts, etc. 2nd, i dont know what you talkin about with this consistent stuff. Kangay is gradually gettin worse. 50 cent is a great business man. He knew kangay would outsell him because of his half rap half pop style. At the same time, 50 knew that beefin with kangay would boost his sales, which it did. Unfortunately im short on time so to sum things up: http://www.u-mad.org/haterz.html :lol1:
And Jay copped Biggie's style

lol Kanye being a top 5 artist of all time, he won't even be top 5 in Hiphop, let alone music period.

he's not the greatest artist. he's not the greatest mc. he's not the greatest producer. he's not the greatest hip-hop producer.

i'm %99 positive this is a joke thread, none the less, awful thread.

defintly not one of the greatest mcs...hes a great producer i think just not an mc. like someone said before not even the best mc from chicago. thats common in my opinion.

Kanye is definitely one of your more consistant artist in the game today. He's not afraid to try anything with his music...He's not the greatest but he's one of the best today..When it's all said and done, he'll be a top 10 or even five artist of all time..

Lol Kayne is no where near top 5 all-time even by mainstream standards

Not even near the top 10

Jay-z
Nas
Rakim
Tupac
Notorious BIG
Big Daddy Kane
Krs-1
Common
Scarface
Ice Cube


Can Kanye Bump anyone off of here? I doubt it and Lupe will far exceed Kayne in Greatness of the hip-hop world...

Lol Kayne is no where near top 5 all-time even by mainstream standards

Not even near the top 10

Jay-z
Nas
Rakim
Tupac
Notorious BIG
Big Daddy Kane
Krs-1
Common
Scarface
Ice Cube


Can Kanye Bump anyone off of here? I doubt it and Lupe will far exceed Kayne in Greatness of the hip-hop world...

No, he certainly can't.

But i am interested to know why it is that you view Lupe as being superior to Kanye in this regard because i can't possibly understand that.

No, he certainly can't.

But i am interested to know why it is that you view Lupe as being superior to Kanye in this regard because i can't possibly understand that.

Lyrically Lupe is far superior to Kanye and in chicago most view him all around a better MC, person, etc than kayne... He just doesn't get alot of radio play but neither does common or twista....

Lyrically Lupe is far superior to Kanye and in chicago most view him all around a better MC, person, etc than kayne... He just doesn't get alot of radio play but neither does common or twista....

I agree that lyrically Lupe far surpasses Kanye in terms of content. Lupe is a poet and linguistically he is very talented but i find that his music often lacks in passion or what some would call "life". i find it very difficult to connect with Lupe because i find his music to be impersonal overall. the content is personal but i don't FEEL anything from him. From a production standpoint...well that's not really debatable i don't think. it's almost as though Lupe thinks that his lyrical skill can compensate for average to mediocre production. i think that Kanye understands the importance of balance in this department.

And truth be told, Kanye's had some great moments both lyrically and through his production. one such moment...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNNtaH0-tgc

(minus the unnecessary added explosion noises, of course)

So, its safe to say that "morebass", carries a pur, ahem, a "man bag" just like his hero.

Lol Kayne is no where near top 5 all-time even by mainstream standards

Not even near the top 10

Jay-z
Nas
Rakim
Tupac
Notorious BIG
Big Daddy Kane
Krs-1
Common
Scarface
Ice Cube


Can Kanye Bump anyone off of here? I doubt it and Lupe will far exceed Kayne in Greatness of the hip-hop world...
When it is all said and done fool...I didn't say now jack....Read my sh!+ before you quote me,,,

No, he certainly can't.

But i am interested to know why it is that you view Lupe as being superior to Kanye in this regard because i can't possibly understand that.
You too playa....

lol Kanye being a top 5 artist of all time, he won't even be top 5 in Hiphop, let alone music period.
Keep living and you'll see playa....

Keep living and you'll see playa....


