I aint gonna totally bag MA but need to say a few things, MA always used to be mostly bull**** based on moivew where little dudes like Bruce Lee could knockout 20 or more attackers, that some little wiry dude with enough training can tirelessly flip guys over with their little finger. And all the mistique surrounding martial arts, secret death touches and all that crap. It wasnt until MMa that alot of the bull**** was exposed, how in the real world fights end up on the ground, fancy high ass taekwondo kicks dnt seem to work in a pub.

Dont get me wrong Boxers also crap on a bit how they can smash these M´artists in streetfights when its not always true. But now MMA has sorted the wheat from the chaff, that ya dont need to do all this bull**** meditation mystical crap, lots have thrown away the pijamas and just concentrate on effective fighting and thats it. And **** theres some good fighters out there now.

But the proof of how martials artists traditionally exaggerated their greatness is that how come these 20 dan, red star ****en ninja masters or whatever arent getting in the boxing ring and winning world titles with their deadly punches and ability to block or avoid everthing that comes their way? Why in early cage fighting you saw people like Dan Severn who had a background in greco-roman wrestling kick ass (and still is)? Aint nothing mystical about fighting. Its not just an ancient asian tradition, there are many European medieval fighting texts, showing how to wrestlem fight with swords, daggers etc. Effective **** used in real life and death battle. like here
http://www.thearma.org/RecommendedList.htm
And the mystical eastern philosophy **** pisses me off as well coz most of the Martists I know in reality are biigheaded and arrogant behind the veil of being some humble calm person.

They can't box because their punches would kill a man in 1 hit if his toes aren't crossed.

Most of it is total bull****. I'm far from a tough guy but I've been in a few bar fights, and all I really do is get them on the ground put my knee in their gut and pound on their head, boxing training doesn't really apply other than not gassing lol

first, learn how to spell MYSTIQUE correctly!

then move on to more advanced words and slowly build your vocabulary from 5th grade level to 6th.

I aint gonna totally bag MA but need to say a few things, MA always used to be mostly bull**** based on moivew where little dudes like Bruce Lee could knockout 20 or more attackers, that some little wiry dude with enough training can tirelessly flip guys over with their little finger. And all the mistique surrounding martial arts, secret death touches and all that crap. It wasnt until MMa that alot of the bull**** was exposed, how in the real world fights end up on the ground, fancy high ass taekwondo kicks dnt seem to work in a pub.

Dont get me wrong Boxers also crap on a bit how they can smash these M´artists in streetfights when its not always true. But now MMA has sorted the wheat from the chaff, that ya dont need to do all this bull**** meditation mystical crap, lots have thrown away the pijamas and just concentrate on effective fighting and thats it. And **** theres some good fighters out there now.

But the proof of how martials artists traditionally exaggerated their greatness is that how come these 20 dan, red star ****en ninja masters or whatever arent getting in the boxing ring and winning world titles with their deadly punches and ability to block or avoid everthing that comes their way? Why in early cage fighting you saw people like Dan Severn who had a background in greco-roman wrestling kick ass (and still is)? Aint nothing mystical about fighting. Its not just an ancient asian tradition, there are many European medieval fighting texts, showing how to wrestlem fight with swords, daggers etc. Effective **** used in real life and death battle. like here
http://www.thearma.org/RecommendedList.htm
And the mystical eastern philosophy **** pisses me off as well coz most of the Martists I know in reality are biigheaded and arrogant behind the veil of being some humble calm person.

Some MMA artists could beat some boxers, but a lot of them prefer stand up - and a lot of boxers have street fighting backgrounds.

I can't see a Floyd Mayweather losing to a Shaun Sherk for example. He's to quick, and boxer with MMA gloves = death.

I'm sure certain MMA artists would beat up on certain boxers to. I jsut don't agree that every MMA artist would automatically take a boxer to the ground and beat him, especially when a lot of them get knocked out in stand up from sub-par stand up fighters.

the thing is they aint gonna have time to get them on the ground(sometimes) most boxers punch alot harder then your average joe and say a boxer like kermit cintron he ain't gonna try and box you he's gonna be throwing a ****load of wild flurries and once one of them hits you your prolly gonna be out cold

Some MMA artists could beat some boxers, but a lot of them prefer stand up - and a lot of boxers have street fighting backgrounds.

I can't see a Floyd Mayweather losing to a Shaun Sherk for example. He's to quick, and boxer with MMA gloves = death.

