Who had the stronger left hook at welter weight?

Who had the stronger left hook at welter weight?

Hard to say, I would lean toward Oscar as far as the left hook is concerned, but I would pick Sugar Ray to win in a match up.

ray robinson.

Hard to say, I would lean toward Oscar as far as the left hook is concerned, but I would pick Sugar Ray to win in a match up.

I agree.

On thier best nights at WW I think this one would be a tough fight to call IMO. Just for fun I put this together to show that they might've been closer in this matchup then some here may have thought.

I took two fights from each fighter's career. One to show their best boxing skills, and the other to show each fighter at the height of his power (thier respective left hooks).

The fights I chose were:
Ray Robinson vs.
Gene Fullmer- Power
http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/rdROjwy34qU/default.jpg

Carmen Basilio- Skills
http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/n_GPxz5D7vo/default.jpg


Oscar De La Hoya vs.
Oba Carr- Power
http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/eNPDCosVyzc/default.jpg

Trinidad- Skills
http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/MRZfdgcC9Jw/default.jpg

I like Ray's left hook. That hook that put Fullmer on the canvas in their second fight was a thing of beauty.

Robinson had the better left, it had more power behind and De La Hoya has never knocked anyone out with it going backward. As for this match up, i would favor Robinson in a very close fight, possibly split decision in his favor. He had problems with a consistant jab and effective pressere. If De La Hoya came in with the strategy he used to fight Mayweather, then it would really be tough for Robinson. Oscar jabbed consistantly, brung effective pressure and his defensive was sound as well. Robinson would put it on Oscar late becuase he fades and Robinson had excellent stamina. Thats where he would take control.

I agree.

On thier best nights at WW I think this one would be a tough fight to call IMO. Just for fun I put this together to show that they might've been closer in this matchup then some here may have thought.

I took two fights from each fighter's career. One to show their best boxing skills, and the other to show each fighter at the height of his power (thier respective left hooks).

The fights I chose were:
Ray Robinson vs.
Gene Fullmer- Power
http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/rdROjwy34qU/default.jpg

Carmen Basilio- Skills
http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/n_GPxz5D7vo/default.jpg


Oscar De La Hoya vs.
Oba Carr- Power
http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/eNPDCosVyzc/default.jpg

Trinidad- Skills
http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/MRZfdgcC9Jw/default.jpg


Tale Of The Tape-


Ray Robinson
Orthodox
Right Handed
Height 5'11
Weight 145
Arm lgth. 72 1/2
Age 28

Oscar De La Hoya
Orthodox
Left Handed
Height 5'10 1/2
Weigth 147
Arm lgth. 73
Age 26

I don't see any real advantages when it comes to overall size of the two fighters, except maybe weight where Sugar Ray Rob almost always came into a fight light to keep his speed. So Oscar would be alittle bigger physically in this fight. Now here's the really fun part. I came up with stats to represent the physical abilities of the two fighters coming into this fight:

Sugar Ray Robinson-

Power 9.0
speed 10
quickness 9.0
agility 9.5
stamina 9.5
footwork 9.5
defence 8.5
intelligence 10
jab 8.5
left hand 10
right hand 9.0
countering 9.5
combinations 10
hand speed 9.5
body 8.5
chin 9.5
endurence 9.5
punch acc. 9.5
cuts 8.5
heart 10

Oscar De La Hoya-

Power 9.5
speed 8.5
quickness 8.5
agility 8.0
stamina 8.5
footwork 9.0
defence 8.0
intelligence 8.5
jab 10
left hand 9.0
right hand 8.0
countering 8.5
combinations 9.0
hand speed 8.5
body 8.0
chin 8.5
endurence 7.5
punch acc. 8.5
cuts 8.0
heart 9.0


Here's my opinion on how all thier stats break down, try your own if you like them. oh, and to answer slicksouthpaw16, Oscar doesn't fight in the same style as Ray. If he did fight in the same style maybe he could knock someone out moving backward, but who knows?!