JZone>>>Kanye

When it is all said and done fool...I didn't say now jack....Read my sh!+ before you quote me,,,

okay when its all said and done who do you think kanye will be better than on the list of top 10:thinking:

artist period......especially in these times, everybody is making the same lame swag dance music while hes talking about real life......he has progressed with every album evolving with new binary sounds.....when you hear the song once you cant understand it....you have to hear it like 10 times to sonically visualize the heuristics of the situation....every album is advanced for its time they get better years later.....i heard his tour is a once in your lifetime experience too
this would be overkill, even if you were Kanye's publicity guy...

he's not the greatest artist. he's not the greatest mc. he's not the greatest producer. he's not the greatest hip-hop producer.

i'm %99 positive this is a joke thread, none the less, awful thread.
he might be the best of the "producers who should stick to producing" bunch: the Jermaine Dupri, Diddy, Dr. Dre, Timbaland group but that's ONLY if you assume he writes his own (bad) lyrics whereas Dre has a lot of stuff written for him...

he might be the best of the "producers who should stick to producing" bunch: the Jermaine Dupri, Diddy, Dr. Dre, Timbaland group but that's ONLY if you assume he writes his own (bad) lyrics whereas Dre has a lot of stuff written for him...

and for Dre having ghostwriters, he has better delivery than most producer/MCs.

I never said Divine Styler never existed. I just pointed out the fact that if you asked 10 people, even Hip Hop heads, who that artist was...I'd be surprised if 4 of them could even tell you that the person was indeed a Hip Hop artist.

My point being, its very easy to be progressive when no one is listening.

But I know you. You're the backpacking Hip Hop purist who damns everything that sells over 500 copies. The one who curses every song played on the radio and on MTV.

I like how people refer to the standard that was set back when the ghetto was pretty much the only community making and consuming Hip Hop, Backpacking. As If that standard has less street cred, and the mainstream crap that little 14 year old white chicks in idaho are dancing to is supposed to be "real" :/

Thread starter hasn't been listenting to hip hop for long, lol. All these teenie boppers think 50 Cent and P 'Somalian' Diddy are the real deal lol.

okay when its all said and done who do you think kanye will be better than on the list of top 10:thinking:
From your list below! The artist in bold

Jay-z
Nas
Rakim
Tupac
Notorious BIG
Big Daddy Kane
Krs-1
Common
Scarface
Ice Cube

I like how people refer to the standard that was set back when the ghetto was pretty much the only community making and consuming Hip Hop, Backpacking. As If that standard has less street cred, and the mainstream crap that little 14 year old white chicks in idaho are dancing to is supposed to be "real" :/


Huh ?

What 'standard' are you referring to ? And why would artists in this so called 'standard' be worried about something like street cred ?

From your list below! The artist in bold

Jay-z
Nas
Rakim
Tupac
Notorious BIG
Big Daddy Kane
Krs-1
Common
Scarface
Ice Cube


please just allow me to get this straight...
you think that KANYE WEST is going to be considered better than RAKIM, BIG DADDY KANE, and COMMON SENSE?

Absolutely not. That's ridiculous.

Kanye is up there to me, fu.ck all the haters.

Kanye is up there to me, fu.ck all the haters.


Dre
Rza
Muggs
Premier
Sermon
Marley
Pete Rock
Easy Mo Bee
DJ Quik
Hank Shocklee


Cube
KRS
Rakim
Nas
LL
Pun
Gza
BDK
KGR
Jay


easy as **** top ten list off the dome in no order.


and you're going to tell me Kanye is above those dudes in production and MCing?

"step ya game up"

Dre
Rza
Muggs
Premier
Sermon
Marley
Pete Rock
Easy Mo Bee
DJ Quik
Hank Shocklee


Cube
KRS
Rakim
Nas
LL
Pun
Gza
BDK
KGR
Jay


easy as **** top ten list off the dome in no order.


and you're going to tell me Kanye is above those dudes in production and MCing?

"step ya game up"

Different strokes for different folks. You shouldn't be questioning why someone else has someone higher then someone you like.haha. Its just it.

Different strokes for different folks. You shouldn't be questioning why someone else has someone higher then someone you like.haha. Its just it.



You're 24 with a very limited knowledge of Hiphop.

Lets just leave it at that.

You're 24 with a very limited knowledge of Hiphop.

Lets just leave it at that.



Dude, you are a ****ing lame. Arguing over someone's elses opinion, like your post on an internet boxing forum is going to somehow sway his opinion on who's music he likes. Are you really sitting there catching feelings in front of your computer screen because people don't have the same musical taste as you ?




