Like the heavyweight division there seems to be a changing of guard going on in the light heavyweight division. Jones and DM are out and its anyones for taking. There is also a lot of young talented fighters in this division. What is your list of the top 10 light heavyweights.

1) Tarver: earned this spot by being the second person to beat Jones.
2) Erdei: linear champ, easily outpointed Gonzalez winning 10, 10 and 9 rounds as opposed to RJJ winning 11, 11, and 10 rounds against him.
3) Briggs: undefeated Tarver mandatory and he has good power.
4) Green: only loss is a DQ and he gave Toney a run for his money, though Toney wasn't really trying.
5) Gonzalez: first to beat DM.
6) Drews: only loss was to Briggs, and Briggs only managed to win 5, 7, and 9 rounds.
7) Garay: only loss is a close loss to Erdei.
8) Johnson: beat a ruined RJJ.
9) Ulrich: retired Rocchigiani, only loss is to Johnson.
10) Veit: only loss is to Calzaghe.

I don't see anyone there who beats Tarver, unfortunately. At least not for a couple of years.

This is sort of a shot in the dark, but what about Taylor in about 3-5 yrs. Certainly Super Middle anyway, he looks really big at 160, I don't see him staying there too long.

Tarver shouldnt get anymore credit out of beating jones then Johnson did. They both fought a washed up fighter, who is now only a shadow of his former self. I do see Tarver ruling the division fo a while, but to me, it's not because he beat RJJ...

Tarver shouldnt get anymore credit out of beating jones then Johnson did. They both fought a washed up fighter, who is now only a shadow of his former self. I do see Tarver ruling the division fo a while, but to me, it's not because he beat RJJ...

Johnson fought a more washed up version of Jones than Tarver did. There is no way Johnson could possibly rule the division, yet you see Tarver ruling it. And yet you are asking why Tarver is that good. Tarver is the man for the moment, but I don't see him being the man for very long. Yet you do. Tarver obviously ruined a declining version of Jones. Just look at how horrible he looked against Johnson.

Johnson fought a more washed up version of Jones than Tarver did. There is no way Johnson could possibly rule the division, yet you see Tarver ruling it. Tarver obviously ruined Jones. He looked horrible against Johnson. So Tarver obviously ruined Jones.


that is true. I think Jones ruined himself by dropping back down. If Tarver really got under his skin, he should have just invited him up to heavy weight, but Jones had to feed his ego with those damn belts

Tarver shouldnt get anymore credit out of beating jones then Johnson did. They both fought a washed up fighter, who is now only a shadow of his former self. I do see Tarver ruling the division fo a while, but to me, it's not because he beat RJJ...

I agree with you to an extent, but do you think there are any LH's listed here or otherwise who would be favored against Tarver right now. (Realistically I mean, I'm not saying he's unbeatable)

Of course I'll contradict myself here by saying that I would love to see Hopkins beat Tarver, and I don't think it's too far fetched.

I realize this reads fairly stupidly, but that's what happens when you try type and think at the same time...that said I'll post it anyway...

Like the heavyweight division there seems to be a changing of guard going on in the light heavyweight division. Jones and DM are out and its anyones for taking. There is also a lot of young talented fighters in this division. What is your list of the top 10 light heavyweights.

1) Tarver: earned this spot by being the second person to beat Jones.
2) Erdei: linear champ, easily outpointed Gonzalez winning 10, 10 and 9 rounds as opposed to RJJ winning 11, 11, and 10 rounds against him.
3) Briggs: undefeated Tarver mandatory and he has good power.
4) Green: only loss is a DQ and he gave Toney a run for his money, though Toney wasn't really trying.
5) Gonzalez: first to beat DM.
6) Drews: only loss was to Briggs, and Briggs only managed to win 5, 7, and 9 rounds.
7) Garay: only loss is a close loss to Erdei.
8) Johnson: beat a ruined RJJ.
9) Ulrich: retired Rocchigiani, only loss is to Johnson.
10) Veit: only loss is to Calzaghe.


And you don't think you are a hypocrite at all?

whats the scoop on Paul Briggs, have read a little about him can he compete with AT?

Like the heavyweight division there seems to be a changing of guard going on in the light heavyweight division. Jones and DM are out and its anyones for taking. There is also a lot of young talented fighters in this division. What is your list of the top 10 light heavyweights.