I'm sure certain MMA artists would beat up on certain boxers to. I jsut don't agree that every MMA artist would automatically take a boxer to the ground and beat him, especially when a lot of them get knocked out in stand up from sub-par stand up fighters.
Today 04:04 AM


man, the water here is muddy. boxers only look better at boxing because that s all the have to worry about is punches to torso and head. they do not have to worry about elbows(much), or kicks or knees or chokes. now, i am not a huge fan of mma, more of a boxing fan and that is why i am on this forum since 2003.

no, of course not every mma guy will be able to take down a guy who specializes in stand up. i hate those bjj ****s who think like that actually - no disrespect to true artists, just the **** talking ****ers. but in mma sport there are more possibilities. and people who train those possibilities more will be more comfortable.

me, i come from a traditional backround. more closer to the **** u see bas rutten do in pancrase, or cung le do in sanshou or elite xc. except more efficient and not a big emphasis on kicking someone in the head - although i personally know that can end a fight. it is too high risk if u face a good fighter.

now, i wonder what a pure boxer would do if he knocked a bjj guy down on the ground? would he take the chance to get down and try a GnP? or would he just stand there and wait for bjj guy to get up?

the thing is they aint gonna have time to get them on the ground(sometimes) most boxers punch alot harder then your average joe and say a boxer like kermit cintron he ain't gonna try and box you he's gonna be throwing a ****load of wild flurries and once one of them hits you your prolly gonna be out cold


of ****ing course many boxers punch harder than many average joes. that doesn't really mean ****. anyne whi trains punching well will hit harder than they could before they trained. i actually have to be ****ing carefull just patting someone on the back. heavy hands it is called in boxing.

are u a boxing loyalist who thinks just by the virtues if boxing it gives a person an automatic advantage?

man, the water here is muddy. boxers only look better at boxing because that s all the have to worry about is punches to torso and head. they do not have to worry about elbows(much), or kicks or knees or chokes. now, i am not a huge fan of mma, more of a boxing fan and that is why i am on this forum since 2003.

no, of course not every mma guy will be able to take down a guy who specializes in stand up. i hate those bjj ****s who think like that actually - no disrespect to true artists, just the **** talking ****ers. but in mma sport there are more possibilities. and people who train those possibilities more will be more comfortable.

me, i come from a traditional backround. more closer to the **** u see bas rutten do in pancrase, or cung le do in sanshou or elite xc. except more efficient and not a big emphasis on kicking someone in the head - although i personally know that can end a fight. it is too high risk if u face a good fighter.

now, i wonder what a pure boxer would do if he knocked a bjj guy down on the ground? would he take the chance to get down and try a GnP? or would he just stand there and wait for bjj guy to get up?


If a boxer like Cintron hit you full blast with 3 oz gloves, he wouldn't need a ground and pound. A boxers stand up is so much better than an MMa artist it's even more technical on paper. A boxer masters the art of timing and form, although limited they are the best punchers in the world, it is one of the most proven sports.

Many boxers have knocked their opponents completely unconscious with one punch, using 10 oz gloves.

I saw a video of a 50+ year old Leonard on some radio show, he's not even a hard puncher and he knocked this generic tough guy on his ass in 9 seconds.

The same tough guy fights "Ricco" some old UFC heavyweight and it looks like some sloppy street fight, the heavyweight couldn't punch worth a rats ass.

The punching difference is so immense that it's a toss up. I think a slow puncher like Foreman would suffer the worst though because they come across as clumsy and easy to take down.

In my experience which is limited but whatever most martial artists or mixe martial artists have glass chins.

If a boxer like Cintron hit you full blast with 3 oz gloves, he wouldn't need a ground and pound. A boxers stand up is so much better than an MMa artist it's even more technical on paper. A boxer masters the art of timing and form, although limited they are the best punchers in the world, it is one of the most proven sports.

Many boxers have knocked their opponents completely unconscious with one punch, using 10 oz gloves.

I saw a video of a 50+ year old Leonard on some radio show, he's not even a hard puncher and he knocked this generic tough guy on his ass in 9 seconds.

The same tough guy fights "Ricco" some old UFC heavyweight and it looks like some sloppy street fight, the heavyweight couldn't punch worth a rats ass.

The punching difference is so immense that it's a toss up. I think a slow puncher like Foreman would suffer the worst though because they come across as clumsy and easy to take down.

sorry, i am no exactly sure wat u r talking about or what point u r trying to make. anyone trained in punching well can **** u up in 3 or 4 ounce gloves.

i am confident in my power output. my training is based in becoming as powerful as possible. so of course i can bang. but a good fighter will know u are going to punch and set trap for it. and u may not be able to hit a trained person very well. mma is nothing like boxing. because the gloves are so much thinner, it makes the punching different. bareknuckle boxing techniques wee much different because it was bareknuckle.

if kermit cintron hit a person with 3 ouncers like he does with boxing gloves, he may be out for a year with a broken hand. so not a good trade off. he may knock out opponent but look at the cost to him. he may never be able to punch the ame way with even half his old power.

In my experience which is limited but whatever most martial artists or mixe martial artists have glass chins.

okay, so u met some people who have glass chins. and...

In my experience which is limited but whatever most martial artists or mixe martial artists have glass chins.

That is the dumbest ****ing post i have seen on this forum, ever.