I like Ray's left hook. That hook that put Fullmer on the canvas in their second fight was a thing of beauty.

Yup, that's why I put the vid of that punch up there^. I think that was Sugar Ray Rob's best punch of his entire career. That left hook of his was always dangerous because he could trrow it off a jab, and he always seemed to double, and tripple it up, yet all three appreared to have the same amount of devestating speed and power. He was a tremendous puncher, though I still think that Oscar had more power then him at WW. Even though Ray was the much more accurate puncher, it was Oscar's great jab, and his left hooks that seemed to come from nowhere. So that put Oscar's power over the top for me. Overall I think Sugar Ray wins every match against Oscar. The Golden Boy wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace of the fight and would get TKO'd in the 14th round.

How did I do with my stats? I would like to know, thanks! BTW, the stats are according to all WW, from Sugar Ray's prime on up. I made them like the stats in Knockout Kings 2000 and 2001.

walker smith junior.period.dude was knocking out middleweights at welterweight.

Who had the stronger left hook at welter weight?

that shouldnt be a question...S.R.R.

Hard to say, I would lean toward Oscar as far as the left hook is concerned, but I would pick Sugar Ray to win in a match up.

i dont know y u say that when oscar's left hook wasnt even harder than Felix "Tito" Trinidad's left hook...

walker smith junior.period.dude was knocking out middleweights at welterweight.

LOL...who, LOL

i dont know y u say that when oscar's left hook wasnt even harder than Felix "Tito" Trinidad's left hook...

Perhaps you say that because you saw mostly highlights of all of them. Sugar Ray Robinson just simply has more highlights.

And ODH didn't throw his hardest left hook all the time. When he descided to crush someone with his left hook, yes, it was better than Titos and SRRs.

You most likely don't remember either one of them fighting at WW. Tito moved up from WW in '99 and Oscar in '02. Even if you do, how many fights of their's have you seen at WW?

that shouldnt be a question...S.R.R.

it's not the question. The subject of this thread was who's left hook was better. I know SRR is clearly better then Oscar at WW. I was just saying if
Randy Turpin and Carmin Basilio can give Ray Robinson (formerly Walker Smith) a good battle, so can Oscar sinse the topic was brought up.

Noone still didn't reply to their stats I put up. Damn, man, can I get some feedback? :boxing:

Perhaps you say that because you saw mostly highlights of all of them. Sugar Ray Robinson just simply has more highlights.

And ODH didn't throw his hardest left hook all the time. When he descided to crush someone with his left hook, yes, it was better than Titos and SRRs.

You most likely don't remember either one of them fighting at WW. Tito moved up from WW in '99 and Oscar in '02. Even if you do, how many fights of their's have you seen at WW?


really, so when do you know when he decided?come on dude.

LOL...who, LOL

a couple.not world beaters but still.

really, so when do you know when he decided?come on dude.

Some guys just tap you with their best punch to set you up for the shot. How you know is when you've seen them land that punch before, you know they can do better and they're probably waiting to counter.

Some guys just tap you with their best punch to set you up for the shot. How you know is when you've seen them land that punch before, you know they can do better and they're probably waiting to counter.


In other words, Oscar would hit his opponent lightly with his left hook, and then when he sees an opening its.. PLOOOOOOWWWW!!!

sugar had the better left and he would whoop oscars ass if they ever fought

Robinson would draw out a UD here. Oscar ALWAYS fades during the championship rounds it would be a close fight up to the 9th and Oscar's lack of stamina (even in his prime) would make sure Robinson edged De La Hoya out. Robinson's left hook is better as well :)

Being a Mexican sures make you popular now days huh? Every fight against a half way decent white or black fighter De La Hoya lost. From Whitaker to Felix Sturm to Mayweather. Infact who in the hell did he ever beat besides other hyped up mexican fighters?


No matter how much Ray Robinson is overrated in a historical sense he would never lose to some joke like De la Hoya. Robinson by ko in less than 5.

