View Full Version : Speed V Power


P4PKING_2008
07-07-2008, 08:05 PM
Which would you prefer to have naturally?

cibola4
07-07-2008, 08:10 PM
power...as long as i can take damage good if i have a huge right and a huge left, let those little quick jabs bounce off me like rain...if i can get in one good hit..it will be over.

aussieboxer2320
07-07-2008, 08:11 PM
speed defintely

i dunno which i have naturally, my first trainer said i hit harder than any 7 stone fighter he'd seen before, but my new coach said i had great speed and my power was alright......confusing lol but i personally think im more fast than powerful

aussieboxer2320
07-07-2008, 08:16 PM
power...as long as i can take damage good if i have a huge right and a huge left, let those little quick jabs bounce off me like rain...if i can get in one good hit..it will be over.

yeah power always keeps you in the fight but if your fighting a fast guy with good defence, good chin and good technique like floyd mayweather, your power will mean nothing, look at floyds fight against de la hoya oscar throws a bellringing left hook but it never connected on floyd.

also an amateur fight is only 3 rounds or 4 if your a senior and theres a stoppage rule if a guy is 20 points ahead so a powerful puncher doesnt have alot of time to just get set and wait for a big shot to land, cos if he does he might be stopped on points or lose a lopsided points decision.......

P4PKING_2008
07-07-2008, 08:38 PM
speed defintely

i dunno which i have naturally, my first trainer said i hit harder than any 7 stone fighter he'd seen before, but my new coach said i had great speed and my power was alright......confusing lol but i personally think im more fast than powerful

How old are ya? I thought I was light at 55kg lol.

I'd prefer speed because I have that naturally and speed will win most fights against a power puncher.

bomber91
07-07-2008, 08:40 PM
Which would you prefer to have naturally?

speed........cuz it also comes with power........

laurinsane8
07-07-2008, 09:05 PM
i agree with cibola. I mean amateur you got to land more punches, but people who hit me with fast punches. I used to let them because they felt like mosquitos bites, then nail em with a huge hook or a straight right. I noticed speed of punches would slow down quickly.

As long as I'm fast on my feet I'm happy.

FIGHTING_FLIP
07-07-2008, 09:13 PM
speed........cuz it also comes with power........

paulie malignaggi

aussieboxer2320
07-07-2008, 09:38 PM
How old are ya? I thought I was light at 55kg lol.

I'd prefer speed because I have that naturally and speed will win most fights against a power puncher.

im 14 yeah im pretty light lol, but i dont look it im fairly well built for such a light weight i look about 54 kg lol but its good cos i mite be goin to the national championships this year and there'll only be two or three guys in my age and weight category so if i win my next 2-3 fights i could have a crack at being national champ lol

it says your 17 so ill probably be your weight at 17

Equilibrium
07-07-2008, 09:43 PM
Power.

Speed can be improved greatly by working on it.

With power, you either have it or you don't.

PunchDrunk
07-07-2008, 10:08 PM
Only one person in here has made any sense so far... Power is Mass (Weight) x Acceleration (which is Speed). Since boxing has weight divisions, the only physiological factor (technique also plays a big part) that Power is dependant upon in a given division, is Speed. Without Speed, there is no Power. Mike Tyson was one of the most powerful punchers of all time because he was so damn explosive (fast!)
George Foreman was a heavy puncher because he was big and heavy, had he been faster he would have hit a lot harder (he couldn't knock out Ali).
Malinnagi's lack of punch power is two things: He's too defensive minded to put his weight into his shots, hence less power, and second, his socalled "speed" is more about timing and his "vision" for boxing, than any physical attribute (not that he's slow).

!! Shawn
07-07-2008, 10:15 PM
Which would you prefer to have naturally?

Neither. Id take intelligence over both any day of the week.

