I was thinking....Who does everybody here think are the most overated fighters of all time. I don't mean fighters who did not live up to their potential (ie Tyson, Toney, David Reid) I mean fighters that may have had or are having great careers are doing their best but you believe are given more credit than they deserve.

The first three that come to mind are:

1)Rocky Marciano- Something should be said for retiring undefeated, but his career was largely a case of being in the right place in the right time. He beat Jersey Joe Walcott for the title (already and old man) fought a past his prime Joe Louis and Archie Moore (who almost beat him) and there were no real good young up and coming heavyweights to challenge him. He was around 8-10 years prior to the rise of Ali. He also retired just in time to not have to fight Floyd Patterson. If he was boxing 5 years earlier or later, I doubt he would have been undefeated.

2)Lennox Lewis-May be the best SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT of all time. If there was a division for people of his size, but the fact of the matter was he was a good fighter beating other good people who he had 5-6 inches of height on (at least) and who were giving away 20 pounds or more in weight to. Good big man almost always beats good smaller dude. Yet he still managed to get knocked out by Oliver McCall, Hasim Rachman, and lose to Evander Holyfield on the downside of his career. (No not his first fight where he got screwed out of the decision, the second fight they said he won) He also arguably loss to Ray Mercer. Lennox is not even in my all time heavyweight top 15 maybe not even top 20. In a mediocre era of heavyweights he was only just good.

3)Oscar De La Hoya-Here's why. He has won titles in 5 weight classes true and he is an excellent boxer. But the media hype machine (and throngs of female fans) have made him out to be a better boxer than he is. Its also given him a host of questionable decisions from Whittaker to Ike Quartery, to Felix Sturm just recently. If Hop had let it go to the cards he might have set himself up for a screw job as well. He's a great fighter, but he's had a very carefully managed career that has allowed him to make the most of his oppurtunities and pad his record with impressive (on paper wins). When he's been put in front of someone of equal or better talent he's lost (Tito, Hop, Mosley) although if he hadn't run he would have beat Tito.

I'm sure there are more what do you guys think? Do you agree with my choices, who are your choices?

Warm up the firing squad.

tommy morrison was over rated. micheal grant was hyped up. pac man is overrated he needs one more big victory to have me sold

lil ole ***** tito is on his way up there, why? his fans cant STFU about the same sh*t

I think Marciano is underrated because everyone thinks his so overrated. Kind of like Ricardo Lopez.

Lewis and DLH are two of the most decorated boxers of any era. Did you just try and say DLH "Padded his record"? may I ask against who? I dont care if you dont like him, but anyone who questions DLH's level of competion is only going to make themselves sound foolish.

For me, no doubt - The Quiet Man John Ruiz tops my list. His cry baby "he fouled me" act deserved an Oscar Nomination.

nobody rates Ruiz, HE SUCKS so how can he be overrated?

nobody rates Ruiz, HE SUCKS so how can he be overrated?

Good point! :o

For me, no doubt - The Quiet Man John Ruiz tops my list. His cry baby "he fouled me" act deserved an Oscar Nomination.


Overrated? No. Boring and ugly to watch.....yes. Every fight, people hope he will lose, but he wins. He is the king of the underdogs.

Sad, but true.

James Toney for sure. Some people seem to believe in this guy. Why? Is it the WBC "Continental Americas Heavyweight" and IBA "Heavyweight Champ" titles? Or that whopping he put on old Evander? Maybe I missed something during that Jirov bout? Recently though, he got my attention with his domination of ...... Danny Green, now that's impressive.

Really though, Toney had his day from 1991 to 94, notably against Barkley, but those are the 'ole days. He needs to beat "somebody", soon.

If anything is overrated it is your ability to post an intelligent thread. Lewis, Marciano, and De Lahoya are overrated?? 2 top 10 HW's of all time and a fighter who won titles in 4 different weight classes and took on all comers....

Mike Tyson by far is one of the most overrated.


The media milked Tyson so much because he won in such and exciting and impressive fashion.

The truth is that EVERYTIME Tyson fought a great fighter he lost. Unless you count Holmes but Holmes was old and comming out of retirement to fight Tyson for a payday.

I used to be a Tyson groupie and it took me along time to grasp this truth.

Some people even have him in their top 10 P4P list of all time great heavies. Look at every other heavy that is considered great and you'll find just about every single one of them accomplished more then Tyson.

Gotta say Tyson. The only people I really rate that he fought beat him over 3 fights (Holyfield and Lewis) and he was beaten bad by Williams and Douglas who have no business in the spots they got by beating him.

Gotta say Tyson. The only people I really rate that he fought beat him over 3 fights (Holyfield and Lewis) and he was beaten bad by Williams and Douglas who have no business in the spots they got by beating him.

You gonna tell me prison didn't do **** to him? Had he stayed active, you'd only hear about him.

Lewis and DLH are two of the most decorated boxers of any era. Did you just try and say DLH "Padded his record"? may I ask against who? I dont care if you dont like him, but anyone who questions DLH's level of competion is only going to make themselves sound foolish.how true about DLH,lets see both him and Tito have fought Camacho,Carr,Campas,Vargas and both loss to B-Hop,just to name a few. DLH padded? LOL hell F*(^ing no, DLH can box and IMO is under rated,everytime he fights people want to see him get beat.he is small frame,good speed,great chin and ok stamina and has some power and yet his boxing skills can handle most of todays Champs

There is a lot of over rated fighters , but i have to say right the most over rated fighter is without a doubt MANNY PAC!

I was thinking....Who does everybody here think are the most overated fighters of all time. I don't mean fighters who did not live up to their potential (ie Tyson, Toney, David Reid) I mean fighters that may have had or are having great careers are doing their best but you believe are given more credit than they deserve.

The first three that come to mind are:

1)Rocky Marciano- Something should be said for retiring undefeated, but his career was largely a case of being in the right place in the right time. He beat Jersey Joe Walcott for the title (already and old man) fought a past his prime Joe Louis and Archie Moore (who almost beat him) and there were no real good young up and coming heavyweights to challenge him. He was around 8-10 years prior to the rise of Ali. He also retired just in time to not have to fight Floyd Patterson. If he was boxing 5 years earlier or later, I doubt he would have been undefeated.

2)Lennox Lewis-May be the best SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT of all time. If there was a division for people of his size, but the fact of the matter was he was a good fighter beating other good people who he had 5-6 inches of height on (at least) and who were giving away 20 pounds or more in weight to. Good big man almost always beats good smaller dude. Yet he still managed to get knocked out by Oliver McCall, Hasim Rachman, and lose to Evander Holyfield on the downside of his career. (No not his first fight where he got screwed out of the decision, the second fight they said he won) He also arguably loss to Ray Mercer. Lennox is not even in my all time heavyweight top 15 maybe not even top 20. In a mediocre era of heavyweights he was only just good.

3)Oscar De La Hoya-Here's why. He has won titles in 5 weight classes true and he is an excellent boxer. But the media hype machine (and throngs of female fans) have made him out to be a better boxer than he is. Its also given him a host of questionable decisions from Whittaker to Ike Quartery, to Felix Sturm just recently. If Hop had let it go to the cards he might have set himself up for a screw job as well. He's a great fighter, but he's had a very carefully managed career that has allowed him to make the most of his oppurtunities and pad his record with impressive (on paper wins). When he's been put in front of someone of equal or better talent he's lost (Tito, Hop, Mosley) although if he hadn't run he would have beat Tito.

I'm sure there are more what do you guys think? Do you agree with my choices, who are your choices?

How about the guy in your avatar.

I was thinking....Who does everybody here think are the most overated fighters of all time. I don't mean fighters who did not live up to their potential (ie Tyson, Toney, David Reid) I mean fighters that may have had or are having great careers are doing their best but you believe are given more credit than they deserve.

The first three that come to mind are:

1)Rocky Marciano- Something should be said for retiring undefeated, but his career was largely a case of being in the right place in the right time. He beat Jersey Joe Walcott for the title (already and old man) fought a past his prime Joe Louis and Archie Moore (who almost beat him) and there were no real good young up and coming heavyweights to challenge him. He was around 8-10 years prior to the rise of Ali. He also retired just in time to not have to fight Floyd Patterson. If he was boxing 5 years earlier or later, I doubt he would have been undefeated.

2)Lennox Lewis-May be the best SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT of all time. If there was a division for people of his size, but the fact of the matter was he was a good fighter beating other good people who he had 5-6 inches of height on (at least) and who were giving away 20 pounds or more in weight to. Good big man almost always beats good smaller dude. Yet he still managed to get knocked out by Oliver McCall, Hasim Rachman, and lose to Evander Holyfield on the downside of his career. (No not his first fight where he got screwed out of the decision, the second fight they said he won) He also arguably loss to Ray Mercer. Lennox is not even in my all time heavyweight top 15 maybe not even top 20. In a mediocre era of heavyweights he was only just good.

3)Oscar De La Hoya-Here's why. He has won titles in 5 weight classes true and he is an excellent boxer. But the media hype machine (and throngs of female fans) have made him out to be a better boxer than he is. Its also given him a host of questionable decisions from Whittaker to Ike Quartery, to Felix Sturm just recently. If Hop had let it go to the cards he might have set himself up for a screw job as well. He's a great fighter, but he's had a very carefully managed career that has allowed him to make the most of his oppurtunities and pad his record with impressive (on paper wins). When he's been put in front of someone of equal or better talent he's lost (Tito, Hop, Mosley) although if he hadn't run he would have beat Tito.

I'm sure there are more what do you guys think? Do you agree with my choices, who are your choices?
Holyfield won that rematch with Lewis clearly.

Larry Holmes is vastly overrated.

Don't get me wrong, he is a legitimately great heavyweight, but if you look at most people's top 5 Holmes is usually somewhere between 2-5.I'm sorry, but that is just too much respect.

Larry Holmes never did unify the title. Durng the second half of his title run he openly avoided the challenges of fighters like Greg Page and Pinklon Thomas in favor of safer opponents such as Marvis Frazier and Scott Frank. Tim Witherspoon was supposed to be too green, as was Carl Williams, and yet there are many who believe both deserved the decisions against Holmes. Even earlier in his title days Holmes was knocked down and badly hurt against Ernie Shavers and Renaldo Snipes. And his title winning effort against Ken Norton was so close it could have gone either way.

Lewis was in my opinion,just because of his chin.If Mccall did not break down in the secound fight,Lewis would not be mentioned as he is as a Top 15 HW of all time.

mike tyson

roberto duran

muhhamad ali

mike tyson

roberto duran

muhhamad ali

In the movie Dumb and Dumber, which one were you?

I'm very surprised at some of the fighters you guys say are overrated.
Rocky Marciano: Only fighter IN HISTORY to have a perfect record.
Roberto Duran: Champ from 135-160 right?
Unless you think these two guys were invincible, then it's hard to overrate them.

Lennox Lewis is in my opinion not overrated, simply because alot of people have serious doubts about him. I don't think of him as being all that great.
Ali in a way is overrated. He is one of the greatest Heavyweights ever, but the general public thinks he was God.

Lewis was in my opinion,just because of his chin.If Mccall did not break down in the secound fight,Lewis would not be mentioned as he is as a Top 15 HW of all time.

Really?

so want to tell me how McCall was doing in that fight?

I was thinking....Who does everybody here think are the most overated fighters of all time. I don't mean fighters who did not live up to their potential (ie Tyson, Toney, David Reid) I mean fighters that may have had or are having great careers are doing their best but you believe are given more credit than they deserve.

The first three that come to mind are:

1)Rocky Marciano- Something should be said for retiring undefeated, but his career was largely a case of being in the right place in the right time. He beat Jersey Joe Walcott for the title (already and old man) fought a past his prime Joe Louis and Archie Moore (who almost beat him) and there were no real good young up and coming heavyweights to challenge him. He was around 8-10 years prior to the rise of Ali. He also retired just in time to not have to fight Floyd Patterson. If he was boxing 5 years earlier or later, I doubt he would have been undefeated.

2)Lennox Lewis-May be the best SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT of all time. If there was a division for people of his size, but the fact of the matter was he was a good fighter beating other good people who he had 5-6 inches of height on (at least) and who were giving away 20 pounds or more in weight to. Good big man almost always beats good smaller dude. Yet he still managed to get knocked out by Oliver McCall, Hasim Rachman, and lose to Evander Holyfield on the downside of his career. (No not his first fight where he got screwed out of the decision, the second fight they said he won) He also arguably loss to Ray Mercer. Lennox is not even in my all time heavyweight top 15 maybe not even top 20. In a mediocre era of heavyweights he was only just good.

3)Oscar De La Hoya-Here's why. He has won titles in 5 weight classes true and he is an excellent boxer. But the media hype machine (and throngs of female fans) have made him out to be a better boxer than he is. Its also given him a host of questionable decisions from Whittaker to Ike Quartery, to Felix Sturm just recently. If Hop had let it go to the cards he might have set himself up for a screw job as well. He's a great fighter, but he's had a very carefully managed career that has allowed him to make the most of his oppurtunities and pad his record with impressive (on paper wins). When he's been put in front of someone of equal or better talent he's lost (Tito, Hop, Mosley) although if he hadn't run he would have beat Tito.

