Who would win if; Ali was in the condition he fought the Thrilla

in Manilla, and Tyson was in his prime.(Winning title after

beating Berbick)? I would personally pick Muhammad Ali for the

following reasons:

1) Ali's superior boxing skills, most notably his jabbing style

and accurancy

2) Ali's endurance and ability to take a punch. Lets face it

Ali could take a punch better than anyone else in boxing history.

Ali won alot of his later fights in 15 round decisions.

3) His pride and desire to win by outlasting and outfighting

his oppenents no matter what it took.

What do you fellow boxing enthuists think?

Boston guy, you are new here and therefore may not know, but we already have an Ali vs Tyson thread. There is no reason to duplicate a thread that already exists.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163

here you go.

i know a girl named Kim. I just need to spank her once.

How do I find the ali-tyson thread. i cant seem to locate it.

Ali by UD. Without questions. :)

If ur talking about the PRIME Ali verse a PRIME Tyson. Then there is no question Ali takes a comfortable UD. But, the ALi of Thrilla in Manilla was not prime, and a prime Tyson would take him out in about the 5th round, with the referee intervening to stop the fight.

Ali wins..........

dodge you said in my post that tyson would win, why the sudden change of thought? maybe because you realise ali would destroy tyson in ways hes never seen???

I think Ali woud win it he is smart and can take some serious punches

If ur talking about the PRIME Ali verse a PRIME Tyson. Then there is no question Ali takes a comfortable UD. But, the ALi of Thrilla in Manilla was not prime, and a prime Tyson would take him out in about the 5th round, with the referee intervening to stop the fight.

Even though Ali had shortly passed he prime, Ali was in good

shape and maintained most of his boxing skills. On that night,

the thrilla in manilla, no fighter in the world could have beat

him because of his courage,strength, and heart. Although I'm a

huge tyson fan, mike tyson has never shown he can take a

substanstial amount of punches and still be effective.(one

exception: when he fought m.green) Ali wins this one due to sheer will, endurance, and championship experience. :mad:

dodge you said in my post that tyson would win, why the sudden change of thought? maybe because you realise ali would destroy tyson in ways hes never seen???


gogan, that avatar is the best and most famous picture in all of boxing. I love that picture!! As far as Ali v Tyson goes, Ali easily...too much heart and pride.

Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson would have to be on of the at least top 3 fantasy fights of all time. Ali after the thrilla and prime tyson, i would have to go with tyson.

Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson would have to be on of the at least top 3 fantasy fights of all time. Ali after the thrilla and prime tyson, i would have to go with tyson.

OK. AT least make an argument to why tyson would win! :mad:

OK. AT least make an argument to why tyson would win! :mad:

He did make an arguement, as he said Tyson could beat Ali after he had gone life and death with Frazier in the 'Thrilla'.

Of course we all know that fight took everything out of what was left of Ali, and even going into it he was already eight or nine years past his peak.

Tyson would beat that very depleted version of Ali and would do so rather easily. But he'd never beat the best version of 'The Greatest'(from the mid/late 60's), who had all the tools that were proven neccessary to give a prime Tyson LOADS of trouble.

dodge you said in my post that tyson would win, why the sudden change of thought? maybe because you realise ali would destroy tyson in ways hes never seen???
I'm going to say that Mike would beat ali 1 out of three with a punchers chance. (A pre 1990 Tyson)

Even though Ali had shortly passed he prime, Ali was in good

shape and maintained most of his boxing skills. On that night,

the thrilla in manilla, no fighter in the world could have beat

him because of his courage,strength, and heart. Although I'm a

huge tyson fan, mike tyson has never shown he can take a

substanstial amount of punches and still be effective.(one

exception: when he fought m.green) Ali wins this one due to sheer will, endurance, and championship experience. :mad:
Very well put. Ali still had the wits and the ability to frustrate a prime Tyson at that stage of his career... and it was only a year before that he rope-a-doped an unbeatable George Foreman. I think he would have been able to handle Tyson.

if ali could beat foreman and sonny liston he would walk through tyson. tyson has no skill, and i dont mean like maybe, i mean thee boys got no skill. he figures he will just rock the shit out of all his opponents, foreman thought the same way and he didn't turn out so well. so i believe tyson is a walk in the park for prime ali.

ali by dec. if you ask me

No doubt. Ali by UD.

Muhammad Ali by UD

The Greatest vs The Baddest? The greatest win minus the ear...