!! Shawn
07-07-2008, 10:25 PM
Only one person in here has made any sense so far... Power is Mass (Weight) x Acceleration (which is Speed). Since boxing has weight divisions, the only physiological factor (technique also plays a big part) that Power is dependant upon in a given division, is Speed. Without Speed, there is no Power. Mike Tyson was one of the most powerful punchers of all time because he was so damn explosive (fast!)
George Foreman was a heavy puncher because he was big and heavy, had he been faster he would have hit a lot harder (he couldn't knock out Ali).
Malinnagi's lack of punch power is two things: He's too defensive minded to put his weight into his shots, hence less power, and second, his socalled "speed" is more about timing and his "vision" for boxing, than any physical attribute (not that he's slow).

That is wrong on many levels. Force = Weight x Acceleration is only relevant in terms of arm punches. At the shoulder rotation level even the fastest punches probably fall under 5 mph. The difference in force between turning your shoulders at 3 mph and 5 mph is insignificant.

As we all know arm punches are not knockout punches. Fast hands are good for stinging punches, nothing else. If you theory was correct, putting weight behind punches would be unneeded as the speed and force behind a fast moving arm would provide all the power you need.

True power comes from the proper application of leverage. Obviously if you do jostle the brain fast enough to temporarily disrupt functioning, your power wont do much, and that can be seen in some fights were a fights is able to take the punches of a murderous puncher when they are not known for a strong chin.

J_CON
07-07-2008, 10:34 PM
speed. You can gain more power than speed

aussieboxer2320
07-07-2008, 10:35 PM
That is wrong on many levels. Force = Weight x Acceleration is only relevant in terms of arm punches. At the shoulder rotation level even the fastest punches probably fall under 5 mph. The difference in force between turning your shoulders at 3 mph and 5 mph is insignificant.

As we all know arm punches are not knockout punches. Fast hands are good for stinging punches, nothing else. If you theory was correct, putting weight behind punches would be unneeded as the speed and force behind a fast moving arm would provide all the power you need.

True power comes from the proper application of leverage. Obviously if you do jostle the brain fast enough to temporarily disrupt functioning, your power wont do much, and that can be seen in some fights were a fights is able to take the punches of a murderous puncher when they are not known for a strong chin.


haha classic shawn

PunchDrunk
07-07-2008, 10:55 PM
That is wrong on many levels. Force = Weight x Acceleration is only relevant in terms of arm punches. At the shoulder rotation level even the fastest punches probably fall under 5 mph. The difference in force between turning your shoulders at 3 mph and 5 mph is insignificant.

As we all know arm punches are not knockout punches. Fast hands are good for stinging punches, nothing else. If you theory was correct, putting weight behind punches would be unneeded as the speed and force behind a fast moving arm would provide all the power you need.

True power comes from the proper application of leverage. Obviously if you do jostle the brain fast enough to temporarily disrupt functioning, your power wont do much, and that can be seen in some fights were a fights is able to take the punches of a murderous puncher when they are not known for a strong chin.

No you misunderstand mass x acceleration = power on many levels.

Mass x acceleration = power is relevant to the impact of the punch, this has nothing to do with arm punches, but with impact.
The shoulder rotation you're babbling about is one of the technical aspects I mentioned. Obviously proper technique is required to get full power. It is also required to utilize your physical potential for speed however.

The leverage you talked about is weight applied technically correct.

Technique is a very important part of boxing is the summation of what you just said. Whoopee. That is irrelevant to this thread however, because it is about the physical, not technical attributes called speed and power. It (the thread subject) is also based on an erroneous supposition that you have to sacrifice one to have the other, which is not true. Power comes from speed, and is directly dependent upon it. That is what I tried to clarify in my post.

Verstyle
07-07-2008, 10:55 PM
Power can take you out at any time. THREAD CLOSED

PunchDrunk
07-07-2008, 11:02 PM
Power can take you out at any time. THREAD CLOSED

Slippery shoes can take you out at any time :D

!! Shawn
07-07-2008, 11:04 PM
No you misunderstand what mass x acceleration = power on many levels.