You guys that think oscar would have a chance are completely lost to boxing. Oscar beat who that was great in clear cut manner? Name em!!! He lost to Mosley, Trinidad, and Hopkins. No one of these fighters is 1/2 a SRR. He was given a gift decision vs Quarey, and Whitacker.

DLH is not even a top tier fighter. He has fought everyone, I will give him that, but to even think he compares to a SRR, who by the way started out at 128 also, and moved up and won the lightweight, welter and middle weight titles. Would have won the lightheavyweight title except he had to quit (in a fight he was winning on every card) in the last round, due to heat exhaustion, also the referee in that fight had to be replaced for heat issues as well. The temperature that he fought in was 100 degrees.

Among the fellow Hall-of-Famers Robinson beat are Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan, Carmen Basilio, Jake LaMotta, Rocky Graziano, Gene Fullmer and Fritzie Zivic.
Robinson turned pro in 1940 and won his first 40 fights before losing to LaMotta. Then he would not lose another fight for 8 years or hmmm 90 fights..Had a record of 128-1-2., up during his peak years. Lamatto he beat 5 out of 6 times, and he stopped the other fighters he drew with when the rematched.

To even think that DLH, who NEVER EVER beat a prime great fighter convincingly, unless you say vargas is one, is on the same page as a Robinson...WOW!!!

The original ? was who had the best left hook. I ask you this, what great fighter did dlh stop with his left? Hmmmmm.

Robinson UD in a compelling fight.

Poet

Easy victory for Robinson, over a fighters who many drastically overrate. I always always am amazed at how many fans confuse fighting top fighters with beating top fighters. Who convingcly did DLH beat, to qualify us to even have this conversation. He would get slaughterd by a prime Robinson. '

WhAt a joke of a dream match. Dlh got a gift vs Quartey, Whitacker, lost twice to Mosley, scared to engage with Trinidad so he ran after round 9, and you all think he would be able to deal with what Robinson had...Give me a break.

Easy victory for Robinson, over a fighters who many drastically overrate. I always always am amazed at how many fans confuse fighting top fighters with beating top fighters. Who convingcly did DLH beat, to qualify us to even have this conversation. He would get slaughterd by a prime Robinson. '

WhAt a joke of a dream match. Dlh got a gift vs Quartey, Whitacker, lost twice to Mosley, scared to engage with Trinidad so he ran after round 9, and you all think he would be able to deal with what Robinson had...Give me a break.

You guys that think oscar would have a chance are completely lost to boxing. Oscar beat who that was great in clear cut manner? Name em!!! He lost to Mosley, Trinidad, and Hopkins. No one of these fighters is 1/2 a SRR. He was given a gift decision vs Quarey, and Whitacker.

DLH is not even a top tier fighter. He has fought everyone, I will give him that, but to even think he compares to a SRR, who by the way started out at 128 also, and moved up and won the lightweight, welter and middle weight titles. Would have won the lightheavyweight title except he had to quit (in a fight he was winning on every card) in the last round, due to heat exhaustion, also the referee in that fight had to be replaced for heat issues as well. The temperature that he fought in was 100 degrees.

Among the fellow Hall-of-Famers Robinson beat are Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan, Carmen Basilio, Jake LaMotta, Rocky Graziano, Gene Fullmer and Fritzie Zivic.
Robinson turned pro in 1940 and won his first 40 fights before losing to LaMotta. Then he would not lose another fight for 8 years or hmmm 90 fights..Had a record of 128-1-2., up during his peak years. Lamatto he beat 5 out of 6 times, and he stopped the other fighters he drew with when the rematched.

To even think that DLH, who NEVER EVER beat a prime great fighter convincingly, unless you say vargas is one, is on the same page as a Robinson...WOW!!!

The original ? was who had the best left hook. I ask you this, what great fighter did dlh stop with his left? Hmmmmm.


