View Full Version : Who makes boxing look bad, Vitaly or Mike ?


Nautilus
09-22-2004, 09:49 PM
After the Sanders vs Vitaly figtht, Tyson had stated that Vitaly makes boxing look bad.

I look forward to the battle Vitaly vs. Danny ... and to the comments of Tyson regarding the outcome.

Any comments before that, anyone ?

psychopath
09-22-2004, 10:22 PM
If there's anybody who's making boxing look bad it's the INCOMPETENT JUDGES, SENILE REFS and the MONEY SUCKING promoters like ARUM AND DON kING.

Gone were the days where the CHAMPIONS stood tall and proud . . . and will fight any legitimate and worthy opponents whom they feel is a threat to their reign . . . a far cry from what we have now,an era where we have so many champions who ****I'N have the face to Brag for HYPE and yet doesn't have the balls to square off with worthy oppositions.

Nautilus
09-22-2004, 10:33 PM
If there's anybody who's making boxing look bad it's the INCOMPETENT JUDGES, SENILE REFS and the MONEY SUCKING promoters like ARUM AND DON kING.


Agreed. Don King sucks Arum sucks too.

Winter
09-22-2004, 11:05 PM
After the Sanders vs Vitaly figtht, Tyson had stated that Vitaly makes boxing look bad.

I look forward to the battle Vitaly vs. Danny ... and to the comments of Tyson regarding the outcome.

Any comments before that, anyone ?


Maybe what he meant to say was, Vitali is so big and good he makes the other heavyweight boxers look bad. I think Vitali makes others look like bad boxers. Vitali is very good.

The Fix
09-22-2004, 11:23 PM
the judges IMO are the cause for boxings collapse in popularity in recent years. too many incompatent and corrupt judges. if there were a way to score a fight without judges the sport would be perfect.

TheGreat1
09-22-2004, 11:35 PM
It's just bad that VK is the champ right now and hasn't fought anyone that was a real treat to beat him except LL&Bryd who of couse beat him. I would like to see how he does against Toney or even ruiz, hell maybe even rahman.

Nautilus
09-22-2004, 11:50 PM
It's just bad that VK is the champ right now and hasn't fought anyone that was a real treat to beat him except LL&Bryd who of couse beat him. I would like to see how he does against Toney or even ruiz, hell maybe even rahman.

Time will show. Vitaly's next mandatory defense is against Toney. Beating means clear winning. Neither LL nor Byrd clearly beat Vitaly. The LL vs Vit was an equal battle and it's too bad Vit got cut by tangential blows. It's too bad for both LL and Vit. Byrd was clearly loosing before Vit retired on injury. So it did not look like a legitimate beating at all. An example of clear, legitimate beating is the outcome of Hopkins vs Golden Boy.

Neuraxis
09-22-2004, 11:59 PM
He just sat there like a sack of sand.

Nautilus
09-23-2004, 12:31 AM
He just sat there like a sack of sand.

and looked like a man tired of life

Nautilus
09-23-2004, 12:40 AM
This is the truth and far from your question . . . . . .

The question is deliberately provoking, but the root of the question is exactly what your answer had stated.

TheGreat1
09-23-2004, 12:51 AM
Time will show. Vitaly's next mandatory defense is against Toney. Beating means clear winning. Neither LL nor Byrd clearly beat Vitaly. The LL vs Vit was an equal battle and it's too bad Vit got cut by tangential blows. It's too bad for both LL and Vit. Byrd was clearly loosing before Vit retired on injury. So it did not look like a legitimate beating at all. An example of clear, legitimate beating is the outcome of Hopkins vs Golden Boy.

A legitimate beating is when you beat someone so bad that they can't continue because there eye is closed and they can no longer see because of all the blood and the fight has to be stopped. LL would have killed VK if the fight would have continued. VK was a beating fighter just look at his face

Winter
09-23-2004, 12:56 AM
A rematch between Lennox Lewis and Vitali would have been a fun and great fight to watch.

TheGreat1
09-23-2004, 12:58 AM
A rematch between Lennox Lewis and Vitali would have been a fun and great fight to watch.

yes it would have.

Winter, who is that on your aviator?

