I am not upset about GW being re-elected. How can I be? He won the majority of the popular vote by a hefty margin. We live in a democracy, even if the electoral college were not a factor, he won that election.

What does upset me is the lack of youth (18-25) participation in our political process. I bought into the hype and thought that the young people were going to get out to vote. That did not happen. Because it didn't, my generation deserves a draft.

I hope you go first then, hero

I am not upset about GW being re-elected. How can I be? He won the majority of the popular vote by a hefty margin. We live in a democracy, even if the electoral college were not a factor, he won that election.

What does upset me is the lack of youth (18-25) participation in our political process. I bought into the hype and thought that the young people were going to get out to vote. That did not happen. Because it didn't, my generation deserves a draft.


I would:


Cut off my Trigger Fingers
Flee to another country
Gladly to go a pound me in the ass blue collar prison


War is not an option for me.

Neils

I will volunteer for the Navy if the bill comes to the house and senate.....if I am still in this country.

Neils

The young people in this country need to give a ****. Plain and simple.

I am not upset that Bush won. If Bush won and the turnout among young people was 40% I would be HAPPY right now. But the turnout was only like 17%.

Neils

The young people in this country need to give a ****. Plain and simple.

I am not upset that Bush won. If Bush won and the turnout among young people was 40% I would be HAPPY right now. But the turnout was only like 17%.



I was quite disappointed as it seemed a lot of younger voters turned out at campaigns but failed to arrive that the polling stations......

Although I voted Kerry, I am happy either way...Actually things are looking better even France has said they will accept that Bush is president and cooperate with us once again :eek: That is a pretty big deal, a lot of other countries are now supporting us and coming around...

This could be a good day to be an american as yesterday it was bad....

The storm my be clearing?

I was quite disappointed as it seemed a lot of younger voters turned out at campaigns but failed to arrive that the polling stations......

Although I voted Kerry, I am happy either way...Actually things are looking better even France has said they will accept that Bush is president and cooperate with us once again :eek: That is a pretty big deal, a lot of other countries are now supporting us and coming around...

This could be a good day to be an american as yesterday it was bad....

The storm my be clearing?

It all depends how much power the neo-cons have this time around. They start rattling their sabres about Iran or some such place then it will be even worse this time around.

My guess is that this will be a pretty benign term. Most second terms are, since the president has little to gain or lose. Plus Iraq has been such a debacle even the most die-hard conservatives know that a second war would be a hard sell.

I'd say there's little to worry about for the moment.

It all depends how much power the neo-cons have this time around. They start rattling their sabres about Iran or some such place then it will be even worse this time around.

My guess is that this will be a pretty benign term. Most second terms are, since the president has little to gain or lose. Plus Iraq has been such a debacle even the most die-hard conservatives know that a second war would be a hard sell.

I'd say there's little to worry about for the moment.


All other world leaders that are more accepting of the re-election all agreed that their needs to be stability in Iraq and they are willing to cooperate to help stabilize Iraq and finish what was started, this is extremely good news for the whole world....We might not agree on a lot of things (from country to country) but atleast they seem to agree on this and this promotes Unity and will restore a fragment of order and possibly give everyone a better tomorrow.


Anything can be better then what has been going in for the past 2-3 years.

Neils

The young people in this country need to give a ****. Plain and simple.

I am not upset that Bush won. If Bush won and the turnout among young people was 40% I would be HAPPY right now. But the turnout was only like 17%.

Who cares if you're happy. Voting is not an obligation. Remember all that "land of the free" propaganda we're fed since elementary school?

What you're saying is that innocent Americans should risk death in a war. At least those who signed up were aware there was a possibility....

Who cares if you're happy. Voting is not an obligation. Remember all that "land of the free" propaganda we're fed since elementary school?

What you're saying is that innocent Americans should risk death in a war. At least those who signed up were aware there was a possibility....

Its not an obligation. But you can't complain when the world holds YOU personally responsible for the actions of your leaders. Nor do you have the right to complain about the president if you did not vote.

I am dead set against the war. But for my generation to understand the consequences of their continued apathy, something EXTREME like this needs to happen.

Its not an obligation. But you can't complain when the world holds YOU personally responsible for the actions of your leaders. Nor do you have the right to complain about the president if you did not vote.

I am dead set against the war. But for my generation to understand the consequences of their continued apathy, something EXTREME like this needs to happen.


Your first paragraph is more propaganda. Why can't people complain? Tell me a South Dakota voter for Kerry would have spent his time in a practical manner by standing in line to vote for a guy with no chance in his state.

Go ahead and volunteer, then. That's one less possibility that someone close to me will die as a result of forced involvement in the largest terrorist organization in the world's pseudo-noble slaughter of tens of thousands over a freakin' oil pipeline.

All other world leaders that are more accepting of the re-election all agreed that their needs to be stability in Iraq and they are willing to cooperate to help stabilize Iraq and finish what was started, this is extremely good news for the whole world....We might not agree on a lot of things (from country to country) but atleast they seem to agree on this and this promotes Unity and will restore a fragment of order and possibly give everyone a better tomorrow.


