roy jones made a living of makeing bigger fights look like crap..he was so good that ppl dont give him credit for being a SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT and takeing on a HEAVYWEIGHT and winning...ray robinson could only dream of makeing a career of beating bigger fighters..he had a hard time against joey maxim...roy in his prime beats maxim with 1 hand (seriously)...so hale to the great 1 ROY JONES JR :)

I'll be the first on this thread to say NO ONE ELSE POST HERE. It's a waste of your time. Read something that won't destroy your mind.

Do I really need to post the RJJ Hall of Shame again?

I'll be the first on this thread to say NO ONE ELSE POST HERE. It's a waste of your time. Read something that won't destroy your mind.
This is one of the rare times that i disagree with you, gringo. I don't get why guys like you don't give Jones more credit. I mean, if Jose wants to call roy a ***, that's one thing. He's a dick. But not only do i generally agree with you, you're usually pretty reasonable. It can be fairly stated that the last time a guy who started his career under the middlewight limit gave a heavyweight such a hard time was when Micky Walker held Jack Sharkey to a draw. They were at the same weight disparity, by the way. Jones was thirty three pounds lighter than Ruiz, Walker thirty one pounds lighter than Sharkey. Seriously, man, give credit where credit is due.

Cause Jones put a beating on his boy Toney, that's why he's hating..

jones got kayoed his last two fights because he shed muscle that his body needed, in turn losing all that weight depletes your fluids, and that includes brain fluid, which makes it much easier to get knocked out, the guy made toney look stupid, my man bernard couldnt land solidly on him, in his prime he was unreal to watch, and i dont even like jones

Do I really need to post the RJJ Hall of Shame again?
Come on man, you're not gonna seriously say that Roy ducked people, are you? Because that's bull****. Really, bull****. If you have a problem with the way he fought, that's fine. Yeh, a lotta times he was boring and chose not to finish things when he could have. If it's because he speant six or seven years cleaning out the light heavyweight division and making everyone there look like amateurs, that's fine. But keep in mind he ducked no one. The only fighters that might have beaten him were a weight class or two above or below. you can't duck people not in your own weight class. Almost everyone he beat was ranked by The Ring at the time. Also, Dariusz chose not to fight in America, and as the better fighter and the bigger name, Jones didn't need to cross the ocean. it would have proved nothing.

Furthermore, I dunno if you've ever seen him fights, but a lotta DM's stoppages and decisions were hugely controversial. Also, their stoppage ratios are almost the exact same, and the only top figthers Michalszewski ever stopped were Jones leftovers. Jones is clearly the harder hitter. Few men posted better resumes, and nothing you can say or quote will ever change that.

Cause Jones put a beating on his boy Toney, that's why he's hating..
Yeh, but see, Toney's my boy too. He's one of my favorite fighters. And Gringo is usually able to look past his bias and at the real issue. I mean, you don't hear him saying that Tarver's the savior of boxing, do you? No, cuz he's level-headed and he has good judgement. Not when it comes to RJ, though.

he fought in multiple weight divisions and fought who was there. period. i hated jones forever but now that i can reflect on his career he was an amazing talent, and i may be nuts but i think with a year or more off he can come back at cruiserweight and become the champ there

Who are you suppose to be his assistant? Cause I coulda' sworn my comment was directly to him..

sorry man i guess i forgot my hearing aid cause i didnt hear who you were addressing.........

That's why I quoted it....duhhhhh..

Roy was the greatest of an era, I agree.

i dont spend my life posting like you do asswipe so forgive me im a little green on the rules, and if you dont want anyone else commenting why dont you start your own private chatroom flamer

That's why I quoted it....duhhhhh..

more like Ass Clown Champion

Come on man, you're not gonna seriously say that Roy ducked people, are you? Because that's bull****. Really, bull****. If you have a problem with the way he fought, that's fine. Yeh, a lotta times he was boring and chose not to finish things when he could have. If it's because he speant six or seven years cleaning out the light heavyweight division and making everyone there look like amateurs, that's fine. But keep in mind he ducked no one. The only fighters that might have beaten him were a weight class or two above or below. you can't duck people not in your own weight class. Almost everyone he beat was ranked by The Ring at the time. Also, Dariusz chose not to fight in America, and as the better fighter and the bigger name, Jones didn't need to cross the ocean. it would have proved nothing.

Furthermore, I dunno if you've ever seen him fights, but a lotta DM's stoppages and decisions were hugely controversial. Also, their stoppage ratios are almost the exact same, and the only top figthers Michalszewski ever stopped were Jones leftovers. Jones is clearly the harder hitter. Few men posted better resumes, and nothing you can say or quote will ever change that.

