Do you think Foreman would have won? A few adjustments and Foreman could have beat Ali I think. Also, I don't know much on the history of the two men but why did a rematch never happen?

I also don't remember what the score cards were like going into the 8th round. Box Rec says that Ali was ahead on all cards, is this right? It's been a while since I've seen this fight but I seem to remember thinking Fomeman was just pounding away on him and was winning in my eyes.. I'll have to watch it again.

Anyway, please give me your thoughts on how Foreman would have done in a rematch..

Same result. Foreman would throw all his energy away loadin up big shots lookin for the KO. Ali would conserve his energy and potshot him to death for anotha late rd KO. Foreman woulda fought wit even more fury after losin the first time and might be done in earlier.

Same result. Foreman would throw all his energy away loadin up big shots lookin for the KO. Ali would conserve his energy and potshot him to death for anotha late rd KO. Foreman woulda fought wit even more fury after losin the first time and might be done in earlier.

You don't think Foreman would have realized that, that was his biggest mistake and adjust for it? I think Foreman was smart enough to realize that..

You don't think Foreman would have realized that, that was his biggest mistake and adjust for it? I think Foreman was smart enough to realize that..

I don't. Foreman was who he was, He was a come forward slugger, I think Ali would have beat him,

As for the scorecards. A lot of people seem to remember it as Ali being dominated then KOing Foreman where Ali was fighting effectivly the whole fight, He was on the ropes a lot but landed good punches as well, a lot of right leads and combos. I can't remember my score card but I know it was close.

I loved that fight, I might rewatch it in a minute..

I don't. Foreman was who he was, He was a come forward slugger, I think Ali would have beat him,

As for the scorecards. A lot of people seem to remember it as Ali being dominated then KOing Foreman where Ali was fighting effectivly the whole fight, He was on the ropes a lot but landed good punches as well, a lot of right leads and combos. I can't remember my score card but I know it was close.

I loved that fight, I might rewatch it in a minute..

Ali was very effective in that fight but it also took a lot out of him! I don't know if he could have gone through that again and by the time they would have fought for a second time, Ali would have been even more past it and suffered even more damage.

You might be right. I've just always liked to believe that Foreman could have won the second fight but it is Muhammad Ali we're talking about here..

Ali was very effective in that fight but it also took a lot out of him! I don't know if he could have gone through that again and by the time they would have fought for a second time, Ali would have been even more past it and suffered even more damage.

You might be right. I've just always liked to believe that Foreman could have won the second fight but it is Muhammad Ali we're talking about here..

Foreman could have won the rematch, But Liston could have won his rematch with Ali as well. Ali someone always found a way to do it when his back was to the wall. It's what made him the fighter we know,

Although, I feel he should have retired straight after the win over Spinks and not fought Berbick and Holmes :boxing:

Foreman could have won the rematch, But Liston could have won his rematch with Ali as well. Ali someone always found a way to do it when his back was to the wall. It's what made him the fighter we know,

Although, I feel he should have retired straight after the win over Spinks and not fought Berbick and Holmes :boxing:

Yeah, I know but that was when Ali was still young and in his prime. I think he was slightly past it when he fought Foreman the first time and would have been even more so in a rematch.

I agree, he shouldn't have fought Berbick nor Holmes. I also agree that Ali always found a way to overcome obstacles in the ring. He won when everyone thought he would lose time and time again.

What an amazing fighter he was!!:boxing:

I don't remember the scorecards either, but as T said Ali was fighting effectively all night. The first round saw Ali dancing as expected landing some crisp right hands. Foreman was extremely effective in cutting off the ring so Ali changed his tactics accordingly and invented the rope-a-dope.

Ali was brilliant fighting off the ropes. If you watch the fight again notice those fantastic combos Ali throws to finish off the 3. and 5. rounds. Sheer artistry (spelling).

As for a second fight I pretty much agree with T. The pattern of the fight is set before the first bell. Ali would be on the ropes. Foreman would try to get the KO. Maybe Foreman would get it. At least he should be able to pace himself a little better so as he might last a few more rounds.

Thanks for your opinions Bat and T-97! It's just something we'll never know and can only speculate on.

now, Knep dig selv!!!!:lol1: :joke:

Yeah, I know but that was when Ali was still young and in his prime. I think he was slightly past it when he fought Foreman the first time and would have been even more so in a rematch.

I agree, he shouldn't have fought Berbick nor Holmes. I also agree that Ali always found a way to overcome obstacles in the ring. He won when everyone thought he would lose time and time again.

