I dont understand why a lot of people compare mike to joe, they are 2 totally different fighters. i dont hate on frazier, in fact he's one of my favourite fighters but i dont see him getting past mike

frazier's only best weapon was the left hook, no jab, good right, but nothing flashy or special. Amazing conditioning, TOPS

Mike was a great puncher, much better hitter than joe. he showed his power against bigger men.
Mike is not given credit for his jab, when in fact he used to set up a lot of stuff with his jab, and outjabbed a 6'5 Tony Tucker who was a great boxer with a lot more reach

tyson could go to the body just as good as frazier did, and while mike's stamina might not have been equal to joes', he didnt tire early and was always on the attack

also while some may point out that their defense was similar, i disagree completely. Mike used to bob and weave side to side, while joe was all over the place, and moving his head forward, in other words open to uppercuts

aside from foreman joe havent been in there with harder punchers. Oscar Bonavena was a pretty good and awkward puncher, but no where close to what foreman or tyson were. and oscar dropped frazier twice in their first fight. Bob foster was a great left hooker, but while he may have been taller and longer, he was a smaller man, and the fight ended after 2 rounds.

i see tysona catching joe at any point with an uppecut or any other hard punch, and i see joe getting in trouble. And tyson was a great finisher.

the only thing that might make a difference in this fight is Joe's will and determination

Agree or Disagree?

I dont know whod disagree with you on this, frazier was tough though and would get up everytime like he did with foreman. It'd be early stoppage.

I agree. Mike was a brutal puncher and Frazier struggled against punchers (Foreman). I'll go as far as to say Frazier had a better left hook.
Mike Tyson TKO 11.

Tyson faced two close to prime fighters that were on Frazier's level, Holyfield and Lewis. He was stopped in his peak prime by a journeyman, Buster Douglas, that couldn't have carried Frazier's jockstrap. Frazier wouldn't have been afraid of Mike and Douglas and Holyfield proved that Mike wasn't worth a damn against anyone that stood up to him. Frazier by late TKO or UD.

Tyson IMO should be Compared more To Dempsey than any other fighter

as for the fight its a toss up IMO

Tyson faced two close to prime fighters that were on Frazier's level, Holyfield and Lewis. He was stopped in his peak prime by a journeyman, Buster Douglas, that couldn't have carried Frazier's jockstrap. Frazier wouldn't have been afraid of Mike and Douglas and Holyfield proved that Mike wasn't worth a damn against anyone that stood up to him. Frazier by late TKO or UD.
all of those fighters you speak of were bigger than frazier, and had completely different styles. and mike was nowhere near his prime when he fought them

and buster douglas was no journeyman, that's a common mistake made by people who only saw buster in the tyson and holyfield fights. in truth douglas was a very talented heavyweight who was very lazy. on his best day his jab was as good as holmes or listons. ive seen other fights with buster where he dropped opponents with jabs

douglas who fought tyson that night would have presented a lot of danger to other great heavyweight fighters. he was no where the slob everyone claims him to be. the tyson that lost to douglas didnt loose to a bum or a journeyman, remember that.

Jim Jefferies is clearly a Tyson hater^

Lennox lewis was 6'5 248 lbs....that's bigger than foreman, Tyson was washed up...even Lewis said Tyson was washed up.

Tyson may have lost to Foreman but he would have busted up Frazier no doubt.

Tyson KO Frazier in 1-3 rounds.

A point I should make about Tyson's defense..
Tyson would wait for an opponent to punch, weave and hit them at the same time..causing them to run into his punch, thus having more effect. Frazier would try and move a lot to make him harder to hit. There is a difference.

I should also Make the point that Tyson was much more agile on his feet and could hit harder with both hands.

Jim Jefferies is clearly a Tyson hater^

Lennox lewis was 6'5 248 lbs....that's bigger than foreman, Tyson was washed up...even Lewis said Tyson was washed up.

Tyson may have lost to Foreman but he would have busted up Frazier no doubt.

Tyson KO Frazier in 1-3 rounds.

A point I should make about Tyson's defense..
Tyson would wait for an opponent to punch, weave and hit them at the same time..causing them to run into his punch, thus having more effect. Frazier would try and move a lot to make him harder to hit. There is a difference.

I should also Make the point that Tyson was much more agile on his feet and could hit harder with both hands. Yes, good observation. Kinda like he threw a jab and momentairly weave his upper body and head to the left side avoiding a counter punch.

Tough call. It is my opinion that Tyson defense, speed, power and tenacity either stops frazier early, or hurts him and has the fight his way for the 1st 4-5 rounds. Then if frazier survives, he will start making a chopping block of Tyson.

However if Ali had Frazeir in trouble, you can best believe the power the speed the tenacity that Tyson is going to bring to table would cause Frazier major problems.

Tyson has some advantages over Frazier, while Frazier has some over Tyson.

Frazier didn't seem to get as frustrated and impatient as Tyson did. He was more consistent with his head movement, even in long grueling fights fought at a fast pace, like the first and third Ali fights. Frazier's stamina was better, and that's not a knock on Tyson.

Tyson had quicker hands, better jab, better combos, better variety of punches, hit harder, etc..