The Greatest vs The Baddest? The greatest win minus the ear...

lol! same here...ali wins...sheer agression is no match to ali's skills and intelligence in the ring.

ali by dec. if you ask me
as you can see i already said it and ill say it again ali baybuh!!!

ali kills tyson

or tyson looses because of Disqualification due to ali pissing him off too much

either way ali wins

Yo....quit spamming.

Michael Spinks would have been the next ali. He had a great jab and fought like Ali. I know Ali was better, but Spinks was the closest thing that Tyson faced. And look what happened, Tyson wins by KO, 91 seconds first round.

Michael Spinks would have been the next ali. He had a great jab and fought like Ali. I know Ali was better, but Spinks was the closest thing that Tyson faced. And look what happened, Tyson wins by KO, 91 seconds first round.

yeah except spinks was a light heavyweight and ali had one of the greatest chin in hw history...

Ali would have no problem beating Tyson. He would rip "Iron Mike" to pieces within ten rounds.

Iron Mike in his prime would rip Ali apart.

Its tyson for me. Ali in his prime (pre layoff, post liston)was quick and tricky but had no real power to his punches.

tyson by k.o

Its tyson for me. Ali in his prime (pre layoff, post liston)was quick and tricky but had no real power to his punches.

tyson by k.o
I'm not gonna challenge what you said but im gonna just call you a word ''hater''

I just saw thrilla in manilla on espn classics the other night. Frasier fought an awful lot like Tyson, but he was a late starter. I will say in my opinion if the fight lasted more than 4 rounds Ali wins. I would put money on a Tyson KO however. Ali is the kind of fighter that gives the Tyson kind of fighter all he can deal with. Still goin with Tyson by KO

I just saw thrilla in manilla on espn classics the other night. Frasier fought an awful lot like Tyson, but he was a late starter. I will say in my opinion if the fight lasted more than 4 rounds Ali wins. I would put money on a Tyson KO however. Ali is the kind of fighter that gives the Tyson kind of fighter all he can deal with. Still goin with Tyson by KO

Ali's prime was 8 years before the fight you saw, if you saw him fight in 65-67, you know he was a differnt fighter

Muhammad Ali would beat Mike Tyson at any given time in the years 1964-1976. Tyson had no heart and would chicken out early. Adding his poor stamina and Alis incredible speed, chin and boxing ability, it would get ugly for Tyson. He would NEVER beat Muhammad Ali!

I think tyson had to ability to ko ali
i think ali had the ability to ko tyson
i think tyson had the abilty to ko lewis

great fighters can beat any fighter out there on there day

its hard to say, pre buster d. loss im sure many would have picked tyson

in their primes, Tyson v Ali.........just salivating at the thought :)

I think tyson had to ability to ko ali
i think ali had the ability to ko tyson
i think tyson had the abilty to ko lewis

great fighters can beat any fighter out there on there day

its hard to say, pre buster d. loss im sure many would have picked tyson

in their primes, Tyson v Ali.........just salivating at the thought :)
I here ya man!

Tyson would get killed by Ali. Look at what Buster Douglas did to Tyson (Prime or not) He weathered some good shots and took it to Tyson. Now, imagine Tyson hitting Ali whos chin was a thousand times better than Douglas, no problem. After that Ali would use his speed, footwork, and reflexes to cut Tyson up. I.E Alis power was also underated as Liston once said" that wasn't the guy i was supposed to fight. That guy could hit." Also Ali fought big punchers in his career Foreman, and Sharvers couuld not drop Ali i doubt tyson would Knock him out.

Tyson would get killed by Ali. Look at what Buster Douglas did to Tyson (Prime or not) He weathered some good shots and took it to Tyson. Now, imagine Tyson hitting Ali whos chin was a thousand times better than Douglas, no problem. After that Ali would use his speed, footwork, and reflexes to cut Tyson up. I.E Alis power was also underated as Liston once said" that wasn't the guy i was supposed to fight. That guy could hit." Also Ali fought big punchers in his career Foreman, and Sharvers couuld not drop Ali i doubt tyson would Knock him out.

i dont know about getting killed, but as i said... either had the potential in their primes. To suggest the douglas fight was an example of tyson in his prime some may disagree. he apparently only trained 3 weeks for that fight...the long count...the late tyson ko....tyson lack of head movement...etc thats what they say. I certainly think ali was one of the smartest and most adaptable fighters out there, nevertheless i think tyson and ali's chins were on the same level. We can never really say who would win but i dont think either would dominate!!!!!!. I like both fighters im just trying to look at it from their prime states, tyson's prime was pretty short about a year or two imo.