Anything can be better then what has been going in for the past 2-3 years.

As long as it ends in Iraq everything will be fine. If someone in the Bush camp starts making noise about invading another country, then we're all in trouble again.

My guess is that the memories of the mess in Iraq are still too fresh for anyone to try anything anytime soon. But I'll bet you in 50 years the powers-that-be will rewrite history and claim that Iraq was good for the world. And then they may start beating the war drums again.

As long as it ends in Iraq everything will be fine. If someone in the Bush camp starts making noise about invading another country, then we're all in trouble again.

My guess is that the memories of the mess in Iraq are still too fresh for anyone to try anything anytime soon. But I'll bet you in 50 years the powers-that-be will rewrite history and claim that Iraq was good for the world. And then they may start beating the war drums again.



I dont think we have any intentions of doing anything else in Iraq other then finishing it and getting ourselves back on track, Bush says he wouldnt have changed a thing and would do it the same way he had done it but I dont think he would go to war again.....

We need to stabilize Iraq and put it in order and get more search groups out for Osama Bin Laden and bring him to justice....

"Benign second-term"....

Very possible...
But, what I fear we may see.....Bush allowing more of his religious/moral beliefs coming into play.
He does not have to worry about turning off moderate Republicans by doing so, at this point.

I dont think we have any intentions of doing anything else in Iraq other then finishing it and getting ourselves back on track, Bush says he wouldnt have changed a thing and would do it the same way he had done it but I dont think he would go to war again.....

We need to stabilize Iraq and put it in order and get more search groups out for Osama Bin Laden and bring him to justice....

I agree, and it seems that public opinion is going that way as well. A lot of experts agree that neo-cons like Rumsfeld have had their time in the spotlight but that their mistakes cost them a chance to hold onto power. Hopefully there will be more sensible people in charge who will put practical interests ahead of ideologies and corporate wants.

I dont think we have any intentions of doing anything else in Iraq other then finishing it and getting ourselves back on track, Bush says he wouldnt have changed a thing and would do it the same way he had done it but I dont think he would go to war again.....

We need to stabilize Iraq and put it in order and get more search groups out for Osama Bin Laden and bring him to justice....

We have the potential to have already gotten Bin Laden if in fact that was really what we wanted to do. Right now he's a scapegoat for reduced freedoms, any terrorist incident we want to pin on him...

We need Bin Laden so Americans will have a bogeyman to fear. Don't think that "CIA-authenticated" tape wasn't produced & timed with specific intentions.

We had "no idea" that 9/11 would happen, but would could get Bin Laden's face on the TV within a matter of minutes...

Dude is bad, and dude's a killer - but dude is the same as the guy we just elected. They just assume different positions in the same evil game.

We have the potential to have already gotten Bin Laden if in fact that was really what we wanted to do. Right now he's a scapegoat for reduced freedoms, any terrorist incident we want to pin on him...


They don't need Osama as a scapegoat when they have Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Syria, Al-Qaeda in general, so-called Muslim "fundamentalists" in general, Chechens, and anyone else they feel like.

If Osama hid in some oil fields, guaranteed the entire might of the U.S. army would be there to get him.

We have the potential to have already gotten Bin Laden if in fact that was really what we wanted to do. Right now he's a scapegoat for reduced freedoms, any terrorist incident we want to pin on him...

We need Bin Laden so Americans will have a bogeyman to fear. Don't think that "CIA-authenticated" tape wasn't produced & timed with specific intentions.

We had "no idea" that 9/11 would happen, but would could get Bin Laden's face on the TV within a matter of minutes...

Dude is bad, and dude's a killer - but dude is the same as the guy we just elected. They just assume different positions in the same evil game.


I thought it was rather ironic, we have afghanistan search groups looking for him and not u.s. troops, that didnt make much sense to me.....I suppose you are right that we need him in a way to make us look better. But we cant let him do the same thing he had done before....


Maybe they hesitated on capturing him and to release that tape so it would give bush the edge, but in his 2nd term if he wants to get praised and erase the hatred a lot of americans have for him we should capture him and bring him to justice....


Bush needed Osama not us and he might have given him the edge in the elections but we need to exterminate him, especially if Bush is victorious......

You just said a lot of stuff that Joe American wouldn't recognize. We need a figure for the simple and the naive, the average American who believes everything they see on the 6 o clock news or on page 1 of the paper, doesn't question, and goes along with basic principles like "Vote or Die", "Columbus Discovered America", "Iraq is a threat", "McVeigh was solely responsible for Oklahoma City", "We're fighting to defend our freedoms (when we go to war)", "People who die in wars are automatically heroes", etc.

I thought it was rather ironic, we have afghanistan search groups looking for him and not u.s. troops, that didnt make much sense to me.....I suppose you are right that we need him in a way to make us look better. But we cant let him do the same thing he had done before....


Maybe they hesitated on capturing him and to release that tape so it would give bush the edge, but in his 2nd term if he wants to get praised and erase the hatred a lot of americans have for him we should capture him and bring him to justice....


Bush needed Osama not us and he might have given him the edge in the elections but we need to exterminate him, especially if Bush is victorious......