What an amazing fighter he was!!:boxing:

I made an Ali apreciation thread ages ago, I think in NSB though

I don't remember the scorecards either, but as T said Ali was fighting effectively all night. The first round saw Ali dancing as expected landing some crisp right hands. Foreman was extremely effective in cutting off the ring so Ali changed his tactics accordingly and invented the rope-a-dope.

Ali was brilliant fighting off the ropes. If you watch the fight again notice those fantastic combos Ali throws to finish off the 3. and 5. rounds. Sheer artistry (spelling).

As for a second fight I pretty much agree with T. The pattern of the fight is set before the first bell. Ali would be on the ropes. Foreman would try to get the KO. Maybe Foreman would get it. At least he should be able to pace himself a little better so as he might last a few more rounds.

Yea, Ali fought incredibly from the ropes, He used the right hand lead fantastically that night. He literally fought a perfect fight. I watched Foreman-Frazier 2 the other day, That just re enforced how great that win was for Ali to me.

Thanks for your opinions Bat and T-97! It's just something we'll never know and can only speculate on.

now, Knep dig selv!!!!:lol1: :joke:

You first :luvbed:

Go knep jer selv :rofl::rofl:

I just bumped my Ali appreciation thread :banana:

Go knep jer selv :rofl::rofl:

Got it! "jer" is plural and "dig" is singular... Is that right? If I'm telling multiple *****es to go **** themselves it's Knep jer selv but if I'm just telling one ***** to go **** himslef it's knep dig selv..

Foreman would finally get his credits after all his stolen bouts against ali.

I also don't remember what the score cards were like going into the 8th round. Box Rec says that Ali was ahead on all cards, is this right?

Yes, Ali was well ahead on the cards at the time the fight ended, as I've read from sources in the past that the scores were 69-66, 70-65, and 70-61 (no typo, if you can believe it) in his favour.

I've tried to find the source again on where I read that and can't, but this comment, which might back up those scores to an extent, was easy to find as I posted it before on a couple of sites;

"Most, including the two judges and the referee, gave Foreman no more than one round." - AP report dated Nov 5th, 1974

Foreman would finally get his credits after all his stolen bouts against ali.

Come again?

Or, what the **** are you talking about my man?

Yes, Ali was well ahead on the cards at the time the fight ended, as I've read from sources in the past that the scores were 69-66, 70-65, and 70-61 (no typo, if you can believe it) in his favour.

I've tried to find the source again on where I read that and can't, but this comment, which might back up those scores to an extent, was easy to find as I posted it before on a couple of sites;

"Most, including the two judges and the referee, gave Foreman no more than one round." - AP report dated Nov 5th, 1974

Wow! I think Ali was ahead, But that is mad!

Come again?

Or, what the **** are you talking about my man?

I was about to ask..

Yes, Ali was well ahead on the cards at the time the fight ended, as I've read from sources in the past that the scores were 69-66, 70-65, and 70-61 (no typo, if you can believe it) in his favour.

I've tried to find the source again on where I read that and can't, but this comment, which might back up those scores to an extent, was easy to find as I posted it before on a couple of sites;

"Most, including the two judges and the referee, gave Foreman no more than one round." - AP report dated Nov 5th, 1974
Whoa! Really? That seems a bit generous on Ali's behalf although I must admit I never actually scored the fight myself.

Wow! I think Ali was ahead, But that is mad!

BoxRec has some different scores listed under the fight, so maybe I was told wrong (*shrugs*). They have it listed 70-67, 69-66, and 68-66 all for Ali at the time of the stoppage.

Who the hell knows, but it really doesn't matter much, though, I would think.

BoxRec has some different scores listed under the fight, so maybe I was told wrong (*shrugs*). They have it listed 70-67, 69-66, and 68-66 all for Ali at the time of the stoppage.

Who the hell knows, but it really doesn't matter much, though, I would think.

Your right, It doesn't really matter,

Those scores seem more realistic to me though

Ali would most likely win again. If Foreman goes on an all out attack like he did in their 74' fight, he gets stopped again. If he paces himself and doesn't attack as much, Ali would outbox him.

Ali would most likely win again.

** Ali enters his absolute worst phase of his career after the Foreman fight.

Foreman, like any undefeated highly touted fighter including Ali, goes into a funk after being upset, but everyone knows about his championship heart, and the record shows he was completely obsessed with getting Ali back into the ring.