Everybody keeps mentioning about Tyson's prime years, but I don't think we ever got to see it. Anyway here's my 2 cents on this fantasy matchup. Just basing it on athleticism alone I think it's about even. Overall I'd give it to Ali, I mean if a young Tyson was having fits w/ a late 30's or early 40's Larry Holmes what more w/ the G.O.A.T.

Who would win if they fought today?

Who would win if they fought today?
ali for sure... ali can match mike's speed and power, yet he is much bigger than mike is...

tyson would have won by KO
there is no way ali could
withstand tysons early round
punishment. you saw what tyson
did to larry holmes. he would have
did that to ali too.

tyson would have won by KO
there is no way ali could
withstand tysons early round
punishment. you saw what tyson
did to larry holmes. he would have
did that to ali too.


dude tyson would have put up a VERY good match for ali , but would have gotten flustured in the late rounds, tysons early round punishment? that would be somthing for ali but think about if ali took foremans shots when he was in his PRIME and foreman was a good 250lbs or sumtin like dat , and you think tyson hits harder than foreman? prime tyson 215lbs 5'11....and ali didnt even get knocked down from foreman.....listen i know we are all adults here and ill let you do the math...








keep it real brotha :cool:

pity, but Ali wins..........

Ali by a brutal knockout. please...Tyson got worked by buster douglas who fought a little smarter than everyone else did....considering how smart Ali was, you cant imagine what he would do to tyson. Tyson won his fights because he would intimidate his opponent greatly and he packed a punch as well, but so did liston who was badder than tyson and could knock ppl out with a jab...and look how Ali exposed him...Ali in his prime is unbeatable..

Ali by a brutal knockout. please...Tyson got worked by buster douglas who fought a little smarter than everyone else did....considering how smart Ali was, you cant imagine what he would do to tyson. Tyson won his fights because he would intimidate his opponent greatly and he packed a punch as well, but so did liston who was badder than tyson and could knock ppl out with a jab...and look how Ali exposed him...Ali in his prime is unbeatable..
put perfectly lol

Ali is definetely not unbeatable, but yeah, he would knock Tyson cold!

Tyson would get killed by Ali. Look at what Buster Douglas did to Tyson (Prime or not) He weathered some good shots and took it to Tyson. Now, imagine Tyson hitting Ali whos chin was a thousand times better than Douglas, no problem. After that Ali would use his speed, footwork, and reflexes to cut Tyson up. I.E Alis power was also underated as Liston once said" that wasn't the guy i was supposed to fight. That guy could hit." Also Ali fought big punchers in his career Foreman, and Sharvers couuld not drop Ali i doubt tyson would Knock him out.

Mike Tyson lost to James Douglas after he left Kevin Rooney and his Cus D'amato fighting style. In the Douglas fight Tyson lost all head movement, and didn't throw combinations. He just tried to end it with one big punch. That was not even close to a PRIME Tyson. The 88 version, the one who destroyed Spinks, Biggs, Holmes, would be all kinds of trouble in the early rounds for Ali. Tyson was a much sharper puncher than Foreman or Shavers, Holmes said that himself. He also said he was very hard to hit. Tyson by KO within 4 rounds!!!

Mike wins by brutal knockout
in round 4.

This one is a no brainer. Tyson only has a chance in the minds of his most diehard fans. Seeing that Ali was never dropped for a full count and fought several guys who hit as hard or harder than Tyson (Foreman, Shavers, Lyle) I don't even think Tyson even has much of a puncher's chance. With his mentality and lack of size size, there's no way he outsmarts or outboxes Ali. This fight would actually be kind of dissapointing. Not very competitive after round four or five.

Jack Dempsey (the guy Tysons wishes he could have been) would have given Ali a much better fight. Taller, mentally tougher, and a much better inside fighter than Tyson.

Tyson has very little chance. Ali was just to smart he would dance around and use his long jab for the first few rounds. Then mike would be tired its all over. ALi also had the best chin. He might get knocked down but he would get up. Norton broke his jaw he kept fighting, Frasier hit him with a punch that would send most people into a coma he popped right back up. Foreman had no luck, Shavers none either. Ali by mid round Ko. ;)

I say what every true fan of boxing knows: When it comes down to it, Tyson doesn't have the heart, stamina, mental discipline or chin to withstand a 12 or 15 round beating. So, he would get KO'd in the 8th or 9th round. And yes, I mean prime Tyson.

