undefinedundefinedundefinedThe title says it all, if there could be a fight of both fighters in there prime, the showdown of the century,the greatest of two times. Who would kick who's ass? first off you would have to decide what the rules are, is rope a dope an option? or would ali get disqualified? would tysons strenght be to mighty for ali? I think not, ali faught some hard punchers in his lifetime ex.foreman he seemed to use technique quit well against any of his opponents. He realized what his contendor would do and retaliate against it. Maybe im wrong, maybe tyson's aggression would creame ali, its true ali couldn't take that much of a punch, he just rarely got hit with a nice shot is all. He was so eager to dance around in circles. I believe if tyson did not remove ali's head from his body within the first four rounds (which is usually tyson's strategy) then the match would go to ali and vise versa. however this is just my theory? anyone is able to put up your views, like for instance i believe ali was the greatest there ever was. he used a cool head and had the art of movement, he wasnt just a crazy ass tank who tried to fuck people up. he won by technique. Anyone who thinks differently go ahead and tell me why im wrong.

This would be no match Ali easily. Ali would throw down quick combinations and be out of there before Tyson could get set to throw. He would disrupt Tyson's rythym throughout the fight while talking shit to him. Ali dances and pounds Tyson for an easy decision or late stoppage.

realistically i would think that tyson couldnt give ali much that the boxers of ali's era tested him with. for example, tysons main stratergy was to go into a fight and destroy his opponents, i dont think that this would trouble ali to much.

if tyson could get a clean hit on ali then obviously there would be problems but i dont see tyson getting that clean hit


a better match up in my opinion......... prime frazier vs prime tyson

Ali would be 2 quick for Tyson and would frustrate him and wear him out. KO in the later rounds.

Ali would make Mike look so bad that he would freak out and pull some crazy shit and get Disqualified.

Ali would have messed up Tyson's head before they even got into the ring.

holmes the most underrated figther ever was better then ali...his jab faster and stronger held the title for 8 years with out loosing ...tyson said if he would of fought holmes in the early 80s he would of killed tyson

its true ali couldn't take that much of a punch

what are you talking about? I hope I am misreading something here, and in this case apologize

Ali got caught in the 70s by a shitload of punches on the body, on the head and even on his chin

in the 70s he wasn't dancing anymore, cos he couldn't keep it up for 15 rounds like he did earlier on.

still he fought the hardest punchers of his era frazier (3 times), foreman, lyle, shavers and was knocked down 2 times in 10 years (frazier and wepner).

by the way no one thought he wuld get up so fast after the frazier knock down: still, he was up pretty fast

he also fought liston in the 60s. Even if he could dance by the time, if you look at the first fight he does get hit sometimes in round 4 and 5, and doeesn't show any sign of dizzyness.

he had his jaw broken by ken norton, and made it to the end of the fight

the only time he got stopped was when 38, and already showing signs of parkinson's and it was his corner who had to throw the towel, cos he was still standing.

if this is not being able to "take that much of a punch", who has a chin?

anyway I take ali by late stoppage after embarassing tyson all through the fight.
or he might get it by DQ, frustration is a very good point,sonny

It’s hands down Ali. Ali is a concrete definition of boxing as a sweet science. And until now I haven’t seen anybody in the division who has the skills that can be considered at least at par with him.

Tyson in his prime is leaning more on his psychological game plan to defeat his opponents and he backs it up with his power and his determination inside the ring. His opponents are all so intimidated that they climb the ring thinking merely of how to survive his onslaught and not to defeat the guy. All his opponents go in there backing up and covering instead of punching. Buster Douglas’ victory in ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:country-region w:st=<ST1:place w:st="on">Japan</ST1:place></st1:country-region> was clearly an eye opener for the rest of the heavy weights for it gave away the strategy of how to deal with the guy. And it’s not so hard for Holyfield’s team to decipher that thus Holyfield defeated him.

As for Ali, Tyson’s INTIMIDATION PLOY won’t ever work against him because Ali will never be intimidated by anybody. Tyson will be systematically be broken down. He has brain and the skills to back it up. He has the foot speed, hands speed and an arsenal of different punches to do what ever he wants inside that ring.

A prime Ali against a prime Tyson ? Ali will make a mess out of Tyson’s face while the latter is chasing Ali around the four corners of that ring. Tyson’s fighting skills is simply not enough for him to outwit the Greatest Boxer of all time, at least until the present. :cool:

what are you talking about? I hope I am misreading something here, and in this case apologize

Ali got caught in the 70s by a shitload of punches on the body, on the head and even on his chin

in the 70s he wasn't dancing anymore, cos he couldn't keep it up for 15 rounds like he did earlier on.

still he fought the hardest punchers of his era frazier (3 times), foreman, lyle, shavers and was knocked down 2 times in 10 years (frazier and wepner).

by the way no one thought he wuld get up so fast after the frazier knock down: still, he was up pretty fast

he also fought liston in the 60s. Even if he could dance by the time, if you look at the first fight he does get hit sometimes in round 4 and 5, and doeesn't show any sign of dizzyness.

he had his jaw broken by ken norton, and made it to the end of the fight

the only time he got stopped was when 38, and already showing signs of parkinson's and it was his corner who had to throw the towel, cos he was still standing.

if this is not being able to "take that much of a punch", who has a chin?

anyway I take ali by late stoppage after embarassing tyson all through the fight.
or he might get it by DQ, frustration is a very good point,sonny

You took the words out of my mouth pal. Ali definitely can take a punch (see my sig;))...he was KD'd by real heavy hitters like Joe Frazier and Ken Norton alright but that's beside the point, anyone gets hit with a heavyweight punch flush on the chin will go down. Big George and Ernie Shavers were certified knockout artists as well, but he withstood all of their heavy broadsides. Ali I reckon would take advantage of his height and reach advantage to the hilt and dance around Mike Tyson, boxing him silly all night...and if he could catch Tyson with his "shoe shining" combinations or with his counters even while backing up - good night MT.

BTW, I don't think Mike Tyson punches a lot harder than Big George, Smokin' Joe or Ernie Shavers.

Ali by late rounds TKO.

a prime Tyson (80's) vs. a prime Ali ( 60's), no question it's Ali, Tyson wouldn't be able to hit him. Tyson is most effective if you stand in front of him and take it, and be afraid of him. A prime Ali
would do neither, he'd dance and pop Tyson in the face with his jab until iron mike got discouraged, which wouldn't take long because Tyson has no heart

I honestly believe that Tyson would beat Ali, I think Tyson's superb head movement would keep him out the way of Ali's Jab.

Tyson - KO 5th

He just sat there like a sack of sand.

you guys need to break out some film of tyson in his prime, quick feet lightning fast hands and lots of head movement,tyson by tko in 10, the ref would have to stop it cause ali wouldnt quit. remember young tyson could go the distance if he had to, im talking 1986-1990

a prime Tyson (80's) vs. a prime Ali ( 60's), no question it's Ali, Tyson wouldn't be able to hit him. Tyson is most effective if you stand in front of him and take it, and be afraid of him. A prime Ali
would do neither, he'd dance and pop Tyson in the face with his jab until iron mike got discouraged, which wouldn't take long because Tyson has no heart

I'd pick Tyson by KO, A prime Tyson was feared for a very good reason.

Jack Dempsey would be Tyson's hardest fight, i think Tyson would fear his idol.

holmes the most underrated figther ever was better then ali...his jab faster and stronger held the title for 8 years with out loosing ...tyson said if he would of fought holmes in the early 80s he would of killed tyson

You'r entitled to you opinion, but you're wrong.

unfortunatly for us all, we will never really know

Whoever said that tyson in his prime would beat ali (in his prime as well) is joking! Oh wait, are we talking about both fighters in their prime? If we are then i will continue by saying that whoever thought that tyson could beat ali is kidding and i am suggesting they should watch old tapes of ali during his prime!

Ali in his younger years as a boxer is very quick and very strong in his punches and plus he's so quick with his feet, too! How can Tyson ever beat that? Are you saying that Tyson is a lot better and a lot stronger than Frazier, Norton, or Foreman?

Does anyone remember that Ali in his prime did fight someone exactly
like Mike Tyson, and beat him. Liston was a big puncher, a feared fighter ( for good reason, i saw what he did to Eddie Machen and Floyd Patterson ). A prime Ali against a prime Tyson would likely be very similar, as Tyson had the same strengths and weaknesses as Sonny Liston

Are you saying that Tyson is a lot better and a lot stronger than Frazier, Norton, or Foreman?

I'd put money on Tyson to kick all their asses

I have not enough doubts in victory Ali. He of 100 % the best heavyweight in a history.

I'd put money on Tyson to kick all their asses


Then that's a lost investment :D

I would put money on a prime Tyson beating Frazier, and definately Norton.

Ali has defeated great punchers of his era....I don't think Tyson would be any different.

As I have posted earlier Ali is a concrete example of boxing being a sweet science not merely of brute force. He can be a boxer, a counter puncher, a slugger, a brawler . . . a complete fighter that haven't been imitated or coppied by anybody up to this modern time. Ali is always a different fighter inside the ring defending on who the opponent and what ever the opponents have to bring inside the ring.

Tyson? Only one fighting style . . . attack! . . . attack! . . . attack! :D . . . and it won't be that hard for Ali to tire him out while compilling points until the 8th to 10th round before giving him the finishing touches. If a Holyfield was able to figure out Tyson how much more with Ali? can you compare Holyfields capabilities and skills to ALI? ;)

No its about styles with ALi and Tyson.Just liked Joe knocked Alie out in their first fight.Tyson would do the same ,only a lot quicker,because of the footwork,and speed.

No its about styles with ALi and Tyson.Just liked Joe knocked Alie out in their first fight.Tyson would do the same ,only a lot quicker,because of the footwork,and speed.


Bro don't get lost we are talking of a prime Ali . . . Ali was in his worst shape when Frazier K.O.ed him on their first fight. Did you see what happened to Frazier in their rematch? :D

I would put money on a prime Tyson beating Frazier, and definately Norton.


I'm with you on prime Tyson beating prime Norton but against Frazier I still see that as a 50/50 fight . . . remember that Tyson is having problem with opponents who doesn't back up :D . . . . now when did you see FRAZIER back up. That fight will end up either as a total brawl or a damn fluke holding and pushing match.

I posted this in the other forum, but realized it should porbably go here...

I used to think this was a slam dunk (i.e. for Ali over Tyson) but now I'm not so sure. After re-watching Tyson bitch slap and literally torture Terrell Biggs to tears, it made me wonder. For those of you who don't remember, Biggs was about as close to Ali in terms of style and skills as anyone ever was...

