undefinedundefinedundefinedThe title says it all, if there could be a fight of both fighters in there prime, the showdown of the century,the greatest of two times. Who would kick who's ass? first off you would have to decide what the rules are, is rope a dope an option? or would ali get disqualified? would tysons strenght be to mighty for ali? I think not, ali faught some hard punchers in his lifetime ex.foreman he seemed to use technique quit well against any of his opponents. He realized what his contendor would do and retaliate against it. Maybe im wrong, maybe tyson's aggression would creame ali, its true ali couldn't take that much of a punch, he just rarely got hit with a nice shot is all. He was so eager to dance around in circles. I believe if tyson did not remove ali's head from his body within the first four rounds (which is usually tyson's strategy) then the match would go to ali and vise versa. however this is just my theory? anyone is able to put up your views, like for instance i believe ali was the greatest there ever was. he used a cool head and had the art of movement, he wasnt just a crazy ass tank who tried to **** people up. he won by technique. Anyone who thinks differently go ahead and tell me why im wrong.

This would be no match Ali easily. Ali would throw down quick combinations and be out of there before Tyson could get set to throw. He would disrupt Tyson's rythym throughout the fight while talking shit to him. Ali dances and pounds Tyson for an easy decision or late stoppage.

realistically i would think that tyson couldnt give ali much that the boxers of ali's era tested him with. for example, tysons main stratergy was to go into a fight and destroy his opponents, i dont think that this would trouble ali to much.

if tyson could get a clean hit on ali then obviously there would be problems but i dont see tyson getting that clean hit


a better match up in my opinion......... prime frazier vs prime tyson

Ali would be 2 quick for Tyson and would frustrate him and wear him out. KO in the later rounds.

Ali would make Mike look so bad that he would freak out and pull some crazy shit and get Disqualified.

Ali would have messed up Tyson's head before they even got into the ring.

holmes the most underrated figther ever was better then ali...his jab faster and stronger held the title for 8 years with out loosing ...tyson said if he would of fought holmes in the early 80s he would of killed tyson

its true ali couldn't take that much of a punch

what are you talking about? I hope I am misreading something here, and in this case apologize

Ali got caught in the 70s by a shitload of punches on the body, on the head and even on his chin

in the 70s he wasn't dancing anymore, cos he couldn't keep it up for 15 rounds like he did earlier on.

still he fought the hardest punchers of his era frazier (3 times), foreman, lyle, shavers and was knocked down 2 times in 10 years (frazier and wepner).

by the way no one thought he wuld get up so fast after the frazier knock down: still, he was up pretty fast

he also fought liston in the 60s. Even if he could dance by the time, if you look at the first fight he does get hit sometimes in round 4 and 5, and doeesn't show any sign of dizzyness.

he had his jaw broken by ken norton, and made it to the end of the fight

the only time he got stopped was when 38, and already showing signs of parkinson's and it was his corner who had to throw the towel, cos he was still standing.

if this is not being able to "take that much of a punch", who has a chin?

anyway I take ali by late stoppage after embarassing tyson all through the fight.
or he might get it by DQ, frustration is a very good point,sonny

It’s hands down Ali. Ali is a concrete definition of boxing as a sweet science. And until now I haven’t seen anybody in the division who has the skills that can be considered at least at par with him.

Tyson in his prime is leaning more on his psychological game plan to defeat his opponents and he backs it up with his power and his determination inside the ring. His opponents are all so intimidated that they climb the ring thinking merely of how to survive his onslaught and not to defeat the guy. All his opponents go in there backing up and covering instead of punching. Buster Douglas’ victory in ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:country-region w:st=<ST1:place w:st="on">Japan</ST1:place></st1:country-region> was clearly an eye opener for the rest of the heavy weights for it gave away the strategy of how to deal with the guy. And it’s not so hard for Holyfield’s team to decipher that thus Holyfield defeated him.