I'm sure there are more what do you guys think? Do you agree with my choices, who are your choices?

No one in your list is overrated. If i were to say Hamed is overrated, would you agree? Anyone, what do you think?

What about Ken Norton? Talk about overrated.............

Ken Norton was by no means great but he also fought in one of the most difficult eras in boxing (Ali, Frazier, Foreman). He wasnt quite at their level even though he did manage to break Ali's jaw and eventually win in their first match that solidified him as a big name in boxing.

There is no question the most overrated fighter of all time is Mike Tyson.

He was a phenom in the 80's, there's no question about that. But, even then.....the way folks went nuts about his invincibility was ridiculous.
You could see from the Tony Tucker fight that Mike had limitations....which would be exposed by a heavyweight with real skills & the balls to use them.

You can see how overrated Mike was by the way so many EXCUSED all of his losses.
So many couldn't handle that he lost because of his own limitations as a fighter. They HAD TO attribute it to outside causes, & that's because they were BLINDED by the excitement he generated. They all overrated what he could get done in there.

Look at how many people still think Mike is worth a damn today !
Just proves so many have never viewed his abilities with a clear mind.

People will probably shoot me down for this but this is what I belive: Lets start with the guys that the origional thread mentioned Lewis, Marciano and De La Hoya, I struggle with all of these, I don't think any are overated they all deserve the plaudits they recieve. And as for the guy who claimed Duran was overated, please, Duran if anything is one of the most underated!

My list would involve the names:

Tyson. The guy beat all of the opponents he beat outside the ring because he scared the **** out of them, In the ring he had plenty of fizz in his punches and sure when he was in his prime he also had underated hand speed, however the guy had a suspect chin and questionable stamina and heart I'm affraid. Tyson fans will argure but he ain't a top 10-15 of all time heavies - sorry. The big fights against other guys who would be up on that top 10 - 15 list I affrad he didn't get the job done. He has throughout (inserted for the people who claim that Tysons career should be looked at in two parts)his career lost fights to some average fighters.

Ali - The greatest, not in my opinion. I have him in my top 10 (all weights)of all time just, at about 7-8. He is not the greatest boxer to ever live, he may have been the greatest ambasador for the sport, although I feel thats highly questionable. He was hyped by the media because he also, as well as being a superb fighter, had a brain and a sparkling personality. The whole Ali persona drove a huge media band wagon that just rolled and rolled. Great but not the greatest I'm affraid.

And one for the more recent, Sharmba Mitchell - vastly overated in my opinion, never really beaten anybody of note his whole career spanning over 50 fights. Yeah he can box, yes he's slick and can throw combo's and dance but does really poses any real defining attributes. He has hung around the Jnr Welterweight division won a soft belt on a couple of occasions and run round shouting about it, more worryingly he seems to have convinced the majority of the US that he's a bit tasty. Everytime he has faced a real quality fighter in his career he's come up short: Stevie Johnston, Kostya Tyszu and rather more worryingly Lavander Johnson - sorry hes ain't that great.

Julio Ceasar Chavez-A very good fight but he was not the fighter that everyone made him out to be, at times he was very protected as well.

Terry Norris-he was damn fun too watch but he liked to beat uyp on little guys who couldn't fight back, when in with a puncher (Jackson,Brown), he showed he wasn't half the fighter everyone thought he was.

Erik Morel-never got it never will, this guy just was boring as ****, it was only a matter of time before he was given a defeat.

Hamed-any real fight fan knew that once the prince stepped up his comp, he would be through!

Hector Camacho-although he is light years ahead of his son jr, he was a pit and pat ***** who when forced to fight usually came out on the wrong end, definately an overrated fighter.

Tommy Hearns-he is maybe the best fighter on this list, either him or Chavez, usually when he stepped up he lost, and usually lost badly although valiantly. I consider him great yet I still believe that with a chin that bad you have to be a little overrated, although I love him.

Paul Spadafora-you are the worst piece of ****in **** in the sport, thats all.

Julio Ceasar Chavez-A very good fight but he was not the fighter that everyone made him out to be, at times he was very protected as well.

Terry Norris-he was damn fun too watch but he liked to beat uyp on little guys who couldn't fight back, when in with a puncher (Jackson,Brown), he showed he wasn't half the fighter everyone thought he was.

Erik Morel-never got it never will, this guy just was boring as ****, it was only a matter of time before he was given a defeat.

Hamed-any real fight fan knew that once the prince stepped up his comp, he would be through!

Hector Camacho-although he is light years ahead of his son jr, he was a pit and pat ***** who when forced to fight usually came out on the wrong end, definately an overrated fighter.

Tommy Hearns-he is maybe the best fighter on this list, either him or Chavez, usually when he stepped up he lost, and usually lost badly although valiantly. I consider him great yet I still believe that with a chin that bad you have to be a little overrated, although I love him.

Paul Spadafora-you are the worst piece of ****in **** in the sport, thats all.

Scap.....

I agree with most of what you say.....but Chavez is not overrated. In fact, there's this whole sect of fight fans who either hate him, or think he's overrated. This makes me think he's UNDERRATED, lol !

Seriously....he was never protected.
He fought guys like LaPorte, Rosario, Mayweather, Taylor, JL Ramirez.....& Whitaker.

If you mean protected by the judges & such....yeah, he was that a little bit.

There is no question that he is a great fighter, I think I say overrated because I think he was protected by judges/ at times don king and most of all I think he is the most classless fighter I have ever seen fight. I probably can't get past the classless part...Steele in my mind should have let Meldrick finish, he was on his feet, Sweet Pea easily defeated him and I don't even want to talk about the Frankie Randall bull****. Past his prime in the last two (sweet pea/Randall) but for god sake show some ****in class!

tommy morrison was over rated. micheal grant was hyped up. pac man is overrated he needs one more big victory to have me sold


Morrison is a little underrated IMO. Destroyed Razor Ruddock, beat Foreman for a title, was kicking the living **** out of Ray Mercer until he ran out of gas. If the guy didn't stay up until 4 in the monring before his fights(getting drunk and hitin ass), then he would have really been something. Pinklon Thomas and Razor Ruddock say that he punched harder than Tyson. If he only had a serious work ethic the guy would have been a beast.

Good point! :o

Ruiz I think is one of worst boxers of all time... :mad:

I also think that one of the most overrated was Rocky Marciano, maybe because he's undefeated. Don't think that he could win against the likes of Tyson, Lewis or Foreman.

what i think about your list.......well we are all entitled to opinions. i respect yours but i do not agree with all of them. rocky was in some knockdown drag outs that most of todays 10 would have either quit or got ktfo. the guy had a chin, heart and stamina.

lewis i can agree with. totally over rated. but its not his fault. he could have proved himself if he were in a different era imo.

and finally oscar de la hoya.....i can't stand dlh but he is not over rated. he deserves every bit of his props. he faught all of the best in his time. and they were no clowns. sure he has won some controversial fights but he has lost a few too. he has had the luxury of picking his fights in the mid to later part of his career and he faught the best. there were some he couldn't handle but he faught them non the less.

now for my pics.....

manny the destroyer. he has had some impressive wins but is not at the level of greatness everyone makes him out to be. he has the potential to be and prolly will but until he actually proves that he can be a skilled boxer instead of a bottomless pit of energy and power he is over rated as a boxer.

roy jones. i have no clue why for so long people were afraid of this guy. i always said that if you kept pressure on this guy and not let him dance around and take pot shots that you could knock him out. his resume is unimpressive to me. i have said it on here before and have caght some slack about it. some have even given evidence of why he actually faught great fighters, but i don't buy into all that.

I have two picks. 1) Hamed, he was the worst. 2)...I'm gonna catch a whole lotta sh*t for this one but....Ali. Let me explain, Ali was very good. Ali was a master at self-promotion, if he wasn't a fighter he would have a marketing guru. If you tell people you are the best for a long enough time, they will start to believe you. Some people judge him by his competition, but how good was his competition? By what standards were they judged? Because they gave Ali a good fight? Because they hit Ali..a lot? Is that a testament to they're skill or to normallity of Ali? Being tough is indeed a benificial quality in boxing, but to stand on the ropes and eat clean shots like he did against Foreman is not a sign of greatness, now if he blocked them...maybe, but he ate a buffets worth of clean punches. Don't beat me up too bad for this, as it is just my opinion.

I have two picks. 1) Hamed, he was the worst. 2)...I'm gonna catch a whole lotta sh*t for this one but....Ali. Let me explain, Ali was very good. Ali was a master at self-promotion, if he wasn't a fighter he would have a marketing guru. If you tell people you are the best for a long enough time, they will start to believe you. Some people judge him by his competition, but how good was his competition? By what standards were they judged? Because they gave Ali a good fight? Because they hit Ali..a lot? Is that a testament to they're skill or to normallity of Ali? Being tough is indeed a benificial quality in boxing, but to stand on the ropes and eat clean shots like he did against Foreman is not a sign of greatness, now if he blocked them...maybe, but he ate a buffets worth of clean punches. Don't beat me up too bad for this, as it is just my opinion.

Personally, to question Ali's talent and competition is outrageous. People don't consider him the best simply because he kept saying he was. If John Ruiz had Ali's charisma and touted himself as the greatest, he'd still be an average fighter. Ali claimed he was the greatest, but he sure as hell back those words up by beating the best opposition any heavyweight as faced.

They aren't only great by my standards, but pretty much everyone else. Almost everyone has Joe Frazier, George Foreman, and Sonny Liston in theit top 10 heavyweights of all-time. At the time, Liston appeared to be unbeatable destroying people left and right. The same goes for George Foreman. People predicted them to be heavyweight champ for multiple years, since no one seemed to be able to compete with them. Then comes Ali, who does the impossible: he beats them. What makes his victories over Foreman and Frazier more impressive was the fact that he wasn't even in his prime. He was still able to overcome these dominating fighters with deteriorated ability.

Yes, Ali and was hittable against Foreman, but that was by choice; tt was his strategy. He wanted to tire Foreman out. Ali proved time and time again that he was tough, but toughness wasn't his only noteworthy attribute. To judge his skill and ability by just his fight against Foreman alone is unjust. In his prime, Ali was nearly unhittable. His defense, reflexes, and speed were uncanny for a heavyweight.

Don't get me wrong, i think Ali can be overrated in certain circumstances, such as when people rank him as one of the top 3 greatest fighters of all-time (personally i have him at 5 i believe). However, to question the man's skill and competition and merely label him as "very good" is underrating him.

Naseem Hamed, Ricky Hatton

There is no question the most overrated fighter of all time is Mike Tyson.

He was a phenom in the 80's, there's no question about that. But, even then.....the way folks went nuts about his invincibility was ridiculous.
You could see from the Tony Tucker fight that Mike had limitations....which would be exposed by a heavyweight with real skills & the balls to use them.

You can see how overrated Mike was by the way so many EXCUSED all of his losses.
So many couldn't handle that he lost because of his own limitations as a fighter. They HAD TO attribute it to outside causes, & that's because they were BLINDED by the excitement he generated. They all overrated what he could get done in there.

Look at how many people still think Mike is worth a damn today !
Just proves so many have never viewed his abilities with a clear mind.

Exactly...OVERRATED is the key word here. Sure he had his moments, but the fact that I can walk into any bar in the country, and find someone who thinks a prime Tyson would beat any fighter of any era regardless, suggests that he is indeed quite overrated.

I dont think any of thos is realy overrated by boxing fans

Ken Norton and Roy Jones jr.

Mike Tyson and Roy Jones jr

ricky hatton comes 2 mind

ricky hatton comes 2 mind

How many of his fights have you seen out of interest?

Mike Tyson and Roy Jones jr
No way !

Exactly...OVERRATED is the key word here. Sure he had his moments, but the fact that I can walk into any bar in the country, and find someone who thinks a prime Tyson would beat any fighter of any era regardless, suggests that he is indeed quite overrated.

And who dares to deny that the most wises of people are found in a bar.

(BTW please do not mention Ali now!)

Mike Tyson is the winner of the overrated club. He beat an assortment of average heavyweights in his prime, Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Biggs, Holmes was too old and slow to count for ****, and Tony Tubbs. i ratted Michael Spinks and Tyson did him in a round so i credit him with this win but what else did he do apart from beat these, aprt from Spinks and Holmes is too old, useless group of heavyweights, and nearly half of them had either drug or weight problems, Tucker ( drugs ) Tubbs ( fittness ), Thomas ( drugs ), Smith ( a journeyman with a **** record ). So after Tyson beat Bruno ( ha ha )and Carl `**** truth; Williams he gets Ko`ed by Buster Douglas, and battles in hard fights with Razor Ruddock, who was kinda average. He gets released from prison and fights two nobodies in McNealey and Mathis, then beats on poor Bruno again, then Bruce Seldon who`d probably worse than Bruno. Evander Holyfield, a shot fighter and he`s gonna end up in wheel chair most boxing fans claimed beats him up twice. Then Fran Botha kicks Tyson`s ass for 4 and a half rounds only to walk on to a punch. Tyson couldn`t beat Orlin `Crusierweight' Norris, then he beats a 21 - 7 Brit in Juilus Francis, then beats on an old and shot Lou Saverse and he beats Golota when high on dope and rightly has the win taken away. Brain Nieslen, Tyson won that one like a legend didn`t he and Lennox Lewis beats him up in a one sided fight. Cliff Etgtitane gets Ko`d in 53 secs, people are claiming Tyson is gonna rip Lewis apart in the rematch, and,guess what, a Brit, a Brit lol, knocks him out in 4. This guy isn`t in the top ten heavyweights of all time, on these facts, how the hell could he be?

mike tyson

roberto duran

muhhamad ali

Are you for real?

