Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids

Steve Bradshaw
Thursday October 9, 2003
The Guardian

The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV virus.

A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms, despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue.

The church's claims are revealed in a BBC1 Panorama programme, Sex and the Holy City, to be broadcast on Sunday. The president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom.

"These margins of uncertainty... should represent an obligation on the part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a danger."

The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."

The organisation says "consistent and correct" condom use reduces the risk of HIV infection by 90%. There may be breakage or slippage of condoms - but not, the WHO says, holes through which the virus can pass .

Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of Health and the WHO found "intact condoms... are essentially impermeable to particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually transmitted virus... condoms provide a highly effective barrier to transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD viruses".

The Vatican's Cardinal Trujillo said: "They are wrong about that... this is an easily recognisable fact."

The church opposes any kind of contraception because it claims it breaks the link between sex and procreation - a position Pope John Paul II has fought to defend.

In Kenya - where an estimated 20% of people have the HIV virus - the church condemns condoms for promoting promiscuity and repeats the claim about permeability. The archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki, said: "Aids... has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms."

Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through".

In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids."

Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics as far apart as Asia and Latin America.

· Steve Bradshaw is a correspondent with Panorama. Sex and the Holy City will be broadcast on BBC1 at 10.15pm on Sunday.

Special reports
Aids
Medicine and health

Special investigation
February 2003: Saving Grace - why 30m people with Aids can't get the drugs they need

Full text
UN Aids report, November 2002
UN report into Aids, July 2002

Useful links
NHS Direct: HIV/Aids
British HIV Association
Eldis HIV/Aids guide
National Aids Trust
Terrence Higgins Trust
Elton John Aids Foundation
Children with Aids






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The Vatican Press Release:

Bzob is big Boned

Very irresponsible. It doesn't surprise me.

Isn't this insane?...what are they thinking?This really strikes at the core of my own division between hating the dogmatic policies of the organized church, but still bearing an ember of faith in me sparked by this religion.

This is why I refuse to join a church

it just shouldnt be this hard... once again people are idiots

Originally posted by Creed
This is why I refuse to join a church

And have sex, right?

he is saving himself

Originally posted by Kato
he is saving himself

Yeah, me too.

i may be alone on this but religion is starting to turn into a joke now days it's sad

I do not believe that anything created by humankind can be perfect...there for religion, IMHO, can never be perfect. But this is just ignorant

Originally posted by Kato
I do not believe that anything created by humankind can be perfect...there for religion, IMHO, can never be perfect. But this is just ignorant

This is pretty damn close to perfect....
http://www.abescelebrityanimations.com/abeanimations/celebrity%20smootch/Britneynak01.jpg

i agree kato that's why i don't go to church i mean i believe in god and all that but i just don't like going to church too many hipocrits there

Originally posted by Tanner Rhoden
This is pretty damn close to perfect....
http://www.abescelebrityanimations.com/abeanimations/celebrity%20smootch/Britneynak01.jpg





yes yes it is :lovers:

Catholics don’t believe in birth control, thus are against condoms. They always have been against birth control. This is just another scare tactic aimed at Catholic youth who are bending the rules set forth by the Vatican. And, for a small percentage of the youth they were targeting, it worked.

Originally posted by Tanner Rhoden
This is pretty damn close to perfect....
http://www.abescelebrityanimations.com/abeanimations/celebrity%20smootch/Britneynak01.jpg
:?!: :eek: :?:

Yeah, this is close to perfect too....
http://www.crissydee.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1065577336.jpg

The Vatican has always been Pro sex prevention talks and education, however they are and have always been Anti birth control. This is infact a topic that has been under scrutiny for many years.

One of many debates:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/382616.stm

The Vatican sponsors Vampire hunters.

the vatican is a joke imo

Vampire hunters, yes. Along with exorcists and secret groups who battle specific evil threats in the world.

kinda like the ghost busters huh?

Yes, they are also keeping it a secret that Conan the Barbarian being elected as governor is a sure sign of the apocolypse.

hey the running man is going to do a good job

Vampirism is a form of demonic possession created by Lovecraftian or Supernatural Demons as a means of gaining and then controlling subjects. The first such beings created directly infected or possessed by the Demons were imprinted with a portion of the demon's consciousness, becoming in effect distant extensions of the demon's personality. These beings were Master Vampires or the First Born. When a Master Vampire creates a slave, companion or protege, this secondary vampire is imprinted with a portion of the demon's consciousness and also with a portion of the Master's personality.--Possibly when a Master Vampire is "killed" or seriously injured it can move its full consciousness into the closest of its subjects, extinguishing the subject's personality and reconfiguring the body into an exact genetic duplicate of its own.

