i have a question for those who may know the answer....the rematch fight betwwen these two where duran gave up..from there on people said that duran would or would have never been able to beat S.R.L....so my queston is...(is that true?_...or was duran old and out of his prime...or could he trully have never had a chance to beat leonard????????

i only ask cuz duran was one of the top p4p boxer of all time like J.C. Chavez and robinson

Duran not have a chance to beat Leonard, He beat him once.



The result in the rematch was due to several factors that did hinder Duran's performance.

The first being that the Leonard camp made sure that Duran wouldn't be able to train more then three weeks to get ready for the rematch.

How did they do this. They pretended to have no intrest in a rematch and then came to Duran offering him a huge percentage, I tink the purse split was like 75-25. Of course Leonard was not concerned about the money in this fight. He was just trying to rebuild his name so there would be bigger paydays in the future.

Anyway, Duran of course accepted the offer, the catch being that the fight was going to take place three weeks after Duran was notified of it. The Leonard camp had been planning this for a long time and Leonard was in peak condition comming in.

Another factor is that "Hands of Stone" was not one to stay in shape and watch what he ate when he didn't have too. On top of that, this Duran was realtivly new to making weight at the welterweight divsion so he really did train to fight Leonard in the rematch during those three weeks, He trained to make weight.


Watch Duran's first fight with Leonard and then the rematch. You can tell he's not there to fight in the rematch. It doesn't look like Duran is at all prepared and it cost him.

People believe he sold out, that fight.

In Panama where is loved the most he was considered a sell-out and couldnt set foot there for a few years.

Many people trying to make a documentary on Duran and that Fight have said that Duran wants a lot of money so he can protect himself of the legal problems what would arise from him revealing the actual truth about the rematch. (sell out)

People believe he sold out, that fight.



I agree. " No mas " is too strange to hear from self Duran. He lost fights before and after, but never thought to make similar. Very suspiciously - you see this guy fought always up to the end.

Yes he was out of his prime. Duran's best days came at 135 where he is regarded as the best lightweight ever.

He would of lost by SD most likely.

i dont know about selling out or not but will check that out...but i always wondered why a duran who was in shape and maybe not in his prime, but still in shape and well driven would lose/quit so badly...but now i see..i didnt know he only had 3 weeks...so duran was better then SRL then if he could beat him in his prime..(?)

sorry always wondering bout leonard-duran II

Whats it mean by Duran sayin "No Mas", whats No mas mean?
why does he say it n whats it supposed to mean

thx guys

He would of lost by SD most likely.

You're stoned. He was being thoroughly dominated in the second fight. It would have been a lopsided UD if not a KO.

"no mas" means no more. As in I'm a giant *****, I quit.

Hurlex, no way was duran better than Leonard at 147.

In their first fight in 1980 Leonard made the mistake of fighting Duran's fight, and he almost beat Duran at his own game. But Duran etched out a close decision.

In the second fight Leonard totally outboxed Duran, frustrating him from the opening bell. That's why Duran quit. He was being made a fool of and his machismo led him to quit rather than continue to be embarrased.

You're stoned. He was being thoroughly dominated in the second fight. It would have been a lopsided UD if not a KO.

Now thats a joke.You must of not seen that fight.All judges had SRL only up by one or two points when he quit.So who is the one stoned,lol.

Judge: Mike Jacobs 66-68 Judge: Jean Deswerts 66-68 Judge: James Brimmell 66-67


Now come correct next time

Now thats a joke.You must of not seen that fight.All judges had SRL only up by one or two points when he quit.So who is the one stoned,lol.

Judge: Mike Jacobs 66-68 Judge: Jean Deswerts 66-68 Judge: James Brimmell 66-67


Now come correct next time

I don't know what the judges cards read, but I know that fight was not close and it was getting worse. I doubt Duran would have won another round. Leonard was in his head and Duran couldn't handle it.

Now thats a joke.You must of not seen that fight.All judges had SRL only up by one or two points when he quit.So who is the one stoned,lol.