Somebodies ability to take a punch has nothing to do with what sport they practice, for all you know a guy that works at ****ing mcdonalds could have a great chin. You can somewhat learn to take a punch but if you have a glass chin you're going to kiss the floor, boxer, mma guy, or ****ing ballerina.

God you're a ****ing dumbass, go jump off a bridge or something.

That is the dumbest ****ing post i have seen on this forum, ever.

Somebodies ability to take a punch has nothing to do with what sport they practice, for all you know a guy that works at ****ing mcdonalds could have a great chin. You can somewhat learn to take a punch but if you have a glass chin you're going to kiss the floor, boxer, mma guy, or ****ing ballerina.

God you're a ****ing dumbass, go jump off a bridge or something.

what can i say? the correct has been pimp-slapped.

That is the dumbest ****ing post i have seen on this forum, ever.

Somebodies ability to take a punch has nothing to do with what sport they practice, for all you know a guy that works at ****ing mcdonalds could have a great chin. You can somewhat learn to take a punch but if you have a glass chin you're going to kiss the floor, boxer, mma guy, or ****ing ballerina.

God you're a ****ing dumbass, go jump off a bridge or something.

I think what he's saying is in MMA the fighters with glass chins make it, where as in boxing you won't ever make it big with a glass chin (even hearns or Jones have tough chins compared to the average Joe).

Most MMA fighters have as many losses as they have wins, it shows how un - professional the sport is.

martial arts are mostly bull**** i have to say.....

those guys arent used to taking hard punches and cant even hit paticuarly hard -compared to decent boxers that is, they would still probably make a normal guy look pretty bad...a good boxer just needs to land a clean shot (which they most likely will due to their superior reactions and handspeed as they can only punch) and any guy, martial artist jiu jitsu mma....would be out cold...wouldnt even depend on the size of the boxer.. they all hit ****ing hard compared to most people

but if a mma guy or judo guy landed a kick or a throw the boxer would be in trouble...

_anyone_ who does any sort of conditioning work can beat the average joe most of the time, assuming they're close in strength and weight (especially weight) most fights either end up with one guy on top (weight helps) or one guy getting too tired to fight

man, these comments make me sick. learn about something before u ****ing attempt to speak on it. just shows how ignorant people are.

haha. i laugh at these stereotypes or misunderstandings most of u have built in your head. non of it is even logical either.

boxers superior reactions lol. where did that statistic come from?
anyone who posts with any kind of authority on martial arts should be made to actually learn real martial arts in the first place so u don't sound so stupid! haha

if it is really so easy to beat a martial artists, pick one i approve of. or pick a club i approve of. maybe tell me what city u live in and i will find the best local MA group. then all of us can see who is tough enough to go and challenge a mere MA student lol.

_anyone_ who does any sort of conditioning work can beat the average joe most of the time, assuming they're close in strength and weight (especially weight) most fights either end up with one guy on top (weight helps) or one guy getting too tired to fight

the most fights end on the ground, if that is what u r referring to, is a bull**** stat taking from the la police department. of course it ends on the ground with cops - they wrestle u to the ground to handcuff u. so, bull**** stat.

That is the dumbest ****ing post i have seen on this forum, ever.

Somebodies ability to take a punch has nothing to do with what sport they practice, for all you know a guy that works at ****ing mcdonalds could have a great chin. You can somewhat learn to take a punch but if you have a glass chin you're going to kiss the floor, boxer, mma guy, or ****ing ballerina.

God you're a ****ing dumbass, go jump off a bridge or something.

actually he is right, everyone can do martial arts cause most martial arts aren't full contact but in boxing if you have a glass chin chances are 9/10 that after your first sparring match you wont go back to the boxing gym therfore statistically more people who do martial arts have glass chins then people who do boxing.

actually he is right, everyone can do martial arts cause most martial arts aren't full contact but in boxing if you have a glass chin chances are 9/10 that after your first sparring match you wont go back to the boxing gym therfore statistically more people who do martial arts have glass chins then people who do boxing.

When did i talk about traditional martial arts? I only mentioned mma.

And no he isnt right, and you aren't either. There is plenty of guys with glass chins who box. Your arguement doesn't make any sense having a good chin has nothing to do with boxing martial arts or mma. It's the way your head and neck are made, genetics.

Go back to pretending you aren't hinduw on youtube because you are too ****ing ashamed of yourself, ******.

When did i talk about traditional martial arts? I only mentioned mma.

And no he isnt right, and you aren't either. There is plenty of guys with glass chins who box. Your arguement doesn't make any sense having a good chin has nothing to do with boxing martial arts or mma. It's the way your head and neck are made, genetics.
Go back to pretending you aren't hinduw on youtube because you are too ****ing ashamed of yourself, ******.

yes i know that, and most people who box have that or else they would quit boxing unlike people who train traditional martial arts. And i was only talking about traditional martial arts.

i train in west palm beach where UFC fighter Hermes Franca teaches a jits class, and he be boxing the am's and pros at our gym. I've seen him spar wit them and well... he needs more practice in boxing, golden gloves champ usually works him.

im a big MMA fan since late PrideFC days and a big fan of boxing but i like boxing more. MMA fighters can give a boxer a run for its money.

if a boxer were to transition over to MMA, all he would need is good takedown defense, some muay thai, and some jits/wrestling, and he would dominate any MMA org IMO. I dont see any fighters with any decent boxing other than Anderson Silva and maybe Rampage.