I've tried to get this answered before, but no one ever has. Why did RJJ not fight Rocchigiani for the WBC belt instead accepting the belt which the WBC stole from Rocchigiani who beat Nunn who had been RJJ's mandatory for years?

roccighani? who cares about that loser? rjj wouldnt have made **** fighting him thats why

i dont spend my life posting like you do asswipe so forgive me im a little green on the rules, and if you dont want anyone else commenting why dont you start your own private chatroom flamer

You got a problem with me contributing to the site, assistant?

roccighani? who cares about that loser? rjj wouldnt have made **** fighting him thats why

He beat Nunn, and for some reason RJJ ducked Nunn for years. And you didn't answer the question.

This is one of the rare times that i disagree with you, gringo. I don't get why guys like you don't give Jones more credit. I mean, if Jose wants to call roy a ***, that's one thing. He's a dick. But not only do i generally agree with you, you're usually pretty reasonable. It can be fairly stated that the last time a guy who started his career under the middlewight limit gave a heavyweight such a hard time was when Micky Walker held Jack Sharkey to a draw. They were at the same weight disparity, by the way. Jones was thirty three pounds lighter than Ruiz, Walker thirty one pounds lighter than Sharkey. Seriously, man, give credit where credit is due.

I actually like RJJ. I'm not hating. I didn't like the implication of RJJ being better than Ray Robinson. It was just his opinion. I guess I should have read it like, "RJJ deserves more credit."

Come on man, you're not gonna seriously say that Roy ducked people, are you? Because that's bull****. Really, bull****. If you have a problem with the way he fought, that's fine. Yeh, a lotta times he was boring and chose not to finish things when he could have. If it's because he speant six or seven years cleaning out the light heavyweight division and making everyone there look like amateurs, that's fine. But keep in mind he ducked no one. The only fighters that might have beaten him were a weight class or two above or below. you can't duck people not in your own weight class. Almost everyone he beat was ranked by The Ring at the time. Also, Dariusz chose not to fight in America, and as the better fighter and the bigger name, Jones didn't need to cross the ocean. it would have proved nothing.

Furthermore, I dunno if you've ever seen him fights, but a lotta DM's stoppages and decisions were hugely controversial. Also, their stoppage ratios are almost the exact same, and the only top figthers Michalszewski ever stopped were Jones leftovers. Jones is clearly the harder hitter. Few men posted better resumes, and nothing you can say or quote will ever change that.

And there stoppage ratios at LHW are not the same DM had a KO % of 80% and RJJ had a KO % of 60%.

I'm not mad that Roy beat Toney. It's not nearly as bad as Tito beating Sweet Pea. Styles make fights and Toney wasn't the right fighter to beat Roy at that time.

The only people I heard about Roy possibly ducking are Benn and Nunn.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not mad that Roy beat Toney. It's not nearly as bad as Tito beating Sweet Pea. Styles make fights and Toney wasn't the right fighter to beat Roy at that time.


When Toney fought RJJ he had to lose 47 lbs in six weeks, he did this by
dehydrating and weakening himself. i've always wished RJJ would have given Toney a rematch at a higher weight when Toney would be stronger, but Roy was too smart for that

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not mad that Roy beat Toney. It's not nearly as bad as Tito beating Sweet Pea. Styles make fights and Toney wasn't the right fighter to beat Roy at that time.


When Toney fought RJJ he had to lose 47 lbs in six weeks, he did this by
dehydrating and weakening himself. i've always wished RJJ would have given Toney a rematch at a higher weight when Toney would be stronger, but Roy was too smart for that

And I bet you're one of the people who hate the excuses Roy Jones Jr. gives..

No, i actually like Roy Jones, i was sad to see him knocked out by Johnson

roy jones made a living of makeing bigger fights look like crap..he was so good that ppl dont give him credit for being a SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT and takeing on a HEAVYWEIGHT and winning...ray robinson could only dream of makeing a career of beating bigger fighters..he had a hard time against joey maxim...roy in his prime beats maxim with 1 hand (seriously)...so hale to the great 1 ROY JONES JR :)

Or Robinson wouldn't have had the nerve to go after the weakest by far of the 4 heavyweight champs with a ref who wouldn't allow the heavyweight to fight his fight and them claim some huge victory.