Judge: Mike Jacobs 66-68 Judge: Jean Deswerts 66-68 Judge: James Brimmell 66-67


Now come correct next time

Duran couldn't take Leonard's mental onslaught. The scorecards meant nothing. There was an insane momentum shift in Leonard's favor. Duran was nothing but frustrated before the end came. He would have lost the bout by a clear UD.

so your saying over all..SRL could have beaten even a prime duran????

Didn't see it live, but saw the replays at least twice. Sugar Ray was clearly winning when it was stopped.

so your saying over all..SRL could have beaten even a prime duran????
Duran in his prime (i.e. at lightweight) was a monster. Hard to imagine anyone taking him at that weight (Sanchez maybe?).

But Duran as a lightweight monster doesn't make him a SR beater at welter.

yeah leonard did in fact lose to duran but i believe that loss was more mental or a lack of preparation

Leonard was no match for Duran in Montreal and he knew if he fought toe to toe with Duran in the rematch he'd lose again.

Look, in the first fight everyone said that Sugar Ray was going to run from Duran - even Duran said it. He called Leonard everything in the book, but when it came to fight night, Leonard shocked everyone and went toe to toe with Duran.

Leonard proved he wasn't scared of Duran, he fought Durans' fight and Duran had his hands full all night. He didn't beat up Sugar Ray, but he did win the fight. There was no doubt in Sugar Rays' mind, he was going to beat this guy next time, no problem.

The next time around, Sugar Ray fought HIS OWN style of fight and it was a class that Duran knew he had no chance to make the grade in - he was going to fail and fail badly. He couldn't handle Leonards' speed and movement, it was no match, that night at the Superdome, Leonard became a legend, and Duran was never going to be the same, but he knew he wanted "no mas"...

"no mas" means no more. I quit.

Hurlex, no way was duran better than Leonard at 147.

In their first fight in 1980 Leonard made the mistake of fighting Duran's fight, and he almost beat Duran at his own game. But Duran etched out a close decision.

In the second fight Leonard totally outboxed Duran, frustrating him from the opening bell. That's why Duran quit. He was being made a fool of and his machismo led him to quit rather than continue to be embarrased.

I really did not see both fights but, I bet on the two fights, I won on the first one but I lost money on the second....

Truth, legend or myth, Sonny you called it on the button, this was the reason for the "NO MAS" that I grew up with....

To suggest that Duran did not have a chance of beating Sugar Ray is simply flat wrong, the fact is, he was not past his prome but his preparation for the fight was terrible. He began training very late and was surounded by a lot of blood suckers who gave him bad advice, he was on duretics 72 hours before the weight in an attempt to make weight and spent all night on the toilet. He did not eat for 48 hours prior to weight in to try and shed yet more, I doubt there has ever been a fighter that has lost so much weight in the space of 72 hours prior to a world championship fight.

He was so hungry after weight in that he proceeded to gorge on two-three steak dinners. As a consequence he was in no shape to fight Sugar Ray who was in the best condition of his life.

If Duran had prepared for the second fight as he did the 1st then he would have had a shot at winning.

sugar ray never fought anybody unless the odds were in his favor at the time, duran and especially hagler, look at how godam big the ring was, it was huge so he could run the whole dam time, he was the original runner, and when he finally slowed down he took mad beatings at the end of his career because the speed was 90% of his game, hearns kicked his ass in the rematch, lalonde beat on him, and his two comebacks were disastrous

Leonard proved he wasn't scared of Duran



Just a quick footnote

this is how great duran was. people expected Leonard, a natural welterweight, to be scared of a natural lightweight (who also, started his pro career at 17 under 120, and started fighting at lightweight when 20).

Now, he was dirty as hell, I usually like slicksters more than pressure fighters... but that's an achievement

To answer the initial question: yes he was past his prime after 72 fights, fought with his style

Duran is my favorite fighter of all time so I admit I am biased, however facts are stubborn things biased or not so here goes. Someone earlier implied that Duran did not beat up Leonard in the first fight. Wrong. I saw the fight closed circuit at the time, and even Leonards manager knew it was over after about the third round when Duran was having his way and hurting Leonard. After the fight I remember Leonard went on a well deserved vacation with his wife and was contemplating quitting boxing because his body, ribs hurt so much from Duran's punches. This Duran, a natural LIGHTWEIGHT fighting at WELTERWEIGHT at 30 years old. People forget that at the time, before the first fight many were saying Duran was past his prime. There was even a rumor that that Duran had heart problems. Well he wasn't. He beat the crap out of Leonard for 15 rounds and didn't let up. Leonard too fought like the champion he was and is, and I respect him very much. The fight was close only on the cards.