Now we're talking about WW here, remember. All those guys you named were great, and in their primes when they fought robinson? What about Henry Armstrong? DLH wouldn't have a chance at beating him? Lamotta either? No chance for DLH? I'm just tryin to see your logic in why DLH (in his prime) wouldn't be a top tier fighter in robinson's time; maybe even the toughest fight Robinson has ever had at WW. The Quartey and Whitiker fights were very, very close and could've gone either way depending on the way you judge a fight.

As I look back on Robinson's stint at WW, I can't find anyone on Robinson's resume with the with the strength and pwer of a DLH or Trinidad. I just don't understand why this fight is such a joke when DLH and the guys he's fought at WW would be some of the best guys in the division at the time.

Maybe some guys here are just overestimating Robinson and underestimating DLH, like I said you would. Perhaps some of you guys should stop watching movies and highlights about a fighter to tell about their greatness and start watching thier fights!?

Now we're talking about WW here, remember. All those guys you named were great, and in their primes when they fought robinson? What about Henry Armstrong? DLH wouldn't have a chance at beating him? Lamotta either? No chance for DLH? I'm just tryin to see your logic in why DLH (in his prime) wouldn't be a top tier fighter in robinson's time; maybe even the toughest fight Robinson has ever had at WW. The Quartey and Whitiker fights were very, very close and could've gone either way depending on the way you judge a fight.

As I look back on Robinson's stint at WW, I can't find anyone on Robinson's resume with the with the strength and pwer of a DLH or Trinidad. I just don't understand why this fight is such a joke when DLH and the guys he's fought at WW would be some of the best guys in the division at the time.

Maybe some guys here are just overestimating Robinson and underestimating DLH, like I said you would. Perhaps some of you guys should stop watching movies and highlights about a fighter to tell about their greatness and start watching thier fights!?

Wow,,,,Dlh is simply not that good, plain and simple. Robinson beat top fighters who where strong at welter and middle. Dlh got stopped by a body punch by Hopkins and beat up by Sturm. Dlh had opportunity after opportunity to prove his greatness at welterweight

Whitacker.....very very very close could have went either way
Trinidad..... He was winning, but running and not allowing for a exchange, then he ran from round 9 on....If he is so strong, then why run.
Quartey.... Very very very close, could have went either way.
Chavez.....past his prime
Mosley.....Lost the 1st fight clearly, the 2nd fight close either way would be ok.
Vargas..... His best win if you ask me, and Vargas is not a top level fighter,
Hopkins...stopped by body punch
Mayweather.....just pounded his body and ran out of gas...


What has he done at Welterweight to lead anyone to believe that he would some how become this strong great warriror that he would need to be, to fight vs a prime SRR.

From like age 22 to 26 DLH was a great fighter. Not so much now at 35, at this age he's just fighting for money.

Wow,,,,Dlh is simply not that good, plain and simple. Robinson beat top fighters who where strong at welter and middle. Dlh got stopped by a body punch by Hopkins and beat up by Sturm. Dlh had opportunity after opportunity to prove his greatness at welterweight

Whitacker.....very very very close could have went either way
Trinidad..... He was winning, but running and not allowing for a exchange, then he ran from round 9 on....If he is so strong, then why run.
Quartey.... Very very very close, could have went either way.
Chavez.....past his prime
Mosley.....Lost the 1st fight clearly, the 2nd fight close either way would be ok.
Vargas..... His best win if you ask me, and Vargas is not a top level fighter,
Hopkins...stopped by body punch
Mayweather.....just pounded his body and ran out of gas...


What has he done at Welterweight to lead anyone to believe that he would some how become this strong great warriror that he would need to be, to fight vs a prime SRR.

In truth though he was robbed against Trinidad. If the judges had scored the first six rounds accurately it shouldn't have mattered what De La Hoya from round 9 on. As for the Hopkins and Mayweather fights, let's face it: Oscar was clearly past it for them plus had moved too far up in weight facing Hopkins.

Poet

I concur. The DLH vs. Trinidad fight should've been in the bag for Oscar.