This fight would be a great matchup of styles like Joe Frasier

and Ali. The fight would go like this: Tyson would start fast and

stun Ali in the early rounds. After weathering Tyson's early

assault Ali would adabt and either start dancing around the ring

peppering tyson with his strong jab and precise combinations or

Ali would rope a dope and hold tyson tiring him out. In any case

tyson's face would be swolen up in the later rounds and would

succomb to a late round knockout.( round 12 or 13)What would be

interesting about this fight is how Ali withstands Tyson's

explosive punching power. I have Ali knocking tyson out in round

thirteen in a flurry of sharp punches.

i dont see this fight going past the 3rd round, everybody keeps talking about what ali did to george foremen, dont forget a prime tyson could go 12 rounds throwing power punches.

Tyson by tko 1.

ali would make tyson look like a clown with his footwork and dazzling punches

frazier is a smaller and less te*****aly sound tyson.

frazier beat ali , tyson has the same style but he does everything better.

tyson wins by KO mid rounds.

Ali was a master of messing with his opponents minds before the fight day-Tyson would be messed up more than he already is if Ali fought him.-Ali by mid round KO.

ali would make tyson look like a clown with his footwork and dazzling punches


Absolutely :D . . . . Tyson will be frustrated being hit by Ali's jarring jabs while chasing him around the ring and once he gets close enough his hands are going to be tied up . . . Ali is not only Skill . . . he's got brain . . . a master tactician :cool:

i hate to break it too you tyson fans but tyson would get slaughtered, not only slaughtered, hed look like a fool. he's big and strong but too stupid to use tatics and thats what would win this fight, tysons all about power punches, whcih we know are slower than jabs and ali would see it a mile away. ali's too skilled for tyson

Ali would mess Tyson up in his mind and take a UD.

No, he wouldn't.

ali would beat him if he got in to his head

To be honest I am actually shocked that this topic has this many people on different sides. And the things I have read have been fabulous. Terrell Biggs compared to Ali? Kinda like comparing an eagle to a pigeon cause they both have wings. Ali would beat Tyson in the ring, out of the ring, on tv, on the radio, and anywhere else you want to compare them. Tyson has never been real stable mentally and emotionally to begin with. And he always beats the people he can pusharound and intimidate. Well this is Ali. And Ali did not get intimidated by anyone. Tyson attacks. Ali steps aside and jabs. Wash, rinse, and repeat. Would get ugly actually.

Tyson is no different than sonny liston and young george foreman...Ali would had boxed circles around tyson and then knocked him out in theb later rounds...

Tyson is no different than sonny liston and young george foreman...Ali would had boxed circles around tyson and then knocked him out in theb later rounds...

Actually, Tyson IS different from both Liston and Foreman, in that he is not on their level in my opinion. Ali would school Tyson, tear him up, break him down and knock him out. Tyson would have no chance in hell.

A LOT of people like to say that Ali would beat Tyson with absolutely no problem. Saying that the legends of the past might lose to the boxers today is almost blasphemy. Personally, I can't pick a clear-cut winner. Ali floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee. But Ali was stung in his career too. Heck, Norton broke his jaw. You also have to remember that Tyson, in his prime (before '91), was a MUCH better boxer than he is now. He moved side to side, jumped in and out, had good head movement, and was pretty fast, himself. Now... his boxing skills aren't even worth mentioning! There was a time when I would've NEVER betted that Tyson would lose. Now the opposite is true. A Tyson/Ali fight (with both guys in their prime), would've been awesome. And probably not as easy to call as some say.

A side note;

The same thing was said about a Tyson/Holyfield fight back in the late 80's and early 90's. How Holyfield was going to outbox Tyson, and all that stuff. Please! Had Tyson and Holyfield fought BACK THEN, Holyfield would've been slaughtered.

I know, I know. Holyfield isn't Ali.

What makes you so sure Tyson would have beaten Holyfield? He got his ass kicked by an older, slower version so how would he hope to dominate a prime Holyfield?

Welcome to the forum by the way.

I think Tyson in 1988 or 1989 has a good chance against Ali. Tyson is not really that similar at to the other big punchers Ali faced like Lyle,Shavers,Frazier,Foreman, Tyson is way faster than any of them. pound for pound Tyson probably has just as fast of hands as ali does and his defence his good, he bobs and weaves, so that would make it hard for Ali to keep him off with the jab. Ali would have to be extremely cautious against Tyson and dance around on the perimter and try to land jabs for 15 rounds. I think more likely Tyson would be able to land his power and combos because of his vicious speed and stop ali maybe even in the early rounds. Ali is fast, Tyson might even be faster, and he hits alot harder. Tyson KO 7

Ali would tear Tyson's eyes out and skull fuk him!!!

Ali would tear Tyson's eyes out and skull fuk him!!!



You are talking prime Ali from the 60's, prime Ali's gaunt physiche would crumble beneath Mike Tyson's accurate devestating power punches to the body which I guarateen he would land no matter how much ali danced Mike would work his way inside with excellent head and foot movement tea off on that gaunt body and start with the upercut. Ali's punches when he was skinny in the 60's would not be enough to keep tyson from planting his feet and unleashing the devaestating power and combo's. Ali hit too soft and was to much of a defensive fighter to battle Tyson from 1988 1989.

Ali had a rock hard body and was rarely hurt by bodyshots. I remember in the first Chuvalo fight where Ali had his hands up and just let George smash him in the stomach over and over. I think he hit Ali in the midsection with ten or more repeated shots and Ali just shook his head and egged him on. Ali was very, very strong and built like a 6'3" wide shouldered Bruce Lee. He would take Tyson's punches fine.

http://www.10ktruth.com/images/ali0001.jpg

Thats true, Foreman did hit just as hard as Tyson and Ali just smiled at him. Would Tyson have the speed to sneak a hook to Ali's head early? Thats the question here

Probably, but Ali's chin was insanely powerful, it may phase Ali eventually, but the first round the pace would be set immediately for Ali

Ali would annihilate Tyson, Foreman hit HARDER than Tyson, not by alot, but still hit harder...

You are talking prime Ali from the 60's, prime Ali's gaunt physiche would crumble beneath Mike Tyson's accurate devestating power punches to the body which I guarateen he would land no matter how much ali danced Mike would work his way inside with excellent head and foot movement tea off on that gaunt body and start with the upercut. Ali's punches when he was skinny in the 60's would not be enough to keep tyson from planting his feet and unleashing the devaestating power and combo's. Ali hit too soft and was to much of a defensive fighter to battle Tyson from 1988 1989.


1) ali body did not crumble from liston punches... in 1964

2) foreman - ali ali weighs in at 216
frazier-ali I weighs in at 212
ali-frazier II weighs in at 215

last 3 fights before the forced reitrement:

211+
212+
212+

wow those 2-4 pounds musta been iron...

no punching power? look at his record from 64 to 67! (the punch that takes you out is the one you don't see...)

ANYWAY,

this is ridiculous tyson is a coulda been great that crumbled every time he fought great opposition, whose prime lasted like 2hours, ali beat great opposition while PAST his prime.

Ali had the perfect tools to beat tyson: a superb jab and a great right (straight punches), an all time great chin, and the strength to move him around the ring and tie him.

throw in the mix the mind games ali would play with tyson fragile psyche, and i don't see how ppl can think tyson would knock him out

1) ali body did not crumble from liston punches... in 1964

2) foreman - ali ali weighs in at 216
frazier-ali I weighs in at 212
ali-frazier II weighs in at 215

last 3 fights before the forced reitrement:

211+
212+
212+

wow those 2-4 pounds musta been iron...

no punching power? look at his record from 64 to 67! (the punch that takes you out is the one you don't see...)

ANYWAY,

this is ridiculous tyson is a coulda been great that crumbled every time he fought great opposition, whose prime lasted like 2hours, ali beat great opposition while PAST his prime.

Ali had the perfect tools to beat tyson: a superb jab and a great right (straight punches), an all time great chin, and the strength to move him around the ring and tie him.

throw in the mix the mind games ali would play with tyson fragile psyche, and i don't see how ppl can think tyson would knock him out

When was Ali's prime? no doubt the fight that made his career was the win over foreman that was in 1974, so you should say 1974 was his prime. His win over Liston is overrated because Liston was all f***ed up when they fought and took a dive in one of the fights. . If Muhammad Ali never beat Foreman he would be regarded so much lower. He lost to Leon Spinks in Spinks's 8th professional fight 5 months after Ali won a UD over Shavers. He lost to Ken Norton in 1971, got his jaw broken in that fight. And Ken Norton was a nobody before he fought Ali, the guy he fought before fighting ALi was 22-8 and so were all the opponents Norton had fought up to that point. His only notable win besides beating ALi was stopping Jerry Quarrey.

Beating Foreman is what made ALI be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the right game plan and style to beat Foreman.

Foreman made Norton and Frazier and Lyle look like nothing while 2 of those guys beat Ali in his prime. Foreman knocked Norton out in 2. Knocked Frazier down 5 times etc....
Ali basically got lucky against Foreman, if they ever rematched Foreman would have beaten his ass. Ali's mind games got to him and fighting in Africa was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Georges psyche up.

Foreman KO'd Ron Lyle in 5 while Ali was loosing his fight against Lyle until Ali got a gift premature stoppage, the ref stopped the fight just because Ali flurried basically it was one of the worst stoppages I have ever seen, if the ref was honest Lyle would have went on to beat Ali. The win over Lyle is one Ali's biggest wins, and he did not deserve to win that fight. And of course look how much Ali struggled with Frazier but Foreman obliterated him.


George Foreman is better than Ali, George Foreman made Ali, George Foreman is the real greatest of the 70's. George Foreman is the man who made the man who you proclaim falsely as being the man in boxing.

http://biografieonline.it/img/bio/g/George_Foreman.jpg

http://www.forbesbookclub.com/bookimages/ingram/074/320/0743200934.gif

McKay,

ok, first I find it interesting that you have to change the subject from tyson to foreman, which makes me think you have no relevant answers to my objections

anyway...

-Ali's prime is around 74

NO

ali's prime was 64-67

this is a FACT:
he was faster and with better stamina than in the 70s and bigger than when he was 18-22

the fact that he won snd defended the title afterwards just does not change this, it just shows how great he was, even past his physical prime

sonny liston was all "f***ed up" and big george freaked out cos the fight was held in africa... So everytime ali beats someone it's because the someone is in deep psychological trouble...
either you just ali for some reason I don't know
or if you really think it's the case..
well I got news for you, brains matter in boxing, and note that I don't like leonard playing the bitch with hagler or jones circling around opponents and pot shotting them (but this is a way to win, too), but ali never bitched out of a fight at the negotiation table or fought like a bitch in the ring.

after the 3rd frazier fight he was done
he lost to spinks when he was 36.
and still managed to win back his title

-foreman is greater than ali... and ali just got lucky...