Mike Tyson is the.... could he be?
That is what "no training" does to a boxer. In his (short) prime he was the best and the most feared(!).

(Say Ali? anybody??)

Prince Naseem

Ali.

'The Greatest' doesn't suit him half as well as 'The Louisville Lip' does.

And i don't think he would have beat Foreman if it wasn't for the crippling heat of Africa. Ali couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag. The guy fell down exhausted.

Ali.

'The Greatest' doesn't suit him half as well as 'The Louisville Lip' does.

And i don't think he would have beat Foreman if it wasn't for the crippling heat of Africa. Ali couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag. The guy fell down exhausted.

The heat? Ali was fighting in the same conditions. It was his fault that Foreman blew his wad in the first couple of rounds.

The heat? Ali was fighting in the same conditions. It was his fault that Foreman blew his wad in the first couple of rounds.
Well maybe it was his fault, continually talking to Foreman, making him mad and all.
:D

Muhammad Ali

Wow... I posted that as a joke... I didn't realise someone had beat me to it... but MEANT it

Overrated? No. Boring and ugly to watch.....yes. Every fight, people hope he will lose, but he wins. He is the king of the underdogs.

Sad, but true.

Hit that right on the head, But all he does is whine and pulls out "come from behind" victorys. In Ruiz's fights, you see more hugging then you do punching. Like he deserves a belt. :mad:

There is a lot of over rated fighters , but i have to say right the most over rated fighter is without a doubt MANNY PAC!

Nah! Pac's always underestimated not overrated! :p

Félix "Tito" Trinidad...

Félix "Tito" Trinidad...What The F**k, can you please elaborate more on how " Tito " is over-rated? Here's my list of over-rated, fighters Roy Jones Jr., Iron Mike Tyson, Prince Naseem Hamed, and right now Sloppy Manny Pacquaio and the rest of the featherweight division, oh and the king of the B - rated fighters..... None other than Arturo Gatti.

marciano. a prime dempsey would have kicked his ass

What The F**k, can you please elaborate more on how " Tito " is over-rated? Here's my list of over-rated, fighters Roy Jones Jr., Iron Mike Tyson, Prince Naseem Hamed, and right now Sloppy Manny Pacquaio and the rest of the featherweight division, oh and the king of the B - rated fighters..... None other than Arturo Gatti.

Alot of Tito fans think just because he beat Mayorga he's the freakin' Middleweight division saviour..I'll admit Mayorga was talking alot of trash out of the ring, but he isn't a top class oppponent, Tito is still the same Tito who got beat up by Hopkins, plain and simple..

manny pacquaio
Holmes
Tito
DLH
Byrd
Lewis
Spinks
Winky
Hatton

mike tyson

roberto duran

muhhamad ali

I hope to the lord jesus that you're messin' around!! Next you'll be saying that Ray Robinson fought no one and that Joe Louis was a lil' *****.

The fighter that tops the list as far as being The most over-rated boxer of all-time has to be Rocky Maricano. The most recognized names in the Brockton Blockbuster 's record such as Walcott, Charles, Louis, and Moore had an average age of 38 yrs. old by the time they fought Marciano who was around his late 20's when he fought all 4 boxers and had compiled an average of 13 losses between the 4 when they faced the Rock. Marciano as one of the best NO, one of the smartest as far as planning out his career YES!

Fres Oquendo
Michael Grant
Richardo Williams
Dominic Guinn

I hope the last two prove me wrong.

Nah! Pac's always underestimated not overrated! :p

That's what Pacman gets for being an exceptionally exciting fighter in a time of paper champs and pretenders.

He's an overachiever, much like Tito Trinidad who's willing to take on all comers and slug it out with just about anyone.

I hope to the lord jesus that you're messin' around!! Next you'll be saying that Ray Robinson fought no one and that Joe Louis was a lil' *****.

i totaly agree ali was amazing, how could he be over rated? if he is then they all are

Sugar Ray Leanord
Tito Trinidad
Kotza Ksysu ????

Sugar Ray Leanord
Tito Trinidad
Kotza Ksysu ????

How was SRL overrated?

Jack dempsey IMO is overrated.

No one in your list is overrated. If i were to say Hamed is overrated, would you agree? Anyone, what do you think?
Exactly who came to mind right away was Prince Naseem! I never thought he was as good as advertised, definately overhyped and overrated!!!

Nasheem Hamed should top this list . . . he is skilled allright but he is over rated . . . over hyped . . . over publicized . . . over marketed and most of all OVER ACTING! :eek:

:D ;)

Sugar Ray Leanord
Tito Trinidad
Kotza Ksysu ????Why? Tito and Tszyu have only one loss
apiece. Tito lost only to someone who has a bid for being seen as the greatest middleweight ever. And Tszyu's list of victims is a virtual who's who among jr. welterweights everywhere on this planet. If anything, I think, he's under-rated. He has not been given the recognition that his accomplishments deserve. Who among the current champions, save Hop, can claim he has fought most of those who made it to the contenders' lists in their respective divisions?

And, Sugar Ray, over-rated? After Duran, Hearns, Hagler, the Puerto Rican defensive wiz Wilfred Benitez...?! Many of Leonard's victims are either already in Canastota (like Benitez) or will be Hall of Fame frontrunners, when their time comes! :rolleyes:

The fighter that tops the list as far as being The most over-rated boxer of all-time has to be Rocky Maricano. The most recognized names in the Brockton Blockbuster 's record such as Walcott, Charles, Louis, and Moore had an average age of 38 yrs. old by the time they fought Marciano who was around his late 20's when he fought all 4 boxers and had compiled an average of 13 losses between the 4 when they faced the Rock. Marciano as one of the best NO, one of the smartest as far as planning out his career YES!Larry Holmes said something similar after losing to Michael Spinks, and many quickly got on his face. Especially, after he added, "Rocky can't carry my jockstraps!"

At the risk of sharing Holmes' fate, I register my agreement with you on the matter of the average age of the great ones Rocky faced, at the time he met them.

Now, if you'll just excuse me, I'll just look for a hole to hide in...! ;) :D

(Holmes subsequently apologized to Maricano's heirs, who had been at the Spinks fight as special guests. :rolleyes: )

I also think that one of the most overrated was Rocky Marciano, maybe because he's undefeated. Don't think that he could win against the likes of Tyson, Lewis or Foreman.


Tyson and Marciano, that would probably be a war. Marciano and Foreman, I see Marciano getting dealt with like Frazier was. I just feel any brawler who gets hit when he comes in (Frazier, Marciano) would get killed by Foreman, simply because he punched harder and was bigger.

BUT MARCIANO LOSING TO LEWIS!! LEWIS IS SO FUKNG OVER-RATED, OR MAYBE IM JUST BLINDED BY MY HATE FOR THE GUY. BUT HIS CHIN WAS SUSPECT, AND HE WOULD GET KILLED IF HE FOUGHT MARICANO IN HIS PRIME.

Remember round one of Tyson verse Lewis. Where Tyson was constantly banging Lewis. I see Marciano doing that to Lewis all night. Too bad Tyson was outta his prime and didnt have the heart to fight on. Cause if Tyson did, I reckon he would have showed everyone just how over-rated Lewis is.

I reckon if Foreman ever fought Lewis, he'd kill Lewis. Cause IMO Lewis struggled wit Boxers as tall as him or near his height (VItali). And Foreman could punch harder then lewis.

Exactly who came to mind right away was Prince Naseem! I never thought he was as good as advertised, definately overhyped and overrated!!!


Remember when Foreman said something like, he'd never seen antyhing as spectacular as Hamed. And Hamed remined him of a young Cassius Clay.
I almost fell off my fukng chair!

Remember when Foreman said something like, he'd never seen antyhing as spectacular as Hamed. And Hamed remined him of a young Cassius Clay.
I almost fell off my fukng chair!

he was talking about is flashyness, mouth, and how he could play around in the ring with his hands down putting up do gaurd, and still win fights. he wasn't saying the prince was as good. i understand and totally agree with george

Every heavyweight contender of the last 10 years has been overrated. Tua, Grant, Johnson, Maskaev, Whitaker, Briggs, Guinn, McKline, Wladamir K, you name em.... they all fell WAY short once they stepped into the spotlight.

I've said this about 10 times before.....IMO Mike Tyson is the most overrated fighter of all time. Besides the incredible fact that he won the heavyweight championship at such a young age....everything else he did in his career wasn't all that great.

He lost to every fighter that wasn't scared ****less of him.....and some might argeue this, but I thing his era's heavyweight division was weaker than that of the heavyweight division now. He was the ONLY decent heavyweight in the game for several years. He got dominated by Buster ****ing Dougles for god's sake. Tyson fans can ***** all they want about this post, but the Tyson hype was awesome while it was happening....but looking back he fought against a bunch of burnouts and bums. He lost to the good fighters he fought(and a couple bums).

Erik Morales is nothing but hype. Always fought a stablemate. And his only loses were from a guy who was not his stablemate.

Plus he lost his jrlight belt to a washed up Barrera. But he got very good fans. That's the only thing that he's good at.

you people missed the point here...boxing is showbiz, and the guy who sells well will always be blown up to keep the masses interested in him. yes ali was overrated because he was able to market himself and made himself the talk of the town during his heydays. the press and media always want a piece of him because he worked wonders with their ratings. the same is true with tyson, because the cable giant was making money out of him, so was dlh, delahoya and pacman. but it wasn't their fault if people see "something" in them worth seeing. the fact that a fighter is overrated is already a sign that there is that special qualit in him. the people you are saying to be overrated are the more if not the most successful in their career.

in show business, if you don't connect with the masses, you won't go nowhere and nobody would ever wanna pay to see your "show". i guess, it's better to be overrated, than being nobody after all.

Jack Johnson by a long shot.

the only oppenents he crushed was the smallest heavyweight champion ever Tommy Burns, Jim Flynn and a very, very old Jim Jefferies.

Jack will say he was ducked early in his career, but fact is he entered a title elimator for the vacant title in 1905 but he got schooled by Marvin Hart.

During his reign he unimpressively had draws against a 160lbs Philadelphia Jack O'Brein, and a total bum in Battling Jim Johnson (13-11-3).

When he finally fought a real challenger in Jesse Willard he got KO'd, but claimed he took a dive, even though he didn't go down until the 26th round. Seemed reasoned (yeah right)

Basically, he is the most overrated heavyweight champion of the 20th century.

What about Moe, Larry and Curly............

does anyone think roy jones jr is overrated

does anyone think roy jones jr is overrated
no, people know how good he is. everyone is willing to admit that he's great, but they also understand that he got old, weight loss, etc. I don't think i overrate him when i say that he was one of the fastest and most exciting fighters to watch.

Mike Tyson.....never rose from a knockdown to win or come from behind to win.

Roy Jones jr., Naseem Hamed, and Manny Pacquiao (so far)

Jones fought a bunch of lower level fighters while he was at his prime, never challenged himself.
Naseem Hamed fought nobodys and in his first real challenge he got worked so bad he went into isolation.
Pacquiao is good but not as good as some people here tend to believe, when he knocks out Erik Morales inside of 5 rounds and then knocks out JMM inside of 3 rounds, then he'll be living up to the hype that has been put out for him. By the way I dont think he can do it and I believe El Terrible will win by TKO late or Unanimous decision, though not a blow-out.

Erik Morales is nothing but hype. Always fought a stablemate. And his only loses were from a guy who was not his stablemate.

Plus he lost his jrlight belt to a washed up Barrera. But he got very good fans. That's the only thing that he's good at.

Lapulapu is officially the stupidest poster in boxingscene. I don't think it's even close anymore.

The Karate Kid. A close Second is Vitali Klitchko

I dont see how anyone can say Tito is overrated he has one loss and that is to Bernard Hopkins, when u think about it bernard started his career as a light heavy and Tito started as a Welterweight its not a shameful loss to have, and he has managed to bring his power up with him all the time

That's what Pacman gets for being an exceptionally exciting fighter in a time of paper champs and pretenders.

He's an overachiever, much like Tito Trinidad who's willing to take on all comers and slug it out with just about anyone.

very well put. although its the rabid obsessive pac fans that make me wanna see pac lose, he is indeed doing the EXACT same thing that tito did a couple of years ago. hes all **** and balls and is to be respected. i think if anyone thinks pac is overrated, its a direct reaction to the disdain that many of us have for those foolish pac fans that make stupid threads daily. but really, when you take on fuqqin barrera, jmm and then morales ... who cares about overrated, you're just the fuqqin' man and you're bigger than a title.

how true about DLH,lets see both him and Tito have fought Camacho,Carr,Campas,Vargas and both loss to B-Hop,just to name a few. DLH padded? LOL hell F*(^ing no, DLH can box and IMO is under rated,everytime he fights people want to see him get beat.he is small frame,good speed,great chin and ok stamina and has some power and yet his boxing skills can handle most of todays Champs

odlh never fought carr, homes.