I don't like the style matchup for Frazier. While Frazier was not weak-chinned, he showed some real vulnerability in the opening rounds by being dropped twice by Bonavena, rocked in round 2 by Ali, and splattered by Foreman. Furthermore, the punches Tyson were most vulnerable to were not Frazier specialties. The best punches against Tyson were the uppercut and jab (from taller guys with long reaches).

If Frazier makes it out of the first few rounds and makes it a war of attrition, then I can see him winning. He doesn't get as frustrated and impatient and has better stamina. But that's a big if.

I think Tyson catches Frazier with the uppercut and other shots, early and often, and wins via TKO.

Tyson could catch Frazier early because Frazier is a naturally slow starter whereas Tyson is a very fast fighter, but if Frazier can weather the early storm, he could beat Tyson.

It's not like Tyson's skills diminished in late rounds, I can't see him losing to Frazier even if it went the distance. Tyson never tired that badly.

I think Frazier would have a much better chance if the fight got into the late rounds especially if it's a 15 round fight and while not tiring badly, Tyson does slow down as the fight wears on. But this is of course assuming Frazier gets past the early rounds.

I think Frazier would have a much better chance if the fight got into the late rounds especially if it's a 15 round fight and while not tiring badly, Tyson does slow down as the fight wears on. But this is of course assuming Frazier gets past the early rounds.

Which he wouldn't.

I dont understand why a lot of people compare mike to joe, they are 2 totally different fighters. i dont hate on frazier, in fact he's one of my favourite fighters but i dont see him getting past mike

frazier's only best weapon was the left hook, no jab, good right, but nothing flashy or special. Amazing conditioning, TOPS

Mike was a great puncher, much better hitter than joe. he showed his power against bigger men.
Mike is not given credit for his jab, when in fact he used to set up a lot of stuff with his jab, and outjabbed a 6'5 Tony Tucker who was a great boxer with a lot more reach

tyson could go to the body just as good as frazier did, and while mike's stamina might not have been equal to joes', he didnt tire early and was always on the attack

also while some may point out that their defense was similar, i disagree completely. Mike used to bob and weave side to side, while joe was all over the place, and moving his head forward, in other words open to uppercuts

aside from foreman joe havent been in there with harder punchers. Oscar Bonavena was a pretty good and awkward puncher, but no where close to what foreman or tyson were. and oscar dropped frazier twice in their first fight. Bob foster was a great left hooker, but while he may have been taller and longer, he was a smaller man, and the fight ended after 2 rounds.

i see tysona catching joe at any point with an uppecut or any other hard punch, and i see joe getting in trouble. And tyson was a great finisher.

the only thing that might make a difference in this fight is Joe's will and determination

Agree or Disagree?

In his prime Joe Frazier could have knocked out Tyson.

Ps. They WERE two totally different fighters: Frazier was discplined in the ring and Tyson was not. Frazier was consistent in his body attack while Tyson only went to the body in spurts. Frazier had great endurance and could go 15 hard rounds without breathing heavy while Tyson gassed out after 6. I guess they really WERE two different fighters.

Poet

Some posts of mine regarding this match-up:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3013652&postcount=6
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3014934&postcount=11
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3015006&postcount=13

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Only boxer that Tyson fought who was comparable to Frazier (atleast in his use of bobbing and weaving) was a very fat Buster Mathis Jr who used bobbing and weaving to avoid Tyson's punches until he was caught with an uppercut (which in most people's opinions would be the telling punch in this fight).

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Tyson brawling with the fast but fat Tony Tubbs.

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Frazier tends to be a little underrated on these forums as people believe his only punch was the left hook.
This is not really true as shown in this fight against Quarry, Frazier sets up fast left hooks with the jab and ends the fight with a right hand that opens up a bad cut.

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Frazier using more movement here in his prime years.

Tyson faced two close to prime fighters that were on Frazier's level, Holyfield and Lewis. He was stopped in his peak prime by a journeyman, Buster Douglas, that couldn't have carried Frazier's jockstrap. Frazier wouldn't have been afraid of Mike and Douglas and Holyfield proved that Mike wasn't worth a damn against anyone that stood up to him. Frazier by late TKO or UD.

Your at your peak when you've lost interest in boxing and haven't properly trained for a fight? Just goes to show what you really know about Tyson or boxing in general. Tyson would have KO'd your idol Jeffries in the first as well, moron. I swear, you and Tunney are the ****iest posters around, and I think that video you two made was sick!!!
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In his prime Joe Frazier could have knocked out Tyson.

Ps. They WERE two totally different fighters: Frazier was discplined in the ring and Tyson was not. Frazier was consistent in his body attack while Tyson only went to the body in spurts. Frazier had great endurance and could go 15 hard rounds without breathing heavy while Tyson gassed out after 6. I guess they really WERE two different fighters.

