Ali and Joe Louis are interchangable at the 1 and 2 spots in heavyweight history. More times than not, when you see one of them listed the other will be next. Thats just how it is, and probably will be for a long time. It is their link.

Unfortunatley they are both linked in a more dubious way too. They were both screwed over by their own goverment. Now Im an American. I believe in the American way. But lets face facts, its not perfect. And both these men were screwed by it. Who got screwed worse?

In 1967 Muhammed Ali refused induction into the armed services to go fight in Vietnam. He did so citing religious beliefs. The United State goverment subseqently banned him from fighting for more than 3 years until the Supreme court ruled that Ali had the right to refuse service based on his convictions. Still, in that time frame he unjustly lost part of his prime.

In 1942 Joe Louis, in his prime, decided to join the United States Army and its fight against Adolf Hitler in World War 2. His title was frozen and he proceded to make appearences to improve troop moral, and even fight exhibitions where he would donate his purse to the relief fund. This went on for four years, the whole time the goverment was taxing the purses that Louis was donating right back to the very same goverment, and expecting payment on that once Louis was released from active duty. The US dug its claws in and wasn't going to let Louis off the hook. Financially, and mentally, this broke him.

Both these men were just trying to do right. One, by his beliefs, which were and are protected by the United States constitution. The other, by his country, for which he only wanted to help. Both got **** on and paid a heavy price. In your opinion which of the great men got screwed worse, and why?

I think Louis was screwed worse. Because he was helping the country, and got screwed for it. Where Ali was going against the country (Although he has my upmost respect for holding to his beliefs).

Louis was screwed worse, but Ali lost more of his boxing career because of the Vietnam War. Louis lost some of his prime years, but there was no competition for him to beat really.

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Jack Johnson didn't have it easy either.

Louis. The Feds dogged Ali's ass for three years while they dogged Louis for the rest of his life and drove him to an early grave. Ali is able to live out his days with financial security and adulation from boxing fans worldwide. Louis lived out HIS life impoverished with every dime he earned confiscated by a rapacious federal government. He died in obscurity after living off the charity of the few fans who remembered him. He deserved better than that.

Poet

[COLOR="Navy"]
In 1967 Muhammed Ali refused induction into the armed services to go fight in Vietnam. He did so citing religious beliefs. The United State goverment subseqently banned him from fighting for more than 3 years until the Supreme court ruled that Ali had the right to refuse service based on his convictions. Still, in that time frame he unjustly lost part of his prime.


** NOT!!!!

Boxing powers moved to strip Ali. It was the same powers that also lifted his boxing license. US govt has zip to do with boxing. Ali ended any claim in advance of the tourney which crowned Frazier as champ by voluntarily relinquishing any claim.

Mike Tyson was banned across the larger US for his actions in and out of the ring, so it ain't like Ali was a special case in boxing. Many others as well.

Louis was a special case. He donated a couple of purses to the war effort, served his country by flying around the world under deadly war conditions to put on exhibitions for the servicemen for 3 yrs, and then was fined by the IRS for not paying taxes on his earnings he donoted.

A complete travesty, and if not for that we would have been spared the Rocky KO, although in my estimation Louis proved his worth in his comeback as a top ranked fighter and force to be reckoned with.

Another myth passed around is that Ali served time in jail for his selective service felony conviction.....NOT!!!!

[QUOTE=LondonRingRules;4036812]** NOT!!!!

Boxing powers moved to strip Ali

Because of the US Gov. What other reason would they have banned Ali? That wasn't boxing related.

Mike Tyson was banned across the larger US for his actions in and out of the ring


For totally different reasons that you can't compare to Ali's situation.

Louis. The Feds dogged Ali's ass for three years while they dogged Louis for the rest of his life and drove him to an early grave. Ali is able to live out his days with financial security and adulation from boxing fans worldwide. Louis lived out HIS life impoverished with every dime he earned confiscated by a rapacious federal government. He died in obscurity after living off the charity of the few fans who remembered him. He deserved better than that.

Poet

I agree with everything you said here. I don't see another way to look at it.

I agree with poet, I think it's Louis.

[QUOTE=joseph5620;4038553]

Because of the US Gov. What other reason would they have banned Ali? That wasn't boxing related.


Agreed. He was wrongly punished for not conforming. If it was the boxing commisions doing this he just would have been stripped and banned. I may be wrong here, but I don't think Ali was stripped, but rather gave up his title. Can I get a little help on this, anyone?

