This is an interesting matchup. Both have a history together as training partners. Vera, has had two back to back losses at heavyweight and looked listless in victory against Reese Andy in his 205lbs debut(weight cutting was difficult), tonight is a do or die fight for "The Truth".

Jardine on the other hand, he's coming off a ko loss against Wanderlei, awkward, has had a history of having difficulty dealing with strikers. If it wasn't for Vera looking so weak against Andy, I'd pick him no doubt. Jardine's scrappiness, might give Vera problems tonight, I just don't think Vera is right for 205lbs, the weight reduction is too much.

This fight is a near toss-up with a slight edge to Vera.

Pros for Vera - Jardine is coming off a k.o loss
- Jardine has difficulties with strikers
- Has trained with Jardine for years

Cons for Vera - His strength and stamina is zapped at 205lbs.


Pros for Jardine - Vera appears weak at 205lbs and Jardine's busy style
will pose problems for an energy zapped Vera
- Has trained with Vera for years

Cons for Jardine- Was ko'd in his last bout and to top it all off Vera
knows how to close the show standing up!
- Has a history of being beaten by good stand-up fighters.

That was close. Vera almost got stopped.

You can't count Jardine out because Houston Alexander got a random shot in on him. As for the knockout that Wanderlei gave him, well that was Wanderlei Silva. Wanderlei is in a class far above Vera. I really think that Brandon Vera will grow to be a good 205lb fighter, and I don't think his conditioning will be a problem now that his body has adjusted to the weight loss, but it's Jardine's awkward style that will give him trouble.

Jardine via TKO.

It was a very hard fight to call and I had it either way. first round I had Jardine. 2nd Vera and 3rd it could of went either way but good fight overall imo.

i disagree the first round was the most exciting, IMO

blown opportunity by Vera, he had the fight gift wrapped with Jardine looking very to have a very hurt left knee

Vera stuck and moved ... except it was too much moving

he lost the fight more then Jardine won it.

He trained with Lloyd Irvin...for this?

i wonder what excuse Vera will come up with for this performance

the UFC should put Vera on the undercards from now on.

I'd like to see how much motivation that would do for him

i had it 2 rounds to 1 for Vera...

Tough break for Vera, but Dana needs him for his expansion to Asia so he will for sure keep him as a UFC star for now.

Anyboy who had Vera winning this fight is crazy. Jardine deserved to win this fight, he was more aggresive and imo landed the better shots. All 3 rounds in the book for Jardine. Vera just doesnt look right at 205.

Anyboy who had Vera winning this fight is crazy. Jardine deserved to win this fight, he was more aggresive and imo landed the better shots. All 3 rounds in the book for Jardine. Vera just doesnt look right at 205.


I dunno he didn't look sluggish in the later rounds

Don't think it was the weight cutting was a factor this time, and already said it, but Vera was too cautious in the last rounds of the fight and blew it.

and Palma expansion to Asia or not, if Vera keeps fighting the way he's been fighting Star or not, Brandon Vera will be hard to market

cuz IMO he fought like crap.

Vera has the old Arlowski and Tim S. syndrome. Fighting not to loose instead of letting it all hang out and fighting to win. Plus, I did not see Vera using his hands enough.

He needs to reevaluate his training team and coaches cause they are leading him down a path to unemployment!

Vera has the old Arlowski and Tim S. syndrome. Fighting not to loose instead of letting it all hang out and fighting to win. Plus, I did not see Vera using his hands enough.

He needs to reevaluate his training team and coaches cause they are leading him down a path to unemployment!I disagree with your last statement. His coach, Lloyd Irvin was shouting to push it in that last round(I actually gave the last round to Vera). It's no longer the coach's fault if his student is not following his coach's instruction.

I agree with his coach that Vera should've put more pressure in that last round, but at the same time, Vera in my eyes was clearly landing the cleaner blows, I don't remember much as far as takedowns/ground control action if there were any in the 3rd round. I mean, Jardine in the last 10 seconds of the third round threw a 3 punch combo and landed a grazing blow to Vera's head, if that's what decided it for the judge's, then those judge's need to visit their optometrist.

I mean, Vera landed some meaningful knees as a counter to Jardine's overhand right, those knees alone were far more effective than anything Jardine was doing in the 3rd round.

Nonetheless, it was a close fight. Vera's biggest problem is not his coaching staff, certainly not in the talent/skill department. It's simply his natural physical build. He's what football and basketball scouts would refer to as a tweener. For instance, if NFL running backs are usually around 5'11 205lbs and generally run the 40 between 4.5 - 4.3seconds and fullbacks usually are 5'11 235 - 240 and slower than running backs. Well ,what if you had a running back who is 5'11 205lbs but ran a 4.8 40, that's considered a very slow running back by NFL standards and also very small to be a fullback.