Don't confuse the Duran in the second fight or third with Duran of the first fight. Duran beat Leonard. Duran was hardly marked at all after the first fight, and Leonard was swollen all over, all you need to do is see the tape of the fight.

And as for Duran never being the same again after the second fight, well for God's sake he only knocked out highly regarded Davey Moore at Junior Middle for the title when everyone thought he would be killed. He then very nearly took a decision from Marvin Hagler!!! Duran was ahead I believe after 13 rounds. This is back when Hagler was a machine. Then at 37 years old after almost being decapitated by Hearns, he beats the man who beat the man, the awesome Iran Barkley in the fight of the year.

He continued to fight and entertain until he was 50. To judge Duran by his disgrace against Leonard II is unfair. Look at his whole career. The greatest Lightweight ever, and a little guy turning into a giant killer later in his great career.

That's why you often hear the word Legendary next to Duran's name, not Leonards.

Duran was past his prime but he did beat Leonard in the first fight. Duran is a top 5 P4P fighter of all time and as many know best lightweight EVA!

Exactamundo, Silencio. :)

He was invincible at 135...went up and did some more damage at 147, 154...in a warpath that has the likes of Moore & Barkley on the gutter when everyone thought he was already past his prime.

Duran is my favorite fighter of all time so I admit I am biased, however facts are stubborn things biased or not so here goes. Someone earlier implied that Duran did not beat up Leonard in the first fight. Wrong. I saw the fight closed circuit at the time, and even Leonards manager knew it was over after about the third round when Duran was having his way and hurting Leonard. After the fight I remember Leonard went on a well deserved vacation with his wife and was contemplating quitting boxing because his body, ribs hurt so much from Duran's punches. This Duran, a natural LIGHTWEIGHT fighting at WELTERWEIGHT at 30 years old. People forget that at the time, before the first fight many were saying Duran was past his prime. There was even a rumor that that Duran had heart problems. Well he wasn't. He beat the crap out of Leonard for 15 rounds and didn't let up. Leonard too fought like the champion he was and is, and I respect him very much. The fight was close only on the cards.

Don't confuse the Duran in the second fight or third with Duran of the first fight. Duran beat Leonard. Duran was hardly marked at all after the first fight, and Leonard was swollen all over, all you need to do is see the tape of the fight.

And as for Duran never being the same again after the second fight, well for God's sake he only knocked out highly regarded Davey Moore at Junior Middle for the title when everyone thought he would be killed. He then very nearly took a decision from Marvin Hagler!!! Duran was ahead I believe after 13 rounds. This is back when Hagler was a machine. Then at 37 years old after almost being decapitated by Hearns, he beats the man who beat the man, the awesome Iran Barkley in the fight of the year.

He continued to fight and entertain until he was 50. To judge Duran by his disgrace against Leonard II is unfair. Look at his whole career. The greatest Lightweight ever, and a little guy turning into a giant killer later in his great career.

That's why you often hear the word Legendary next to Duran's name, not Leonards.

I also saw the first (and second) Leonard/Duran fight on closed Circuit tv and I must disagree with the assertion that Duran beat the crap out of Ray for 15 rounds. The fight I saw went back and forth, and that was with leonard standing toe to toe with Duran. I think Leonard proved to a lot of people that night that he was more than just the pitty pat runner that his critics claimed he was.

I whole heartedly agree with the assertion that Duran was the greatest lightweight ever. And an all time p4p great. He also had the impressive victory over Barkley which came well after the second leonard fight. On the other hand he lost to Benitez, Hearns and Hagler, all of whom Ray defeated.

And I can't disagree strongly enough with the suggestion that Duran "continued to fight and entertain until he was 50." What the heck was so entertaining about watching an old, fat, and slow duran fight tomato cans in Mississippi and West Virginia?