Ali and Joe Louis are interchangable at the 1 and 2 spots in heavyweight history. More times than not, when you see one of them listed the other will be next. Thats just how it is, and probably will be for a long time. It is their link.

Unfortunatley they are both linked in a more dubious way too. They were both screwed over by their own goverment. Now Im an American. I believe in the American way. But lets face facts, its not perfect. And both these men were screwed by it. Who got screwed worse?

In 1967 Muhammed Ali refused induction into the armed services to go fight in Vietnam. He did so citing religious beliefs. The United State goverment subseqently banned him from fighting for more than 3 years until the Supreme court ruled that Ali had the right to refuse service based on his convictions. Still, in that time frame he unjustly lost part of his prime.

In 1942 Joe Louis, in his prime, decided to join the United States Army and its fight against Adolf Hitler in World War 2. His title was frozen and he proceded to make appearences to improve troop moral, and even fight exhibitions where he would donate his purse to the relief fund. This went on for four years, the whole time the goverment was taxing the purses that Louis was donating right back to the very same goverment, and expecting payment on that once Louis was released from active duty. The US dug its claws in and wasn't going to let Louis off the hook. Financially, and mentally, this broke him.

Both these men were just trying to do right. One, by his beliefs, which were and are protected by the United States constitution. The other, by his country, for which he only wanted to help. Both got **** on and paid a heavy price. In your opinion which of the great men got screwed worse, and why?

fuk da government! they are not here 2 help but 2 try 2 rule da world...matter of fact government was created from da people & should be run by the people...!

[QUOTE=joseph5620;4038553]

Because of the US Gov. What other reason would they have banned Ali? That wasn't boxing related.


Agreed. He was wrongly punished for not conforming. If it was the boxing commisions doing this he just would have been stripped and banned. I may be wrong here, but I don't think Ali was stripped, but rather gave up his title. Can I get a little help on this, anyone?

Ali was not only stripped, but had his boxing licence taken away. He also had his passport revoked so he couldn't fight overseas.That was by the US Government too so I don't see how anybody can say the Gov had nothing to do with this. Ali was completely banned from boxing. He was not even allowed in gyms although his trainer and good friend Angelo Dundee and his brother Chris allowed Ali to work out in their Miami gym when he wanted to.

Ali and Joe Louis are interchangable at the 1 and 2 spots in heavyweight history. More times than not, when you see one of them listed the other will be next. Thats just how it is, and probably will be for a long time. It is their link.

Unfortunatley they are both linked in a more dubious way too. They were both screwed over by their own goverment. Now Im an American. I believe in the American way. But lets face facts, its not perfect. And both these men were screwed by it. Who got screwed worse?

In 1967 Muhammed Ali refused induction into the armed services to go fight in Vietnam. He did so citing religious beliefs. The United State goverment subseqently banned him from fighting for more than 3 years until the Supreme court ruled that Ali had the right to refuse service based on his convictions. Still, in that time frame he unjustly lost part of his prime.

In 1942 Joe Louis, in his prime, decided to join the United States Army and its fight against Adolf Hitler in World War 2. His title was frozen and he proceded to make appearences to improve troop moral, and even fight exhibitions where he would donate his purse to the relief fund. This went on for four years, the whole time the goverment was taxing the purses that Louis was donating right back to the very same goverment, and expecting payment on that once Louis was released from active duty. The US dug its claws in and wasn't going to let Louis off the hook. Financially, and mentally, this broke him.

Both these men were just trying to do right. One, by his beliefs, which were and are protected by the United States constitution. The other, by his country, for which he only wanted to help. Both got **** on and paid a heavy price. In your opinion which of the great men got screwed worse, and why?

On having to do with these two injustices.......would any of you agree that in the case of Joe Louis that the goverment broke an already great man, yet in Ali's case made a great man greater? What I mean is, Ali's popularity and fame skyrocketed for standing his ground and not giving into the goverment. Before his ban he was not looked at as everyones champion. After it he was was beloved by nearly everbody.

On having to do with these two injustices.......would any of you agree that in the case of Joe Louis that the goverment broke an already great man, yet in Ali's case made a great man greater? What I mean is, Ali's popularity and fame skyrocketed for standing his ground and not giving into the goverment. Before his ban he was not looked at as everyones champion. After it he was was beloved by nearly everbody.

You make a good point Jab and I can definitely see it that way