1) Tarver: earned this spot by being the second person to beat Jones.
2) Erdei: linear champ, easily outpointed Gonzalez winning 10, 10 and 9 rounds as opposed to RJJ winning 11, 11, and 10 rounds against him.
3) Briggs: undefeated Tarver mandatory and he has good power.
4) Green: only loss is a DQ and he gave Toney a run for his money, though Toney wasn't really trying.
5) Gonzalez: first to beat DM.
6) Drews: only loss was to Briggs, and Briggs only managed to win 5, 7, and 9 rounds.
7) Garay: only loss is a close loss to Erdei.
8) Johnson: beat a ruined RJJ.
9) Ulrich: retired Rocchigiani, only loss is to Johnson.
10) Veit: only loss is to Calzaghe.

i dont think erdei is linear, tarver by beating the former p4p king has earned him that spot but i mostly agree with your rankings . i do believe that ice griffin should be included after his performance against rico hoye, hoye should also be considered

And you don't think you are a hypocrite at all?

Please explain.

i dont think erdei is linear, tarver by beating the former p4p king has earned him that spot but i mostly agree with your rankings . i do believe that ice griffin should be included after his performance against rico hoye, hoye should also be considered

You become the linear champ by beating the linear champ. I wasn't sure if I should include Hoye and Griffin, but in the end I decided to give them both the boot. In their last fight Griffin looked old, and Hoye looked like crap.

Here's a link for you to see who all of the linear champs are and were.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/pastchp.htm

No comments all night, and still no other list. How weak.

You become the linear champ by beating the linear champ. I wasn't sure if I should include Hoye and Griffin, but in the end I decided to give them both the boot. In their last fight Griffin looked old, and Hoye looked like crap.

Here's a link for you to see who all of the linear champs are and were.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/pastchp.htm

its all opinion. that would mean that because tarver beat jones, he would would be the p4p king. to me linear is the recognised peoples champ and i believe that would be magic man.

my top 10
antonio tarver- beat roy jones,eric harding lost to harding,jones
zsolt erdei-beat julio cesar gonzalez hasent bean beaten
julio ceasar -gonzalez- beat DM ,johnson lost to jones, erdei
glen johnson beat rj,ulrich,woods lost 9 times(not listing)
paul briggs -beat stipe drews lost to larl zada :confused:
thomas ulrich-beat Rocchigiani,branco lost to johnson
stipe drew- beat branco only loss came to briggs
montell griffin should have beate hoye,beat toney twice ,lost to jones tarver harding and dm
rico hoye- beat richard hall, imo lost to griffin
derick harmon - beat telasco scheduled to fight gonzalez lost to jones among others like o'niel bell

its all opinion. that would mean that because tarver beat jones, he would would be the p4p king. to me linear is the recognised peoples champ and i believe that would be magic man.

Being the linear champ isn't the same as the p4p king. RJJ was the recognized people's champ, but DM was the linear champ. Now Tarver is the recognized people's champ, but Erdei is the linear champ.

my top 10
antonio tarver- beat roy jones,eric harding lost to harding,jones
zsolt erdei-beat julio cesar gonzalez hasent bean beaten
julio ceasar -gonzalez- beat DM ,johnson lost to jones, erdei
glen johnson beat rj,ulrich,woods lost 9 times(not listing)
paul briggs -beat stipe drews lost to larl zada :confused:
thomas ulrich-beat Rocchigiani,branco lost to johnson
stipe drew- beat branco only loss came to briggs
montell griffin should have beate hoye,beat toney twice ,lost to jones tarver harding and dm
rico hoye- beat richard hall, imo lost to griffin
derick harmon - beat telasco scheduled to fight gonzalez lost to jones among others like o'niel bell

I'm glad to see someone finally added a top ten list. I think its all pretty good except for Harmon. Yes he beat Telesco, who I was never very impressed with, but he lost to Bell in his previous fight, but it was CW. The Gonzalez fight may prove me wrong though. It all depends on how Harmon does.

i think tarver and johnson are the top two, and not just because they both beat jones

i think tarver and johnson are the top two, and not just because they both beat jones

Why Johnson? Was it because in his previous 6 fights before beating Jones he lost to Harmon and Gonzalez and had draws with Woods and Judah.

I'm glad to see someone finally added a top ten list. I think its all pretty good except for Harmon. Yes he beat Telesco, who I was never very impressed with, but he lost to Bell in his previous fight, but it was CW. The Gonzalez fight may prove me wrong though. It all depends on how Harmon does.

i actually think harmon is going to surprise gonzalez. after that harmon would be a good test for erdei. i would like to see erdei fight the winner of that bout or fight montell griffin.

yea I don't agree with traver being the number one

Actually, my favorite LT. Heavy is a fighter you probably will never hear about, his name is Carl "Kojack" Handy. He is a friend of mine who, when he is on, is just alot of fun to watch.

