Who is the greatest Mexican fighter of all time? [Archive]

jabsRstiff

11-08-2004, 11:12 AM

Yory Boy Campas was 56-0 with 50KOs when he stepped up and fought Trinidad. Thats a mighty impressive record but it doesn't mean he was great. Chavez might not even be top 5 as good as he was at 130 and 135. Salvadore Sanchez is top 2, his best wins annihilate Chavez's despite the short career. Mexico have had a lot of top fighters, Chavez sure as hell wasn't the best of all them.

Chavez dominated 130.....destroyed Rosario at 135....then went up to Jr. Welter & dominated there.

Sanchez's biggest fights were over a Jr. Feather (Gomez).....a defenseless slugger (Lopez)....& a FUTURE great, substitute 13-fight "veteran" - Azumah Nelson.

Salvador Sanchez had HALF the career that Chavez did.

Sanchez's early death has lead to him becoming one of the most overrated fighters in history.

Do any of you know how ordinary he looked in HALF of his defenses ?
If you didn't go to Sal, he struggled.
Please...see his fights with - Pat Ford, Ruben Olivares, Pat Cowdell, Rocky Garcia...for proof.

Lefthookhappy19

11-09-2004, 03:50 PM

Ordinary? You are aware thats what Whitaker, the best fighter Chavez ever faced made him look and Taylor did for a long time. Sanchez greatness is beyond despute, Chavez doesn't come close to him. Quality over quantity, you know that surely? Rosario? Big hitter, good fighter, but still not a patch on Gomez. I don't hate Chavez, certainly not, but Sal was greater.

jabsRstiff

11-09-2004, 03:59 PM

Sanchez never faced anyone close to the Whitaker & Taylor that Chavez faced...

Chavez was made to look less than perfect by two Lb4Lbers...
Sanchez was made to look ordinary, by ORDINARY fighters.

Lefthookhappy19

11-09-2004, 04:26 PM

Chavez dominated 130.....destroyed Rosario at 135....then went up to Jr. Welter & dominated there.

Sanchez's biggest fights were over a Jr. Feather (Gomez).....a defenseless slugger (Lopez)....& a FUTURE great, substitute 13-fight "veteran" - Azumah Nelson.

Salvador Sanchez had HALF the career that Chavez did.

Sanchez's early death has lead to him becoming one of the most overrated fighters in history.

Do any of you know how ordinary he looked in HALF of his defenses ?
If you didn't go to Sal, he struggled.
Please...see his fights with - Pat Ford, Ruben Olivares, Pat Cowdell, Rocky Garcia...for proof.

Olivares? I wasn't aware that they fought.

Calling Lopez a defensless slugger is just stupid, one of the biggest punchers in featherweight history with the biggest right hand. Defensless = Meldrick Taylor. What matters with Sanchez is that against the best he fought the best. You discredit Sanchez for fighting down to his opponents level and winning. Along with fighting brilliant and winning when it really mattered in the big fights against future all time greats.

Chavez beats up and looks good stopping lesser fighters but then losses when he actually fights a great and you give Chavez more credit? Thats some twisted logic. Pernell was not in great shape and above his best weight, you know this? Chavez is usually credited as being closer to his prime at 140 and he lost, some of his best wins where there.Is Meldrick Taylor a P4P'er? Yes maybe at the time but he always look vulnerable and took lots of shots. Gomez was a huge favourite over Sanchez and was expected to run him over. Chavez could be outboxed and made to look ordinary so please stop using that word and Sanchez in the same sentence.

jabsRstiff

11-10-2004, 06:53 AM

Olivares? I wasn't aware that they fought.

Calling Lopez a defensless slugger is just stupid, one of the biggest punchers in featherweight history with the biggest right hand. Defensless = Meldrick Taylor. What matters with Sanchez is that against the best he fought the best. You discredit Sanchez for fighting down to his opponents level and winning. Along with fighting brilliant and winning when it really mattered in the big fights against future all time greats.

Chavez beats up and looks good stopping lesser fighters but then losses when he actually fights a great and you give Chavez more credit? Thats some twisted logic. Pernell was not in great shape and above his best weight, you know this? Chavez is usually credited as being closer to his prime at 140 and he lost, some of his best wins where there.Is Meldrick Taylor a P4P'er? Yes maybe at the time but he always look vulnerable and took lots of shots. Gomez was a huge favourite over Sanchez and was expected to run him over. Chavez could be outboxed and made to look ordinary so please stop using that word and Sanchez in the same sentence.

