I see some people on here discrediting the win by Lesnar over Couture because Lesnar is basically an amature compaired to Couture.

A guy with 4 fights under his belt should never be able to beat a fighter like Couture right?

Well this is the way I see it, both pro and con. It's been discussed on here more than a few times about MMA vs boxing. We have all gone through that argument 1000X.

The thing that I have said from the beginning is that, MMA is "fighting", boxing is not. I once said on here that in MMA, strength, speed and size matter more in MMA than in boxing by far. Boxing is based on more pure skill and something like this would never happen in the sport of boxing....ever. You would never see a guy who has litteraly 4 fights under his belt win a heavyweight title, just won't happen.

Brock should have never beaten Couture, not in a million years. I understand that Couture is 45 years old and Lesnar is young and in his prime but size and strength mattered the most when it counted.

Let's get something straight, I'm not discrediting MMA, not in the least. I have grown to love the sport. As matter of fact, I actually bought the UFC payper view, which was my first one ever purchased.

In MMA, no matter how skilled you may be, strength, speed and size matter most and that's ok. I enjoy MMA because it is the closest thing to real fighting that you can get. It didn't matter that Couture was much better on his feet and on the ground because once Lesnar got on top of him, he was too big and too strong to try and move, let alone counter.

I think that Lesnar got a title shot much to early and I do think he will lose once he fights someone younger and more skilled than him. (and there's plenty of them out there) but the fact he won the title in just his 5th fight shows the impact of PHYSICALITY has on MMA.

Agreed. It shows how Size and Strength does matter, as well as the degree of different between Weight Classes when compared to other sports. It's why the early open weight tournaments were turned upside down when a smaller competitor beat a larger one. Adds a degree of reality to it, IMO. The smaller guy in a street fight is always an underdog, but what MMA adds to everyone's chances of winning is just that, chance. Everyone has a chance to win in MMA. It's not like boxing, where the underdog almost always loses and the champion almost always wins. Or Football, or Baseball, or Hockey. In MMA you'll always have a chance for a punch or a submission.

PS: You into cars? I've noticed your last two avatars have some nice low riders on them. I drive a '74 El Camino, if you want some pics hit me up. It's my dream car and I've been working on it for the past year.

He should have had to prove himself more but 4 fights in MMA isn't the same as it is in boxing.
4 MMA fights at UFC level is more like 20 pro boxing matches.
You won't see many mma fighters with 50 pro fights and even less that are 20-0 so they have to rush the big name guy and get him in the spotlight as soon as they can.

it's not fair, it's not right but whatever.
I rather see a NCAA champ get the shot than some 4 fight kid from The Ultimate Fighter.

I agree! Couture did all he could but the size and strength of Lesnar should up big time. I didn't see the Mir fight but for the life of me I can't see how he beat the beast in Brock Lesnar. I think when he took Couture to the ground and pushed him into the cage it took every ounce of strength he had left to get back to his feet. From there it was downhill.

Hey did you guys see Faber get knocked out on WEC? That **** caught me by surprise! Don't mean to change the subject but I thought the kid was unstoppable.

something lost here, is the fact that boxing does much more protecting their talent, look at records of oppents at the start of career, look at all the fluff fights boxers are afforded. I think this has some to do with it.

dont get me wrong, i love both boxing and mma. I do wish boxing would be a little less corrupt with its record building and paper champs.

If being big was Randy's problem, then Sylvia or Gonzaga would be holding the belt right now.

Randy had plans for the mass. If was just about power and size, Randy would have had him beat. The problem with his plan though was that he miscalculated Brock's reach and forgot to factor in his speed. And he got caught. It's also apparent that Couture has no answers for pro-wrestlers. The aggressiveness they exert is totally alien to him.

lesnar outweighed couture by like 40 pounds.that's a crazy amount of weight.

Hey did you guys see Faber get knocked out on WEC? That **** caught me by surprise! Don't mean to change the subject but I thought the kid was unstoppable.

he got to cute.and it wasn't outcold.he just got caught inventing some ****.i still say he's one of the best p4p fighters in mma.

he got to cute.and it wasn't outcold.he just got caught inventing some ****.i still say he's one of the best p4p fighters in mma.Yeah, I didn't mean out cold but he would have been if he took 1 or 2 more punches to the head without an answer. I agree he is one of the best but dude saw that elbow coming the whole way and timed him perfectly with counter right hand.

lesnar outweighed couture by like 40 pounds.that's a crazy amount of weight.

Timmeh and Gonzaga outweighed him too.