The man is tough, and when you get in the ring with him, he may just rise to the challenge and beat your butt, no matter what your record is. You gotta love a guy like that, I have been announcing his fights for years - he may never get to the top, but he sure has suprised some fighters who thought they were gonna walk all over him....

yea I don't agree with traver being the number one

Who is then?

Actually, my favorite LT. Heavy is a fighter you probably will never hear about, his name is Carl "Kojack" Handy. He is a friend of mine who, when he is on, is just alot of fun to watch.

The man is tough, and when you get in the ring with him, he may just rise to the challenge and beat your butt, no matter what your record is. You gotta love a guy like that, I have been announcing his fights for years - he may never get to the top, but he sure has suprised some fighters who thought they were gonna walk all over him....

Yeah I looked him up. He's not too bad. World rank of 71 and he's 19-4-2.

http://hagler.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=042964

Yeah I looked him up. He's not too bad. World rank of 71 and he's 19-4-2.

http://hagler.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=042964

He is a really nice guy too, I wish he had done better in Germany, but hey, you go overseas and fight the #5 fighter in the world, and you're still standing at the final bell - not bad for a guy ranked #71!

He is a really nice guy too, I wish he had done better in Germany, but hey, you go overseas and fight the #5 fighter in the world, and you're still standing at the final bell - not bad for a guy ranked #71!

Yeah especially when Ulrich's KO% is 70%, a full 10% higher than RJJ was at LHW.

Yeah especially when Ulrich's KO% is 70%, a full 10% higher than RJJ was at LHW.

Really?! Wow, and to think Carl took the fight on a one month notice, and really just wanted to see Germany!

Who is then?


id like to know as well. who other than tarver? i could see erdei but thats it

Who the hell cares anymore really? The only fighter worth watching is pretty much done for, unless he makes a comeback...which for some reason I think he will. I hope he does, just to smack tarver around, then he can retire for good. I doubt he will though.

Being the linear champ isn't the same as the p4p king. RJJ was the recognized people's champ, but DM was the linear champ. Now Tarver is the recognized people's champ, but Erdei is the linear champ.

Well, why does no one hold the linear title since it was vacated in 1985? Who gets to say that Virgil Hill picks it up in 1996 after more than 10 years? Jones beat Hill quite handily as well, not sure if that was before or after Hill was considered linear. Besides, since the line was cut in 1985 (as it was many times before) then it's unfair to grant it to anyone else as "linear" after that point. Plus Jones beat Hill and Gonzales, Gonzales beat Michelchewski, not in the order listed on the website you showed but I still think if the line broke anywhere within Jones' reign as it did, he should have been where it restarted, all roads ended with Jones from 154 lbs to 175 lbs between 1993-2003.

Whoever compiled that linear page seems to hate RJJ, they left him out of every weight class he cleaned out... they even list James Toney as "vacating" the middleweight title in 1993 then it wasn't re-established until 2001 in Hopkins' name. What a joke. If memory serves me correctly, Roy Jones Jr masterfully outboxed the so-called unbeatable James Toney winning a 12 round unanimous decison to take the title. If that's "vacating" the title then I guess RJJ was just "vacating" the title when he got KTFO by Tarver & Johnson... heh.

Well, why does no one hold the linear title since it was vacated in 1985? Who gets to say that Virgil Hill picks it up in 1996 after more than 10 years? Jones beat Hill quite handily as well, not sure if that was before or after Hill was considered linear. Besides, since the line was cut in 1985 (as it was many times before) then it's unfair to grant it to anyone else as "linear" after that point. Plus Jones beat Hill and Gonzales, Gonzales beat Michelchewski, not in the order listed on the website you showed but I still think if the line broke anywhere within Jones' reign as it did, he should have been where it restarted, all roads ended with Jones from 154 lbs to 175 lbs between 1993-2003.

Hill won his IBF and WBA belts when there was no WBC champion. Jones beat Hill after DM beat Hill. When DM beat Hill he won the WBO belt which he had and Hill's WBA and IBF belts thus becoming the linear champion. I can't believe we are actually discussing this. DM beat Griffin and Griffin beat Jones. Gonzalez beat Johnson and Johnson destroyed Jones. So what's your point?

Whoever compiled that linear page seems to hate RJJ, they left him out of every weight class he cleaned out... they even list James Toney as "vacating" the middleweight title in 1993 then it wasn't re-established until 2001 in Hopkins' name. What a joke. If memory serves me correctly, Roy Jones Jr masterfully outboxed the so-called unbeatable James Toney winning a 12 round unanimous decison to take the title. If that's "vacating" the title then I guess RJJ was just "vacating" the title when he got KTFO by Tarver & Johnson... heh.

