I was raised in the Christian and Lutheran religions throughout my childhood, yet the Roman Catholic church has always intrigued me. Are any of you Catholic/ Roman Catholic? I'm curious as to it's origins aswell as it's practices and laws.

its all about loving the penis. thats what a priest told me, after that i ran.

Um....cool avatar.....oh yeah......after watching the movie stigmata my view on religion was changed.....I agree with it's theory of God always being there for you, not just in a organized establishment(ie. Church, sinagog).

So you two aren't familiar at all with the differences and laws of the Roman Catholic church?

Who me......nope......I believe in God.....That is all.....Organized religion has caused nothing but trouble over the course of history.....My belief is that the reason for this trouble is the fact that it is run by man.....Through my own faith I believe in God.....That is all I need.....

My belief is that the reason for this trouble is the fact that it is run by man

Well if you want to get technical with it, it’s actually considered to be run by God and the men of the congregation are merely his servants in faith. I also believe like you however that a church of brick and stone is not needed in order to establish faith in God, it is within all of us individually; written on our hearts from the very time of birth. The church just gives you some place to go in order to meet others who might be able to help you walk along the path correctly, answer any questions you might have, and it also gives you time to specifically worship God.

However each branch has it’s one interpretation of the writings of the Bible, that’s where you have to be careful. Christianity and the Roman Catholics are the oldest and thus the most accurate in the original script interpretations. I just now called up St. James Church here in Torrance and was talking to a lady there, she wasn’t very familiar with Christianity and only limited herself to the knowledge of the Catholics. So she wasn’t much help. I’m still doing a lot of research because I want to learn as much as I can about this, mainly for writing purposes but nonetheless interesting.

Originally posted by Mouse
Well if you want to get technical with it, it’s actually considered to be run by God and the men of the congregation are merely his servants in faith. I also believe like you however that a church of brick and stone is not needed in order to establish faith in God, it is within all of us individually; written on our hearts from the very time of birth. The church just gives you some place to go in order to meet others who might be able to help you walk along the path correctly, answer any questions you might have, and it also gives you time to specifically worship God.

Good point.....nicely written......

Hubby is Roman Catholic and I was raised Lutheran. Has made for some interesting discussions.

This thread is deep. I'm mind blown.

without getting into the specifics, i would say that catholisim is way more structured and formalized.

from my own eyes, i find that catholics seem to focus most of their time adhering to strict rules and worshipping the virgin mary where as christians focus on Jesus and his teachings.

Catholics seem to worship the crucifiction of Christ as opposed to say the Methodists who worship the rebirth.

Believe me. Sunday morning mass is quite differant between the two.

Roman Catholicism is bureaucratic.... and made up mostly by men not God. Your whole religion was made by kings and the rich and changed in anyway the Vatican sought it fit into their lifestyles.

Church for them is more a ceremony or a ritual then a place where you go to speak to god. Adhere or go to hell is their way.

I hope I offend.

Roman Catholicism is bureaucratic.... and made up mostly by men not God.

When thinking of bureaucracy the first thing I think about is structured and organized, so it’s not necessarily a bad thing. To say however that the church is made up of more men than God, is kind of extreme to say don’t you think? With your view on it, I’m putting a number on God and saying that a group of man is greater than him within the church. Whether it be Christianity or Catholicism, God is still the overpowering entity no matter how big the number of people are in the congregation.

If your are raised catholic, but all lost faith, is it possible to shed the idea of penance?

Originally posted by Mouse
When thinking of bureaucracy the first thing I think about is structured and organized, so it’s not necessarily a bad thing. To say however that the church is made up of more men than God, is kind of extreme to say don’t you think? With your view on it, I’m putting a number on God and saying that a group of man is greater than him within the church. Whether it be Christianity or Catholicism, God is still the overpowering entity no matter how big the number of people are in the congregation.

It is more the truth than extreme. They made up all these laws and structures of power for themselves, not others, and not for god.

If your are raised catholic, but all lost faith, is it possible to shed the idea of penance?

It sounds like you just contradicted yourself. If you feel the need for penance there must still be a part of you that feels sinful and believes in cleansing yourself to the higher power of God. I don’t believe that you can honestly have no faith, yet still feel the need to repent

It is more the truth than extreme. They made up all these laws and structures of power for themselves, not others, and not for god.