And then accusing him of having a limited knowledge of Hip Hop based on his opinion, in which he clearly stated that it was his own personal opinion.

How would you know this based on one, one sentence post ?

Dude, you are a ****ing lame. Arguing over someone's elses opinion, like your post on an internet boxing forum is going to somehow sway his opinion on who's music he likes. Are you really sitting there catching feelings in front of your computer screen because people don't have the same musical taste as you ?




And then accusing him of having a limited knowledge of Hip Hop based on his opinion, in which he clearly stated that it was his own personal opinion.

How would you know this based on one, one sentence post ?

Versey is a cool poster but I'm going to agree with Pancho that versey has very limited Knowledge of Hip-Hop as a whole..

If He doesn't know who Ken Swift, Dj Premier, or Scheme and thinks Kayne is a top 10 rapper than he has very limited knowledge of the hip-hop culture...

Dude, you are a ****ing lame. Arguing over someone's elses opinion, like your post on an internet boxing forum is going to somehow sway his opinion on who's music he likes. Are you really sitting there catching feelings in front of your computer screen because people don't have the same musical taste as you ?




And then accusing him of having a limited knowledge of Hip Hop based on his opinion, in which he clearly stated that it was his own personal opinion.

How would you know this based on one, one sentence post ?

I'm a lame, yet you're the one who says, "by far, Kanye is the most progressive Hiphop artist".

Even when I proved you wrong, you try to change your stance to fit your agenda.

Its cool to have an opinion, but just stupid when you make broad generalizations.


Hows this for lame.


REAL Hip Hop heads know the deal.
But I know you. You're the backpacking Hip Hop purist who damns everything that sells over 500 copies. The one who curses every song played on the radio and on MTV.


Hypocrite much?

From your list below! The artist in bold

Jay-z
Nas
Rakim
Tupac
Notorious BIG
Big Daddy Kane
Krs-1
Common
Scarface
Ice Cube

***** Get that Nutt hugging **** out of this thread, Check your self and their Music before you even think about responding back to this...

:lol1::lol1::lol1: you made my day

Versey is a cool poster but I'm going to agree with Pancho that versey has very limited Knowledge of Hip-Hop as a whole..

If He doesn't know who Ken Swift, Dj Premier, or Scheme and thinks Kayne is a top 10 rapper than he has very limited knowledge of the hip-hop culture...


I'm not seeing the correlation between someone's opinion of an artist, and knowledge of hip-hop culture.




I'm a lame, yet you're the one who says, "by far, Kanye is the most progressive Hiphop artist".

Even when I proved you wrong, you try to change your stance to fit your agenda.

Its cool to have an opinion, but just stupid when you make broad generalizations.


Hows this for lame.





Hypocrite much?


While the artists you named I'm sure have all made their contributions to Hip Hop. NONE of them have done it on the grand scale that Kanye has, explaining my logic on why Kanye is the most progressive Hip Hop artist today.

For example listen to The Blueprint by Jay-Z, and to how much the soundscape changed in Hip Hop after it dropped. Kanye was a very large part of the reason for that.

I don't see how you proved me wrong. I'm still firm in my opinion.

How can you objectively determine whether one's attempts in progressing the artform were effective ?

In my opinion, the only OBJECTIVE way of doing that is by looking at how well the artists efforts were accepted by listeners. And the only way of judging that OBJECTIVELY is by looking at sales.

I'm not seeing the correlation between someone's opinion of an artist, and knowledge of hip-hop culture.


How can you not see a correlation? The more a person isn't narrow minded and listening to just a few artists of this era and views every artist of every era then they can make an educated statement on whether or a person is a top 10 or a great artist...

Like for example Boxing If I just saw Floyd Mayweather and never paid attention to past boxers and i said Floyd Mayweather P4P the greatest boxer I would be doing an injustice to the community, because i don't know all the facts.

I'm not seeing the correlation between someone's opinion of an artist, and knowledge of hip-hop culture.







While the artists you named I'm sure have all made their contributions to Hip Hop. NONE of them have done it on the grand scale that Kanye has, explaining my logic on why Kanye is the most progressive Hip Hop artist today.

