View Full Version : So, how do you beat up these Kung Fu guys?


BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 12:54 PM
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T-97
07-20-2008, 01:08 PM
LOL!

The fight still happening?

j
07-20-2008, 01:20 PM
what kung fu guys? you mean the karate expert and the kid who is looking very awkward with his taekwondo?

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 01:25 PM
what kung fu guys? you mean the karate expert and the kid who is looking very awkward with his taekwondo?

Yes, both those guys.:D

jenalberti
07-20-2008, 01:51 PM
LMAO. That first video is great....wait, they both are. I thought the guy in the first video was going to turn green and get all buck on that guy, but nope he got knocked the f@#k out instead. With the secound guy I would have thrown a couple of shots upstairs, and then a swift kick to the jewels. Great stuff.

j
07-20-2008, 01:52 PM
well first the first video:

that guy is what? a blackbelt. he might be tricky because it looks like he has practiced for at least a few years. my guess is that he has no less than 5 years under his belt. he seemed pretty relaxed. his strike didn't look too powerfull, but he knew how to use it and that made the difference. usually karate guys, and i practiced karate when i was 6 years old, are more straight line orientated. so, quick, short circles and spirals into his structure ought to make him feel really uncomfortable. usually, i see karate done way too stiff. this guy didn't seem super stiff though. and i would say he is used to sparring by the casualness of his body language.

second video:

makes me laugh everytime. this is a great video to show people how to look stupid in public with your art of choice. this kids movements are useless. i can't imagine that he was taught to pose like that in a real fight situation. it looks like he has either seen one too many jet li or bruce lee movies or is auditioning for a madonna video. and why the **** is he walking around like he stepped in dog **** and is trying not to get it on mommy's carpet?

the fight, if u want to call it that, is basically him(the vogue master in red shirt) getting lucky and catching the wannabe gansgster kid with a nicely relaxed swing punch at the right time. neither kids in this video have skills that would scare a novice street fighter even.

j
07-20-2008, 02:03 PM
this is what the "real" **** looks like. he is my teachers kung fu brother.

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BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 02:05 PM
well first the first video:

that guy is what? a blackbelt. he might be tricky because it looks like he has practiced for at least a few years. my guess is that he has no less than 5 years under his belt. he seemed pretty relaxed. his strike didn't look too powerfull, but he knew how to use it and that made the difference. usually karate guys, and i practiced karate when i was 6 years old, are more straight line orientated. so, quick, short circles and spirals into his structure ought to make him feel really uncomfortable. usually, i see karate done way too stiff. this guy didn't seem super stiff though. and i would say he is used to sparring by the casualness of his body language.

second video:

makes me laugh everytime. this is a great video to show people how to look stupid in public with your art of choice. this kids movements are useless. i can't imagine that he was taught to pose like that in a real fight situation. it looks like he has either seen one too many jet li or bruce lee movies or is auditioning for a madonna video. and why the **** is he walking around like he stepped in dog **** and is trying not to get it on mommy's carpet?

the fight, if u want to call it that, is basically him(the vogue master in red shirt) getting lucky and catching the wannabe gansgster kid with a nicely relaxed swing punch at the right time. neither kids in this video have skills that would scare a novice street fighter even.

So, I have a better chance at beating the guy in the red. Could a boxer beat the guy in the white shirt up?

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 02:10 PM
this is what the "real" **** looks like. he is my teachers kung fu brother.

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You mean you really know that guy?

Btw did Bruce Lee really know his ****, or was he just a bodybuilder who knew the basics?:D

j
07-20-2008, 02:18 PM
So, I have a better chance at beating the guy in the red. Could a boxer beat the guy in the white shirt up?

it really depends on who is fighting who and what kind of day you are having. you know, you are not on top of your game everyday.

i don't think i know your age, your size, or your history, but i would still say you could probably put mr vogue to sleep based on that video.

sure, a boxer might be able to beat up the karate guy in the white shirt. it all depends. martial arts aren't a end all to every violent situation. it depends on the person, the opponent, and what kind of day everyone is having.

but martial artists, ones who train with contact sparring, have a lot more weapons at their disposal and are more comfortable using **** that a boxer may have no idea how to defend against. besides cherry picking many of their first round fights, the gracies became popular and successful because many people didn't know what moves bjj had or how to defend against it. it is the same idea as you being prepared for a knife fight when your opponent suddenly brings out a baseball bat. you would not be ready to defend against it.

j
07-20-2008, 02:23 PM
You mean you really know that guy?

Btw did Bruce Lee really know his ****, or was he just a bodybuilder who knew the basics?:D


yeah, i know him. my teacher grew up training with him in the 1960's and 1970's so he stopped by the area for a week and taught intensively here for that short period of time. i missed out on one of the more personal training sessions with him, but i learned a lot from him. there are other people i know who are famous as well. the guy in the video here is a national full contact fighting champion from the country he lived in. i am not even going to go into his credentials.

j
07-20-2008, 02:29 PM
btw, that guy also beat the navy seals boxing champion of taiwan when he was younger. he is near or about 50 years old in the video.

i forgot to answer your other question.

bruce lee, as far as i know, trained a bit in wing chun. that he used as a base for his art called jeet kune do. i heard that bruce was more into acting and that acting was more of his passion that martial arts. jeet kune do is a mish mash of what bruce read in books, saw on tape, and studied in wing chun. he used his early students as test dummies apparently.

he was not feared by other martial artists. i would say he could probably fight well for his size. but he is over exagerrated by people.

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 02:30 PM
yeah, i know him. my teacher grew up training with him in the 1960's and 1970's so he stopped by the area for a week and taught intensively here for that short period of time. i missed out on one of the more personal training sessions with him, but i learned a lot from him. there are other people i know who are famous as well. the guy in the video here is a national full contact fighting champion from the country he lived in. i am not even going to go into his credentials.