As for Ali, Tyson’s INTIMIDATION PLOY won’t ever work against him because Ali will never be intimidated by anybody. Tyson will be systematically be broken down. He has brain and the skills to back it up. He has the foot speed, hands speed and an arsenal of different punches to do what ever he wants inside that ring.

A prime Ali against a prime Tyson ? Ali will make a mess out of Tyson’s face while the latter is chasing Ali around the four corners of that ring. Tyson’s fighting skills is simply not enough for him to outwit the Greatest Boxer of all time, at least until the present. :cool:

what are you talking about? I hope I am misreading something here, and in this case apologize

Ali got caught in the 70s by a shitload of punches on the body, on the head and even on his chin

in the 70s he wasn't dancing anymore, cos he couldn't keep it up for 15 rounds like he did earlier on.

still he fought the hardest punchers of his era frazier (3 times), foreman, lyle, shavers and was knocked down 2 times in 10 years (frazier and wepner).

by the way no one thought he wuld get up so fast after the frazier knock down: still, he was up pretty fast

he also fought liston in the 60s. Even if he could dance by the time, if you look at the first fight he does get hit sometimes in round 4 and 5, and doeesn't show any sign of dizzyness.

he had his jaw broken by ken norton, and made it to the end of the fight

the only time he got stopped was when 38, and already showing signs of parkinson's and it was his corner who had to throw the towel, cos he was still standing.

if this is not being able to "take that much of a punch", who has a chin?

anyway I take ali by late stoppage after embarassing tyson all through the fight.
or he might get it by DQ, frustration is a very good point,sonny

You took the words out of my mouth pal. Ali definitely can take a punch (see my sig;))...he was KD'd by real heavy hitters like Joe Frazier and Ken Norton alright but that's beside the point, anyone gets hit with a heavyweight punch flush on the chin will go down. Big George and Ernie Shavers were certified knockout artists as well, but he withstood all of their heavy broadsides. Ali I reckon would take advantage of his height and reach advantage to the hilt and dance around Mike Tyson, boxing him silly all night...and if he could catch Tyson with his "shoe shining" combinations or with his counters even while backing up - good night MT.

BTW, I don't think Mike Tyson punches a lot harder than Big George, Smokin' Joe or Ernie Shavers.

Ali by late rounds TKO.

a prime Tyson (80's) vs. a prime Ali ( 60's), no question it's Ali, Tyson wouldn't be able to hit him. Tyson is most effective if you stand in front of him and take it, and be afraid of him. A prime Ali
would do neither, he'd dance and pop Tyson in the face with his jab until iron mike got discouraged, which wouldn't take long because Tyson has no heart

I honestly believe that Tyson would beat Ali, I think Tyson's superb head movement would keep him out the way of Ali's Jab.

Tyson - KO 5th

He just sat there like a sack of sand.

you guys need to break out some film of tyson in his prime, quick feet lightning fast hands and lots of head movement,tyson by tko in 10, the ref would have to stop it cause ali wouldnt quit. remember young tyson could go the distance if he had to, im talking 1986-1990

a prime Tyson (80's) vs. a prime Ali ( 60's), no question it's Ali, Tyson wouldn't be able to hit him. Tyson is most effective if you stand in front of him and take it, and be afraid of him. A prime Ali
would do neither, he'd dance and pop Tyson in the face with his jab until iron mike got discouraged, which wouldn't take long because Tyson has no heart

I'd pick Tyson by KO, A prime Tyson was feared for a very good reason.

Jack Dempsey would be Tyson's hardest fight, i think Tyson would fear his idol.

holmes the most underrated figther ever was better then ali...his jab faster and stronger held the title for 8 years with out loosing ...tyson said if he would of fought holmes in the early 80s he would of killed tyson

You'r entitled to you opinion, but you're wrong.

unfortunatly for us all, we will never really know

Whoever said that tyson in his prime would beat ali (in his prime as well) is joking! Oh wait, are we talking about both fighters in their prime? If we are then i will continue by saying that whoever thought that tyson could beat ali is kidding and i am suggesting they should watch old tapes of ali during his prime!