A majority of the religious laws are in fact for the benefit of God and his people. Yes, the Catholic laws were created in a time when the church had say in governmental policy and were a bit harsh. But I don’t feel that they were made up without keeping the will of God in mind. It’s a church, and Catholic and Christian religions always keep God’s interests above all.

Originally posted by Mouse
When thinking of bureaucracy the first thing I think about is structured and organized, so it’s not necessarily a bad thing.

yeah but it's not necessarily a necessary thing either. in regards to faith in the beliefs taught in the Bible then you shouldn't need anymore structure and organization then what the Bible offers. i don't agree with all the hail mary's and "no meat on friday" stuff because, imo, it's just not necessary.

Purity, that is exactly what I was saying earlier in this thread. I don’t believe a structured church is necessary for faith either. The only church that can give you faith, hold it, and let it grow, is your own soul; not a building of brick and stone. However churches do help quite a bit keep your faith strong and offer reassurance in time of doubt and troubles; and for that I believe structure and discipline is necessary.

Quote:It’s a church, and Catholic and Christian religions always keep God’s interests above all.

Are you sure though???

So like did you stop at a monestary of monks or something during your road trip???

Am I sure? ... Am I sure for a fact that God even exists? Am I sure that faith is even necessary in order to get into heaven? .. No one knows for sure about any of this stuff, hence the idea of faith. When I said that the church always thinks about God first, it was more of an ethical hope that they would in fact do so. I know some churches are just out for money, personal gain, etc. I’m talking about the early foundation that these churches were first created upon though.

Originally posted by Mouse
Purity, that is exactly what I was saying earlier in this thread. I don’t believe a structured church is necessary for faith either. The only church that can give you faith, hold it, and let it grow, is your own soul; not a building of brick and stone. However churches do help quite a bit keep your faith strong and offer reassurance in time of doubt and troubles; and for that I believe structure and discipline is necessary.

This is somewhat true but the Vadican took this to their own level for their own purposes. Also did you know no where in the bible does it state to worship the Virgin Mary? She isn't even a ****ing virgin she had kids after sha had Jesus. It was something the Catholics totally made up on their own. Talk about false religion.

This seems lke a good time to bang on Mormons for some reason.

So like did you stop at a monestary of monks or something during your road trip???

Haha, no I didn’t. But I’m a writer and the next short story that I’m going to be writing about has to do with the laws of the churches alongside their origins and cultures. I’m getting into this like I do with all of my writing. I’ve been researching my ass off, learning as much as I can about this, talking to people and starting debates so I can hear other peoples views on this, I’ve also been praying every night and day to God that he let me see face-to-face the demons that surround us everyday. I want this next story to have a realistic horror-terror aspect to it dealing with events that could actually happen in real life. I’ve been visiting churches and talking to priests, I’ve been sitting in dark alleys, attics, and old houses in the hopes that I might see something or feel something not of this world. In order to write good horror on a topic, I have to first experience it myself in real life.

Originally posted by Mouse
However churches do help quite a bit keep your faith strong and offer reassurance in time of doubt and troubles; and for that I believe structure and discipline is necessary.

that's a good point but i don't believe that madatory rituals, that were never even addressed in the Bible, will help as much as just being around a community of believers will. the keyword is MANDATORY. afterall, even church service is a ritual. BUT these rituals should be used as tools to aid, and not be looked upon as mandatory activities.

i feel that the main thing these rituals accomplish is driving away non-believers. it also furthers sterotypes that mainstream society fuels (e.g.- that all believers think that they're exclusive and everyone else is gonna burn in hell)

Purity, I agree with you 100 percent on that. I think that the Catholics have mandatory rituals and prayers mainly to establish discipline in the believer, which will inturn help their walk with Christ. So it's not that you haveto do these things in order to get into heaven, it's the idea that they will make you stronger and more focused if you do infact make such sacrifices.

http://www.blacklightonline.com/media01/crotch.jpg

WOW!! *mom is amazed at the intelligent conversation going on in the room* *is proud of her "kids"*

I agree with everything that Purity has said. I appreciate how it was written. It's as if you looked into my heart and head and took it right out of there. Being raised Lutheran and marrying into a Catholic family has caused alot of problems....but you worded it beautifully. It took me years to learn how to say it like that.

*still in shock*:)

Originally posted by Mouse
Purity, I agree with you 100 percent on that. I think that the Catholics have mandatory rituals and prayers mainly to establish discipline in the believer, which will inturn help their walk with Christ. So it's not that you haveto do these things in order to get into heaven, it's the idea that they will make you stronger and more focused if you do infact make such sacrifices.