For example listen to The Blueprint by Jay-Z, and to how much the soundscape changed in Hip Hop after it dropped. Kanye was a very large part of the reason for that.

I don't see how you proved me wrong. I'm still firm in my opinion.

How can you objectively determine whether one's attempts in progressing the artform were effective ?

In my opinion, the only OBJECTIVE way of doing that is by looking at how well the artists efforts were accepted by listeners. And the only way of judging that OBJECTIVELY is by looking at sales.


lol at you not knowing the Def Jux brand is worldwide.

http://www.definitivejux.net/jukies/el-p

Are you really going to say Public Enemy, you know, the group Hank Shocklee produced for, wasn't world wide?

Are you really saying that?



btw, sampling has been around forever,

so have synths.

Kanye hasn't added anything to the realm of Hiphop except fa66otry.

You're 24 with a very limited knowledge of Hiphop.

Lets just leave it at that.


I like what I hear and I also might not like what I hear also. Let me hear some stuff that is better then what I like now and I will. Until then?.......... I will continue.

I like what I hear and I also might not like what I hear also. Let me hear some stuff that is better then what I like now and I will. Until then?.......... I will continue.

Huh?


As I said, you have limited Hiphop knowledge.

Versey is a cool poster but I'm going to agree with Pancho that versey has very limited Knowledge of Hip-Hop as a whole..

If He doesn't know who Ken Swift, Dj Premier, or Scheme and thinks Kayne is a top 10 rapper than he has very limited knowledge of the hip-hop culture...

He could be top 10 to me.( In which I never said he was) That's my opinion. I'm not saying your opinion on who's better is **** cause its your opinion.


Some of you guys gotta get a grip on ppls opinions. If I said Silk the Shocker was the best rapper alive its what I FEEL. I don't think he is by the way.

Huh?


As I said, you have limited Hiphop knowledge.

So you're the HipHop Messiah? Come on now. haha. You wanna shove your opinion in ppls face then so be it, just don't expect them to believe all that ****.

So you're the HipHop Messiah? Come on now. haha. You wanna shove your opinion in ppls face then so be it, just don't expect them to believe all that ****.



Not a messiah, but much more versed in the genre to be ridiculous and say Kanye is top ten at anything Hiphop related.

Not a messiah, but much more versed in the genre to be ridiculous and say Kanye is top ten at anything Hiphop related.

Well again... I never said that but alrighty.

Well again... I never said that but alrighty.

So, what does "Kanye is up there to me", mean?

the hate is ridiculous.......i guarentee if you actually give his new album a listen beyond the first 10 seconds of each track you will like some at least

its funny the same people calling him kangay are the same people who watch jayz copy kanyes style and like camron and jim jones who made pink and tight clothes popular.......

someone earlier said he wouldnt exist in the 1990s.....you mean the same era when de la soul and tribe called quest were popular??

kanye has been cosigned by jayz, nas, rakim, krs one, mos def, common, and the list goes on

lolz

the hate is ridiculous.......i guarentee if you actually give his new album a listen beyond the first 10 seconds of each track you will like some at least

its funny the same people calling him kangay are the same people who watch jayz copy kanyes style and like camron and jim jones who made pink and tight clothes popular.......

someone earlier said he wouldnt exist in the 1990s.....you mean the same era when de la soul and tribe called quest were popular??

kanye has been cosigned by jayz, nas, rakim, krs one, mos def, common, and the list goes on

lolz


"Kanye is the greatest artist,period"

You're ridiculous.

he might be the best of the "producers who should stick to producing" bunch: the Jermaine Dupri, Diddy, Dr. Dre, Timbaland group but that's ONLY if you assume he writes his own (bad) lyrics whereas Dre has a lot of stuff written for him...

lol, and i dont even think he makes that list, somebody said that Dre's flow is better than most rappers, but most of the people who ghostwrite for him show him the delivery, so i'd keep him in the list, and bump Kanye out for this guy...

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imo Ye's gotta be writtin his own lyrics (these days atleast), did you hear his verse on 'swagger like us'?...terrible. but him writtin his own lyrics and not being fed every single line to him by a legend (as Cube to Dre) is more respectable. I'll give him top 5 Chi-Town producers though, now that i tihnk about it.