I meant Ruben CASTILLO ! Sorry.

You need to not get so insulted. That's why Sanchez has become overrated.
Because of his death, it's as if he's above criticism.

I'm telling you, after the Gomez fight, he was looking kinda ordinary.

You don't know what you're talking about when you're speaking of Meldrick Taylor.
When he & Chavez fought, Mel was, at least, in everyone's top 5, lb4lb.
Do you know that he DEMOLISHED Buddy McGirt ? Well, he did, back when Buddy was a TWO-ARMED fighter, & fighting at his peak.
Taylor also mopped up John Wesly Meekins, a guy who was thought to be a future superstar.

Chavez RUINED Taylor....& the flaws you saw in Taylor, you saw AFTER their fight.
I'm sorry....Meldrick Taylor was a better fighter than the Lopez & Gomez that Sanchez beat.

Gomez was a 122lber with a history of slacking off in training.

Listen, bro.....I think Sanchez was a special, great fighter.
But, I saw both he & Chavez in their primes.....& Chavez was the better fighter. He also accomplished far more than did Sanchez.

The romanticizing of Sanchez has made him overrated, however.

oldgringo

11-10-2004, 11:24 AM

I meant Ruben CASTILLO ! Sorry.

You need to not get so insulted. That's why Sanchez has become overrated.
Because of his death, it's as if he's above criticism.

I'm telling you, after the Gomez fight, he was looking kinda ordinary.

You don't know what you're talking about when you're speaking of Meldrick Taylor.
When he & Chavez fought, Mel was, at least, in everyone's top 5, lb4lb.
Do you know that he DEMOLISHED Buddy McGirt ? Well, he did, back when Buddy was a TWO-ARMED fighter, & fighting at his peak.
Taylor also mopped up John Wesly Meekins, a guy who was thought to be a future superstar.

Chavez RUINED Taylor....& the flaws you saw in Taylor, you saw AFTER their fight.
I'm sorry....Meldrick Taylor was a better fighter than the Lopez & Gomez that Sanchez beat.

Gomez was a 122lber with a history of slacking off in training.

Listen, bro.....I think Sanchez was a special, great fighter.
But, I saw both he & Chavez in their primes.....& Chavez was the better fighter. He also accomplished far more than did Sanchez.

The romanticizing of Sanchez has made him overrated, however.

Exactly. Sanchez may have had a great career had he not passed and he certainly was on the right road to accomplishing this. But to say that Chavez may not even be top 5 is insane. Their careers should not be compared. Chavez ruled his divisions with and iron fist until he ran into Whitaker...a top 8 all time P4P guy in my opinion. I agree that Meldrick was a better fighter than anyone Sanchez beat. He would have been the top dog had Chavez not been around. He had the fight beat out of him. Anything you see of him after their first fight is a shell of his former self.

.::|ULTIMATE|::.

11-10-2004, 01:41 PM

Chavez definitely the best fighter to have come out of Mexico.

IN HIS PRIME... Chavez was one of the most (if not the most) dominating fighters of all time. He looked Super Human even against top rated competition, thats something that neither Sanchez or Lopez were able to achieve.

When Chavez fought Whitaker he was both already on a decline, over his weight and his style and movement and conditioning (which had been what made chavez great), changed and deteriorated.

Sanchez and Lopez were both great though.

borikua

11-10-2004, 02:12 PM

Oscar De La Hoya? :D

Lefthookhappy19

11-10-2004, 02:55 PM

Not going to argue with fanatics, go search round the internet on various forums and you will almost exclusivly find that Sanchez is rated above Chavez by the majority. Also, Sanchez is top 3 if not number 1 on most all time feather lists. Chavez cannot really boast the same in his divisions. Lightwelters a relitively young division.

Lefthookhappy19

11-10-2004, 03:03 PM

I meant Ruben CASTILLO ! Sorry.

You need to not get so insulted. That's why Sanchez has become overrated.
Because of his death, it's as if he's above criticism.

I'm telling you, after the Gomez fight, he was looking kinda ordinary.