Boxers and MMA fighters are ignorant when talking about each others sports respectively, i see it in my gym, some of you guys see it in your gym, we'll always see it in our gyms, that's just the way people are.

Our ideas of martial arts are tainted by McDojos which sell an idea of invulnerability, and latterly by the MMA craze in which any schmo can set up a gym, teach a sprawl and a combo or two and play heavy metal music while wearing overpriced designer t-shirts.

Our ideas of martial arts are tainted by McDojos which sell an idea of invulnerability, and latterly by the MMA craze in which any schmo can set up a gym, teach a sprawl and a combo or two and play heavy metal music while wearing overpriced designer t-shirts.

thank u squealpiggy for the best post besides mine on here so far.

that is exactly the problem.

anyone here even speaking on traditional arts, and how tey are and were practiced, is wrong. that simple.

everyone here besides me and squeal's last comment here is wrong. please do not comment on things u do not know. your credibility....well, u do not have any in martial arts. and getting your yellow belt in a karate mcdojo does not count.

yes i know that, and most people who box have that or else they would quit boxing unlike people who train traditional martial arts. And i was only talking about traditional martial arts.

u know nothing so please do not talk.

thank u

u know nothing so please do not talk.

thank u

explain...

man, the water here is muddy. boxers only look better at boxing because that s all the have to worry about is punches to torso and head. they do not have to worry about elbows(much), or kicks or knees or chokes.

true
but my post wasnt about boxing vs MMA. I have a healthy respect for MMA. It was about how the effectiveness of traditional martial arts is exaggerated.


me, i come from a traditional backround. more closer to the **** u see bas rutten do in pancrase, or cung le do in sanshou or elite xc. except more efficient

My guess without having seen you fight is that Bas rutten would kick your ass in any style, and if your style is more efficient than Rutten and Cung Le why dont you prove it by winning fights in MMA?

and if your style is that effective for boxing then how many amateur boxing titles do you hold? are you a pro contender? how many real boxing matches have you had? the trouble is with many martial artists they talk how great and effective their style is but it doesnt work in boxing.
This is a boxing forum last time I checked.
Like me trying to say how my break dancing and electric boogaloo makes me a more efficient boxer.

true
but my post wasnt about boxing vs MMA. I have a healthy respect for MMA. It was about how the effectiveness of traditional martial arts is exaggerated.



My guess without having seen you fight is that Bas rutten would kick your ass in any style, and if your style is more efficient than Rutten and Cung Le why dont you prove it by winning fights in MMA?

and if your style is that effective for boxing then how many amateur boxing titles do you hold? are you a pro contender? how many real boxing matches have you had? the trouble is with many martial artists they talk how great and effective their style is but it doesnt work in boxing.
This is a boxing forum last time I checked.
Like me trying to say how my break dancing and electric boogaloo makes me a more efficient boxer.

j is actually a fat geek who does nothing but watch old martial arts movies then comes here and pretends he is like some old wise sensei. i have exposed him several times with my former account fidayin.

first of, kids, i started 20 years ago - longer than u have been alive i imagine. second of all, where do u get exagerations from? sure, through time some stories get exaggerated. but having EXPERIENCE with some of todays top guys, i know FIRST-HAND what the people are capable of. and it is literally scary.

so, until u tell me what top guys you have trained with, sparred, or fought, why the hell should anyone take your "knowledge" seriously? yes, i an a big fat geek as evidenced by my photo.

u have been owned!

first of, kids, i started 20 years ago - longer than u have been alive i imagine. second of all, where do u get exagerations from? sure, through time some stories get exaggerated. but having EXPERIENCE with some of todays top guys, i know FIRST-HAND what the people are capable of. and it is literally scary.

so, until u tell me what top guys you have trained with, sparred, or fought, why the hell should anyone take your "knowledge" seriously? yes, i an a big fat geek as evidenced by my photo.

u have been owned!

name me some of todays top guys

These threads are hilarious. J mate, don't even bother. You will never get anywhere with any of them. No doubt the guys who are saying "So how many am titles do you have?" or "Are you a pro contender?", blah, blah, blah have never stepped foot inside any gym, let alone a boxing, martial art, or MMA gym. Why the f*ck would he have am titles or be a pro contender if he trains in martial arts....is the obvious question that should pop into your head.