Ali in his younger years as a boxer is very quick and very strong in his punches and plus he's so quick with his feet, too! How can Tyson ever beat that? Are you saying that Tyson is a lot better and a lot stronger than Frazier, Norton, or Foreman?

Does anyone remember that Ali in his prime did fight someone exactly
like Mike Tyson, and beat him. Liston was a big puncher, a feared fighter ( for good reason, i saw what he did to Eddie Machen and Floyd Patterson ). A prime Ali against a prime Tyson would likely be very similar, as Tyson had the same strengths and weaknesses as Sonny Liston

Are you saying that Tyson is a lot better and a lot stronger than Frazier, Norton, or Foreman?

I'd put money on Tyson to kick all their asses

I have not enough doubts in victory Ali. He of 100 % the best heavyweight in a history.

I'd put money on Tyson to kick all their asses


Then that's a lost investment :D

I would put money on a prime Tyson beating Frazier, and definately Norton.

Ali has defeated great punchers of his era....I don't think Tyson would be any different.

As I have posted earlier Ali is a concrete example of boxing being a sweet science not merely of brute force. He can be a boxer, a counter puncher, a slugger, a brawler . . . a complete fighter that haven't been imitated or coppied by anybody up to this modern time. Ali is always a different fighter inside the ring defending on who the opponent and what ever the opponents have to bring inside the ring.

Tyson? Only one fighting style . . . attack! . . . attack! . . . attack! :D . . . and it won't be that hard for Ali to tire him out while compilling points until the 8th to 10th round before giving him the finishing touches. If a Holyfield was able to figure out Tyson how much more with Ali? can you compare Holyfields capabilities and skills to ALI? ;)

No its about styles with ALi and Tyson.Just liked Joe knocked Alie out in their first fight.Tyson would do the same ,only a lot quicker,because of the footwork,and speed.

No its about styles with ALi and Tyson.Just liked Joe knocked Alie out in their first fight.Tyson would do the same ,only a lot quicker,because of the footwork,and speed.


Bro don't get lost we are talking of a prime Ali . . . Ali was in his worst shape when Frazier K.O.ed him on their first fight. Did you see what happened to Frazier in their rematch? :D

I would put money on a prime Tyson beating Frazier, and definately Norton.


I'm with you on prime Tyson beating prime Norton but against Frazier I still see that as a 50/50 fight . . . remember that Tyson is having problem with opponents who doesn't back up :D . . . . now when did you see FRAZIER back up. That fight will end up either as a total brawl or a damn fluke holding and pushing match.

I posted this in the other forum, but realized it should porbably go here...

I used to think this was a slam dunk (i.e. for Ali over Tyson) but now I'm not so sure. After re-watching Tyson bitch slap and literally torture Terrell Biggs to tears, it made me wonder. For those of you who don't remember, Biggs was about as close to Ali in terms of style and skills as anyone ever was...

This fight would be a great matchup of styles like Joe Frasier

and Ali. The fight would go like this: Tyson would start fast and

stun Ali in the early rounds. After weathering Tyson's early

assault Ali would adabt and either start dancing around the ring

peppering tyson with his strong jab and precise combinations or

Ali would rope a dope and hold tyson tiring him out. In any case

tyson's face would be swolen up in the later rounds and would

succomb to a late round knockout.( round 12 or 13)What would be

interesting about this fight is how Ali withstands Tyson's

explosive punching power. I have Ali knocking tyson out in round

thirteen in a flurry of sharp punches.

i dont see this fight going past the 3rd round, everybody keeps talking about what ali did to george foremen, dont forget a prime tyson could go 12 rounds throwing power punches.

Tyson by tko 1.

ali would make tyson look like a clown with his footwork and dazzling punches

frazier is a smaller and less te*****aly sound tyson.

frazier beat ali , tyson has the same style but he does everything better.

tyson wins by KO mid rounds.

