View Full Version : Couture vs. Lesnar - BIGGEST FIGHT IN UFC HISTORY!!!!


KESSLER
10-06-2008, 01:09 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/UFC_91.jpg

I have heard it all now.

Flab
10-06-2008, 01:14 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/UFC_91.jpg

I have heard it all now.

I'd rather play GoW2.

KESSLER
10-06-2008, 01:17 PM
I'd rather play GoW2.

Anything > GoW2.

Kakutogi-Gumi
10-06-2008, 01:21 PM
http://www.pspsps.tv/facepalm.jpg

KESSLER
10-06-2008, 01:22 PM
http://www.pspsps.tv/facepalm.jpg

That's exactly how I reacted when I saw the fight poster.

TheGreatA
10-06-2008, 01:23 PM
A 45-year old man who hasn't fought in over a year against a former WWE wrestler who has only had two fights in the UFC is supposed to be the biggest fight in UFC history?

That's sad.

I don't think I'll be watching this. How is the undercard?

Gojira
10-06-2008, 01:28 PM
wow. talk about hype.

Gojira
10-06-2008, 01:29 PM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASjH7X-jAY4

KESSLER
10-06-2008, 01:30 PM
A 45-year old man who hasn't fought in over a year against a former WWE wrestler who has only had two fights in the UFC is supposed to be the biggest fight in UFC history?

That's sad.

I don't think I'll be watching this. How is the undercard?

Main card
Heavyweight Championship bout: Randy Couture vs. Brock Lesnar
Lightweight bout: Kenny Florian vs. Joe Stevenson
Middleweight bout: Nate Quarry vs. Demian Maia
Middleweight bout: Amir Sadollah vs. Nick Catone
Heavyweight bout: Gabriel Gonzaga vs. Josh Hendricks

Preliminary card
Lightweight bout: Jeremy Stephens vs. Rafael dos Anjos
Welterweight bout: Tamdan McCrory vs. Dustin Hazelett
Welterweight bout: Matthew Riddle vs Ryan Thomas
Lightweight bout: Mark Bocek vs. Alvin Robinson

KESSLER
10-06-2008, 01:31 PM
My boy Kenny Florian fights.

jakkups
10-06-2008, 01:37 PM
Not the biggest fight with regards to the 2 fighters at hand, but it will definitely be one of the biggest money fights the UFC has put on. I see it doing a huge buyrate similar to that of UFC 66, my guess is between 800K to 1 million buys. Couture sells PPVs, and Lesnar sells PPVs so there is no doubt in my mind that this one will sell extremely well.

Kakutogi-Gumi
10-06-2008, 01:39 PM
A 45-year old man who hasn't fought in over a year against a former WWE wrestler who has only had two fights in the UFC is supposed to be the biggest fight in UFC history?

That's sad.

I don't think I'll be watching this. How is the undercard?

Well it is big on a technical stand point. Randy hasn't put away a Catcher at all and Brock's been studying his catch. But I wouldn't call it "historic".

Undercard is Kenny Flo vs. Josn Stevenson for #1 contendership. Damian Maia whose a blast to watch is taking on Nate Quarry and Gonzaga is taking on some local talent Josh "Heavy" Hendricks.

number6
10-06-2008, 01:55 PM
This fight will sell well but thats about it, ageing champ v 3 fight novice with potential. Its hardly the Ultimate Ultimate in terms of historic events.

YUHHHHHHH!
10-06-2008, 02:01 PM
Well it is big on a technical stand point. Randy hasn't put away a Catcher at all and Brock's been studying his catch. But I wouldn't call it "historic".

Undercard is Kenny Flo vs. Josn Stevenson for #1 contendership. Damian Maia whose a blast to watch is taking on Nate Quarry and Gonzaga is taking on some local talent Josh "Heavy" Hendricks.

Demian Maia is making some paper. Submission of the night in all three of his UFC fights so far. Dude is a monster.

Gears of War 2 is going to be epic, the only people who disagree with that are Playstation fanboys who aren't even worthy of discussion further than this.

Great marketing for this card, but all the fights other than the main event steal the show IMO.

Naps
10-06-2008, 02:10 PM
My boy Kenny Florian fights.

K-flo is one of my faves. I reckon he'll win the title pretty soon.

As for the fight poster, well what do you expect, it's just promotion. Should they be saying it's not a big fight, would that sell tickets?

KESSLER
10-06-2008, 02:13 PM
K-flo is one of my faves. I reckon he'll win the title pretty soon.

As for the fight poster, well what do you expect, it's just promotion. Should they be saying it's not a big fight, would that sell tickets?

Florian is exciting as hell to watch, he's also one of my favs.

Your avatar creeps me out.

Kakutogi-Gumi
10-06-2008, 02:18 PM
Demian Maia is making some paper. Submission of the night in all three of his UFC fights so far. Dude is a monster.


I can see Maia/Silva next December.

Pecs
10-06-2008, 04:22 PM
at least lensar is more skilful tan kimbo

Spare Moody
10-06-2008, 04:36 PM
Dana's just trying to do whatever he can to take attention away from non-UFC heavyweights like Fedor. he's just shooting himself in the foot though. people are gonna crave the winner of this match to fight Fedor more than ever.

jakkups
10-06-2008, 04:53 PM
Dana's just trying to do whatever he can to take attention away from non-UFC heavyweights like Fedor. he's just shooting himself in the foot though. people are gonna crave the winner of this match to fight Fedor more than ever.

Hardcore fans will crave a Fedor match, the casual fan, which is where the money is, won't give two monkey's about it, kinda sad, but true. The Affliction PPV buyrate proved that Fedor is no kind of draw in the USA, it barely done 90K buys even with a stacked main card and a decent undercard which they gave away for free. Prior to that he was only able to pull in 55K for PRIDEs first US show.

YUHHHHHHH!
10-06-2008, 06:39 PM
Fedor fights for too cheap. These mediocre heavyweights in the UFC are making a killing when Fedor is fighting for $300,000. The top P4P fighter on the planet's paycheck shouldn't be manipulated by a fatass American corporation trying to control the media and deflate him. Tim Sylvia made $500,000 more than Fedor to get dropped and choked in 30 seconds.

Some of this is bull****. But I promise you that Affliction catches up, it's run by smart people who don't trash talk other fighters. In my opinion, it represents the American version of PRIDE FC. If they can get a deal with DREAM and give the fighters the fights they want, the UFC will be through. I just hope that fighters don't become like boxers and start to favor the cash more than the fight and fans. This sport needs more Wanderlei's.

Brian13
10-06-2008, 06:53 PM
Main card
Heavyweight Championship bout: Randy Couture vs. Brock Lesnar
Lightweight bout: Kenny Florian vs. Joe Stevenson
Middleweight bout: Nate Quarry vs. Demian Maia
Middleweight bout: Amir Sadollah vs. Nick Catone
Heavyweight bout: Gabriel Gonzaga vs. Josh Hendricks

Preliminary card
Lightweight bout: Jeremy Stephens vs. Rafael dos Anjos
Welterweight bout: Tamdan McCrory vs. Dustin Hazelett
Welterweight bout: Matthew Riddle vs Ryan Thomas
Lightweight bout: Mark Bocek vs. Alvin Robinson
An OK card , Kenny -V- Joe should be interesting and so will Maia -V- Quarry otherwise its an OK card, they will get 1M buys but not 1.5M buys

Spare Moody
10-06-2008, 07:16 PM
Fedor fights for too cheap. These mediocre heavyweights in the UFC are making a killing when Fedor is fighting for $300,000. The top P4P fighter on the planet's paycheck shouldn't be manipulated by a fatass American corporation trying to control the media and deflate him. Tim Sylvia made $500,000 more than Fedor to get dropped and choked in 30 seconds.


seriously?? why is Fedor getting such **** paychecks??