Anyone who thinks any boxer will kill any martial artist or any MMA guy should ask themselves this one question, do you think you could get close to a boxers knees? Think about it. Don't forget that boxers train to fight someone standing straight up in front of them, not flying in towards their knees with their head down and below the waist of the boxer. It can be pretty hard to punch someone when they are in that position or when you are off balance falling backwards, or trying to keep yourself from falling backwards. Also rather difficult to get any power at all while that's happening if you think that you could knock out someone while they are shooting. Quite difficult to really hurt or KO someone with a glancing punch to the back of the head.

Anyway, these threads are just foolish. You'll very rarely get someone who doesn't have a bias for boxing here or that knows anything about MA and has actually trained properly in MA and not in some "Get your black-belt in two years Karate Dojo!", so you really can't speak on something you know nothing about. Rather like how you would feel if some history academic came up to you and started telling you they know everything about boxing and it's pro's and con's or ineffectiveness based on silly myths and stereotypes without ever having actually tried boxing or stepped inside a gym and that you know nothing about it.

name me some of todays top guys

Tell us who these people are that are great martial artists that you have made quit or that have these glass chins?

:lol1:

God, this place is hilarious sometimes!

These threads are hilarious. J mate, don't even bother. You will never get anywhere with any of them. No doubt the guys who are saying "So how many am titles do you have?" or "Are you a pro contender?", blah, blah, blah have never stepped foot inside any gym, let alone a boxing, martial art, or MMA gym. Why the f*ck would he have am titles or be a pro contender if he trains in martial arts....is the obvious question that should pop into your head.

Anyone who thinks any boxer will kill any martial artist or any MMA guy should ask themselves this one question, do you think you could get close to a boxers knees? Think about it. Don't forget that boxers train to fight someone standing straight up in front of them, not flying in towards their knees with their head down and below the waist of the boxer. It can be pretty hard to punch someone when they are in that position or when you are off balance falling backwards, or trying to keep yourself from falling backwards. Also rather difficult to get any power at all while that's happening if you think that you could knock out someone while they are shooting. Quite difficult to really hurt or KO someone with a glancing punch to the back of the head.

Anyway, these threads are just foolish. You'll very rarely get someone who doesn't have a bias for boxing here or that knows anything about MA and has actually trained properly in MA and not in some "Get your black-belt in two years Karate Dojo!", so you really can't speak on something you know nothing about. Rather like how you would feel if some history academic came up to you and started telling you they know everything about boxing and it's pro's and con's or ineffectiveness based on silly myths and stereotypes without ever having actually tried boxing or stepped inside a gym and that you know nothing about it.

First of all .- this is a boxing forum

The point is if the dude hasnt had any proper boxing matches why does he think he knows so much about boxing and how to be an effective boxer?
He could be effective in his sport and great in a street fight, so what? this is about boxing! the old dude in his signature taught martial arts, not boxing. And its typical of martial artists to exaggerate the real world fighting ability of
these old masters saying they can throw boxers around like 5 year olds. (note the word árt´ in martial arts - ie form over function)
I have had many am fights as well believe what ya want.
I respect M.artists that train full contact and with mixed styles, but boxing, in a ring, under boxing rules, is a different thing. If ya a M. artist and have had boxing matches or train in boxing great, if not ya experiences dont mean much here.

For example,years ago a dude at my gym fought his old Karate instructor in an amateur boxing match. He beat his instructor and won convincingly and he wasnt even all that good at boxing. In a karate comp he would of lost, in a street fight maybe as well. But in boxing it was a different story.

I aint gonna totally bag MA but need to say a few things, MA always used to be mostly bull**** based on moivew where little dudes like Bruce Lee could knockout 20 or more attackers, that some little wiry dude with enough training can tirelessly flip guys over with their little finger. And all the mistique surrounding martial arts, secret death touches and all that crap. It wasnt until MMa that alot of the bull**** was exposed, how in the real world fights end up on the ground, fancy high ass taekwondo kicks dnt seem to work in a pub.

Dont get me wrong Boxers also crap on a bit how they can smash these M´artists in streetfights when its not always true. But now MMA has sorted the wheat from the chaff, that ya dont need to do all this bull**** meditation mystical crap, lots have thrown away the pijamas and just concentrate on effective fighting and thats it. And **** theres some good fighters out there now.

But the proof of how martials artists traditionally exaggerated their greatness is that how come these 20 dan, red star ****en ninja masters or whatever arent getting in the boxing ring and winning world titles with their deadly punches and ability to block or avoid everthing that comes their way? Why in early cage fighting you saw people like Dan Severn who had a background in greco-roman wrestling kick ass (and still is)? Aint nothing mystical about fighting. Its not just an ancient asian tradition, there are many European medieval fighting texts, showing how to wrestlem fight with swords, daggers etc. Effective **** used in real life and death battle. like here
http://www.thearma.org/RecommendedList.htm
And the mystical eastern philosophy **** pisses me off as well coz most of the Martists I know in reality are biigheaded and arrogant behind the veil of being some humble calm person.





