View Full Version : Insightfull:New Leonard/Hagler Book Out!


`STEELHEAD
08-19-2008, 09:42 PM
quoted from article by Graham Houston:

"Even now fight fans debate the decision rendered in the bout between Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvelous Marvin Hagler. In Sorcery at Caesars, Steve Marantz, who covered the event for The Boston Globe, provides an informative and diverting look back at the fight, tracing the steps of each man to the magical night at Caesars Palace in 1987 before examining the fight itself and its aftermath.
“Magical” is probably the right word. Leonard not only took Hagler’s middleweight title with a display of ring wizardry, he also, as the author noted, in a sense made Hagler disappear: the former champion dropped from sight, retired from boxing (http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204244#) and even moved to Italy.
In Marantz’s view, Leonard set up Hagler in boxing’s version of a classic sting operation.
Sugar Ray picked exactly the right time to fight Hagler, scored subtle psychological points in the build-up and used the perfect, almost sleight-of-hand tactics in the bout itself to get away with the decision.
The author deals even-handedly with the out-of-ring problems of both men — the infidelities, cocaine abuse and, in Hagler’s case, episodes of heavy drinking, but his sympathies seem to rest with Marvelous Marvin, the grind-it-out professional against the glitzy trickster. Or, in Marantz’s metaphorical interpretation of the two men: “Leonard was Hollywood, the catwalk, sushi, desktop computing and the future. Hagler was Main Street, a 30-year mortgage, a burger with fries, a factory that closed, and the past.”
Hagler had his character defects, but Leonard comes across as having a dual personality, with deviousness not too far below the surface.
It seems that Hagler considered Leonard a friend and confided to him that he was weary of boxing, that the old drive was missing. Leonard immediately sensed that now was the right time to negotiate a fight with Hagler: “All of these things I heard him say was not from a guy who was still concerned about boxing ... and I used that to my advantage.”
However, Leonard did things his way, subtly, some might say slyly, letting some time pass, then suggesting that Hagler make the phone call to set the wheels in motion — in other words making it seem that the champion was the one issuing the challenge.
At the showbiz-style press conference to announce the fight, Marantz writes, Hagler wore a sensible suit while Leonard looked sensational in a tapered, white leather, custom-made $1,200 Italian jacket, immediately establishing which fighter was the star of the show, or, as Marantz puts it: “No question which was the tortoise and which the hare.”
Marantz’s account of the big fight itself contains comments from the three judges and the reasons why they scored rounds the way they did, with Mexico’s Jo Jo Guerra predictably sticking to his guns that Leonard had in effect outclassed Hagler.
The author acknowledges Leonard’s talent as a remarkable fighter, the guts as well as the guile, noting the way that Sugar Ray fought his way out of trouble in a gruelling ninth round: “At the instant when it seemed Leonard must crumble, his gloves came alive.”
When reviewing a work such as this I always wonder what it will tell me that I didn’t already know, and Sorcery at Caesars told me quite a lot while reminding me of things that I had forgotten. For instance, the Hagler camp vetoed Harry Gibbs as a judge, thinking that the British official might favour Leonard’s stylish boxing. The Hagler people apparently forgot that Gibbs had scored Roberto Duran the winner over Leonard in Montreal. Instead of Gibbs, Mexican judge Guerra was approved by the Hagler side as the international official, and we all know what happened there — and, irony of ironies, Gibbs later told reporters that when he watched the fight he had Hagler winning.
One minor quibble: When writing about Leonard’s path to the Olympic light-welterweight gold-medal bout in 1976, Marantz records that Sugar Ray beat “a Swede, Russian, East German and a Pole” — in fact, Leonard also defeated Britain’s Clinton McKenzie, in the third series, at the Montreal Olympics; Leonard had to get through five opponents to reach the final. Leonard’s win over McKenzie was a unanimous decision under the old, conventional way of scoring Olympic bouts (20 points to a winner of the round), but the south London southpaw put up a strong showing and one of the five judges had Leonard ahead by just one point, 59-58. McKenzie told British reporters: “Leonard thought he had an easy job, but he found he made a mistake.”
With that out of the way, I can cheerfully report that I found Sorcery at Caesars to be an engrossing read. When I put the book down for a while, I was always eager to pick it up again to continue following the author’s narrative, and I can’t give a higher recommendation than that."