Poet


That's about as far from the truth as it gets. There's no doubt your a Tyson hater, I've seen many delusional anti Tyson posts from you here. Funny thing is you could describe Foreman the same way you described Tyson, and we all know what Foreman did to Frazier. Think next time before try to make a point, moron!:banana::owned:

That's about as far from the truth as it gets. There's no doubt your a Tyson hater, I've seen many delusional anti Tyson posts from you here. Funny thing is you could describe Foreman the same way you described Tyson, and we all know what Foreman did to Frazier. Think next time before try to make a point, moron!:banana::owned:

Dear RossCA aka Tyson nut-sucker. Foreman did what he did to Frazier because of much longer reach; which Frazier couldn't get inside of without getting his head taken off. That does NOT apply to Tyson who's reach was SHORTER than Frazier's. Duh. Try actually KNOWING something about fighters and boxing before you open your cum dumpster and prove your lack of brain cells to all.

ps. You wouldn't know truth if it bit your ear off, or if it was busted for coke posession in Phoenix :D

Poet

Something that is grossly over looked is the fact that Frazier may have been out of shape and lacking motivation in the first Foreman fight. This is a guy who has fought around and under 200 lbs in most of his prime years and fought the best fight of his career at just 205. After the biggest win of his career, he took much more time than usual off while his weight suddenly ballooned up to 215 and over. Foreman may very well have always had the style and tools to bother Fraizer but it is food for thought. Others have cut Lewis slack for his weight against Rahman and Vitali, why not Fraizer?

Anyway, as I said before I still don't think it would be much of a stretch to compare this to Frazier/Quarry I.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruurUEyy-A0

Before fading and getting injured, Quarry's pressure and quick combinations gave Frazier trouble early. Either Tyson finishes what Quarry couldn't in the early rounds or he fades and gets stopped in the later rounds where he would be outworked considerably.

I like Frazier over Tyson in this crossover battle. A late ko for Frazier. Frazier has controlled aggression, and was known for his heart and stamina. Tyson might knock down Joe several times, but you all know Joe would get up every time. If Mike goes down, he does not get up.

Something that is grossly over looked is the fact that Frazier may have been out of shape and lacking motivation in the first Foreman fight. This is a guy who has fought around and under 200 lbs in most of his prime years and fought the best fight of his career at just 205. After the biggest win of his career, he took much more time than usual off while his weight suddenly ballooned up to 215 and over. Foreman may very well have always had the style and tools to bother Fraizer but it is food for thought. Others have cut Lewis slack for his weight against Rahman and Vitali, why not Fraizer?

Anyway, as I said before I still don't think it would be much of a stretch to compare this to Frazier/Quarry I.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruurUEyy-A0

Before fading and getting injured, Quarry's pressure and quick combinations gave Frazier trouble early. Either Tyson finishes what Quarry couldn't in the early rounds or he fades and gets stopped in the later rounds where he would be outworked considerably. are you implying that the reason frazier lost to foreman might have been joe's lack of fitness and physical preparation. Foreman is one of the, if not the hardest puncher that ever fought in the heavyweight division, frazier had a shaky chin. he's been knocked down before the foreman fight. he's shown that he could be hurt by ali's punches. anyway you cut it, shape or no shape, foreman had joe's number. if they fought 20 times foreman would beat and knock him out 20 times. and that's not pointing a finger at joe.

the rematch proved that. and while frazier might have been heavier, older, and way past his prime in that fight, the result was given as expected. i know that a lot of people say that joe's strategy in the second fight could have bought his some rounds, as it did, but sooner or later foreman would catch him, as he ultimately did. joe's youth with that strategy could have bought him 2 more extra rounds on top of it, but to no avail imo. frazier's a slow starter, but he wouldnt get going against foreman and open up like he did against other guys. the answer to that is size and punching power. joe's at his best when he exchanges, after the first fight, frazier would always think twice before exchanging with a puncher like foreman again.

joe's bobin and weavin style is tailor made for foreman who had one of the best uppercuts. tyson, dont forget, also had an excellent uppercut, especially against shorter heavyweights who leaned into it. tyson is one of the fastest starters, much faster than george, who didnt waste a lot of time either.

tyson's chin was much better than Joes', and so too is his punching power. physically going into the fight, tyson would seem to have all the advantages. i see tyson catching joe, and joe is not that hard to hit. and once the damage occurs, tyson would be all over him. next to Joe Louis, and Ray Leonard, and Ray Robinson, tyson is one of the greatest finishers. he wont try any funny stuff, he'll just try to kill him.

Good point kid, I almost forgot that Tyson was a great finisher. And nobody had a sweeter uppercut back then, than Mike. Does anybody even throw a decent uppercut nowadays?

Frazier was beaten by just two men in his whole career - Ali and Foreman.

Tyson was beaten by five different guys.

Tyson lost to the best two heavyweights of his era (Holyfield and Lewis), albeit he was past he peak. His peak was very short lived and he didn't really beat any what you could call really great fighters during his peak years, the best being an old way past his prime Larry Holmes. Also, Tyson got badly knocked out by an average fighter in his so-called prime.

The problem is no one knows when Tyson was really at his best, as there was a big problem with things upstairs with Mike.