Agreed. It shows how Size and Strength does matter, as well as the degree of different between Weight Classes when compared to other sports. It's why the early open weight tournaments were turned upside down when a smaller competitor beat a larger one. Adds a degree of reality to it, IMO. The smaller guy in a street fight is always an underdog, but what MMA adds to everyone's chances of winning is just that, chance. Everyone has a chance to win in MMA. It's not like boxing, where the underdog almost always loses and the champion almost always wins. Or Football, or Baseball, or Hockey. In MMA you'll always have a chance for a punch or a submission.

PS: You into cars? I've noticed your last two avatars have some nice low riders on them. I drive a '74 El Camino, if you want some pics hit me up. It's my dream car and I've been working on it for the past year.

Oh yea I love older rides. i actually have had quite a few. I had a 66' Impala, 70 Impala and now own a 96' Impala.

The car you see is a Continental, it's my dream ride. El Camino's are nice too, what are you putting in it?

If being big was Randy's problem, then Sylvia or Gonzaga would be holding the belt right now.

Randy had plans for the mass. If was just about power and size, Randy would have had him beat. The problem with his plan though was that he miscalculated Brock's reach and forgot to factor in his speed. And he got caught. It's also apparent that Couture has no answers for pro-wrestlers. The aggressiveness they exert is totally alien to him.

Your right but even when Randy was on the floor with him, Lesnar's strength was way too much for him.

Lesnar has some pedigree coming into MMA. If someone like Kimbo Slice had won a major belt then fair enough but this is very different.

Oh yea I love older rides. i actually have had quite a few. I had a 66' Impala, 70 Impala and now own a 96' Impala.

The car you see is a Continental, it's my dream ride. El Camino's are nice too, what are you putting in it?

I've got a 350 4 Barrel with the Edelbrock carb and head in it, but I've got the space and bracing for a 7.4L 454 Big Block that we've taken out of a 71 Corvette over the summer. Gonna slap that bad boy in this weekend and hopefully all goes well, cross your fingers for me.

Straight Pipes, by the way. Can't do open headers with the 350 4 Barrel or the 454 Big Block though, because I'll be getting uneven acceleration after 3k RPMs. Hitting the secondaries too early with too much throttle and it dumps the fuel in the pots. It's loud enough with the 5.7L 350 in it and I couldn't imagine how loud it'd be with open headers and I would never run open headers with the 454, because I'd probably blow ear drums.

Glossless black paint, it's got some rough spots and scratches but I won't have the money after fitting the big block and buying the new parts for it. Interior is pretty mint, I've got some fat M&H's in the back for extra grip.

If being big was Randy's problem, then Sylvia or Gonzaga would be holding the belt right now.

Randy had plans for the mass. If was just about power and size, Randy would have had him beat. The problem with his plan though was that he miscalculated Brock's reach and forgot to factor in his speed. And he got caught. It's also apparent that Couture has no answers for pro-wrestlers. The aggressiveness they exert is totally alien to him.

I thought Randy was doing ok until he decided to trade in the middle of the ring. Brock might've won the first round, but I thought Randy was pretty much nullifying his attacks and probably could've won a more disciplined fight, but when they started trading I pretty much saw flashes of Chuck Liddell.

Lesnar has some pedigree coming into MMA. If someone like Kimbo Slice had won a major belt then fair enough but this is very different.

I completely agree. Also, wrestlers have a pretty good track record of jumping into the deep water right away. For instance, Couture won the UFC title in his 4th fight; Mark Coleman basically faced top-notch competition from his debut; and-perhaps most impressively-Dan Henderson debut by winning the '97 Brazil Open, then knocked off Allan Goes and Carlos Newton in one night at UFC 17, then won two fights in a one night to qualify for the Rings King of Kings tournament of '99, where he would go on to defeat Gilbert Yvel, Big Nog, and 'Babalu' in a single night to capture the tournament honors. Henderson then went on to have a successful run in pride-where he simultaneously held titles in both the LHW and MW divisions-before ultimately returning to the UFC, where he can soon be seen demolishing Jim Kerry's stunt double.

Timmeh and Gonzaga outweighed him too.

they're nothing like lesnar, both are slow and less agressive than lesnar. brock knows how to use his strength and size much better than they do. he donked konged randy's head

they're nothing like lesnar, both are slow and less agressive than lesnar. brock knows how to use his strength and size much better than they do. he donked konged randy's head

Which means Brock used SKILL to beat Randy. It takes skills to be able to run fast and grapple and overall build your atleticism, to use your tools to your advantage. You guys are just claiming that Brock won cuz he's to big, Didnt Frank Mir just beat him in under a minute and a half 2 fights ago? You say "well he's improved since then" which is a cover up for "he has gained skills since then." Size did not beat Couture, in case you didnt notice he got up from most of Brocks takedowns, it was Brock's striking that put out Couture. Stop this BS that he's too big and he needs to be in his own weight class. If thats the case tell Randy's overrated a$$ to drop to Light Heavyweight where he can get knocked out again and u guys can finally stop using excuses