NO

even foreman rates ali above himself among all time HW greats and so do every boxing historian and most fans, except ppl like you who think tyson would ko ali.

all your comparing opposition arguments don't do much: ever heard of the saying "styles make fights", well maybe you did not know that frazier and even moreso norton were built up by futch to beat ali, and on the other hand of the spectrum cus d'amato used to show frazier-foreman to tyson, to show him the wrongest possible style to attack someone like foreman.

you also bring up the Lyle fights, I am not sure it's a grat idea:
foreman was knocked down twice and made the same mistake he made with ali: he punched too much, too soon. Only he was fighting a dumb slugger like him, who did not have ali's chin and witsand KOed him.
so what is that make you so sure that this was not to happen again in a rematch with ali?

as far as ali-lyle goes, (bs stoppage or not, haven't seen the fight in 3 years but it did not seem a bs stoppage at the time, but I will concede that my memory may fail) ali usually won most of the championship rounds ("ali's alley", not for nothing)


-foreman made ali what he is...

NO

he started calling himself the greatest after he beat sonny liston but who cares about what he called himself:
he was always the draw (and a legend because since the liston fights, winning against foreman gave him his second wave of glory), the marciano-ali computerized fights, all the who's better louis or ali barroom chat was older crap than the foreman fight, which just goes to show

This is like the NBA in 1950, those guys sucked. World records get broken every day, thats not luck kids, thats just better training.

With this futuristic dieting and training even i could have a good fist at ali. Steven Boomayay

This is like the NBA in 1950, those guys sucked. World records get broken every day, thats not luck kids, thats just better training.

With this futuristic dieting and training even i could have a good fist at ali. Steven Boomayay


Yes......high-tech training is all the rage in boxing, isn't it ? Yeah, right.

Look at Hopkins.....is he doing anything high-tech ? Not at all.

You don't know what you're talking about.

He lost to Ken Norton in 1971, got his jaw broken in that fight. And Ken Norton was a nobody before he fought Ali, the guy he fought before fighting ALi was 22-8 and so were all the opponents Norton had fought up to that point. His only notable win besides beating ALi was stopping Jerry Quarrey.

Foreman lost to Jimmy Young in 1977 and was KD during this fiht. And Jimmy Young was a nobody before and after he fought Foreman, the guy he fought before fighting Foreman was 13-7 (except Ali - lost by UD, and Lyle) and so were all the opponents Young had fought up to that point. His only notable win before and after beating Foreman was win over Ron Lyle.

Ali basically got lucky against Foreman, if they ever rematched Foreman would have beaten his ass. Ali's mind games got to him and fighting in Africa was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Georges psyche up.

Foreman basically got lucky against Lyle, if they ever rematched Ron would have beaten his ass. Foreman down twice in 4th. Foreman's mind games got to him and fighting in Puerto Rico was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Rones psyche up.


Beating Foreman is what made ALI be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the right game plan and style to beat Foreman.

Beating from Ali has allowed to tell Foreman later (interview before his fight vs Moorer): "I think he would beat me again in second fight and third". But it is not necessary to listen this - Forman was for certain strongly drunk, when spoke it. Fights with Frazier is made Foreman be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the hard right hand and nice jaw to beat Frazier. Outside of any doubts Foreman the best heavyweight not only 70 but of all time (sure - P4P) and he is MUCH better than Ali. No questions about it.

I think Ali would win, Tyson is kinda like Frazier.

Foreman lost to Jimmy Young in 1977 and was KD during this fiht. And Jimmy Young was a nobody before and after he fought Foreman, the guy he fought before fighting Foreman was 13-7 (except Ali - lost by UD, and Lyle) and so were all the opponents Young had fought up to that point. His only notable win before and after beating Foreman was win over Ron Lyle.


Foreman basically got lucky against Lyle, if they ever rematched Ron would have beaten his ass. Foreman down twice in 4th. Foreman's mind games got to him and fighting in Puerto Rico was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Rones psyche up.


Beating from Ali has allowed to tell Foreman later (interview before his fight vs Moorer): "I think he would beat me again in second fight and third". But it is not necessary to listen this - Forman was for certain strongly drunk, when spoke it. Fights with Frazier is made Foreman be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the hard right hand and nice jaw to beat Frazier. Outside of any doubts Foreman the best heavyweight not only 70 but of all time (sure - P4P) and he is MUCH better than Ali. No questions about it.

Your attempt to parrot my solid arguments is pathetic, however mildly entertaining.

Of course, this is all guesswork but I think a strong, fast afoot and hand fighter like Ali with great stamina would easily outbox and fight off Tyson. He'd push and pull him as he did every guy who managed to close with him when he slowed later in his career and ring general him to death. Ali, by 4 or 5 points over 15 rds, if he didn't finish him in a barrage of punches.

This is Ali before his long break.

I think Ali would win, Tyson is kinda like Frazier.
Both had great power, but Tyson had more head movement and alot more speed in both hands.

When was Ali's prime? no doubt the fight that made his career was the win over foreman that was in 1974, so you should say 1974 was his prime. His win over Liston is overrated because Liston was all f***ed up when they fought and took a dive in one of the fights. . If Muhammad Ali never beat Foreman he would be regarded so much lower. He lost to Leon Spinks in Spinks's 8th professional fight 5 months after Ali won a UD over Shavers. He lost to Ken Norton in 1971, got his jaw broken in that fight. And Ken Norton was a nobody before he fought Ali, the guy he fought before fighting ALi was 22-8 and so were all the opponents Norton had fought up to that point. His only notable win besides beating ALi was stopping Jerry Quarrey.

Beating Foreman is what made ALI be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the right game plan and style to beat Foreman.

Foreman made Norton and Frazier and Lyle look like nothing while 2 of those guys beat Ali in his prime. Foreman knocked Norton out in 2. Knocked Frazier down 5 times etc....
Ali basically got lucky against Foreman, if they ever rematched Foreman would have beaten his ass. Ali's mind games got to him and fighting in Africa was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Georges psyche up.

Foreman KO'd Ron Lyle in 5 while Ali was loosing his fight against Lyle until Ali got a gift premature stoppage, the ref stopped the fight just because Ali flurried basically it was one of the worst stoppages I have ever seen, if the ref was honest Lyle would have went on to beat Ali. The win over Lyle is one Ali's biggest wins, and he did not deserve to win that fight. And of course look how much Ali struggled with Frazier but Foreman obliterated him.


George Foreman is better than Ali, George Foreman made Ali, George Foreman is the real greatest of the 70's. George Foreman is the man who made the man who you proclaim falsely as being the man in boxing.

http://biografieonline.it/img/bio/g/George_Foreman.jpg

http://www.forbesbookclub.com/bookimages/ingram/074/320/0743200934.gif

You know damn well 74 was far from Ali's prime, LOMFL. The Foreman fight was resounding because of Ali's return from his exile and Foreman's domination up to that point.

Physically, Ali was god-like BEFORE he was stripped.

Your attempt to parrot my solid arguments is pathetic, however mildly entertaining.
:D You very much love yourself, as I see.

Your attempt to answer for my solid arguments even not is pathetic or actual, but entertaining twice.

Another pathetic argument

i think tyson would win, tyson is a beast who is similar but better than frazier in some ways and frazier came very close so i think tyson would do it

mike will kill ali

mike will kill ali


You think ? Ooh, wait.....you obviously aren't thinking......

mike will kill ali
Only with AK-47.

Ali would dance around to much for Mike to shoot him XD

Do you guys consider Ali the best boxer of all time? I do!

Ali would eat Tyson for lunch. Tyson's head movement would be completely nulluified by Ali's quick flurries, (a la vs Frazier II and III) and his whole strategy would fall apart. Tyson doesn't stand a chance. And Tyson's weaknesses are far different from Liston's. Liston has more heart, a better chin and is an all around better boxer than Tyson and Ali made him look foolish. So, with Tyson's limited arsenal and even more limited patience and heart, how would he even be expected to last past the 5th round? Only in the mind of a Tyson fan. :rolleyes:

Ali TKO 5 or DQ 5

Ali would have messed up Tyson's head before they even got into the ring.

Exactly what I was thinking. :)

BWHAHAHA i cant believe this is up for debate....anyone who can take the massive amounts of punishment like ali can...can beat the shit out of tyson....tyson fights for a round and a half...then i could knock him out...cassius was the king of ring....if anyone ever thought or even thinks that tyson could have even been close to beating cassius they are mentally ill. FOR GOD SAKES JUST WEATHER the tyson storm and even people like say.....danny williams can knock that chump out....but as far as ali vs tyson...ali would eventually ko tyson 4th maybe 5th if tyson runs good...hahaha

There was only one man who could give Tyson a run for his money in both a verbal battle as well as a Boxing match, and that was Ali. Ali would take his time to KO Tyson just to make him look bad like he did with so many other opponents. I think that Ali had more skill in every aspect of boxing accept power and you saw what happened when Ali went against people with power just look at the Foreman fight for example. Use your heads people ALI KO in 8

This would have been an all-time great match-up.

However, a couple things a re troubling here. First of all, whomever one chooses to win is ignoring what the opponents "prime" was like.

I could see it playing out either way. Ali, prime from about 64-67, was tall skinny, and lack power like he did in his later career. He has outstanding footwork, but he had poor fundamentals. He was able to get away with it because of the quality of his opposition. He fought guys who were old, or slow. Patterson was fast, but he was very old, past his best days. Liston has hella power, but he was slow.

The prime Tyson, who was still a D'Amato disciple who trained with Kevin Rooney, is not easily intimidated. He might have had faster hands than Ali, surely in combinations. Ali had a wondeful, flickiing, lighning-fast jab...

Tyson was a bug puncher, but he was much different than Foreman, Shavers, or Frazier. He threw punches in combinations, from every angle. Ali has seen nothing like a prime Tyson, especially while he was in his prime. Think about it? Ali was not unhittable during his prime. He got dropped by Henry (185 lbs) Cooper during his prime. He would have likely lost that fight if Angelo Dundee had not ripped Ali's glove affording Ali time to recover.

If the Tyson of 1986-1988 trained hard, and had Rooney in his corner, fought Ali from 64-67, Tyson would stop him. Ali was better suited to fight someone like Tyson in his 70s career.