I have listened to them in church dude and it's more like you will go to hell if you don't do these things we say. Take weekly repentance for your sins. This was made up back in the middle ages just so the church could raise money by blackmailing the people of the church and since it has been done since then now it’s mandatory.

They even have their baptisms all wrong. How does a baby make a conscious decision to follow in Christ? No where in the bible does it say to get baptized as soon as you are born, it says to do it once you have fully understood who god is and that you want to change your ways by acknowledging you are a sinner and you want to follow Christ. They turned everything into rituals thus losing their relationships with God.

I am not saying every Catholic has lost touch but as a whole they pretty much have.

Originally posted by ruffneck119
I have listened to them in church dude and it's more like you will go to hell if you don't do these things we say. Take weekly repentance for your sins. This was made up back in the middle ages just so the church could raise money by blackmailing the people of the church and since it has been done since then now it’s mandatory.

well there's things that you will go to hell for. it's not for failing to commit various rituals but since they emphasize so MUCH on the rituals then it can appear like they're saying something to the effect of:
"you will burn in eternal hellfire if you eat red meat this friday!!!"

repentence, regardless of how often a certain group requires it, has been around since day 1. as far as the blackmailing issue, this was done by the catholics during a brief period where they actually SOLD "certificates" to get into heaven.

Originally posted by ruffneck119

They even have their baptisms all wrong. How does a baby make a conscious decision to follow in Christ? No where in the bible does it say to get baptized as soon as you are born, it says to do it once you have fully understood who god is and that you want to change your ways by acknowledging you are a sinner and you want to follow Christ.

that's a good point but, on the flip side, the main purpose behind baptism is to simply symbolize being re-born into a new life with Christ. if a family wants their newborn to have Christ in his/her life then they'll baptise them at birth; makes sense.
it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that you can ONLY do it once you've made the decision to follow Christ.

Originally posted by madcrewmom
WOW!! *mom is amazed at the intelligent conversation going on in the room* *is proud of her "kids"*

I agree with everything that Purity has said. I appreciate how it was written. It's as if you looked into my heart and head and took it right out of there. Being raised Lutheran and marrying into a Catholic family has caused alot of problems....but you worded it beautifully. It took me years to learn how to say it like that.

*still in shock*:)

thank you mom :)
i love talkin about spiritual stuff. that and politics too. it's rare that the issues come about on here but it's fun when they do.

Originally posted by Purity

that's a good point but, on the flip side, the main purpose behind baptism is to simply symbolize being re-born into a new life with Christ. if a family wants their newborn to have Christ in his/her life then they'll baptise them at birth; makes sense.
it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that you can ONLY do it once you've made the decision to follow Christ.

Actually, I am pretty sure The Bible does say something about baptism being a conscious personal vow to god. I’ll see what I can find out in that regard.

Originally posted by ruffneck119
Actually, I am pretty sure The Bible does say something about baptism being a conscious personal vow to god. I’ll see what I can find out in that regard.

If I remember correctly, the baptism is "cleanse the child of original sin" We are all born with original sin. The baptism washes the baby of that sin with the parents and godparents to raise the baby in the eyes of God. IT's more of a promise from the parents/godparents than the baby.

Originally posted by madcrewmom
IT's more of a promise from the parents/godparents than the baby.

Then that means the person still hasn't gave themselves to Christ/God, so it's not a baptism?

It's as if you are doing it for the baby since he/she can't make that choice. In the Catholic and Lutheran religions, it's done as a baby with that promise to raise the child a Catholic or Lutheran. You are still considered baptised within those religions. But, if you are baptised in one, you must be rebaptised in the other if you become confirmed in that other religion.

ie: M was baptised Catholic and went thru her First Communion Catholic. She did not stay with the Catholic faith and attends a Christian Church with her bf. She likes it better, but if she had stayed Catholic, she would have been confirmed there with no problem. Her siblings were baptised Lutheran, not Catholic, and therefore if they were to be confirmed Catholic, they would have to be rebaptised in the Catholic Church. They are so strict on this stuff, M will have to be rebaptised in the Catholic Church (she was already, remember) in order to be married in the CC because the church where she was baptised never recorded her baptism officially. All we have is the ornamental certificate that they gave us.