Which means Brock used SKILL to beat Randy. It takes skills to be able to run fast and grapple and overall build your atleticism, to use your tools to your advantage. You guys are just claiming that Brock won cuz he's to big, Didnt Frank Mir just beat him in under a minute and a half 2 fights ago? You say "well he's improved since then" which is a cover up for "he has gained skills since then." Size did not beat Couture, in case you didnt notice he got up from most of Brocks takedowns, it was Brock's striking that put out Couture. Stop this BS that he's too big and he needs to be in his own weight class. If thats the case tell Randy's overrated a$$ to drop to Light Heavyweight where he can get knocked out again and u guys can finally stop using excuses

Skill? Lesnar hit him with a haymaker over the top that didn't even hit him flush, it hit him ion the top of the head.....lol

Then started pounding on him like he was a gorilla...

Skill? Lesnar hit him with a haymaker over the top that didn't even hit him flush, it hit him ion the top of the head.....lol

Then started pounding on him like he was a gorilla...

Um the overhand is a form of a punch that is taught, and that gorilla pounding is a form of ground and pound that Randy Couture himself has used many times as well as Mike Brown who beat Urijah Faber, and Junior Dos Santos who beat Fabricio Werdum, Randy lost FAIR AND SQUARE

Um the overhand is a form of a punch that is taught, and that gorilla pounding is a form of ground and pound that Randy Couture himself has used many times as well as Mike Brown who beat Urijah Faber, and Junior Dos Santos who beat Fabricio Werdum, Randy lost FAIR AND SQUARE

Dice, come on man.. The dude ain't very technical.

Dice, come on man.. The dude ain't very technical.

I'm not saying he is but he's more technical then people give him credit for, there have been plenty of big men in MMA and they have all punched. He aint no wizard but to beat Couture, its gonna take some skill either that or overrated Randy has a bad chin then cuz Brock hit Mir and Herring cleaner and they aint get knocked out

I thought Randy was doing ok until he decided to trade in the middle of the ring. Brock might've won the first round, but I thought Randy was pretty much nullifying his attacks and probably could've won a more disciplined fight, but when they started trading I pretty much saw flashes of Chuck Liddell.


agree 100%. i called it that Randy would try to neutralize and wear out Brock in the 1st two rounds and take some mean punishment for it. course i didn't call the punishment actually giving Brock a win...

but that's all Randy could do. unfortunately he had to swing a little bit with Brock to wear him out. he couldn't just hold him up against the cage the whole time because he was spending just as much, if not MORE, energy in keeping Brock still. right when round 2 started Brock was already drenched in sweat and was showing a few minor signs of fatigue. if Randy hadn't gotten caught with that shot then i still think he would've taken him how i predicted but it was a dangerous risk that didn't work out for him this time.

unfortunately for Brock though, i don't see him taking out Nog. he'll get pretzled up pretty quick.

Um the overhand is a form of a punch that is taught, and that gorilla pounding is a form of ground and pound that Randy Couture himself has used many times as well as Mike Brown who beat Urijah Faber, and Junior Dos Santos who beat Fabricio Werdum, Randy lost FAIR AND SQUARE

I know what an overhand right is and I know what hammer fist punches are. You just said he beat him with skill and there wasn't much skill to that. He just threw the right, barely landed it but because Couture is so punch drunk and Lesnar is so strong, it knocked him down.

Then he jumps on him and begins to pound him with hammer fists.

All I'm saying is, he didn't win because of skill, he won because he's younger, stronger and landed a half ass punch that happened to hurt a 45 year old man.

But yes, he won fair and square.

I know what an overhand right is and I know what hammer fist punches are. You just said he beat him with skill and there wasn't much skill to that. He just threw the right, barely landed it but because Couture is so punch drunk and Lesnar is so strong, it knocked him down.

Then he jumps on him and begins to pound him with hammer fists.

All I'm saying is, he didn't win because of skill, he won because he's younger, stronger and landed a half ass punch that happened to hurt a 45 year old man.

But yes, he won fair and square.

i think he won with pure aggressiveness and killer instinct, but he displayed skill throughout the fight. Randy tried to take his back in the first round, Lensar countered beautifully and got Couture back on the ground. Lesnar also managed to stay off his back

I know what an overhand right is and I know what hammer fist punches are. You just said he beat him with skill and there wasn't much skill to that. He just threw the right, barely landed it but because Couture is so punch drunk and Lesnar is so strong, it knocked him down.

Then he jumps on him and begins to pound him with hammer fists.

All I'm saying is, he didn't win because of skill, he won because he's younger, stronger and landed a half ass punch that happened to hurt a 45 year old man.

But yes, he won fair and square.