I'm not seeing the correlation between someone's opinion of an artist, and knowledge of hip-hop culture.







While the artists you named I'm sure have all made their contributions to Hip Hop. NONE of them have done it on the grand scale that Kanye has, explaining my logic on why Kanye is the most progressive Hip Hop artist today.

For example listen to The Blueprint by Jay-Z, and to how much the soundscape changed in Hip Hop after it dropped. Kanye was a very large part of the reason for that.

I don't see how you proved me wrong. I'm still firm in my opinion.

How can you objectively determine whether one's attempts in progressing the artform were effective ?

In my opinion, the only OBJECTIVE way of doing that is by looking at how well the artists efforts were accepted by listeners. And the only way of judging that OBJECTIVELY is by looking at sales.

I sincerely hope that this entire post is some kind of joke.

According to the logic of your "objective" criteria Soulja Boy> Rakim



Arguing that Kanye West is greater than Krs One, Rakim and Big Daddy Kane because of the level of his success is like arguing that Barack Obama is greater than Martin Luther King Jr.




Kanye West hasn't influenced anybody, i can't think of any rappers that try to imitate him. On the other hand, I can't think of a single rapper that dosen't imitate either Rakim, Big Daddy Kane or Krs One. These artists have contributed so much to Hip Hop that it is impossible to even copy them, the things they first introduced have simply become trademarks of the culture of Hip hop, so if you are going to rap you have to incorporate those things (it's not considered copying anymore). Besides sweaters and teddy bears i can't come up with much that West has contributed. As for production, do you know how many times the sound of Hip hop has changed? As has been mentioned Dre was a FAR more influential force as a producer than West.

*sigh* I think I understand why you had a problem with someone questioning another person's Hip hop knowledge now.

^ Please explain to me then what OBJECTIVE critera you could use to accurately gauge the success in which an audience accepts an artists efforts.

You're arguments here have all been based on your own personal opinions and subjective information, which don't hold much weight at all, being that everyone's going to have different opinions.


As far as comparing Soulja Boy to Rakim.

Apples and oranges.

When legendary artists like Big Daddy Kane, Rakim, and KRS were all in their prime, Hip Hop was not big business like it is today. Not even close. Hardly any mainstream media exposure, cross promotion with Hip Hop did not exist, and artists weren't selling out arenas around the country.

Simply put, it was a growing art form still in its infancy. Which also explains your theory on how every artists 'imitates' them. They laid the foundation for the artists of today, and today's artists took that and ran with it.




As far as Kanye West goes...

As a producer, he's helped bridge the gap between so called 'conscious hip hop' and mainstream hip hop. He along with Just Blaze totally changed the soundscape in mainstream hip hop. Just listen to the majority of the beats before and after The Blueprint dropped, and tell me you don't hear the difference. Everyone was pitching up old soul records. Sure its been done all throughout Hip Hop, but didn't become as universally accepted by the paying audience until they dropped that classic.

As an artist, he's always pushing the limits on what typical hip hop is and expanding on it. Listen to Late Registration, and please try and name a Hip Hop album with more intricate live instrumentation than that.

^ Please explain to me then what OBJECTIVE critera you could use to accurately gauge the success in which an audience accepts an artists efforts.

You're arguments here have all been based on your own personal opinions and subjective information, which don't hold much weight at all, being that everyone's going to have different opinions.


As far as comparing Soulja Boy to Rakim.

Apples and oranges.

When legendary artists like Big Daddy Kane, Rakim, and KRS were all in their prime, Hip Hop was not big business like it is today. Not even close. Hardly any mainstream media exposure, cross promotion with Hip Hop did not exist, and artists weren't selling out arenas around the country.

Simply put, it was a growing art form still in its infancy. Which also explains your theory on how every artists 'imitates' them. They laid the foundation for the artists of today, and today's artists took that and ran with it.




As far as Kanye West goes...

As a producer, he's helped bridge the gap between so called 'conscious hip hop' and mainstream hip hop. He along with Just Blaze totally changed the soundscape in mainstream hip hop. Just listen to the majority of the beats before and after The Blueprint dropped, and tell me you don't hear the difference. Everyone was pitching up old soul records. Sure its been done all throughout Hip Hop, but didn't become as universally accepted by the paying audience until they dropped that classic.