AntonTheMeh
10-06-2008, 07:40 PM
its clearly about the money they think it will make.

Kakutogi-Gumi
10-06-2008, 07:58 PM
Fedor fights for too cheap. These mediocre heavyweights in the UFC are making a killing when Fedor is fighting for $300,000. The top P4P fighter on the planet's paycheck shouldn't be manipulated by a fatass American corporation trying to control the media and deflate him. Tim Sylvia made $500,000 more than Fedor to get dropped and choked in 30 seconds.


M-1 paid the difference and I think WAMMA put some money in the pot as well.

jakkups
10-06-2008, 08:25 PM
Fedor fights for too cheap. These mediocre heavyweights in the UFC are making a killing when Fedor is fighting for $300,000. The top P4P fighter on the planet's paycheck shouldn't be manipulated by a fatass American corporation trying to control the media and deflate him. Tim Sylvia made $500,000 more than Fedor to get dropped and choked in 30 seconds.

Some of this is bull****. But I promise you that Affliction catches up, it's run by smart people who don't trash talk other fighters. In my opinion, it represents the American version of PRIDE FC. If they can get a deal with DREAM and give the fighters the fights they want, the UFC will be through. I just hope that fighters don't become like boxers and start to favor the cash more than the fight and fans. This sport needs more Wanderlei's.

All hear'say friend and quite frankly I think you know in your heart of hearts the UFC will never be through, if anything it is just wishful thinking on your part. Fact is people said the same thing about PRIDE being able to swallow up the UFC and look what happened. You can keep looking for another "PRIDE" and hoping that something will come along that will emulate them but I guarantee it won't happen. PRIDE was PRIDE for a reason, anything trying to imitate it is and will always be a cheap rip-off. Plus imitating PRIDE from a business standpoint is a bad idea. If you give fighters what they want just like PRIDE did then you are doomed to failure. The UFC are the reason MMA is as big as it is not only in the USA but everywhere else around the world barring Japan. It's a fact, you may not like it but its the truth. They consistently sellout arenas, consistently average 350K to 450K on buyrates per month, have the most mainstream stars that are household names (and by that I mean that guys like Chuck, Randy and Tito are known by the casual television viewer not just the hardcore MMA fan), and are the most recognisable brand of MMA around. It is also run by a bunch of guys who actually know what they're doing, know how to promote, how to hype and because of that they're growing at a rapid rate which in turn has given companies such as EliteXC, Strikeforce and even Affliction the opportunities to do shows when they wouldn't have been able to do so. The UFC succeeds because it does something that PRIDE never did, and EliteXC, Strikeforce & Affliction don't do at the moment, and that is sell their product to the masses and look to cater for a wider audience. They don't care about hardcore fans who think they know it all because that's a very small and almost minute audience to market their company to full of low rewards. The casual viewer who has money to spend is the one they're after. They may not know much about MMA or anything for that matter but I guarantee if they were inclined to spend money on an MMA PPV it would be the UFC because its made itslf the most accessible brand out there.

As for Fedor's pay. It's simple, his guys couldn't get a good enough deal, and Affliction had every right to do so considering that the last time Fedor was on US soil he headlined a card that could only pull in 55K in buyrates. That isn't a good number, in fact its a dismal number. But that's what happens. same thing happened in boxing for years and still does in many ways with the best fighters not being able to pull in the numbers and getting the short end of the money. Its who sells the PPV and who brings in the big numbers that gets the dosh, pure business nothing more. Afflictions PPV wasn't even built around the coming of Fedor to the USA, it was built around the company's banishment from the UFC, which obviously didn't work well at all as the number proves. Does it mean the the UFC has better HWs? No, Does it mean that Dana is right when he says the UFC has the best HWs? No. But the numbers are what counts and the are in favour of the UFC at this point in time. And the fact that all of the other divisions in the UFC have the deepest talent pools in the world especially the marquee division of 205 then not having the top rated HW in the world isn't going to do their business any harm whatsoever. And therein lies the reality of what MMA is and will always be from now on, a business, and in business who has the most resources and makes the most money is gonna win.

neils7147933
10-07-2008, 12:52 AM
Didn't WEC call Faber/Pulver the Greatest MMA fight of all time when they were advertising it?

jakkups
10-07-2008, 01:03 AM
Didn't WEC call Faber/Pulver the Greatest MMA fight of all time when they were advertising it?

They called it the biggest fight in the history of the 145lb division, which it was considering Pulver was the king of featherweights prior to moving up to lightweight. Most would say Faber vs Yamamoto would be the biggest, and for hardcore fans, and myself it would be but fact is it hasn't happened so the WECs claims aren't totally false.

neils7147933
10-07-2008, 01:10 AM
They called it the biggest fight in the history of the 145lb division, which it was considering Pulver was the king of featherweights prior to moving up to lightweight. Most would say Faber vs Yamamoto would be the biggest, and for hardcore fans, and myself it would be but fact is it hasn't happened so the WECs claims aren't totally false.
The commercials I saw weren't that specific...

phallus
10-07-2008, 01:38 AM
Didn't WEC call Faber/Pulver the Greatest MMA fight of all time when they were advertising it?

every fight that promoters wanna make $ off is the greatest fight of all time. i don't care what the posters say, i'll watch lesnar donkey kong on randy's head but the real fight i'm there to see is kenflo and joe stevenson, after kenny beats joe daddy, and he will, he deserves a shot at bj penn. florian will be champ sometime next year and he'll hold that belt for a long time

Dice
10-07-2008, 01:57 AM
Florian has no shot against Penn, luckily penn is moving up in weight and cud care less about the lightweight title

toluco
10-07-2008, 02:31 AM
im a big fan of lesnar
can he win this fight what are his chances?
like a 60 percent?

American_Ninja
10-07-2008, 03:47 AM
A 45-year old man who hasn't fought in over a year against a former WWE wrestler who has only had two fights in the UFC is supposed to be the biggest fight in UFC history?

That's sad.

I don't think I'll be watching this. How is the undercard?

Like ur gonna turn it off when the main event starts.
Everybody loves a good freak show.

KESSLER
10-07-2008, 03:48 AM
im a big fan of lesnar
can he win this fight what are his chances?
like a 60 percent?

I like Lesnar too.

I doubt he will though, I'd say it's 60-40 in favor of Randy.

Virgil Caine
10-07-2008, 05:09 AM
But I promise you that Affliction catches up, it's run by smart people who don't trash talk other fighters. In my opinion, it represents the American version of PRIDE FC. If they can get a deal with DREAM and give the fighters the fights they want, the UFC will be through. I just hope that fighters don't become like boxers and start to favor the cash more than the fight and fans. This sport needs more Wanderlei's.

I do agree that Affliction is run by smart business people, and given the UFC's trend of watering down the competition as of late, I can potentially see affliction gaining ground by putting on superior fights with superior fighters.