So, have you won any Tournaments?

j
07-20-2008, 02:33 PM
So, have you won any Tournaments?

i have serious knee injury and chronic inflammation of tissue around some of my bones - so i don't get involved in tourneys. i have fought unofficially though. and of course have been into a few streetfights in my day. i do spar as much as i can to keep sharp.

my boy won his fight at this years tournament though. i think the official result was tko 35 seconds including the time for medical evaluation i think.

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 02:36 PM
i have serious knee injury and chronic inflammation of tissue around some of my bones - so i don't get involved in tourneys. i have fought unofficially though. and of course have been into a few streetfights in my day. i do spar as much as i can to keep sharp.

my boy won his fight at this years tournament though. i think the official result was tko 35 seconds including the time for medical evaluation i think.

Are there any videos of your boy on Youtube?:D

j
07-20-2008, 02:38 PM
Are there any videos of your boy on Youtube?:D

hold on, i think there is.

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 02:45 PM
hold on, i think there is.

hold on, i think you are full of ****

j
07-20-2008, 02:48 PM
hold on, i think you are full of ****

good for you bro!

j
07-20-2008, 02:51 PM
hey richloc, do me a favor and don't post the vid - since i am obviously full of ****.

thanks

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 02:53 PM
hey richloc, do me a favor and don't post the vid - since i am obviously full of ****.

thanks

why didn't you say this post on pm to richloc??

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 02:56 PM
why didn't you say this post on pm to richloc??

How do you know he didn't also tell me in a pm?:D

j
07-20-2008, 03:01 PM
can i atleast know what part i am full of **** about?

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 03:07 PM
can i atleast know what part i am full of **** about?


cause u are always trying to act all wise but 99 procent of the time you don't know what u talking about.

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 03:13 PM
cause u are always trying to act all wise but 99 procent of the time you don't know what u talking about.

Ok, then why haven't you told me how to beat those kung fu guys?

j
07-20-2008, 03:18 PM
what exactly do i not know what i am talking about? i would like to hear an example. and your resume would help too so i know where you are coming from other than sounding like u haven't been laid for 10 years.

j
07-20-2008, 03:19 PM
trying to act wise???? wtf? like i have to ****ing act on a forum.

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 03:20 PM
can i atleast know what part i am full of **** about?

what exactly do i not know what i am talking about? i would like to hear an example. and your resume would help too so i know where you are coming from other than sounding like u haven't been laid for 10 years.

like in that other thread where u say people don't have to eat every day. basicly everything you post is mostly bull**** but i don't have time to search other posts from you.

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 03:24 PM
like in that other thread where u say people don't have to eat every day. basicly everything you post is mostly bull**** but i don't have time to search other posts from you.

This one time I went two days in a roll without eating. I only drank coffee.:D

PunchDrunk
07-20-2008, 03:25 PM
this is what the "real" **** looks like. he is my teachers kung fu brother.

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J, I have full respect for you and your knowledge, and I also respect the different martial arts, but, that video does not look like "the real **** to me. It is clear that these guys are not trying their hardest, they are playing along, making him look good and themselves stupid. Come on, no one is as clumsy as those guys, they're not even trying. That is not real.

Just try focusing your attention to one of the assailants to see what they're doing. A five year old could attack with more grace, purpose and vicious intent than those three guys combined. Honestly, that **** makes martial arts look bad.

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 03:25 PM
This one time I went two days in a roll without eating. I only drank coffee.:D

not really healthy. but this j said eating every day is a bad habbit. wtf lol

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 03:27 PM
J, I have full respect for you and your knowledge, and I also respect the different martial arts, but, that video does not look like "the real **** to me. It is clear that these guys are not trying their hardest, they are playing along, making him look good and themselves stupid. Come on, no one is as clumsy as those guys, they're not even trying. That is not real.

why do you respect his wisdom? just read carefully what he says, most of the time it's some bul**** he pickt up from some kun fu movie. just like this video he posted, thats just prooves that he has no clue.

j
07-20-2008, 03:29 PM
i have gone 7 days without eating - it is called fasting. you make it sound like i recommend it to everyone. i fast to stay as healthy as i can because i cannot afford to be unhealthy.

you be might thinking in a box.

and is that the only example? that i said people think they are starving if they do not eat for a whole day?

so you have nothing else? feel free anytime to call bull**** on something. like i care. i still have yet to see your credentials to judge me. mine are everywhere on here.

PunchDrunk
07-20-2008, 03:30 PM
why do you respect his wisdom? just read carefully what he says, most of the time it's some bul**** he pickt up from some kun fu movie. just like this video he posted, thats just prooves that he has no clue.

I don't agree with everything he says, but most of the time what he says makes sense to me.

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 03:32 PM
i have gone 7 days without eating - it is called fasting. you make it sound like i recommend it to everyone. i fast to stay as healthy as i can because i cannot afford to be unhealthy.

you be might thinking in a box.

and is that the only example? that i said people think they are starving if they do not eat for a whole day?

so you have nothing else? feel free anytime to call bull**** on something. like i care. i still have yet to see your credentials to judge me. mine are everywhere on here.

lol 7 days without eating, either u are a liar or u are really dumb.

PunchDrunk
07-20-2008, 03:33 PM
lol 7 days without eating, either u are a liar or u are really dumb.

I have a friend who has done that. I wouldn't try it myself, but it is very possible. :)

j
07-20-2008, 03:35 PM
punchdrunk, they are probably scared of ****ing with him. having met and been hit by him personally, i can see that as a possibilty.

i am pretty sure that vid is not meant to be them actually going at it - more of a demonstration. i'll tell u one thing about the guy, he used to work as a bodyguard - for a reason. and not ust any bodyguard either. i cannot even talk about it actually. but i have links up in my blog to his website.

if u look at his movements, he is also taking his time so he doesn't hurt one of them. you might want to turn the sound up though so u can hear those palm strikes.

by the real ****, i simply mean this is a guy who has been in more documented fights than anybody on this site. his **** works and he does not teach bull****. keep in mind that at over 50 years old, he is scary to be around.