Just because 99.9% of the people claiming to be martial artists are charlatans, does not mean that martial arts is a fraud. What you see in the cage is streetfighting which requires few skills and little training. I think you should avoid drawing conclusions about one thing when in fact you are looking at something else.

Tell us who these people are that are great martial artists that you have made quit or that have these glass chins?

:lol1:

God, this place is hilarious sometimes!

ok you name me couple of martial artist who have great chins, you can't cause they aren't tested. I can show you a video of some grand master getting knockt the **** out by a b-class mma fighter but i gues you have already seen that video.

this thread is sorta pointless

ok you name me couple of martial artist who have great chins, you can't cause they aren't tested. I can show you a video of some grand master getting knockt the **** out by a b-class mma fighter but i gues you have already seen that video.

Mirko crocop
Andy hug (rest in peace)
Peter Aerts
Ernesto Hoost
Matt Skelton (when he fought in muay thai)


and many more, the question is difficult to answer as where is the line between martial artists and freestyle (mma) fighters. Most fighters who actually fight in the ring cross train hence they are technically mixed martial artists. The grandmasters, senseis, sifus and teachers of martial arts generally just teach and don't fight hence they might be good at teaching and traing people but not so good in the ring as they simply don't train for competitive fighting.

Mirko crocop
Andy hug (rest in peace)
Peter Aerts
Ernesto Hoost
Matt Skelton (when he fought in muay thai)


and many more, the question is difficult to answer as where is the line between martial artists and freestyle (mma) fighters. Most fighters who actually fight in the ring cross train hence they are technically mixed martial artists. The grandmasters, senseis, sifus and teachers of martial arts generally just teach and don't fight hence they might be good at teaching and traing people but not so good in the ring as they simply don't train for competitive fighting.



That's like saying a grandmaster at chess can't win a chess match. Either you know what you are doing or you don't.

That's like saying a grandmaster at chess can't win a chess match. Either you know what you are doing or you don't.

A fair point, but what i'm saying is that knowing and being able to perform the techniques is not enough for competitive fighting. The conditioning including impact training, muscular development and overall fitness is not always maintained by many martial arts instructors, who only teach. Also the psychological factors of being "hungry" and "wanting to fight" are also somewhat lessened by many martial arts instructors (in my experience). Finally many martial arts instructors do 9 to 5s like everyone else and are relatively normal non violent people (actually some instructors i've met, preach non violence) who have no wish to fight anyone. Also many people don't train to fight and couldn't fight even if they wanted to (psychological factor) and only train for fitness, deal with stress, enlightenment, etc.

I thought it was pretty ****in obvious in my post that it was just an opinion i said "in my experience which is very limited" i just ****in threw something out there and you guys started acting like i was speaking blasphemy

Almost all boxers in pros can take a punch because you need to be able to take a punch in the pros because that is gonna be the first thing to be exposed. In MMA it isnt exposed as much because there are more dimensions to the fight, so the ratio of boxers to MMA or MA fighters with weak chins is lopsided in boxings favor most likely.

Either way i dont give a **** about whos tougher i was just saying something i thought... im a boxer i dont care if i can beat up a mixed martial artist cause that wont happen i only have to fight other boxers.

Equilibrium go **** yourself, i dont care if you disagree with me just dont be an ******* about it. same thing with j

since when was this topic about training or nutrition?

I thought it was pretty ****in obvious in my post that it was just an opinion i said "in my experience which is very limited" i just ****in threw something out there and you guys started acting like i was speaking blasphemy

Almost all boxers in pros can take a punch because you need to be able to take a punch in the pros because that is gonna be the first thing to be exposed. In MMA it isnt exposed as much because there are more dimensions to the fight, so the ratio of boxers to MMA or MA fighters with weak chins is lopsided in boxings favor most likely.

Either way i dont give a **** about whos tougher i was just saying something i thought... im a boxer i dont care if i can beat up a mixed martial artist cause that wont happen i only have to fight other boxers.

Equilibrium go **** yourself, i dont care if you disagree with me just dont be an ******* about it. same thing with j

don't argue with them, they have watched one to many dragon bal z episodes

this thread is pointless honestly foreal

the argument that mma is more like a streetfight is bull**** because they are both sports and it has nothing to do with it. besides in mma they do **** that leaves their junk wide open and put their face in your chest they'd get their eyes gauged in a streetfight. stupid argument.

man, these comments make me sick. learn about something before u ****ing attempt to speak on it. just shows how ignorant people are.

haha. i laugh at these stereotypes or misunderstandings most of u have built in your head. non of it is even logical either.

boxers superior reactions lol. where did that statistic come from?
anyone who posts with any kind of authority on martial arts should be made to actually learn real martial arts in the first place so u don't sound so stupid! haha

if it is really so easy to beat a martial artists, pick one i approve of. or pick a club i approve of. maybe tell me what city u live in and i will find the best local MA group. then all of us can see who is tough enough to go and challenge a mere MA student lol.