Mass x acceleration = power is relevant to the impact of the punch, this has nothing to do with arm punches, but with impact.
The shoulder rotation you're babbling about is one of the technical aspects I mentioned. Obviously proper technique is required to get full power. It is also required to utilize your physical potential for speed however.

Technique is a very important part of boxing is the summation of what you just said. Whoopee. That is irrelevant to this thread however, because it is about the physical, not technical attributes called speed and power. It (the thread subject) is also based on an erroneous supposition that you have to sacrifice one to have the other, which is not true. Power comes from speed, and is directly dependent upon it. That is what I tried to clarify in my post.

But that is not true. Power is not dependent on speed. The percentage of power that is contributed by the kinetic energy imparted into your arm during a punch is a rather insignificant amount.

I didn't want to have to break out the math to prove you wrong, but I will if necessary.

You seem to be incorrectly implementing the force = mass * acceleration formula into your argument.

PunchDrunk
07-07-2008, 11:19 PM
But that is not true. Power is not dependent on speed. The percentage of power that is contributed by the kinetic energy imparted into your arm during a punch is a rather insignificant amount.

I didn't want to have to break out the math to prove you wrong, but I will if necessary.

You seem to be incorrectly implementing the force = mass * acceleration formula into your argument.

No argumentation in what you just said whatsoever. Power is dependent on speed. If I throw a bullet lightly at you, it won't even bruise you. If the same bullet is accelerated by a gun, it'll go right through you. A truck hitting you at 2 mph might give you a good bump, but at 50 mph, it'll break every bone in your body, and send you flying.
A punch thrown at your chin with correct leverage but no speed will be a tap or a push. As you accelerate the speed of that punch, you increase the power.

Edit: You're welcome to record one of your vids of you throwing a punch at 2 miles an hour that has the power to knock someone out, since power isn't dependent on speed.

Verstyle
07-07-2008, 11:20 PM
Slippery shoes can take you out at any time :D

****in,Punch. haha.

!! Shawn
07-07-2008, 11:41 PM
No argumentation in what you just said whatsoever. Power is dependent on speed. If I throw a bullet lightly at you, it won't even bruise you. If the same bullet is accelerated by a gun, it'll go right through you. A truck hitting you at 2 mph might give you a good bump, but at 50 mph, it'll break every bone in your body, and send you flying.
A punch thrown at your chin with correct leverage but no speed will be a tap or a push. As you accelerate the speed of that punch, you increase the power.

Edit: You're welcome to record one of your vids of you throwing a punch at 2 miles an hour that has the power to knock someone out, since power isn't dependent on speed.

Now you are being ridiculous. I already said you only need enough speed to be able to jostle the brain sufficiently.

Never mind that the velocity of a punch moves on an eliptical curve due to the mechanics of the motion being created by two conjoined circular arks. This means that as the punch is extended past the half way point, the velocity decreases towards zero. Being exponential means that if the top speed of the punch was 100mph, and the speed 2 inches from the end was 10mph a punch with a speed of 50mph would result in a 7mph end speed.

It is obvious from your posts that your grasp on physics is rather limited, otherwise you would not be making such scientifically absurd statements.

!! Shawn
07-07-2008, 11:42 PM
No argumentation in what you just said whatsoever. Power is dependent on speed. If I throw a bullet lightly at you, it won't even bruise you. If the same bullet is accelerated by a gun, it'll go right through you. A truck hitting you at 2 mph might give you a good bump, but at 50 mph, it'll break every bone in your body, and send you flying.
A punch thrown at your chin with correct leverage but no speed will be a tap or a push. As you accelerate the speed of that punch, you increase the power.

Edit: You're welcome to record one of your vids of you throwing a punch at 2 miles an hour that has the power to knock someone out, since power isn't dependent on speed.

If you are instead trying to say that imparting a greater rotational velocity upon the skull of your opponent = greater power, then yes, you are correct, but that is not the argument you are making.

PunchDrunk
07-08-2008, 12:00 AM
Now you are being ridiculous. I already said you only need enough speed to be able to jostle the brain sufficiently.