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 03:37 PM
J, I have full respect for you and your knowledge, and I also respect the different martial arts, but, that video does not look like "the real **** to me. It is clear that these guys are not trying their hardest, they are playing along, making him look good and themselves stupid. Come on, no one is as clumsy as those guys, they're not even trying. That is not real.

Just try focusing your attention to one of the assailants to see what they're doing. A five year old could attack with more grace, purpose and vicious intent than those three guys combined. Honestly, that **** makes martial arts look bad.

Maybe, they were rookies, and they knew the punishment they would receive. If they tryed to attack with full force.

j
07-20-2008, 03:39 PM
lol 7 days without eating, either u are a liar or u are really dumb.

still waiting on your credentials big guy. u know what your talking about, right? so, how long have you been training? with who?

I have a friend who has done that. I wouldn't try it myself, but it is very possible

not only is it very possible, it is actually common. it is an eastern practice - please look up fasting if you don't believe me. i hardly ever do 7 days. usually i stick to 3 days. it is great for detoxification. rules are you can only drink water. and you are best not to jump into it. you have to progress slowly. otherwise, you will get sick.

animals do it when they are sick btw.

j
07-20-2008, 03:41 PM
Maybe, they were rookies, and they knew the punishment they would receive. If they tryed to attack with full force.

i don't know, i didn't ask. why don't you just go to my blog, go to his website, and look at his credentials.

edit - sorry, i thought you were other dude for a minute. i don't mean 2 sound rude

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 03:42 PM
not really healthy. but this j said eating every day is a bad habbit. wtf lol

I tryed to do it again, but it's hard.:D

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 03:42 PM
still waiting on your credentials big guy. u know what your talking about, right? so, how long have you been training? with who?



not only is it very possible, it is actually common. it is an eastern practice - please look up fasting if you don't believe me. i hardly ever do 7 days. usually i stick to 3 days. it is great for detoxification. rules are you can only drink water. and you are best not to jump into it. you have to progress slowly. otherwise, you will get sick.

animals do it when they are sick btw.

what credentials? im 18 and im here to learn not to try and build a reputation like u are trying to do, u are probably a loser in real life thats why u try to be a respected wise person on some forum.

BOLLOCKS
07-20-2008, 03:50 PM
what credentials? im 18 and im here to learn not to try and build a reputation like u are trying to do, u are probably a loser in real life thats why u try to be a respected wise person on some forum.

Ok, you're here to learn, so why you calling someone who is trying to teach a liar and a loser?:slap:

PunchDrunk
07-20-2008, 03:51 PM
punchdrunk, they are probably scared of ****ing with him. having met and been hit by him personally, i can see that as a possibilty.

i am pretty sure that vid is not meant to be them actually going at it - more of a demonstration. i'll tell u one thing about the guy, he used to work as a bodyguard - for a reason. and not ust any bodyguard either. i cannot even talk about it actually. but i have links up in my blog to his website.

if u look at his movements, he is also taking his time so he doesn't hurt one of them. you might want to turn the sound up though so u can hear those palm strikes.

by the real ****, i simply mean this is a guy who has been in more documented fights than anybody on this site. his **** works and he does not teach bull****. keep in mind that at over 50 years old, he is scary to be around.

Either way, it makes them all look foolish. If he was that good, I'm sure he could have found somebody better than the three stooges to demonstrate on. Not trying to sound rude, but that video is just ridiculous.

And I wasn't talking about his punches or kicks, but theirs. They are clearly not trying to hit him, I would think you could see that with half a glance...

j
07-20-2008, 03:51 PM
what credentials?

lol!!! yeah, that says it all right there. your 18, of course you have been around, right?

yeah, sure i'm a loser. :sad:

i don't even know who u are. yet, u think u know me. i don't mind entertaining your ass during summer vacation. myself, i am just letting the movers do their work. i am moving so right now i am kicking back and relaxing.

damn, i haven't even been on this forum much in the last 4 or 5 months and i'm getting called a loser by an 18 year old who apparently has no formal training in either boxing or martial arts. lucky me!

2quick2slick
07-20-2008, 03:52 PM
Haha! Dude ate a backhand.

j
07-20-2008, 03:53 PM
Ok, you're here to learn, so why you calling someone who is trying to teach a liar and a loser?:slap:

whoah, hold on bro. i am not trying to teach on the internet. i already have enough people who ask me to teach them **** face to face. i still feel i need a few years more work before i consider teaching anything but basics.

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 03:53 PM
Ok, you're here to learn, so why you calling someone who is trying to teach a liar and a loser?:slap:

cause i know this guy is full of ****, from now on i will expose every bulsit he posts

PunchDrunk
07-20-2008, 03:54 PM
Maybe, they were rookies, and they knew the punishment they would receive. If they tryed to attack with full force.

Not a very good basis for demonstrating your abilities. I wouldn't pick the clumsiest, scaredest guy I could find, to demonstrate my skills in the boxing ring.

sukhenkoy
07-20-2008, 03:54 PM
I tryed to do it again, but it's hard.:D

I hear its hard for the first 3 days. After that you kind of lose your appetite, and it becomes easier after that. I really wouldn't recommend this for a boxer that trains hard on a regular basis, as you need food and energy to keep the intensity up.

Something like this would make sense to me for somebody that used to box or train regularly in a sport, got mixed in with drugs and alcohol for a long time, and then wanted to clean out their body before starting up with the training again. That being said, however, a person has to build up to the 7 days. Start out with 1 day, then 2, 3, and then try 7.