IMO Duran was the greatest at 135. Not to say that, he would beat SRL everytime. Im another Duran fan so I'm going with Duran, but I can see SRL out-boxing Duran too.
Btw, those saying Duran completely pounded SRL in the first fight are WRONG. It was a war, and Duran walked away with a well-deserved UD, though it could have gone SRL way aswell.

Had Sugar Ray fought his kind of fight in the 1st meeting with Duran he would have won that one easily. He wanted to prove to everyone - including Duran - that they were all wrong when conventional wisdom said he was going to run from Duran - he didn't - instead he went toe to toe fighting Durans' style of fighting and almost won it anyway!

In the second fight, he showed the world AND Duran that he was a far better boxer with way faster footwork and Duran couldn't lay a glove on him, Duran got so frustrated he just quit....
:cool:

the first fight duran beat srl easy, and the second duran walked:? thats just duran, you never knew what duran was going to turn up, roberto duran in his prime beat a srl in is prime, so all this crap about srl being the better boxer is just crap.duran was a light wieght, he moved up to fight srl. and beat him he did ::) and the 3rd fight was allways going to be poor two old men

and :) srl was the golden boy of the good old usa. thay hated there little man getting a good beating off duran, if that fight was in any other country buran would of won on a much better points srl was a great boxer but duran is a legand,

"Duran not have a chance to beat Leonard, He beat him once.



The result in the rematch was due to several factors that did hinder Duran's performance.

The first being that the Leonard camp made sure that Duran wouldn't be able to train more then three weeks to get ready for the rematch.

How did they do this. They pretended to have no intrest in a rematch and then came to Duran offering him a huge percentage, I tink the purse split was like 75-25. Of course Leonard was not concerned about the money in this fight. He was just trying to rebuild his name so there would be bigger paydays in the future.

Anyway, Duran of course accepted the offer, the catch being that the fight was going to take place three weeks after Duran was notified of it. The Leonard camp had been planning this for a long time and Leonard was in peak condition comming in.

Another factor is that "Hands of Stone" was not one to stay in shape and watch what he ate when he didn't have too. On top of that, this Duran was realtivly new to making weight at the welterweight divsion so he really did train to fight Leonard in the rematch during those three weeks, He trained to make weight.


Watch Duran's first fight with Leonard and then the rematch. You can tell he's not there to fight in the rematch. It doesn't look like Duran is at all prepared and it cost him."



Man I wish I would have been on this board when this guy posted this completely false post. 3 weeks to train, and people on here accepeted this line of BS. Duran trained for 2 months...Leonard and his people for 1 week...1 Week were stating Ray was going to retire, then he went to Hawaii and immediately demanded a rematch. Duran did blow up between fights, but this was never the excuse for his previous 71 fights, now was it?

Please I make me laugh when I stroll throught boards and people post false myths as if they were facts, or if they even researched it.......

Please people this is fun debat and all, but please test what people post. You can test me all you want....My reference regarding durans's training etc..is from Durans own mouth...

Hands of Stone...his book. I suggest you all get it for christmas, it is good reading. He is honest and dispells many of the mythes that many try to make, about the Leonard Duran 2nd fight. His own corner admits that if they had to box Ray, even in the 1st fight no matter what shape duran came in that Duran would lose. That is why they where sooooo upset that Padilla was the Referee, he had a history of not allowing in fighting,,,but in this fight he didnt do anything but slap the gloves when they clinched. (Score one for Duran team). Then 2ndly Duran got inside Ray's head and beat Leonard mentally before the fight started and won the battle of Styles...as Leonard elected to go toe to toe, instead boxing which the Duran team had to be thrilled to hear a Dundee say 2 nigts before the fight that Leonrd was going to go right after Duran and stop him possibly in the 1st round by definatley by the 4th round. (Score 2 for Duran)

No Duran lost the 2nd fight because Ray simply was a better man that night, and Ray did a couple of things differntly.

1. If you look at the 1st fight Duran shows how great defensivly he was, as Ray was throwing wild looping over hand rights and duran ducked underneath it and got insde ray. The 2nd fight starting with Round 2, every time Duran rushed in, he met upper cuts and hooks vs overhand rights....