Nautilus
09-23-2004, 12:59 AM
A legitimate beating is when you beat someone so bad that they can't continue because there eye is closed and they can no longer see because of all the blood and the fight has to be stopped. LL would have killed VK if the fight would have continued. VK was a beating fighter just look at his face

Well, by this criterion you are right, of course. However,
I never like when a fight is stopped on cuts. Ugly cuts are never caused by clean, legitimate punching. Somehow stoppage on cuts does not seem right; it seems plain ugly. I think that they should use some light head-gear in order to prevent cuts, but not knockouts.

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 12:59 AM
So much for Lewis collapsing onto his stool inbetween rounds and stumbling all over the place back to his dressing room after the fight. So much for him only winning the 4th round on 1 scorecard, the 5th round on 1 scorecard, and the 6th round on 2 scorecards. The numbers don't lie:

Klitschko
Jabs: 77/240
Power: 79/192
Total: 156/432

Lewis
Jabs: 52/120
Power: 50/102
Total: 102/222

TheGreat1
09-23-2004, 01:06 AM
Well, by this criterion you are right, of course. However,
I never like when a fight is stopped on cuts. Ugly cuts are never caused by clean, legitimate punching. Somehow stoppage on cuts does not seem right; it seems plain ugly. I think that they should use some light head-gear in order to prevent cuts, but not knockouts.

the one that started the cut may not have been clean, but it was legal, but all the ones after that where clean including the onse that busted his lip. VK was ****ed up, LL focused on that cut and exposed it, that y he was such a great fighter, there is no way VK would have made it through 3 more rounds

Nautilus
09-23-2004, 01:12 AM
the one that started the cut may not have been clean, but it was legal ... LL focused on that cut and exposed it


That's why it was ugly. It was definitely legal, but not moral. It just feels wrong to try to ``expose" the cuts obtained by unclean punching in the first place.

TheGreat1
09-23-2004, 01:19 AM
So much for Lewis collapsing onto his stool inbetween rounds and stumbling all over the place back to his dressing room after the fight. So much for him only winning the 4th round on 1 scorecard, the 5th round on 1 scorecard, and the 6th round on 2 scorecards. The numbers don't lie:

Klitschko
Jabs: 77/240
Power: 79/192
Total: 156/432

Lewis
Jabs: 52/120
Power: 50/102
Total: 102/222

numbers are nise, but don't mean ****. Look how bad Moorer out punched foreman, and look at the end result, or better yet look had Brewster and wlad. Landing alot of punches don't mean **** if they are waek. LL punches although fewer where much more effective.

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 01:57 AM
That's nice and all but I don't see an utterly exhausted Lewis was going to "kill" Vitali.

abdiel2k3
09-23-2004, 02:02 AM
Maybe what he meant to say was, Vitali is so big and good he makes the other heavyweight boxers look bad. I think Vitali makes others look like bad boxers. Vitali is very good.

yup that post confirms it for me
shes defintly one of tatyanas friends
just that this one like Vit more

abdiel2k3
09-23-2004, 02:04 AM
That's why it was ugly. It was definitely legal, but not moral. It just feels wrong to try to ``expose" the cuts obtained by unclean punching in the first place.

whoa whoa dats part of the game
and that cut was caused by a clean punch
wathc the fight again they show it in slow mo
the punch lands
the cut opens

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 02:09 AM
So a clean punch is a punch that grazes the side of his face. You need to go rewatch it.

TheFairPole
09-23-2004, 09:05 AM
You can say what you want for either fighter and who would have won!!! They were both tired at the end and it was a great fight!!! BUT!!! The boxing public knows this wasn't finished!!! Lewis was affraid he was gonna lose his legacy if he lost to Vitali in a rematch!!! Plain and simple fact- Lewis was affraid!!! You can say what you want about his age or his conditioning, That is not Vitali's fault, it is Lennox's!!! A great champ is never affraid to fight anybody, even if they fear they will lose!!! Lewis was affraid to lose to this so called robotic, mediocre, plodding, unknown!!! Regardless of who you think would have won a rematch, Lewis would never look good against Vitali!!! I can never say that a coward is one of the greatest of all time!!! No doubt that he accomplished great things, BUT,if Lewis would have rematched Vitali I would still thnk he was great. Vitali will be champ for a long time.