Frazier was scared of nothing and bothered by no one, I think he would have taken everything Mike had to offer, but maybe had to suffer a knockdown along the way but I think he would have stopped Mike late on or if not get a UD. Joe's only weakness came against a big powerful swarming forward Foreman, but Tyson wasn't a 6'4 Foreman type hitter. Mike would lose out stamina wise and he became very easy to hit after the middle rounds. Mike's head went elsewhere when he came up against someone who wasn't bothered by his reputation and could match up as a bully, Frazier fits this bill perfectly.

That is pretty much what I said but plagarized....I mean put into different sounding words and other tidbits. Fact is...if we had the physical abilities that prime Mike had, I think we would be pretty much invincible. He was simply a destroyer of Heavyweights back then.

That is pretty much what I said but plagarized....I mean put into different sounding words and other tidbits. Fact is...if we had the physical abilities that prime Mike had, I think we would be pretty much invincible. He was simply a destroyer of Heavyweights back then.

A destroyer of grade B and C Heavyweights. When facing top calibre Heavyweights he either won, but didn't destroy (Tucker, Rudduck) or got destroyed (Holyfield). And none of this "Tyson was past his prime against Holyfield" either: Holyfield was past HIS prime as well.

Poet

A destroyer of grade B and C Heavyweights. When facing top calibre Heavyweights he either won, but didn't destroy (Tucker, Rudduck) or got destroyed (Holyfield). And none of this "Tyson was past his prime against Holyfield" either: Holyfield was past HIS prime as well.

Poet
Poet i've come to a conclusion about your posts. and dont take this into offense, just pointing out my view. as i see it, this is not the first post in which your expressed your hatred towards tyson. and not even on this website. ive seen your posts in ringsidereport too

but im not pointing fingers at you

i dont understand why you're not giving tyson enough credit. on his way up he did fight a few cans, but his early record was in no way stuffed with opponents like jones, morrison, marciano and many others have faced

the only legit fighter that i can think of who started facing good opposition early, is the king, Muhammad Ali

with that tyson became the youngest heavyweight champion. that's history

tyson has faced much bigger fighters in physical resemblance than Joe have. Joe ran into the first monster and got knocked out. Buster Mathis was not a stand out big fighter of that era.

tyson being a smaller man, fighting in the division that has grown quite a bit since the old days, had to overcome quite a bit. size, height, reach etc.

without any discipline he wouldnt have been able to do that

he beat a tough and durable Pinklon Thomas, whose chin was know to be granite. Tony Tucker. undefeated duva trained Tyrell Biggs, a past it holmes but who also came back to beat an undefeated ray mercer

spinks who's been with larger and bigger opponents than tyson, (that being holmes himself, and 6'5 240 Gerry Cooney) and in his day was a splendid light heavy. Bruno twice, who gave lennox a hard time. Tony Tubbs who came back with good effort against Bowe, and fared much better against a 6'5 fighter than he did against tyson. How about Carl Williams, Alex Stewart, donovan ruddock?

list goes on and on. it's amazing how you find little perks in tyson's record to downgrade him. i truly find it silly and immature Poet

holyfield was past his prime when he fought tyson, but he went on to have more better fights and almost earning a decision in the second lewis fight, what does that say about Lennox then?

also evander didnt sit in prison for 3 and a half years. when mike came out he was a different fighter. no uppercut, single punches, no more combinations. basically a hard punching head hunter. Fighters age differently, mike aged quicker than holyfield did. If they were on the same level, than george was a super freak who aged much later than all of them.

it's easy to downgrade tyson's legacy because of what happened in his personal life, and it makes it easier for people, like yourself, to point their fingers, which you have also done as ive seen. But mike was never stupid or wreckless in the ring.

i hope one day you can be reasonable enough and give mike some credit without taking into account the personal bull**** which is errelevant in evaluating his ring accomplishments. Bottomline you being too hard on tyson, and you probably dont even know it.

PS in case you didnt know Frazier, years after his career was over, also got physical with his girlfriend who had bruises on her face when the poilice report came in

Foreman by his own addmission liked to beat up women and intimidate them. maybe you'd say this is all is not as bad as raping someone, but that's debatable. ive never believed that tyson raped anyone, he might have gotten physical with her, but everyone knew her financial angle all along. maybe there was something, but it was blown out of proportions

but to not to call tyson a special fighter, and say he didnt have heart, is redicilous.

Poet i've come to a conclusion about your posts. and dont take this into offense, just pointing out my view. as i see it, this is not the first post in which your expressed your hatred towards tyson. and not even on this website. ive seen your posts in ringsidereport too

but im not pointing fingers at you

i dont understand why you're not giving tyson enough credit. on his way up he did fight a few cans, but his early record was in no way stuffed with opponents like jones, morrison, marciano and many others have faced

the only legit fighter that i can think of who started facing good opposition early, is the king, Muhammad Ali

with that tyson became the youngest heavyweight champion. that's history

tyson has faced much bigger fighters in physical resemblance than Joe have. Joe ran into the first monster and got knocked out. Buster Mathis was not a stand out big fighter of that era.

tyson being a smaller man, fighting in the division that has grown quite a bit since the old days, had to overcome quite a bit. size, height, reach etc.