2. The most obvious reason ..Leonard used movement, and Duran had problems with this in round 1 5-6 of the first fight too...(many people dont realize this, but go look for yourself) however in the 1st fight leonard was able to outbox duran when he boxed, but for the most part he elected to go toe to toe...In this 2nd fight, Leonrd for the most part boxed, and just like the 1at fight when they went toe to toe, I think round 4 or 5,,Duran won,by having Ray on the ropes.. Leonard simply used the right strategy this time.

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duran thew the fight for the cash and if you dont know that your stupid

proof that he threw the fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jq4-BFz9vI

They are both 1-1 against each other. So we can avoid this impossible argument by considering that they were both great and well matched against each other. I respect them both. Duran slightly greater status IMO because of his other accomplishments in the ring. But, this is subject to debate.

they are 1-1 against each other...Hmmm I think you better check your facts...and another myth...Duran through the fight for money....LOL good one...

They are both 1-1 against each other. So we can avoid this impossible argument by considering that they were both great and well matched against each other. I respect them both. Duran slightly greater status IMO because of his other accomplishments in the ring. But, this is subject to debate.

Although Duran is GOD ! SRL did beat him twice out of the 3 fights they had !

1989-12-07 - SRL - UD
1980-11-25 - SRL - TKO
1980-06-20 - DURAN - UD

And the fight Ray lost was by 4 points spread over 3 cards....1 round scored differently Ray is 3-0 versus Duran....Fighting willingly durans style of fight....

And the fight Ray lost was by 4 points spread over 3 cards....1 round scored differently Ray is 3-0 versus Duran....Fighting willingly durans style of fight....

**** me you cant just alter the history books, Duran beat him full stop !

Not sure what your crying about,,,that is fact...

Not sure what your crying about,,,that is fact...

No fact is Duran beat SRL, not he could of, would of ,should of ,.....

Duran beat Ray..and lost twice...quitting..Not he could should of would he quit..and also got his ass handed to him repeatedly...REPEATEDLY,,whenvever he stepped up against the big dogs.

Facts my friends..and also Duran Resume is full of 0-3 type of fighters.....Fact my friend.

Duran beat Ray..and lost twice...quitting..Not he could should of would he quit..and also got his ass handed to him repeatedly...REPEATEDLY,,whenvever he stepped up against the big dogs.

Facts my friends..and also Duran Resume is full of 0-3 type of fighters.....Fact my friend.You again?! Duran's 1-2 record against Leonard doesn't matter. In the grand scheme of things, Sugar Ray Leonard is a boxing icon, Roberto Durán is a boxing legend.

Here's a general team sport analogy: It doesn't matter if a team loses the season series against a given rival, as long as it wins the world championship. Conversely, it doesn't matter that Duran lost the trilogy against leonard, as long as he is ranked among boxing's elite, unlike Leonard.

Think Big Picture
http://www.pugilistica.com/Feb_July_2005/BoxingIllFeb1984RobertoDuran.JPG

The caption on the bottom of the magazine cover says it all...

Duran in his prime (i.e. at lightweight) was a monster. Hard to imagine anyone taking him at that weight (Sanchez maybe?).

Esteban De Jesus did...

Duran beat Ray..and lost twice...quitting..Not he could should of would he quit..and also got his ass handed to him repeatedly...REPEATEDLY,,whenvever he stepped up against the big dogs.

Facts my friends..and also Duran Resume is full of 0-3 type of fighters.....Fact my friend.
wpink, are you still running down Duran? What's the deal with you? You're getting more obsessive than Dios used to be with his rantings. Yes he won the first fight against Leonard. Had to quit in the second fight because of stomach cramps. And lost again to Leonard when he was damn near 40 years old. This 3rd fight against Leonard occured after Duran was way out of his prime. The main point is that in his prime against Leonard in his prime, Duran beat Leonard fair and square. I know you idolize Leonard, but there's nothing you can do about the facts.

Duran started his professional career at 118 lbs and eventually won the middleweight title. (No way Leonard can make a similar claim) That's amazing. It's like Pacquiao winning the middleweight championship. And he did it at age 38 by beating Iran Barkley (who destroyed Tommy Hearns twice). Not only that he was the first man ever to take HAGLER the distance and almost won that fight on points.