Vera is simply stuck between a rock(heavyweight division) and a hard place(the light heavy division). Brandon is basically too small to be a heavyweight and too weight drained to keep fighting at light heavy.

I disagree!

too weight drained? did Vera use that excuse in the post fight interview?

and I've heard of the term tweener, but Vera is a small heavyweight, and looks pretty big at Light Heavy, so hopefully weight cutting wasn't the problem

because from the looks of things Brandon didn't really fight that way AT ALL, IMO as me and Palma are suggesting Brandon was way too tentative and moving around too much

that doesn't look like the signs of a weight drained fighter to me.

I'll watch the fight again if I have the stomach for it but my initial gut reaction right after the fight was "if Vera lost it's because he moved around too much and didn't really land anything signifigant"

and again if he was weight drained how and why would Vera be moving around so damn much?

too weight drained? did Vera use that excuse in the post fight interview?

and I've heard of the term tweener, but Vera is a small heavyweight, and looks pretty big at Light Heavy, so hopefully weight cutting wasn't the problem

because from the looks of things Brandon didn't really fight that way AT ALL, IMO as me and Palma are suggesting Brandon was way too tentative and moving around too much

that doesn't look like the signs of a weight drained fighter to me.

I'll watch the fight again if I have the stomach for it but my initial gut reaction right after the fight was "if Vera lost it's because he moved around too much and didn't really land anything signifigant"

and again if he was weight drained how and why would Vera be moving around so damn much?The discussion of whether a fighter was weight drained for a fight or not is sometimes a very gray area, at times it's obvious(ex. PAC - Morales 3). So I won't go any further on the weight drain issue.

Can you please elaborate more on what you mean by Vera moving around too much(ie lateral movement or lots of unneccesary movement)?

I thought Vera was backin' up a lil too much whenever Jardine would throw some feints, therefore putting himself out of range to counter, usually when a fighter is backin' up more so in other fights usually means he's showing a lil too much respect for his opponent. This alone could be the problem as to why Vera lost the fight, hence, that's why he didn't really score as much punches/kicks.

Second reason for Vera's lost was Jardine's scrappiness, is also what gave Vera problems(just like I thought it would)

Third, Vera landed some great knee counters but didn't follow it up with anything else. he also buckled Jardine's knee with that one back leg front kick(Jardine even admitted during the post-fight interview that he was hurting for a bit from the kick) , Vera should've kept targeting that same knee ala Cung Le when he kept targeting Shamrock's forearm. It could've been the game changer for Vera.

Palma said that Vera should've let his hands go more. I disagree, Vera exchanging with Jardine would play into Jardine's hands. Jardine, although amateurish in his stand-up, is scrappy with his fists, Vera has crappy boxing. It may have turned into a disaster for Vera if he got in too many exchanges with the busier Jardine.

The discussion of whether a fighter was weight drained for a fight or not is sometimes a very gray area, at times it's obvious(ex. PAC - Morales 3). So I won't go any further on the weight drain issue.

Can you please elaborate more on what you mean by Vera moving around too much(ie lateral movement or lots of unneccesary movement)?

I thought Vera was backin' up a lil too much whenever Jardine would throw some feints, therefore putting himself out of range to counter, usually when a fighter is backin' up more so in other fights usually means he's showing a lil too much respect for his opponent. This alone could be the problem as to why Vera lost the fight, hence, that's why he didn't really score as much punches/kicks.

Second reason for Vera's lost was Jardine's scrappiness, is also what gave Vera problems(just like I thought it would)

Third, Vera landed some great knee counters but didn't follow it up with anything else. he also buckled Jardine's knee with that one back leg front kick(Jardine even admitted during the post-fight interview that he was hurting for a bit from the kick) , Vera should've kept targeting that same knee ala Cung Le when he kept targeting Shamrock's forearm. It could've been the game changer for Vera.

Palma said that Vera should've let his hands go more. I disagree, Vera exchanging with Jardine would play into Jardine's hands. Jardine, although amateurish in his stand-up, is scrappy with his fists, Vera has crappy boxing. It may have turned into a disaster for Vera if he got in too many exchanges with the busier Jardine.


fair enough on the weight draining as it is a tough subject to call.

and as for what I mean by too much movement it's all in the bold. but yeah that's basically what I'd say, I just felt too many times during the fight Vera was doing NOTHING ie either moving away from Jardine or just plain stalling

**actually would like to see the fight again just to check up on this

Vera had that really nice leg kick in the 2nd round that seemed to have Jardine a bit buckled and clearly f*cked up Keith's mobility .. yet Brandon for what ever reason failed to take advantage of it. it's in the bold, you said it.

which plays into what you said about Jardine's scrapiness. Vera fought too cautiously .. where Jardine was throwing up until the last second of the fight, and landed the last punches of the fight (i believe this came up here already)

and I'll agree with your last point as during an exchange in the first round Vera did land some clean shots, but Keith took them pretty well and actually had Vera in a bit of trouble in the last 20 or so seconds of the first round.

and then after that it's like Vera stayed away from throwing punches or something.