It would be power vs speed, and Ali totally destroys Tyson.

He got dropped by Henry (185 lbs) Cooper during his prime. He would have likely lost that fight if Angelo Dundee had not ripped Ali's glove affording Ali time to recover.


You know what pisses me off? When Ali haters immediatly point to this fight when against Ali. This was not in his prime, this was about 3 years before it. And no, Ali would not have lost. If I can remember correctly, Cooper had the most devastating cut I've ever seen. And streams of blood covered his face.

Iron Mike punches hard,
receive too many it is the grave yard.
He has destroyed every fighter around.
Who can beat him? Where is he found?

Tyson stands in the middle of the ring,
about his greatness he sings,
Then from the dark comes, 'He will never beat me!'
Who? Yes! it is Muhammad Ali.!

Ali jumps into the ring, with a thunderous roar,
saying: 'This is going to be a fight like never before!!!'
Tyson is too ugly to be king,
I'll kick his butt across this ring!'

The bell for round one sounds,
look at Ali dance around.
Pop...pop...pop, jabs to Tyson's face,
but can Ali keep up this pace?
Ali jabs like a piston,
and not a one is a missin'.
Ali jabs p-p-p-p-p, is all you hear,
in Tyson's eyes the look is fear!

Rounds three to seven, much of the same.
Ali is at the top of his game.
Then a right catches Ali flush,
and over the crowd comes a hush.
Ali staggers, is this the end?
If Tyson lands another, he will win!
Tyson can't hit Ali on the ropes,
Ali suckered him with rope-a-dope.

At the start of round nine,
Ali yells: 'Your behind is mine!'
Ali bounces off the ropes with a double-clutch shuffle,
a five punch combo, Tyson's knees buckle.
Ali punches so fast, Tyson head spins,
Then it is all over, as the towel is thrown in.

ALI...ALI...ALI!!! rings from the crowd,
Muhammad Ali, still the greatest around!
(ALI BY 9 ROUND TKO) :boxing:

I was watching some of tyson's early figths on espn classic on saturday and from what I seen, tyson has always got hit, he just had so much power that once he got an oppurtunity he was serving concussions with that left hook and right upper cut, but I believe muhammad ali would have beat tyson much like he beat floyd patterson, because they had relatively similiar stlyes...

I think Ali would force Tyson to do something stupid

Ali would have messed up Tyson's head before they even got into the ring.

Plus Ali had too much speed for Tyson and I dont think Tyson hits anywhere near hard has Foreman did so Ali would dance all over Tyson and hit with combos he never seen in his life

"(HITTIN CONGO DRUMS) THE CHAMP IS HERE"-ALI

wat the fuck is wrong with u stupid imbosoles who believe ali wud beeat tyson, youse must be on cocaine u dumb fucks. youse think he can take 100,000 punches to the head and body, and youse bleieve he is fast as a bullet and is perfect, youse must be crazy u dumb fucks. eat dicks. hes a fighter who talked shit, i admit dat, he did nuthin special u dum asses, i dont know why the whole world sucks his dick, is it pity or stupidity.

Ali's era was slow a feeble Tysons Era is faster and stronger.
An upgrade of Ali's competition except Frazier, Liston, and Foreman.
Ali never fought smoe one would could match him blow for blo with great speed and defence not too mention sleeping power in a jab.

"fuck Holifield"

your krazay Tyson wouldnt be overwhelmed by such a light fighter
Tyson punched harder than forman. and had sharper punches than Ali.

In tysons prime you couldnt stick and move or stand infront of him he was just too much.19-0 on stick and move and whatever else you through at him .




"fuck Holifield"

Tyson would KO Ali within
4 to 5 rounds like he did larry
holmes.

Ali by late round stoppage or unanimous decision.

Tyson would KO Ali within
4 to 5 rounds like he did larry
holmes.
Tyson vs. Ali would first of all be to big a fight for HBO or Showtime we would need some other classics to be the undercard like Hopkins vs. Jones now.Or SRLvs.Duran 3/ Foreman vs Holmes in thier prime. I think Tyson has the best chance of any heavyweight in their prime of not only beating Ali but KOing him too,

TYsoN Split in 15th, gets up after 2 knockdowns Ali falls Twice also.
(he fell in the 15th and was saved by the bell.)

your krazay Tyson wouldnt be overwhelmed by such a light fighter
Tyson punched harder than forman. and had sharper punches than Ali.

In tysons prime you couldnt stick and move or stand infront of him he was just too much.19-0 on stick and move and whatever else you through at him .




"fuck Holifield"

Foreman hits quite the bit harder than Tyson does, actually alot harder...His punches weren't as sharp as Ali's either!

You know what the funny thing is? Ali fought all of the better people he fought when he was out of his prime.

Tyson fought all of the good people out of his prime, but they destroyed him. Ali beat all the good people out of his prime.

wat the fuck is wrong with u stupid imbosoles who believe ali wud beeat tyson, youse must be on cocaine u dumb fucks. youse think he can take 100,000 punches to the head and body, and youse bleieve he is fast as a bullet and is perfect, youse must be crazy u dumb fucks. eat dicks. hes a fighter who talked shit, i admit dat, he did nuthin special u dum asses, i dont know why the whole world sucks his dick, is it pity or stupidity.
what is pitiful is your retarded post, tyson's power bailed him out all those years, he was just young and cock strong knocking out old ass men, but he was getting hit a lot back in the day, ali would have fucked tyson up plain and simple, liston was tyson like and he couldn't do it, and foreman had knocked everybody out before he got knocked out by ali, I can see from you're avatar you are a dillusioned tyson fan, you probably still think he could be champ again...

tyson to me is essentially joe frazier's frame with the power (maybe more power) of george foreman. which is scary. now prime against prime is another thing. frazier certainly never faced ali in his prime so you can't write off ali and say tyson would kill him (but ali 1970 and on, yes a prime tyson would certainly beat). i think when it comes down to it, ali has the reach and his speed is high enough to stay away (but i don't think anyone could call tyson slow by any measure). i think ali would beat tyson 3 out of 5 times. but both boxers had the neccesary skills and physical assets to best the other in their prime years.

Ali in his prime wasnt strong enough to KO Tyson in Tyson's prime.
Tyson was the anti-Ali back in his prime the advil to the ali headache. Of all the great fighters Ali fought none was as explosive as Tyson was in his prime.

Ali in his prime wasnt strong enough to KO Tyson in Tyson's prime.
Tyson was the anti-Ali back in his prime the advil to the ali headache. Of all the great fighters Ali fought none was as explosive as Tyson was in his prime.

Well let's see here. He fought Liston, who could hit just as hard as Tyson, maybe even harder. He fought Cleveland Williams, he had one of the highest KO percentages of all-time and considered one of the greatest to never hold the title.

Out of his prime he fought Joe Frazier, who was just like Tyson but with more attack, heart, and chin. Tyson's and Frazier's power were nearly equal (I'd rather get hit by one of Tyson's uppercuts than one of Joe's left hooks to the body or head). He once hit Chuvalo so hard that it tore his eye out of it's socket. Unlike Tyson, Joe kept coming no matter what, wheter he was tired or not.

He also fought George Foreman out of his prime, he was easily the hardest-hitting champion of all-time. His power destroys Tyson's. Tyson never lifted anyone off of their feet from one punch. Tyson never knocked any fighter out within 2 rounds on the same level as Frazier or Norton. George had much more heart than Tyson as well. You don't belive me, watch the Lyle fight. He gets dropped, gets up and drops Lyle, who gets up and drops George again. Then George gets back up and KO's Lyle. Tyson was terrified of a 42 year-old Foreman. A much slower, weaker, and nicer Foreman.

So no, Ali would destroy Tyson in his prime during the 60's, and he would beat Tyson out of his prime in the 70's.

Well let's see here. He fought Liston, who could hit just as hard as Tyson, maybe even harder. He fought Cleveland Williams, he had one of the highest KO percentages of all-time and considered one of the greatest to never hold the title.

Out of his prime he fought Joe Frazier, who was just like Tyson but with more attack, heart, and chin. Tyson's and Frazier's power were nearly equal (I'd rather get hit by one of Tyson's uppercuts than one of Joe's left hooks to the body or head). He once hit Chuvalo so hard that it tore his eye out of it's socket. Unlike Tyson, Joe kept coming no matter what, wheter he was tired or not.

He also fought George Foreman out of his prime, he was easily the hardest-hitting champion of all-time. His power destroys Tyson's. Tyson never lifted anyone off of their feet from one punch. Tyson never knocked any fighter out within 2 rounds on the same level as Frazier or Norton. George had much more heart than Tyson as well. You don't belive me, watch the Lyle fight. He gets dropped, gets up and drops Lyle, who gets up and drops George again. Then George gets back up and KO's Lyle. Tyson was terrified of a 42 year-old Foreman. A much slower, weaker, and nicer Foreman.

So no, Ali would destroy Tyson in his prime during the 60's, and he would beat Tyson out of his prime in the 70's.
Ok dude, you are an idiot. There is no one in the history of boxing who can punch like Tyson did, no way in hell, Tyson's discipline and technique was just too good. If you've ever watched Ali fight, Ali did not defend the left hook that well. Tyson has a deadly left hook, and Tyson had some quick hands. May I tell you, Tyson can take a punch.

Dude, I think you're the fucking idiot. Foreman lifted Frazier off of his feet. That's about 205 lbs. And you know what the scary thing is? He didn't even use his body!!! He only used his arm to throw that uppercut. But I'm guessing you've never even seen the fight.

Tyson always used his full body, and if he could hit as hard as Foreman, he would have thrown people into the ceiling. There's no way anyone in boxing history hits as hard as Foreman. He's the only person I can recall lifting a man clean off of his feet with one punch.

Sure, Ali didn't protect the left hook well, but he sure went 42 rounds with Joe, who's left hook is much more deadly than Tyson's.

So yes, if Ali can beat people like Frazier and Foreman when he isn't even in his prime, I'm sure he could beat Mike in his prime.

By the way, Ali also made Sonny Liston look like a fool. Liston hit harder than Tyson.

Of course, you probably don't know that, because the only 2 fights of Liston you have seen are the 2 fights against Ali.

You fucking ******, boxing back in the day was a slugfest, today's boxing is now a freakin science. Nobody trained hard as Tyson dumb fuck, who cares about Foreman and Frazier, Tyson was lifting people off the canvas almost every fight. Obviously you haven't taken the time to watch Tyson fight in the late 80s, you are an idiot. I've seen Foreman fight plenty of times, and yes he hits hard, but Tyson hits harder! His training and conditioning is unheard of, Tyson is too much for Ali to handle. Again, boxing back in the days was just a slugfest, todays boxing is now a science you fucking ******.