Here are a few more facts about your favorite boxer:

In 2002, he was chosen by The Ring Magazine to be the 5th greatest fighter of the last 80 years. He held world titles at four different weights - lightweight (1972-79), welterweight (1980), junior middleweight (1983-84) and middleweight (1989). He was also the only boxer to have fought in five different decades.

He finally retired in January 2002 at age 50 (having previously retired in 1998) with a professional record of 120 fights, 104 wins with 69 KOs.

Duran was simply one of the greats ever to step into the ring.

Wiley Hyena- your post about shows that you flat out do not know the facts behind boxing and that anything Duran does you make excuses for, and lose major crediblity.

Since you appear to be such a major Duran fan, and whin about 'My fighter quit because his tummy hurt",,,,Wow.. I encourage you to purchase Durans autobiagraphy where in it...HIS OWN AUTOBIAGRAPHY, HIS OWN WORDS..PAGE 204...GO TO BARNES AND NOBLES IF YOU YOU DONT HAVE IT, AND EITHER BUY IT, OR READ THAT ENTIRE CHAPTER DEVOTED TO HIS TANGLES WITH SUGAR RAY LEONARD, AND MOST NOTABLE PAGE 202-205.....

Duran admits he NEVER had a single cramp. Not a one. That is not what forced him to quit, it was a made up theory buy a person in Durans camp shortly after the fight. However, Duran quit because Leonard did not fight him toe to toe. His exact words when he quit was not NO MAS, it was "No quiero pelear con el payaso". which means I do not want to fight with this clown.
Those are your facts my friend. When you get on here to try to tell others facts about your man, please get them right. Duran simply could not beat leonard if he boxed, his corner knew that even in the 1st fight (page 185) that if padilla did not let duran hold and maul..that Duran would lose. That is why they were very scared of having Padilla referee.

"Yes he won the first fight against Leonard. Had to quit in the second fight because of stomach cramps. And lost again to Leonard when he was damn near 40 years old. This 3rd fight against Leonard occured after Duran was way out of his prime. The main point is that in his prime against Leonard in his prime, Duran beat Leonard fair and square. I know you idolize Leonard, but there's nothing you can do about the facts"

Another false statement included in this paragraph that begs addressing, and shows how your review of the Leonard-Duran saga is flawed, and not accepted by anyone but Duran fans.

1. Duran for the 1st fight had to train down form 180+ pounds. Was partying on a place called 5th street gym in Miami, and ALWAYS before fights indulges until roughly 2 months before the fight. page 178. The same for fight 1, and the same for fight 2,which he had to train down from 188 vs 183 for the 1st fight.... Duran always blew up between fights, nothing new for the leoinard fights, most notably the 2nd fight. Major flawed theory. IN fact now he only had to get down to 147 vs 135 before.

2. Duran was 29 YRS 4 DAYS FOR THE FIRST FIGHT. IN his prime...and according you to,, he was out of his prime at 29 YEARS 5 MONTHS 9 DAYS, for the 2nd fight. Hmmmmm lot of aging going on in 5 months according to you.WOW..........Every other fighter in history is judged by up to at least age 31...99% judged up to around age 34. I say at least 31 because of ERik Morales...Also, there is no disputing that he was his very very best at 135,however every other fighter is judged on how they fare at the weight classes north. Sugar Ray Robinson, Leonad, Sugar shane, Mayweather, Armstrong...DLH, Roy jones..So Duran should be judged the same.. However, according to you, Duran somehow was out of his prime, and should not be held accountable because he was at welterwieght, and he tummy cramps...Wow...very very false, weak, and even Duran does not support this false excuse.

3. There is no debate on Duran Greatness. However, I merely point out that Duran has accomplished all the titles you point out, but while at 135 in ammasing the 70 wins, his resume was filled with 40 or so fights that fighters like Ray Leonard, Mayweather, etc...they do not fight these types of fighters with records of 0-3 once they are a champion. or fighters with 0-0 records when they are starting their trade. Duran did,but Duran fans,,the same ones that cry that mayweather is fighting bums,or ducking somebody,,,refuse to admit that Duran as a champion fought some of the worst fighters (recordwise) ever. I mean ever. If you look at Boxrec...those are facts, and I challenge you to get a top champion and produce not 20 fightrs like duran had, but 1-2 fighters with a record of 1-3,,,after that champion got the belt. You will not address it, or accept the challlenge as no other duran fan has, because it shows that there was some credible issues with 20+ fights that duran had after he became champion.