You're going on the assumption that 1) we actually want to capture the guy, 2) he's not in some way STILL connected to our CIA and black ops and 3)There is some way to "bring him to justice"

We captured Saddam, then immediately declared him as mentally impaired, irreversably, and sent him away. Shouldn't that have been FRONT PAGE NEWS on like EVERY FREAKIN' NETWORK until a judgment was made? Weren't we trying to act like he was the reason we were trying to take over the region?

Americans have short attention spans and too much blind trust...

You just said a lot of stuff that Joe American wouldn't recognize. We need a figure for the simple and the naive, the average American who believes everything they see on the 6 o clock news or on page 1 of the paper, doesn't question, and goes along with basic principles like "Vote or Die", "Columbus Discovered America", "Iraq is a threat", "McVeigh was solely responsible for Oklahoma City", "We're fighting to defend our freedoms (when we go to war)", "People who die in wars are automatically heroes", etc.

True, true. I wonder if Bush is really going to go after the man now, though, so he will have a "crowning achievement" in this second term and can claim that he was the won who "won" the "war on terror" (notice all the quotes denoting sarcasm).

You just said a lot of stuff that Joe American wouldn't recognize. We need a figure for the simple and the naive, the average American who believes everything they see on the 6 o clock news or on page 1 of the paper, doesn't question, and goes along with basic principles like "Vote or Die", "Columbus Discovered America", "Iraq is a threat", "McVeigh was solely responsible for Oklahoma City", "We're fighting to defend our freedoms (when we go to war)", "People who die in wars are automatically heroes", etc.



Joe America=90% of America

I don't know what's true any more than anyone else, but at least I make some type of attempt to not just believe blindly in what politically motivated, huge corporation-owned, network TV stations tell me.

Some interesting links:

http://infowars.com/print/Sept11/binbush4.htm
http://joevialls.altermedia.info/iraq/vaudeville.html
http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=independent_news&collectionid=911theRoadtoTyranny
http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=opensource_movies&collectionid=Masters_of_Terror
http://www.911uncovered.com/

Neils

I completely agree with your political views as far as the war goes.

I just feel that in order to change anything SOMETHING needs to make the youth care. What else do you think it could be?

An interesting stat related to this is the sharp increase in the number of kids who live in their parents' houses well into their twenties. This proportion has increased bigtime among the middle and upper classes. Spoiled brats gets so used to living off Mommy and Daddy and don't understand how tough the real world is. And Mommy and Daddy complain about their taxes because they're spolied Baby Boomers and don't care about anyone but themselves. And this whole family lives in a suburb sealed off from the "problem" areas of the country. Put it all together and you have one big Fantasyland.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4427/127hl7.jpg

This is a trend eh? I dont know why I'm replying because I dont have input on this topic >.>

I am not upset about GW being re-elected. How can I be? He won the majority of the popular vote by a hefty margin. We live in a democracy, even if the electoral college were not a factor, he won that election.

What does upset me is the lack of youth (18-25) participation in our political process. I bought into the hype and thought that the young people were going to get out to vote. That did not happen. Because it didn't, my generation deserves a draft.

Because they didn't vote? That seems pretty ignorant.

I am not upset about GW being re-elected. How can I be? He won the majority of the popular vote by a hefty margin. We live in a democracy, even if the electoral college were not a factor, he won that election.

What does upset me is the lack of youth (18-25) participation in our political process. I bought into the hype and thought that the young people were going to get out to vote. That did not happen. Because it didn't, my generation deserves a draft.
**** you *******. The draft blows.

Neils

The young people in this country need to give a ****. Plain and simple.

I am not upset that Bush won. If Bush won and the turnout among young people was 40% I would be HAPPY right now. But the turnout was only like 17%.

It's because young people these days by and large are morons who care about nothing but themselves. Im sure you've heard those man on the street interviews where they ask some rondom on the street who the vice president is, and they have no idea. Im afriad that is more the rule than the expection in this country. I think that you're right that a draft would force the younger population to be more aware of world politics, but its a shame that it would need to come to that. The sad thing is, I think you may be right.

Neils

I completely agree with your political views as far as the war goes.

I just feel that in order to change anything SOMETHING needs to make the youth care. What else do you think it could be?


Lukahn,

I have always enjoyed reading your stuff-it has been a while but Im glad to be listening to you again.

I hear exactly what you are saying I just think it came off a little ackward.

I think we should reinstate the draft as well not becuase Bush won the election but for the sole purpose of checks and balances.

Does anyone think we would have gone to war in Iraq if the draft had been reinstated before hand?

No, we wouldnt have.

Im with you Lukahn-the youth doesnt participate and what you are saying is if the draft was reinstated they sure as hell would participate...they would go to the polls in droves.

We saw no real movement in this country against the war during the buildup-how the **** come?...imagine if the college students in this country were going to be thrown into a draft pool...guess what we would have seen a uniform protest from campus to campus all acrross the country...there would have 1) been no war or 2) Bush would have been destroyed in his second term.

Bringing the draft back is one helluva a way to get the youth involved in this country, in this posters mind if the draft existed the Iraq war would not.