You don't know what you're talking about when you're speaking of Meldrick Taylor.
When he & Chavez fought, Mel was, at least, in everyone's top 5, lb4lb.
Do you know that he DEMOLISHED Buddy McGirt ? Well, he did, back when Buddy was a TWO-ARMED fighter, & fighting at his peak.
Taylor also mopped up John Wesly Meekins, a guy who was thought to be a future superstar.

Chavez RUINED Taylor....& the flaws you saw in Taylor, you saw AFTER their fight.
I'm sorry....Meldrick Taylor was a better fighter than the Lopez & Gomez that Sanchez beat.

Gomez was a 122lber with a history of slacking off in training.

Listen, bro.....I think Sanchez was a special, great fighter.
But, I saw both he & Chavez in their primes.....& Chavez was the better fighter. He also accomplished far more than did Sanchez.

The romanticizing of Sanchez has made him overrated, however.

Taylor was not a better fighter than Gomez EVER. Taylor was talented but vulnerable. As was Donald Curry and Terry Norris, both could look incredible at times.

Still ingnoring the fact that Chavez never really beat a great fighter. Why are you putting so much emvisis (sp?) on his pretty record?

jabsRstiff

11-10-2004, 03:09 PM

Taylor was not a better fighter than Gomez EVER. Taylor was talented but vulnerable. As was Donald Curry and Terry Norris, both could look incredible at times.

Still ingnoring the fact that Chavez never really beat a great fighter. Why are you putting so much emvisis (sp?) on his pretty record?

Meldrick Taylor, at 140, was a bigger challenge.....than a Gomez who came UP from 122.
Gomez...DEFINED "talented but vulverable". Gomez's biggest win, was over a BANTAMWEIGHT, in Carlos Zarate. Tell me, how did that show he was ready for 126 ?
Like I said....Taylor beat the best guy at 140- McGirt.

I have yet to say a single thing about Chavez's record, buddy...it's YOU who keeps empasizing it.

Chavez was a lb4lb fighter for a whole decade. He fought & defeated a wide variety of fighters, & champions....as he moved up through three weight classes.

oldgringo

11-10-2004, 06:55 PM

Meldrick was one of the most astonishing fighters of the last few decades...his handspeed and accuracy were incredible. He had his career beat out of him by Chavez. DC kind of just changed over night after Honeyghan. There are a lot of fighters who have looked "invincible" at times. I don't think Meldrick ever looked invincible but he just looked superior to his competition.

It's really just kind of rediculous to compare their careers and say that Sal had a better career and was a better fighter. I think it's a bit like comparing Tyson and Holmes. The thing about his "pretty" record is that it will never be touched again. You'll never see any fighter fight that much, against the quality of opposition, at such a high level ever again and compile a 100+ win, 5 loss record.

Lefthookhappy19

11-10-2004, 07:39 PM

oldgringo

11-10-2004, 09:16 PM

Beat out of him? All this would have been forgot had Steele not stopped the fight. It would be Taylor W UD12 Chavez.

Also "his biggest win was over a bantam Carlos Zarate", you mean ONLY Carlos Zarate. Their is just no comparison, Meldrick was quicker but in no other way was he superior to Gomez. Gomez will get on many all time P4P top 50s, Taylor would be very lucky to get in the top 150. As gifted as he was. As ive said before, Gomez was a 2 to 1 favourite over Sanchez with a record of 32-0-1 (32), very highly regarded, vulnerable? Hardly.

You're going to tell me that he would have been the same fighter if he had won the fight? I believed that Steele should not have stopped and Mel should have won but he literally had the fight beat out of him. He had swelling of the brain, multiple facial fractures, and swallowed about 2 pints/quarts of his own blood. Either way he would not have been the same fighter afterwards. Of course he won't be on any top 50 P4P lists because he fought a complete machine in Chavez. Meldrick got the **** end of the stick on the decision and in life but that doesn't take away from what JCC did in that fight and his career.

SweetScience

11-10-2004, 10:35 PM

Salvador Sanchez is # 1. All he did was beat Gomez and Nelson which are hall of famers. Gomez and Nelson were monsters!!! Those two wins for Sanchez were huge IMO. Sanchez also beat Danny Lopez twice and knocked out Papa Trinidad...Haha. Just for that Sanchez is a top five Featherweight all time. Sure Chavez was a great but he never defeated anyone great like Sanchez did. Chavez has many wins but against WHO??? Chapo, yeah thats a nice win...Taylor,OK I will give Chavez that one. Ramirez win was a strange one. Let me tell you Chavez was a BADASS but I wish he would of fought Whitaker and so on during his prime. Chavez is # 2 IMO.