Mike wins by brutal knockout
in round 4.

Muhammad Ali 1960 - 1981 56-5-0 - Iron Mike Tyson 1985 - 2005 50-6-0 :boxing:

- At age 20 Tyson became the youngest World Heavyweight champion

- Iron KO :boxing: Ali

Ali would have made Tyson look like a 12 year old fighting a 25 year old man. He doesn't have the speed, defense, chin, ring management, stamina and heart to even compete with Ali.

Ali has been hit by the hardest hitters in boxing history, and took the punches better than anyone else. Tyson's power isn't close to Frazier's or Foreman's, and once Ali figured that out, he would have toyed with Mike into the 9th round and would've knocked him out. It would be the worst beating Tyson could every imagine.

Pure and simple.

In Theyre Primes I Would have to go with Tyson

Reason: Tysons AGRESSION! & Strength

So basically you're saying George Foreman, eh? =)

......I remember seeing a fight between Ali and Foreman......

Ali couldn't dodge all of Tysons shots, and once Tyson give hits you, we won't stop until they're on the floor.

Ali couldn't dodge all of Tysons shots, and once Tyson give hits you, we won't stop until they're on the floor.

thing is, tyson caught holyfield, alot, and did nothing.
yeah, he was a little passed his prime when they fought but still,
i remember watching the fight and just being shocked as to how
little effect tyson's shots had on holyfield.
my point:
holyfield was great, but he's no ali.
so, i'd have to say ali smokes tyson. no contest.
besides, ali outsmarted foreman who was a bigger puncher
than tyson, even if by some chance ali couldn't take tyson's shots,
he'd fight a way to outsmart him.

Come on people, let's get real here. Ali would have torn Tyson to shreds. Tyson wasn't anything but a thug with a quick powerful punch.

Compare Tyson's victories to Ali's victories. Ali has beaten a number of boxing legends, while the only person Tyson beat worth mentioning is Larry Holmes (don't forget to mention nearly 10 years after his prime).

Ali was simply to quick for Tyson. He would constantly blind Tyson with jabs and then KO him with a mean combo around the 7 or 8.

But 1 thing you aint thought. Who did ali struggle with. Joe Frazier. Frazier was a similar fighter to Tyson, always ducking and weaving looking to get inside. However watching Frazier he was slow and never seemed to dodge punches as they came, he always pre meditaded attacks. Ali was to fast. However Tyson had method, he studied the sport in depth. He moved with speed, could get inside opponents quickly, he was preppared to take a few on the way in and would keep coming. With his concussive power and speed he would have given Ali the greatest challenge of his life. However Ali was to damn fast on his feat, had amazing hand speed, and could take a punch. If Ali was on top form as he was against Cleveland Williams he could have taken anyone.

Holifield should have tested for steroids. 4 years from now he will admit to it.

Ali and Tyson are the faces of boxing around the world. To say Ali would beat Tyson or Tyson would beat Ali are bothcorrect statements in thier prime the both had a style and flair unparralelled to any other boxer. They could beat you before you got in the ring.As far as head to head is concerned. Ali's jab and Tysons head movement are the key when Tyson was racking up wins in 86' He fought a bunch of fighters that had similar styles to Ali. you know sick and move so tyson knew how to handle jabs.

I think that in an actual fight the outcome of a prime Tyson Prime Ali would be a cross between the Douglas fight and Frazier1.
Ali dancing and racking up points and Tyson working his way inside the jab.Tyson like frazier had the power to knock ali down and ali had the skillz to do what douglas did to Tyson.

I think that Ali would get a split descision if he stayed on his feet. But as soon as he goes down its over.
p.s the rope a dope doesnt work on tyson too fast punches too hard. :boxing:

ali would ko mike in 5, end of discussion.

Ali and Tyson are the faces of boxing around the world. To say Ali would beat Tyson or Tyson would beat Ali are bothcorrect statements in thier prime the both had a style and flair unparralelled to any other boxer. They could beat you before you got in the ring.As far as head to head is concerned. Ali's jab and Tysons head movement are the key when Tyson was racking up wins in 86' He fought a bunch of fighters that had similar styles to Ali. you know sick and move so tyson knew how to handle jabs.