Ali was a master of messing with his opponents minds before the fight day-Tyson would be messed up more than he already is if Ali fought him.-Ali by mid round KO.

ali would make tyson look like a clown with his footwork and dazzling punches


Absolutely :D . . . . Tyson will be frustrated being hit by Ali's jarring jabs while chasing him around the ring and once he gets close enough his hands are going to be tied up . . . Ali is not only Skill . . . he's got brain . . . a master tactician :cool:

i hate to break it too you tyson fans but tyson would get slaughtered, not only slaughtered, hed look like a fool. he's big and strong but too stupid to use tatics and thats what would win this fight, tysons all about power punches, whcih we know are slower than jabs and ali would see it a mile away. ali's too skilled for tyson

Ali would mess Tyson up in his mind and take a UD.

No, he wouldn't.

ali would beat him if he got in to his head

To be honest I am actually shocked that this topic has this many people on different sides. And the things I have read have been fabulous. Terrell Biggs compared to Ali? Kinda like comparing an eagle to a pigeon cause they both have wings. Ali would beat Tyson in the ring, out of the ring, on tv, on the radio, and anywhere else you want to compare them. Tyson has never been real stable mentally and emotionally to begin with. And he always beats the people he can pusharound and intimidate. Well this is Ali. And Ali did not get intimidated by anyone. Tyson attacks. Ali steps aside and jabs. Wash, rinse, and repeat. Would get ugly actually.

Tyson is no different than sonny liston and young george foreman...Ali would had boxed circles around tyson and then knocked him out in theb later rounds...

Tyson is no different than sonny liston and young george foreman...Ali would had boxed circles around tyson and then knocked him out in theb later rounds...

Actually, Tyson IS different from both Liston and Foreman, in that he is not on their level in my opinion. Ali would school Tyson, tear him up, break him down and knock him out. Tyson would have no chance in hell.

A LOT of people like to say that Ali would beat Tyson with absolutely no problem. Saying that the legends of the past might lose to the boxers today is almost blasphemy. Personally, I can't pick a clear-cut winner. Ali floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee. But Ali was stung in his career too. Heck, Norton broke his jaw. You also have to remember that Tyson, in his prime (before '91), was a MUCH better boxer than he is now. He moved side to side, jumped in and out, had good head movement, and was pretty fast, himself. Now... his boxing skills aren't even worth mentioning! There was a time when I would've NEVER betted that Tyson would lose. Now the opposite is true. A Tyson/Ali fight (with both guys in their prime), would've been awesome. And probably not as easy to call as some say.

A side note;

The same thing was said about a Tyson/Holyfield fight back in the late 80's and early 90's. How Holyfield was going to outbox Tyson, and all that stuff. Please! Had Tyson and Holyfield fought BACK THEN, Holyfield would've been slaughtered.

I know, I know. Holyfield isn't Ali.

What makes you so sure Tyson would have beaten Holyfield? He got his ass kicked by an older, slower version so how would he hope to dominate a prime Holyfield?

Welcome to the forum by the way.

I think Tyson in 1988 or 1989 has a good chance against Ali. Tyson is not really that similar at to the other big punchers Ali faced like Lyle,Shavers,Frazier,Foreman, Tyson is way faster than any of them. pound for pound Tyson probably has just as fast of hands as ali does and his defence his good, he bobs and weaves, so that would make it hard for Ali to keep him off with the jab. Ali would have to be extremely cautious against Tyson and dance around on the perimter and try to land jabs for 15 rounds. I think more likely Tyson would be able to land his power and combos because of his vicious speed and stop ali maybe even in the early rounds. Ali is fast, Tyson might even be faster, and he hits alot harder. Tyson KO 7

Ali would tear Tyson's eyes out and skull fuk him!!!

Ali would tear Tyson's eyes out and skull fuk him!!!