Here's a thought, with Affliction now working with EliteXC, why not have Fedor-Arlovski, and put it on CBS? I wouldn't be surprised if this is already on the ledger.

neils7147933
10-07-2008, 10:08 AM
I do agree that Affliction is run by smart business people, and given the UFC's trend of watering down the competition as of late, I can potentially see affliction gaining ground by putting on superior fights with superior fighters.

Here's a thought, with Affliction now working with EliteXC, why not have Fedor-Arlovski, and put it on CBS? I wouldn't be surprised if this is already on the ledger.
Put Tito as the co-feature, make it a supercard. I like that...

ABOSWORTH
10-07-2008, 10:36 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/UFC_91.jpg

I have heard it all now.

:lol1: I was about to come in here and flame away. That is ridiculous. Biggest fight my ass.

jakkups
10-07-2008, 12:08 PM
I do agree that Affliction is run by smart business people, and given the UFC's trend of watering down the competition as of late, I can potentially see affliction gaining ground by putting on superior fights with superior fighters.

Here's a thought, with Affliction now working with EliteXC, why not have Fedor-Arlovski, and put it on CBS? I wouldn't be surprised if this is already on the ledger.

Fitch/GSP? Sherk/Penn? Rampage/Wanderlei? Silva/Henderson? Franklin/Henderson? You honestly believe fights like that are watered down? And as for superior fights with superior fighters, who are these peole you talk about? I mean, i'll give you the Heavyweights as far as a deeper talent pool being held outside of the UFC but thats just one division and its the marquee division of the sport, Light-Heavyweight is and as far as that talent pool is concerned the UFC has the best fighters at 205. They also have the best Middleweights, without doubt the best Welterweight division in the world and arguably the best Lightweight division. You honestly believe that as a whole Affliction and EliteXC has the better talent pool across the board? Because I certainly don't.

Affliction have an opportunity to put on some great Heavyweight matches, that's a certain. But after their last performance business wise, I don't think giving away a Fedor/Arlovski match for free is a smart option. Atencio isn't a promoter of any sort and has pretty much lucked out with Golden Boy looking to come on board. However they need to start marketing this company to the masses not just to hardcore MMA fans if they're looking for any type of longevity and for that matter look to make money in order to be a viable business. They didn't do that with their last PPV and they had stacked it with talent that MMA fans know but the casual viewer/consumer has never even heard of, doesn't know anything about, and for all intents and purposes doesn't give two monkeys about. The casual consumer doesn't need to know who is the best or for that matter care who is the best, they'll go for what they know and right now when it comes to MMA it's gonna be the UFC, it doesn't how talented we all know Fedor is, Arlovski is, Barnett is, and so on, catering to MMA fans isn't worth it because its a very small amount. Casual viewers/consumers are the people they need to get buying their PPVs because those are the people that are buying UFC PPVs on a regular basis which is where the money comes from. Plus relying on one division in order to somehow compete against the UFC just isn't gonna cut it, you need to have talent across the board which Affliction and EliteXC don't have. One thing that was good for Affliction was Arlovski's involvement on the CBS broadcast. It gave them free exposure which is a great thing, but the only downside to the whole event is that by the end of the show knowone went away talking about them, the story of the night and week for that matter was Kimbo.

YUHHHHHHH!
10-07-2008, 01:52 PM
There is no lying when people say that Dana White and the UFC are scared to mention the Heavyweights in Affliction on their broadcasts. Anyone who has seen Fedor fight knows that his matches are much more intense AND entertaining than what you'll find in the UFC, even to the average Joe watching MMA. I promise you this, and I mean PROMISE. Nogueira is a real fighter, he doesn't fight for the money. Same with Wanderlei and most of the former PRIDE FC participants. They will leave the UFC after they trash the competition or Dana White cannot market them because they won't take part in freakshows/throw fights for the money.

You're living in a fantasy land if you think the rednecks who make up 90% of the UFC's rankings actually love to fight. Once the real fighters smell the coffee after a few wins and move to the company with a better challenge, the party is over for the UFC. Their marketing is great for now, but it's terrible for the future. Trying to make a monopoly of a sport with uncontrolled variables (Ex: Wanderlei, Nogueira, Couture, Tito, Lyoto, Thiago Silva/Alves and many more) is flawed beyond recognition. The party will be over sooner than you think. Business Management 101. You can learn this **** in the first week of college.

jakkups
10-07-2008, 03:01 PM
There is no lying when people say that Dana White and the UFC are scared to mention the Heavyweights in Affliction on their broadcasts. Anyone who has seen Fedor fight knows that his matches are much more intense AND entertaining than what you'll find in the UFC, even to the average Joe watching MMA. I promise you this, and I mean PROMISE. Nogueira is a real fighter, he doesn't fight for the money. Same with Wanderlei and most of the former PRIDE FC participants. They will leave the UFC after they trash the competition or Dana White cannot market them because they won't take part in freakshows/throw fights for the money.

Of course they fight for money, any ******* with half a brain isn't going to fight for free now is he. They get paid handsomely by the UFC otherwise they wouldn't be there, Wanderlei even said himself (during his post fight interview after the Jardine match) that Dana is the best boss to work for and if you think that the UFC is a freakshow, then hell PRIDE was the ultimate freakshow. I mean Bob Sapp, Zulu, Giant Silva, Dos Caras. If I'm correct Nogueira fought two of them so your point about them not fighting freakshows is BS. At least with Lesnar you have a legit and accomplished athlete.


You're living in a fantasy land if you think the rednecks who make up 90% of the UFC's rankings actually love to fight. Once the real fighters smell the coffee after a few wins and move to the company with a better challenge, the party is over for the UFC. Their marketing is great for now, but it's terrible for the future. Trying to make a monopoly of a sport with uncontrolled variables (Ex: Wanderlei, Nogueira, Couture, Tito, Lyoto, Thiago Silva/Alves and many more) is flawed beyond recognition. The party will be over sooner than you think. Business Management 101. You can learn this **** in the first week of college.

Where in the hell did I say anything about loving to fight? My point wasn't about the fighters that love to fight. It was about the way the UFC markets the sport of MMA in comparison to other companies. And what makes you think that the UFC fighters aren't real fighters, they step in there and put it on the line take the wins and losses as they come. You are looking at this the wrong way simply because you are anti-ufc and still whining at the fact that Pride no longer exists. You have to approach this objectively and logically and the fact is that other tthan the HW division of the UFC the best and top ranked fighters compete in the UFC. Why? It's the most well known brand, it has the top ranked fighters therefore it has the toughest competition, and for the fighters themselves they have the opportunity to make money and have a good life. It isn't about whether or not fights are exciting and intense and wild, its about the facts. Numbers don't lie just take a look at the year so far:

UFC 80 - 225,000 buys
UFC 81 - 650,000 buys
UFC 82 - 325,000 buys
UFC 83 - 525,000 buys
UFC 84 - 475,000 buys
UFC 85 - 225,000 buys
UFC 86 - 520,000 buys
UFC 87 - 625,000 buys

Affliction - 85,000 buys

Sorry but I live in the real world son, the party ain't over and from the looks of the last two PPVs and the upcoming ones that have already been set it doesn't look like it will be over at all. The numbers prove that people are buying PPVs in their thousands, in fact those 7 PPVs held this year for the UFC equate to an average of 500,000 buys per month. That's a clear 100,000 more than the final year average for last years PPV buyrates, which is an improvement and proves that the marketing is working exceptionally well.