Bradon made the mistake or his coaches made the mistake of telling Vera to be too cautious. Brandon needed to take the fight to Jardine and be ultra agressive.

That is how Houston and Wand beat Jardine by being aggressive with their attacks.

i disagree the first round was the most exciting, IMO

blown opportunity by Vera, he had the fight gift wrapped with Jardine looking very to have a very hurt left knee

Vera stuck and moved ... except it was too much moving

he lost the fight more then Jardine won it.

That was a nasty kick to Jardine's knee in the first. However, I thought Jardine fought a very smart fight and earned the victory.

Third, Vera landed some great knee counters but didn't follow it up with anything else. he also buckled Jardine's knee with that one back leg front kick(Jardine even admitted during the post-fight interview that he was hurting for a bit from the kick) , Vera should've kept targeting that same knee ala Cung Le when he kept targeting Shamrock's forearm. It could've been the game changer for Vera.

Those kicks are very dangerous and should be illegal. You are advocating that Vera should have caused permanent damage to Jardine's knee.

I had Vera 2-1 up at the end. Jardine looked like he thought he had lost the bout before it was announced.

i had the dean of mean ahead 2-1, he deserved to win the fight.
he outworked vera and even with a busted knee and a cut on his head brandon couldn't stop jardine. the best moment of the fight was when vera caught jardine and dropped him, and the mean 1 got up and dropped vera

I gave the first round to the Dean, second round to Vera.. third round could be anyone's round but the Dean looked more aggressive than Vera.. Jardine was caught with some nice punches and kicks but Vera couldn't finish it up.. Brandon lacked the aggressiveness he got before.

Those kicks are very dangerous and should be illegal. You are advocating that Vera should have caused permanent damage to Jardine's knee.Haha, You're such a f$g, the last thing I'm concerned with is my opponents well being, of course, I wouldn't want anyone to die in the ring. But, receiving a kick, a punch, a knee, or an elbow to the head, liver, sternum can all cause permanent damage!!! And guess what, all those targets I mentioned are perfectly legal in all combat sports ie MMA, Muay Thai, boxing, etc....

I mean think about it, do you think Frank Mir didn't want to break Tim Sylvia's wrist. Do you think Urijah Faber's elbows are merely love taps on his opponents temples. Do you think Anderson Silva's knee strikes that ended up on Rich Franklin's face numerous times and ended up rearranging his facial structure was by accident(lol)

Like Iron Mike Tyson once said "We're in the hurt business". What do you think he meant by that. At the end of the day, it's kill or be killed!

Those kicks are very dangerous and should be illegal. You are advocating that Vera should have caused permanent damage to Jardine's knee.You're such a hypocrite, you're up in arms that I strongly supported for Vera to have kept goin' for Jardine's knee, but you have an avatar that has a fighter whose knee is about to crash into his opponents jaw, what possible damage could a knee possibly do to someone's jaw, hmm, where should I start, concussions, broken jaw, broken neck, I can go on and on, buddy.

Bradon made the mistake or his coaches made the mistake of telling Vera to be too cautious. Brandon needed to take the fight to Jardine and be ultra agressive.

That is how Houston and Wand beat Jardine by being aggressive with their attacks.They didn't tell Brandon to be cautious, if anyone is to blame for his cautious demeanor in the ring it's Vera and not his coach(es).

You made some good points as far as which type of fighters have had success against Jardine and maybe Brandon should've taken the same approach(Wanderlei and Alexander are sluggers, Vera ain't).

But, it's just Vera's style of fighting, he's simply a natural counter-puncher/kicker, it's his bread n butter. I think it would've been an easier fight for Jardine if Vera would've followed the same path that Wanderlei. Vera ain't Wanderlei, and the few exchanges that Vera had with Jardine, guess who won? Jardine.

Again good points on your part, unfortunately the gameplan would not have worked, I think a steady pressure would've worked. But not all out assault that Silva and Houston applied on Jardine.

Vera does not have that "I'll outwork you mentality". He's more of a tactician. If you look at most, if not all his victories, they were all off counters.