You are talking prime Ali from the 60's, prime Ali's gaunt physiche would crumble beneath Mike Tyson's accurate devestating power punches to the body which I guarateen he would land no matter how much ali danced Mike would work his way inside with excellent head and foot movement tea off on that gaunt body and start with the upercut. Ali's punches when he was skinny in the 60's would not be enough to keep tyson from planting his feet and unleashing the devaestating power and combo's. Ali hit too soft and was to much of a defensive fighter to battle Tyson from 1988 1989.

Ali had a rock hard body and was rarely hurt by bodyshots. I remember in the first Chuvalo fight where Ali had his hands up and just let George smash him in the stomach over and over. I think he hit Ali in the midsection with ten or more repeated shots and Ali just shook his head and egged him on. Ali was very, very strong and built like a 6'3" wide shouldered Bruce Lee. He would take Tyson's punches fine.

http://www.10ktruth.com/images/ali0001.jpg

Thats true, Foreman did hit just as hard as Tyson and Ali just smiled at him. Would Tyson have the speed to sneak a hook to Ali's head early? Thats the question here

Probably, but Ali's chin was insanely powerful, it may phase Ali eventually, but the first round the pace would be set immediately for Ali

Ali would annihilate Tyson, Foreman hit HARDER than Tyson, not by alot, but still hit harder...

You are talking prime Ali from the 60's, prime Ali's gaunt physiche would crumble beneath Mike Tyson's accurate devestating power punches to the body which I guarateen he would land no matter how much ali danced Mike would work his way inside with excellent head and foot movement tea off on that gaunt body and start with the upercut. Ali's punches when he was skinny in the 60's would not be enough to keep tyson from planting his feet and unleashing the devaestating power and combo's. Ali hit too soft and was to much of a defensive fighter to battle Tyson from 1988 1989.


1) ali body did not crumble from liston punches... in 1964

2) foreman - ali ali weighs in at 216
frazier-ali I weighs in at 212
ali-frazier II weighs in at 215

last 3 fights before the forced reitrement:

211+
212+
212+

wow those 2-4 pounds musta been iron...

no punching power? look at his record from 64 to 67! (the punch that takes you out is the one you don't see...)

ANYWAY,

this is ridiculous tyson is a coulda been great that crumbled every time he fought great opposition, whose prime lasted like 2hours, ali beat great opposition while PAST his prime.

Ali had the perfect tools to beat tyson: a superb jab and a great right (straight punches), an all time great chin, and the strength to move him around the ring and tie him.

throw in the mix the mind games ali would play with tyson fragile psyche, and i don't see how ppl can think tyson would knock him out

1) ali body did not crumble from liston punches... in 1964

2) foreman - ali ali weighs in at 216
frazier-ali I weighs in at 212
ali-frazier II weighs in at 215

last 3 fights before the forced reitrement:

211+
212+
212+

wow those 2-4 pounds musta been iron...

no punching power? look at his record from 64 to 67! (the punch that takes you out is the one you don't see...)

ANYWAY,

this is ridiculous tyson is a coulda been great that crumbled every time he fought great opposition, whose prime lasted like 2hours, ali beat great opposition while PAST his prime.

Ali had the perfect tools to beat tyson: a superb jab and a great right (straight punches), an all time great chin, and the strength to move him around the ring and tie him.

throw in the mix the mind games ali would play with tyson fragile psyche, and i don't see how ppl can think tyson would knock him out

When was Ali's prime? no doubt the fight that made his career was the win over foreman that was in 1974, so you should say 1974 was his prime. His win over Liston is overrated because Liston was all f***ed up when they fought and took a dive in one of the fights. . If Muhammad Ali never beat Foreman he would be regarded so much lower. He lost to Leon Spinks in Spinks's 8th professional fight 5 months after Ali won a UD over Shavers. He lost to Ken Norton in 1971, got his jaw broken in that fight. And Ken Norton was a nobody before he fought Ali, the guy he fought before fighting ALi was 22-8 and so were all the opponents Norton had fought up to that point. His only notable win besides beating ALi was stopping Jerry Quarrey.