Roy Jones is probably the greatest as in terms of talent and God given ability but he is far from the greatest fighter ever. After his God given abilities started to fade he pretty much didn't have anything as a back up. I give Jones the credit for beating Ruiz and even picked him to beat Ruiz but I would have given more credit if he hadn't picked the weakest of the champions at that time.

roy jones made a living of makeing bigger fights look like crap..he was so good that ppl dont give him credit for being a SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT and takeing on a HEAVYWEIGHT and winning...ray robinson could only dream of makeing a career of beating bigger fighters..he had a hard time against joey maxim...roy in his prime beats maxim with 1 hand (seriously)...so hale to the great 1 ROY JONES JR :)

actualy most people dont know it but roy started his proffesional career as a superwelter weight. his first few fights as a pro were at 154, ofcourse thats cause he was still growing into his body but, just making a point :D

he schooled ruiz, tht ref does title fights all the time, he was fair, he didnt let ruiz hang all over rj, what you like to see that ****? ruiz is ****, i cant wait to see the *** pole kayo his ass

Or Robinson wouldn't have had the nerve to go after the weakest by far of the 4 heavyweight champs with a ref who wouldn't allow the heavyweight to fight his fight and them claim some huge victory.

i dont understand what all the **** was about ruiz not getting to "fight his fight". a ref never lets two guys completly punch their way out of a clinch, the ref always steps in to stop them. ruiz could'nt hug his way to victory cause jones was to fast not because of the ref.

i'd like to see Ruiz die in the ring

actualy most people dont know it but roy started his proffesional career as a superwelter weight. his first few fights as a pro were at 154, ofcourse thats cause he was still growing into his body but, just making a point :D

Actually he weighed 157 lbs for his first fight.

he schooled ruiz, tht ref does title fights all the time, he was fair, he didnt let ruiz hang all over rj, what you like to see that ****? ruiz is ****, i cant wait to see the *** pole kayo his ass

No, I think that Ruiz should not be allowed to clinch so much in every fight, not just against RJJ.

i dont understand what all the **** was about ruiz not getting to "fight his fight". a ref never lets two guys completly punch their way out of a clinch, the ref always steps in to stop them. ruiz could'nt hug his way to victory cause jones was to fast not because of the ref.

Nady judges almost as strictly as the refs do at the Olympics.

he ran after ruiz!!!
thats what he did!!!
unlike pacquiao who
slams his opponents
thats why you cant
consider RJJ as
the greatest
PACQUIAO IS THE GREATEST!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

he ran after ruiz!!!
thats what he did!!!
unlike pacquiao who
slams his opponents
thats why you cant
consider RJJ as
the greatest
PACQUIAO IS THE GREATEST!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


We have a troll on the loose in here. IGNORE.

Those saying Roy ducked Nunn & Benn....don't have their timelines worked out properly.

Tell me, at what stage during Roy's prime...was Michael Nunn having success in the same weight class as Roy ?
I'll tell you.....none (nunn).

Roy won his 168lb. title just a few weeks before Nunn LOST his, to the ordinary Frank Liles. So, you're telling me Roy should have fought that version of Nunn ?

Nunn had one successful fight at 175.....& that was against Willaim Guthrie...who was coming off a knockout loss to Reggie Johnson. A fight in which Guthrie was taken out on a STRETCHER.


At no point was Michael Nunn in a position to demand, or truly deserve, a title shot.



A lot of you don't check your facts, & that's why people like myself are here.

Those saying Roy ducked Nunn & Benn....don't have their timelines worked out properly.

Tell me, at what stage during Roy's prime...was Michael Nunn having success in the same weight class as Roy ?
I'll tell you.....none (nunn).

Roy won his 168lb. title just a few weeks before Nunn LOST his, to the ordinary Frank Liles. So, you're telling me Roy should have fought that version of Nunn ?

Nunn had one successful fight at 175.....& that was against Willaim Guthrie...who was coming off a knockout loss to Reggie Johnson. A fight in which Guthrie was taken out on a STRETCHER.


At no point was Michael Nunn in a position to demand, or truly deserve, a title shot.



A lot of you don't check your facts, & that's why people like myself are here.

What planet are you from? Deserving or not Nunn was Jones WBC mandatory from more than 2 years without Jones fighting him. That's when he gave up the his belts to make the jump up to heavyweight to fight Douglas. Then when Nunn lost to Rocchigiani, he decided to stay at LHW, and have the WBC strip Rocchigiani of the belt and give it back to him.

Roy Jones does deserve credit for going up to fight a heavyweight, when his prime weight class was 168. But some of you guys speak as if he was the first to jump multiple weight classes. So he beats a couple of bigger opponents, yet some not very skilled or talented, and that makes him the greatest fighter of all-time? I can live with those you say that he is the greatest of his era (which he probably is), but he's not even close to the best there ever was.

Jones fought from 154-heavyweight. That's a jump of 5 weight classes. Acquitted stated that Ray Robinson could never dream of beating fighters bigger than him, or something of that nature. I suppose he forgot that Robinson started his career at LIGHTWEIGHT and was a natural 147 pounder. Yet he was still beating Joey Maxim, who is light years better than Ruiz, at lt. heavyweight, SIX weight classes above where he started. And Robinson fought far superior opposition along the way up.