As an artist, he's always pushing the limits on what typical hip hop is and expanding on it. Listen to Late Registration, and please try and name a Hip Hop album with more intricate live instrumentation than that.


Your skirts been pulled up more times than a high school whore.

Nobody believes you.

LOL

Is that all you can come up with ?

Do you think that I care if nobody on an internet boxing forum believes me ? I don't know any of you from a hole in the wall, believe me, I'm not losing any sleep over what you think.


I'm just stating my opinion, and you're entitled to yours.


Now keep it movin, and keep betting your pretend money on fake boxing bets and posting your little posts in that pretty little fusia color in hopes of garnering more attention on this website filled with boys. LOL. Lame.

LOL

Is that all you can come up with ?

Do you think that I care if nobody on an internet boxing forum believes me ? I don't know any of you from a hole in the wall, believe me, I'm not losing any sleep over what you think.


I'm just stating my opinion, and you're entitled to yours.


Now keep it movin, and keep betting your pretend money on fake boxing bets. LOL. Lame.


All I can come up with?

Theres about 10 pages of material people have come up with to counter your ridiculous claims?

How many times do you have to be exposed as a know nothing?

^ Please explain to me then what OBJECTIVE critera you could use to accurately gauge the success in which an audience accepts an artists efforts.

You're arguments here have all been based on your own personal opinions and subjective information, which don't hold much weight at all, being that everyone's going to have different opinions.


As far as comparing Soulja Boy to Rakim.

Apples and oranges.

When legendary artists like Big Daddy Kane, Rakim, and KRS were all in their prime, Hip Hop was not big business like it is today. Not even close. Hardly any mainstream media exposure, cross promotion with Hip Hop did not exist, and artists weren't selling out arenas around the country.

Simply put, it was a growing art form still in its infancy. Which also explains your theory on how every artists 'imitates' them. They laid the foundation for the artists of today, and today's artists took that and ran with it.




As far as Kanye West goes...

As a producer, he's helped bridge the gap between so called 'conscious hip hop' and mainstream hip hop. He along with Just Blaze totally changed the soundscape in mainstream hip hop. Just listen to the majority of the beats before and after The Blueprint dropped, and tell me you don't hear the difference. Everyone was pitching up old soul records. Sure its been done all throughout Hip Hop, but didn't become as universally accepted by the paying audience until they dropped that classic.

As an artist, he's always pushing the limits on what typical hip hop is and expanding on it. Listen to Late Registration, and please try and name a Hip Hop album with more intricate live instrumentation than that.


Comparing Rakim to Soulja within the context of your little criteria is not comparing apples and oranges. Remember, we are comparing impact, we are not talking about their style of Rap or content. If more sales in general equals more impact on hip hop culture, then Soulja Boy must have had more impact on Hip hop culture than Rakim, it is a simple deduction.

Give me an example of one personal opinion I offered?


The innovations of the three artists mentioned and the role of those innovations in hip hop as a whole is an objective fact. You have given us nothing to support your claim that Kanye West has had the most impact on Hip Hop as a Rapper, and very little to support the claim when it comes to him as a producer. "Pitching up old Soul records"? ummm, are you kidding me? James Brown has been called one of the fathers of Hip Hop because of how much he was sampled early on. As I said before, Hip Hop production has changed and evolved all throughout it's history. `

If what you mean to say is not that Kanye has had more of an impact on Hip hop culture, but more of an impact on people around the world then i might agree as long as you further qualified that to say a "direct" impact. Saying that Kanye West has had a more significant impact on Hip Hop culture than Rakim, Krs One, and Big Daddy Kane is really quite ridiculous and actually dosen't even deserve to be discussed.

^ Point taken. I guess I didn't clarify myself well enough. I never said he was Hip Hop's most progressive artist of all time. Obviously, the pioneers mentioned along with several others would have much more of an impact on the culture, as they were the ones responsible for shaping it in its infancy.