This starts with post fight taped interviews where a relaxed, philosophical Foreman wants a rematch, and a tense, defensive Ali puts off the question, claiming he might well retire. Ring ran a 30th anniversary piece which included interviews and relevant witness in the day, as well as a current interview with Foreman. Ali obviously was unavailable for an interview.

Ali mentions a 10 mil 50/50 split offer from a black Indonesian oilman in his November Playboy interview which had to have held up publication, so they could interview Ali days after his win. Ali is noncommittal in the interview, but a bit more expansive and positive.

Foreman in every interview, starting from his Canadian exhibition which Ali attends and taunts him at, makes the rematch front and center. Sports Illustrated features him on the front cover, calling out Ali, something never accorded a losing fighter that I can recall.

Ali fights Wepner, Lyle, Bugner, Frazier, Coopman, Young, Dunn, Norton in this time frame before Foreman retires and takes heavy punishment against all but Coopman, Young, Dunn. He was completely outworked and clowned by Young though, and Lyle and Norton were also controversial wins. Wepner, Coopman, and Dunn were not even fringe contenders.

He's not the same fighter anymore, and I recall an interview by Ferdie where he notices a distinct decline in Ali after Foreman and that the team was against the rematch.

Taking on 4 quality heavies in the 2.5 yrs after the Foreman fight somewhat absolves Ali of not making the match, but obviously Foreman is the big money fight and only Frazier and Norton could be said to have been near his class as a fighter in this time frame.

I've always favored Foreman in the rematch because of the fluke nature of the first fight who's conditions could never be reproduced. As far as the scoring of the fight goes, I recall an article many years ago from back in the day that showed Foreman ahead on 2 of 3 cards in close fight on the cards. Since then Boxrec has changed the scoring on the fight many times. Given this was King's first promotion held in a 3rd world backwater run by a genocidal strongman dictator under contrversial conditions, I wouldn't trust any scoring at this point even if the Pope certifies it.

Foreman, never a graceful fighter, looked incredibly clumsy for the fight even though Ali was dead square in front of him getting whacked from every point. Foreman couldn't spar for a month of the delay because of his cut and it showed.

I regard this as Ali's finest moment, and just look at the rankings. Ali vaults from outside all time top 10 rankings to the #1 slot after this fight, which should give everyone a clue about the fickle and inexplicable nature of boxing's wiseguys that decide this nonsense.

So, Ali owes Foreman a debt, and George admits that he owes Ali for sending him into this funk where he has to go into the wilderness and draw upon his faith to come out a stronger man and everyone's favorite icon today.

Damned shame about Jimmy Young though. His window of opportunity was narrow, but he really did a number on the two top fighters of the era who had completely disparate styles. He should've gotten another title shot before he self destructed. Norton also treated shabbily by boxing at his best. Myself and many thought he won all 3 against Ali, the first two fairly handily.

C'st la vie..........

Regarding the Ali-Lyle fight, was there any particular reason that Lyle was given the chance to fight for the title ahead of the other leading contenders?

He was coming off of a loss to Jimmy Young, which makes it a bit unusual that he was given a title shot.

Regarding the Ali-Lyle fight, was there any particular reason that Lyle was given the chance to fight for the title ahead of the other leading contenders?

He was coming off of a loss to Jimmy Young, which makes it a bit unusual that he was given a title shot.

Ali defended his title 3 times in a span of 3 months (almost unheard of today) against Wepner, Lyle and Bugner after defeating Foreman and before taking on Joe Frazier. It was supposed to be an easy fight but Lyle was better than they thought he was.

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I don't find the stoppage as controversial as others do, atleast on today's standards. Lyle should've punched back.

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Not long after this Foreman lost to Jimmy Young.

Thanks TheManchine.

I didn't know that Ali ever had such a hectic schedule, 41 rounds in 3 months!

I think that the stoppage was reasonable. I'm not sure how hurt he was, but he took a lot of punches without throwing anything back, and his legs looked to be a bit shaky. Maybe slightly premature, but I've seen a lot worse.

I also found the Foreman interview very interesting. I haven't seen much of him being interviewed inbetween the Ali loss and his first retirement.

I'm really not sure, Ali started to get a bit lazy in training and normally went into fight a bit out of shape after the Foreman fight, then again, Foreman was not the same mentally after the Ali fight and didn't look as devastating as he did before it so it's hard to say.

And the scorecards for the fight were crazy, Foreman definitely won more than 1 round.