PunchDrunk
07-20-2008, 03:55 PM
Come on guys, let's not get personal. There's too many personal feuds going on in here, it's getting tiring...

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 03:55 PM
lol!!! yeah, that says it all right there. your 18, of course you have been around, right?

yeah, sure i'm a loser. :sad:

i don't even know who u are. yet, u think u know me. i don't mind entertaining your ass during summer vacation. myself, i am just letting the movers do their work. i am moving so right now i am kicking back and relaxing.

damn, i haven't even been on this forum much in the last 4 or 5 months and i'm getting called a loser by an 18 year old who apparently has no formal training in either boxing or martial arts. lucky me!

omg this is a internet forum no one cares u are moving, u don't have to post excuses why u are on this site.U seem like u really care how people on a forum think about you.

j
07-20-2008, 03:58 PM
Either way, it makes them all look foolish. If he was that good, I'm sure he could have found somebody better than the three stooges to demonstrate on. Not trying to sound rude, but that video is just ridiculous.

And I wasn't talking about his punches or kicks, but theirs. They are clearly not trying to hit him, I would think you could see that with half a glance...


yeah man, i see what you are saying. remember, he is a 50 something year old that has a reputation built on accepting any challenge from anybody who wants to fight. look him up if you don't believe me.

i am not saying i am close to as good as he is, or some of his peers, i am simply saying that this is one of those real guys who is a genuine expert at his art. again, look him up. read peoples opinion on him.

i have personally crossed hands with him and i know for myself what he is capable of. i had the marks to show for like 2 weeks after. he has this kind of claw grip that if he grabs you with it, it pinches the skin enough to make you bleed. hurts like a mother****er. you should've seen my ****ing arms after that. sore to the touch.

j
07-20-2008, 04:00 PM
omg this is a internet forum no one cares u are moving, u don't have to post excuses why u are on this site.U seem like u really care how people on a forum think about you.

that's why i care so much what u think, right? lol.

you are the guy waisting your time talking to a "loser," remember?

so who is the real idiot here?

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 04:02 PM
yeah man, i see what you are saying. remember, he is a 50 something year old that has a reputation built on accepting any challenge from anybody who wants to fight. look him up if you don't believe me.

i am not saying i am close to as good as he is, or some of his peers, i am simply saying that this is one of those real guys who is a genuine expert at his art. again, look him up. read peoples opinion on him.

i have personally crossed hands with him and i know for myself what he is capable of. i had the marks to show for like 2 weeks after. he has this kind of claw grip that if he grabs you with it, it pinches the skin enough to make you bleed. hurts like a mother****er. you should've seen my ****ing arms after that. sore to the touch.

u mean that guy pincht you gave it a cool name like "the claw grip attack" and now you consider him as on of the greatest fighters?

j
07-20-2008, 04:04 PM
Not a very good basis for demonstrating your abilities. I wouldn't pick the clumsiest, scaredest guy I could find, to demonstrate my skills in the boxing ring.



check out some of his **** on youtube. it is mostly educational in nature. you just have to trust me on his ability if you can't tell. i don't know the story with the multiple attackers, but i imagine it is from a video and is a demonstration of how to deal with many people. so, it should be looked at as an example. if u really want to know something, let me PM you.

j
07-20-2008, 04:05 PM
u mean that guy pincht you gave it a cool name like "the claw grip attack" and now you consider him as on of the greatest fighters?

u must be having so much fun!

how about you man up and go check out a boxing gym or a martial arts gym and get back to me then.

j
07-20-2008, 04:07 PM
w, faygen, feiden, whatever it is, i was not talking to you man. chill the **** out. you are ****ing up everyone's convo.

don't be that person that nobody has invited or even wants at a party.

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 04:09 PM
well first the first video:

that guy is what? a blackbelt. he might be tricky because it looks like he has practiced for at least a few years. my guess is that he has no less than 5 years under his belt. he seemed pretty relaxed. his strike didn't look too powerfull, but he knew how to use it and that made the difference. usually karate guys, and i practiced karate when i was 6 years old, are more straight line orientated. so, quick, short circles and spirals into his structure ought to make him feel really uncomfortable. usually, i see karate done way too stiff. this guy didn't seem super stiff though. and i would say he is used to sparring by the casualness of his body language.
second video:

makes me laugh everytime. this is a great video to show people how to look stupid in public with your art of choice. this kids movements are useless. i can't imagine that he was taught to pose like that in a real fight situation. it looks like he has either seen one too many jet li or bruce lee movies or is auditioning for a madonna video. and why the **** is he walking around like he stepped in dog **** and is trying not to get it on mommy's carpet?

the fight, if u want to call it that, is basically him(the vogue master in red shirt) getting lucky and catching the wannabe gansgster kid with a nicely relaxed swing punch at the right time. neither kids in this video have skills that would scare a novice street fighter even.


thats an example of bul**** you post, u can't know all that by a couple of sec video. U just know most of the people here aren't really in to karate so we just have to accept that u are right and it will make you look like u know what u are talking about.

Fidayin
07-20-2008, 04:11 PM
w, faygen, feiden, whatever it is, i was not talking to you man. chill the **** out. you are ****ing up everyone's convo.

don't be that person that nobody has invited or even wants at a party.

again proove that u are a dumb loser, u try to act like a wise man but then when someone makes u angry u start acting like a lil kid.

PunchDrunk
07-20-2008, 04:14 PM
check out some of his **** on youtube. it is mostly educational in nature. you just have to trust me on his ability if you can't tell. i don't know the story with the multiple attackers, but i imagine it is from a video and is a demonstration of how to deal with many people. so, it should be looked at as an example. if u really want to know something, let me PM you.