Beating Foreman is what made ALI be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the right game plan and style to beat Foreman.

Foreman made Norton and Frazier and Lyle look like nothing while 2 of those guys beat Ali in his prime. Foreman knocked Norton out in 2. Knocked Frazier down 5 times etc....
Ali basically got lucky against Foreman, if they ever rematched Foreman would have beaten his ass. Ali's mind games got to him and fighting in Africa was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Georges psyche up.

Foreman KO'd Ron Lyle in 5 while Ali was loosing his fight against Lyle until Ali got a gift premature stoppage, the ref stopped the fight just because Ali flurried basically it was one of the worst stoppages I have ever seen, if the ref was honest Lyle would have went on to beat Ali. The win over Lyle is one Ali's biggest wins, and he did not deserve to win that fight. And of course look how much Ali struggled with Frazier but Foreman obliterated him.


George Foreman is better than Ali, George Foreman made Ali, George Foreman is the real greatest of the 70's. George Foreman is the man who made the man who you proclaim falsely as being the man in boxing.

http://biografieonline.it/img/bio/g/George_Foreman.jpg

http://www.forbesbookclub.com/bookimages/ingram/074/320/0743200934.gif

McKay,

ok, first I find it interesting that you have to change the subject from tyson to foreman, which makes me think you have no relevant answers to my objections

anyway...

-Ali's prime is around 74

NO

ali's prime was 64-67

this is a FACT:
he was faster and with better stamina than in the 70s and bigger than when he was 18-22

the fact that he won snd defended the title afterwards just does not change this, it just shows how great he was, even past his physical prime

sonny liston was all "f***ed up" and big george freaked out cos the fight was held in africa... So everytime ali beats someone it's because the someone is in deep psychological trouble...
either you just ali for some reason I don't know
or if you really think it's the case..
well I got news for you, brains matter in boxing, and note that I don't like leonard playing the bitch with hagler or jones circling around opponents and pot shotting them (but this is a way to win, too), but ali never bitched out of a fight at the negotiation table or fought like a bitch in the ring.

after the 3rd frazier fight he was done
he lost to spinks when he was 36.
and still managed to win back his title

-foreman is greater than ali... and ali just got lucky...

NO

even foreman rates ali above himself among all time HW greats and so do every boxing historian and most fans, except ppl like you who think tyson would ko ali.

all your comparing opposition arguments don't do much: ever heard of the saying "styles make fights", well maybe you did not know that frazier and even moreso norton were built up by futch to beat ali, and on the other hand of the spectrum cus d'amato used to show frazier-foreman to tyson, to show him the wrongest possible style to attack someone like foreman.

you also bring up the Lyle fights, I am not sure it's a grat idea:
foreman was knocked down twice and made the same mistake he made with ali: he punched too much, too soon. Only he was fighting a dumb slugger like him, who did not have ali's chin and witsand KOed him.
so what is that make you so sure that this was not to happen again in a rematch with ali?

as far as ali-lyle goes, (bs stoppage or not, haven't seen the fight in 3 years but it did not seem a bs stoppage at the time, but I will concede that my memory may fail) ali usually won most of the championship rounds ("ali's alley", not for nothing)


-foreman made ali what he is...

NO

he started calling himself the greatest after he beat sonny liston but who cares about what he called himself:
he was always the draw (and a legend because since the liston fights, winning against foreman gave him his second wave of glory), the marciano-ali computerized fights, all the who's better louis or ali barroom chat was older crap than the foreman fight, which just goes to show

This is like the NBA in 1950, those guys sucked. World records get broken every day, thats not luck kids, thats just better training.

With this futuristic dieting and training even i could have a good fist at ali. Steven Boomayay

This is like the NBA in 1950, those guys sucked. World records get broken every day, thats not luck kids, thats just better training.

With this futuristic dieting and training even i could have a good fist at ali. Steven Boomayay


Yes......high-tech training is all the rage in boxing, isn't it ? Yeah, right.