Roy Jones jr., Naseem Hamed, and Manny Pacquiao (so far)

Jones fought a bunch of lower level fighters while he was at his prime, never challenged himself.
Naseem Hamed fought nobodys and in his first real challenge he got worked so bad he went into isolation.
Pacquiao is good but not as good as some people here tend to believe, when he knocks out Erik Morales inside of 5 rounds and then knocks out JMM inside of 3 rounds, then he'll be living up to the hype that has been put out for him. By the way I dont think he can do it and I believe El Terrible will win by TKO late or Unanimous decision, though not a blow-out.

Your right about Pacquiao, his one punch isn't going to be enough to beat Morales. I disagree with RJ's name being on that list though. I'm not even a big fan of his, and I agree that he fought some low level opposition; however, he did manage to hide the fact that he had a glass jaw for 15 years, that's impressive.

Your right about Pacquiao, his one punch isn't going to be enough to beat Morales. I disagree with RJ's name being on that list though. I'm not even a big fan of his, and I agree that he fought some low level opposition; however, he did manage to hide the fact that he had a glass jaw for 15 years, that's impressive.

hahahahahahahahahahahhaaaa

It depends who you're comparing a fighter to.

Like calling a fighter an all time great. Like for instance thinking DLH is an all time great.

The collector of belts, many questionable decisions and never ever seem to rise to the occasion in the big fights.

Go right ahead...

DLH is not overrated.

I am the biggest lennox lewis hater ever but u cant say he is overrated because he is tall and weighs more that is just plain ass stupid. btw he is overrated

wladimir was HELLA overrated.

1Zab judah
2tommy gun
3prince naseem

very well put. although its the rabid obsessive pac fans that make me wanna see pac lose, he is indeed doing the EXACT same thing that tito did a couple of years ago. hes all **** and balls and is to be respected. i think if anyone thinks pac is overrated, its a direct reaction to the disdain that many of us have for those foolish pac fans that make stupid threads daily. but really, when you take on fuqqin barrera, jmm and then morales ... who cares about overrated, you're just the fuqqin' man and you're bigger than a title.
i'll give him that he is bigger than title... he fights the best in his divison...

I know that people wont like this but if you look at the facts Rocky Marciano is not the best heavyweight and was and is overrated. If you look at the people that he fought, sure a few were great fighters in their times, but they were well past their primes when they fought Marciano. Ezzard Charles, Joe walcott, Joe louis. And anybody else was only mediocre at best.

There is no way that anybody can say that at lightweight Roberto Duran was overrated. That man was a terror at lightweight. He continued getting good fights because of the name that he made for him self at lightweight and welterweight when he beat Leonard. After that he was all but washed up and continued getting fights only because he was a marquee name..........Rockin'

both the klitchkos are garbage

This is ridulous Duran, Lewis, the rock, and even Ali are overated then who isnt.

both the klitchkos are garbage


haters like u ruin boxing

roy jones jr the crytal jaw
he fought nothing but bums all his career :mad:

i cant even be arsed to dignify this thread than to say half of what people have posted on here is total ****e.

to say duran is overated is ignorant in the extreme. he is accepted as the best lightweight who ever entered the ring by boxing officianados worldwide. So how the **** can you over rate the best.


****inell sometimes i despair. :eek:

roy jones jr the crytal jaw
he fought nothing but bums all his career

Most people acknowledge that Roy didn't consistently fight as tough opposition as was possible, but to call all his opponents bums is just dumb. Hopkins, Toney, Ruiz to name three. Even guys like Clinton Woods are nowhere near "bum" status - the guy will soon be challenging again for a world title, and don't forget, if the ref hadn't missed a legitimate knockdown in the last round of his fight with Johnson, he'd of been IBF champ and hold a win over the current LH king.

Think how many of Roys opponents have gone on to win world titles, I'm not quite sure but its quite a few.

The most overrated fighters of the last 15 years are Hamed and Tyson.

odlh never fought carr, homes.


Homes.....

DeLaHoya KO'd Carr in the 11th round, back in '99.

RJJ is so overated the only thing i will remember about RJJ is how he ducked a unification fight against Steve Collins at super middleweight, Steve made RJJ look so small whe he called him out after one of RJJ matches.

Tito is overated in his 2 biggest fights Hopkins totally out boxed him and DLH beat him but some dodgy judges gave it tito how did DLH lose that fight. i also think winky will out box tito as well.

Most people acknowledge that Roy didn't consistently fight as tough opposition as was possible, but to call all his opponents bums is just dumb. Hopkins, Toney, Ruiz to name three. Even guys like Clinton Woods are nowhere near "bum" status - the guy will soon be challenging again for a world title, and don't forget, if the ref hadn't missed a legitimate knockdown in the last round of his fight with Johnson, he'd of been IBF champ and hold a win over the current LH king.

Think how many of Roys opponents have gone on to win world titles, I'm not quite sure but its quite a few.
BUMS and that's my final word nothing but BUMS

HitterWitter....

Steve Collins ? NOBODY ducked that boring, featherfisted guy.
He'd have been destroyed by Roy Jones.
He wasn't worth Roy's time or effort.
You should be glad they never fought.

Mauricio....
Please, stop talking about non-Mexican boxers. It's apparent your bias has limited you, & I think it best you just stay within your limitations.

HitterWitter....

Steve Collins ? NOBODY ducked that boring, featherfisted guy.
He'd have been destroyed by Roy Jones.
He wasn't worth Roy's time or effort.
You should be glad they never fought.

Mauricio....
Please, stop talking about non-Mexican boxers. It's apparent your bias has limited you, & I think it best you just stay within your limitations.
well that's mi opinion so you keep it to yourself

Bernard Hopkins, his hit list looks like the undercard of a club show.

well that's mi opinion so you keep it to yourself


Well, your opinion is awful.
I think that's not even my opinion....I think it's more of a FACT.

RJJ is not and was never overrated. He was every bit as good as people thought him to be (except for Max Kellerman, now he DID overrate Jones). I think he just lost interest in the fight game.

Well, your opinion is awful.
I think that's not even my opinion....I think it's more of a FACT.
do you want some cheese with that whine ? :D

do you want some cheese with that whine ? :D


Me telling you that you're pretty much a fool doesn't constitute "whining".

RJJ is not and was never overrated. He was every bit as good as people thought him to be (except for Max Kellerman, now he DID overrate Jones). I think he just lost interest in the fight game.
Too bad he never proved it.

Me telling you that you're pretty much a fool doesn't constitute "whining".
i believe it does whiner :D

It's what you believe, that makes me think you're a fool.
You oughtta just stick to fighters from south of the border, bro.
All other topics have you talking out your ass. Sorry.

It's what you believe, that makes me think you're a fool.
You oughtta just stick to fighters from south of the border, bro.
All other topics have you talking out your ass. Sorry.
well that just your opinion whiner :D

Now you're just boring me, dummy.

Now you're just boring me, dummy.
you are that one who keep talking to me whiner :D
by the way he was, is, and always be remembered as a overrated fighter whether you like it or not :D

Bums Bums Nothing But Bums :d

HitterWitter....

Steve Collins ? NOBODY ducked that boring, featherfisted guy.
He'd have been destroyed by Roy Jones.
He wasn't worth Roy's time or effort.
You should be glad they never fought.

Mauricio....
Please, stop talking about non-Mexican boxers. It's apparent your bias has limited you, & I think it best you just stay within your limitations.

Dont make me laugh, Steve Collins was rated 1 at the time, no one would touch him. Do you remember what he did to Eubank twice and Benn. Have you ever seen these fights.
At the time it was the super middleweight fight everyone wanted to see, there was only one man to blame for this not happening RJJ.

Just found the quotes he used on American tv.

I travelled to Pensacola to see Roy Jones fight and I actually climbed into the ring after his fight. I accused him of avoiding me and I challenged him live on national TV. At the post-fight conference I spoke to Jones and the press, I called him a coward and a yellow dog and I offered to fight him, winners take all. I would have beaten Roy Jones and he knew it, he said he would never fight me!

Do you remember what he did to Eubank twice and Benn.
No, because he was hiding in England all the time. I remember Jones did an interview with the crowd and HBO BEFORE his fight with Bryant Brannon, and in it he claimed Steve Collins was ducking him.

With all due respect, it would seem to me that anybody calling Roy jones overrated is just being a playa hater. That man, for many years, was hands down(no pun intended) the most extremely talented fighter on the planet. Sure he just lost a couple of fights, but so did Joe Louis, Ray Robinson and the great Bobby Hitz at the end of their careers. To lose some fights at the end of your career is nothing to be ashamed of, infact it is a prime example of fighters not knowing when to give it up or for financial reasons not being able to give it up. I really believe that Jones had lost the will to fight at the end. I just hope that he stays away from the ring unless he finds a true desire to fight again. I know some will say that he never truely had the desire to really fight, that is not true. Jones is one of the few fighters that truely understands what the sport will do to you and chose to fight more on the safe side than the entertaining side. Even so, who at the time had faster hands, threw sweeter combinations and made people miss so frequently? And somebody had mentioned that he only fought a bunch of nobodies, lol, get real man.......Rockin'

No, because he was hiding in England all the time. I remember Jones did an interview with the crowd and HBO BEFORE his fight with Bryant Brannon, and in it he claimed Steve Collins was ducking him.

Shows how much you know, he wasn't even from England. At that time 3 of the best super middle weights were from britain. Collins, Benn, Eubank. Why would they want to come to america,they got more money fighting each other. did you see the crouds they drew one of the fights had 42,000 people there.

Any American who watched that RJJ fight would have seen Collins calling out Jones.

I saw Steve Collins fight NUMEROUS times.
He had ZERO appeal. He was a PLUGGER, without much of a punch.

He'd have had nothing for Jones, in the ring or in terms of making people want to see the two square off.

He was a tough guy, a fairly smart fighter.....I don't want to disrespect him.
But he was someone who no fighter would fear, in any way.

Felix "Cheato" Trinidad

Shows how much you know, he wasn't even from England. At that time 3 of the best super middle weights were from britain. Collins, Benn, Eubank. Why would they want to come to america,they got more money fighting each other. did you see the crouds they drew one of the fights had 42,000 people there.

Any American who watched that RJJ fight would have seen Collins calling out Jones.
England, Ireland, same bull****. Collins never beat a good opponent who wasn't British. He lost to McCallum, Johnson, and Kalumbay, none of them of British descent. Ricky Hatton draws alot of people, so does Paz, doesn't mean they don't suck. Only good fighters ever from England were Eubank and The Prince.

England, Ireland, same bull****. Collins never beat a good opponent who wasn't British. He lost to McCallum, Johnson, and Kalumbay, none of them of British descent. Ricky Hatton draws alot of people, so does Paz, doesn't mean they don't suck. Only good fighters ever from England were Eubank and The Prince.
that was a nasty remark asian sensation :mad: :mad:

USA is not everything you Know :D

Oh and by the way, the super middle category should be eliminated ASAP, along with the straws. Pointless categories.

I was thinking....Who does everybody here think are the most overated fighters of all time. I don't mean fighters who did not live up to their potential (ie Tyson, Toney, David Reid) I mean fighters that may have had or are having great careers are doing their best but you believe are given more credit than they deserve.

The first three that come to mind are:

1)Rocky Marciano- Something should be said for retiring undefeated, but his career was largely a case of being in the right place in the right time. He beat Jersey Joe Walcott for the title (already and old man) fought a past his prime Joe Louis and Archie Moore (who almost beat him) and there were no real good young up and coming heavyweights to challenge him. He was around 8-10 years prior to the rise of Ali. He also retired just in time to not have to fight Floyd Patterson. If he was boxing 5 years earlier or later, I doubt he would have been undefeated.

2)Lennox Lewis-May be the best SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT of all time. If there was a division for people of his size, but the fact of the matter was he was a good fighter beating other good people who he had 5-6 inches of height on (at least) and who were giving away 20 pounds or more in weight to. Good big man almost always beats good smaller dude. Yet he still managed to get knocked out by Oliver McCall, Hasim Rachman, and lose to Evander Holyfield on the downside of his career. (No not his first fight where he got screwed out of the decision, the second fight they said he won) He also arguably loss to Ray Mercer. Lennox is not even in my all time heavyweight top 15 maybe not even top 20. In a mediocre era of heavyweights he was only just good.

3)Oscar De La Hoya-Here's why. He has won titles in 5 weight classes true and he is an excellent boxer. But the media hype machine (and throngs of female fans) have made him out to be a better boxer than he is. Its also given him a host of questionable decisions from Whittaker to Ike Quartery, to Felix Sturm just recently. If Hop had let it go to the cards he might have set himself up for a screw job as well. He's a great fighter, but he's had a very carefully managed career that has allowed him to make the most of his oppurtunities and pad his record with impressive (on paper wins). When he's been put in front of someone of equal or better talent he's lost (Tito, Hop, Mosley) although if he hadn't run he would have beat Tito.

