View Full Version : Political Commonailty


vB Martin
11-04-2004, 08:33 PM
I have been labelled by more than a few here as a "liberal", and I have called a few people "right wingnuts", but rarely have a I seen anyone post their political views on important issues.

I will post a few issues, and my views on them. I would like others to post their views on the same issues. I think we already know where people stand on the President and the War in Iraq, so those will not be issues here.


Abortion:
My personal belief is that while I find abortion wrong, it's an issue that the government has no say in, except where they are funding the actual abortions.
While I belive that it is definitely the choice of the couple involved, with the woman having the greater say, I think that abortion as a means of birth control is repugnant and would support legislation to outlaw this if there was any conceivable way to enforce it.
I think that the anti-aborionists are pig headed, and the pro-abortionists sometimes too extreme. I know one woman in the feminist movement who feels that doctors and hospitals shoud not have the choice to deny a woman an abortion, regardless of their religious beliefs or personal feelings. This is as wrong as murdering doctors and blowing up clinics where abortions are performed.
Gay Marriage:
This is something that I don't even understand why it's an issue. If a couple decides that they want to commit themselves to each other, let them.
I've heard the argument that it's to protect the "sanctity" of marriage. If they mean the religious sanctity, then the government is expressly forbidden to interfere by the Constitution.
If they are talking about the sanctity in general, that was lost a long time ago when the divorce rate became so high. It's topping 60% in some places now. If this is their reasoning, I think they need to protect the sanctity of marriage from heterosexuals, as well.
No one has ever come up with an argument that compells me to believe that a gay couple, male or female, who decides to commit themselves to each other doesn't deserve the same benefits and protection under the law as a straight couple. If you have an argument other than "God hates ****" or any derivative thereof, I would like to hear it. If your only argument is "God Hates ****", I will refer you again to the Constitution of the United States of America.
I have some gay friends who will not settle for the term "Civil Union" because they feel it sets them apart from "real" married couples. I tell them they are idiots because they need to take what they can get for now, and press the issue further at a time when gay couples wed are more common and accepted. It's just like mixed race couples. In my childhood they were the subjects of open derision, now it's become common enough to not even raise an eyebrow in most places. It's amazing how adaptable people are.
Foreign Policy:
Whether we like it or not, the world is truly becoming one place. The internet is at least partly, if not majorly, responsible for this. People can now, at will, buy goods and services from shops around the world and have the products shipped to their doors.
We need to have a Foreign Policy that makes us part of that world, not that alienates us from it. While we should never cede our security to comittee, we definitely need the good will of the world to survive in the coming economic times.
The EEU is finally coming together. As what amounts to The United States of Europe, they will be more than competitive in the world marketplaces, have a larger GDP than the US with a larger combined Army. we cannot afford to totally alienate ourselves from this. Economic prosperity is ahead for Europeans. We want them to not only buy things from us, but we want them to continually buy things from us. Without that, we will be the largest Third World nuclear power.
Welfare:
I have preached this for years, and I will continue to preach this. It's shameful that the richest nation in the world also has the largest percentage of people living under the poverty line.
I'm a strong believer that we should help those less fortunate than ourselves, but I'm also a strong believer that the current system only keeps people where they are at. My idea for Welfare Reform is not to just take money away from people. That's the formula for higher crime rates, higher dropout rates, larger slums.
I think that Welfare should be tied to education, that way it becomes an investment rather than just money thrown down a hole. If a poor person makes an effort to improve their lot, we should be there to help them every step of the way. Pay for college, or a trade school, to help make that person employable. This will also help us compete in the world markets. Once a person completes their schooling, give them a few extra months benefit to find a job. They then become a tax-paying citizen and help get the next generation off Welfare.
If a person refuses to help themselves, we should offer them no more than a subsistence living. We should limit the Food Stamp program to only allow for the purchase of certain types of foods and never anything like potato chips and sodas, and especially not, as it is now, prepared food items from grocery store delis that aren't eaten on premises.
By allowing the purchase of non-staple foods, snacks, cakes, sodas, etc, we are not teaching the children that you have to earn the better things in life, we are teaching that you can get them without effort.
I could go on with this list, and may at some other point, but I have to pick up my girlfriend from work soon. If there is another hot button issue that you would add to the conversation, feel free to add it and give your viewpoints.