Never mind that the velocity of a punch moves on an eliptical curve due to the mechanics of the motion being created by two conjoined circular arks. This means that as the punch is extended past the half way point, the velocity decreases towards zero. Being exponential means that if the top speed of the punch was 100mph, and the speed 2 inches from the end was 10mph a punch with a speed of 50mph would result in a 7mph end speed.

It is obvious from your posts that your grasp on physics is rather limited, otherwise you would not be making such scientifically absurd statements.

You're so full of ****, it's not even funny. A punch does not decelarate past the halfway point, it accelerates all the way, until the arm can extend no longer. The punch, if correctly timed and executed, is at it's peak acceleration at the moment of impact. That is why people hurt their elbows when expecting to hit something, but miss.

It is obvious on your posts, that you'r grasp on punching technique, as well as physics, is as overrated by yourself as your boxing ability, otherwise you wouldn't be spewing so much absolute nonsense.

Nice try at a bluff, but you failed miserably. You're a bull**** artist, nothing more.

PS: You still can't throw a 2 mph KO punch.

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 12:12 AM
You're so full of ****, it's not even funny. A punch does not decelarate past the halfway point, it accelerates all the way, until the arm can extend no longer. The punch, if correctly timed and executed, is at it's peak acceleration at the moment of impact. That is why people hurt their elbows when expecting to hit something, but miss.

Nice try at a bluff, but you failed miserably. You're a bull**** artist, nothing more.

No, that is not true. The mean velocity at the fist decreases as the arm becomes more and more extended. It is the same reason why as scissor jack has more leverage at the top of its motion.

While the speed along the circular ark does increase throughout the punch, the translated forward velocity decreases towards zero along an elliptical path.

Take a free spinning wheel for example. While the lateral velocity relative to the ground as measured from the top and bottom of the wheel might be 15mph, the lateral velocity at the front and back of the wheel will always be zero.

While the arm is a more complex structure than a simple free spinning wheel, the principle is the same. The lateral velocity falls off the close you get towards maximum extension (front of the wheel)

Just a heads up, getting into a physics debate with someone who could lecture at length on the finer points of special relativity is not the best idea you would have ever had.

PunchDrunk
07-08-2008, 12:19 AM
No, that is not true. The mean velocity at the fist decreases as the arm becomes more and more extended. It is the same reason why as scissor jack has more leverage at the top of its motion. http://i28.tinypic.com/10o4ak7.jpg

While the speed along the circular ark does increase throughout the punch, the translated forward velocity decreases towards zero along an elliptical path.

Take a free spinning wheel for example. While the lateral velocity relative to the ground as measured from the top and bottom of the wheel might be 15mph, the lateral velocity at the front and back of the wheel will always be zero.

While the arm is a more complex structure than a simple free spinning wheel, the principle is the same. The lateral velocity falls off the close you get towards maximum extension (front of the wheel)

Just a heads up, getting into a physics debate with someone who could lecture at length on the finer points of special relativity is not the best idea you would have ever had.

That is the sorriest attempt at bul****ting I have ever read. The simple fact remains that the fist has to be accelerated through the target to have any effect. Everything else you just said is irrelevant to that.

DA1CATAS
07-08-2008, 12:27 AM
Lol.. how did this even start... I miss so much after just a few days .

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 12:29 AM
That is the sorriest attempt at bul****ting I have ever read. The simple fact remains that the fist has to be accelerated through the target to have any effect. Everything else you just said is irrelevant to that.

Another misstatement by you. The fist has to be driven through the target. I have already established that the fist does not accelerate all the way.

You are simply arguing semantics with me.

I know you are trying to say that imparting velocity upon your opponents head is what is important, but you are frivolously attempting to argue with me about well documented physics.

PunchDrunk
07-08-2008, 12:40 AM
Another misstatement by you. The fist has to be driven through the target. I have already established that the fist does not accelerate all the way.

You are simply arguing semantics with me.