Sidenote: Duran's father is Mexican so his # 1!!!!! Hahaha.....

{BrownBomber}

11-10-2004, 10:56 PM

Nice And Simple Chavez #1 And Sanchez Right After. We Will Never See Another Chavez In Our Lifetime. He Is The Greatest Ever, In My Opinion. Check Out The Facts, He Beat The Most #1 Contenders And Champs Ever, Which Means He Had Very Tough Fights Againts Very Worthy Opposition And Made Them Look Like ****.mark My Words U Will Never See A Fighter Like Chavez In Your Lifetime!!!!!

{BrownBomber}

11-10-2004, 10:58 PM

Silencer

11-10-2004, 11:19 PM

My answer is as simple as JC "Superstar" Chavez!!!

Silencer

11-10-2004, 11:25 PM

And I'd say that if Erik beats the likes of Casamayor, Frietas and Corrales, then he's getting close.

tntkid

11-11-2004, 12:02 AM

Chavez no question

JOM'S

11-11-2004, 06:48 AM

coming from Asia as a kid growing up, names like Chaves, Sanchez & Lopez always comes to my mind as great Mexican fighters and very well known around the world.....

jabsRstiff

11-11-2004, 07:04 AM

Salvador Sanchez's win over Azumah Nelson has a big ol' asterisk next to it.

Nelson had THIRTEEN fights....& was a last minute sub. Yet, he pushed Sanchez to the limit.
There's no doubt, Nelson developed into one of the best fighters of this generation.
In fact.....I rate him as a greater fighter than Sanchez, & had they met again a year or two down the road, Nelson would have beaten Sanchez.

Lefthookhappy19

11-11-2004, 09:49 AM

Sanchez was usually a slow starter, he took his time to get into the Nelson fight but then he started to break him down. Nelson may have been green but he was still pretty good, also an unknown. He had turned pro after an almost unbeaten amatuer career.

jabsRstiff

11-11-2004, 10:21 AM

rsl

11-11-2004, 10:46 AM

Y'all wanna know what makes any great mexican fighters hair crawl up their backs...... Pernell " Sweet Pea" Whitaker! We can go on and on as to which Mexican fighter is the greatest, but none of 'em can even be competitive with Whitaker in their primes.

jabsRstiff

11-11-2004, 10:55 AM

rsl

11-11-2004, 11:03 AM

Whitaker beat one GREAT Mexican, that's all. Yeah and that happens to be the Greatest Mexican fighter in alot of people's opinion( cause I don't consider Chavez really winnng that fight with Whitaker)including mine. I don't think any other great mexican fighter would've fared any better against Whitaker.

jabsRstiff

11-11-2004, 11:07 AM

Yeah and that happens to be the Greatest Mexican fighter in alot of people's opinion( cause I don't consider Chavez really winnng that fight with Whitaker)including mine. I don't think any other great mexican fighter would've fared any better against Whitaker.

There weren't really any GREAT Mexicans, throughout history, in the weight classes that Whitaker went through.

Jose Napoles was a Cuban-born Mexican....who would have had a great chance at beating Whitaker. Whitaker at 147, was never unbeatable, at all.

tony

11-11-2004, 12:08 PM

If Sanchez wouldn't have been taken away from us so early then maybe he'd have outshone Chavez. But as it stands Julio Cesar Chavez has got to be considered as the all time best. He was at the top for so long.

Keleneki

11-16-2004, 04:04 AM

JC Chavez, although these is a good chance that it would have been Salvador Sanchez, if he didn't pass away so suddenly and unexpectedly. What a sad thing that was.

Ivansmamma

11-23-2004, 05:11 AM

Julio Caesar Chavez is the gratest mexican fighter ever.

rockroyal24

11-27-2004, 05:09 AM

You can't argue with Julio Cesar Chavez I have to say he got a little help against Taylor in 90 and Whitaker in 93 but definately an all time great

paulmmv

11-27-2004, 10:03 PM

i think vargas is the best mexican fighter of all time i can think of one fight of his i dident like

julDilla

11-27-2004, 10:05 PM

i think vargas is the best mexican fighter of all time i can think of one fight of his i dident like

that bum is not mexican

julDilla

11-27-2004, 10:07 PM

You can't argue with Julio Cesar Chavez I have to say he got a little help against Taylor in 90 and Whitaker in 93 but definately an all time great
can you please explain that to me, how he got a lil help?

rockroyal24

11-27-2004, 11:15 PM

can you please explain that to me, how he got a lil help?