anyone read it?

you know, if you were around during the leonard/duran/hearns/hagler time, many were of the opinion that leonard was an *******.
i had my beefs with his pbf like smartassing. and thought he went over the line on many occasions in his bad mouthing,womanizing and drugging.
i never won a bet against him!

but he got thru it and i consider him a gentleman and an asset to boxing now
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Boogie Nights
08-19-2008, 09:59 PM
thanks, sounds like a good read

i always got a kick out of how marvin said 'he wanted bigger ring, less rounds, this and that, i said how about we fight in your living room' :lol1::lol1:

classic marvin

SorceryatCaesar
08-23-2008, 08:41 PM
sounds like a good book.

graham houston knows his stuff.

mcentepede
09-03-2008, 12:46 AM
Whatever, Marvin Hagler was robbed in that fight. Leonard fought good, but never really hurt Hagler or backed him up. If that what it takes to beat Marvin Hagler, then Hagler is more indestructible than we thought. An all-time great. A Throwback. A Legend.

wpink1
09-03-2008, 07:15 AM
[QUOTE=mcentepede;4018944]Whatever, Marvin Hagler was robbed in that fight. Leonard fought good, but never really hurt Hagler or backed him up. If that what it takes to beat Marvin Hagler, then Hagler is more indestructible than we thought. An all-time great. A Throwback. A Legend.[/QUOTE


Mcenteped. If yoiu learn how to judge a fight, it goes on a 10 pt must. In order to win a fight alll you have to do is win 7 rounds (or more rounds) than your opponent in a 12 round fight. You necessarily have to hurt your opponent, all though that helps.

When did Hagler ever hurt ray, besides a brief upper cut in round 5? I agree that it was a close decision. IMO ray won 7-5. I will tell you this, LIve every newscaster, all the fans, the sportswriters, referee, all had Ray winning. The only people who thought hagler won was his camp. The crowd was electric and there was no boos, or robbery chants, or media movment saying Leonard robbed hagler, like there was when Leoanrd clearly robbed hearns in the 2nd fight.

It is the quest for somethign to write about and controversy that really sparked this. Yes it was close, but noone can say that Leonard with out a doubt did not outpoint hagler, and did nt deserve to win. If you saw it differntly that is ok, but I just need to remind you that Live everyone everywhere thought Leonard won.

SorceryatCaesar
09-03-2008, 02:53 PM
in the book:

a survey of ringside press immediately after the fight - 12 favored hagler, 10 leonard, and 3 scored it a draw.

SorceryatCaesar
09-11-2008, 07:52 PM
boston globe review - two thumbs up:

http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2008/08/12/leonard_hagler_story_packs_a_wallop/

Bhopreign
09-13-2008, 05:17 PM
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

C.Y.
09-14-2008, 06:46 AM
[QUOTE=mcentepede;4018944]Whatever, Marvin Hagler was robbed in that fight. Leonard fought good, but never really hurt Hagler or backed him up. If that what it takes to beat Marvin Hagler, then Hagler is more indestructible than we thought. An all-time great. A Throwback. A Legend.[/QUOTE


Mcenteped. If yoiu learn how to judge a fight, it goes on a 10 pt must. In order to win a fight alll you have to do is win 7 rounds (or more rounds) than your opponent in a 12 round fight. You necessarily have to hurt your opponent, all though that helps.

When did Hagler ever hurt ray, besides a brief upper cut in round 5? I agree that it was a close decision. IMO ray won 7-5. I will tell you this, LIve every newscaster, all the fans, the sportswriters, referee, all had Ray winning. The only people who thought hagler won was his camp. The crowd was electric and there was no boos, or robbery chants, or media movment saying Leonard robbed hagler, like there was when Leoanrd clearly robbed hearns in the 2nd fight.

It is the quest for somethign to write about and controversy that really sparked this. Yes it was close, but noone can say that Leonard with out a doubt did not outpoint hagler, and did nt deserve to win. If you saw it differntly that is ok, but I just need to remind you that Live everyone everywhere thought Leonard won.

everyone didnt have leonard winning.. **** leonard's own wife thought he lost the fight..

kayjay
09-14-2008, 07:38 AM
in the book:

a survey of ringside press immediately after the fight - 12 favored hagler, 10 leonard, and 3 scored it a draw.