Another example of high success against much larger opposition: Roberto Duran, who began his career at bantamweight and fought successfully up to middleweight, a jump of EIGHT divisions. And again, his opposition was ten times better than Roy’s. Jones didn’t fight anyone on par with Esteban DeJesus or Sugar Ray Leonard.

Then there is Harry Greb, who possibly has the most impressive resume of any fighter that ever lived. While weighing between 154-165 he fought legends such as Walker, Norfolk, Blackburn, 175 greats Rosenbloom, Loughran, Tunney, Dillon, and many capable heavyweights. And he beat some of the greats when he was blind in one eye.

There were so many, many more fighters that had tremendous success against much larger opponents: Sam Langford (fought from welterweight to heavy), Henry Armstrong (simultaneously held 126, 135, 147 World Title belts and should’ve gotten the 160 title too), Ezzard Charles (middleweight-heavy), Mickey Walker (147-heavy), and the list goes on and on.

Don’t perceive this as a Jones hate post. I give him tremendous props for doing what he did in such impressive fashion. I simply wanted to say that Jones wasn’t the first and only fighter to move up in weight class. Others have done it, some against better opposition.

Neuraxis...

So what if Nunn was Roy's mandatory....what does that mean ?

Michale Nunn was a NOTHING at Lt. heavy....he had beaten no one to even earn that spot.

Roy would have destroyed him,. Everyone knew this.
I don't know of a single fight fan who thought Roy-Nunn was a fight worth considering.

Maybe you did....which shows me you think the sanctioning bodies ratings are correct.

Roy Jones does deserve credit for going up to fight a heavyweight, when his prime weight class was 168. But some of you guys speak as if he was the first to jump multiple weight classes. So he beats a couple of bigger opponents, yet some not very skilled or talented, and that makes him the greatest fighter of all-time? I can live with those you say that he is the greatest of his era (which he probably is), but he's not even close to the best there ever was.

Jones fought from 154-heavyweight. That's a jump of 5 weight classes. Acquitted stated that Ray Robinson could never dream of beating fighters bigger than him, or something of that nature. I suppose he forgot that Robinson started his career at LIGHTWEIGHT and was a natural 147 pounder. Yet he was still beating Joey Maxim, who is light years better than Ruiz, at lt. heavyweight, SIX weight classes above where he started. And Robinson fought far superior opposition along the way up.

Another example of high success against much larger opposition: Roberto Duran, who began his career at bantamweight and fought successfully up to middleweight, a jump of EIGHT divisions. And again, his opposition was ten times better than Roy’s. Jones didn’t fight anyone on par with Esteban DeJesus or Sugar Ray Leonard.

Then there is Harry Greb, who possibly has the most impressive resume of any fighter that ever lived. While weighing between 154-165 he fought legends such as Walker, Norfolk, Blackburn, 175 greats Rosenbloom, Loughran, Tunney, Dillon, and many capable heavyweights. And he beat some of the greats when he was blind in one eye.

There were so many, many more fighters that had tremendous success against much larger opponents: Sam Langford (fought from welterweight to heavy), Henry Armstrong (simultaneously held 126, 135, 147 World Title belts and should’ve gotten the 160 title too), Ezzard Charles (middleweight-heavy), Mickey Walker (147-heavy), and the list goes on and on.

Don’t perceive this as a Jones hate post. I give him tremendous props for doing what he did in such impressive fashion. I simply wanted to say that Jones wasn’t the first and only fighter to move up in weight class. Others have done it, some against better opposition.

Since when did RJJ start at 154?

http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001758

The 4 heavyweight beltholders at the time were Lewis, Byrd, Wlad, and Ruiz. Shame on RJJ.

Roy started his career at 154.

He beat Stephan Johnson in his second fight....Ron Admunsen shortly thereafter.

These were televised bouts.....fought in the 154lb weight class.

Roy started his career at 154.

He beat Stephan Johnson in his second fight....Ron Admunsen shortly thereafter.

These were televised bouts.....fought in the 154lb weight class.

So I guess you should tell Boxrec to correct their "error" then.

Neuraxis...

So what if Nunn was Roy's mandatory....what does that mean ?

Michale Nunn was a NOTHING at Lt. heavy....he had beaten no one to even earn that spot.

Roy would have destroyed him,. Everyone knew this.
I don't know of a single fight fan who thought Roy-Nunn was a fight worth considering.

Maybe you did....which shows me you think the sanctioning bodies ratings are correct.