I believe you. :)
I just think the video is dumb, but I guess in martial arts there is a tradition of putting on demonstrations where they aren't really fighting, and that is hard for an old boxing nerd to understand. ;)

j
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
I believe you. :)
I just think the video is dumb, but I guess in martial arts there is a tradition of putting on demonstrations where they aren't really fighting, and that is hard for an old boxing nerd to understand. ;)

yes! u are right!

you know why? because many years ago, people solely relied on martial arts for money - and they didn't have yellowpages back then. word of mouth, or demonstrations of power for example were used a lot for a reason - to hide their actual practice.

see, if you and one other guy were the only 2 teachers in town, you guys would likely end up fighting. and the loser would have to leave town for good or not teach there anymore. the winner would get the loser's students and also new students by word of mouth.

now, if your rival knew what you did, he could prepare for u much easier. that is one thing that led to secrecy. and secrecy has also led to the decline in people with real abilities.

read my blog if u want to know more bro. i don't mind.

mr tricky
07-20-2008, 05:40 PM
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im sorry but that **** is pathetic in a real fight,
rewatch it again and imagine one of the little guys giving his a straight right and left hook, or some kind of punch to the jaw instead of doing usless holds and stuff,

just rewatch it and look , you can see it looks coreographed and planned on is just stupid in a rela fight you would just hit him and feint and easily hit the old guy

j
07-20-2008, 05:42 PM
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im sorry but that **** is pathetic in a real fight,
rewatch it again and imagine one of the little guys giving his a straight right and left hook, or some kind of punch to the jaw instead of doing usless holds and stuff,

just rewatch it and look , you can see it looks coreographed and planned on is just stupid in a rela fight you would just hit him and feint and easily hit the old guy

do you think you could beat him up?

j
07-20-2008, 05:55 PM
dude, i am more than sure he has been in more fights than you and any five people you know combined. let's make that ten.



having personally met the guy, anything he wants to work will work. he could handle me when we were playing around fairly easily. he folded my ass up with one of those little palm strikes.

now, you think it is choreographed? lol. unbelieveable some of you people. i guess you guys have never met someone who could humble you in 2 seconds. your loss. you might want to take the time to read about him before you think how easy it would be to beat him up.

to be honest, if i would have my hands full with him, and i have been studying fighting for nearly 20 years, you would be as much threat to him as a baby is to you or me.

people don't travel across the world to train with him because he can't fight.

when you win a full contact tournament on a national level more than once, then i will definitely consider that you may know what u are talking about.

j
07-20-2008, 05:59 PM
this was once a fun little convo, but then everyone here started becoming experts on things they have not ever done. i am done with this. i am not sure what u would expect to see from a 50+ year olf guy having fun with a few people - and mainly pointing out the strategy of continuous movement, for that is what u should see it for. if you ever meet him, then i am sure u will be happy to tell me how wrong you are about his technique.

edit: one last thing - he makes you second guess yourself. especially as a student because you know what he can do. sure, they don't look menacing. but this guy actually is. and has done probably more dirt than u can dream of.

JayCoe
07-20-2008, 06:02 PM
Like people say, when a boxer faces somebody who does a very different martial art, mostly oriental arts, it really depends on the day and how good either one is.

However, when fighting somebody who, for example, does karate you would stay in close use hooks, uppercuts, you'd duck and dive and utilise both sides of the body. Martial art punches don't tend to be that powerful, it's the kicks i'd be worried about which is why i'd be in close. Once i'm stuck on them like a fly i've completely removed their legs from the fight making it simply an in-fighter vs. in-fighter boxing match, except they don't know boxing :). Other arts like Muay Thai however use elbows aswell so you'd have to acknowledge this and threat these like a hook, raisng your bicept and forearm to cover the entire side of your face. But like i've mentioned before, I think the most important factor would be to remove their legs from the fight which does force you into fight on the inside. Like mentioned earlier in the thread, it'd be like being prepared for a knife fight and the guy pulling out a baseball bat if you let them use their legs because we have no idea how to defend against kicks. Chances are i'd be moving in low and then high, slipping and ducking and would end up with an easy kick to the face if I didn't go in close simply because that's my reaction. Once you're on the inside you also have to remember the boxing face guard, I believe, is stronger than many martial arts guards so now in that equation you're the guy with the bat not the knife, not them.

That guy in the red t-shirt has made a complete joke of himself. He can't fight, it's just the guy in black can't fight more. Look at the guy in blacks punches at ~ 1:15, they're nothing and yet the guy in red doesn't react well at all to an easy punch, they get tangled in a ***** slap fight and the guy in red lands the lucky shot. Had nothing to do with any martial arts, he missed more shots than he landed, basically he just swang his arms and he landed a swing best first.

j
07-20-2008, 06:10 PM
Like people say, when a boxer faces somebody who does a very different martial art, mostly oriental arts, it really depends on the day and how good either one is.

However, when fighting somebody who, for example, does karate you would stay in close use hooks, uppercuts, you'd duck and dive and utilise both sides of the body. Martial art punches don't tend to be that powerful, it's the kicks i'd be worried about which is why i'd be in close. Once i'm stuck on them like a fly i've completely removed their legs from the fight making it simply an in-fighter vs. in-fighter boxing match, except they don't know boxing :). Other arts like Muay Thai however use elbows aswell so you'd have to acknowledge this and threat these like a hook, raisng your bicept and forearm to cover the entire side of your face. But like i've mentioned before, I think the most important factor would be to remove their legs from the fight which does force you into fight on the inside. Like mentioned earlier in the thread, it'd be like being prepared for a knife fight and the guy pulling out a baseball bat if you let them use their legs because we have no idea how to defend against kicks. Chances are i'd be moving in low and then high, slipping and ducking and would end up with an easy kick to the face if I didn't go in close simply because that's my reaction. Once you're on the inside you also have to remember the boxing face guard, I believe, is stronger than many martial arts guards so now in that equation you're the guy with the bat not the knife, not them.