without any discipline he wouldnt have been able to do that

he beat a tough and durable Pinklon Thomas, whose chin was know to be granite. Tony Tucker. undefeated duva trained Tyrell Biggs, a past it holmes but who also came back to beat an undefeated ray mercer

spinks who's been with larger and bigger opponents than tyson, (that being holmes himself, and 6'5 240 Gerry Cooney) and in his day was a splendid light heavy. Bruno twice, who gave lennox a hard time. Tony Tubbs who came back with good effort against Bowe, and fared much better against a 6'5 fighter than he did against tyson. How about Carl Williams, Alex Stewart, donovan ruddock?

list goes on and on. it's amazing how you find little perks in tyson's record to downgrade him. i truly find it silly and immature Poet

holyfield was past his prime when he fought tyson, but he went on to have more better fights and almost earning a decision in the second lewis fight, what does that say about Lennox then?

also evander didnt sit in prison for 3 and a half years. when mike came out he was a different fighter. no uppercut, single punches, no more combinations. basically a hard punching head hunter. Fighters age differently, mike aged quicker than holyfield did. If they were on the same level, than george was a super freak who aged much later than all of them.

it's easy to downgrade tyson's legacy because of what happened in his personal life, and it makes it easier for people, like yourself, to point their fingers, which you have also done as ive seen. But mike was never stupid or wreckless in the ring.

i hope one day you can be reasonable enough and give mike some credit without taking into account the personal bull**** which is errelevant in evaluating his ring accomplishments. Bottomline you being too hard on tyson, and you probably dont even know it.

PS in case you didnt know Frazier, years after his career was over, also got physical with his girlfriend who had bruises on her face when the poilice report came in

Foreman by his own addmission liked to beat up women and intimidate them. maybe you'd say this is all is not as bad as raping someone, but that's debatable. ive never believed that tyson raped anyone, he might have gotten physical with her, but everyone knew her financial angle all along. maybe there was something, but it was blown out of proportions

but to not to call tyson a special fighter, and say he didnt have heart, is redicilous.

The problem with Tyson's record isn't that he didn't face top opposition early, it's that he didn't face top opposition period. The first time Tyson faced a top rank fighter it was Evander Holyfield and Tyson LOST. By way of comparison I'm just as critical of the strength of Marciano's record: He didn't face top-tier opposition either. The ATGs on Marciano's record were all past prime and, in the case of Louis, at the end of their string.

Now, does that mean that I don't think Tyson is a good fighter? No. I consider him a near great, just not top 10 ATG. I think he's consistently over-rated by people who started watching boxing in the 80s. I also think he's over-rated by a lot of fight fans in general because they ALWAYS over-rate fighters who generate a lot of offense: Confusing a fighter's entertainment value with ring greatness. Far from hating Tyson on a personal level, he's probably the only fighter or former fighter I'd like to sit down with over a cup of coffee and watch old fights with. Why? Because he's about the only one who could talk intelligently about great fighters and great fights of the past. Simple. I've made posts in these forums before on that subject. The point is my beef has NEVER been with Tyson but with the people who think Mike could walk on water. Those types of fans will always find my bullseye on them.

Poet

Arguing about Mike Tyson with someone who has Tyson as his avatar?

I wonder how this will go...

In his prime Tyson could kill anyone.

Tough call. It is my opinion that Tyson defense, speed, power and tenacity either stops frazier early, or hurts him and has the fight his way for the 1st 4-5 rounds. Then if frazier survives, he will start making a chopping block of Tyson.

However if Ali had Frazeir in trouble, you can best believe the power the speed the tenacity that Tyson is going to bring to table would cause Frazier major problems.

yeh tyson was the best at finishin an apponent when he was hurt so in my view he would have finished fraizer off quite early. Fraizer just didnt have the chin against big punchers and good finishers. Id even go as far to say he was a better finisher than forman cos he had more variety:boxing::boxing:

Very similar boxers in many ways...but the one thing people overlook is that a prime Tyson was incredibly quick and accurate. I think this is what gives him the advantage.

In three fights I think Tyson would win two of them.

In his prime Mike Tyson could have knocked out everobody

a prime mike tyson would probably have hard time with a prime george foreman if foreman had been trained during the same era

In his prime Tyson could kill anyone.

Except he didn't and Tyson didn't beat any truely great boxers in his whole career.

Tyson would win but he'd make a meal out of it

IMO Frazier wasn't that great a boxer

Tyson would win by late stopage

For me Tyson's reach was his main weakness. I watched the Tyson-Douglass fight and I think Buster's reach was 11 inches more than Tyson's.

Tyson would win but he'd make a meal out of it

IMO Frazier wasn't that great a boxer

Tyson would win by late stopage

For me Tyson's reach was his main weakness. I watched the Tyson-Douglass fight and I think Buster's reach was 11 inches more than Tyson's.

How many Frazier fights have you seen? his fight with Ali was probably the last fight of a prime Frazier watch some of his early fights.
I think it depends on several factors first is can Frazier take the early pressure if he can get out the first 3 rounds i would give him a good chance. Frazier would also need to push Tyson back onto the ropes, Frazier was a much better inside fighter than Tyson, Tyson was very good at mid range but if Frazier gets in close and roughs him up he could break down Tyson mentally. Remember Frazier butted a lot.
I would go for a Tyson early KO or a Frazier late KO but who knows.