I'm sure there are more what do you guys think? Do you agree with my choices, who are your choices?



You make good points, but Oscar isnt overrated because A-He is a tremendous boxer with tons of talent. He is a warrior and he has never ducked anyone and has always wanted the biggest fights against the best fighters and B-He brings VERY MUCH NEEDED attention to boxing at a time when you practically have to put a gun to the sportscenter's newscaster's head to get him to talk about boxing.

You make good points, but Oscar isnt overrated because A-He is a tremendous boxer with tons of talent. He is a warrior and he has never ducked anyone and has always wanted the biggest fights against the best fighters and B-He brings VERY MUCH NEEDED attention to boxing at a time when you practically have to put a gun to the sportscenter's newscaster's head to get him to talk about boxing.
But he hasn't beaten too many guys beyond question:

Pernell Whitaker
Ike Quartey
Felix Trinidad

If he had beaten these guys up bad, he would be a p4p greatest of all time. He isn't, though.

that was a nasty remark asian sensation :mad: :mad:

USA is not everything you Know :D
But Olivares would've killed all those guys mentioned, right? I'm just saying that English fighters are protected and duck the guys they can't beat, what? I'm not on America's side, or even the Philippines side, I'm on my mine.

Oh and by the way, the super middle category should be eliminated ASAP, along with the straws. Pointless categories.
It seems that the only 2 Americans who ever weighed 168 lbs., Jones and Toney, dominated it. The only American there now is Lacy, and he sucks. 168 is interesting with Danny Green, but if they got rid of 168 they could compete with good fighters, like Tarver and Johnson.

But Olivares would've killed all those guys mentioned, right? I'm just saying that English fighters are protected and duck the guys they can't beat, what? I'm not on America's side, or even the Philippines side, I'm on my mine.
whta is wrong with you dude
i think you need to litghten up a bit you are taking everything to personal i believe you need to take your medication or something :D :D

whta is wrong with you dude
i think you need to litghten up a bit you are taking everything to personal i believe you need to take your medication or something :D :D
What are you talking about, I'm having fun. This is funny as hell! How about Chavez-Tyson? Chavez would woop his ass!

England, Ireland, same bull****. Collins never beat a good opponent who wasn't British. He lost to McCallum, Johnson, and Kalumbay, none of them of British descent. Ricky Hatton draws alot of people, so does Paz, doesn't mean they don't suck. Only good fighters ever from England were Eubank and The Prince.

Yeah. That Lennox Lewis sure was a stiff, wasn't he.

Yet another example that generalizations are almost always absurd.

Yet another example that generalizations are almost always absurd.
Here's one that isn't. Can you tell me what these 3 modern British heavyweights have in common?

Herbie Hide
Frank Bruno
Lennox Lewis

For 10 karma points!

England, Ireland, same bull****. Collins never beat a good opponent who wasn't British. He lost to McCallum, Johnson, and Kalumbay, none of them of British descent. Ricky Hatton draws alot of people, so does Paz, doesn't mean they don't suck. Only good fighters ever from England were Eubank and The Prince.

Collins beat Eubank twice??

As for the Reggie Johnson fight most people had Collins up it was another bad decision on the scorecards.

Here's one that isn't. Can you tell me what these 3 modern British heavyweights have in common?

Herbie Hide
Frank Bruno
Lennox Lewis

For 10 karma points!




Losses to McCall?

Losses to McCall?
No, garbage chins. Generalizations do work sometimes. Heres 10 points anyways.

Collins beat Eubank twice??

As for the Reggie Johnson fight most people had Collins up it was another bad decision on the scorecards.
He beat another English guy twice, surprising. Reggie Johnson is a much slicker fighter than people give him credit for. He is a superb boxer.

What are you talking about, I'm having fun. This is funny as hell! How about Chavez-Tyson? Chavez would woop his ass!
come on dude like if only mexicans would do something like this :D what about you pac huggers you guys believe pac can take on vitali on any day of the week and twice on sunday hahahahaha :D

What do you guys think of PBF. Do you think he is over rated. Do you think he has to prove himself at light weltetweight

No, garbage chins. Generalizations do work sometimes. Heres 10 points anyways.



*******, I've been on boxrec for the last ten minutes cross referencing **** :D

come on dude like if only mexicans would do something like this :D what about you pac huggers you guys believe pac can take on vitali on any day of the week and twice on sunday hahahahaha :D
I've never said anything of the sort.

*******, I've been on boxrec for the last ten minutes cross referencing **** :D
Its not exactly the hardest question ever asked.

Its not exactly the hardest question ever asked.



True, but there are other obvious answers.

They are black
They are from the UK

True, but there are other obvious answers.

They are black
They are from the UK
Those 2 were a given. They also enjoyed watching "Who's The Boss", unfortunately it came on at 3 AM because of the time difference.

No, garbage chins. Generalizations do work sometimes. Heres 10 points anyways.

It's still funny when you don't mention Lewis as one of the best English fighters ever, yet you do mention the Prince, probably the most overrated fighter of the last decade.

Those 2 were a given. They also enjoyed watching "Who's The Boss", unfortunately it came on at 3 AM because of the time difference.


http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0001Z3I1C.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

It's still funny when you don't mention Lewis as one of the best English fighters ever, yet you do mention the Prince, probably the most overrated fighter of the last decade.
The Prince, Chris Eubank, Ali G, and English Muffins. Oh yeah and The Spice Girls. Lewis had a garbage chin and wasn't funny. Atleast The Prince and Eubank were funny.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0001Z3I1C.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
You had that pic on call?

The Prince, Chris Eubank, Ali G, and English Muffins. Oh yeah and The Spice Girls. Lewis had a garbage chin and wasn't funny. Atleast The Prince and Eubank were funny.

Dude, you should go ahead and do some stand up comedy. You're hillarious!

You had that pic on call?


What's wrong with that?

I'm not sure if this has been said or not, (16 page thread, I'm not clicking 16 times ;-) )

but Tony Danza from Who's the Boss was a heavy hitter before he became an actor. He wanted to become world champion, 7 of his 9 KO's were in the first round. This was against decent opposition (for him) . Granted he got punked his 2nd pro fight but you gotta give him respect for loving the sport in his younger years. Him and Mickey Rourke are 2 actors I have a higher notch of respect for, even though Mickey wasn't the greatest fighter, at least his ass was in the ring. Anyway Tony was like 18th in his gym before he quit, supposedly.

here's a link to his accomplishments-
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=028927

I'm not sure if this has been said or not, (16 page thread, I'm not clicking 16 times ;-) )

but Tony Danza from Who's the Boss was a heavy hitter before he became an actor. He wanted to become world champion, 7 of his 9 KO's were in the first round. This was against decent opposition (for him) . Granted he got punked his 2nd pro fight but you gotta give him respect for loving the sport in his younger years. Him and Mickey Rourke are 2 actors I have a higher notch of respect for, even though Mickey wasn't the greatest fighter, at least his ass was in the ring. Anyway Tony was like 18th in his gym before he quit, supposedly.

here's a link to his accomplishments-
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=028927
LOL. never knew that. nice research.

I'm not sure if this has been said or not, (16 page thread, I'm not clicking 16 times ;-) )

but Tony Danza from Who's the Boss was a heavy hitter before he became an actor. He wanted to become world champion, 7 of his 9 KO's were in the first round. This was against decent opposition (for him) . Granted he got punked his 2nd pro fight but you gotta give him respect for loving the sport in his younger years. Him and Mickey Rourke are 2 actors I have a higher notch of respect for, even though Mickey wasn't the greatest fighter, at least his ass was in the ring. Anyway Tony was like 18th in his gym before he quit, supposedly.

here's a link to his accomplishments-
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=028927



I didn't know he was a fighter, I thought he played baseball.

LOL. never knew that. nice research.
He fought John LoCicero, who you might remember from his exciting ESPN war with Caveman Lee. That was an underrated great fight.

England, Ireland, same bull****. Collins never beat a good opponent who wasn't British. He lost to McCallum, Johnson, and Kalumbay, none of them of British descent. Ricky Hatton draws alot of people, so does Paz, doesn't mean they don't suck. Only good fighters ever from England were Eubank and The Prince.


dude sort you life out, me and you get on but to say that is just plain bollox.

Check out the records of Ted Kid Lewis, Jimmy Wilde, Randoplh Turpin for f*cks sake beat sugar ray was he not decent then?

Thats before you get on to the likes of Ken, Buchanon, Jim watt, alan minter, Dennis Adries, Barry Mcguigan, Lloyd Honeygun took apart Don curry amnd went on a long reign, Nige Benn took the supposed P4P great G man, Lennox Lewis....i could go on and on. Sorry mate but thats a f*cking ignorant post. Im surprised at ya mate :(

lewis,foreman,liston

lewis,foreman,liston


Oh dear. I assume you're a Tyson fan?

1. Mike Tyson
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Sam Peter
4. David Tua

Oh dear. I assume you're a Tyson fan?

1. Mike Tyson
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Sam Peter
4. David Tua

D.U.M.B to ta A.S.S!

eyyyyyyy, DUMBASS!!!

D.U.M.B to ta A.S.S!

eyyyyyyy, DUMBASS!!!


Simply because I pointed out your boy, there's no need to insult me. He's overrated, pure and simple.

Here's a rundown of a Manny fight:

Manny storms the center.

Jab jab left. jab jab left. jab jab left. jab MANILA ICE left. jab jab left. jab jab left.

I can tell you what punches he's throwing without watching the damn fight. Aside from David Tua, I've never seen a more one dimensional fighter.

Lay off that indo. No one is overrated there.
Oh dear. I assume you're a Tyson fan?

1. Mike Tyson
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Sam Peter
4. David Tua

In your eyes, maybe not. In my eyes, and a lot of other people's they are.

Simply because I pointed out your boy, there's no need to insult me. He's overrated, pure and simple.

Here's a rundown of a Manny fight:

Manny storms the center.

Jab jab left. jab jab left. jab jab left. jab MANILA ICE left. jab jab left. jab jab left.

I can tell you what punches he's throwing without watching the damn fight. Aside from David Tua, I've never seen a more one dimensional fighter.

so basically, someone is overrated judging on what they throw in ta ring???! Nice logic thurrr buddy! LOL!

Pac has been fighting quality opponets sice he came to ta U.S.A back in 1999 and WON MOST OF EM, beating Barrera (biggest challenge), and shoulda won gainst Marquez. In 1 1/2 years span, he's fought ta bests of ta division back to back. ! If that's ovarrated to you, then ma opoinion remains as it is. You're a dumbass.

He crushed Marquez. What a robbery. And people wonder why boxing is declining in popularity.
so basically, someone is overrated judging on what they throw in ta ring???! Nice logic thurrr buddy! LOL!

Pac has been fighting quality opponets sice he came to ta U.S.A back in 1999 and WON MOST OF EM, beating Barrera (biggest challenge), and shoulda won gainst Marquez. In 1 1/2 years span, he's fought ta bests of ta division back to back. ! If that's ovarrated to you, then ma opoinion remains as it is. You're a dumbass.

Ive always thought Gatti was overrated.

so basically, someone is overrated judging on what they throw in ta ring???! Nice logic thurrr buddy! LOL!

Pac has been fighting quality opponets sice he came to ta U.S.A back in 1999 and WON MOST OF EM, beating Barrera (biggest challenge), and shoulda won gainst Marquez. In 1 1/2 years span, he's fought ta bests of ta division back to back. ! If that's ovarrated to you, then ma opoinion remains as it is. You're a dumbass.

Seriously, reading what you type makes my brain hurt.

No, Pacquiao is overrated because of the hype behind him. He's built up as this great boxer, however he lacks skill in boxing. Granted he beat Barerra, but he lost to JMM, even with three knockdowns. Anyone who scored that fight as a draw must have been watching some other fight.

Because someone fights the best of their division doesn't make them great. All you ever read on this board is how great Pacquiao is, blah blah blah. Put him in the right with a prepared boxer, and he's going to get schooled. Hell, Morales beat him boxing and slugging, and Morales isn't quite the greatest technical fighter in the world.

If Pacquiao would develop his skills and learn to not be so damn predictable, then he would be a great fighter. Until then, he's a great slugger and average boxer, pure and simple.

MIKE TYSON
Naseem Hamed

Seriously, reading what you type makes my brain hurt.

No, Pacquiao is overrated because of the hype behind him. He's built up as this great boxer, however he lacks skill in boxing. Granted he beat Barerra, but he lost to JMM, even with three knockdowns. Anyone who scored that fight as a draw must have been watching some other fight.

Because someone fights the best of their division doesn't make them great. All you ever read on this board is how great Pacquiao is, blah blah blah. Put him in the right with a prepared boxer, and he's going to get schooled. Hell, Morales beat him boxing and slugging, and Morales isn't quite the greatest technical fighter in the world.

If Pacquiao would develop his skills and learn to not be so damn predictable, then he would be a great fighter. Until then, he's a great slugger and average boxer, pure and simple.


i stopped reading yer post ta moment I saw "but he lost to JMM".

You aint ready yet. Betta get some boxing knowledge first buddy.