I know you are trying to say that imparting velocity upon your opponents head is what is important, but you are frivolously attempting to argue with me about well documented physics.

You have in no way, shape or form established anything. You have claimed it, nothing more.

You are the one trying to bull**** your way out of a losing argument by changing the subject to wheels, "circular arks" and other irrelevant noise. Anyone who has ever thrown a punch knows that it is accelerated through or into the target (heck even the guy who drew my avatar knew that!). It is also common sense that a correctly executed punch will have more power at a higher speed. Hence power is dependent on speed. That is all I have to say, feel free to talk more bull**** to divert attention from the fact that you're wrong. We both know that is all you're doing.

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 12:50 AM
You have in no way, shape or form established anything. You have claimed it, nothing more.

You are the one trying to bull**** your way out of a losing argument by changing the subject to wheels, "circular arks" and other irrelevant noise. Anyone who has ever thrown a punch knows that it is accelerated through or into the target (heck even the guy who drew my avatar knew that!). It is also common sense that a correctly executed punch will have more power at a higher speed. Hence power is dependent on speed. That is all I have to say, feel free to talk more bull**** to divert attention from the fact that you're wrong. We both know that is all you're doing.

Negative. I know concepts such as exponential fall off in velocity are difficult for you to comprehend, but just claiming that they are irrelevant does not make them so.

You chose to argue with me about the subtle physics involved in a punch. You got in over your head. Deal with it.

I already said I know what you are trying to convey, and essentially that is correct, imparting a higher velocity to your opponents head is better.

However, you would not accept that statement and involved yourself in a physics debate that you are ill equipped to compete in.

You resort to broad sweeping generalizations such as everyone that has ever thrown a punch knows. I have conceded the point because I know what you are trying to convey and arguing physics with someone who does not understands physics is a waste of my time and yours.

I know your balls are tinny and you have a bigger god complex than I do, so we will have to agree to disagree even though I conceded the point but you are not smart enough to realize that.

Rafael Benitez
07-08-2008, 01:28 AM
I have both, so don't have to choose. You need both to succeed in the game but acheiving KO's is essential as a novice whther you do it with big punches or an accumulation of fast combinations. Mnay people I know have had their careers messed up after a few close L's where a KO would have made the difference.

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 01:30 AM
This message is hidden because Rafael Benitez is on your ignore list.

Thats AWESOME! My first ignore, I am so proud of myself!

Rafael Benitez
07-08-2008, 01:38 AM
This message is hidden because Rafael Benitez is on your ignore list.

Thats AWESOME! My first ignore, I am so proud of myself!Alot of people feel proud when they come out and admit they are gay. I don't think anybody reads any of his advice after seeing that you clearly neither have any speed or power. If there are noobs who think he knows anything, just look at his nerdy haircut as well as his undefined shoulders. Not to mention his smelly grandpa grey jogging pants! :wt:

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 01:41 AM
This message is hidden because Rafael Benitez is on your ignore list.

Wow, that is the most constructive thing I have ever seen by his name! Sweet!

Rafael Benitez
07-08-2008, 01:43 AM
This message is hidden because Rafael Benitez is on your ignore list.

Wow, that is the most constructive thing I have ever seen by his name! Sweet!

You are seriously gay son, you don't just look it.

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 01:45 AM
This message is hidden because Rafael Benitez is on your ignore list.

You seem to be trying to say something. Maybe if you took the **** out of your mouth I would be able to understand you... wait nope, you'd still be ignored.

Rafael Benitez
07-08-2008, 02:10 AM
You seem to be trying to say something. Maybe if you took the **** out of your mouth I would be able to understand you... wait nope, you'd still be ignored.

Haha, what a tit. Responds directly to my comment after having me on 'ignore'. I feel sorry for this loser who thinks anyone cares what he reads after posting vids of a **** punk ass white boy trying to box! People like this were forced to do my homework at school.

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 02:17 AM
This message is hidden because Rafael Benitez is on your ignore list.

He is still trying to talk to me isn't he?