Before you say anything ******, watch some of Tyson's fights in the late 80s. You will then see the light, you fucking ******.

Oh trust me, I have seen every single fight of Tyson's career. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And to say Tyson hits harder than Foreman is to say that Kareem-Abdul Jabar was a better defender than Hakeem Olajuwon. No, Tyson never lifted anyone off the canvas, you just made that to cover up for your dumbass.

The only time Tyson could capitalize is within the first 4 rounds. Ali never went down for the count, went 8 rounds with Foreman, and 42 rounds with Frazier. I would think he could handle Tyson in the first few rounds before he started lighting Tyson up.

By the way, who has Tyson beat worth mentioning? Tyson has been knocked out more than any heavyweight champion.

Oh trust me, I have seen every single fight of Tyson's career. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And to say Tyson hits harder than Foreman is to say that Kareem-Abdul Jabar was a better defender than Hakeem Olajuwon. No, Tyson never lifted anyone off the canvas, you just made that to cover up for your dumbass.

The only time Tyson could capitalize is within the first 4 rounds. Ali never went down for the count, went 8 rounds with Foreman, and 42 rounds with Frazier. I would think he could handle Tyson in the first few rounds before he started lighting Tyson up.

By the way, who has Tyson beat worth mentioning? Tyson has been knocked out more than any heavyweight champion.

yeah ali would/could and or proberly mess tyson in his prime up with seriously injuries and win by ud. but to say foreman had more skills is just dumb. the way foreman punch him out aganst ali show how dumb he was. only thing he got better than tyson was his power and chin. frazier had similar left hooks or maybe little better than tyson and averge boxer. his lefthook is not like most people say. like he would ko if he land LOL!!! he got bigger heart. ali got better jab,chin and heart. sum up tyson got better skills,handspeed,headmovement and combinations over foreman,frazier and ali but they probably would win or ko all fighter tyson won over in his prime. but they would struggler more because of style and limit skills. tyson is a complete fighter in his prime. his chin is maybe not iron but he wouldnt got ko with 1 single lucky shot. so that front is safe. its his heart i questioning.

Would Ali beat Tyson.

Course he would. ;)

kapersky,

Finally someone who can argue without saying "******" or dumb shit like "Tyson would fucking kill Ali!"

I wouldn't say Tyson had more handspeed than Ali. Watch his fight with Archie Moore. Those hands are like machine guns. I know Frazier would not KO anyone with one left hook, but it was very deadly and powerful.

No, Ali or Frazier or Foreman wouldn't KO Tyson in round 1, but they would win.

Well dude. There is one thing you need to know about tyson. Tyson is the fastest heavyweight with is hands ever ... his punshes have enaugh energy to knock fraizer, ali, liston and foreman all at once into the next week ... he had more agility than any of those boxers .. the differnese on foreman and other boxer was that foreman is a BIG guy .. that is why he lifted them up in his punshes...

but dont talk that smak about tyson .. he might not be smart .. but he is very clever in the ring .. he is a fast clever and a powerfull guy ..

And one thing about boxing you need to learn if boxer X won Boxer w and boxer W won boxer F .. does not mean that boxer X has to Win boxer f just b cus w won him and he won W ... it is about what style works at the right time at the right time .. we cant talk like this about these guys .... we just cant ..so stop talking smak that does not make a bridge over the canal.

Tyson at one time was once one of my favorite boxers. But some people just come out and destroy him.

No matter how BIG Foreman is, he only used his arm. It doesn't matter how big you are if you just lift someone off their feet with an arm punch.

And one thing about boxing you need to learn if boxer X won Boxer w and boxer W won boxer F .. does not mean that boxer X has to Win boxer f just b cus w won him and he won W ... it is about what style works at the right time at the right time .. we cant talk like this about these guys .... we just cant ..so stop talking smak that does not make a bridge over the canal.

Good quote there.

Tyson has foughtmore heavyweight champions.

TYSON: Holmes, Ruddock, Lewis, Holyfield, Douglas, Spinks

ALI: Frazier, Foreman, Spinks, Liston, Holmes, Patterson, Moore, Norton

Pick the guy who fought back: Green, Tucker, Smith, Holyfield, Lewis, Tillis, the 2 most recent bums. The result was always the same: The other guy either finished on his feet or Tyson finished on his ass. Getting knocked down has never been the issue where greatness is concerned, it's the getting up that enshrines a fighter as an all time great. Liston, Moore, Jones, Quarry, Bonevena, Foley, Ellis, Frazier x 3, Norton x 3, Shavers, Foreman, etc. In almost every case Ali was the guy who should have been beaten before the 1st bell rang and yet he found ways to win. Tyson ? Unless the opponent was already beaten @ the 1st bell, Tyson was exposed. A 1974 Ali would have trained as he did for Frazier in Manila. The end would have come in 6-7 rounds with Tyson throwing in the towel himself. By the way, can you imagine Tyson going on after having a 1971 era Frazier left hook crash off his chin?

Tyson has foughtmore heavyweight champions.

what you mean is beltholders, which is irrelevant

no!!!!!!!!!!Ali would frustrate him for a couple of rounds, and then his legs would get tired.Then when Mike got a hold of em, he would put his ass to the ground.

Pick the guy who fought back: Green, Tucker, Smith, Holyfield, Lewis, Tillis, the 2 most recent bums. The result was always the same: The other guy either finished on his feet or Tyson finished on his ass. Getting knocked down has never been the issue where greatness is concerned, it's the getting up that enshrines a fighter as an all time great. Liston, Moore, Jones, Quarry, Bonevena, Foley, Ellis, Frazier x 3, Norton x 3, Shavers, Foreman, etc. In almost every case Ali was the guy who should have been beaten before the 1st bell rang and yet he found ways to win. Tyson ? Unless the opponent was already beaten @ the 1st bell, Tyson was exposed. A 1974 Ali would have trained as he did for Frazier in Manila. The end would have come in 6-7 rounds with Tyson throwing in the towel himself. By the way, can you imagine Tyson going on after having a 1971 era Frazier left hook crash off his chin?

Not to mention at the end of the last round of a grueling fight where Ali had already taken somewhat of a beating. Not to mention that Ali was past his prime, as well.

If Tyson fought Ali, his only chance to capitalize was the first 5 rounds. If ALi could survive those early rounds, which I'mm 99% sure (seeing that he was always a strong starter) then Tyson would get the hell beaten out of him. Ali lasted 8 rounds with fucking George Foreman pounding away at him. He also went 44 rounds with Joe Frazier. And you know what???? All 4 of these fights were AFTER HIS PRIME. Just think if Tyson fought a quicker, better trained, and more athletic Ali with more stamina.

Not to mention at the end of the last round of a grueling fight where Ali had already taken somewhat of a beating. Not to mention that Ali was past his prime, as well.

If Tyson fought Ali, his only chance to capitalize was the first 5 rounds. If ALi could survive those early rounds, which I'mm 99% sure (seeing that he was always a strong starter) then Tyson would get the hell beaten out of him. Ali lasted 8 rounds with fucking George Foreman pounding away at him. He also went 44 rounds with Joe Frazier. And you know what???? All 4 of these fights were AFTER HIS PRIME. Just think if Tyson fought a quicker, better trained, and more athletic Ali with more stamina.
Tyson would have the ability to suprise Ali like Frazier did because it was a step up in competition and Tyson had the puching power like a foreman to finish ali in a hurry.

A second matchup would be like Ali-Frazier 2 except Tyson would be more pathetic than he was in the douglas fight.(because he failed to train.)

The trd fight would be similar to the Holifeild fight 2nd.
But Tyson would prevail because Ali's chin doesnt quite match-up to EH at that time. :blackeye:

I agree. I think Holmes was very under-rated and he would have squashed Liceon, I mean Tyson.

Pick the guy who fought back: Green, Tucker, Smith, Holyfield, Lewis, Tillis, the 2 most recent bums. The result was always the same: The other guy either finished on his feet or Tyson finished on his ass. Getting knocked down has never been the issue where greatness is concerned, it's the getting up that enshrines a fighter as an all time great. Liston, Moore, Jones, Quarry, Bonevena, Foley, Ellis, Frazier x 3, Norton x 3, Shavers, Foreman, etc. In almost every case Ali was the guy who should have been beaten before the 1st bell rang and yet he found ways to win. Tyson ? Unless the opponent was already beaten @ the 1st bell, Tyson was exposed. A 1974 Ali would have trained as he did for Frazier in Manila. The end would have come in 6-7 rounds with Tyson throwing in the towel himself. By the way, can you imagine Tyson going on after having a 1971 era Frazier left hook crash off his chin?
First of all Ali doesnt have the puching power in his prime to take out tyson. Tyson sure as hell would'nt quit I mean give the man credit he showed up to fight even when he knew he was going to be hurt unlike ,liston.
And still was entertaining.

Gemini, who are you trying to kid??? Ali didn't have the power to KO Tyson...Excuse me, did you never see his fight against 4man?

I said in the 80's that Tyson was a paper champ. All he fought was has beens and wannabes. Any real contender of any real caliber he had, like Holyfield, he lost.

Ali would have spanked Liceon so would Holmes or any other great.

Bassing you are correct. Gemini must in fact be Tyson (whom else would be unable to respond to the issues raised?). Several previous posts state that Ali was KO'd by Frazier-wrong, Frazier won the 1st fight by 15 round UD. Ali did in that fight what Tyson never did-He fought a 15 round brawl with a young undefeated Frazier, went down in the 15th round and get this "Gemini/Tyson"-FINISHED ON HIS FEET! Gemini & the rest of his sorry ilk (they disgrace boxing), refuse to address the following facts 1. Tyson beat of handpicked, frightened fighters 2. Inability to knock out any fighter who wasn't frightened 3. Comparing the likes of Biggs with Ali 4. Inability to win/avoid being KO'd (the guy never lost a fight on his feet!) when the going got tough 5. QUIT when it came time to go through hell to become great. These bums disgrace our sport by wasting their time insulting those who HAVE honored our sport with their blood, heart, courage and sometimes their lives (in some cases for pennies) while their "Hero" disgraced the sport, pissed on the title, squandered millions and QUIT time and again. Their ongoing support of Tyson can only be understood as an attempt to excuse their own wasted & probably pathetic lives. So boys, it's time to get a new "Hero"-Dennis Rodman perhaps?