I concede he is a top 10 of all time, and this i have always said, never argued, but my friend you go on subjective reasoning, which is always opininon and anyone can say I think Durna is the best ever...etc.. However what you will not accept is facts, like Leonard and duran are 1-1 during peak years...The scoring was as close as close can be in the 1st fight, and that Duran quit the 2nd fight, when that is unexcusible, and he was losing by the way. Finally you and others will not discuss his resume,when it is there for the world to see....including 4 ass whippings before the age of 34...So once again get your facts straight son.. I did say facts not opinion, cuz we are all entitled to those, no matter how biased or based on false stuff they are.

I look at facts...FACTS. And the facts support clearly duran as a top fighter of all time, but also shows he was not this god like figure that you and others try to paint him to be. He had issues with certain styles, like all fighters. He lost fights fair and square, and Duran fans need to stop trying to minimize the accomplishments of every fighter duran faced that night, and accept duran lost ot a better man that night. Duran, had a fantastic record at lightweight, any one that has 70 victories vs 1 loss is all timer, but the fact is 20+ fights were vs fighters he should not have been in the ring with. If you dont want to judge the fights Duran had when he was 38 or so, which a gree with, then why are you giving him credit for fighting a fighter who is 1-3, once he was a champion.....Duran In my book is 1 notch below Leonard, and that is how I see it..Both top 10..and to the fella that says Duran is among boxing elite, and leonard isnt...Hmmmm Leonard is universaly accepted as generally at top 10-20 fighter. I think when you have million plus fighters to ever lace up gloves.....hmmm that places them both in the elite status....Dont you?

...Duran In my book is 1 notch below Leonard, and that is how I see it..Both top 10..and to the fella that says Duran is among boxing elite, and leonard isnt...Hmmmm Leonard is universaly accepted as generally at top 10-20 fighter. I think when you have million plus fighters to ever lace up gloves.....hmmm that places them both in the elite status....Dont you?You have written more words on this forum detracting from the legend of Roberto Durán than Christian Giudice wrote in his book Hands of Stone about him, which (contrary to your claim) is not an AUTObiography.

I am that "fella" who said that Duran is among boxing's elite (top 10) and Leonard isn't. Your anti-Durán obsession will never alter that fact. Get a life!

Thank-You WPink1 - I was wondering if after reading all this B.S. if I was ever going to come across anyone who would dispute the "No Mas"... It's about time. Karma for you...

Duran never uttered the words "No Mas"... read this...

"Next, Leonard went back to the Olympic Stadium in Montreal to defend his title against former lightweight champion Roberto Duran, in the first superfight of the 1980s. In a long, grueling contest, mostly fought against the ropes or in corners, the more experienced Duran outmauled Leonard and captured a close, but unanimous decision. Leonard surprised many observers by standing flat-footed with the Panamanian slugger.

Their rematch was held in travis New Orleans on November 25, 1980. This time around, Leonard used far more lateral movement and jabs, staying off the ropes whenever possible. In round 7, Leonard taunted Duran, dropping his arms and winding up with a bolo punch. Neither fighter had absorbed much punishment, but Leonard had a narrow lead on all three scorecards after 7 rounds. In round 8, Duran turned around, walked to his corner and gave up. Although Duran is widely remembered for the now famous words, "no más," he never actually said them. It was actually commentator Howard Cosell who uttered the phrase. Regardless, the sports world was stunned by Duran's actions. The controversy regarding this bout and Duran's motivation for quitting continues to this day. However, in an interview with ESPN, Duran had stated that he had started to get stomach cramps and felt it better to quit now than suffer through it."

I'm not arguing who was better, I'm just shocked that people still use the term No Mas to this day...