Why do you give RJJ a free pass? In 1997 Michael Nunn was RJJ WBC mandatory, Roy gave up the WBC belt and said that he was going to make the jump up to heavyweight to fight Douglas. Nunn fights Rocchigiani and loses. Rocchigiani thus won the WBC light heavyweight title. In his next fight he loses to DM, so thus DM should have won yet another belt making that every single major LHW belt. 6 months after Nunn lost to Rocchigiani Jones decides not to fight Douglas after all. The WBC suddenly declares Rocchigiani to be the interim champ and gives the belt back to RJJ. Shouldn't RJJ have had to beat Rocchigiani in order to get the belt back? If any of the fighters that I liked pulled something like that, I would have disowned them on the spot.

...............

...............

Alright...

roy jones made a living of makeing bigger fights look like crap..he was so good that ppl dont give him credit for being a SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT and takeing on a HEAVYWEIGHT and winning...ray robinson could only dream of makeing a career of beating bigger fighters..he had a hard time against joey maxim...roy in his prime beats maxim with 1 hand (seriously)...so hale to the great 1 ROY JONES JR :)

couldnt have said it better
roy was small for light heavy
its incredible he made it as far as he did
almost always was the smaller guy

couldnt have said it better
roy was small for light heavy
its incredible he made it as far as he did
almost always was the smaller guy

For real. No matter what Jones decides to do, i'm behind him 100%

Why do you give RJJ a free pass? In 1997 Michael Nunn was RJJ WBC mandatory, Roy gave up the WBC belt and said that he was going to make the jump up to heavyweight to fight Douglas. Nunn fights Rocchigiani and loses. Rocchigiani thus won the WBC light heavyweight title. In his next fight he loses to DM, so thus DM should have won yet another belt making that every single major LHW belt. 6 months after Nunn lost to Rocchigiani Jones decides not to fight Douglas after all. The WBC suddenly declares Rocchigiani to be the interim champ and gives the belt back to RJJ. Shouldn't RJJ have had to beat Rocchigiani in order to get the belt back? If any of the fighters that I liked pulled something like that, I would have disowned them on the spot.
How the hell is this Jones' fault? Jose Sulaiman has, is, and always will be a slimy bastard. I repeat, Roy did not give himself back the belt, Jose did. Argue it all you want, but that there is facts. I wouldn't have taken a fight against Rochigianni after he lost to Michalszewski either. And there's no way I would ever fight a house fighter in Germany. Or Texas.

How the hell is this Jones' fault? Jose Sulaiman has, is, and always will be a slimy bastard. I repeat, Roy did not give himself back the belt, Jose did. Argue it all you want, but that there is facts. I wouldn't have taken a fight against Rochigianni after he lost to Michalszewski either. And there's no way I would ever fight a house fighter in Germany. Or Texas.


I definently agree

How the hell is this Jones' fault? Jose Sulaiman has, is, and always will be a slimy bastard. I repeat, Roy did not give himself back the belt, Jose did. Argue it all you want, but that there is facts. I wouldn't have taken a fight against Rochigianni after he lost to Michalszewski either. And there's no way I would ever fight a house fighter in Germany. Or Texas.

Just because someone gives you something doesn't mean that you have to accept it.

I definently agree

I definately disagree.

I definately disagree.


hypothetical: so if it was Vitali in Roy's situation, you would still say he should not accept the belt and guaranteed oportunities to capitalize on the situation?

hypothetical: so if it was Vitali in Roy's situation, you would still say he should not accept the belt and guaranteed oportunities to capitalize on the situation?

Imagine the outcry that would happen if one of the major sanctioning bodies just stripped their beltholder and gave the belt to Vitali. If anything like that ever happened and if he accepted it, I would no longer be a Klitschko fan.

And there stoppage ratios at LHW are not the same DM had a KO % of 80% and RJJ had a KO % of 60%.

Dude, you're wrong. He had a kayo rate of 67% in ligh heavy title fights before he moved to heavyweight. (In other words, when this matchup was viable.) Dariusz' was 76%, it's true, but I think most people would admit Roy fought tougher competition. if you need numerical proof it looks like this:

Roy beat six titleholders. Dariusz four, and I'm including the WBO belt in this count.

Roy beat four undefeated fighters, and he knocked three out. Dariusz two, although he did kayo them both. Of the others, six had one defeat on his record, and four of them were knocked out. Two guys had lost once before fighting Dariusz, and both of them lasted the distance. Of the fighters Jones beat, the largest number of losses any of them had was 5, and that was Reggie Johnson, a two-time titlist. Of Dariusz victims, the largest number of losses was 7, and that was Nestor Giovanni, who briefly held the WBO title, and I'm sure most of us had never heard of him before this post.

I think that without a doubt, the toughest guy Michalszewski ever beat was Virgil Hill. Jones' toughest opponent at light heavy could have been...well, it could have been three-time titlist Mike McCallum, or maybe two-time titlist and DM victim Virgil Hill, or maybe two-time titlist Reggie Johnson, or perhaps eventual conqueror Antonio Tarver. I'd probably go with Tarver, because that was at the very least the toughest win of Jones' career. I do understand that Tarver fought Jones after a RJ-DM matchup was an impossibility.