with all due respect, you should probably join a martial arts forum

of course you will get biased boxers reactions here, its a boxing forum and we all box

First of all .- this is a boxing forum

The point is if the dude hasnt had any proper boxing matches why does he think he knows so much about boxing and how to be an effective boxer?
He could be effective in his sport and great in a street fight, so what? this is about boxing! the old dude in his signature taught martial arts, not boxing. And its typical of martial artists to exaggerate the real world fighting ability of
these old masters saying they can throw boxers around like 5 year olds. (note the word árt´ in martial arts - ie form over function)
I have had many am fights as well believe what ya want.
I respect M.artists that train full contact and with mixed styles, but boxing, in a ring, under boxing rules, is a different thing. If ya a M. artist and have had boxing matches or train in boxing great, if not ya experiences dont mean much here.

Indeed it is a boxing forum. Wasn't it you who created a thread about martial arts though? While it is a boxing forum, can a martial artist not be interested in both boxing and martial arts? They are both rather similar.

You're right though. Many martial arts and the fighters/effects of, can be overly exaggerated but I don't believe that is so much from the actual fighters or martial artists that actually do train to fight, but are actually exaggerated by the ones that don't fight but are interested in the culture and philosophy of it all and get caught up in the myths and tradition of it all.

I have trained a lot in both boxing from a very young age and also in Sanda/Sanshou, which if you don't know is a martial art that is, to put it very simply, like Muay Thai with throws. Good, effective, simple fighting style. No BS. I'm certainly not going to pretend I can beat any boxer or anything because I don't care about that. I love both boxing and Sanda. I'm training in boxing much more again right now after a long hiatus from all training in general, but I fought when I was younger in the amateurs for boxing before giving it up to train and fight in martial arts. Like any sport, in boxing the boxer will beat the other guy and in martial arts the MA will beat the boxer. They are sports and this is not street fighting.

I don't know man, I just don't get the whole macho need to pretend that something is better than another. You see it everywhere and in everything. "That UFC guy would own a boxer in MMA rules! Boxing sucks!" or "Mayweather would own every MMA guy! They wouldn't even be able to touch him and after one punch they would be knocked out cold!" are all arguments you hear from each faction. They are all stupid.

I think this thread comes down to one thing. Many martial artists don't train for fighting anymore. The majority is about fitness and health and while some pretend that they still can fight the majority don't pretend any such thing and actually dissuade students from thinking that way. Also, there are some that train for fighting but in their own rules. Like any sport, each one has it's own set of rules to follow which makes none superior to another. If you're a great boxer you're great in boxing rules. If you're a great Karate guy you're going to be great in Karate fighting rules. There are a few that also still train for simple, plain effective street fighting.

You'll always get purists that will never admit that something else is good or interesting and will refuse to budge on their view that everything but what they do is inferior. Sad people, but they're are the small minded, sad ones. Like anything there are good fighters and bad fighters in every style, whether it be boxing, Karate or MMA. I don't think you can judge either one until you've actually trained with or even fought with the very good ones in each or make wild assumptions about something even though you probably have no idea what you're talking about (this isn't aimed at you by the way. Just a general statement). Like the weak chin thing some people have been saying. That is quite simply impossible to know. I've seen both boxers and MA's that have both good and bad chins. There is no rule that makes boxers tougher and if you think there is, you're just small minded. It's ridiculous to think that someone with a weak chin will leave boxing because they get hurt whereas in MA they would stay. People don't get weeded out like that.

Anyway, I think, as I mentioned previously, that it comes down to the simple fact that a lot of people use MA for health and fitness now and so the majority don't train to fight. The ones that do can fight and fight well. Just have a look at some Sanshou. Great fighters. I believe J mentioned Cung Le who is a Sanshou guy. He's a good fighter. There are also just as many people who do boxing for fitness now and it's getting more popular as a fitness sport instead of a fighting sport. The same thing applies. Those that do it for fitness will probably never spar and therefore cannot fight. Boxing still has more sparring than most martial arts do though. Doesn't make it any better or anything like though. Just different purposes. That's all. If you box, great. Are you good at it? If you do martial arts, great. Are you good at that? Each to his own and all that stuff.