Manny easily (obviously) won the 1 and 2nd round. From round 3 on, he went to school. The unfortunate thing is he didn't learn a thing while he was there.

You're unobjective, one-sided analysis of boxing is horrible.

Manny easily (obviously) won the 1 and 2nd round. From round 3 on, he went to school. The unfortunate thing is he didn't learn a thing while he was there.

You're unobjective, one-sided analysis of boxing is horrible.

not even. You said "lost to JMM'.....that's jest purely idiotic!

Manny won round 1 and 2, but in ma opinion and others aswell, he coulda won round 12 and 9 (maybe 10). But maybe you din't see that LOL!. Marquez definitely won in terms of rounds won, BUT Pacquiao shoulda won ta fight on points (WHICH MATTAS TA MOST IN SCORING FIGHTS). A judge admitted of making a mistake of scoring 10-7 on round1 instead of 10-6 fo Pac. Thus, Pac shoulda won that fight and not a draw.

And ta reason why Pac stopped being active afta ta 2nd round was that he inured his left hand and was hesitant to throw punches becuz it hurt him a lot!!!! JMM was lucky that night, cuz a healthy Pac woulda KOed him in round 2.

P.S: I had posted a picture to prove tis way befo. YOU'RE a late news. Start browsing ta site fo that GOLDEN PIECE I wrote a month back.

You have no point dude. When you said there was no way somebody could have it for Pac, you discredited yourself and got bad k from me.
Manny easily (obviously) won the 1 and 2nd round. From round 3 on, he went to school. The unfortunate thing is he didn't learn a thing while he was there.

You're unobjective, one-sided analysis of boxing is horrible.

You have no point dude. When you said there was no way somebody could have it for Pac, you discredited yourself and got bad k from me.

exactly. He siad no way in hell anyone could score ta fight a DRAW. Such ridiculous post considerin a poll was conducted here in Boxingscene and most people thought Pac shoulda gotten ta WIN!!!!

druth, I'm sorry but you need to werk on yer observation skills.

You have no point dude. When you said there was no way somebody could have it for Pac, you discredited yourself and got bad k from me.


I don't quite follow what you're saying. JMM outboxed, outmoved, outsmarted and outclassed Manny, which is something that a lot of people agree on.

I don't particularly care if I received bad karma from you. I don't agree with most of what you say and you seem to make things more personal than logical. Whatever, it's no big deal in the whole scheme of things =)

Manny almost took JMM head off in the first round. It would take 3 or 4 rounds just for JMM to make up for the first two or three rounds. No way he won.
I don't quite follow what you're saying. JMM outboxed, outmoved, outsmarted and outclassed Manny, which is something that a lot of people agree on.

I don't particularly care if I received bad karma from you. I don't agree with most of what you say and you seem to make things more personal than logical. Whatever, it's no big deal in the whole scheme of things =)

I don't quite follow what you're saying. JMM outboxed, outmoved, outsmarted and outclassed Manny, which is something that a lot of people agree on.

I don't particularly care if I received bad karma from you. I don't agree with most of what you say and you seem to make things more personal than logical. Whatever, it's no big deal in the whole scheme of things =)

he dint outsmart, outmoved and outclass a healthy Pacquiao that's fo sho.

trust me, Marquez would get KOed by a healthy Pacman.

exactly. He siad no way in hell anyone could score ta fight a DRAW. Such ridiculous post considerin a poll was conducted here in Boxingscene and most people thought Pac shoulda gotten ta WIN!!!!

druth, I'm sorry but you need to werk on yer observation skills.


Consider how many Manny P fans there are here. Take into consideration people's opinions (which I'm sure you saw it for Manny). The problem with this sport and sports in general is that people are always swayed by who they like, rather then what actually goes on.

I'm a huge Steelers fan, but I'm not going to say they're going to win the Super Bowl. They don't have the team for it. Ya follow?

Consider how many Manny P fans there are here. Take into consideration people's opinions (which I'm sure you saw it for Manny). The problem with this sport and sports in general is that people are always swayed by who they like, rather then what actually goes on.

I'm a huge Steelers fan, but I'm not going to say they're going to win the Super Bowl. They don't have the team for it. Ya follow?

ey, brah I bumped ta thread up where t poll was conducted. read it.

and I must point out, most people that voted Marquez shoulda won were Mexicans. Tis proves outside of Filipinos or Mexicans, most people thought Pacquiao won.

I rest ma case.

just like what i expected, manny being mentioned as one of the overrated fighters of all time and this thread ending up something like "manny has not proven anything"... (good anticipation AK) :D

just like what i expected, manny being mentioned as one of the overrated fighters of all time and this thread ending up something like "manny has not proven anything"... (good anticipation AK) :D

LOL, ey kabayan, school tis guy druth like you did Kimmy on ta otha thread. LOL.

tis guy is obviously a Pac hater and it's evident when he said "no way in hell fight was a draw, he lost to JMM"....when MOST PEOPLE thought Pac shoulda won. Hilarious!!!

theyre freakin haters thats it
they think mannys overrated
while they like wlad and gatti
just like what i expected, manny being mentioned as one of the overrated fighters of all time and this thread ending up something like "manny has not proven anything"... (good anticipation AK) :D

Lennox Lewis, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Roberto Duran all come to mind when i hear the word "overrated".

Roy Jones Jr is the most over-rated fighter of all-time.

LOL, ey kabayan, school tis guy druth like you did Kimmy on ta otha thread. LOL.

tis guy is obviously a Pac hater and it's evident when he said "no way in hell fight was a draw, he lost to JMM"....when MOST PEOPLE thought Pac shoulda won. Hilarious!!!
it's kinda useless schooling a guy who does not know how and does not want to learn dude... if he wants to stay blinded by JMM's wings, then so be it :D

theyre freakin haters thats it
they think mannys overrated
while they like wlad and gatti
haha! :D by the way, the wlad-peter fight was the first tiem i saw wlad fight and i was shocked big tym! while the first two knowck downs were obviously pushes, the third one was legitimate... and he looked like someone using somebody else's record... damn! wlad is overrated...

the word overrated is paralell to mike tyson for me.

exactly. wlad is a puss
and only his nuthuggers thought
he did good
only cause they have no faith
in wlads chin
haha! :D by the way, the wlad-peter fight was the first tiem i saw wlad fight and i was shocked big tym! while the first two knowck downs were obviously pushes, the third one was legitimate... and he looked like someone using somebody else's record... damn! wlad is overrated...

Definately Jack Johnson, He beat up much smaller men
Leonard too: he fought, excuse me, he behaved like an olympian with Hagler and
De La Hoya, knocked out with a body blow????
Oh and Duane Bobbick of course and while were at it,
Teofilo (Fidel, please keep Ali out of Cuba) Stevenson. It may have been 10 times better than Louis over Schmelling had Ali been given the chance to stomp Stevensons ass.

Definately Jack Johnson, He beat up much smaller men
Leonard too: he fought, excuse me, he behaved like an olympian with Hagler and
De La Hoya, knocked out with a body blow????
Oh and Duane Bobbick of course and while were at it,
Teofilo (Fidel, please keep Ali out of Cuba) Stevenson. It may have been 10 times better than Louis over Schmelling had Ali been given the chance to stomp Stevensons ass.


Jack Johnson overated...?...? dude thats crazy to say..he was fighting back then when the audience was throwing cans and bottles at him..everyone was againts him and he was still busting ass..

Leornard...omg..overated..ok..he only fought the best people in his division and then some..

DLH is hyped up by the media but not overated he really is a great fighter..

Roy is a great fighter but he is not as great as people make him look. he avoided ODH when he was at a lower weight. he also avoided a rematch with b-hop. his biggest win was againts tony. his lates losses to tarver make tarver look better than he really is. so tarver is overated 2

Pernell Whitaker is overated. zab judah is VERY overated

aw **** it, let this thread die already.

marciano is overrated. so is tyson, louis, and johnson, but definetely marciano is far overrated than all the others i've mentioned.

aw **** it, let this thread die already.Yes, but not before I have the last word (at least to this point):

Floyd Mayweather, Jr. (Best #4# my :moon: !!!)
Roy Jones, Jr.
Lennox Lewis (The two-punch kid)*
Rocky Marciano
Ronald "Winky" Wright

*Pawing right jab to set-up right cross. Rarely threw hooks or uppercuts.

The most overrated fighters of the last 15 years are Hamed and Tyson.

The Prince & Iron Mike did damage for a while til their time came (It happens to the best of them). Overrated are guys like Baby Joe Mesi, the Wladimir Klitchko, Lennox Lewis (He gets props for beatin errbody who beat him, but he had no competition in his era, he fought known guys that were past their prime & tried to call it valid), Tito Trinidad, & now, sorry to say cause I still like him, Fernando Vargas ain't beatin nobody of substance no more! Now Can u Dig Dat?!?!:boxing:

Yes, but not before I have the last word (at least to this point):

Floyd Mayweather, Jr. (Best #4# my :moon: !!!)
Roy Jones, Jr.
Lennox Lewis (The two-punch kid)*
Rocky Marciano
Ronald "Winky" Wright

*Pawing right jab to set-up right cross. Rarely threw hooks or uppercuts.

Uppercuts were a staple of Lewis's attack. Klitschko, Holyfield, Tyson, Grant, Bruno and Mavrovic all felt Lewis' power from an uppercut and they were on queer street afterwards.

I think DLH is incredibly overrated if people think he is one of the best of all time. He basically lost every big fight he was in other than Fernando Vargas. I similarly feel RJJ is overrated if you put him in the top 10 of all time, I think RJJ is a great fighter and definitely is HOF but not one of the best ever. ON the other hand I think Lennox Lewis gets way too much hate. Yes he did get KOd by 2 average fighters but he avenged both of those losses and he beat everybody else he faced. I can't blame him for not having adequate competition in his day or Riddick Bowe dumping his belt not to fight him. Lewis at his best would stand a good chance of beating any HW in history not because his skills necessarily but he is freakishly tall and has pretty good power. Not many people are able to get inside a jab of a guy that tall. Yes he was boring and limited in certain respects and his chin was a little suspect but he still did pretty well for himself.

DLH like the guy said. Should of lost to Whitaker/Quartey, he did end up losing to Trinidad (I had that **** a draw), Sturm, the fix to Hopkins, Mosley beat him up good the first time. I thought he took the 2nd fight though. He looks great against B level guys...looks phenomonal but against guys who have the same technical ability as him and A level guys... he is not all that.

floyd mayweather

Roy Jones Jr. He fought :cop:.

If you say Lewis is overrated you have to say Klitschko (both) are too, for the very same reasons.
Hoya is also not that overated. He has fought the best of the best and of course if yu do that enough times you lose some. Floyd Mayweather Jr, Tito Trinidad, Bernad Hoppkins, Shane Mosley. Need i say more? This one deserves SOME of his hype, although saying he won every match he fought given it was close is going too far.
Mayweather is not overrated, in fact he's one of the most underapreciated fighters alive together with Bhopp and Ronald winky wright.

Ali, Marciano, DLH, Gatti, Morrison, Dempsey, Quarry ect.. there's many to name, these fighters are underrated by some too though so it pretty much balances..

de la hoya for sure.

Fraudly Harrison has to be in there somewhere

ricky hatton
antonio margarito
john ruiz
jeff lacy
JERMAIN TAYLOR
felix trinidad

I was thinking....Who does everybody here think are the most overated fighters of all time. I don't mean fighters who did not live up to their potential (ie Tyson, Toney, David Reid) I mean fighters that may have had or are having great careers are doing their best but you believe are given more credit than they deserve.

The first three that come to mind are:

1)Rocky Marciano- Something should be said for retiring undefeated, but his career was largely a case of being in the right place in the right time. He beat Jersey Joe Walcott for the title (already and old man) fought a past his prime Joe Louis and Archie Moore (who almost beat him) and there were no real good young up and coming heavyweights to challenge him. He was around 8-10 years prior to the rise of Ali. He also retired just in time to not have to fight Floyd Patterson. If he was boxing 5 years earlier or later, I doubt he would have been undefeated.

2)Lennox Lewis-May be the best SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT of all time. If there was a division for people of his size, but the fact of the matter was he was a good fighter beating other good people who he had 5-6 inches of height on (at least) and who were giving away 20 pounds or more in weight to. Good big man almost always beats good smaller dude. Yet he still managed to get knocked out by Oliver McCall, Hasim Rachman, and lose to Evander Holyfield on the downside of his career. (No not his first fight where he got screwed out of the decision, the second fight they said he won) He also arguably loss to Ray Mercer. Lennox is not even in my all time heavyweight top 15 maybe not even top 20. In a mediocre era of heavyweights he was only just good.

3)Oscar De La Hoya-Here's why. He has won titles in 5 weight classes true and he is an excellent boxer. But the media hype machine (and throngs of female fans) have made him out to be a better boxer than he is. Its also given him a host of questionable decisions from Whittaker to Ike Quartery, to Felix Sturm just recently. If Hop had let it go to the cards he might have set himself up for a screw job as well. He's a great fighter, but he's had a very carefully managed career that has allowed him to make the most of his oppurtunities and pad his record with impressive (on paper wins). When he's been put in front of someone of equal or better talent he's lost (Tito, Hop, Mosley) although if he hadn't run he would have beat Tito.