That guy in the red t-shirt has made a complete joke of himself. He can't fight, it's just the guy in black can't fight more. Look at the guy in blacks punches at ~ 1:15, they're nothing and yet the guy in red doesn't react well at all to an easy punch, they get tangled in a ***** slap fight and the guy in red lands the lucky shot. Had nothing to do with any martial arts, he missed more shots than he landed, basically he just swang his arms and he landed a swing best first.

haha, yeah that guy in red owned himself. i cannot even try to understand what was going through his head. he must have thought he was in a movie or something. it reminds me of neo from the matrix.

and dude, where the hell did u get that martial arts don't have strong punches. my **** has a huge focus on power/concussive punching. believe me i hit hard enough. and i always love hitting harder. you must have had bad experiences.

yeah, that kid in red, like i said, just swung at the right time and happened to connect. i wonder if he thinks he is a badass now. also reminds me of karate kid for some reason.

fraidycat
07-20-2008, 06:25 PM
If I can, for a moment, go back to the original question:

What both of the guys who got owned in those videos did, that lost them the fight, was HESITATE. I'm not saying that they could have won against their opponents, but they both made the same mistake.

I've said this before and I stand by it: what makes boxing effective "on the street" is not punching ability. Boxing as a martial art does not win fights. What makes a boxer dangerous is what he's been through in his training. Boxing is one of the only martial arts that is practiced full-contact, with limited padding. A skilled boxer -- someone with, say, 5 years of hard training and a dozen matches under his belt -- has probably been punched in the face full-force a hundred times; so many times that it doesn't bother him any more than the shock of cold water bothers a competitive swimmer. He has been knocked to the ground. He's had the wind knocked out of him. He has conditioned himself to fight on with no wind, or with a broken nose, or even choking on his own blood. He knows that taking a heavy punch or kick is not going to kill him; he won't panic when he gets hit, or freak out at the taste of his own blood. And because of his conditioning and his experience in the ring, he's used to putting his body through a degree of pain that most people do not, and because of this, HE DOES NOT HESITATE. You punch a skilled boxer in the face, and he won't blink. Even if you can hit him, he just won't care.

Watch this guy:

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Note how the guys he takes out spend most of their time TRYING NOT TO GET HIT -- covering up, back-stepping. Him? He just wades in, taking shots he's obviously practiced ten thousand times. Even if one of those guys had clocked him I doubt it would've even slowed him down.

There used to be a great news video of a Turkish (IIRC) security guard who has had boxing training, taking out eight or nine guys in the space of like fifteen seconds (EDIT: Mostly with jabs!) Because they hesitated and flinched, and he didn't.

That's what boxing gives you, that most martial arts don't. My nephew trains at a "martial arts" gym that DOES NOT HAVE CONTACT. At all. He can break a board held overhead with a jump kick, but he has never had the wind knocked out of him. He's never been punched. He's 15.

Anyone remember the first big hit you took? The first one that laid you out. The first one when you realized that this **** is serious; when you were lying on the canvas and started to shake uncontrollably. That punch. Personally, I threw up. Then I went into shock, and I cried for about ten minutes. That's what happens to most people the first time they get hit by someone who knows how to hit, the way a skilled boxer knows how to hit. Shock. Panic. Shutdown. That immediate sense that you are in over your head. Your brain telling you that you cannot deal with another punch like that; that you are in imminent mortal danger.

It doesn't happen to me anymore. I finished a match with a punctured eardrum last year. The guy busted my eardrum and I knocked him across the ring with an overhand right two seconds later. That's what boxing gives you, that most other forms don't. If you're a boxer, that's what you have, to work with. That's ALL you have. Just hope it's enough.

fraidycat
07-20-2008, 06:34 PM
I should add, too, that what I described above: panic, shock, shutdown -- is what's happening to Charlie "White Hope" Zelenoff in the clip in my sig. About ten seconds before this GIF he took a looping left hook to the face and he just shut down. He spent the rest of the fight -- all twenty seconds of it -- trying to not get hit again.

His mistake?

He had never sparred full-contact.

Read that again.

He had never sparred full-contact.

Charlie had "trained" on pads and a heavybag at the Hollywood Boxing Gym, and when I dropped in to spar him, I was told that they don't allow contact sparring. As a result, the first time he took a full-force hit was in a potentially life-threatening situation.

He's lucky to have escaped a pro fight alive.

JayCoe
07-20-2008, 07:43 PM
I think you're mostly right but in that video I don't think you can put how good he is down to the fact he's not spending time trying not to get hit, the reason he was so effective was because he was fighting people who suspecting, he was fast as **** and kept everything brilliant. If they'd have starting swinging at him I doubt he would have ignored it, he would have ducked and dived caught them on counters and then taken back the offensive.

You know I never knew until recently how few people actually fight, it kind of shocked and worried me. I've got friends, 18-19, who have never punched somebody, never been hit or if they have hit somebody it wasn't a real punch, it was a random swing. Hell, I remember as a kid a game me and my brothers use to love was my oldest would stand in a wide doorway holding two padded pillows, myself and my other brother had to run across the room through the doorway and whilst the oldest would try hit us down...I was about 5, it was great fun. Hell, any English people on here remember the game "British Bulldog" or "Run Across"...1 person had to go into the middle, everybody else stood on one end of the playground and the person in the middle chose 1 person and they'd have to run across to the other side whilst the other guy tried to beat **** out of him until he gave in. If he gave in he joined the guy in the middle and they now worked as a team. If he didn't everybody ran across at the same time and the guy in the middle had to try catch someone else. By the end it was 1 vs. everyone...It was brutal, you were dragging people to the floor, punching and kicking on a tarmac playground and this was when we were like 5-11! AWESOME GAME!.