Liston beat pattersonAli beat them both, Larry holmes beat Ali Tyson beat Holmes.


Where does that put Tyson?Ali?and the rest?

what is pitiful is your retarded post, tyson's power bailed him out all those years, he was just young and cock strong knocking out old ass men, but he was getting hit a lot back in the day, ali would have fucked tyson up plain and simple, liston was tyson like and he couldn't do it, and foreman had knocked everybody out before he got knocked out by ali, I can see from you're avatar you are a dillusioned tyson fan, you probably still think he could be champ again...


liston was tyson like in the power department(which tyson was stronger) and the staredown and intemedation.tyson was alot more elusive meaning his defense he couldnt be touched in his prime i bet u cant name 5 times tyson was rocked between 85-88 and thats not hurt just rocked. and that speed surpasses liston by a mile, i admit liston used his jab for power and tyson used his to get in. but every1 and there mama knows tyson has a powerful ass jab ive seen him knock down two ppl with justa jab he just didnt use it for that purpose.and foreman was way i mean way to slow for ali. whats the use of power if u cant use it. but when u put it all together like tyson did then u got some trouble. ive seen people in there prime try to fight like the ali prime did but it didnt work cause the 80s fighters were faster. and plenty have tried to do it with tyson but it didnt work . what tyson had to do is get ali to the ropes(which he usually did on his own) and go to the body to break ali down. stop all that dancin and movin and when alis covering up from those bodyshots then the face is open. im not sayin tyson will k.o. him but i do believe he could beat him.tyson had angles he could punch u with either hand. alot of the time if u see his old tapes he's square when he fights!!!

liston was tyson like in the power department(which tyson was stronger) and the staredown and intemedation.tyson was alot more elusive meaning his defense he couldnt be touched in his prime i bet u cant name 5 times tyson was rocked between 85-88 and thats not hurt just rocked. and that speed surpasses liston by a mile, i admit liston used his jab for power and tyson used his to get in. but every1 and there mama knows tyson has a powerful ass jab ive seen him knock down two ppl with justa jab he just didnt use it for that purpose.and foreman was way i mean way to slow for ali. whats the use of power if u cant use it. but when u put it all together like tyson did then u got some trouble. ive seen people in there prime try to fight like the ali prime did but it didnt work cause the 80s fighters were faster. and plenty have tried to do it with tyson but it didnt work . what tyson had to do is get ali to the ropes(which he usually did on his own) and go to the body to break ali down. stop all that dancin and movin and when alis covering up from those bodyshots then the face is open. im not sayin tyson will k.o. him but i do believe he could beat him.tyson had angles he could punch u with either hand. alot of the time if u see his old tapes he's square when he fights!!!
What is it with you Tyson "butt puppets" & your inability to spell, put a sentence together, make an effective argument for your "hero"-You've got to be "Iron Mike" himself. I guess the concept of reviewing an "entire" career escapes you. You make the point that "power" is no good if you can't use it-true. But, it's also true that speed/defense such as early Tyson's looked more effective than it was because of the stiffs who were out on their feet before the 1st bell. The true test of greatness came calling & Tyson's chin/heart were less than club level. There are many truly great fighters to praise, Tyson ain't one of them-Never was, never will be-Sorry

Liston beat pattersonAli beat them both, Larry holmes beat Ali Tyson beat Holmes.


Where does that put Tyson?Ali?and the rest?

Ali beat an old, washed up Liston. Not to mention it was arguably one of his best performances in the ring.

Ali also beat an old, washed up Patterson.

Larry Holmes beat Ali fucking 15 years after his prime. Ali was already showing some Parkinson's in him.

Tyson beat Holmes about 8 years after his prime.

You can't say that just because somebody beat someone else who was way after their prime means that that somebody could beat the people that the other person beat.

Every fucking day you hear that Holmes beat the shit out of Ali, or that Ali destroyed Liston, even though they were old, washed-up, and way out of their prime. You never hear people giving Lewis credit for BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF Tyson. Any why is that? Because it was WAY AFTER HIS PRIME.

TYSON: Holmes, Ruddock, Lewis, Holyfield, Douglas, Spinks

ALI: Frazier, Foreman, Spinks, Liston, Holmes, Patterson, Moore, Norton


tucker,pinklon thomas,berbick,frank bruno,and bruce seldon all for tyson ;) get it right :mad:

What is it with you Tyson "butt puppets" & your inability to spell, put a sentence together, make an effective argument for your "hero"-You've got to be "Iron Mike" himself. I guess the concept of reviewing an "entire" career escapes you. You make the point that "power" is no good if you can't use it-true. But, it's also true that speed/defense such as early Tyson's looked more effective than it was because of the stiffs who were out on their feet before the 1st bell. The true test of greatness came calling & Tyson's chin/heart were less than club level. There are many truly great fighters to praise, Tyson ain't one of them-Never was, never will be-Sorry


and who the fuck r u my english 4 teacher in high school go fuck off. i can write how ever i want u understood didnt u stupid. and thats your opinion about tyson so what think i care. go tell someone else about your moaning and bitching. and by the way why dont u take your cramp pills for your period cause u bitchin ;)

i'm sorry, UD and K.O are 2 drastically different things mate, get your facts straight.

No its about styles with ALi and Tyson.Just liked Joe knocked Alie out in their first fight.Tyson would do the same ,only a lot quicker,because of the footwork,and speed.
last post with reference to this guy.

The way i see it is if Tony Tucker can survive with Tyson for 12 rounds, poorly emulating Ali's style than Ali can take it a stage further. Ali fought Foreman and Shavers, in my opinion 2 fighters with greater 1 punch K.O power than tyson. He chinned them. I can see Ali dancing around for a few rounds, popping the jab and those lightning rights, gradually wearing down Tyson's will and stamina. And then Ali pouring it on, perhaps getting stopped by the ref or on cuts. Can't really see Tyson getting KTFO, like unconcious, more due to exhaustion at hitting fresh air. He will always have a punchers chance of course, but when did that ever work for anyone else who faced ali? Nope, never sparked.

Who in the fuck said the Joe knocked Ali out?

Ali never went down for the count, and was only stopped against Holmes in 1980, and that was because his trainers saw that he was getting fucked up. A few months later, Parkinson's disease was found in him.

Once Tyson tires himself out in the early (first 5) rounds, it would be all Muhammad. And I'm 99% sure that Muhammad would make it through the first couple of rounds (seeing that he went 8 rounds with Foreman throwing all he had and 42 rounds with Joe Frazier).

tucker,pinklon thomas,berbick,frank bruno,and bruce seldon all for tyson ;) get it right :mad:
Simply because your're boring, uninformed & pathetic-don't blame me

Let's see-Like Tyson, ALI & Larry did in fact beat guys past there prime but I don't remember either quitting against a bum who never had a prime. I suppose I'm a fool for thinking there is a difference-sorry

:boxing: Let's see-Like Tyson, ALI & Larry did in fact beat guys past there prime but I don't remember either quitting against a bum who never had a prime. I suppose I'm a fool for thinking there is a difference-sorry
Try carrying a sport for nearly 3 decades :cool:

Ali beat an old, washed up Liston. Not to mention it was arguably one of his best performances in the ring.

Ali also beat an old, washed up Patterson.

Larry Holmes beat Ali fucking 15 years after his prime. Ali was already showing some Parkinson's in him.

Tyson beat Holmes about 8 years after his prime.

You can't say that just because somebody beat someone else who was way after their prime means that that somebody could beat the people that the other person beat.

Every fucking day you hear that Holmes beat the shit out of Ali, or that Ali destroyed Liston, even though they were old, washed-up, and way out of their prime. You never hear people giving Lewis credit for BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF Tyson. Any why is that? Because it was WAY AFTER HIS PRIME.
I'm just pointing out that both Ali and Tyson were able to conquer the leaders of the last generation. :boxing:

:boxing:
Try carrying a sport for nearly 3 decades :cool:
Are you implying Tyson has carried boxing for 3 decades? Yes, it is true that saps like you will pay & fill arenas to watch Tyson pound on a stiff or get KO'd by one but "carry the sport"! Please name the top 10 competion Tyson prevailed against since he was KO'd by Douglas. If anything he has been an insult to the sport. Corrales/Castillo 1 has been more of a credit to our sport that Tyson's entire career put together. Take away the "freak show" factor and what do you have? Perhaps 2-3 years of what could have been a good career-but carrying boxing? Please!

:boxing:
Try carrying a sport for nearly 3 decades :cool:

Well, Ali did, and he never quit to anyone like McBride.

Gemini get a grip on reality!!!! Holmes beat Ali; Tyson beat Holmes. How do yopu even compare that, dork? Holmes was in his prime when he beat Ali. He was too old when he fought Tyson. Hell, he was 276 and qualified for medicare!!

You can not even begin to make that distinction. My god!!! Holmes wouyld have destropyed Liceon in his prime. He was very elusive; Tyson would not have been able to land anything worthy. He was too powerful. Liceon fell to Holeyfield, come on. Holmes would have KOed him in 2.

Dude, Tyson isn't even close to carrying the sport for 3 decades. He would have to carry it for another 10 years for that. Anyway, he hasn't carried since he lost to Douglas. He carried the sport for about 5 years.

Ali carried the sport for nearly 15 years. Joe Louis carried the sport between 10 and 15 years. Joe Frazier carried the sport for just as long as Tyson. So did Liston.

ali let ppl hit him to tire them out. If he did that with tyson, he would get knocked out with tyson's power

ali let ppl hit him to tire them out. If he did that with tyson, he would get knocked out with tyson's power

BULL!!!!!!!! He stood up to 4mans power in 4man's prime and let 4man pound him and still KOed 4man. How would Tyson put him down when he could stand up to that???

I'd put money on Tyson to kick all their asses
money that you would lose on a misinformed and foolish bet.

:boxing: Gemini get a grip on reality!!!! Holmes beat Ali; Tyson beat Holmes. How do yopu even compare that, dork? Holmes was in his prime when he beat Ali. He was too old when he fought Tyson. Hell, he was 276 and qualified for medicare!!

You can not even begin to make that distinction. My god!!! Holmes wouyld have destropyed Liceon in his prime. He was very elusive; Tyson would not have been able to land anything worthy. He was too powerful. Liceon fell to Holeyfield, come on. Holmes would have KOed him in 2.
You get a grip I dont think its that serious besides I was going on the fact that Holmes said that he would beat Ali in his prime also.