If Tyson dint win early Fraizer would win late

Tyson’s prime? Tyson never had a prime. People say he was past his prime when he fought Holyfield. Bull****. He was 30. That is supposed to be a boxer’s prime. The Tyson people think of as Tyson in his prime is just a young kid with more potential than any fighter we have ever seen and probably will ever see. But that is not a prime Tyson. Tyson was never the kind of fighter we see in their prime of 28-32. By then both is skills and physical ability had diminished greatly.

Now onto Frazier. First, I’m tired of people saying Frazier had a week chin. Frazier was knocked out by Foreman and only Foreman. He could take a tremendous amount of punishment in a fight. I don’t know where this week chin idea comes from. The young Tyson (I will refrain from using the word prime as that never existed) also had a very good chin.

Their styles were a lot more similar than people are giving them credit for here. I guess you have to be a southpaw to appreciate it. Tyson and Frazier were both converted lefties. As short(both were 5’11”) powerful swarmer/slugger lefties both adopted a conventional stance. I’m a southpaw and I appreciate this style because it allows us lefties to get in close without having to worry about that ****ing lead right. I will often switch to conventional to get in close against a taller fighter. Once inside the two would let loose with devastating short punches. Watch Tyson’s knockdown of Jesse Ferguson some time. He got in close switched to southpaw and let loose with his trade mark right hook to the body right uppercut combo and broke Fergusons nose. It isn’t the only time he did that either. Watch young Tyson fights that combo was his trademark and more often than not he threw it from a southpaw stance.

The two main things that separates the two fighters was their defense and their rights. Frazier used the bob and weave while the young Tyson use the peek-a-boo defense. Both are geared for shorter fighters against taller fighters but I would have to say that Frazier’s bob and weave would be more effective against Tyson than Tyson’s peek-a-boo against Frazier. I see Tyson missing and getting countered a lot. But in the end I think the fight would come down to their right hands. Frazier didn’t have a very powerful right. Like most converted lefties his right wasn’t anything to write home about. Tyson on the other hand had a devastating right hand. He was the first converted lefty to really have such a powerful right.

In the end I see this fight going to a young Tyson but only slightly. I think that in the long run Tyson’s right hand would give him the edge over Frazier who like most all converted lefties was a one hand fighter. But that is not to say that out of Frazier bob and weave the opportunity could arise for Frazier to drop Tyson with one quick left hook after a Tyson miss.

Tyson’s prime? Tyson never had a prime. People say he was past his prime when he fought Holyfield. Bull****. He was 30. That is supposed to be a boxer’s prime. The Tyson people think of as Tyson in his prime is just a young kid with more potential than any fighter we have ever seen and probably will ever see. But that is not a prime Tyson. Tyson was never the kind of fighter we see in their prime of 28-32. By then both is skills and physical ability had diminished greatly.

Now onto Frazier. First, I’m tired of people saying Frazier had a week chin. Frazier was knocked out by Foreman and only Foreman. He could take a tremendous amount of punishment in a fight. I don’t know where this week chin idea comes from. The young Tyson (I will refrain from using the word prime as that never existed) also had a very good chin.

Their styles were a lot more similar than people are giving them credit for here. I guess you have to be a southpaw to appreciate it. Tyson and Frazier were both converted lefties. As short(both were 5’11”) powerful swarmer/slugger lefties both adopted a conventional stance. I’m a southpaw and I appreciate this style because it allows us lefties to get in close without having to worry about that ****ing lead right. I will often switch to conventional to get in close against a taller fighter. Once inside the two would let loose with devastating short punches. Watch Tyson’s knockdown of Jesse Ferguson some time. He got in close switched to southpaw and let loose with his trade mark right hook to the body right uppercut combo and broke Fergusons nose. It isn’t the only time he did that either. Watch young Tyson fights that combo was his trademark and more often than not he threw it from a southpaw stance.

The two main things that separates the two fighters was their defense and their rights. Frazier used the bob and weave while the young Tyson use the peek-a-boo defense. Both are geared for shorter fighters against taller fighters but I would have to say that Frazier’s bob and weave would be more effective against Tyson than Tyson’s peek-a-boo against Frazier. I see Tyson missing and getting countered a lot. But in the end I think the fight would come down to their right hands. Frazier didn’t have a very powerful right. Like most converted lefties his right wasn’t anything to write home about. Tyson on the other hand had a devastating right hand. He was the first converted lefty to really have such a powerful right.