As far as a challenge is concerned, tell me will GSP leave the UFC to find a better challenge? No, Why? Because the top WW are in the UFC. Will Anderson Silva look to leave the UFC to find a better challenge? No, Why? because all the MWs round the world know he's the man and if they want to be the man they have to come to him. I'm living in a fantasy world? Please son, I'm in the real world, looking at the facts, it is you living in a fantasy world with all the assumptions that this is gonna happen, and this guy is gonna leave here and the UFC will die and blah blah blah. Keep wishing and assuming that your dream will come true, I work with facts and what is real not on woulda, coulda, shoulda notions that have no credence. MMA isn't a pure sport anymore nor was it ever, even with Pride. They were no different than the UFC. The UFC marketed their company as the number 1 organisation in the world with the best fighters. PRIDE marketed their product as something that involved honour and valor. The difference is that you bought into PRIDEs marketing instead of the UFC it plain and simple, and now that is what you look for when it comes to MMA. But you fail to realise is that MMA is a business, and the aim is to make money. PRIDE couldn't do it, their fighters began jumping ship (Herring, Crocop, Jackson) to the point whereby they had been swallowed up by the UFC. The UFC never once got involved in PRIDEs business and in fact tried to do business with them but PRIDE didn't want it. They stuck to their product and they have created a formula for success in combat sports that rivals boxing. PRIDE never even came close on a business scale to the heights of which the UFC are reaching right now both in the USA and around the world.

Harms
10-07-2008, 03:15 PM
Well it is big on a technical stand point. Randy hasn't put away a Catcher at all and Brock's been studying his catch. But I wouldn't call it "historic".

Undercard is Kenny Flo vs. Josn Stevenson for #1 contendership. Damian Maia whose a blast to watch is taking on Nate Quarry and Gonzaga is taking on some local talent Josh "Heavy" Hendricks.

How is this for a #1 contendership? For Kenny, I guess, but Joe was recently torn apart by Penn. I can't see that he has improved that much from the last time Penn beat his ass.

Virgil Caine
10-07-2008, 05:04 PM
Fitch/GSP? Sherk/Penn? Rampage/Wanderlei? Silva/Henderson? Franklin/Henderson? You honestly believe fights like that are watered down? And as for superior fights with superior fighters, who are these peole you talk about? I mean, i'll give you the Heavyweights as far as a deeper talent pool being held outside of the UFC but thats just one division and its the marquee division of the sport, Light-Heavyweight is and as far as that talent pool is concerned the UFC has the best fighters at 205. They also have the best Middleweights, without doubt the best Welterweight division in the world and arguably the best Lightweight division. You honestly believe that as a whole Affliction and EliteXC has the better talent pool across the board? Because I certainly don't.

Affliction have an opportunity to put on some great Heavyweight matches, that's a certain. But after their last performance business wise, I don't think giving away a Fedor/Arlovski match for free is a smart option. Atencio isn't a promoter of any sort and has pretty much lucked out with Golden Boy looking to come on board. However they need to start marketing this company to the masses not just to hardcore MMA fans if they're looking for any type of longevity and for that matter look to make money in order to be a viable business. They didn't do that with their last PPV and they had stacked it with talent that MMA fans know but the casual viewer/consumer has never even heard of, doesn't know anything about, and for all intents and purposes doesn't give two monkeys about. The casual consumer doesn't need to know who is the best or for that matter care who is the best, they'll go for what they know and right now when it comes to MMA it's gonna be the UFC, it doesn't how talented we all know Fedor is, Arlovski is, Barnett is, and so on, catering to MMA fans isn't worth it because its a very small amount. Casual viewers/consumers are the people they need to get buying their PPVs because those are the people that are buying UFC PPVs on a regular basis which is where the money comes from. Plus relying on one division in order to somehow compete against the UFC just isn't gonna cut it, you need to have talent across the board which Affliction and EliteXC don't have. One thing that was good for Affliction was Arlovski's involvement on the CBS broadcast. It gave them free exposure which is a great thing, but the only downside to the whole event is that by the end of the show knowone went away talking about them, the story of the night and week for that matter was Kimbo.

I never said that Affliction has better talent, but I do see a trend on the part of the UFC of watering down the competition, which it seems is really a result of the Ultimate Fighter craze. I am not referring to fights and fighters such as "Fitch/GSP? Sherk/Penn? Rampage/Wanderlei? Silva/Henderson? Franklin/Henderson?" What I am saying is that in spite of their being the top US organization for sometime, the UFC has shown a trend of promoting fighters onto televised cards more so on the basis of their recognizability from the Ultimate Fighter than for their fighting talent. In other words, The Ultimate Fighter has become a fast-track for many fighters to UFC television success.

So essentially, you are simply putting words in my mouth because I never compared the UFC's talent pool to that of Affliction's or EliteXC's. What I was saying is that I feel the UFC's talent pool has been on the decline in its own right, and that Affliction is clearly capable of putting on great fights. Also, I never predicted that Affliction would succeed; I simply said that "I can potentially see affliction gaining ground," which is not to say that I necessarily believe they will succeed.

Edit: You really should stop with the UFC nutthugging if you want to be objective and accurate about this. As evidence of nutthugging, I must point out your scathing defense of the UFC against Bricks and your automatic assumption that my post was attacking the UFC. I personally could give a **** about the banner under which good fights occur; however, in my opinion the UFC is doing a number of things which are undermining the development of the sport, while engaging in some business practices which are questionable to say the least. I think the question of whether these practices are sustainable is a legitimate question.

jakkups
10-07-2008, 05:48 PM
If anything the Ultimate Fighter has not only helped the sport but helped give opportunities to some of the USA's up and comers which might not have got the chance to do so if the show hadn't been around. Fact is it has given the UFC some great talent such as Koscheck, Sanchez, Evans, Jardine, Diaz, Stevenson, Florian, Leben, Bisping, Quarry and many others as well as producing 2 world champions. I don't see that as watering down anything, I see it more as giving the opportunities and a platform for these guys to ply their trade. Let's be real about this, Fedor wasn't a superstar when he first started out, nor was Nogueira, nor was Liddell, or Couture for that matter. They all had to start somewhere and just because the Ultimate Fighter gives the newer fighters a path to potential stardom doesn't mean it has watered down anything. The UFC has more ranked fighters across the board then any other organisation and they always bring in fresh talent on every card. Whether the talent succeeds or not is out of their hands because they need to win in order to get more opportunities and essentially that is creating competition. I mean 2 years ago would anyone believe me if I had said that Forrest Griffin was going to beat both Shogun & Rampage and become a world champion? No. Would anyone have believed me if I said that Rashad Evans would KO Chuck Liddell? No. Hell I wouldn't even believe me if I had said it. But guess what, it happened, and they did it by earning their way up the ranks just like every other fighter that is or was a star. Other organisations, particularly EliteXC rely on talent which had already made their names elsewhere, some from PRIDE but the rest predominantly from the UFC. Plus you can't just always promote the same fighters over and over. If you did how would guys ever get a chance to prove themselves.