I'm betting that the more we add, the more common ground we will find and the less we will see each other as labels rather than fellow Americans who want what's best for the country and for each other.

abdiel2k3
11-04-2004, 08:51 PM
I have been labelled by more than a few here as a "liberal", and I have called a few people "right wingnuts", but rarely have a I seen anyone post their political views on important issues.

I will post a few issues, and my views on them. I would like others to post their views on the same issues. I think we already know where people stand on the President and the War in Iraq, so those will not be issues here.


Abortion:
My personal belief is that while I find abortion wrong, it's an issue that the government has no say in, except where they are funding the actual abortions.
While I belive that it is definitely the choice of the couple involved, with the woman having the greater say, I think that abortion as a means of birth control is repugnant and would support legislation to outlaw this if there was any conceivable way to enforce it.
I think that the anti-aborionists are pig headed, and the pro-abortionists sometimes too extreme. I know one woman in the feminist movement who feels that doctors and hospitals shoud not have the choice to deny a woman an abortion, regardless of their religious beliefs or personal feelings. This is as wrong as murdering doctors and blowing up clinics where abortions are performed.
Gay Marriage:
This is something that I don't even understand why it's an issue. If a couple decides that they want to commit themselves to each other, let them.
I've heard the argument that it's to protect the "sanctity" of marriage. If they mean the religious sanctity, then the government is expressly forbidden to interfere by the Constitution.
If they are talking about the sanctity in general, that was lost a long time ago when the divorce rate became so high. It's topping 60% in some places now. If this is their reasoning, I think they need to protect the sanctity of marriage from heterosexuals, as well.
No one has ever come up with an argument that compells me to believe that a gay couple, male or female, who decides to commit themselves to each other doesn't deserve the same benefits and protection under the law as a straight couple. If you have an argument other than "God hates ****" or any derivative thereof, I would like to hear it. If your only argument is "God Hates ****", I will refer you again to the Constitution of the United States of America.
I have some gay friends who will not settle for the term "Civil Union" because they feel it sets them apart from "real" married couples. I tell them they are idiots because they need to take what they can get for now, and press the issue further at a time when gay couples wed are more common and accepted. It's just like mixed race couples. In my childhood they were the subjects of open derision, now it's become common enough to not even raise an eyebrow in most places. It's amazing how adaptable people are.
Foreign Policy:
Whether we like it or not, the world is truly becoming one place. The internet is at least partly, if not majorly, responsible for this. People can now, at will, buy goods and services from shops around the world and have the products shipped to their doors.
We need to have a Foreign Policy that makes us part of that world, not that alienates us from it. While we should never cede our security to comittee, we definitely need the good will of the world to survive in the coming economic times.
The EEU is finally coming together. As what amounts to The United States of Europe, they will be more than competitive in the world marketplaces, have a larger GDP than the US with a larger combined Army. we cannot afford to totally alienate ourselves from this. Economic prosperity is ahead for Europeans. We want them to not only buy things from us, but we want them to continually buy things from us. Without that, we will be the largest Third World nuclear power.
Welfare:
I have preached this for years, and I will continue to preach this. It's shameful that the richest nation in the world also has the largest percentage of people living under the poverty line.
I'm a strong believer that we should help those less fortunate than ourselves, but I'm also a strong believer that the current system only keeps people where they are at. My idea for Welfare Reform is not to just take money away from people. That's the formula for higher crime rates, higher dropout rates, larger slums.
I think that Welfare should be tied to education, that way it becomes an investment rather than just money thrown down a hole. If a poor person makes an effort to improve their lot, we should be there to help them every step of the way. Pay for college, or a trade school, to help make that person employable. This will also help us compete in the world markets. Once a person completes their schooling, give them a few extra months benefit to find a job. They then become a tax-paying citizen and help get the next generation off Welfare.
If a person refuses to help themselves, we should offer them no more than a subsistence living. We should limit the Food Stamp program to only allow for the purchase of certain types of foods and never anything like potato chips and sodas, and especially not, as it is now, prepared food items from grocery store delis that aren't eaten on premises.
By allowing the purchase of non-staple foods, snacks, cakes, sodas, etc, we are not teaching the children that you have to earn the better things in life, we are teaching that you can get them without effort.
I could go on with this list, and may at some other point, but I have to pick up my girlfriend from work soon. If there is another hot button issue that you would add to the conversation, feel free to add it and give your viewpoints.