In the end I see this fight going to a young Tyson but only slightly. I think that in the long run Tyson’s right hand would give him the edge over Frazier who like most all converted lefties was a one hand fighter. But that is not to say that out of Frazier bob and weave the opportunity could arise for Frazier to drop Tyson with one quick left hook after a Tyson miss. you have to understand that all fighters age and enter their primes diffferently. there's no specific age when you decide to peak, only your body and the maturity level decide that for you.

still a teeneager mike was a very developed fighter.....lets leave it at that. and tyson's size and style of fighting was not meant to last him into his 30s. in fact the majority of offensive fighters burn out by the time they hit their 30s. mike's prison time didnt help either. in his 20s i would say mike had already peaked, and was at his best.

when he got older, or came out of prison (whichever you want to use) he was a different fighter. even teddy atlas, the man who hates him with all his heart, admits that mike was not the same fighter. the jab was no longer there, the uppercut was no longer there, no bodywork, just one punch at a time and headhunting. to study mike's old fights, and fights where he was 'past his prime' you can see a big difference

also tyson was not a converted southpaw. he's a naturally a right hander, i heard people say that bs before about him being a leftie, that's made up and there are no facts to support it. all his amateur fights, and pro fights mike fough right handed. he used to turn southpaw early in his fights, but only for seconds, and only in a few fights as means to confuse his opponents he was never a converted southpaw

frazier may have been dropped and knocked out by one of the hardest punchers in the history of boxing, but his chin was shaky nevertheless. i wouldnt call it horrible but no where near the chin that tyson had. frazier was also down twice against oscar bonavena, and rocked badly by quarry and ali.

Except he didn't and Tyson didn't beat any truely great boxers in his whole career.

Yea, none at all.

I agree after he out of prison he wasn't the fighter he was before. But the same was true before the he went to prison. His skills started demising as soon as he fired Rooney. There are 2 Tyson the young fighter who had the most talent we have ever seen and the headhunter. The perfect fighter he could have been never materialized. There is no prime Tyson.

I agree after he out of prison he wasn't the fighter he was before. But the same was true before the he went to prison. His skills started demising as soon as he fired Rooney. There are 2 Tyson the young fighter who had the most talent we have ever seen and the headhunter. The perfect fighter he could have been never materialized. There is no prime Tyson. i disagree with you, mike did enter his prime very early and i thought i had gone over it with you. he matured very early, and by 21 was already the unified undisputed champion. during his title reign he was at his best

when he fired rooney, the discipline wasnt there, training was a little different, and mike had personal problems, doesnt mean he was already burning out. if that was the case then he would have never been able to win title after prison. 4 years of inactivity is what ruined him and made him into a different fighter, he was also bigger and older after prison

there was a prime mike tyson

Tough one to call. Frazier was known to be a slow starter which got him in trouble with many fighters, ali rocked him, foreman KOd him and Oscar B floored him. Tyson was a very fast starter and had the majority of his knock outs in the early rounds.
Frazier tho would fight at a faster tempo than tyson in the later rounds, which is based on previous fights when tyson is most vulnerable.
Both posses the best ever left hooks in the heavyweight division, Tyson tho probably has a better jab, uppercut and right.

I would place my money on a Tyson TKO in round 3. Frazier was in trouble against Bonavena in the early rounds, and seen as Tyson was a harder hitter and a better finisher frazier wouldnt have gone much further. The uppercut would be a great tool in this fight and Tyson possesed one of the best uppercuts, definatley the best in his era (tbh i cant think atm of a better uppercut).
If however Frazier survived, he could have worked his way to a SD ( which could have gone either way). The reason im unsure on frazier KOing Tyson is that Frazier would only take control around the 6th and im not sure that would be long enough to break down tyson

tyson's chin was much better than Joes', and so too is his punching power. physically going into the fight, tyson would seem to have all the advantages. i see tyson catching joe, and joe is not that hard to hit. and once the damage occurs, tyson would be all over him. next to Joe Louis, and Ray Leonard, and Ray Robinson, tyson is one of the greatest finishers. he wont try any funny stuff, he'll just try to kill him.


I guess being knocked out 5 times in his career made his chin great huh? At best Tyson had a average chin. Look at Buster Douglas ko percentage and you will see it was pretty average. If you are going to say Tyson was past his prime against Holyfield then you can also say Holyfield was past his prime as well which is the reason Tyson paid Lennox Lewis 4 million dollars to step aside so he could fight Holyfield and still was knocked out. Lewis is also older than Tyson and known for having a shaking chin. Tyson couldnt hurt him at all and as we know your punching power doesnt just leave you because you are in your 30s. Danny Williams was and still is a complete nobody and he stopped Tyson. Dont make excuses and say Tyson hurt his knee because tons of fighters are injured while boxing and dont lose to bums. McBride a nobody took Tysons best punches and stopped Tyson.

If Joe Frazier spent his whole career fighting bums and people paid to take a dive he would of had just as much sucess as Tyson had. When ever Tyson fought somebody not controlled by Don King he lost. Besides Rocky Marciano, Dempsey and Tunney I cant think of a more overrated heavyweight in boxing history. Frazier beats him everytime.

( By the way Tyson started his career at about 205 as well but that doesnt mean that was his prime weight. Just because Frazier was 205 against Ali doesnt mean he was always that weight. Foreman came in to fights in his pime against inferior opponents weighing as low as 213. Lennox Lewis was much lighter in the earlier part of his career....infact he was in the 220's into his late 20's. Size would play no part in a Tyson Frazier battle. If anything Frazier is usually listed at 6'0 while Tyson is no taller than 5'10"

tyson's chin was much better than Joes', and so too is his punching power. physically going into the fight, tyson would seem to have all the advantages. i see tyson catching joe, and joe is not that hard to hit. and once the damage occurs, tyson would be all over him. next to Joe Louis, and Ray Leonard, and Ray Robinson, tyson is one of the greatest finishers. he wont try any funny stuff, he'll just try to kill him.