And yes there is some truth in the UFC promoting guys on their shows due to them being recognisable to the viewer both MMA fan and casual. But they would be stupid not to do so. That's like Golden Boy promoting a PPV on HBO full of unknown fighters that knowone has even heard of, makes no sense whatsover. You honestly think networks are going to allow that. There has to be a balance of starpower with fresh faces otherwise you are shooting yourself in the foot because you don't have other fighters that have the potential to be stars getting any exposure whatsoever, it's just smart promoting.

EDIT: It's not nuthugging whatsoever, it's me basically trying to level out the playing field since Bricks is quite obviously a Pride nuthugger since he can't seem to say anything good about the UFC because he always brings up Pride. I too could give a monkey's about what banner a fight takes place or what company a fighter fights for. I just give the UFC the respect it deserves for doing more the sport of MMA than any other company and for providing guys who may not have had the chance to ply their trade a huge platform to do it on. Do I agree with everything the UFC does, no. I hate the fact that they don't co-promote, I hate the fact that their contracts are so demanding and don't give much room for the fighters to try out their skills in other companies. I hate the fact that alot of fighters are seemingly overlooked by the organisation when it comes to title shots. I also don't like the fact that it is run, on the surface, by a guy who likes to downplay other fighters, most notably Fedor and Tito, because they're not fighting for his company and when he doesn't have the balls to step in there himself. But nevertheless I respect the fact that they constantly bring us top notch fights, great shows and fresh talent on a consistent basis. Its not nuthugging, its appreciation. Just like I appreciate Affliction for giving us some top notch HW matchups that weren't possible with the UFC. And I hope they continue to do so, I just don't see them being able to sustain it without them being able to bolster their roster and promote their events on a mass scale instead of trying to cater to what the small group of MMA purists want to see all the time.

You see the business practices of the UFC may not be to everyones liking, including my own but they have been able to sustain it for over 3 years and and have branched out more in these 3 years than they have in its entire history. The fact that they have done shows over here in the UK and Ireland, in Canada and reportedly planned shows in Mexicao, Germany and Asia shows to me that they are very smart with their business practices and are looking to break open new markets for MMA. That doesn't just benefit them, it benefits other organisations also. But that is all dependent on other organisations creating their own niche with their own stars, not usings name power that has already been through the UFC chopping block.

Virgil Caine
10-07-2008, 07:44 PM
I guess its a difference of opinion; I see recycled TUF cast members and you see up-and-coming talent. I do not mean to say that the show has not produced legitimate talent, however I think it's obviously the case that being a cast member gives a definitive advantage in getting UFC bookings, talent aside.

And you may be right about the UFC's future, again I was just saying that they clearly have some questionable business practices. Sure they have been successful, but they have done so in a manner which is boarderline criminal in many cases (i.e., we have anti-trust laws for a reason). I recall reading that the Fertittis were tight with some of the NSAC execs, and that after their purchase of the UFC, the same guys basically legitimized the sport after working with the Fertittis to revize the rules. This is not inherently wrong or illegitimate, but it is notable because the de-legitimization of the sport previously is what had lead to the failure of the prior UFC enterprise. Hence, these back-room dealings are worthy of consideration. Moreover, the fighter contracts are clearly very shady as well, and the Couture court case was a clear illustration of this. If not for the huge revenue projected to come out of UFC 93, I am sure they would still be in court. These are only examples, but I think it's fair to say that some of the UFC's dealings have been questionable, if not shady, from a clean-business standpoint.

Can they sustain it? Who knows, I was merely posing a hypothetical statement. In any case, I really can't see the point in defending a corporation such as the UFC, whether you call it paying respect or what have you. As fans, it seems in our interest to push for reform, considering the huge flaws which quite clearly exist. The sport of MMA does not depend on the UFC, similar to how MMA in Japan did not depend on Pride. Conversly, the sports potential is limited if it is dominated by a single company.

jakkups
10-07-2008, 08:16 PM
And you may be right about the UFC's future, again I was just saying that they clearly have some questionable business practices. Sure they have been successful, but they have done so in a manner which is boarderline criminal in many cases (i.e., we have anti-trust laws for a reason). I recall reading that the Fertittis were tight with some of the NSAC execs, and that after their purchase of the UFC, the same guys basically legitimized the sport after working with the Fertittis to revize the rules. This is not inherently wrong or illegitimate, but it is notable because the de-legitimization of the sport previously is what had lead to the failure of the prior UFC enterprise. Hence, these back-room dealings are worthy of consideration. Moreover, the fighter contracts are clearly very shady as well, and the Couture court case was a clear illustration of this. If not for the huge revenue projected to come out of UFC 93, I am sure they would still be in court. These are only examples, but I think it's fair to say that some of the UFC's dealings have been questionable, if not shady, from a clean-business standpoint.

Lorenzo was on the board before he left to dedicate his time to his businesses. True in that it is a bit shady but it did help in legitimizing the sport and getting back on PPV which we can all agree is a good thing. Plus they really helped create a sport instead of a spectacle especially in the USA. It may seem shady but until something comes to light then it's all hear'say Im afraid. Plus contracts are what they are, again sad but true. I doubt any of these guys signing the contracts have a gun to their head so if they sign on the dotted line then they are bound to them unless there is clauses which allow them to get out pretty easy.


Can they sustain it? Who knows, I was merely posing a hypothetical statement. In any case, I really can't see the point in defending a corporation such as the UFC, whether you call it paying respect or what have you. As fans, it seems in our interest to push for reform, considering the huge flaws which quite clearly exist. The sport of MMA does not depend on the UFC, similar to how MMA in Japan did not depend on Pride. Conversly, the sports potential is limited if it is dominated by a single company.

Totally agree, but what stops these other companies from flourishing is too much focus on what the UFC is doing majority of the time. And by this I mean the constant use of former talnt, referring to it as former talent, and the constant mentioning of it in the press. Part of this is Dana White being clever enough to get underneath these other promoters skins like he has recently with Jared Shaw and in retaliation they say stuff about him. Only problem with that is that you are giving him free press and the UFC free press. What they should be dong is focusing on their talent, and their company and trying to create fresh faces on a consistent basis and not relying on a street fighter to bring in the ratings. With that they can branch out further, which in turn can lead to broader shared prosperity among fighters both in career options and monetary options. The focus shouldn't be at trying to outdo the UFC which most of the other organisations in the USA (mainly EliteXC and Affliction) are trying to do. They need to build up PPVs properly, advertise them on a mass scale, bring in mainstream advertising to help out with finances, and most importantly bolster the roster, put on cards not just filled out with star upon star. I mean if you look at the Affliction PPV most of those matches prior to the Fedor/Sylvia fight could've been main events. Why put them all on the same card. Why not try think about the future and spread out these fights over a number of PPVs instead? That way you don't take such a battering on the buyrates and the fighter payouts per PPV and that way the hype for future matchups between the winners and the losers of the matches on the cards can be built up to the point where even the casual viewer may be inclined to purchase the PPV. I'm not saying that it would be a guarantee but it would be the smarter way to do it IMO. The UFC does do this IMO and I think it's a very smart way of sustaining the business while still building up PPV fights that are credible and have major interest. Like I said before the numbers don't lie so they must be doing something right! LOL.

Virgil Caine
10-07-2008, 10:46 PM
Plus contracts are what they are, again sad but true. I doubt any of these guys signing the contracts have a gun to their head so if they sign on the dotted line then they are bound to them unless there is clauses which allow them to get out pretty easy.