tracylee
09-23-2004, 11:33 AM
A legitimate beating is when you beat someone so bad that they can't continue because there eye is closed and they can no longer see because of all the blood and the fight has to be stopped. LL would have killed VK if the fight would have continued. VK was a beating fighter just look at his face

ABSOLUTELY!!! That cut came from a LL right hand; not from a headbutt or from tripping on his way into the ring. Lewis won that fight, period. :mad:

tracylee
09-23-2004, 11:36 AM
Well, by this criterion you are right, of course. However,
I never like when a fight is stopped on cuts. Ugly cuts are never caused by clean, legitimate punching. Somehow stoppage on cuts does not seem right; it seems plain ugly. I think that they should use some light head-gear in order to prevent cuts, but not knockouts.

Ugly cut's are never caused by clean punches??? Somebody forgot to tell Gatti that in several of his fight's.

mic573
09-23-2004, 11:50 AM
They only reason why Lewis went at Vitaly is because he wasn't in shape. The reason he wasn't in shape is because he wasn't taking the man he was supposed to fight the night seriously. That wasn't Vitaly fault but I think a in shape Lewis beats Vitaly. You have to remember when Lewis feels their is danger most of the time he comes in serious and ready to kick ass. He would box Vitaly and maybe stop him.

DR. FREECLOUD
09-23-2004, 12:25 PM
imo only true champs come prepared for battle everytime. not just when they think there is a tough battle. a true champ doesn't take anyone lightly. and a true champ would live up to his word and give the rematch he promised. i am not a huge klitscko fan but damn lewis pissed me off. i watched that fight with unbiased. lewis wasn't as impressive to me as he was to some. i felt vit had the better shots. personally i think had the fight gone on lewis would have been ktfo.

tracylee
09-23-2004, 12:33 PM
imo only true champs come prepared for battle everytime. not just when they think there is a tough battle. a true champ doesn't take anyone lightly. and a true champ would live up to his word and give the rematch he promised. i am not a huge klitscko fan but damn lewis pissed me off. i watched that fight with unbiased. lewis wasn't as impressive to me as he was to some. i felt vit had the better shots. personally i think had the fight gone on lewis would have been ktfo.

:p :p thats ok, we were bound to disagree sometime!! :D

I do wish he had given Vitali the rematch, if only to erase the doubts

mic573
09-23-2004, 12:39 PM
imo only true champs come prepared for battle everytime. not just when they think there is a tough battle. a true champ doesn't take anyone lightly. and a true champ would live up to his word and give the rematch he promised. i am not a huge klitscko fan but damn lewis pissed me off. i watched that fight with unbiased. lewis wasn't as impressive to me as he was to some. i felt vit had the better shots. personally i think had the fight gone on lewis would have been ktfo.

That was the problem with Lewis but he always came back and won convincingly. I would of love to see a rematch so I can't disagree with you on that one. I had Vitaly winning a close fight up until the stoppage but Lewis was really starting to rip Vitaly with some good shots. He was also dead tired so we don't know what would of happened. The rematch wouldn't have played out like that though. I think that was the best Vitaly could do and you and I both know that wasn't the best Lennox in the ring that night.

DR. FREECLOUD
09-23-2004, 12:45 PM
:p :p thats ok, we were bound to disagree sometime!! :D

I do wish he had given Vitali the rematch, if only to erase the doubts

that fight wasn't that lopsided so this was an easy one to disagree on. and lewis will still go down as one of the top heavies. just one of the top heavies that knew when he had met his match and didn't want to take a loss as his last fight :D

ejk22
09-23-2004, 12:54 PM
I watched that fight twice and the second time I noticed Vitali slowing because he was exhausted as was Lewis but I think it was only a matter of time before Vitali would have gone down more from exhaustion rather than a pounding. I think Lewis ring experience in big fights would have helped him prevail even though he was tired.

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 02:27 PM
They only reason why Lewis went at Vitaly is because he wasn't in shape. The reason he wasn't in shape is because he wasn't taking the man he was supposed to fight the night seriously. That wasn't Vitaly fault but I think a in shape Lewis beats Vitaly. You have to remember when Lewis feels their is danger most of the time he comes in serious and ready to kick ass. He would box Vitaly and maybe stop him.