Look at Hopkins.....is he doing anything high-tech ? Not at all.

You don't know what you're talking about.

He lost to Ken Norton in 1971, got his jaw broken in that fight. And Ken Norton was a nobody before he fought Ali, the guy he fought before fighting ALi was 22-8 and so were all the opponents Norton had fought up to that point. His only notable win besides beating ALi was stopping Jerry Quarrey.

Foreman lost to Jimmy Young in 1977 and was KD during this fiht. And Jimmy Young was a nobody before and after he fought Foreman, the guy he fought before fighting Foreman was 13-7 (except Ali - lost by UD, and Lyle) and so were all the opponents Young had fought up to that point. His only notable win before and after beating Foreman was win over Ron Lyle.

Ali basically got lucky against Foreman, if they ever rematched Foreman would have beaten his ass. Ali's mind games got to him and fighting in Africa was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Georges psyche up.

Foreman basically got lucky against Lyle, if they ever rematched Ron would have beaten his ass. Foreman down twice in 4th. Foreman's mind games got to him and fighting in Puerto Rico was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Rones psyche up.


Beating Foreman is what made ALI be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the right game plan and style to beat Foreman.

Beating from Ali has allowed to tell Foreman later (interview before his fight vs Moorer): "I think he would beat me again in second fight and third". But it is not necessary to listen this - Forman was for certain strongly drunk, when spoke it. Fights with Frazier is made Foreman be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the hard right hand and nice jaw to beat Frazier. Outside of any doubts Foreman the best heavyweight not only 70 but of all time (sure - P4P) and he is MUCH better than Ali. No questions about it.

I think Ali would win, Tyson is kinda like Frazier.

Foreman lost to Jimmy Young in 1977 and was KD during this fiht. And Jimmy Young was a nobody before and after he fought Foreman, the guy he fought before fighting Foreman was 13-7 (except Ali - lost by UD, and Lyle) and so were all the opponents Young had fought up to that point. His only notable win before and after beating Foreman was win over Ron Lyle.


Foreman basically got lucky against Lyle, if they ever rematched Ron would have beaten his ass. Foreman down twice in 4th. Foreman's mind games got to him and fighting in Puerto Rico was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Rones psyche up.


Beating from Ali has allowed to tell Foreman later (interview before his fight vs Moorer): "I think he would beat me again in second fight and third". But it is not necessary to listen this - Forman was for certain strongly drunk, when spoke it. Fights with Frazier is made Foreman be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the hard right hand and nice jaw to beat Frazier. Outside of any doubts Foreman the best heavyweight not only 70 but of all time (sure - P4P) and he is MUCH better than Ali. No questions about it.

Your attempt to parrot my solid arguments is pathetic, however mildly entertaining.

Of course, this is all guesswork but I think a strong, fast afoot and hand fighter like Ali with great stamina would easily outbox and fight off Tyson. He'd push and pull him as he did every guy who managed to close with him when he slowed later in his career and ring general him to death. Ali, by 4 or 5 points over 15 rds, if he didn't finish him in a barrage of punches.

This is Ali before his long break.

I think Ali would win, Tyson is kinda like Frazier.
Both had great power, but Tyson had more head movement and alot more speed in both hands.

When was Ali's prime? no doubt the fight that made his career was the win over foreman that was in 1974, so you should say 1974 was his prime. His win over Liston is overrated because Liston was all f***ed up when they fought and took a dive in one of the fights. . If Muhammad Ali never beat Foreman he would be regarded so much lower. He lost to Leon Spinks in Spinks's 8th professional fight 5 months after Ali won a UD over Shavers. He lost to Ken Norton in 1971, got his jaw broken in that fight. And Ken Norton was a nobody before he fought Ali, the guy he fought before fighting ALi was 22-8 and so were all the opponents Norton had fought up to that point. His only notable win besides beating ALi was stopping Jerry Quarrey.

Beating Foreman is what made ALI be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the right game plan and style to beat Foreman.