I am certainly not a lawyer, but the fact is contracts are binding only to the extent that they are legal. The Couture-UFC court battle would not have come about had there not been legal grounds to challenge the UFC contract, hence we have clear indication that the UFC's contracts are challengable from a legal standpoint. Couture-Lesnar itself came about as part of an out-of-court settlement, with the legal issues themselves going unresolved. It is for these reasons that I feel it is valid to question the legitimacy of the UFC's contracts.

jakkups
10-07-2008, 11:41 PM
I am certainly not a lawyer, but the fact is contracts are binding only to the extent that they are legal. The Couture-UFC court battle would not have come about had there not been legal grounds to challenge the UFC contract, hence we have clear indication that the UFC's contracts are challengable from a legal standpoint. Couture-Lesnar itself came about as part of an out-of-court settlement, with the legal issues themselves going unresolved. It is for these reasons that I feel it is valid to question the legitimacy of the UFC's contracts.

The dispute itself, and this is from what I have read from various sources reporting on this issue, was over his employment contract as opposed to his promotional contract. And essentially Couture said himself that it was the pay that was the problem. Now that is all fair and good for Couture if he felt he wanted more pay and felt he was getting the short end of the deal from a promotional point of view. As far as employment is concerned he still had 2 fights left on his employment contract and from what I have read it would appear that unless the contract was terminated from the UFCs end then he was still bound to them. From a fighter's perspective it's a crappy situation, from the UFCs perspective its them covering there behinds. Plus as you said Couture back to the UFC wasn't just the promise of a big money fight with Lesnar. The UFC didn't terminate his contract and played the waiting game, let the lawyers do the work and eventually Couture came back, with a new 3-fight contract and bigger money to go with it. To be honest I'm sure the UFC are at fault to an extent. However, this is not the first time Couture has done this, and as much as I respect and admire Couture he certainly knows what he is doing, and he knows how to play the game, and right now in his life he is in it for the money and I don't blame him one bit. He's 45 and for all intents and purpose doesn't have much time left so he's entitled to the big money.

Virgil Caine
10-08-2008, 12:02 AM
The dispute itself, and this is from what I have read from various sources reporting on this issue, was over his employment contract as opposed to his promotional contract. And essentially Couture said himself that it was the pay that was the problem. Now that is all fair and good for Couture if he felt he wanted more pay and felt he was getting the short end of the deal from a promotional point of view. As far as employment is concerned he still had 2 fights left on his employment contract and from what I have read it would appear that unless the contract was terminated from the UFCs end then he was still bound to them. From a fighter's perspective it's a crappy situation, from the UFCs perspective its them covering there behinds. Plus as you said Couture back to the UFC wasn't just the promise of a big money fight with Lesnar. The UFC didn't terminate his contract and played the waiting game, let the lawyers do the work and eventually Couture came back, with a new 3-fight contract and bigger money to go with it. To be honest I'm sure the UFC are at fault to an extent. However, this is not the first time Couture has done this, and as much as I respect and admire Couture he certainly knows what he is doing, and he knows how to play the game, and right now in his life he is in it for the money and I don't blame him one bit. He's 45 and for all intents and purpose doesn't have much time left so he's entitled to the big money.

Though valid points, this post does nothing to invalidate my point that the Couture court case gives precedent that the UFC contracts are chalengable from a legal standpoint. I understand that Couture has used his lawyers to gain leverage for a contract renegotiation replete with higher pay, but this is kind of beside the point. What I am saying is that the fact that Couture's legal team had grounds to challenge the contract gives precedent that the UFC contracts are indeed challengable from a legal standpoint. The fact of the matter is, very few fighters are in a position to challenge the UFC establishment, and none are to the extent that Couture is able to. In reality, Couture seems to be the big winner in all of this, as I am sure he is to be well compensated for his services; although, clearly the UFC wins as well because they get to save face while at the same time banking on Couture's name and popularity.

youngswish23
10-08-2008, 12:23 AM
ima couture fan but this fights sux. brock has no exp. im good on this one.

jakkups
10-08-2008, 12:25 AM
Though valid points, this post does nothing to invalidate my point that the Couture court case gives precedent that the UFC contracts are chalengable from a legal standpoint. I understand that Couture has used his lawyers to gain leverage for a contract renegotiation replete with higher pay, but this is kind of beside the point. What I am saying is that the fact that Couture's legal team had grounds to challenge the contract gives precedent that the UFC contracts are indeed challengable from a legal standpoint. The fact of the matter is, very few fighters are in a position to challenge the UFC establishment, and none are to the extent that Couture is able to. In reality, Couture seems to be the big winner in all of this, as I am sure he is to be well compensated for his services; although, clearly the UFC wins as well because they get to save face while at the same time banking on Couture's name and popularity.

Couture's lawyers obviously tried to challenge the legality and failed simply because the conditions within the contract favoured the UFC as far as ancillary rights were concerned. His promotional contract obviously had him bound to the UFC and anything outside of the UFC that Couture had been doing they were probably wanting a piece of it aswell. Pretty disrespectful on the UFCs part, but not out of line with legal rights. It's similar to a pro-wrestler leaving the WWE and wanting to use there gimmick or nickname outside of the WWE, they would have to give the WWE their cut in order to do so or a movie producer giving permission for the use of images and characters for merchandise and so forth. It's unethical but the onus has to be on the fighter because they're the ones entering the agreement when they sign.

I agree with you they both win because they both get the big payday due to it being not only an intriguing matchup but the return of the champion. This is an even bigger payday than they both would've got if Couture hadn't taken a leave of absence.

Virgil Caine
10-08-2008, 12:31 AM
Couture's lawyers obviously tried to challenge the legality and failed simply because the conditions within the contract favoured the UFC as far as ancillary rights were concerned.

This is the very point you are missing, Couture's lawyers did not fail. Failure would've been a defeat in court; rather, they established leverage, and circumstances occurred in such a way that an out-of-court settlement which included a contract renegotiation was agreed upon. The broader legal questions were left, and remain, unresolved is what I am getting at.

jakkups
10-08-2008, 12:43 AM
This is the very point you are missing, Couture's lawyers did not fail. Failure would've been a defeat in court; rather, they established leverage, and circumstances occurred in such a way that an out-of-court settlement which included a contract renegotiation was agreed upon. The broader legal questions were left, and remain, unresolved is what I am getting at.

But if the whole point was to establish leverage for a contract negotiation why not being why wouldn't they renegotiate it prior to Couture wanting to leave. And every time Couture tried to appear elsewhere during his time away court injuctions were granted for the UFC which Couture's lawyers subsequently couldn't get overturned so in my eyes they didn't succeed either because Couture seemingly wanted out yet didn't get it unless you believe that Couture was playing the game from the get go. The broader legal questions were to do with the ancillary rights which are self explanatory and something that Couture couldn't get away from once he had signed his contract. I mean even when he appeared on the Affliction PPV he had to ask for permission to do so.

Virgil Caine
10-08-2008, 05:36 AM
But if the whole point was to establish leverage for a contract negotiation why not being why wouldn't they renegotiate it prior to Couture wanting to leave. And every time Couture tried to appear elsewhere during his time away court injuctions were granted for the UFC which Couture's lawyers subsequently couldn't get overturned so in my eyes they didn't succeed either because Couture seemingly wanted out yet didn't get it unless you believe that Couture was playing the game from the get go. The broader legal questions were to do with the ancillary rights which are self explanatory and something that Couture couldn't get away from once he had signed his contract. I mean even when he appeared on the Affliction PPV he had to ask for permission to do so.