Jones' weakest opponent was certainly Richard Frazier. No one's going to try to justify that except by saying that if you want to keep your belts, you have to fight mandatories. Dariusz' weakest opponent was definitely Everardo Armenta, whose biggest win came against 25-10 Jaime Montano. Armenta was 20-5 at the time. Frazier's toughest opponent was 25-5-1 Anthony Hembrick, or maybe a rookie MO Harris. I dunno who would argue that Armenta tougher than Frazier.

Jones knocked Julio Gonzalez down three times, lost one round against him, and for whatever reason, decided not to stop him. We've all heard the Gerald Mclellan theory, so I won't repeat it. Michalszewski, as I'm sure you know, lost to Julio Gonzalez.

Anyway, all of this goes to say that Jones may have posted worse numbers, but there was no twenty-point disparity. Also, Jones fought at a much higher level of competition, and even the weakest of the weak fighters on his record is better than some of those Michalszewski beat. Furthermore, judging by performances against common opponents, Roy is a more effective puncher. Of course, I only cited their performances against Gonzalez, but if I went down the list of common opponents, Jones would have knocked more of them out more conclusively.

Imagine the outcry that would happen if one of the major sanctioning bodies just stripped their beltholder and gave the belt to Vitali. If anything like that ever happened and if he accepted it, I would no longer be a Klitschko fan.


sounds good to me. I think it was wrong as well, i just dont fault roy thats all. sorry :(

I would still be a Vitali fan. At least, if the circumstances were the same as they were in Jones case. He vacated a title that he had won, and then was awarded it back, albeit unfairly. If he had lost to Rochigianni, thought about moving to heavy and then was given the title back without ever having to fight Graciano, your argument would hold water, but he didn't and it doesn't.

Look, the WBC treated Rochigianni unfairly. I totally agree. But Jones had already held the WBC title before he was considering moving up to heavyweight. And as for people who argue that DM won the linear championship when he "unified" the titles against Rochigianni, they are full of ****, because Rochigianni was never the linear champ. He never beat Jones, and by the time DM fought Rochigianni, he had already been stripped of his other two belts. He unified the WBO with nothing else. There was no linear champion during the nineties. The guy who had the best claim to the linear championship was Jones, because he absolutely cleaned the division out. And actually did unify the titles.

Oh, and I don't really feel like mentioning this, but Rochigianni has basically been retired for two years when he fought Michszewski, and would have had to give the belt up anyway. Don't forget, the titles had been fractured since Spinks left the division. They were never unified at one time until Jones did it. I will repeat, there was NO linear champion, and Jones was the only one who really had a right to say that he was the best fighter in the division.

Dude, you're wrong. He had a kayo rate of 67% in ligh heavy title fights before he moved to heavyweight. (In other words, when this matchup was viable.) Dariusz' was 76%, it's true, but I think most people would admit Roy fought tougher competition. if you need numerical proof it looks like this:

Roy beat six titleholders. Dariusz four, and I'm including the WBO belt in this count.

Roy beat four undefeated fighters, and he knocked three out. Dariusz two, although he did kayo them both. Of the others, six had one defeat on his record, and four of them were knocked out. Two guys had lost once before fighting Dariusz, and both of them lasted the distance. Of the fighters Jones beat, the largest number of losses any of them had was 5, and that was Reggie Johnson, a two-time titlist. Of Dariusz victims, the largest number of losses was 7, and that was Nestor Giovanni, who briefly held the WBO title, and I'm sure most of us had never heard of him before this post.

I think that without a doubt, the toughest guy Michalszewski ever beat was Virgil Hill. Jones' toughest opponent at light heavy could have been...well, it could have been three-time titlist Mike McCallum, or maybe two-time titlist and DM victim Virgil Hill, or maybe two-time titlist Reggie Johnson, or perhaps eventual conqueror Antonio Tarver. I'd probably go with Tarver, because that was at the very least the toughest win of Jones' career. I do understand that Tarver fought Jones after a RJ-DM matchup was an impossibility.

Jones' weakest opponent was certainly Richard Frazier. No one's going to try to justify that except by saying that if you want to keep your belts, you have to fight mandatories. Dariusz' weakest opponent was definitely Everardo Armenta, whose biggest win came against 25-10 Jaime Montano. Armenta was 20-5 at the time. Frazier's toughest opponent was 25-5-1 Anthony Hembrick, or maybe a rookie MO Harris. I dunno who would argue that Armenta tougher than Frazier.