At this point in time, in this era, Kanye west is doing more to progress Hip Hop than any other artist. In an era full of Soulja Boy's, there are not many artists who are trying to expand the horizons of the culture and do so with any type of commercial success.

I feel that Kanye is doing this successfullymore than any other artist today, period. Which is why I stand firm in my opinion that Kanye West is Hip Hop's most progressive artist.


As far as your comment about James Brown and sampling. No need for the history lesson.

I only mentioned that because that album, The Blueprint, totally changed the soundscape of mainstream Hip Hop at the time.

^ Point taken. I guess I didn't clarify myself well enough. I never said he was Hip Hop's most progressive artist of all time. Obviously, the pioneers mentioned along with several others would have much more of an impact on the culture, as they were the ones responsible for shaping it in its infancy.

At this point in time, in this era, Kanye west is doing more to progress Hip Hop than any other artist. In an era full of Soulja Boy's, there are not many artists who are trying to expand the horizons of the culture and do so with any type of commercial success.

I feel that Kanye is doing this successfullymore than any other artist today, period. Which is why I stand firm in my opinion that Kanye West is Hip Hop's most progressive artist.


As far as your comment about James Brown and sampling. No need for the history lesson.

I only mentioned that because that album, The Blueprint, totally changed the soundscape of mainstream Hip Hop at the time.



What is commercial success to you?

lets not forget that kanyes videos always set a bar in the industry....he doesnt follow the stereotypical videos.....and they always seem to get better when he first started they were cheap low budget flicks now they are cinematic masterpieces

I don't even consider 808s and Heartbreak a rap album .. it's pop and Kanye himself has pretty much said so. Besides Wayne and Jeezys feature it's not really hip hop. I like it none the less and think its dope.

As far as his producing goes, the guy has some great records under his belt and helped bring one of the dopest mc's on the planet back from the dead .. Common. He has done great work for a ton of artists and is defintly one of the dopest producers in hip hop history. I can't go out and name a "best producer ever" (although Preemo is damn close for me) everyone is different and always pushing the bar. I have to say I like his new record and continue to feel his music.

On a sidenote. Damn Kanye is heartbroken.

Kanye is nowhere near the greatest anything, period. People forget music that came out just 10 to 15 years ago.

What is commercial success to you?



Commercial success in music is basically people on a large scale, going out and being willing to pay their hard earned money for your album/songs.

I emphasize large scale because commercial is defined as: Involved in work that is intended for the mass market


How many Hip Hop artists today can you honestly say have had the type of success that Kanye has,commercially, without sacrificing their musical integrity. (For those who have any to begin with)


His success isn't based on songs like 'Candy Shop' or 'Soulja Boy', which is why I say he is doing more to progress Hip Hop than any other artist, couple this with the enormous amount of success he's had and there are not many who even come close.

Commercial success in music is basically people on a large scale, going out and being willing to pay their hard earned money for your album/songs.

I emphasize large scale because commercial is defined as: Involved in work that is intended for the mass market


How many Hip Hop artists today can you honestly say have had the type of success that Kanye has,commercially, without sacrificing their musical integrity. (For those who have any to begin with)


His success isn't based on songs like 'Candy Shop' or 'Soulja Boy', which is why I say he is doing more to progress Hip Hop than any other artist, couple this with the enormous amount of success he's had and there are not many who even come close.


Like I've said already, El-P, Chuck D, KRS 1, Ice Cube, Cypress Hill, etc etc. I can go on all day with names. These acts are and have been in retail stores nation and worldwide. They're aren't mom and pop acts. Get that through your head.

These are people who have toured and have fans worldwide, without sacrificing their musical integrity.

Just because Kanye is doing some fa66y homo **** doesn't mean hes the most progressive. I guess by your estimations, Boy George was progressive.


I get that you're easily impressed by temper tantrums from the guy, but I wouldn't call that impressive or progressive.

Like I've said already, El-P, Chuck D, KRS 1, Ice Cube, Cypress Hill, etc etc. I can go on all day with names. These acts are and have been in retail stores nation and worldwide. They're aren't mom and pop acts. Get that through your head.

These are people who have toured and have fans worldwide, without sacrificing their musical integrity.

Just because Kanye is doing some fa66y homo **** doesn't mean hes the most progressive. I guess by your estimations, Boy George was progressive.