You're right about the hesitation though. Boxing makes you so much more liberal with your fists which is a good thing and a bad thing. I think if somebody tried to swing a punch at me i'd slip it and come back with like 3 without thought. Few days ago a mate whipped me with a belt he just bought, I punched him in the arm (not at full strength) and afterwards I quickly realised that instead of just punching him in the arm like anybody would I was stood there in full boxing stance, guard up, elbows in, feet diagnol ready to pivot the backhand...It's crazy

sukhenkoy
07-20-2008, 09:07 PM
If I can, for a moment, go back to the original question:

What both of the guys who got owned in those videos did, that lost them the fight, was HESITATE. I'm not saying that they could have won against their opponents, but they both made the same mistake.

I've said this before and I stand by it: what makes boxing effective "on the street" is not punching ability. Boxing as a martial art does not win fights. What makes a boxer dangerous is what he's been through in his training. Boxing is one of the only martial arts that is practiced full-contact, with limited padding. A skilled boxer -- someone with, say, 5 years of hard training and a dozen matches under his belt -- has probably been punched in the face full-force a hundred times; so many times that it doesn't bother him any more than the shock of cold water bothers a competitive swimmer. He has been knocked to the ground. He's had the wind knocked out of him. He has conditioned himself to fight on with no wind, or with a broken nose, or even choking on his own blood. He knows that taking a heavy punch or kick is not going to kill him; he won't panic when he gets hit, or freak out at the taste of his own blood. And because of his conditioning and his experience in the ring, he's used to putting his body through a degree of pain that most people do not, and because of this, HE DOES NOT HESITATE. You punch a skilled boxer in the face, and he won't blink. Even if you can hit him, he just won't care.

Watch this guy:

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Note how the guys he takes out spend most of their time TRYING NOT TO GET HIT -- covering up, back-stepping. Him? He just wades in, taking shots he's obviously practiced ten thousand times. Even if one of those guys had clocked him I doubt it would've even slowed him down.

There used to be a great news video of a Turkish (IIRC) security guard who has had boxing training, taking out eight or nine guys in the space of like fifteen seconds (EDIT: Mostly with jabs!) Because they hesitated and flinched, and he didn't.

That's what boxing gives you, that most martial arts don't. My nephew trains at a "martial arts" gym that DOES NOT HAVE CONTACT. At all. He can break a board held overhead with a jump kick, but he has never had the wind knocked out of him. He's never been punched. He's 15.

Anyone remember the first big hit you took? The first one that laid you out. The first one when you realized that this **** is serious; when you were lying on the canvas and started to shake uncontrollably. That punch. Personally, I threw up. Then I went into shock, and I cried for about ten minutes. That's what happens to most people the first time they get hit by someone who knows how to hit, the way a skilled boxer knows how to hit. Shock. Panic. Shutdown. That immediate sense that you are in over your head. Your brain telling you that you cannot deal with another punch like that; that you are in imminent mortal danger.

It doesn't happen to me anymore. I finished a match with a punctured eardrum last year. The guy busted my eardrum and I knocked him across the ring with an overhand right two seconds later. That's what boxing gives you, that most other forms don't. If you're a boxer, that's what you have, to work with. That's ALL you have. Just hope it's enough.
Great post, fraidy. Really good read.

fraidycat
07-21-2008, 12:37 AM
and afterwards I quickly realised that instead of just punching him in the arm like anybody would I was stood there in full boxing stance, guard up, elbows in, feet diagnol ready to pivot the backhand...It's crazy

I had a piece of pipe swing down out of control on a lanyard -- it had been pulled down from an overhead bin -- at the boatshop a few weeks ago. Someone yelled, I saw it out of the corner of my eye, went into a peekaboo stance, and slipped back as it went by, then shuffled out of range, hands still beside my head, as it came back on its return swing. It missed me by about three feet on the first swing, five feet on the return.

"Dude," laughed a co-worker. "Box much?"

"Wanna fight, *******?"

"Uh, no. I'm good."

My first and only fight after taking up boxing, a guy sucker-punched me. I weaved under it, and he hit the wall and busted his hand. I'm never giving up this sport.

KostyaTszyu44
07-21-2008, 03:14 AM
with boxing vs martial arts/mma/wrestling etc i think it comes down to who gets the first good shot in...if a boxer gets the first punch in, the martial arts guy is gone, but if a martial arts/wrestling guy gets the first strike/throw or whatever in they will win....i think it would come down more to the individual people and reacton times then whatever fighting style is "superior"

KostyaTszyu44
07-21-2008, 03:18 AM
He had never sparred full-contact.

Read that again.

He had never sparred full-contact.

Charlie had "trained" on pads and a heavybag at the Hollywood Boxing Gym, and when I dropped in to spar him, I was told that they don't allow contact sparring. As a result, the first time he took a full-force hit was in a potentially life-threatening situation.

He's lucky to have escaped a pro fight alive.

holy **** what kind of ****ing gym lets a guy who has never sparred full contact have an amateur or pro bout?? thats retarded

Equilibrium
07-21-2008, 04:34 AM
I agree about a lot of what fraidycat said. But personally, around where i grew up if you have never took a fist to the face before you are 18 you are a walking miracle.

I had taken my share of fists to the face before i ever stepped in a boxing gym at 14, well, i must admit i wasnt the most peaceful kid growing up, but still.

Before boxing i did traditional martial arts, some tae-kwon-do and karate. I must say, those things will never get you ready for a "real" fight. Traditional martial arts are good for discipline and keeping in shape, thats about it.

I remember watching a documentary on Rickson Gracie and he was saying:

"You take a black belt and punch him in the face once, he is now a brown belt, you punch him again he is a purple belt..."