Jones knocked Julio Gonzalez down three times, lost one round against him, and for whatever reason, decided not to stop him. We've all heard the Gerald Mclellan theory, so I won't repeat it. Michalszewski, as I'm sure you know, lost to Julio Gonzalez.

Anyway, all of this goes to say that Jones may have posted worse numbers, but there was no twenty-point disparity. Also, Jones fought at a much higher level of competition, and even the weakest of the weak fighters on his record is better than some of those Michalszewski beat. Furthermore, judging by performances against common opponents, Roy is a more effective puncher. Of course, I only cited their performances against Gonzalez, but if I went down the list of common opponents, Jones would have knocked more of them out more conclusively.

Where are you getting these numbers from? DM had a KO % of 79% and RJJ had a KO % of 60%. Who are these title holders? The only people worth mentioning that RJJ beat that DM didn't was his gift decision against Tarver and his TKO over an injured Harding. If my memory is serving me correctly, McCallum was nearly 40 years old at the time he fought RJJ. That should hardly be counted as a great win. DM lost to Gonzalez who beat Johnson who humiliated Jones. So what's your point? Besides for Hill and only counting first tries DM finished off all of their similar opponents sooner than RJJ did.

I would still be a Vitali fan. At least, if the circumstances were the same as they were in Jones case. He vacated a title that he had won, and then was awarded it back, albeit unfairly. If he had lost to Rochigianni, thought about moving to heavy and then was given the title back without ever having to fight Graciano, your argument would hold water, but he didn't and it doesn't.

Look, the WBC treated Rochigianni unfairly. I totally agree. But Jones had already held the WBC title before he was considering moving up to heavyweight. And as for people who argue that DM won the linear championship when he "unified" the titles against Rochigianni, they are full of ****, because Rochigianni was never the linear champ. He never beat Jones, and by the time DM fought Rochigianni, he had already been stripped of his other two belts. He unified the WBO with nothing else. There was no linear champion during the nineties. The guy who had the best claim to the linear championship was Jones, because he absolutely cleaned the division out. And actually did unify the titles.

Oh, and I don't really feel like mentioning this, but Rochigianni has basically been retired for two years when he fought Michszewski, and would have had to give the belt up anyway. Don't forget, the titles had been fractured since Spinks left the division. They were never unified at one time until Jones did it. I will repeat, there was NO linear champion, and Jones was the only one who really had a right to say that he was the best fighter in the division.

No DM became the linear champ by beating Hill.

I am still no 1 fan of RJJ

Dude, the title Hill won was vacant. He was not the linear champion.

How can you say that Harding was Jones' toughest opponent? Harding did nothing except give Jones a little more of a challenge than most people. First off, Tarver wasn't robbed, you're just too biased to see it. Secondly, I said that McCallum was old in my post. He was still good enough to win the title like a year before Jones beat him. Thirdly, are you honestly saying that Hill, Johnson, and Delvalle, all titlists, are worse than Harding? That's absurd man.

And I found what the numbers problem was. I had accidentally included a cruiserweight fight in Michalszewski's ratio. It was just an oversight, but you are correct, his ratio was 79%.Still, Jones had a 67% kayo ratio. He knocked out 12 of 18 opponents before moving to heavyweight and coming back down. And like I said, it is obvious that Jones fought better competition when they were fresher.

And as for Michalszewski knocking them out earlier, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll concede that Roy only knocked out Hill because of the wear and tear from the DM fight, if you concede that DM was only able to knock any of them out because Jones had beaten them up so badly in the first place. Sound fair?

DM was the linear champ. There was no WBC champ at the time. Hill beat Maske for the IBF belt and he beat Tate for the vacant WBA belt. Find someplace that says that he wasn't the linear champ.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/lheavy.htm

Hill wasn't included because I said of the opponents RJJ beat that DM didn't beat. DeValle, Johnson, and Harding are all pretty equal but I would say that Harding is a tad bit better. You mean McCallum was bad enough to lose the title to Tiozzo a year before he fought RJJ. Where are you getting 12 of 18 at LHW? Its actually not 9 of 15 either, its 10 of 16 = 63%. As for DM beating RJJ leftovers, I'll agree to that except for Hall and Harmon because that was shot and fading DM who finished them off before RJJ could.

This should make it easier for you to find.

I think he's 1 off the best of all time. He's the last man that beat b-hop. It's been a long time since I've seen this kind of power,speed, all blended in one fighter and also his fighting style can only be compared to the greatest: leonard, ali it's amazin' what he has achieved Too bad he continued to fight when he has got his best time. I still hope for a comeback i think he can do it. I still hope for hopkins-jones rematch. Jones is the best fighter in the last 20 years. peace

Give RRJ his props, but don't include his brief foray at Heavy as some sort of accomplishment, other than on paper (much like Ruiz's "champion" status). Those discussions are an insult to Mike Spinks, who actual stepped up and beat the reigning Linear Champ, with about the same weight differential. Spinks at Heavy vs. RJ? You see it.