I'm sure there are more what do you guys think? Do you agree with my choices, who are your choices?

great thread infamous ... :headbang::thanks:
i would take lewis off your list.the later part of his career he beat the best
while out of shape and hardly training.
i'd definently add tyson and the klits.

Miguel Cotto is FAST approaching.

At least here on this forum..


He's favored to beat De La Hoya and Paul Williams. :wank:

The fanboys are in full force.

De La Hoya-Lost to every great fighter he ever faced.

Tito-If you're not intimidated of his power, he's done, he'll retire like a *****, no heart.

Bernard Hopkins-Stayed at 160 and beat bums for over a decade and then beat up the above two overrated welterweight *****es and then one of the most overrated *****es ever.......

Antonio Tarver-Former crack addict who serial stalked roy jones and basically had a fetish for him until he finally fought him and got a lucky punch in when Roy was 35. Would've been mopped up by Roy in his prime fairly easily, but with some possible trouble i'll admit.

Floyd Mayweather Jr.-His skills are not overrated, but his desire to be a great fighter and his guts to take risks definitely is overrated as is his resume to a certain degree.

Miguel Cotto is FAST approaching.

At least here on this forum..


He's favored to beat De La Hoya and Paul Williams. :wank:

The fanboys are in full force.

Wow it really burns you up that nobody has been able to beat him yet huh?

Cotto is a very good fighter. Not the best in the world yet, but nobody has really labeled him as such. He's a legitimate two division world title holder who gets better with every passing fight.

Why would Williams or De La Hoya be favored against him now? Williams can't crack an egg and De La Hoya is now a part time fighter who hasn't fought at 147 in ages. Cotto would fold Williams in two. Oscar would take a bad beating IF (like in every other instance with Cotto these days) he couldn't blitz Miguel early in the fight.

Everyone will find out how good Cotto is pretty soon if they haven't already.

Manny Pacquiao
:rolleyes:

Wow it really burns you up that nobody has been able to beat him yet huh?
Cotto is a very good fighter. Not the best in the world yet, but nobody has really labeled him as such. He's a legitimate two division world title holder who gets better with every passing fight.

Why would Williams or De La Hoya be favored against him now? Williams can't crack an egg and De La Hoya is now a part time fighter who hasn't fought at 147 in ages. Cotto would fold Williams in two. Oscar would take a bad beating IF (like in every other instance with Cotto these days) he couldn't blitz Miguel early in the fight.

Everyone will find out how good Cotto is pretty soon if they haven't already.

I agree it's possible Williams could get folded.. But in 2 rounds?

There's also a better than great possibility Cotto gets completely owned by Paul Williams.. Several different ways.


De La Hoya would beat the **** out of Cotto.

It would be worse than the Mayorga fight. Much worse.


I appreciate that you're very enthusiastic about Miguel. :fing02:

But this "fan" stuff is what I was referring to..

I eally don't like it when Hoya said he wants to fight someone who will stay in front of him. Last one to say that? Gatti on the Gomez fight.
I wish him all luck in his next fight. I'll lose respect if he takes Hatton Mayweather away but for now he's one of my favorites just for having fought the best and how many can say they did? He did.

I agree it's possible Williams could get folded.. But in 2 rounds?

There's also a better than great possibility Cotto gets completely owned by Paul Williams.. Several different ways.


De La Hoya would beat the **** out of Cotto.

It would be worse than the Mayorga fight. Much worse.


I appreciate that you're very enthusiastic about Miguel. :fing02:

But this "fan" stuff is what I was referring to..

Folded in two...like in two parts, or halves, or pieces.

Williams wouldn't be stupid enough to really bite down and attempt to knock Cotto out. He could simply outwork him if he were tough enough to withstand what Cotto brings, but I don't see it going that way.

De La Hoya is older now and he doesn't have nearly the passion for the sport that Cotto has. Cotto would hand Oscar a bad beating if Oscar couldn't stop him early.

Yes I'm a fan of Miguel Cotto. Why would one watch the sport otherwise...if they didn't have a favorite fighter or two to root for?

I dont know the answer to this. I think the question is not being answered honestly by most.

Delahoya, Pac, LL, Hopkins, tyson, Jones, ect are all very good fighters and while I may think LL got his name elevated beating 2 over the hill fighters, and anouther may think oscar feasted for a good part of his career on names coming up in weight or over the hill. Most over rated of all time is a tad bit harsh for any of these.

Folded in two...like in two parts, or halves, or pieces.

Williams wouldn't be stupid enough to really bite down and attempt to knock Cotto out. He could simply outwork him if he were tough enough to withstand what Cotto brings, but I don't see it going that way.

De La Hoya is older now and he doesn't have nearly the passion for the sport that Cotto has. Cotto would hand Oscar a bad beating if Oscar couldn't stop him early.
Yes I'm a fan of Miguel Cotto. Why would one watch the sport otherwise...if they didn't have a favorite fighter or two to root for?

That two.. I see.


Your analysis of De La Hoya is coming completely from your own perception and imagination. It's also highly specualtive of you to say what DLH's motivation level is. We don't know that. :no:


Motivation?..

What does that mean anyway?...

If I'm highly motivated to beat Bernard Hopkins does that mean I can do it??

I'm a huge fan of myself.. But I'd have to favor Hopkins.. By brutal KO.

Miguel Cotto does not beat Oscar De La Hoya. Ever. At any point.


Regarding the "fan" thing I have to disagree there as well.

You do not have to have individual favorites to make the sport sexier..

I'm living proof. :fing02:

Floyd mayweather, the Riddick Bowe of our time...

That two.. I see.


Your analysis of De La Hoya is coming completely from your own perception and imagination. It's also highly specualtive of you to say what DLH's motivation level is. We don't know that. :no:


Motivation?..

What does that mean anyway?...

If I'm highly motivated to beat Bernard Hopkins does that mean I can do it??

I'm a huge fan of myself.. But I'd have to favor Hopkins.. By brutal KO.

Miguel Cotto does not beat Oscar De La Hoya. Ever. At any point.


Regarding the "fan" thing I have to disagree there as well.

You do not have to have individual favorites to make the sport sexier..

I'm living proof. :fing02:

No it's not, you seem to want to take the high and mighty approach here, lets be real for a minute though.

I question Oscar's motivation because it seems that he only wishes to fight once a year, twice at the most. A hungry fighter who really wants to cement his legacy is going to seek out everything they can that'll help them get to the top. Couple this with Oscar's other activities and business interests, as well as with the fact that he hasn't fought at 147 in 6 years, and I think it's valid to question his motivation.

That parallel you draw between yourself/B Hop and Cotto/Oscar is humorous.

Regarding the "fan" thing you disagree? Don't tell me you are one of those, "but I'm just a fan of the sport" types. That's a crock in my opinion. That's a nice way to keep it safe.

Why would you choose Bernard Hopkins (who you have in your picture below there) to beat Winky Wright? Can you honestly say that your affinity towards Hopkins doesn't sway your choice at all? Surely you aren't the only one who can size up a fight without a shade of bias.

No it's not, you seem to want to take the high and mighty approach here, lets be real for a minute though.

I question Oscar's motivation because it seems that he only wishes to fight once a year, twice at the most. A hungry fighter who really wants to cement his legacy is going to seek out everything they can that'll help them get to the top. Couple this with Oscar's other activities and business interests, as well as with the fact that he hasn't fought at 147 in 6 years, and I think it's valid to question his motivation.

That parallel you draw between yourself/B Hop and Cotto/Oscar is humorous.

Regarding the "fan" thing you disagree? Don't tell me you are one of those, "but I'm just a fan of the sport" types. That's a crock in my opinion. That's a nice way to keep it safe.

Why would you choose Bernard Hopkins (who you have in your picture below there) to beat Winky Wright? Can you honestly say that your affinity towards Hopkins doesn't sway your choice at all? Surely you aren't the only one who can size up a fight without a shade of bias.

How often a fighter fights in no way affects his motivation once he signs to fight, starts training, or gets in the ring.

Again, you are speculating. Your whole response here is speculation..

All of it.


I have a picture of Hopkins in specific pose here with Arguello.

These are similiar poses, no?

I designed this to have the precise look it has.

I could have used ANY two fighters, and would have for my specific need.

It does not sway me in any sort of way.


I picked Judah over Cotto when I like Cotto much more than Judah. FYI.

Overratedness is always subject to change, depending on how fashionable the fighter becomes at various times. Right now historically speaking Lennox Lewis is the most overrated fighter, since he has yet to be replaced. After him I'd say Ali, who struggled with way too many ordinary fighters to warrant his self-ascribed title of 'the greatest'.

DLH has been overrated, but now he's probably underrated. Tyson was astronomically overrated twenty years ago, but he's not anymore.

Dempsy's inability to conquer Tunney is a pretty big black eye for an all time great's resume, "long count" or not.

Marciano did beat Ezzard Charles twice, who was a really great fighter.

How often a fighter fights in no way affects his motivation once he signs to fight, starts training, or gets in the ring.

Again, you are speculating. Your whole response here is speculation..

All of it.


I have a picture of Hopkins in specific pose here with Arguello.

These are similiar poses, no?

I designed this to have the precise look it has.

I could have used ANY two fighters, and would have for my specific need.

It does not sway me in any sort of way.


I picked Judah over Cotto when I like Cotto much more than Judah. FYI.

You only addressed the portion about him fighting once a year, with no mention of my points that he has other distractions in his way, in addition to the fact that he hasn't fought at a weight this low in 6!!! years.

Inactivity can be a REAL killer. If you'd like to name all of those spectacular fighters who have been very successful fighting once a year then go ahead. It's not speculation, it's simply accounting for history.

You know I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as far as the whole Hopkins scenario goes. Makes no sense to try and prove otherwise.

As far as with Cotto/Judah, I just don't believe you. I can recall the majority of your posts calling for a brutal Judah knockout...almost sounding giddy over the idea. That's fine, just own up to it.

You only addressed the portion about him fighting once a year, with no mention of my points that he has other distractions in his way, in addition to the fact that he hasn't fought at a weight this low in 6!!! years.

Inactivity can be a REAL killer. If you'd like to name all of those spectacular fighters who have been very successful fighting once a year then go ahead. It's not speculation, it's simply accounting for history.

You know I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as far as the whole Hopkins scenario goes. Makes no sense to try and prove otherwise.

As far as with Cotto/Judah, I just don't believe you. I can recall the majority of your posts calling for a brutal Judah knockout...almost sounding giddy over the idea. That's fine, just own up to it.

I addressed it. I stated that the motivation comes when a fighter signs, trains, and steps between the ropes.

You address that. Address my points.

Innactivity is a real killer. But not for EVERY fighter.

You have heard of exceptions, yes?


Regarding Hopkins:

Interestingly, it was you, OG, who planted the first seeds for many people here on the forum advocating a Hopkins victory.

I remember your first post on the subject months ago. It was a very strong argument and one few could or should disagree with..

You have Hopkins to beat Wright. Just like I do.


The tone of your debate becomes a little contentious and emotional when you get pressured however.. That's dissapointing.


I'll be waiting for Cotto's next fight so we can put an end to this.

I hope it's not someone like Mosley or Mayweather so there are no excuses.

I prefer Miguel fights someone like Margarito, or even Gomez so people really get the message. :fing02:

I addressed it. I stated that the motivation comes when a fighter signs, trains, and steps between the ropes.

You address that. Address my points.

Innactivity is a real killer. But not for EVERY fighter.

You have heard of exceptions, yes?


Regarding Hopkins:

Interestingly, it was you, OG, who planted the first seeds for many people here on the forum advocating a Hopkins victory.

I remember your first post on the subject months ago. It was a very strong argument and one few could or should disagree with..

You have Hopkins to beat Wright. Just like I do.


The tone of your debate becomes a little contentious and emotional when you get pressured however.. That's dissapointing.


I'll be waiting for Cotto's next fight so we can put an end to this.

I hope it's not someone like Mosley or Mayweather so there are no excuses.

I prefer Miguel fights someone like Margarito, or even Gomez so people really get the message. :fing02:

There are exceptions, but since when has Oscar been one of them? He has fought 4 times in the past 3 years and he has only looked spectacular against a tailor made opponent who had the ****in flank steak beaten out of him in his last appearance. He looked terrible against Sturm, terrible against Hopkins, and he looked pretty good against Floyd, who was a physically weaker fighter.

There is a track record for fighters having trouble with their timing, accuracy and reflex after long layoffs. This is especially the case when you talk about an older fighter. Margarito, Quartey and Castillo are some recent examples. I hope this addresses your point.

I'm going with Hopkins because I feel that he is flat out bigger and better than Wright, and I'm also a fan of Bernard Hopkins. I pull for Hop in pretty much every fight he is in. I felt he may not have been able to overcome Tarver's size and activity, but he proved me wrong.