If this were true shouldn't Lewis have fought Vitali and proven that he would have had no trouble beating Vitali while in shape?

guru
09-23-2004, 02:31 PM
If this were true shouldn't Lewis have fought Vitali and proven that he would have had no trouble beating Vitali while in shape?

i think lewis realizes he would have to train hard to beat VK and that was something lewis just was not interested in doing... lewis and manny have admitted they underestimated VK, so I'm sure they know lewis would have to go balls to wall in training to beat him....

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 02:35 PM
I guess Lewis and Corrie Sanders have been hanging out way too much. Either way he should have retired right after the fight, and not sat around classlessly instead of hording the belt for 8 months waiting to see if Vitali would lose to Johnson first.

tracylee
09-23-2004, 02:53 PM
Classless? Lewis may be many things, but classless is not one of them. Regardless of him rematching Vitali or not, few boxer's have displayed more class in and out of the ring than Lewis over the years. Him taking his time in making a life altering decision doesnt lower his class and erase his accomplishments. He's not the first to take time deciding, and he sure wont be the last.

ejk22
09-23-2004, 03:35 PM
Lewis is one boxer I respect alot. He carried himself properly in and out of the ring. The only thing that bugged me about Lewis was that he refused to fight both Byrd and Ruiz and instead relinquished his belts. I know he was not scared of those two clowns.

jack_the_rippuh
09-23-2004, 05:19 PM
I agree, the Klitschkos make boxing look bad.

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 05:32 PM
Regardless of how he has handled himself before I am talking about how he handled his retirement. Try to stick to the subject matter. So going back on your word is now not classless as well as waiting to see if Vitali lost? Please, he could have and should have handled his retirement much better, and it is going to forever stain his legacy.

tracylee
09-23-2004, 06:29 PM
Regardless of how he has handled himself before I am talking about how he handled his retirement. Try to stick to the subject matter. So going back on your word is now not classless as well as waiting to see if Vitali lost? Please, he could have and should have handled his retirement much better, and it is going to forever stain his legacy.

His retirement is his business, not Vitali's or anyone else's....him deciding not to rematch doesnt make him scared or classless. It may stain his legacy in your eye's but not in mine. The way Vitali has whined over the whole thing stain's his image in my eye's.

psychopath
09-23-2004, 06:48 PM
Friends, I have a strong feeling that Lewis will be out there again in the very near future and that Klitscho rematch will be a reality.

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 06:50 PM
As Jim Lampley said it after Vitali beat Johnson. Did Lewis see dollar signs or a stop sign? Apparently he saw a stop sign.

tracylee
09-23-2004, 06:50 PM
Friends, I have a strong feeling that Lewis will be out there again in the very near future and that Klitscho rematch will be a reality.

I wish he would, but seriously doubt it...he may be the only one that I believe when he say's he's out for good. He's getting married, etc.. and his mom has been after him for years to quit. But, we can hope.

tracylee
09-23-2004, 06:51 PM
As Jim Lampley said it after Vitali beat Johnson. Did Lewis see dollar signs or a stop sign? Apparently he saw a stop sign.

Putting any validity in anything that Lampley say's isnt the best idea; unless of course it's just what you want to hear and believe.

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 06:53 PM
So why did Lewis wait so long retire?

tracylee
09-23-2004, 06:57 PM
So why did Lewis wait so long retire?

Youre asking me? I'd never think of putting word's in someone else's mouth, especially someone I've never met and dont know personally. If I had to guess, perhaps considering the seriousness of the decision, maybe he wanted to really, really THINK about it first? No one know's but Lewis..but I honestly dont think it's because he afraid of Vitali...the thought of Lewis being afraid of anyone makes me laugh

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 07:04 PM
So he's not afraid of losing to Vitali, yet he waits to see if he loses to Johnson. Lewis didn't want to retire, he wanted some easy big money fights with RJJ and/or Tyson, but Vitali was in the way. Lewis is either afraid of tarnishing his record by beating every opponent he ever fought or he is just lazy.

tracylee
09-23-2004, 07:11 PM
So he's not afraid of losing to Vitali, yet he waits to see if he loses to Johnson. Lewis didn't want to retire, he wanted some easy big money fights with RJJ and/or Tyson, but Vitali was in the way. Lewis is either afraid of tarnishing his record by beating every opponent he ever fought or he is just lazy.