Good post Benny

this is why i take boxing on weekdays and Muay Thai on weekends lol.

anybody ever been in a nightclub brawl? with people shoulder to shoulder, there is only one sport that can do damage in that situation, boxing. you dont have room to use kickboxing, you cant a taekwondo axe kick, there is no way you can wrestle a guy to the ground put in a arm/leg lock or anything like that because there is no room.

what you can do however, is use the sweet science of boxing, short hooks to the jaw, straight rights, you can throw an uppercut to the bottom of the chin - needing no space at all. all you need is a little step to throw a potential KO overhand right to end the situation

anybody ever been in a nightclub brawl? with people shoulder to shoulder, there is only one sport that can do damage in that situation, boxing. you dont have room to use kickboxing, you cant a taekwondo axe kick, there is no way you can wrestle a guy to the ground put in a arm/leg lock or anything like that because there is no room.

what you can do however, is use the sweet science of boxing, short hooks to the jaw, straight rights, you can throw an uppercut to the bottom of the chin - needing no space at all. all you need is a little step to throw a potential KO overhand right to end the situation

Thats what I keep telling people but they're too ignorant to think for a minute.

anybody ever been in a nightclub brawl? with people shoulder to shoulder, there is only one sport that can do damage in that situation, boxing. you dont have room to use kickboxing, you cant a taekwondo axe kick, there is no way you can wrestle a guy to the ground put in a arm/leg lock or anything like that because there is no room.

what you can do however, is use the sweet science of boxing, short hooks to the jaw, straight rights, you can throw an uppercut to the bottom of the chin - needing no space at all. all you need is a little step to throw a potential KO overhand right to end the situation

Speaking from experience from managing a pub, most people are drunk and havent got great balance so some basic wrestling moves work well to, sometimes the crowd is too tight to get in some good punches. Anyway heres some moves that could easily be used in pub fights (some of them anyway) from Bas Rutten

I love this vid by the way and was looking for the excuse to post it.

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Lol epic video.

Speaking from experience from managing a pub, most people are drunk and havent got great balance so some basic wrestling moves work well to, sometimes the crowd is too tight to get in some good punches. Anyway heres some moves that could easily be used in pub fights (some of them anyway) from Bas Rutten

I love this vid by the way and was looking for the excuse to post it.

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lmfao! look at 6:12 lmfao!

The comic video made by a laughable redneck who thinks he knows how to fight. I have no doubt that he get lots of practise on some of the drunks down at the local bar.



Speaking from experience from managing a pub, most people are drunk and havent got great balance so some basic wrestling moves work well to, sometimes the crowd is too tight to get in some good punches. Anyway heres some moves that could easily be used in pub fights (some of them anyway) from Bas Rutten

I love this vid by the way and was looking for the excuse to post it.

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The comic video made by a laughable redneck who thinks he knows how to fight. I have no doubt that he get lots of practise on some of the drunks down at the local bar.

Thats no laughable redneck who thinks he knows how to fight!! thats Bas Rutten

"He was a three time King of Pancrase, former Ultimate Fighting Championship Heavyweight Champion, and is a certified MTBN Thai Boxing instructor, Pancrase instructor, and has a 5th Degree Black Belt in Kyokushin karate and a 2nd Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do"

This guy can certainly fight Potatoes! maybe you should retract those comments???

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You are right, and I will give you GK tomorrow! I did martial arts when I was younger and it was a big ****ing waste of time. I realised a bit too late. the biggest regret of my life is dedicating so much training time in my youth to bull****! Hocus pocus, make believe!

If he knew how to fight he wouldn't be demonstrating techniques that require the practioner to be bigger, stronger, faster and more sober than his opponent. I've seen lots of the 47th degree blackbelt honkydory experts in the cage, and all of them looked like streetfighters.


Thats no laughable redneck who thinks he knows how to fight!! thats Bas Rutten

"He was a three time King of Pancrase, former Ultimate Fighting Championship Heavyweight Champion, and is a certified MTBN Thai Boxing instructor, Pancrase instructor, and has a 5th Degree Black Belt in Kyokushin karate and a 2nd Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do"

This guy can certainly fight Potatoes! maybe you should retract those comments???

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If he knew how to fight he wouldn't be demonstrating techniques that require the practioner to be bigger, stronger, faster and more sober than his opponent. I've seen lots of the 47th degree blackbelt honkydory experts in the cage, and all of them looked like streetfighters.

Ok whatever, maybe you should tell him to his face he doesnt know how to fight lol.

If ya watch the video ya can see that this is a dude trained in various traditional martial arts but actually does know effective fighting not all that typical mystical bull****, for that he gets alot of respect!

MMA is for bums who were not good enough for the bigtime of boxing, as floyd pointed out! That even includes the ex-boxers in there! they are always bums and never made it. i know a few cagefighters who were crap at boxing. It was too hard for them. Same old story.

If ya watch the video ya can see that this is a dude trained in various traditional martial arts but actually does know effective fighting not all that typical mystical bull****, for that he gets alot of respect!


That video was a pathetic effort to make him look good. In fact it made him look bad to anybody who can actually see what is going on.

You are right, and I will give you GK tomorrow! I did martial arts when I was younger and it was a big ****ing waste of time. I realised a bit too late. the biggest regret of my life is dedicating so much training time in my youth to bull****! Hocus pocus, make believe!

same story, did 8 years karate. In the first month of boxing i learnd more then 8 years of karate.

LOL, and probably more intense training too! I kinda clicked on martial arts were bull**** when the TaeKwonDo instructor said not to do hooks because they were too 'dangerous' and someone might get knocked out!