Anyways the best holmes could do to Tyson in his prime was whAt Quick Tillis did.........................
......Stay Alive. :boxing:

Well, Ali did, and he never quit to anyone like McBride.
3 decaeds I think not Ali maybe 2.5 but Tyson could still do it for 1 more. Losing and fighting dirty as hell to knock out some bums and make some money.

Are you implying Tyson has carried boxing for 3 decades? Yes, it is true that saps like you will pay & fill arenas to watch Tyson pound on a stiff or get KO'd by one but "carry the sport"! Please name the top 10 competion Tyson prevailed against since he was KO'd by Douglas. If anything he has been an insult to the sport. Corrales/Castillo 1 has been more of a credit to our sport that Tyson's entire career put together. Take away the "freak show" factor and what do you have? Perhaps 2-3 years of what could have been a good career-but carrying boxing? Please!
No other fighter comes close period true boxing fans remember the awe and stillness of Tyson's mystique as he climbed his way to the top.
Even his conquerors didnt compare to his worst day.
True fans appreciate the dominance he had while climbing to the top and how he manages still even in his dimmest years to capture interest. When Tyson peaked hewas the greatest of all time he just didnt stay there that long yet he didnt fly off radar either. 1986 he started 2005-2006 he still is a threat(one punch) in the division and is trying to clean up his image.

Let's see-Like Tyson, ALI & Larry did in fact beat guys past there prime but I don't remember either quitting against a bum who never had a prime. I suppose I'm a fool for thinking there is a difference-sorry


the think about u is that your a tyson hater. tyson musta raped your mom or beat your dad up in the first round or something cause u starting to sound like beanard hopkins and BITCHIN!!!!!! and i cant believe we have a official english 4 teacher on here(watch out guys if u dont puncuate right he's going to go off on u)I didnt know we had to spell correctly for other ppl on there there OWN computer.

The thing that I remember about Tyson, is the look on his opponents face when they stepped in to the ring. Scared shitless. ALso, he "was" very hard to hit. His torso was always moving while he stalked. Tysons down fall was the fact that as Mitch Green said, "Tyson is a Sissy". To me this makes Tyson that much more impressive. For a chicken-hearted man to be so feared is quite an accomplishment. If Tyson had the heart of a lion, it would be Buster Who? and Holyfield would have been beat back into the Lightheavy wt division where he belonged. Tyson would have beat the hell out of Ali. Unlike Forman, Tyson had much more accurate punches. Rope a dope my ass, It would not have worked with Tyson. BTW, When Mitch Green called Tyson a sissy, his eye was beat shut from a single Tyson blow.

For all you Tyson "LOVERS"- How do you maintain a thought and "attempt" to type it out when you have you lips wraped around Tyson's balls? (perhaps because their Tyson's it's less than a mouthful). Oh & "Mysyal"-I didn't mean to (dis) your pride, who am I to see the sense in being understood by those of us who have to suffer through your feeble attempts at english. "ToiBoi"? The name says it all, I think I get the Tyson fasination. By the by-I don't remember that "scared shitless" look on any of the many guys (bums included) who KO'd your "hero". "Mitch Green"!, now there's a Hall of Famer-I think even you could have shut that eye!

ali let ppl hit him to tire them out. If he did that with tyson, he would get knocked out with tyson's power

Actually, Ali did that one time, and that was against Foreman. Who the hell said that Ali would use that strategy against Tyson. Even if he did, he survived Foreman beating him for 8 rounds, so why not Tyson?

what you are failing to consider is that tyson was trained to perfection by cus d'amato, who also trained floyd patterson, who was slower and weaker than ali and was getting over the flu in their first fight and an injury in their second. both times he gave ali something to think about but couldnt handle the distance. Tyson had more power in a jab going backwards, (which he never really used) than pattersons meanest hook, uppercut or cross. Tyson WAS quicker than patterson, ali, anyone. Tyson was the quickest heavyweight of significance ever, plus hes up there in the top 5 power punchers of all time. Ali was quick, but not quicker than iron mike. Plus mike was only ever knocked out once, against a hard hitting douglas over 10 rounds. All the other losses were just being ground down or quitting. Ali couldnt have done that to the pre-douglas tyson because he couldnt have hit him. Think about it, Joe frazier took 3 or 4 to the mush to give one and with that no defense style he beat ali in the first one. fraziers left hook is probably a little more powerful than tysons when he got it off full blast, but tyson had the "upper-hook" two punches in one that would get off so fast with so much power that he lifted 230+ lb. men off the mat. Did frazier ever do that? could ali take more than a handful of them? i dont think so. ali's generalship wouldnt count for anything against a prime tyson, because back then tyson knew those tricks as well and knew how to counter them. Hes got the edge on speed, power, I'd call it a tie on generalship. Ali's got the footwork. Tysons got chin. Ali would run, but he couldnt do it for 12 rounds and certainly not for 15.

what you are failing to consider is that tyson was trained to perfection by cus d'amato, who also trained floyd patterson, who was slower and weaker than ali and was getting over the flu in their first fight and an injury in their second. both times he gave ali something to think about but couldnt handle the distance. Tyson had more power in a jab going backwards, (which he never really used) than pattersons meanest hook, uppercut or cross. Tyson WAS quicker than patterson, ali, anyone. Tyson was the quickest heavyweight of significance ever, plus hes up there in the top 5 power punchers of all time. Ali was quick, but not quicker than iron mike. Plus mike was only ever knocked out once, against a hard hitting douglas over 10 rounds. All the other losses were just being ground down or quitting. Ali couldnt have done that to the pre-douglas tyson because he couldnt have hit him. Think about it, Joe frazier took 3 or 4 to the mush to give one and with that no defense style he beat ali in the first one. fraziers left hook is probably a little more powerful than tysons when he got it off full blast, but tyson had the "upper-hook" two punches in one that would get off so fast with so much power that he lifted 230+ lb. men off the mat. Did frazier ever do that? could ali take more than a handful of them? i dont think so. ali's generalship wouldnt count for anything against a prime tyson, because back then tyson knew those tricks as well and knew how to counter them. Hes got the edge on speed, power, I'd call it a tie on generalship. Ali's got the footwork. Tysons got chin. Ali would run, but he couldnt do it for 12 rounds and certainly not for 15.
Where do you guys come from? Have you ever really seen any of the fighters you allude to? Patterson was getting over the flu? Gee, I remember boxing history having it as Patterson had a bad back, Ali toyed with him then KO'd the poor guy. 1st fight/2nd fight regardless the excuse, the results were the same. Wait! Oh, Floyd was one of Cus's fighters, so he needs you guys like "Iron" Mike (the excuse thing). Yeah, the old vet had the young'in Ali on the "brink" twice! Yeah, the forgotten boxing talents of Tyson, could jab just like Ali when backing up. So, it took a "hard" hitting Douglas to stop the Tyson "express", I guess we were all seeing things (sorta like Patterson getting his ass kicked against Ali) when the "Iron one" was on the deck against Holyfield, Lewis, etc. Ali's ring saavy wouldn't count? I guess you're right, look how little Holyfield's & Lewis's did for them. Oh and how could I be so blind! Of course Tyson had a better chin than Ali, I mean Wepner had Ali out on his feet!!!

what you are failing to consider is that tyson was trained to perfection by cus d'amato, who also trained floyd patterson, who was slower and weaker than ali and was getting over the flu in their first fight and an injury in their second. both times he gave ali something to think about but couldnt handle the distance. Tyson had more power in a jab going backwards, (which he never really used) than pattersons meanest hook, uppercut or cross. Tyson WAS quicker than patterson, ali, anyone. Tyson was the quickest heavyweight of significance ever, plus hes up there in the top 5 power punchers of all time. Ali was quick, but not quicker than iron mike. Plus mike was only ever knocked out once, against a hard hitting douglas over 10 rounds. All the other losses were just being ground down or quitting. Ali couldnt have done that to the pre-douglas tyson because he couldnt have hit him. Think about it, Joe frazier took 3 or 4 to the mush to give one and with that no defense style he beat ali in the first one. fraziers left hook is probably a little more powerful than tysons when he got it off full blast, but tyson had the "upper-hook" two punches in one that would get off so fast with so much power that he lifted 230+ lb. men off the mat. Did frazier ever do that? could ali take more than a handful of them? i dont think so. ali's generalship wouldnt count for anything against a prime tyson, because back then tyson knew those tricks as well and knew how to counter them. Hes got the edge on speed, power, I'd call it a tie on generalship. Ali's got the footwork. Tysons got chin. Ali would run, but he couldnt do it for 12 rounds and certainly not for 15.

STAMINA:
Mike Tyson would not have the stamina to chase Muhammad Ali for 12 or 15 rounds. Ali had incredible stamina and would easily outlast Tyson.

POWER:
Mike Tyson of course. So what? Foreman had more power than did Tyson, and Ali took Foremans best shots for almost 8 rounds. And at age 35 he took some tremendous shots from the hardest puncher of them all, Earnie Shavers.

SPEED:
They both had incredible handspeed, but prime Ali was much, much faster on his feet. When it comes to reflexes, I give them both an A. But considering Alis better stamina, Tyson would tire sooner and slow down.

CHIN:
Ali all the way! Tyson had a solid chin, no doubt, but no where near Ali. I'm thinking Ali had one of the two greatest beards in heavyweight history.

HEART:
Ali had tons of it, Tyson had none of it.

SKILL:
Tyson is somewhat underrated skillwise, and Ali is often overrated. Still, I definitely consider Ali to be the better boxer.

RECUPERATIVE ABILITY:
Ali showed us time and again the ability to come back. Tyson never won a fight where he sucked canvas.

WHY TYSON WOULD WIN:
Mike Tyson would come out fast and tag Ali with some hard, accurate shots. Ali would be caught off balance and slam to the canvas. The ref (who is bribed), jumps in and stops the fight...

WHY ALI WOULD WIN:
Ali would win this one before the bell rang. He would have Tyson scared, pissed off and confused, all at the same time. I can vividly envision Ali imitating Tyson at the press conference, causing a scene.

Tyson would come out fast as he always did in his prime. Ali would be dancing around the ring, grabbing Tyson whenever he got close (remember, Tyson was easy to tie up, even in his prime). After a few rounds, Tyson would be bewildered, tired and behind on points. This is where he caves in and start throwing desperate punches at the always confident Ali. With his speed, timing, stamina and great mobility, Ali would make Tyson look like a fool. He would taunt, hit and dance Tyson into submission. Inside of 10 rounds, Tyson goes down for keeps.

Muhammad Ali by tko10.

