Those of us who live in 1st world class countries enjoy a large degree of freedom, we live in capitalist societies, we have freedom to work, to not work, to engage in activities we enjoy, we are free to engage in business of choice, we can fraternize with who we want, we can love who we want...to a certain extent.

There are laws prohibit acts which are deemed harmful to society, laws that prohibit sexual relations in certain categories, laws telling us what to do - so we also live in a partially government controlled society.

Then there are the moralists, who seek to control people's morals, those of religion, those against euthenasia, etc etc, who seek to control our moral judgement.

There is the media, most, if not all of us plugged into tv, the Internet, newpapers, billboards, fliers etc, the companies which own or distribute these forms of communication headed by individuals with their own personal agendas, in many instances allied with political figures or political agendas.

We have the freedom to choose what we like, but is it really freedom when the choices we can make are ultimately controlled by someone else? Those with the power to change legislation, the power to influence, those that profit from our choices? Just how free are we?

Perhaps our bindings are are not as obvious as dictators imposing their will on the public via a militarilistic fashion, perhaps they aren't as vicious or as forthright or as exact as putting a bullett in the head of an opposition, but are they any less effective?

Just how free are we?

I like living in the capitalist dictatorship mopre than being dead.

In all honesty, we are bound by law and convention more than at any other time in history.

Their are few free people in the world, only small pockets of people still living tribally, and they aren't completely free as their nomadic tendencies are being hampered by the 'progress' machine that is humanity today.

Is Australia a first world country?

We have a much lower poverty and homeless percentage than the US, so I guess we are

...of course we are.

HUh, sorry, but here in teh states, or at least where i am from, they kind of portray us as one fo the only first world nations. I just thought australia was liek all desert

You have to be kidding me right? The US is one of the few first world countries? You guys really need to educate.

Japan, Singapore, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, United States, Hong Kong, Belgium, France, the UK, Scotland, Ireland, Netherlands, Sweden...etc etc are ALL first world countries, and thats just from the top of my head.

- m

we are as free as we allow our selves to be

Complete Freedom is blissful chaos. The stability of civilization would be unbalanced if everyone was truly equal and possessive of complete freedom. As for technology/machines...well, we've built a relationship with it to the point we now depend of machines to purify our waters, generate our electricity and provide us communication vehicles such as telephones and computers. As the prophecy tells it...mankind shall create a demon so powerful(AI,machines) that it will began to control our lives and govern us. Only time shall tell.....LONG LIVE THE CAGE.

Originally posted by Kamino
Complete Freedom is blissful chaos. The stability of civilization would be unbalanced if everyone was truly equal and possessive of complete freedom.

we have a winner.

a Democracy is only possible in theory. A system that would work like a clock if the persons in power could see themselves on the same level as the common man. In an election where the vote system is seperated by the popular vote and the electoral one and the minimum amount of money to run for office is 8 million insures that any person born without wealth has a far chance of making things happen for people like themselves.

essentially voting is like a slave picking thier masters. The US as an example is more toward a republic in the sense of old Rome where the majority no longer care as long as they have bread and circus (Beer or TV anyone?) and the cost of living keeps the free thinkers busy 8-10 hours a day. The first world has just elevated to a higher scale of cast system where the peasants have toys and credit cards.

I say no, its the same as it ever was. The rules are the same just a differant setting.

good post Kamino, I too see a possible Butlerian Jyhad (science fiction's war of the machines)

Originally posted by Aaron Misery
essentially voting is like a slave picking thier masters. The US as an example is more toward a republic in the sense of old Rome where the majority no longer care as long as they have bread and circus (Beer or TV anyone?) and the cost of living keeps the free thinkers busy 8-10 hours a day. The first world has just elevated to a higher scale of cast system where the peasants have toys and credit cards.

well **** me...another winner.

Originally posted by seldomTap
We have a much lower poverty and homeless percentage than the US, so I guess we are

Australia also doesn't have 280,562,489 people.

I think to much freedom is bad for people. Human beings need rules to live by. I can't speak for the Austalians, Canadians, etc. here but here in America I think there is to much freedom.

We are prisoners to our circumstances and enviornments

Originally posted by Christopher Chaos
We are prisoners to our circumstances and enviornments

Chaos is right. Refer to Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

Originally posted by seldomTap
In all honesty, we are bound by law and convention more than at any other time in history.

Their are few free people in the world, only small pockets of people still living tribally, and they aren't completely free as their nomadic tendencies are being hampered by the 'progress' machine that is humanity today.

Depends on your definition of freedom Seldom. In many non western/pre-industirial societies there are constraints placed on individual's freedom that would be intolerable to us and that we take for granted.

Without going into detail here are two examples;

-many of those "tribal" cultures have prescribed marriage systems. You don't marry whoever you want. The marriage is arranged to further the ends of your clan and lignage with little or no concern to your own individual feelings.

-kinship ties are usually a lot stronger out of necessity. Now that may seem nice at first but you have to take into account that with this comes increased responsibility for the actions of your kin. The institution of vendetta, "bloodfeud", is an example of this. Often individuals get caught up in cycle-klllings in which they have had no direct part in the setting off of. However they have no choice to bear the consequences of other kin's actions. It is a kill and be killed debt passed from generation to generation with no possibility for a given individual to opt to remove himself from the cycle.

Basically what I'm saying is that non-western/low technology cultures are not by definition freer or "purer". You gotta be careful to no thave a too "romantic" view about how these people live. Some aspects of those societies are quite attractive to outsiders but you have to look at all the facets of how these people live before judging. Again it all boils down to what I or you consider "being free".

Or so I say.

Basically what I'm saying is that non-western/low technology cultures are not by definition freer or "purer". You gotta be careful to no thave a too "romantic" view about how these people live. Some aspects of those societies are quite attractive to outsiders but you have to look at all the facets of how these people live before judging. Again it all boils down to what I or you consider "being free".

Good point. Ill think about this.