So now being objective with facts is the same thing as hating RJJ. Your memory doesn't serve you correctly. RJJ beat Toney for the IBF super middleweight belt.

I'd like to see Calzaghe step up & test himself at 175. Has he ever fought anyone good?

No current light heavyweight can claim to be the linear light heavyweight champion. The linear champ was broken when Hearns beat Virgil Hill.

Like the heavyweight division there seems to be a changing of guard going on in the light heavyweight division. Jones and DM are out and its anyones for taking. There is also a lot of young talented fighters in this division. What is your list of the top 10 light heavyweights.

1) Tarver: earned this spot by being the second person to beat Jones.
2) Erdei: linear champ, easily outpointed Gonzalez winning 10, 10 and 9 rounds as opposed to RJJ winning 11, 11, and 10 rounds against him.
3) Briggs: undefeated Tarver mandatory and he has good power.
4) Green: only loss is a DQ and he gave Toney a run for his money, though Toney wasn't really trying.
5) Gonzalez: first to beat DM.
6) Drews: only loss was to Briggs, and Briggs only managed to win 5, 7, and 9 rounds.
7) Garay: only loss is a close loss to Erdei.
8) Johnson: beat a ruined RJJ.
9) Ulrich: retired Rocchigiani, only loss is to Johnson.
10) Veit: only loss is to Calzaghe.

Erdei's not the linear champion. I've already been throught this with you, but I'll say it again. Virgil Hill was not the linear champion when Dariusz Michalszewski beat him. So quit pretending that's true and deal with it.

Apart from that, I don't really have a problem with this post. Except that two of the fighters listed here are super middles. Green and Veit are both super middleweight fighters.

Hill won his IBF and WBA belts when there was no WBC champion. Jones beat Hill after DM beat Hill. When DM beat Hill he won the WBO belt which he had and Hill's WBA and IBF belts thus becoming the linear champion. I can't believe we are actually discussing this. DM beat Griffin and Griffin beat Jones. Gonzalez beat Johnson and Johnson destroyed Jones. So what's your point?
Even if a title is vacant, you have to unify all three in order to gain linear recognition. Unless of course, you want to grant The Ring Magazine's policy a little credence here. And they say Jones was the linear light heavy champ, and now Tarver is, beacause Jones unified all three belts, and then Tarver beat him. That's the way it works.

Furthermore, you have a clear bias toward Eastern European fighters. It's absurd. Whether you're European or not, you have to admit that America is the world's stage. 90% of the most important business within the sport is done in America. That doesn't mean that Eastern fighters like Vitali Klitschko can't be successful. But important fighters generally fight in America. It's just the way it is.

Oh, and this idea you have of listing fighters who beat the men that beat Jones is absurd. First of all, styles make fights. Iran Barkley beat Hearns, and Hearns knocked Duran out in two rounds. Does that mean Barkley beat Duran?

Also, Jones beat everyone you mentioned. Jones beat Montell Griffin, who never really beat Roy. He won a fight on a disqualification. It's not the same thing. And Jones beat Gonzalez worse than Erdei did. And remember, Gonzalez' win over Johnson is extremely controversial.

Grow a little objectivity.

1) Tarver
2) Johnson
3) Michalczewski (if return)
4) Green
5) Erdei

No current light heavyweight can claim to be the linear light heavyweight champion. The linear champ was broken when Hearns beat Virgil Hill.

Get real man. What in the world are you taling about? I hope that you are drunk right now.

Get real man. What in the world are you taling about? I hope that you are drunk right now.


Who gives a flying **** about the LINEAR champ ?

"Linear" to what....a sanctioning body title ?

Neuraxis....you only hump that term because it serves your purpose...which is the elevation of Eastern Euro fighters, & the denigration of American ones.

You're transparent.

Erdei's not the linear champion. I've already been throught this with you, but I'll say it again. Virgil Hill was not the linear champion when Dariusz Michalszewski beat him. So quit pretending that's true and deal with it.

Apart from that, I don't really have a problem with this post. Except that two of the fighters listed here are super middles. Green and Veit are both super middleweight fighters.