Like Iron Mike Tyson once said "We're in the hurt business". What do you think he meant by that. At the end of the day, it's kill or be killed![/QUOTE]

while you are correct that combat sports in essence are about hurting the opponent, and or beating them

I'd have to disagree with the kill or be killed analogy as yes it's you or them in there, but why so dramatic, and bring up killin? This isn't Mortal Kombat

you aren't literally trying to kill them, and sure hurting an opponent helps you win the fight, but I think Organik is referring more so to blatant illegal tactics such as rabbit punching .. which can severely **** your opponent up, thus the banning of shots to the back of the head

**dunno about the kicks Vera did to Jardine though

MAS .. good to know about Vera's style and what not, haven't seen too much of Brandon's fights really outside of the Andy Reese one and highlights on youtube

and yes Vera did get a quick knockdown on Jardine in round one, but by rounds end it was Vera who looked to be in trouble on the ground

They didn't tell Brandon to be cautious, if anyone is to blame for his cautious demeanor in the ring it's Vera and not his coach(es).

You made some good points as far as which type of fighters have had success against Jardine and maybe Brandon should've taken the same approach(Wanderlei and Alexander are sluggers, Vera ain't).

But, it's just Vera's style of fighting, he's simply a natural counter-puncher/kicker, it's his bread n butter. I think it would've been an easier fight for Jardine if Vera would've followed the same path that Wanderlei. Vera ain't Wanderlei, and the few exchanges that Vera had with Jardine, guess who won? Jardine.

Again good points on your part, unfortunately the gameplan would not have worked, I think a steady pressure would've worked. But not all out assault that Silva and Houston applied on Jardine.

Vera does not have that "I'll outwork you mentality". He's more of a tactician. If you look at most, if not all his victories, they were all off counters.

""Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu"

Haha, You're such a f$g, the last thing I'm concerned with is my opponents well being, of course, I wouldn't want anyone to die in the ring. But, receiving a kick, a punch, a knee, or an elbow to the head, liver, sternum can all cause permanent damage!!! And guess what, all those targets I mentioned are perfectly legal in all combat sports ie MMA, Muay Thai, boxing, etc....

I mean think about it, do you think Frank Mir didn't want to break Tim Sylvia's wrist. Do you think Urijah Faber's elbows are merely love taps on his opponents temples. Do you think Anderson Silva's knee strikes that ended up on Rich Franklin's face numerous times and ended up rearranging his facial structure was by accident(lol)

Like Iron Mike Tyson once said "We're in the hurt business". What do you think he meant by that. At the end of the day, it's kill or be killed!

You're such a hypocrite, you're up in arms that I strongly supported for Vera to have kept goin' for Jardine's knee, but you have an avatar that has a fighter whose knee is about to crash into his opponents jaw, what possible damage could a knee possibly do to someone's jaw, hmm, where should I start, concussions, broken jaw, broken neck, I can go on and on, buddy.

F.uck off, I was making a point that the straight kicks to the knee are particularly dangerous. Its kinda like kicks to the groin, its simply a week spot and targeting the area is a bit cheap if you ask me. You ever heard of an the ACL/MCL ligaments? Both have killed many a sports career.

And no I'm not a hypocrite, you are simply a moron.

F.uck off, I was making a point that the straight kicks to the knee are particularly dangerous. Its kinda like kicks to the groin, its simply a week spot and targeting the area is a bit cheap if you ask me. You ever heard of an the ACL/MCL ligaments? Both have killed many a sports career.

And no I'm not a hypocrite, you are simply a moron.You ever heard of getting hit in the head or jaw and end up with concussions. It has killed many boxing and football careers as well, and the long-term effects are even worse. Sh*t, we may as well ban combat sports and American football altogether with your point of view.

You ever heard of getting hit in the head or jaw and end up with concussions. It has killed many boxing and football careers as well, and the long-term effects are even worse. Sh*t, we may as well ban combat sports and American football altogether with your point of view.

If you prefer to draw such a ridiculous parallel, by all means who am I to argue.

If you prefer to draw such a ridiculous parallel, by all means who am I to argue.Ha ha, how is it a ridiculous parallel.

Organik: kicks to the knees should not be allowed because it can be a career ender.

MASGAGOMEXI: So can kicks or punches to the head/jaw, a powerful enough blow can snap someone's neck or cause a concussion. Too many concussions can lead to brain damage in later life.

How is that a ridiculous comparison? Strikes to the knee or head can both lead to serious injuries, end of

Ha ha, how is it a ridiculous parallel.

Organik: kicks to the knees should not be allowed because it can be a career ender.

MASGAGOMEXI: So can kicks or punches to the head/jaw, a powerful enough blow can snap someone's neck or cause a concussion. Too many concussions can lead to brain damage in later life.

How is that a ridiculous comparison? Strikes to the knee or head can both lead to serious injuries, end of

Strikes to the body/head are clearly a necessary part of the sport. Moreover, the ligaments of the knee represent are particular weak point in the human body and striking such a weak-point as the knee ligaments is somewhat akin to striking say the groin or the spine. Rules are necessary to protect fighters and quite simply, I was making a point that I felt attacking the knee ligaments should be illegal.

I guess one could say the temple is similar, it just seems like kicks straight to the knee are very dangerous from a career killing stand-point.