Waited til he beat Johnson? Thats your preception of it, that doesnt make it true. Unless you take up residence inside his head, you (or anybody else)dont know exactly why he waited til the exact moment he did. It's funny how you claim to know what he wanted, "big money fight's", etc..you are not him. Unless youre a mind reader, you dont know for sure. You think what you want to think; that isnt the same as knowing it. Claiming he was afraid of Vitali doesnt make Vitali a better fighter except in your eyes

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 07:15 PM
Calling Manny the day of Klitschko v. Johnson to talk about the fight while you are at a best friends wedding shows an unnatural interest about the fight.

Are you accusing the BBC of lying?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/sports_talk/2707025.stm

tracylee
09-23-2004, 07:21 PM
Calling Manny the day of Klitschko v. Johnson to talk about the fight while you are at a best friends wedding shows an unnatural interest about the fight.

Are you accusing the BBC of lying?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/sports_talk/2707025.stm

Are you cliaming that they wouldnt lie? Please!! An unnatural interest in the fight? NO...a natural boxer's interest in boxing. But, Klitschko fan's do this you see, they will use any little thing they can think of as proof that Lennox is afraid or whatever. Honesly, his fan's is the number one reason I dont like him; that and his constant whining.

Nautilus
09-23-2004, 08:25 PM
Ugly cut's are never caused by clean punches??? Somebody forgot to tell Gatti that in several of his fight's.


I would prefer to have LL KO or outbox Vitaly or have it the other way around. This "working the cut" aspect of LL's win, or any other win for that matter, seems aesthetic.

A rematch would be great. LL is a great boxer and Vitaly fought him well.

Neuraxis
09-23-2004, 09:14 PM
The BBC is British so they love Lewis. You actually let fans effect whether you like or dislike a fighter.

dodge
09-24-2004, 02:00 AM
Maybe what he meant to say was, Vitali is so big and good he makes the other heavyweight boxers look bad. I think Vitali makes others look like bad boxers. Vitali is very good.
Tatyana???????????

Nautilus
09-24-2004, 02:09 AM
[QUOTE=dodge][QUOTE]

Dodge, what happened to your face ? :eek:

TheFairPole
09-24-2004, 03:07 AM
Everybody says that Vitali fought an out of shape Lewis!!! What makes you think that the shots that Vitali was dishing out to Lewis wasn't tiring him out!!! Also when Lewis tried to man handle Vitali and put his weight on him Vitali would just swing Lewis around and control him!!! I think this is what tired Lewis out, not that he didn't train!!! I will also say that Vitali fought very stupid!!! He ad Lewis finished easily in the second round but didn't realize it!!! Even Golota said that all Klitschko had to do is keep his hands up and he would have won easily!!! In a rematch I doubt Vitali would make this mistake again!!!

anthetamine
09-24-2004, 03:16 AM
i doubt VK would make that mistake again, thats why lewis wont be coming back out of retirement, he has recently made it clear that he wanted to be a fighter who left at the top of his game, not one that stays around hoping for more glory (holyfield/tyson)

he gets respect for this, and even VK has admitted he fought an out of shape lewis, he was tiring and it may well have been due to the way VK was fighting his fight, that still means that lewis couldnt adapt like he used to in the past....... and therefore he was out of shape

tracylee
09-24-2004, 10:16 AM
I would prefer to have LL KO or outbox Vitaly or have it the other way around. This "working the cut" aspect of LL's win, or any other win for that matter, seems aesthetic.

A rematch would be great. LL is a great boxer and Vitaly fought him well.

I think it's pretty dirty to work a cut, but I've yet to see just one fighter not take advantage of that particular weakness. A rematch would be a great thing for many reasons; I just dont think he's coming out of retirement cause he seem's quite happy

tracylee
09-24-2004, 10:18 AM
The BBC is British so they love Lewis. You actually let fans effect whether you like or dislike a fighter.


The Klitschko brothers? Absolutely. It's kinda hard not to

Dye
05-10-2006, 05:59 PM
vitaly would have beat lennox later in the fight