Isn't it weird that I know this? lol.

lol yah....i think vampires are bull**** though pure fantasy

Perfection

http://www.bomboncitomagazine.com/images/mes/bom_04_03.jpg

oh my god .....dkjhbvk bvks hkdnfdskngdskgnsdkgnvldf god does love me

Originally posted by Mr. Beelzebub
Perfection

http://www.bomboncitomagazine.com/images/mes/bom_04_03.jpg




please post more of her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The "De Exorcismis et Supplicationibus Quibusdam", as it is called now, contains 84pages but is classified secret and not for public use. According to this, Exorcisms may only be performed with permission or by order of a bishop. Nonetheless it is a written factual work that the Vatican follows concerning demonic possession and it’s existence within the world of the living.

I would lick that ass for an hour after a 20 mile bike ride in 90 degree weather. Damn it's shapely!

Exorcism (from Greek exorkizein): "an adjuration addressed to evil spirits to force them to abandon an object, place, or person; technically, a ceremony used in both Jewish and Christian traditions to expel demons from persons who have come under their power". (Encyclopeadia Britannica)

i have a real urge to thrash it right now where's my lotion

For the serious researcher. (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20001123_istruzione_en.html) ...Note Article 8.

I think I may be possesed by demons.

i'm possesed by masturbation demons

religious organizations may change their stance on issues from time to time. they gain and lose public support throughout time as well. it's all ups & downs.

God, however, has stayed the same. the Bible has never changed beliefs. remember that just because man tries it's best to represent God, man is still imperfect. if you want God's take on everything then just go to Him directly.

ok what room is he in at the holiday in?

I love god and religion but I hate church it has been corrupt for centuries

yah really i didn't know god needed a new cadillac every 3 years

Originally posted by DragonZero
yah really i didn't know god needed a new cadillac every 3 years



ahahahahaahahahahhaha:lol1:

it's true to you ever notice priests and all them always have a new cadillac how is this possible if they don't get paid?

A new catholic church just got built here in downtown LA. You should see it, it’s huge. They spent a few million just building it, then to this day they are using all of their charitable money in the business aspect of the church. Catholics. Man, if any of you ever come down to LA anytime soon, stop by this place. For the past 2 weeks, every day, there are protestors out there with signs trying to let the public know how corrupt this church is. Oh, did I mention that the protestors are Priests and Nuns from other churches? Yea, full uniform, out there protesting against this individual church. Very powerful message going on down here.

wow that's crazy haven't heard about that

Most people haven't it's pretty new. I'm suprised the media hasn't grabbed onto it yet. This is going on right in the heart of Downtown LA.

yah really sounds like something they'd eat up quick

Where's Kato? I gave her some good information a few pages back, and now she's not here to debate with me... thank God for coffee.

yah she disappeared come back kato and where's bobert?

Originally posted by Mouse
Catholics don’t believe in birth control,

Tell me about it, when I worked with the nuns at Sister of Mercy, they were aware of how many kids me and bob had between us... they asked if I was planning on having any more, I told them that their question was out of line and would not answer since it was in the hands of God and whatever he had planned for me to be...(we had medical insurance, vision and dental, they covered all of our prescriptions but not birthcontrol pill...and here is Ana)

Originally posted by Mr. Beelzebub
Perfection



her face is....o..k, but she does have the best derriere I have ever since out in ****o land. Wasn't she in Maxim?

Originally posted by Mouse
The Vatican has always been Pro sex prevention talks and education, however they are and have always been Anti birth control. This is infact a topic that has been under scrutiny for many years.

One of many debates:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/382616.stm

Because they believe that sex should only be had to procreate, if you are not doing it for the sake of having babies then dont it...

Originally posted by Mouse
The "De Exorcismis et Supplicationibus Quibusdam", as it is called now, contains 84pages but is classified secret and not for public use. According to this, Exorcisms may only be performed with permission or by order of a bishop. Nonetheless it is a written factual work that the Vatican follows concerning demonic possession and it’s existence within the world of the living.


When I was 4 years old the elders in my family used to speak of moments where my great grandma would leave the house to be part of an exorcism...my grandma once followed her to a house where she was at and claims to have see the women in mid air while her mom and other women prayed around her... It was also told in hush hush that the day her father died (a man with the need to stick his pee pee where ever it could fit) everyone was in the house, he had been ill and his bed was lifted about 2 fit and dropped 4 times before he passed away... I dont know of course if any of this is true

I'm not too big on history but weren't the Vatican against the idea that the world was round at one point?

- J.

Originally posted by Purity
religious organizations may change their stance on issues from time to time. they gain and lose public support throughout time as well. it's all ups & downs.

God, however, has stayed the same. the Bible has never changed beliefs. remember that just because man tries it's best to represent God, man is still imperfect. if you want God's take on everything then just go to Him directly.


My relationship with God has always been on a one to one basis... **** since the first day I have knowledge of self really. I have my own beliefs of what God may want from me but its easier for me to make my own decision because I was given that opportunity to know this religion and then ask questions about that, this is not happening in our home because I am not a practicing catholic...the only one baptized is Andrez and that is because my mom made all the arrangements when he was 2 weeks old. I would like to give my children the same opportunity to understand that bases of a religion...any religion, I chose Catholic because it was the one that was drilled to my psyche.