I think that in an actual fight the outcome of a prime Tyson Prime Ali would be a cross between the Douglas fight and Frazier1.
Ali dancing and racking up points and Tyson working his way inside the jab.Tyson like frazier had the power to knock ali down and ali had the skillz to do what douglas did to Tyson.

I think that Ali would get a split descision if he stayed on his feet. But as soon as he goes down its over.
p.s the rope a dope doesnt work on tyson too fast punches too hard. :boxing:
i agree with you.

Ali and Tyson are the faces of boxing around the world. To say Ali would beat Tyson or Tyson would beat Ali are bothcorrect statements in thier prime the both had a style and flair unparralelled to any other boxer. They could beat you before you got in the ring.As far as head to head is concerned. Ali's jab and Tysons head movement are the key when Tyson was racking up wins in 86' He fought a bunch of fighters that had similar styles to Ali. you know sick and move so tyson knew how to handle jabs.

I think that in an actual fight the outcome of a prime Tyson Prime Ali would be a cross between the Douglas fight and Frazier1.
Ali dancing and racking up points and Tyson working his way inside the jab.Tyson like frazier had the power to knock ali down and ali had the skillz to do what douglas did to Tyson.

I think that Ali would get a split descision if he stayed on his feet. But as soon as he goes down its over.
p.s the rope a dope doesnt work on tyson too fast punches too hard. :boxing:

Yea, but Ali is much, much more skilled than Buster Douglas, and hits harder, too.

ali would give tyson a boxing lesson

this is crude and blunt... BUT ALI WAS TOO SMART, Look at the results of buster douglas Sticking with the jab and moving, imagine Ali executing something like that. Muhammad Ali would mentally defeat tyson, tyson had all the skill in the world but not the mental capacity to take on Muhammad Ali.

But 1 thing you aint thought. Who did ali struggle with. Joe Frazier. Frazier was a similar fighter to Tyson, always ducking and weaving looking to get inside. However watching Frazier he was slow and never seemed to dodge punches as they came, he always pre meditaded attacks. Ali was to fast. However Tyson had method, he studied the sport in depth. He moved with speed, could get inside opponents quickly, he was preppared to take a few on the way in and would keep coming. With his concussive power and speed he would have given Ali the greatest challenge of his life. However Ali was to damn fast on his feat, had amazing hand speed, and could take a punch. If Ali was on top form as he was against Cleveland Williams he could have taken anyone.

Whats the difference, frazier was TOUGH, i see TOUGHNESS as mental not physical... Ali was very resourceful... he'd adapt and neutralise tyson who would become frustrated... Frazier would continue banging away, better stamina and i believe generally a better fighter.

tyson would be ali's punching bag for 5 rounds.

heel no tyson could beat him by a ko

heel no tyson could beat him by a ko

in your mind tyson could beat anybody.

heel no tyson could beat him by a ko

WAIT! are you joking…tyson could have beat ali…do my eyes decive me…¿

WAIT! are you joking…tyson could have beat ali…do my eyes decive me…¿

well, you can expect that from baddest man on the planet, mystyal2k5, and mike tyson jr.!

ali would have no trouble stickin and movin around tyson

he beat frazier in the second fight and frazier pressed harder

ali would have no trouble stickin and movin around tyson

he beat frazier in the second fight and frazier pressed harder

ali would not just stick and move, he would ko iron mike!

ali would not just stick and move, he would ko iron mike!
while stickin and movin

while stickin and movin

well, whatever.

It's an insult to even consider Ali and Tyson in the same class of elite boxers. Ali dances around and is just too fast for Tyson.

Ali crushes him. KO in 6th.

Whats the difference, frazier was TOUGH, i see TOUGHNESS as mental not physical... Ali was very resourceful... he'd adapt and neutralise tyson who would become frustrated... Frazier would continue banging away, better stamina and i believe generally a better fighter.
Tyson is mentaly tough he was taking a beating from Douglas and had enough heart to ko him.

Besides against holifield he learned his lesson and refused defeat and really took a piece of Evander. Mental toughness =winning at all cost.

Tyson was a bully nothing else..when someone finally stood up to him and could take his shots he had nothing in return.

if he was so tough then why he lose?

Come on, the first fighter to beat Tyson was Buster Douglas. And how did Buster fight Tyson? With the exact same style as Ali!! The only thing is, Ali had everything better than Buster. EVERYTHING. More heart, more stamina, better chin, better puncher, faster on his feet, faster hands, etc. If an Ali-like style that is 2nd rate can KO Tyson, then I wonder what that same style from the man who did it best would do.