:owned::owned:

wpink1
09-14-2008, 11:24 AM
[QUOTE=wpink1;4019612]

everyone didnt have leonard winning.. **** leonard's own wife thought he lost the fight..

If you where there at the time, Most thought Leonard won at the time. The hoopla of controversy surrounding the fight, did not start until Hagler whinned about some weak attempt...."leonard told me himself I won", That is a joke... You did not have newspapers, or magazines etc.. proclaiming Hagler was robbed, like you did when whitacker was robbed vs Chavez, or even hearns was robbed vs Leonard in the 2nd fight.

I do not mean every single person in the world saw this fight and had Hagler winning, my point is that from the 1 minutes rest period between rounds 11 and twelve through out the final round and during and after the decision the arena the annoncers the referee himself,,,etc.. a major major majority of them where thinking ray won. Not one person that night mentioned they thought Hagler won or where upset with the decision.

The hoopla started after when a week later on HBO sports when larry merchant aired the SRL interview and it was then mentioned mainstreem that Hagler said Leonard told him he beat him. Then all the madness since has started.

The referee Richard Steele summed it up. He said that night I thought leonard won handily, but it gets closer and closer everytime i see the fight.

JAB5239
09-15-2008, 02:43 AM
[QUOTE=C.Y.;4065577]

If you where there at the time, Most thought Leonard won at the time. The hoopla of controversy surrounding the fight, did not start until Hagler whinned about some weak attempt...."leonard told me himself I won", That is a joke... You did not have newspapers, or magazines etc.. proclaiming Hagler was robbed, like you did when whitacker was robbed vs Chavez, or even hearns was robbed vs Leonard in the 2nd fight.

I do not mean every single person in the world saw this fight and had Hagler winning, my point is that from the 1 minutes rest period between rounds 11 and twelve through out the final round and during and after the decision the arena the annoncers the referee himself,,,etc.. a major major majority of them where thinking ray won. Not one person that night mentioned they thought Hagler won or where upset with the decision.

The hoopla started after when a week later on HBO sports when larry merchant aired the SRL interview and it was then mentioned mainstreem that Hagler said Leonard told him he beat him. Then all the madness since has started.

The referee Richard Steele summed it up. He said that night I thought leonard won handily, but it gets closer and closer everytime i see the fight.

I have never scored the fight. But as a fan, at the time, I had Hagler winning. Had him winning the next time I watched it too. But the more I watch it now, the more I lean towards Leonard in that fight. Funny how perceptions change over time.

wpink1
09-15-2008, 09:34 AM
This is a arguement that has and will continue on forever. However, I ask you all this, as this is what I have done for those I argue with in person. I bring people over we turn on the action, and off the volume and get a pen and paper and score it.

I have never had one single person score it for hagler when they do it that way. Not one, I have had some have it a draw. These are die hard hagler fans as well. Most people simply do not score the fight on a 10 pt systmen, and thus are impacted more by loud later rounds than the borring early rounds. Got to keep in mind unless there is a 10-8 round the boring first round counts as much as that great 9th round they had.

Leoanrd clearly won the 1st 4 rounds. If anyone has that scored differntly then they simply were not going to score anything for Ray. After that all he had to do was win 3 of the lat 8 rounds, and I had it scored 7-5, almost every time I have scored it, and funny enough when those same guys saying hagler won, come over and we look at it and tally up there votes, 7-5 based on EFFECTIVE aggression, not simple aggression is the general score. Which is very close. However, most of the rounds where either clealry leonards or Haglers. I have heard the catcalls about leoanrd coming on at the end of rounds to still them, which is true....However, the big question that those who try to argue this point leave out is? What did hagler do in the 1st 2 minutes to win the round? Nothing is generally the answer.

Kid McCoy
09-16-2008, 04:15 PM
I remember watching the fight live, and I felt Hagler won. I was down my local boxing club the next day, and everyone there thought Hagler was robbed. I've watched it since then and my view hasn't changed. It was close for sure, but Hagler got it imo. I had him winning 6-5-1.