Wow...this guy just doenst give up. He doesnt realize how ignorant he sounds.....Duran is not a writer, so sorry he did not write it..How about you get the book first..2ndly..."Journalist Christian Giudice has written the definitive story on Duran's extraordinary life in and out of the ring. He wrote this from 1st interviews with Duran, his family, and his closest friends, and scores of opponents to seperate the truth from the myth and get to the heart of one of the most intriguing sports stars of modern times"..... This is on the front inside sleeve, so you other attempt at creating an excuse to someone keep the myths alive is again slapped down by FACTS>>>

In fact what fact have you posted, that either I have not already posted or is not part of this debate. You and other Duran fans are a joke. You want to force your view on every one that Duran is a god. Any factual information posted you have an excuse for, even now Durans own words..your trying to say it is not valid, relevant, credible or whatever your point is...

I have repeatedly ask you all to address the 20+ fights Duran has have vs fighters with records that are univerally considered Horrible at 0-3 or 10-11 at best...and yet he fought them as a champ..Why not discuss that. I guess it is ok to count these fights as Duran was picking on some bum who should not be in the ring with him, but it is not okay to count the fight he had vs Leonard in 89 or better yet. It is ok to rant and rave on here about Duran beating leonad in June of 1980, but not count the fight that Duran had in Nov of 1980...Somehow it seems as if you all simply dont get it, or refuse to try.

I am very glad that Duran came out and echoed what Ray Arcel said the day of the rematch, that there was no cramps. As duran groupies would forever try to cry that their man had a tummy ache...which in iteslf shows just how weak and crybabies these groupies are. To cry and say someone had cramps, so it is a reason for him to quit and give the other man his props is flat out showing your ignorance, whinyiesm, and shows the world what we are looking. Since we are on the toppic of looking at....did you see anywhere in the rematch where duran showed visable signs of a cramp...was him holding his stomach when he quit, and since Duran himself said there was cramps, along with video footage to support their was not cramp, along wth his trainer who was inside the ring saying duran never complained to him....I guess now your best effort is to discredit he book that contains the Truth, and effect discredit Duran who shared the truth with the author....Either way you sound ignorant, espeically when your debating with someone who says Duran is an all time great top 10, and your simply tyring to force someone into ranking him higher...Wont happen son. He is lucky he gets top 10, based on the large amount of Michae jackson type of fighters he fought at lightweight....

Johnny blazz...these duran nuthuggers will say duran cramps in his stomach, even if he didnt have a stomach....They simply do not respect facts, and swing on Duran nuts as if he is the 2nd coming. They say he was unbeatable at lightweight..hmmmm didnt he have a loss? They give credit for a fight in june of 1980 but none for nov of the same year...and they try to say he blew up for the first fight, but dont realize or accept he blew up before every fight, as many fighters do...I even heard someone say he only had 3 weeks to train for this fight...Wow....When the truth is he had 2 months as he always does.

I would think that in a book about duran fased off of info from duran..it would be pro duran...and If this is from Duran's own mouth, and he states there was no cramps, that he may have had to lose 5 additonal pounds form the 2nd fight over the 1st fight, that leonard was not a man and was a clown that is how he beat him,,,It seems to me the writing is on the wall.

People believe he sold out, that fight.

In Panama where is loved the most he was considered a sell-out and couldnt set foot there for a few years.

Many people trying to make a documentary on Duran and that Fight have said that Duran wants a lot of money so he can protect himself of the legal problems what would arise from him revealing the actual truth about the rematch. (sell out)


:lol1: 1:39


"NO MAS.."

LMAO...



QUITTER..!!!!

It's nothing you can say, We got it on TAPE....

THE PUnk Mutha****a QUIT... it's on the TAPE...
I AM NOT MAKING THIS **** UP...

IT'S RIGHT HERE..
HE IS A ****ING COWARD..!!

Look at the Tape..!!!

:boxing:

That is the HISTORY of Duran right there...

QUITTING IN HIS BIGGEST FIGHT....


Duran is a Clown..FOR QUITTING...
LOL
:lol1:

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"NO MAS":gay:

THREAD CLOSED...!!!

REAL FIGHTERS DONT QUIT













"NO MAS" PART 1


EVERYBODY WATCH THE VIDEO..... HERE IS SOME MORE PROOF...!!
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"NO MAS" PART 2


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QUITTER..!!!!

It's nothing you can say, We got it on TAPE....


FROM DURAN AND DURAN TRAINER HIMSELF...!!!


HE QUIT....PLAN AND SIMPLE...