Come on, the first fighter to beat Tyson was Buster Douglas. And how did Buster fight Tyson? With the exact same style as Ali!! The only thing is, Ali had everything better than Buster. EVERYTHING. More heart, more stamina, better chin, better puncher, faster on his feet, faster hands, etc. If an Ali-like style that is 2nd rate can KO Tyson, then I wonder what that same style from the man who did it best would do.
nuhuh tillis was the first one to beat tyson but he got robbed

and he fought just like ali

Well, the same scenario either way. Though I don't know much about Tillis. Was he better or worse than Buster?

more skilled with dancing faster hands bout floyd patterson speed, less power though

Tillis won? He showed up to fight and took Tyson the distance but thats all he did other than get Knd.

The Tyson that fought tillis would have crushed Douglas inside of 7 rounds.

When Tyson was at his best the Ali style was useless.

Ali was faster than tyson i no tht but was he more powerfull than tyson?

Ali was faster than tyson i no tht but was he more powerfull than tyson?
if youve ever seen a young ali fight and a young tyson fight you would know that answer

Tyson was a bully nothing else..when someone finally stood up to him and could take his shots he had nothing in return.
TYSON WAS SPENT WHO ELSE HAS CLEANED OUT THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS.

TYSON WAS SPENT WHO ELSE HAS CLEANED OUT THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS.

arguably the weakest era in hw boxing was 85-90. the champs were berbick, spinks a lhw, and bonecrusher smith. ali cleaned out the division in about 5 years, and would have done it quicker if liston wasn't ducking him for more than a year, and that was arguably the 2nd strongest era in the 60s.

arguably the weakest era in hw boxing was 85-90. the champs were berbick, spinks a lhw, and bonecrusher smith. ali cleaned out the division in about 5 years, and would have done it quicker if liston wasn't ducking him for more than a year, and that was arguably the 2nd strongest era in the 60s.
First of all Ali wasnt ready nor did he deserve a title shot.
2nd of all The weakest era is the one we are currently in no Tyson
no Lewis or holifield.

During Alis exile boxing flourished still because of Frazier and after his retitrement it still was doing well just on a steady decline.

Besides Tyson could be Ali's age and still draw a bigger crowd than the current hvy. wgt. champS.

if he wasnt ready why did he beat liston

People didn't think he was ready; he was the underdog going into the fight. But he was obviously ready.

Ali was faster than tyson i no tht but was he more powerfull than tyson?

no, tyson had more power

no, tyson had more power

Yup. Mike Tyson definitely had more power. Muhammad Ali was stronger though.

Yup. Mike Tyson definitely had more power. Muhammad Ali was stronger though.


hmmmmk you sure about that.

they where both pretty close in weight and ali had like 4 inches on tyson so logically the more compact tyson is the strongest, but who knows?

hmmmmk you sure about that.

they where both pretty close in weight and ali had like 4 inches on tyson so logically the more compact tyson is the strongest, but who knows?

I'm pretty sure.

Muhammad Ali never got pushed around by anyone. He was really strong, and was also known for this. The only time I ever saw Ali in the ring with someone stronger, was against George Foreman.

Mike Tyson had explosive punching power, but was never really that strong. Watch the first Holyfield fight for instance. The lighter Holyfield pushed Tyson around with relative ease.

Tyson had poor strength in the clinches. Not only Holyfield but Bonecrusher Smith, Jesse Fergusan, even Peter McNeely (to name a few) were stronger in the clinches. Nearly every Tyson fan turns a blind eye to this fact.

Ali is the stronger man in this fight capable of pushing and holding Tyson, but punching power? It isn't even close. Tyson hits much harder.

if he wasnt ready why did he beat liston
At the time when he was calling out liston.

First of all Ali wasnt ready nor did he deserve a title shot.

What? :confused:

Wouldn't you consider a Heavyweight who previous beaten at least five (possibly six if you include George Logan) Heavyweights included in the top ten, to be worthy or deserving of a title shot at the champion?

Now whether you heard of them or not...or whether you have a high opinion of them or not, the facts of the matter are that Ring Magazine included Alejandro Lavorante, Billy Daniels, Archie Moore, Henry Cooper, and Doug Jones, amongst the top ten at the time they entered the ring and susequently lost against Ali. In Fact, when Ali and Jones squared off in MSG, that fight pitted the two of the top three leading contnders against each other (the other being Patterson), in a fight to determine the #1 contender and the next to face Liston for the title...an elimination match, if you will.