And i think it's pretty accurate.

mkm88414
07-21-2008, 12:17 PM
i agree with fraidy cat and jaycoe.

as far as the original question how to beat up kung fu (traditional martial arts) guys, jaycoe pretty much had it spot on

the majority of traditional martial arts sparring is done at range, and going inside would definitely be the strategy to use. UNLESS of course the martial art were talking about is judo or brazilian jiu jitsu, then it is obviously a bad idea to get close to them if u dont have to.

fraidycat
07-21-2008, 03:05 PM
holy **** what kind of ****ing gym lets a guy who has never sparred full contact have an amateur or pro bout?? thats retarded

In the gym's defense, Zelenoff decided on his own to get his pro license and arrange a fight. I guess you've gotta give the clown at least one point for balls.

I sure wish I could've sparred him, though. He would have had a much more solid idea of the caliber of beating he could endure and still live through. :boxing:

PunchDrunk
07-21-2008, 03:18 PM
In the gym's defense, Zelenoff decided on his own to get his pro license and arrange a fight. I guess you've gotta give the clown at least one point for balls.

I sure wish I could've sparred him, though. He would have had a much more solid idea of the caliber of beating he could endure and still live through. :boxing:

Balls and ignorance are not one and the same :D

fraidycat
07-21-2008, 03:30 PM
Balls and ignorance are not one and the same :D

Agreed, but I think he threaded the needle between them.

j
07-22-2008, 02:33 PM
martial arts are distance arts now?

really, judo and bagua are two arts well known for their takedowns and work off of the clicnch. wing chun is also called "phone booth boxing" because it relies heavily on the bridge from what i have seen.

i wouldn't be so quick to say the martial arts generally even, fight at a distance. you must be thinking "kick, punch, block" or something. good skills are fluid and a good fighter, regardless of style, can go from 4 feet away from you to behind you before you can counter react.

the majority of traditional martial arts sparring is done at range, and going inside would definitely be the strategy to use. UNLESS of course the martial art were talking about is judo or brazilian jiu jitsu, then it is obviously a bad idea to get close to them if u dont have to.

sorry, but there are more close range arts than i can count. many i probably don't even know of. you would fall easily into a trap if you think it is that easy.

for a person who teaches as an example. they practice 8 or more hours every single day. they are very aware of anything you can attempt.

j
07-22-2008, 02:38 PM
again, i think you have to have studied martial arts for many years to get even a shallow understanding of them. now, i love boxing, that is why i chill on this site. my art is basically boxing at it's beginning level. my teacher has boxing training and even has a published article about comparing the two arts.

it is weird that people think of boxing as being separate from martial arts. and even seemingly having blind loyalty to boxing as the superior art of choice to use for self defence.

jack dempsey wrote a great book on using boxing for self defense. it is not very different than a "kung fu" training manual.

j.razor
07-22-2008, 02:46 PM
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that was weak!!!

j
07-22-2008, 02:58 PM
that was weak!!!


yes, but let's give it pionts for being funny as hell. especially mr vogue in the red shirt and tough thug who gets put on his ass by a rookie in bull****-do.

JayCoe
07-22-2008, 03:39 PM
J is right, which kind of goes without saying to be honest. The biggest problem with this thread is the use of the term "martial arts" which is too broad of a definition. I tried to make some seperation between them by saying to go on the inside for Karate etc. but acknowledge the elbows of Muay Thai. I meant to mention JuJitsu and how you'd work the jab from the outside stance but seemed to forget to add that part. What I did forget which j mentioned was Wing Tsun.

That's a very aggressive very close combat sport in which somebody skilled in the art could probably throw about 8 punches in a few seconds but i'll admit I don't know the power of their punches, I just know of it for its constant blocking and incredible speed. Goes without saying that here you'd stay on the outside, or, you use their desire to fight using their art against them by moving backwards which would making them follow you to get in close and then quickly change, sharply slam into them and really fight on the inside as in pivot your shoulder into theirs so you're side on and hit with an uppercut, slip under and behind and move for the next shot (but you are in a street fight so I guess you could do what you want from behind but that's abit cowardly but then again if they really are skilled it's abit stupid not to. Guess it depends). The reason this might work, j correct me if i'm wrong here please, is as far as I know the Wing Tsun guard bases itself on having your forearms against theirs etc. and/or have a quite a wide guard which means if you're quick you could get inside their arms but with boxing, well atleast amatuer, the guard tends to be tight up by the face which means if you slammed into me my guard is still up, you're not "in it". This means you could possibly leave them without a guard but man you'd have to be quick and skilled. Easy to write, hard to do.

j
07-22-2008, 04:01 PM
well, not being a wing chun expert, but having watched the sticky hand comps up close with great interest the last few years, i would say you are half right half wrong.

there is always a way to deal with a situation. i have found, the more you are into martial arts, the more different people you will encounter. the more different people you encounter, the more your physical vocabulary expands.

everybody is looking for your weak points when you play or spar. so, you have better be aware of them if you want to survive as being known as a decent fighter.

my style i, and many other people refer to it as chinese boxing. technically, any fighting style is called boxing in chinese. but what i practice will look like boxing when you are a begginner because we like power punches. it is different than how you think of wing chun as we would focus more on one powerfully measured strike than 5 little ones. the system i know is made to adapt to any situation because it is not based on technique. it is based on principal of movement, strategy, etc... so, we do not have a "if he does that i do this" type of training. one movement, or better expressed - type of power or force - can be used as a throw, strike, and push for example. my blog has more details.

rowdy144
07-22-2008, 05:07 PM
This reminds me of an article I read online last week. This guy who had done boxing for a number of years went to a Karate or Tae Kwon do lesson just to check it out. I think somehow he ended up speaking with the instructor and the instructor found out he did boxing and wanted them to spar in front of the class afterwards. The instructor started telling him he would go easy on him and as soon as he threw a strate punch the boxer slipped it and threw a body shot.

I was gonna post this article up in this thread but can't find it, has anyone else come accross this article?