I'm betting that the more we add, the more common ground we will find and the less we will see each other as labels rather than fellow Americans who want what's best for the country and for each other.

dude can u serioulsy stop this
please man
this is a boxing forum
go to a politcal one for this stuff
or of ya like discussin this with the people here so much
private messege them
or message whatevr it takes
just please enough is enough
i cant stands no more

tino
11-04-2004, 08:58 PM
dude can u serioulsy stop this
please man
this is a boxing forum
go to a politcal one for this stuff
or of ya like discussin this with the people here so much
private messege them
or message whatevr it takes
just please enough is enough
i cant stands no more

yeah , please stop it . abdiel is damn right. lounge is made to discover words like "douchebag" and talk about first sexual experiences .

techn9ne
11-04-2004, 09:36 PM
i agree the election is over

we should wait until 2 years for the next elections

this is just beating the dead horse now

and making everyone mad at each other

vb i extend an olive branch of peace to you

techn9ne
11-04-2004, 09:38 PM
vb you are a reasonable guy whos beliefs are obviously a product of your environment

you just need to stay away from the left wing extremist websites:)

cheers mate!

Neuraxis
11-04-2004, 09:43 PM
The fact that you think that the EU's military power is anywhere close to the United States's reveals a lot about your knowledge of foreign policy.

techn9ne
11-04-2004, 09:47 PM
The fact that you think that the EU's military power is anywhere close to the United States's reveals a lot about your knowledge of foreign policy.

uhh were trying to stop this nonsense

PBDS
11-04-2004, 10:09 PM
The fact that you think that the EU's military power is anywhere close to the United States's reveals a lot about your knowledge of foreign policy.


...Yeah that kind of jumped out at me too. Like if we don't play nice with them they may some day kick our ass. That's pretty funny. Our key is to strengthen our relationships and trade with like or similar thinking nations and let the ones who oppose us because of jealousy see how well they do without our military protecting them.

PBDS
11-04-2004, 10:10 PM
uhh were trying to stop this nonsense


...sorry, I had to comment on that.

techn9ne
11-04-2004, 11:40 PM
and to think vb blocked me so he cant see i apologized

i guess you have to take the good with the bad in life

but seriously the ignore button should have a warning on it that is is for cowards :)

abdiel2k3
11-05-2004, 12:36 AM
and to think vb blocked me so he cant see i apologized

i guess you have to take the good with the bad in life

but seriously the ignore button should have a warning on it that is is for cowards :)

well if he blocked ya
maybe he can still see ya when i quote ya

GxBrak
11-05-2004, 02:46 AM
douchebag...that's a funny word huh?

Soundtraveler
11-05-2004, 04:58 AM
VB, I think your post was well thought out, good reading, and full of sensible commentary although it is total garbage - just kidding! :D I loved it, you make great points, and I agree with much of what you are saying, (in THIS post) and sorry Abdiel, & Tech9, but this is the "lounge" and it is exactly where such topics should be posted.

VB, although I may not always agree with your views, I do admire your steadfast stance. Good job, give em' hell if you want to, it's as close to a free country as there is on this planet....