I guess being knocked out 5 times in his career made his chin great huh? At best Tyson had a average chin. Look at Buster Douglas ko percentage and you will see it was pretty average. If you are going to say Tyson was past his prime against Holyfield then you can also say Holyfield was past his prime as well which is the reason Tyson paid Lennox Lewis 4 million dollars to step aside so he could fight Holyfield and still was knocked out. Lewis is also older than Tyson and known for having a shaking chin. Tyson couldnt hurt him at all and as we know your punching power doesnt just leave you because you are in your 30s. Danny Williams was and still is a complete nobody and he stopped Tyson. Dont make excuses and say Tyson hurt his knee because tons of fighters are injured while boxing and dont lose to bums. McBride a nobody took Tysons best punches and stopped Tyson.

If Joe Frazier spent his whole career fighting bums and people paid to take a dive he would of had just as much sucess as Tyson had. When ever Tyson fought somebody not controlled by Don King he lost. Besides Rocky Marciano, Dempsey and Tunney I cant think of a more overrated heavyweight in boxing history. Frazier beats him everytime.

( By the way Tyson started his career at about 205 as well but that doesnt mean that was his prime weight. Just because Frazier was 205 against Ali doesnt mean he was always that weight. Foreman came in to fights in his pime against inferior opponents weighing as low as 213. Lennox Lewis was much lighter in the earlier part of his career....infact he was in the 220's into his late 20's. Size would play no part in a Tyson Frazier battle. If anything Frazier is usually listed at 6'0 while Tyson is no taller than 5'10"
lol probably the ****ies and most hateful post i ever read, complete bull**** you spewing son. Meh, even Poet has you on his ignore list. Tyson was only knocked out 4 times, against Kevin McBride, he retired (or quit) in his corner. All those kos, and tks came from accumilation of shots.

you comparing Tyson and holyfield's primes? WOW. Hoylfield didnt spend nearly 4 years in prison, Holyfield also continued fighting with great results challenging for belts, and fighting with likes of Lewis, Ruiz, and still is fighting. tyson's career went down hill. Lennox matured much later. You have a pretty ****ed up way of comparing primes together.

Tyson never, ever weighed 205 pounds in his pro career. At least get your facts straight. In the amateurs yes, in the pros his lightest weight was 212 pounds, and it was only once. His ideal weight was around 215 pounds.

i cant believe i replied to this stupidity

Tough one to call. Frazier was known to be a slow starter which got him in trouble with many fighters, ali rocked him, foreman KOd him and Oscar B floored him. Tyson was a very fast starter and had the majority of his knock outs in the early rounds.
Frazier tho would fight at a faster tempo than tyson in the later rounds, which is based on previous fights when tyson is most vulnerable.
Both posses the best ever left hooks in the heavyweight division, Tyson tho probably has a better jab, uppercut and right.

I would place my money on a Tyson TKO in round 3. Frazier was in trouble against Bonavena in the early rounds, and seen as Tyson was a harder hitter and a better finisher frazier wouldnt have gone much further. The uppercut would be a great tool in this fight and Tyson possesed one of the best uppercuts, definatley the best in his era (tbh i cant think atm of a better uppercut).
If however Frazier survived, he could have worked his way to a SD ( which could have gone either way). The reason im unsure on frazier KOing Tyson is that Frazier would only take control around the 6th and im not sure that would be long enough to break down tysonnice read iron man. Basically one guy was more effective early, the other guy got effective as soon as he warmed up and got into his groove. The majority of fighters who hurt Frazier did it early. I dont think that Frazier's chin was horrible but it was not his best asset.

Also thanks for mentioning Tyson's uppecut. I have always said that Tyson had one of the greatest uppecuts, no worse if not much more effective than Foreman's uppercut.

Tyson busted up Ferguson's nose with his uppercut. He also tagged Alonzo Ratliff with a finishing sequence of punches which included the uppercut in the end. Lorenzo Boyd flew half way across the ring from Tyson's uppercut. Buster Douglas also tasted it in the 8th round. He damn nearly killed Frazier's son with it. Tyson also said it was his favourite punch.

In the interview before fighting Marvis Frazier, Tyson actually said that he was gonna get him with an uppercut because when Marvis bobs and weaves he tends to bob forward, being vulnerable to a punch that comes in the upward motion.

fraizer also ducked his heard forward, there would be a good chance of tyson catching him with that punch.

i think joe had the skills and the tenacity to hang with mike until mike starts to fade and then the superbly conditioned frazier could move in for the stoppage


but then again frazier was battered senseless by foreman but i think that was just a poor style match up for frazier, in this fight both men are comparable height and weight and both used the bob and weave and were good inside fighters, frazier would outlast mike and wouldnt be afraid to stand up to him