Yes we already went over this. I showed you why you were wrong and then you never posted on the thread again. Even though I brought it back up to the top for you and you still didn't post on it. I don't know what you are talking about regarding Ring Magazine. If that's their stance then they are obviously wrong. I can't find anyplace anywhere that calls Roy Jones Jr. or Tarver the linear champs. As for Veit and Green, they had both fought their most recent fights at LHW and not SMW, but since then you are right about Veit. He fought on 11/6 at SMW. Griffin was ahead on 1 scorecard and behind by 1 and 2 points on the others. RJJ just couldn't keep his cool. A loss is a loss bro. Johnson lost to Ruiz and Jones lost to Griffin. No one is saying that Erdei is better than RJJ was. Get it straight man. And I must have missed the controversy when Gonzalez beat Johnson.

Who gives a flying **** about the LINEAR champ ?

"Linear" to what....a sanctioning body title ?

Neuraxis....you only hump that term because it serves your purpose...which is the elevation of Eastern Euro fighters, & the denigration of American ones.

You're transparent.

Or the elevation of DM and the denigration of RJJ. Get it straight.

Or the elevation of DM and the denigration of RJJ. Get it straight.


I believe you. I'll bet that's why you started this dull-ass topic, just to bring people around to that debate.

I was bored by Jones-DM debating, back in 2000. It's even less interesting now.

I believe you. I'll bet that's why you started this dull-ass topic, just to bring people around to that debate.

I was bored by Jones-DM debating, back in 2000. It's even less interesting now.

Actually I made this thread as a way to move on. It was supposed to be a top 10 LHW list. RJJ and DM don't even belong anywhere in this thread. But some people can't get over them I guess, and I can't just stand by with educating them.

Even Rjj lost to in a row a think he deserve to be in top ten

No way Tarvar beats Matthew Saad Muhammad or Michael Spinks.......

Whoever compiled that linear page seems to hate RJJ, they left him out of every weight class he cleaned out... they even list James Toney as "vacating" the middleweight title in 1993 then it wasn't re-established until 2001 in Hopkins' name. What a joke. If memory serves me correctly, Roy Jones Jr masterfully outboxed the so-called unbeatable James Toney winning a 12 round unanimous decison to take the title. If that's "vacating" the title then I guess RJJ was just "vacating" the title when he got KTFO by Tarver & Johnson... heh.


Toney vacated the linear middle wieght title, this is true. But RJJ beat him at super middle, so Roy has a claim at being the liner super middle boss. At light heavy Darius M. beat Vigil hill before Roy did, Virgil was the linear LH champ and since Roy and Darius never fought Roy has no claim to that distinction, yes he may have been the Undisputed champion he was not the linear one.

No way Tarvar beats Matthew Saad Muhammad or Michael Spinks.......
my matt is the best :)

Toney vacated the linear middle wieght title, this is true. But RJJ beat him at super middle, so Roy has a claim at being the liner super middle boss. At light heavy Darius M. beat Vigil hill before Roy did, Virgil was the linear LH champ and since Roy and Darius never fought Roy has no claim to that distinction, yes he may have been the Undisputed champion he was not the linear one.

I can't believe this. Look, this is indisputable fact, ok, not my opinion. I'll find the records and post them later, but I'm sick of hearing about this:

Virgil Hill was not the linear light heavyweight champion. There wasn't one between 1985, when Spinks relinquished and fractured the titles, and 1999, when Roy Jones unified them.

Yes we already went over this. I showed you why you were wrong and then you never posted on the thread again. Even though I brought it back up to the top for you and you still didn't post on it. I don't know what you are talking about regarding Ring Magazine. If that's their stance then they are obviously wrong. I can't find anyplace anywhere that calls Roy Jones Jr. or Tarver the linear champs. As for Veit and Green, they had both fought their most recent fights at LHW and not SMW, but since then you are right about Veit. He fought on 11/6 at SMW. Griffin was ahead on 1 scorecard and behind by 1 and 2 points on the others. RJJ just couldn't keep his cool. A loss is a loss bro. Johnson lost to Ruiz and Jones lost to Griffin. No one is saying that Erdei is better than RJJ was. Get it straight man. And I must have missed the controversy when Gonzalez beat Johnson.

I must not have been online when it was at the top. I'm sorry. That in no way means that I conceded.

Green holds a spurious title at supermiddle. He was fighting a supermiddle. It's true, he fought over 168, but that doesn't make him a light heavy.

There's a difference between a loss and being beaten. I was taking issue with your use of the word beat. That's all that I have to say about Jones and Griffin.

Johnson never lost to Ruiz. Johnson never fought at heavyweight. I have no idea what you meant.

As for the Ring, the whole purpose of their policy is to declare one champion valid per weight class. If that doesn't sound like a linear championship, then you and I have different definitions for the same word.

And I can guarantee you never proved me wrong. And I can guarantee that the Ring is not obviously wrong in calling Roy Jones the linear light heavyweight champion.