I'm not going to argue over peanuts. It's the professional business world is all I can say.

GreatestIam
10-08-2008, 11:11 AM
Its defintely gonna be the biggest fight in UFC history.. I mean damn its a lot of *****ez on here hating.. I mean its Brock ****in Lesner man child, The next biggest thing VS the ****in natural... This fight will be big may break the 1.5 mark

jakkups
10-08-2008, 11:52 AM
I'm not going to argue over peanuts. It's the professional business world is all I can say.

This was my point from the start, business=money, money=business, and just like any business the UFC play the game and play it very well.

Virgil Caine
10-08-2008, 05:03 PM
This was my point from the start, business=money, money=business, and just like any business the UFC play the game and play it very well.

Yes, and businesses are subject to laws is the point I was making. Obviously, the UFC is in a position to challenge any injunction which comes against them, but that does not mean their activities are necessarily legal; hence it is appropriate to criticize the UFC from a business-ethics standpoint.

jakkups
10-08-2008, 07:42 PM
Yes, and businesses are subject to laws is the point I was making. Obviously, the UFC is in a position to challenge any injunction which comes against them, but that does not mean their activities are necessarily legal; hence it is appropriate to criticize the UFC from a business-ethics standpoint.

I am with you in that it is fine to criticise the UFC for its business ethics, however the agreements in which they draw up for guys like Couture are what they are. Whether the general populous of mma fan may not agree with such demanding contracts it is up to the fighter whether they sign or not and by signing they agree to thoses terms and conditions by which they are legally obliged to follow unless there is a breach of contract by either party. Whether it is ethical is a matter of opinion, however the legality is something completely different. Again it was about ancilliary rights which Couture had a problem with in is contract which meant that the UFC was entitled to a cut of his activities outside of the UFC with regards to his image and his merchandise. By this point I see this being resolved since he is back with them however the practice itself (ancillary rights) is not illegal at all, unethical, but not illegal. Now can problems arise from this, without doubt yes. However, what most fans fail to give proper attention to is the fact that in terms of marketing and exposure their is no other company like the UFC in MMA. No company even comes close. If you become a big star in the UFC you can become an even bigger star by sticking with them due to the reach the UFC has with the audience and demographics both nationally and internationally which is IMO a big reason as to why so many fighters within the UFC are still there now, and with the case of Couture, came back to them.

Virgil Caine
10-08-2008, 08:27 PM
I am with you in that it is fine to criticise the UFC for its business ethics, however the agreements in which they draw up for guys like Couture are what they are. Whether the general populous of mma fan may not agree with such demanding contracts it is up to the fighter whether they sign or not and by signing they agree to thoses terms and conditions by which they are legally obliged to follow unless there is a breach of contract by either party. Whether it is ethical is a matter of opinion, however the legality is something completely different. Again it was about ancilliary rights which Couture had a problem with in is contract which meant that the UFC was entitled to a cut of his activities outside of the UFC with regards to his image and his merchandise. By this point I see this being resolved since he is back with them however the practice itself (ancillary rights) is not illegal at all, unethical, but not illegal. Now can problems arise from this, without doubt yes. However, what most fans fail to give proper attention to is the fact that in terms of marketing and exposure their is no other company like the UFC in MMA. No company even comes close. If you become a big star in the UFC you can become an even bigger star by sticking with them due to the reach the UFC has with the audience and demographics both nationally and internationally which is IMO a big reason as to why so many fighters within the UFC are still there now, and with the case of Couture, came back to them.

You are still missing my point. It is rather simple, contracts are subject to laws and regulations. As such, a contract is binding only to the extent that it is legal. Being that I am not a contract lawyer and I have never reviewed a UFC contract, it is not for me to say if they are legal or not. However, that Couture's lawyers challenged the contract (and as I recall, the legal challenge was on numerous grounds) gives us clear indication that the contracts are challengable on a legal basis. And of course Couture was 'playing' along and of course it all comes back to the bottom line; however, the reality remains that the legality of a UFC contract was challenged in the Couture case, with the issue itself remaining unresolved in the end.

And FYI, 'business ethics' is a technical term from the field of business, used to refer to unscrupulous business practices.

YUHHHHHHH!
10-08-2008, 10:01 PM
Its defintely gonna be the biggest fight in UFC history.. I mean damn its a lot of *****ez on here hating.. I mean its Brock ****in Lesner man child, The next biggest thing VS the ****in natural... This fight will be big may break the 1.5 mark

****in Lesnar? The next biggest thing?

**** you, **** you, **** you. Why do these fat ****ing fanboys think that Lesnar is hard? I'm going to use profanity here, but I am speaking the truth.

Brock Lesnar is a ****ing *****. I promise you this. There is no other way of saying it. Saying that Lesnar is the next big thing is the equivalent to saying that George W. Bush knows how to run a country. It's the equivalent to saying that Ryan Seacrest could have knocked out Ali in his prime. It's like ****ing saying that Joe Rogan isn't a spastic freak. It is one of the most FALSE statements I've ever heard.

Brock Lesnar is a ****ing cunt and a *****. Get over it, you fat ****. You ****ing fanboy, you retard.

Sorry for the profanity, I just can't stand these people.

Virgil Caine
10-08-2008, 10:31 PM
****in Lesnar? The next biggest thing?

**** you, **** you, **** you. Why do these fat ****ing fanboys think that Lesnar is hard? I'm going to use profanity here, but I am speaking the truth.

Brock Lesnar is a ****ing *****. I promise you this. There is no other way of saying it. Saying that Lesnar is the next big thing is the equivalent to saying that George W. Bush knows how to run a country. It's the equivalent to saying that Ryan Seacrest could have knocked out Ali in his prime. It's like ****ing saying that Joe Rogan isn't a spastic freak. It is one of the most FALSE statements I've ever heard.

Brock Lesnar is a ****ing cunt and a *****. Get over it, you fat ****. You ****ing fanboy, you retard.

Sorry for the profanity, I just can't stand these people.

In actuality I largely agree, though I will note that Brock does have significant physical capabilities. However, I do agree that he is (seemingly) a ***** and Couture should certainly be able to put him to the test. I wouldn't be surprised of Couture knocks out Lesnar on their feet.

YUHHHHHHH!
10-08-2008, 10:36 PM
In actuality I largely agree, though I will note that Brock does have significant physical capabilities. However, I do agree that he is (seemingly) a ***** and Couture should certainly be able to put him to the test. I wouldn't be surprised of Couture knocks out Lesnar on their feet.

**** pisses me off to no end. I want to visit the ****ing pale Brock Lesnar fan boys sitting in their Metallica T-Shirts and knock them the **** out. Split ends and all. It's just a pet peeve of mine, I cannot stand that ****.

This is one of the few cases where I lose all intelligence in my arguments. I just want to kill.