You can't sit there and say Ali wasn't deserving when the facts show that he was without question the most deserving challenger to Liston's title at that time...Ali's #1 contender status proves that!

Yea, Ali was definetly known for pushing around much larger opponents, while Tyson was known to get pushed and thrown around the ring easily.

First of all Ali wasnt ready nor did he deserve a title shot.
2nd of all The weakest era is the one we are currently in no Tyson
no Lewis or holifield.

During Alis exile boxing flourished still because of Frazier and after his retitrement it still was doing well just on a steady decline.

Besides Tyson could be Ali's age and still draw a bigger crowd than the current hvy. wgt. champS.

you don't really know that, all i know is that ali went after liston since 1962 and didn't get it till '64. so what does that say?

Ali by late round stoppage, maybe the same scene as Frazier not coming out for the final round, Tyson not able to finish. I don't think Tyson would have pressured Ali the way Frazier did, but would have hurt Ali more than Smokin' Joe did on that night. However like you stated, Ali's courage & heart would have prevailed over anyone that night. And don't forget the precision and accuracy he landed his punches in Manilla. Off-the-chart punch stats.

What? :confused:

Wouldn't you consider a Heavyweight who previous beaten at least five (possibly six if you include George Logan) Heavyweights included in the top ten, to be worthy or deserving of a title shot at the champion?

Now whether you heard of them or not...or whether you have a high opinion of them or not, the facts of the matter are that Ring Magazine included Alejandro Lavorante, Billy Daniels, Archie Moore, Henry Cooper, and Doug Jones, amongst the top ten at the time they entered the ring and susequently lost against Ali. In Fact, when Ali and Jones squared off in MSG, that fight pitted the two of the top three leading contnders against each other (the other being Patterson), in a fight to determine the #1 contender and the next to face Liston for the title...an elimination match, if you will.

You can't sit there and say Ali wasn't deserving when the facts show that he was without question the most deserving challenger to Liston's title at that time...Ali's #1 contender status proves that!
I was referring to his previous fights what I interpreted to be ludicrous. When he fought liston he did deserve it. I mean the way he called out liston at his house was awesome.

I was referring to his previous fights what I interpreted to be ludicrous. When he fought liston he did deserve it. I mean the way he called out liston at his house was awesome.

he deserved it. fighters don't have to be the #1 contender to get a title shot.

Come on, Ali would have destroyed Tyson before the fight had even started. If Ali can really get to Joe Frazier, a man who had a great mind and was very smart, with his words, than I imagine how cruely he would make fun of Tyson, who had no mental capacity whatsoever.

He would surely make fun of his voice (which would be one of the most hysterical things ever witnessed), poke at him for raping women, definetly make fun of his looks. Tyson would be so furious and mentally beaten before the fight than he wouldn't be able to think at all, and get his ass handed to him.

Come on, Ali would have destroyed Tyson before the fight had even started. If Ali can really get to Joe Frazier, a man who had a great mind and was very smart, with his words, than I imagine how cruely he would make fun of Tyson, who had no mental capacity whatsoever.

He would surely make fun of his voice (which would be one of the most hysterical things ever witnessed), poke at him for raping women, definetly make fun of his looks. Tyson would be so furious and mentally beaten before the fight than he wouldn't be able to think at all, and get his ass handed to him.

funny post.

this is a no brainer!! ali. it is obvious that tyson cannot rise to the occasion in a big fight. tyson does have more power but that is all. ali would fight the same way he did against foreman. just let him punch himself out buy slowly peck away with combos. by the sixth round he whoud open up and knock him out. i dont think tyson is a great fighter he is a great talent that was wasted. but very entertaining

tyson wasnt going to miss a target standing right in front of him

tyson wasnt going to miss a target standing right in front of him

No?

If that's the case, could you explain why Tyson missed so many friggin punches during the first couple of rounds of his fight with the immortal, Steve Zouski(*snicker*)?

And if you say that you were impressed with Tyson during that fight, even he would disagree with you as he illustrated with his words during the postfight interview;

"It was the worst performance of my career."

ali could dance or rope-a-dope either way tyson is ko'd in 5

There's no way Ali could rope-a-dope Tyson. Tyson hit too fast and accurate for that to work. Ali destroys him with the butterfly method though.