RRJ probably has never really had a good chin, but we'll never know 'cause the Gods gave him those monster reflexes and his chin was elusive. The slower and aged RJ was hittable, and a couple guys with some hand speed hit him good, there's no shame except in not knowing when to quit.

His "legacy" will be the ring record and titles. Those things don't go away, but neither will this debate. He'll be universally recognized for his reflexes (not his power) but will not be as broadly regarded as maybe he should be, mostly because his one chance at cementing his Legacy was in Tarver, and it didn't happen (twice).

Roy was the greatest of an era, I agree.

Simply put, very true.

He beat several future hall of famers, Pazienza, Toney, Hopkins, McCallum.

He beat something like 16 past, present or future champions.

Held titles from middleweight to heavyweight, was the first person in 106 years to make that jump.

Realistically won his first 50 career pro bouts.

The "ducked everyone" argument is stupid... he beat Hopkins & Toney when no one else could. If you wanna say he ducked Nunn then you would be assuming Nunn could beat Hopkins & Toney... get real. He has no reason to duck someone who is worse than someone he already beat.

His lack of heart coupled with age and ****iness finally caught up with him to taint his image forever... but in his prime he was untouchable, possibly the fastest P4P fighter of all-time not to mention possibly the most evasive as well... all coupled with that fabled "killer instinct" that so few possess in history. When these 3 attributes were at their peak, heart and chin were not a factor, no one was in a position good enough to test either of his weaknesses.

It's sad people will forever judge Jones for Tarver and Johnson yet other greats are forgiven for staying too long... like Ali vs Holmes.

Fact remains, from 1993 to 2003 he was the best in the sport. That's a long reign as king.

Simply put, very true.

He beat several future hall of famers, Pazienza, Toney, Hopkins, McCallum.

He beat something like 16 past, present or future champions.

Held titles from middleweight to heavyweight, was the first person in 106 years to make that jump.

Realistically won his first 50 career pro bouts.

The "ducked everyone" argument is stupid... he beat Hopkins & Toney when no one else could. If you wanna say he ducked Nunn then you would be assuming Nunn could beat Hopkins & Toney... get real. He has no reason to duck someone who is worse than someone he already beat.

His lack of heart coupled with age and ****iness finally caught up with him to taint his image forever... but in his prime he was untouchable, possibly the fastest P4P fighter of all-time not to mention possibly the most evasive as well... all coupled with that fabled "killer instinct" that so few possess in history. When these 3 attributes were at their peak, heart and chin were not a factor, no one was in a position good enough to test either of his weaknesses.

It's sad people will forever judge Jones for Tarver and Johnson yet other greats are forgiven for staying too long... like Ali vs Holmes.

Fact remains, from 1993 to 2003 he was the best in the sport. That's a long reign as king.


I agree completely

Simply put, very true.

He beat several future hall of famers, Pazienza, Toney, Hopkins, McCallum.

He beat something like 16 past, present or future champions.

Held titles from middleweight to heavyweight, was the first person in 106 years to make that jump.

Realistically won his first 50 career pro bouts.

The "ducked everyone" argument is stupid... he beat Hopkins & Toney when no one else could. If you wanna say he ducked Nunn then you would be assuming Nunn could beat Hopkins & Toney... get real. He has no reason to duck someone who is worse than someone he already beat.

His lack of heart coupled with age and ****iness finally caught up with him to taint his image forever... but in his prime he was untouchable, possibly the fastest P4P fighter of all-time not to mention possibly the most evasive as well... all coupled with that fabled "killer instinct" that so few possess in history. When these 3 attributes were at their peak, heart and chin were not a factor, no one was in a position good enough to test either of his weaknesses.

It's sad people will forever judge Jones for Tarver and Johnson yet other greats are forgiven for staying too long... like Ali vs Holmes.

Fact remains, from 1993 to 2003 he was the best in the sport. That's a long reign as king.

You can't use the he ducked no one arguement and then mention two great wins which weren't at LHW. No one is saying he ducked anyone at middle weight and super middle weight.

No, i actually like Roy Jones, i was sad to see him knocked out by Johnson

I agree, that was scary.

RJJ was a great fighter, but the losses seem to have taken away from him when he was at his peak and it shouldnt. It didnt take away from SRL and Duran so why pick and choose/

At one point people thought it would be interesting what would happen between him and lennox lewis. Everyone thought RJJ would lose, but that didnt stop people from speculating what would happen. This is of course when he beat Ruiz. But still, you have to give respect to RJJ.

Better than Floyd thats for sure.