I get that you're easily impressed by temper tantrums from the guy, but I wouldn't call that impressive or progressive.

elp is nerd rap....chuck d krs was only good in the 90s.....i like ice cube but he sold out thats why common dissed him way ahead of time....cypress hill released that gaabage rock album in 2000

your just jealous thats why you call him a homo when other rappers are busy wearing tight dickhugger jeans

elp is nerd rap....chuck d krs was only good in the 90s.....i like ice cube but he sold out thats why common dissed him way ahead of time....cypress hill released that gaabage rock album in 2000

your just jealous thats why you call him a homo when other rappers are busy wearing tight dickhugger jeans

Thats all I need to know about you and your extremely limited knowledge of Hiphop.

Thats all I need to know about you and your extremely limited knowledge of Hiphop.
Your really selling that El-P is a "commercial" act.. I can agree with Cypress and Cube not not El-P.

As far as "selling out" Ice Cube pretty much has accomplished that feat on his own. Now I don't really care who likes and dislikes any album because its all personal preference but I think the point these guys are trying to get across is no album right now from a hip hop or pop artist sounds quite like 808s and Heartbreak. He pushed 450,000 copies last week.. with a **** economy, piracy at an all time high and this being a huge experimental album.. those numbers are pretty solid for commercial success.

Like I've said already, El-P, Chuck D, KRS 1, Ice Cube, Cypress Hill, etc etc. I can go on all day with names. These acts are and have been in retail stores nation and worldwide. They're aren't mom and pop acts. Get that through your head.

These are people who have toured and have fans worldwide, without sacrificing their musical integrity.

Just because Kanye is doing some fa66y homo **** doesn't mean hes the most progressive. I guess by your estimations, Boy George was progressive.


I get that you're easily impressed by temper tantrums from the guy, but I wouldn't call that impressive or progressive.


I never said that Kanye was the only one doing it. I just said he was doing the most !

Get that through your head !

And why do you keep bringing up Kanye's non music related tirades ? I don't give a flying **** about what he does away from the recording studio. Obviously you do, enough that you had to bring it up to support your argument, and cement the fact that you just don't like the guy.


Also, **** being in a retail store sitting on the shelf ! Every one of Kanye's albums is certified platinum plus, and he does it on the strength of songs like 'Jesus Walks', and 'All Falls Down'.


Easily put, Kanye, musically is taking chances not many commercially successful artists are taking and doing damn well at it. Whether you hate it or love it, there isn't anything out there that sounds like it. And guess what, people are feeling it, which is the ultimate goal for any artist !

Now stop worrying about what kind of shoulder bag the man is wearing and put down your Haterade.

I never said that Kanye was the only one doing it. I just said he was doing the most !

Get that through your head !

And why do you keep bringing up Kanye's non music related tirades ? I don't give a flying **** about what he does away from the recording studio. Obviously you do, enough that you had to bring it up to support your argument, and cement the fact that you just don't like the guy.


Also, **** being in a retail store sitting on the shelf ! Every one of Kanye's albums is certified platinum plus, and he does it on the strength of songs like 'Jesus Walks', and 'All Falls Down'.


Easily put, Kanye, musically is taking chances not many commercially successful artists are taking and doing damn well at it. Whether you hate it or love it, there isn't anything out there that sounds like it. And guess what, people are feeling it, which is the ultimate goal for any artist !

Now stop worrying about what kind of shoulder bag the man is wearing and put down your Haterade.
No, Kanye is not doing it "the most".

btw, ever heard of Lenny Kravitz?

Just say you have a man crush on the dude.


El-P is not a commercial act per se, but you don't get a world wide audience by being unknown.

So basically, what I get out of you, is that you're an MTV clown.

so he's better then Big L now?


please do this



1. Get a cinder block

2. get about a 6ft rope

3. Tie one end around the cinder block

4. Tie the other around your neck

5. Throw the cinder block of a ****ing bridge

thanx :bye:

chances are you heard of big l after he died.......then decided to bring him up as the greatest because you dont like the new generation of hiphop fans......many legends of hiphop love kanye.......your just being nerds.....if planet rock came out today you would say it wasnt hiphop......