No doubt we both entitled to opinions. Of course age gon play a factor but i'm just a bit riled up cuz even tho I aint a fan, you gotta show props where its due.

I see some people on here discrediting the win by Lesnar over Couture because Lesnar is basically an amature compaired to Couture.

A guy with 4 fights under his belt should never be able to beat a fighter like Couture right?

Well this is the way I see it, both pro and con. It's been discussed on here more than a few times about MMA vs boxing. We have all gone through that argument 1000X.

The thing that I have said from the beginning is that, MMA is "fighting", boxing is not. I once said on here that in MMA, strength, speed and size matter more in MMA than in boxing by far. Boxing is based on more pure skill and something like this would never happen in the sport of boxing....ever. You would never see a guy who has litteraly 4 fights under his belt win a heavyweight title, just won't happen.

Brock should have never beaten Couture, not in a million years. I understand that Couture is 45 years old and Lesnar is young and in his prime but size and strength mattered the most when it counted.

Let's get something straight, I'm not discrediting MMA, not in the least. I have grown to love the sport. As matter of fact, I actually bought the UFC payper view, which was my first one ever purchased.

In MMA, no matter how skilled you may be, strength, speed and size matter most and that's ok. I enjoy MMA because it is the closest thing to real fighting that you can get. It didn't matter that Couture was much better on his feet and on the ground because once Lesnar got on top of him, he was too big and too strong to try and move, let alone counter.

I think that Lesnar got a title shot much to early and I do think he will lose once he fights someone younger and more skilled than him. (and there's plenty of them out there) but the fact he won the title in just his 5th fight shows the impact of PHYSICALITY has on MMA.

Great post!:fing02: I find myself saying that often when reading your posts.

Skill? Lesnar hit him with a haymaker over the top that didn't even hit him flush, it hit him ion the top of the head.....lol

Then started pounding on him like he was a gorilla...

I know what an overhand right is and I know what hammer fist punches are. You just said he beat him with skill and there wasn't much skill to that. He just threw the right, barely landed it but because Couture is so punch drunk and Lesnar is so strong, it knocked him down.

Then he jumps on him and begins to pound him with hammer fists.

All I'm saying is, he didn't win because of skill, he won because he's younger, stronger and landed a half ass punch that happened to hurt a 45 year old man.

But yes, he won fair and square.

LOL, lesnar looks like a white gorilla. when he grounds and pounds somebody it looks like he's donkey konging on their head. this time around, lesnar made a lot less rookie mistakes, he let randy make the mistake of thinking he could stand and trade with brock. Nog will submit brock from the bottom

Ironically Couture won the UFC HW championship
in only his 4th fight.

Great post!:fing02: I find myself saying that often when reading your posts.

Ditto.....

Lesnar did not win on the ground by just being stronger and flailing away. He hit Randy with a shot that put him on his back, jumped on him and took side control, and then dropped hammer fists down. That's MMA 101.

He got the dominant position on the ground not through strength, but by landing a good shot on his feet. And when in side control knees to the body and hammer fists to the head are the best strikes to use.

He also was tight enough in side control to keep Randy from regaining guard. His BJJ is getting better, and he is definately a force to be reckoned with.

Lesnar did not win on the ground by just being stronger and flailing away. He hit Randy with a shot that put him on his back, jumped on him and took side control, and then dropped hammer fists down. That's MMA 101.

He got the dominant position on the ground not through strength, but by landing a good shot on his feet. And when in side control knees to the body and hammer fists to the head are the best strikes to use.

He also was tight enough in side control to keep Randy from regaining guard. His BJJ is getting better, and he is definately a force to be reckoned with.

Well, I understand that's MMA 101 but even the commentators were saying that Randy was doing everything right and had much better technique but SIZE and STRENGTH were too much for him to overcome.

Even Randy himself after the fight said, "what can I say, he's a big SOB."

Yes Lesnar has been schooled in the game but let's not get carried away. It was a glancing blow that knocked Randy down, not a thing of beauty and when he jumped on him, he just rained down hammer fists. He never attempted a submission to end the fight, he was using brute strength to hit his opponent like a caveman.

Size and strength won this fight for Lesnar...

Size, strength and the fact that Randy looks like he belongs in a morgue won Brock this fight. Time to retire IMO.

BTW, Nogueira doesn't have to win the fight on the ground. There is no way Brock can beat Nogueira standing up, either.

He had a size and strength advantage, but it was technique that landed that right hand. It may have looked glancing, but he hit Randy in a good enough spot to put him down and hurt him.

As for hitting instead of going for a submission, that shows Lesnar is smart. His submission skills are not up to par with most UFC guys, so he just kept striking. Also, going for a submission often means risking losing a dominant position.

FYI, I felt Randy won Round 1. Lesnar just made the right adjustments and ended up winning the fight.