the traveler
07-15-2008, 02:44 PM
"And Eminem killed you on your own ****," Nas said to Jay-Z on his diss song "Ether". But, did he really?
When asked by The Source magazine in an interview circa 2001 about what Nas said, Eminem himself said that he is surprised when people tell him that he killed Jay-Z on the hit song "Renegade" and that he believes that he and Jays verses were infact equal.
I'm with Eminem in that I don't understand why so many people feel so strongly that Eminem had the better verse than Jay-Z.
Renegade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RejfpFCLti0
Ok, here's the thing. Both verses are similar in that they're directed towards critics. Eminem's verse is directed towards those people that were all up in arms about his lyrics and that wanted to censor his ****. Mostly it's parents and the media.
He opens up his verse stating that he may or not be the menace that he's claimed to be, then the next 6 lines are pretty empty. He spends the next 5 basically stating who he is by saying questions. These lines are pretty empty and don't have much to do with the main point of the verse.
He doesn't really start to get into the main point of his verse until the 6th line. There, he starts to question if his music is really hate music or if it's beautiful music that is food for the spirit. The problem with this line, as is the problem with the verse, is that he never really offers an answers to the question, thus he never adequalty argues that his music is not what it is said to be. What he does do is turn it around and throws insults back at his critics by questioning who they are to criticize him when they themselves may have done some of the same things he talks about. But the problem with that is that the reasoning is not there. It doesn't take an innocent person to be able to tell what it right or wrong.
Jay-Z's verse is a lot more effective to me and it speaks on a larger and much more important social issue than Eminem's verse does. His verse is relevant responds to a lot of the criticism that rappers have gotten over the years for speaking so raw about what goes on in the ghetto. Jay-Z's verse speaks on racial and political issues in when he says "The same ghetto you ruined" In a way that line points the finger at the goverment for the state of the ghettos. It implies the lack of adequate education and jobs in the ghettos and the CIA funding of crack in the ghettos.
"I made something doing" He states how he made it out of the ghetto despite the odds against him, despite the goverment's lack of help.
"I give you the news, with a twist, it's just his ghetto point of view, the renegade, you been afraid, I penetrate pop culture, bring 'em a lot closer to the block where they pop toasters"
These lines are powerful, particularily the line "You been afraid" Basically what he's pointing out is that the media and the goverment is often afraid to point out the ills of the ghettos due partially to being ashamed of what they did to it and their fear of facing the truth of just how bad things are. It's like they're throwing their nose in the air, afraid to live with themselves about what is occuring.
Jay-Z adequatly points himself out as a renegade by showing how he's broken through pop culture and illustrated the ills of the ghetto.
"How you relate music, that thugs with nothing relate to it, I helped them see their way through it, not you"
He brings up the hypocrisy in the media sitting back and criticising rappers for their portrayals of the ghetto yet not doing anything to help the people in the ghetto. He says you haven't done **** for these people, while it's me and rappers like me that have come out of the ghettos that are speaking directly to those facing some of the situations that we came out of.
I think that's really powerful.
The last line "Can't step in my pants, can't walk in my shoes, bet everything you're worth, you'll lose your tie and your shirt"
Is basically him saying that I bet everything that if you were in the same situations that I came from that you'd lose your tie and your shirt, which means that you'd lose that professional, white collar attitude.
Jay-Z's verse on Renegade is highly underrated.
When asked by The Source magazine in an interview circa 2001 about what Nas said, Eminem himself said that he is surprised when people tell him that he killed Jay-Z on the hit song "Renegade" and that he believes that he and Jays verses were infact equal.
I'm with Eminem in that I don't understand why so many people feel so strongly that Eminem had the better verse than Jay-Z.
Renegade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RejfpFCLti0
Ok, here's the thing. Both verses are similar in that they're directed towards critics. Eminem's verse is directed towards those people that were all up in arms about his lyrics and that wanted to censor his ****. Mostly it's parents and the media.
He opens up his verse stating that he may or not be the menace that he's claimed to be, then the next 6 lines are pretty empty. He spends the next 5 basically stating who he is by saying questions. These lines are pretty empty and don't have much to do with the main point of the verse.
He doesn't really start to get into the main point of his verse until the 6th line. There, he starts to question if his music is really hate music or if it's beautiful music that is food for the spirit. The problem with this line, as is the problem with the verse, is that he never really offers an answers to the question, thus he never adequalty argues that his music is not what it is said to be. What he does do is turn it around and throws insults back at his critics by questioning who they are to criticize him when they themselves may have done some of the same things he talks about. But the problem with that is that the reasoning is not there. It doesn't take an innocent person to be able to tell what it right or wrong.
Jay-Z's verse is a lot more effective to me and it speaks on a larger and much more important social issue than Eminem's verse does. His verse is relevant responds to a lot of the criticism that rappers have gotten over the years for speaking so raw about what goes on in the ghetto. Jay-Z's verse speaks on racial and political issues in when he says "The same ghetto you ruined" In a way that line points the finger at the goverment for the state of the ghettos. It implies the lack of adequate education and jobs in the ghettos and the CIA funding of crack in the ghettos.
"I made something doing" He states how he made it out of the ghetto despite the odds against him, despite the goverment's lack of help.
"I give you the news, with a twist, it's just his ghetto point of view, the renegade, you been afraid, I penetrate pop culture, bring 'em a lot closer to the block where they pop toasters"
These lines are powerful, particularily the line "You been afraid" Basically what he's pointing out is that the media and the goverment is often afraid to point out the ills of the ghettos due partially to being ashamed of what they did to it and their fear of facing the truth of just how bad things are. It's like they're throwing their nose in the air, afraid to live with themselves about what is occuring.
Jay-Z adequatly points himself out as a renegade by showing how he's broken through pop culture and illustrated the ills of the ghetto.
"How you relate music, that thugs with nothing relate to it, I helped them see their way through it, not you"
He brings up the hypocrisy in the media sitting back and criticising rappers for their portrayals of the ghetto yet not doing anything to help the people in the ghetto. He says you haven't done **** for these people, while it's me and rappers like me that have come out of the ghettos that are speaking directly to those facing some of the situations that we came out of.
I think that's really powerful.
The last line "Can't step in my pants, can't walk in my shoes, bet everything you're worth, you'll lose your tie and your shirt"
Is basically him saying that I bet everything that if you were in the same situations that I came from that you'd lose your tie and your shirt, which means that you'd lose that professional, white collar attitude.
Jay-Z's verse on Renegade is highly underrated.