Blair_Wells#32
10-09-2008, 01:07 AM
:haha: wow u really don't like brock lesnar fans. well i have 2 come on here an say im one of em, but i agree that he didn't deserve a shot at the title so early.
he shoulda worked his way up 2 a shot in maybe a year or 2 down the line.
but he has one now against couture and i think lesnar can win it, i really don't see couture beating brock, i truly believe brock is 2 strong an quick for him as well as a better wrestler.
i don't think brock will b dumb enough 2 stand with couture an will take it 2 the ground quick and often throwing knees 2 the ribs an a shots 2 the head.
last i checked couture was not known for subs off his back.
should b a good fight but i don't see couture winning in any aspect of it unless brocks dumb enough 2 stand an trade.
and unless brock trains his ass off for the next year in straight sub defense i don't see him holding the belt long with contenders like nog and werdum out there.

khelbanzon
10-09-2008, 05:52 AM
Couture will have a very big advantage in experience, but I think Brock will give him a hard fight.

GreatestIam
10-09-2008, 06:01 AM
****in Lesnar? The next biggest thing?

**** you, **** you, **** you. Why do these fat ****ing fanboys think that Lesnar is hard? I'm going to use profanity here, but I am speaking the truth.

Brock Lesnar is a ****ing *****. I promise you this. There is no other way of saying it. Saying that Lesnar is the next big thing is the equivalent to saying that George W. Bush knows how to run a country. It's the equivalent to saying that Ryan Seacrest could have knocked out Ali in his prime. It's like ****ing saying that Joe Rogan isn't a spastic freak. It is one of the most FALSE statements I've ever heard.

Brock Lesnar is a ****ing cunt and a *****. Get over it, you fat ****. You ****ing fanboy, you retard.

Sorry for the profanity, I just can't stand these people.

Man **** you you lumberjack dick suckin *****... You aint said **** but ass and cookies.. Brock is a beast on pure strength, aglity and size... He has already fought former champs and made guys whove been doing this **** for years look like little kids, the way he handles them... LOL and his only fought what 3-4 fights with one loss in a fight he was dominating! George Bush does run the country fat ****.. so why compare that to Lesner..? oh i see cuz you know his the next biggest thing, his already in a title fight... Man just cuz you dont like him dont mean he's ***** it just means your ass is grade A goat cum dumb.. lol Man go eat a ****ing goldfish **** it out and tell ya mom your **** floats and swims... *******

YUHHHHHHH!
10-09-2008, 03:11 PM
Man **** you you lumberjack dick suckin *****... You aint said **** but ass and cookies.. Brock is a beast on pure strength, aglity and size... He has already fought former champs and made guys whove been doing this **** for years look like little kids, the way he handles them... LOL and his only fought what 3-4 fights with one loss in a fight he was dominating! George Bush does run the country fat ****.. so why compare that to Lesner..? oh i see cuz you know his the next biggest thing, his already in a title fight... Man just cuz you dont like him dont mean he's ***** it just means your ass is grade A goat cum dumb.. lol Man go eat a ****ing goldfish **** it out and tell ya mom your **** floats and swims... *******

It's funny that an inbred like yourself would try to insult MY intelligence. I think that my posts around here have clearly showed that I am more knowledgeable on the subject than you.

You're trying to tell me you're rooting for Brock Lesnar and you don't even know how many fights the guy has? 3-4? Let me guess, you're going to vote for Sarah Palin because she's hot, right? Brock Lesnar has had 3 Fights, and he hasn't beaten any Heavyweight contenders. His win over Heath Herring was lack luster, being 260lbs and "Beast of pure strength, ability, and size" to quote you. Lesnar Sat on top of Herring for 3 entire rounds and couldn't finish him. Sounds like a ***** to me. The only other win he has is against a 3 Wins 6 Losses chubby Korean. Lesnar looked like a fat little kid trying to fight on the playground against Frank Mir, and he will look exactly the same against Couture. Only Couture will knock him out.

Sorry, you lose this one.

Kakutogi-Gumi
10-09-2008, 03:19 PM
Lesnar's got a chance. Slim one, but it's a chance.

He's getting the tools, the question is can he use them?

GreatestIam
10-09-2008, 04:01 PM
Yo **** bricks.. this motha****a is a former HW Ncaa champ so all that seating on *****es is logical, he's a former wrestler (not WWE) and with training he can be sculpted into the Biggest and best thing the MMA has seen on pure skill and marketablity, if your a true MMA fan you can see thins.. Otherwise like i said you ****ing cunt breed *****, go eat a ****ing goldfish and choke!

GreatestIam
10-09-2008, 04:03 PM
I got 50 k ON bROCK TO BEAT cOUTURE!

TheGreatA
10-09-2008, 05:19 PM
Lesnar's got a chance. Slim one, but it's a chance.

He's getting the tools, the question is can he use them?

I think he has a chance since Couture is a 45 year old man who has been inactive for more than a year. It wouldn't be the first time Couture has lost to a wrestler bigger than him (Rodriguez, Barnett).

But does Lesnar deserve that chance? In my opinion he does not.

Wasn't Nogueira supposed to be the interim champion... Hopefully he will get a shot at the winner.

I still favour Couture because he has all the experience. Maybe I would be more confident in Brock's chances if he had a few more fights under his belt, a lot of fighters have been rushed that way and ended up losing badly when they could've won with more experience.

Virgil Caine
10-09-2008, 05:31 PM
he can be sculpted into the Biggest and best thing the MMA has seen on pure skill and marketablity

Riiiiiiiiiight.

MetalVomit
10-09-2008, 05:31 PM
I got 50 k ON bROCK TO BEAT cOUTURE!

I'll take that bet, pm me if you're serious and i'll put it in my sig.

Alexis Vastine
10-10-2008, 02:22 AM
David Haye will kill em both never mind Vitali.

Virgil Caine
10-11-2008, 07:26 AM
David Haye will kill em both never mind Vitali.

Congrats, you are the biggest troll on this edge of the website.

RisAri0
10-12-2008, 10:41 PM
Lesnar is a special beast though I think. I mean he literally broke his neck and what could've killed him at a Wrestlemania match doing a shooting star press and finishes the show with an F-5. I give him props for that.

Harms
10-13-2008, 11:20 AM
I think he has a chance since Couture is a 45 year old man who has been inactive for more than a year. It wouldn't be the first time Couture has lost to a wrestler bigger than him (Rodriguez, Barnett).

But does Lesnar deserve that chance? In my opinion he does not.

Wasn't Nogueira supposed to be the interim champion... Hopefully he will get a shot at the winner.

I still favour Couture because he has all the experience. Maybe I would be more confident in Brock's chances if he had a few more fights under his belt, a lot of fighters have been rushed that way and ended up losing badly when they could've won with more experience.

I think comparing Lesnar to Rodriguez and Barnett is a diservice to Rodriguez and Barnett. Both had better all around MMA skill than Lesnar currently has. The only thing that they all three have in common is they are bigger wrestlers than Randy.

TheGreatA
10-13-2008, 07:34 PM
I think comparing Lesnar to Rodriguez and Barnett is a diservice to Rodriguez and Barnett. Both had better all around MMA skill than Lesnar currently has. The only thing that they all three have in common is they are bigger wrestlers than Randy.

That's what I said.

In no way am I comparing Lesnar to Barnett or a prime Rodriquez (he isn't worth anything now) skill or experience-wise, I'm certainly no Lesnar supporter.

But I could see Lesnar causing problems to Randy Couture if Brock can take Couture down and stay on top of him.

Kakutogi-Gumi
10-13-2008, 08:06 PM
Barnett is helping Lesnar.