Taylor was up and Chavez couldn't have come across the ring in two seconds to finish him. Taylor was well ahead on the cards.

julDilla

11-27-2004, 11:18 PM

Taylor was up and Chavez couldn't have come across the ring in two seconds to finish him. Taylor was well ahead on the cards.

o your talking about the stopage hahahaha thats the corners fault hahahaha VIVA MEXICO but yeah thats crazy 2 seconds to go and the fight is stopped

MexicanBoxer

11-28-2004, 03:25 AM

ITS BETWEEN JC AND SANCHEZ BUT FOR P4P all time,Most people say its sanchez

rsl

11-28-2004, 03:48 AM

ITS BETWEEN JC AND SANCHEZ BUT FOR P4P all time,Most people say its sanchez Julio Cesar Chavez is one of my all-time favorites, but I don't think , I've actually seen Salvador Sanchez fight, can you or anybody tell me why some would see Sanchez as the better fighter? What decade did Sanchez fight in?

MexicanBoxer

11-28-2004, 03:56 AM

he was a counter puncher he was like barrera becuase he was brawler at first but later became acounter puncher. he fought in the 80's and 70's i think he died at age 24 or 22.

stix

11-28-2004, 06:57 AM

Got to be Julio Cesar Chavez. Sanchez just wasn't around long enough.

Yogi

11-28-2004, 07:08 AM

Provided he could get them into the ring, Alfredo Zuany would've smoked every other Mexican fighter that has been mentioned so far in this thread, and with very little trouble.

BigMikeD

11-28-2004, 09:29 PM

Chavez agreed

BigMikeD

11-28-2004, 09:29 PM

thats funny

jayrichardse

01-31-2005, 12:08 AM

julio cezar chavez

DAX

01-31-2005, 06:02 PM

1. Carlos Zarate
2. Reuben Olivares
3. Salvador Sanchez
4. Julio Cesar Chavez

I've seen them all fight and it's a close call, not meaning to disrespect any . They were all great!

nelsoncm

01-31-2005, 06:22 PM

o your talking about the stopage hahahaha thats the corners fault hahahaha VIVA MEXICO but yeah thats crazy 2 seconds to go and the fight is stopped

Not the referee's fault actually. The ref isn't concerned with the time left.

jedihillis

02-01-2005, 12:19 AM

The guy that mows my lawn once said he used to be a pretty good fighter.

.::|ULTIMATE|::.

02-01-2005, 01:30 AM

o your talking about the stopage hahahaha thats the corners fault hahahaha VIVA MEXICO but yeah thats crazy 2 seconds to go and the fight is stopped

It was actually more like 6 to 7 seconds (when steel has his hands up waving the fight off).. start up a stop watch u'll see thats an eternity.

In fact... had Richard steel not counted to 9 (8 is what should have been counted to) and had only asked taylor ONCE if he was ok , then it would have been around 8 - 9 seconds to go had Steele let the fight go on.

Seems like to me Steele tried to give Taylor the chance but Taylor didnt answer him, didnt/couldnt take advantage of Steele's helping hand without looking like he gave him a break. what was he suspposed let him rest on the ropes for 6 or 7 more seconds?

adrsan84

02-01-2005, 02:12 AM

Chavez was great but he stayed around too long, on the other hand Sanchez was not around long enough. Sanchez was a great fighter though that cannot be taken away, he beat Lopez, destroyed Wilfredo Gomez, who was a 3 to 1 favorite, and knocked out Azumah Nelson. You can argue it was only Nelson's 13th fight but that does not take away from the fact that he was a year older than Sanchez so he wasn't gonna decline any time soon. Sanchez did fight down to his opponents level on occasion but he was never upset once he got into his later stages. Chavez did have the better career though because of his continued dominance but if Sanchez would have been around longer his would have been greater. So greatest fighter Sanchez, Greatest career Chavez.