Rafael Benitez
07-08-2008, 02:21 AM
He is still trying to talk to me isn't he?Nobody was talking to this tit in first place. Just laughing at his expert boxing videos!

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 02:27 AM
LOL! This goon is trying to flame me by leaving profile messeges! Turns out I see this!

This message is hidden because Rafael Benitez is on your ignore list.

Rafael Benitez
07-08-2008, 02:30 AM
LOL! This goon is trying to flame me by leaving profile messeges! Turns out I see this!
As long as everyone else can see how much of a tit you are, that is good very good! I really hope people don't think this guy knows what he is on about. Especially going on what he does in the gym. This gayboy is the ****test megalomaniac I have seen in boxing. And that is official. People take your advice and tips from elsewhere.

mgkirkpatrick
07-08-2008, 02:32 AM
i think i'd pick exceptional power over exceptional speed.. seems to me that timing is more important than out and out speed.. and im also of the opinion that power can't be taught.

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 02:32 AM
Cool! I just figured out that I can deleted unwanted profile messages!

!! Shawn
07-08-2008, 02:33 AM
i think i'd pick exceptional power over exceptional speed.. seems to me that timing is more important than out and out speed.. and im also of the opinion that power can't be taught.

I agree, as a function of leverage, being bone structure, you are stuck with what you got.

Rafael Benitez
07-08-2008, 02:44 AM
i think i'd pick exceptional power over exceptional speed.. seems to me that timing is more important than out and out speed.. and im also of the opinion that power can't be taught.
True, it cannot be taught but improving technique can enchance what is already there. I have always been a naturally big hitter but my second trainer showed me how to get more leverage into punches by shortening my stance a little and a few other minor details which resulted in a higher KO rate.

P4PKING_2008
07-08-2008, 04:01 AM
im 14 yeah im pretty light lol, but i dont look it im fairly well built for such a light weight i look about 54 kg lol but its good cos i mite be goin to the national championships this year and there'll only be two or three guys in my age and weight category so if i win my next 2-3 fights i could have a crack at being national champ lol

it says your 17 so ill probably be your weight at 17

Yeah I am mate. Good luck with it.

aussieboxer2320
07-08-2008, 06:08 AM
Yeah I am mate. Good luck with it.

you too mate

aussieboxer2320
07-08-2008, 06:11 AM
Lol.. how did this even start... I miss so much after just a few days .

shawn entered a debate, thats what happened

hishaam15
07-08-2008, 11:11 AM
i would rather have speed in a boxing match. with speed comes power.. the faster it hits them the more it hurts.. plus if they arent expecting it it hurts twice as much

P4PKING_2008
07-08-2008, 01:57 PM
shawn entered a debate, thats what happened

:lol1: He got banned.

120
07-08-2008, 01:58 PM
speed........cuz it also comes with power........

Paulie and Calderon don't agree with ya

120
07-08-2008, 02:00 PM
gotta have a combination of both. But i rather have speed

sukhenkoy
07-08-2008, 02:59 PM
It's interesting to compare posters' answers to what they see themselves as possessing more of. It's probably more likely that those that are more powerful, but slower, prefer to have more speed because that's something that they're probably working more on to improve their skills. One that is very quick, but not very powerful, would probably prefer to have more power as to be able to inflict more damage.

I would say I am very slow, so I would like to have more speed over power. It's hard for me to say what I would like to have been born with; I would probably go for power though. Speed seems like something that can be developed more than power.

MikeBrew328
07-08-2008, 03:41 PM
Speed.....speed kills, and what is power? speed + weight. correct punching adds power.

peewee1460
07-08-2008, 09:59 PM
speed kills, but cotto just about killed malignaggi. I'd still rather box like paulie or pep than bang like foreman or miranda.

Rafael Benitez
07-08-2008, 10:30 PM
Speed.....speed kills, and what is power? speed + weight. correct punching adds power.
I think the power debated here is naturally heavy hands. You are correct, but some people will still naturally have more power than others and can hurt with a stiff slow jab.