Originally posted by Mouse
Where's Kato? I gave her some good information a few pages back, and now she's not here to debate with me... thank God for coffee.


Damn Matt I could almost say you missed me...haha

Originally posted by The Jake
I'm not too big on history but weren't the Vatican against the idea that the world was round at one point?

- J.

you are correct...

Originally posted by Kato
you are correct...

Sure I'm going to take anything they say as gospel (no pun intended)..... :-/

- J.

and they say all this bull**** after all the messes that has come afloat with their priest molestations...how is abstenence a good thing?

i keep it simple and adhere to the Bible. that's where i get the basis for the life that i do my best to live. if there's issues that i'm confused about then i pray.

we talk regularly and at time do the loving kindness meditation...we have not done it in a while...but I am not sure if this is enough...


Send loving-kindness to yourself
Really love yourself.
Want yourself to be happy.

Think:
I love myself.
May I be free from anger.
May I be free from sadness.
May I be free from pain.
May I be free from difficulties.
May I be free from all suffering.
May I be healthy.
May my body be healthy and strong.
May I be filled with loving-kindness.
May I be happy.
May I be really happy.
May I be at peace.

I spread this loving-kindness out.
I send love to Dad and Mom.
May Dad and Mom be free from difficulties.
May they be free from pain and sadness.
May they be free from attachment,
Free from anger and ill-will.
May they be free from all suffering.
May Mom and Dad be healthy and happy.
Completely healthy and happy.
May they be at peace.

I send loving-kindness to both my brothers.
May they be free from sadness and anger.
May they be free from sickness.
May they be free from all suffering.
May they be happy and free.
Free from suffering, free from difficulties.
May they be well and happy.
May they be at peace.

I send loving-kindness to my teachers
and the kids at school.
May they be free from sorrow and suffering.
May they be free from anger and difficulties.
May they be happy.
Free from all difficulties and sadness.
May they be well and happy.
May they be at peace.

I send love now to all the people
I don't know – everywhere on this earth.
May all beings on the planet be free from suffering.
May they be free from pain, grief, and despair.
May they be happy, truly happy.
May they be at peace.

May all beings in the universe be free from suffering.
May all beings in all universes, everwhere, be free from suffering.
May they be well and happy.
May they be at peace.

May all beings of all kinds, in all directions be happy and at peace.
Above and below, near and far, high and low.
All types of beings. Human and non-humans.
Seen and unseen.
All the animals and birds, and fishes.
All beings and creatures, with no exceptions.
May they all be happy.
May they be free.

I open my heart and accept loving-kindness
of every being and creature in return.
I let that love into my heart.
And I share the benefits of this meditation with every one.

May all beings be well and happy.
May all beings be well and happy.
May all beings be well and happy.
May there be peace.
May there be peace.
May there be peace.

http://www.neitherday.com/movies/fight_club_1.jpg
"YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE AND BEAUTIFUL SNOWFLAKE

YOU ARE THE SAME DECAYING MATTER AS EVERYONE ELSE

WE ARE ALL PART OF THE SAME COMPOST HEAP

WE ARE THE ALL SINGING, ALL DANCING CRAP OF THE WORLD!"

- J.

No comment. :devil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3170908.stm

I just found this as well... hardly reassuring....

- J.

They had an HBO documentary about this, it was insane I could not stop crying... it showed how so many of the women had HIV because of thei cheating husbands and vice versa... I think that people that spread diseases because of their sexual misbehaviour should be put in jail, they should be locked away and do time, depending on the severity of the disease the longer you stay or do just probation.

I still think women who cheat should have their skin ripped off.

For once...I agree with you Matt ;)

Man. Reading that report makes me want to get tested even though Im running a dry streak!

You have to be in a wet streak first to get in a dry streak. There is only one cure for HIV. Test everyone. You fail, you die.....

Yea... I remember about 4 years ago I was all paranoid cuz I thought I might have HIV due to the fact I slept with some dirty ass hoes with no condom. Thought for sure I had it.. then I got tested, felt like my world was over, then the results came out negative. Think I lost about 200lbs in sweat throughout that whole process. Then I got tested again about a year ago for everything cuz the ***** I was with cheated on me with a dirty ass ****** and got chlamidea, (however the **** u spell that). Can't believe I didn't get it. I got the ****'n immune system of superman.

that is what I ****ing mean...ugghhh that is not only a break of trust (which should be taken as a broken agreement) but putting someone's life in danger... she should've gone to jail

**** jail, she'd get raped and would have enjoyed it. I'm sticking to my original statement.

If this wasn't America, and it was a 3rd World country, I would have my own Dungeon. And I would drag that ***** down to my dungeon and shackle her up, in which time I would rip her ****ing skin off!!!! Then watch as she bleeds and cries to death, all the while telling her how she ****ed up and broke something as sacred as a trust... a bond of two souls... I could tell her before she dies how she didn't appreciate something as sacred as my heart that I gave to her, and would have given her forever.

The Catholic church is insane for saying that. They're killing people in effect.