I become contentious and emotional when I'm pressured? Yeah because I'm not a robot. I'm sorry if that disappoints you. I will always put a little emotion behind my debates. Contending points with you and everyone else is part of my make up. I'm not going to pretend to be some complete middle man who only watches boxing to predict fights with 100% accuracy. Part of the intrigue of sports is living and dying with the teams/players/clubs/etc that you associate yourself with. I can be an adult about admitting when I'm wrong, and you'll hardly ever see me **** on someone else because they lost a bet/fight/whatever (unless it's fix). I haven't called you names...I feel that I have maintained a good level of respect in this dialogue.

Miguelito will show that he's a fighter that everybody should respect pretty soon. Win, lose or draw the guy will always give 100% and he'll always provide some fireworks. I happen to think that he's one of the best fighters in the world, but I have thought that from day one.

There are exceptions, but since when has Oscar been one of them? He has fought 4 times in the past 3 years and he has only looked spectacular against a tailor made opponent who had the ****in flank steak beaten out of him in his last appearance. He looked terrible against Sturm, terrible against Hopkins, and he looked pretty good against Floyd, who was a physically weaker fighter.

There is a track record for fighters having trouble with their timing, accuracy and reflex after long layoffs. This is especially the case when you talk about an older fighter. Margarito, Quartey and Castillo are some recent examples. I hope this addresses your point.

I'm going with Hopkins because I feel that he is flat out bigger and better than Wright, and I'm also a fan of Bernard Hopkins. I pull for Hop in pretty much every fight he is in. I felt he may not have been able to overcome Tarver's size and activity, but he proved me wrong.
I become contentious and emotional when I'm pressured? Yeah because I'm not a robot. I'm sorry if that disappoints you. I will always put a little emotion behind my debates. Contending points with you and everyone else is part of my make up. I'm not going to pretend to be some complete middle man who only watches boxing to predict fights with 100% accuracy. Part of the intrigue of sports is living and dying with the teams/players/clubs/etc that you associate yourself with. I can be an adult about admitting when I'm wrong, and you'll hardly ever see me **** on someone else because they lost a bet/fight/whatever (unless it's fix). I haven't called you names...I feel that I have maintained a good level of respect in this dialogue.

Miguelito will show that he's a fighter that everybody should respect pretty soon. Win, lose or draw the guy will always give 100% and he'll always provide some fireworks. I happen to think that he's one of the best fighters in the world, but I have thought that from day one.

That's a fine post, OG. :beerchug:


However, my point regarding the "fanboy" stuff is this.. If we cannot make a point about a fighter we see flaws with; without fans blindly attacking said posts - then we have a ****ing problem.

It dumbs down the whole forum, and the argument itself.


Your opinion on following certain teams, players, athletes is true for most - but not all, and every.. And it's certainly not a requirement to appreciate a sport or a performance.

Your posts here are fraught with opnions, speculation, and your specific point of view.. What's there to argue about??

Not much, clearly..

You have designed it that way.


Something else - you picked Tarver over Hopkins???

Because of size and activity..

Size and activity.

Yet, you say Miguel Cotto would "break Williams in two.."

You say Miguel Cotto would defeat Paul Williams???


Oh boy.. :pat:

This is exactly what I'm referring to with this fan ****.

This is a great debate you guys have going here, Addison and Oldgringo!
We need this kind of intelligent discussions here.
Both of you show class which few others in here are capable of.

I agree with Addison for the most part though; Don't think that Cotto would beat Williams right now. Maybe a couple of fights from now...?
De La Hoya, I think, would beat Cotto.

Addison; that fan stuff you're talking about is annoying as anything you care to mention. There's no way you can have a sensible argument with many fanboys who post here.

Oldgringo; You are completely right when you point to history as proof that it's a disadvantage to be inactive.
However, DLH has been competitive in every single fight he's been in, so is there any reason he wouldn't be against a smaller, inexperienced Cotto?

That's a fine post, OG. :beerchug:


However, my point regarding the "fanboy" stuff is this.. If we cannot make a point about a fighter we see flaws with; without fans blindly attacking said posts - then we have a ****ing problem.

It dumbs down the whole forum, and the argument itself.


Your opinion on following certain teams, players, athletes is true for most - but not all, and every.. And it's certainly not a requirement to appreciate a sport or a performance.

Your posts here are fraught with opnions, speculation, and your specific point of view.. What's there to argue about??

Not much, clearly..

You have designed it that way.


Something else - you picked Tarver over Hopkins???

Because of size and activity..

Size and activity.

Yet, you say Miguel Cotto would "break Williams in two.."

You say Miguel Cotto would defeat Paul Williams???


Oh boy.. :pat:

This is exactly what I'm referring to with this fan ****.

You hardly made a point when you exclaimed, "Miguel Cotto is over rated, he's being favored over Paul Williams and Oscar De La Hoya" (with disdain).

Unless I need to read previous posts of yours in this thread, I saw no further explanation as to why Cotto was over rated, so I took issue with what you said. It seems to me (my opinion) that you can't wait for Cotto to lose, as a result of your opinion that people over rate him (maybe in addition to other reasons). I don't think he is over rated because you hardly see him among the very top p4p fighters lists and pretty much no one thinks he'd just blow out everyone out there.

I would hardly say that I have stated that my opinion is absolute and there is no room for interpretation. I'll say why Cotto beats these guys, you'll say why he loses, at the end of the day I won't think much more of it than whats on the surface. I still believe my points about Oscar's activity and absence from the Welterweight division hold their weight though.

I believed Tarver had the edge Tarver over Hopkins for a variety of reasons. Size and activity just happened to be part of that equation. Hopkins was 41 and he was seemingly slowing down. Tarver was coming off an impressive win over Glen Johnson in which he threw 100 punches in some rounds, close to that in others. I actually bet on Nard to win with Mr. Soprano but I believed Tarver had the edge. I'd have to go back and see what I posted to be sure.

Cotto wouldn't be in that position against Williams and De La Hoya. He would be the shorter guy with a shorter reach obviously, as he has been in almost all of his fights, but he would be the physically stronger man in both of those fights as well. His great recuperative ability, excellent body punching, aggressiveness and ability to impose his will on his opponents by cutting off the ring and getting inside would give him an excellent shot to beat both of these fighter. Cotto is a young man who is getting stronger every fight. His conditioning is much better at this adjusted weight, so his work rate/activity is getting better and better. Williams is going to have a significant edge in activity, reach and height over everyone he fights at 147, so I'd be interested to hear who you feel would beat him...if not Cotto. I think you can see how this situation is different from Hopkins/Tarver.

Anyway, that's how I see things. I believe Cotto will be fighting Mosley before either of these fellas, so there will probably be a good amount of time to see these guys in action before either of these fights would come off.

Fraudly Harrison has to be in there somewhere
tyson, fraudly, naseem hamed, darchiniyan.

For me it's Lewis and Tyson, both over rated and over paid for their contribution to the sport.

This is a great debate you guys have going here, Addison and Oldgringo!
We need this kind of intelligent discussions here.
Both of you show class which few others in here are capable of.

I agree with Addison for the most part though; Don't think that Cotto would beat Williams right now. Maybe a couple of fights from now...?
De La Hoya, I think, would beat Cotto.

Addison; that fan stuff you're talking about is annoying as anything you care to mention. There's no way you can have a sensible argument with many fanboys who post here.

Oldgringo; You are completely right when you point to history as proof that it's a disadvantage to be inactive.
However, DLH has been competitive in every single fight he's been in, so is there any reason he wouldn't be against a smaller, inexperienced Cotto?

I wasn't saying that Oscar would be blown out against Cotto (I hope I didn't make it sound that way), but I do think that he'd be battered later in the fight if he couldn't muster up the punch or string of punches to knock Cotto out. Cotto doesn't lay off, and he's quite heavy handed. The pressure and consistent body/head attack from Cotto would really take its toll on Oscar physically and mentally.

Cotto may be shorter with a shorter reach, but he's as strong as an ox. I would also say that Cotto really isn't so inexperienced at this point. Less experienced than Oscar, but so are 99% of other fighters out there. With 30 fights under his belt against fighters with varying styles, 2 titles in 2 different weight classes, and a significant title fight (against Judah) at a major venue, I think he's as ready as he'll ever be. No one will ever exactly be ready for a guy like Williams...he's a freak of nature.

Put Antonio Margarito at the top of this list.

tyson, fraudly, naseem hamed, darchiniyan.

Boy you asking for an ass whooping

You hardly made a point when you exclaimed, "Miguel Cotto is over rated, he's being favored over Paul Williams and Oscar De La Hoya" (with disdain).

Unless I need to read previous posts of yours in this thread, I saw no further explanation as to why Cotto was over rated, so I took issue with what you said. It seems to me (my opinion) that you can't wait for Cotto to lose, as a result of your opinion that people over rate him (maybe in addition to other reasons). I don't think he is over rated because you hardly see him among the very top p4p fighters lists and pretty much no one thinks he'd just blow out everyone out there.

I would hardly say that I have stated that my opinion is absolute and there is no room for interpretation. I'll say why Cotto beats these guys, you'll say why he loses, at the end of the day I won't think much more of it than whats on the surface. I still believe my points about Oscar's activity and absence from the Welterweight division hold their weight though.

I believed Tarver had the edge Tarver over Hopkins for a variety of reasons. Size and activity just happened to be part of that equation. Hopkins was 41 and he was seemingly slowing down. Tarver was coming off an impressive win over Glen Johnson in which he threw 100 punches in some rounds, close to that in others. I actually bet on Nard to win with Mr. Soprano but I believed Tarver had the edge. I'd have to go back and see what I posted to be sure.

Cotto wouldn't be in that position against Williams and De La Hoya. He would be the shorter guy with a shorter reach obviously, as he has been in almost all of his fights, but he would be the physically stronger man in both of those fights as well. His great recuperative ability, excellent body punching, aggressiveness and ability to impose his will on his opponents by cutting off the ring and getting inside would give him an excellent shot to beat both of these fighter. Cotto is a young man who is getting stronger every fight. His conditioning is much better at this adjusted weight, so his work rate/activity is getting better and better. Williams is going to have a significant edge in activity, reach and height over everyone he fights at 147, so I'd be interested to hear who you feel would beat him...if not Cotto. I think you can see how this situation is different from Hopkins/Tarver.

Anyway, that's how I see things. I believe Cotto will be fighting Mosley before either of these fellas, so there will probably be a good amount of time to see these guys in action before either of these fights would come off.

I agree, I don't think Cotto is overrated anywhere outside certain parts of the world, certain places online, and anywhere outside this forum, basically.

He did make it into the Rings top 10 P4P, though..

He deserves congratulations for that.

Does he deserve it?.. Sure, I think so. :beerchug:


In Cotto we see two different guys.. I cannot say what it is you see, and you are probably equally perplexed as to why I see something apart.

All I can say is this.. I respect your point of view and intelligence much more than most. You are one of the top, top guys in NSB, IMO..

So I won't question this to such a degree I lose sight of your feeling.


If I was going to pick specific fighters I could see defeating Cotto it could be any of them, or all of them. The guy has the sort of flaws that could give out against elite and upper tier fighters.. Pretty much.

There is a personal preference aspect here.. That's true..

I don't like the older Cotto very much. The android, plodding, basically down-syndrome looking stalker that got to impose his natural strength on handpicked opponents.. You see, Cotto has been given alot of special handling and treatment because of where he's from and the blood coarsing through his veins.. Arum wants the money, but I don't think he has as much respect and appreciation for Miguel as his many supporters and fans do.

Clearly not. And to maintain my role here - deservingly not.


The newer version of him I've been more impressed with. He's been quicker, more intelligent, and somewhat dynamic in there.. Improvement, is something he has clearly demonstrated he's capapable of.

I'm also really liking his will to win. We have tossed around the low blows/fouls alot here.. But, honestly the type of person I am - I say get the win. (I have stated this prior)

And win he did.



..........See, you and others refer to Cotto's impressive recuperative ability's - myself and others see that as extremely generous.

The guy gets stunned and hurt by shots that the other guys seem to shake off, or remain unfazed by entirely. He's also not especially fast, farily crude with his technique, and annoyingly steadfast in his pace and approach.

I'm not a fan of Boxing for those sorts of aesthetics.

I like to see guys do things I could never do. Cotto doesn't show me that.

That's just my personal feeling since you requested it..


As much as I try to bend my conciousness and imagination in the direction of Miguel beating guys like Williams and DLH.. It's a tough sell.

But more so DLH than Williams..

This is a great debate you guys have going here, Addison and Oldgringo!
We need this kind of intelligent discussions here.
Both of you show class which few others in here are capable of.

I agree with Addison for the most part though; Don't think that Cotto would beat Williams right now. Maybe a couple of fights from now...?
De La Hoya, I think, would beat Cotto.

Addison; that fan stuff you're talking about is annoying as anything you care to mention. There's no way you can have a sensible argument with many fanboys who post here.

Oldgringo; You are completely right when you point to history as proof that it's a disadvantage to be inactive.
However, DLH has been competitive in every single fight he's been in, so is there any reason he wouldn't be against a smaller, inexperienced Cotto?

Cheers on that, Tyson. :beerchug:

We respect your game as well. I certainly do.

I think this overrate thing is just too tipsy. In the sense that, it's only based o how well you've HEARD of someone being rated. Really has NOTHING to do with what they did or didn't do.... That being said.. lol.. Mike Tyson.