Stiv Rex,


You guys keep mentioning Tyson's power and Tyson only being floored by Douglas. Read all we put about Foreman. He hit as hard if not harder than Tyson and had a stronger chin but Ali downed him......

Ali is just too smart and classy for Tyson so Ali couldn't have fought Tyson in his game. :D Holyfield is not even half of Ali's skills in his prime and yet he found a way to defeat Tyson, now how can you argue that Tyson can beat Ali? :D

Tyson doesn't have any other fighting style but to move forward, crowd his opponents and brawl. Ali would have tire him out chasing and frustrating him in the first six rounds with his lighting jabs and take Tyson out in the later rounds.

Watch both of these boxers old fights people and then argue.

M26, the way you break it down is mostly correct, but i have to disagree on a few things. First is stamina. Mike tyson had plenty of stamina pre-douglas, because he still had work ethic. granted it wasnt his own, it was the remnants of d'amato's and atlas's training, busting his butt to get him to do his work. But still, a PRIME tyson would have no problem going 12 with a PRIME ali, and by the way, a PRIME tyson is the one i'm saying could beat ali. What tyson didnt have to begin with and never did was heart. You are correct all the way with that. But neither have many of the linear heavyweight champs. you dont need the heart always in the heavyweights, having a chin and a punch that could knock out a horse is enough sometimes. Whether foreman had a better punch than tyson is something i would argue, but it is a seperate point. what you guys missed (intentionally?) in your replies to my message was the reference to frazier. Who else did ali fight that was 4 or 5 inches shorter than him? not many. he had problems with pressure fighters, he tended to run. since he couldnt call it that he called it rope-a-dope. tyson is in the mold of frazier, but he was stronger, had an equal chin, equal stamina, a higher punch output and most *importantly* had some idea about defense, footwork, ring generalship. Ali never beat frazier concretely, he got the points he needed to win. But i cant see how ali could get away from tyson over a 15 rounder, plus he couldnt hit tyson (a PRIME tyson, remember) and wear him down the way he did frazier. Thats how i compare them, styles and bodies of contemporaries. When did tyson ever have trouble with a cutie? never. his defeats were to guys who out-boxed him and had a punch, and honestly i think that ali was fundamentaly flawed. he was a cutie who relied on his hand and foot speed, the former of which would be rendered moot by tysons own handspeed. Think about it though, ali kept his gloves down by his hips in about half of every fight he ever had. he'd only tuck that chin when they got close enough for body work, concerned about catching something coming up. he was a cutie who counted on his reflexes, not fundamentals, which tyson did have and followed to a tee in his prime. yes, michael spinks was not in the same league as ali, but he was the same mold, plus had never been knocked down until his fight with tyson, so who can say how much tyson intimidated him? That brings me to another of your points, M26. Ali wouldnt scare tyson, no one has ever been better at that art of boxing than tyson himself. mike may not have got to ali, but it is ridiculous to think that ali could scare tyson. i will agree that tyson was easy to tie up, but in my opinion hes one of the best infighting heavyweights ever. he always has known what to do, but in his prime he still did it, he still gave half a crap. he could have danced with ali all night. actual smarts is the biggest edge besides heart that ali had. yeah, he would outthink tyson, he would frustrate him a bit. but he couldnt run forever and he couldnt hit him enough to take him out. by the way, the ko's to lewis and holyfield were quitting. that wass the post-douglas tyson that didnt do his work, he didnt have the heart, didnt come into the fight prepared. He had actually begun the slide before the douglas fight and never changed direction, just counted on his punch and intimidation to do the job. if it didnt, he still gave them a tough fight before he quit. i cant remember a first round that tyson ever lost, pre or post. the difference before the slide was that he kept trying, stuck to the rules. by the way, im not trying to make a point here, just curious, how much did foreman weigh for the rumble with ali?

Foreman weighed in at 220 lbs for the "Rumble" with Ali.

I have to disagree with you. Tyson was never in the same league as Ali. And you cannot compare Tyson to Frazier. They were about the same height, but that is about it. Tyson had more speed and power, but Frazier had stamina and heart. This is what made him win the first fight against Ali, and this is what kept him going in the two other fights.

Granted, Tyson had decent stamina in his prime, but he lost much of his punch after five rounds or so. Ali on the other hand, did not fade so much during a fight as did Tyson. This would make all the difference.

Even though Tyson had very fast hands, he was not too quick on his feet. Ali was incredible in that department. He would easily keep Tyson away by dancing and sticking him with ripping jabs. And if Tyson ever got close, Ali would simply tie him up.

Tyson had very good reflexes, but Ali was so fast with his hands that I can see him hurting Tyson, even in the earlier rounds.

Tyson did scare other fighters, that is true. This is often why he won! He had his foe so scared that the fight became a walk in the park for Tyson. A good example is the Spinks fight... Can you envision Ali being scared of Tyson? Never.

You say Ali could not scare Tyson? I beg to differ. A 23 year-old Tyson was afraid to fight a 41 year-old George Foreman back in 1990. This should tell you something...

Tyson was a schoolyard bully who looked awesome fighting lesser foes. Once someone stood up to him, he lost his cool. Ali would not only stand up to him, he would destroy him.

Muhammad Ali by tko10.

Foreman weighed in at 220 lbs for the "Rumble" with Ali.

I have to disagree with you. Tyson was never in the same league as Ali. And you cannot compare Tyson to Frazier. They were about the same height, but that is about it. Tyson had more speed and power, but Frazier had stamina and heart. This is what made him win the first fight against Ali, and this is what kept him going in the two other fights.

Granted, Tyson had decent stamina in his prime, but he lost much of his punch after five rounds or so. Ali on the other hand, did not fade so much during a fight as did Tyson. This would make all the difference.

Even though Tyson had very fast hands, he was not too quick on his feet. Ali was incredible in that department. He would easily keep Tyson away by dancing and sticking him with ripping jabs. And if Tyson ever got close, Ali would simply tie him up.

Tyson had very good reflexes, but Ali was so fast with his hands that I can see him hurting Tyson, even in the earlier rounds.

Tyson did scare other fighters, that is true. This is often why he won! He had his foe so scared that the fight became a walk in the park for Tyson. A good example is the Spinks fight... Can you envision Ali being scared of Tyson? Never.

You say Ali could not scare Tyson? I beg to differ. A 23 year-old Tyson was afraid to fight a 41 year-old George Foreman back in 1990. This should tell you something...

Tyson was a schoolyard bully who looked awesome fighting lesser foes. Once someone stood up to him, he lost his cool. Ali would not only stand up to him, he would destroy him.

Muhammad Ali by tko10.


Very well explained ;) You seems to have done your research very well.

You are right, most of Tyson's fights were won even before the fighters climb into the ring. Most of his opponents came in there not to fight but merely to survive never threathening Tyson at any point, never throwing punches backing up and covering, moving away from his power punches and when Buster Douglas and Holyfield came into the picture and gave him a real threat, a real challenge, TYSON lost.

This should give people a clear picture of Tyson's one dimensional fighting style and his stamina. How many times did he fought at full 12 rounds during his prime?

And Ali having an incredible footwork, skills and being a master tactician not to mention his elongated reach will always find a way to neutralize Tyson's aggresiveness and tire him out in the early rounds for a late K.O.

tyson is just a smaller liston. ali would call the round in which to ko tyson and would do it. he would also write a poem about it too. it would go something like this

"he can't touch me, this chump can't survive
iron mike goes down in five" lol! :D

tyson is just a smaller liston. ali would call the round in which to ko tyson and would do it. he would also write a poem about it too. it would go something like this

"he can't touch me, this chump can't survive
iron mike goes down in five" lol! :D

That's for sure! :)

Tyson and Frazier hit nearly equal. I don't remember hearing Mike Tyson tearing someone's eye out of it's socket.

Tyson and Frazier hit nearly equal. I don't remember hearing Mike Tyson tearing someone's eye out of it's socket.

As far as ripping an eye out goes, that is impossible to do with a clean punch, and any boxer could rip out an eye by sticking a thumb (intentionally or not)in the socket on the punch. doesnt prove anything, although i never heard that story about frazier. care to elaborate? what fight was that in? I'm kindof a young'in so i only have been able to see the frazier fights on espn classic.
i did hear that tyson gave steve zouski (sorry about the spelling) double vision for a week after his fight. i remember seeing him lift at least a dozen opponents off the mat with uppercuts, and being able to hit them again with hooks 2 or 3 times before they hit the mat. never saw frazier do any of that. i did see foreman lift a few, but he was slow as molasses in winter and couldnt hit them again quickly enough.

As far as ripping an eye out goes, that is impossible to do with a clean punch, and any boxer could rip out an eye by sticking a thumb (intentionally or not)in the socket on the punch. doesnt prove anything, although i never heard that story about frazier. care to elaborate? what fight was that in? I'm kindof a young'in so i only have been able to see the frazier fights on espn classic.
i did hear that tyson gave steve zouski (sorry about the spelling) double vision for a week after his fight. i remember seeing him lift at least a dozen opponents off the mat with uppercuts, and being able to hit them again with hooks 2 or 3 times before they hit the mat. never saw frazier do any of that. i did see foreman lift a few, but he was slow as molasses in winter and couldnt hit them again quickly enough.
the socket fight was when he faced george chuvalo, the toughest fighter ever. after his eye was decapitated, he still didn't go down. he never went down his whole career, not even frazier could say that. man, i can't believe that actually happened. that is amazing!

Thank you, Butterfly just summed it up for you.

thats one tought sonofabitch, i wonder if anybody could ever drop him

Mike tyson would be frustrated into defeat.

The only person I can see dropping Chuvalo would be a prime Joe Louis on the best night of his career. Foreman couldn't drop him. Frazier couldn't. Ali couldn't. Patterson couldn't. If Frazier can't drop him, Dempsey probably couldn't drop him.

The only person I can see dropping Chuvalo would be a prime Joe Louis on the best night of his career. Foreman couldn't drop him. Frazier couldn't. Ali couldn't. Patterson couldn't. If Frazier can't drop him, Dempsey probably couldn't drop him.
maybe jersey joe walcott, he was a master of catching you off balance.

maybe jersey joe walcott, he was a master of catching you off balance.

look, if foreman couldn't drop him, then nobody could drop him, and foreman is known to dropping pretty much anybody. ali is the only person to ko foreman, the first to ko chuck wepner, and the first to tko lyle, and in two tries he couldn't ko chuvalo, drop him or tko him, so nobody could. :cool:

im not saying he would hurt him like foreman could i mean he would catch him off balance while not hurting him

im not saying he would hurt him like foreman could i mean he would catch him off balance while not hurtin