Foreman made Norton and Frazier and Lyle look like nothing while 2 of those guys beat Ali in his prime. Foreman knocked Norton out in 2. Knocked Frazier down 5 times etc....
Ali basically got lucky against Foreman, if they ever rematched Foreman would have beaten his ass. Ali's mind games got to him and fighting in Africa was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Georges psyche up.

Foreman KO'd Ron Lyle in 5 while Ali was loosing his fight against Lyle until Ali got a gift premature stoppage, the ref stopped the fight just because Ali flurried basically it was one of the worst stoppages I have ever seen, if the ref was honest Lyle would have went on to beat Ali. The win over Lyle is one Ali's biggest wins, and he did not deserve to win that fight. And of course look how much Ali struggled with Frazier but Foreman obliterated him.


George Foreman is better than Ali, George Foreman made Ali, George Foreman is the real greatest of the 70's. George Foreman is the man who made the man who you proclaim falsely as being the man in boxing.

http://biografieonline.it/img/bio/g/George_Foreman.jpg

http://www.forbesbookclub.com/bookimages/ingram/074/320/0743200934.gif

You know damn well 74 was far from Ali's prime, LOMFL. The Foreman fight was resounding because of Ali's return from his exile and Foreman's domination up to that point.

Physically, Ali was god-like BEFORE he was stripped.

Your attempt to parrot my solid arguments is pathetic, however mildly entertaining.
:D You very much love yourself, as I see.

Your attempt to answer for my solid arguments even not is pathetic or actual, but entertaining twice.

Another pathetic argument

i think tyson would win, tyson is a beast who is similar but better than frazier in some ways and frazier came very close so i think tyson would do it

mike will kill ali

mike will kill ali


You think ? Ooh, wait.....you obviously aren't thinking......

mike will kill ali
Only with AK-47.

Ali would dance around to much for Mike to shoot him XD

Do you guys consider Ali the best boxer of all time? I do!

Ali would eat Tyson for lunch. Tyson's head movement would be completely nulluified by Ali's quick flurries, (a la vs Frazier II and III) and his whole strategy would fall apart. Tyson doesn't stand a chance. And Tyson's weaknesses are far different from Liston's. Liston has more heart, a better chin and is an all around better boxer than Tyson and Ali made him look foolish. So, with Tyson's limited arsenal and even more limited patience and heart, how would he even be expected to last past the 5th round? Only in the mind of a Tyson fan. :rolleyes:

Ali TKO 5 or DQ 5

Ali would have messed up Tyson's head before they even got into the ring.

Exactly what I was thinking. :)

BWHAHAHA i cant believe this is up for debate....anyone who can take the massive amounts of punishment like ali can...can beat the shit out of tyson....tyson fights for a round and a half...then i could knock him out...cassius was the king of ring....if anyone ever thought or even thinks that tyson could have even been close to beating cassius they are mentally ill. FOR GOD SAKES JUST WEATHER the tyson storm and even people like say.....danny williams can knock that chump out....but as far as ali vs tyson...ali would eventually ko tyson 4th maybe 5th if tyson runs good...hahaha

There was only one man who could give Tyson a run for his money in both a verbal battle as well as a Boxing match, and that was Ali. Ali would take his time to KO Tyson just to make him look bad like he did with so many other opponents. I think that Ali had more skill in every aspect of boxing accept power and you saw what happened when Ali went against people with power just look at the Foreman fight for example. Use your heads people ALI KO in 8

This would have been an all-time great match-up.

However, a couple things a re troubling here. First of all, whomever one chooses to win is ignoring what the opponents "prime" was like.

I could see it playing out either way. Ali, prime from about 64-67, was tall skinny, and lack power like he did in his later career. He has outstanding footwork, but he had poor fundamentals. He was able to get away with it because of the quality of his opposition. He fought guys who were old, or slow. Patterson was fast, but he was very old, past his best days. Liston has hella power, but he was slow.

The prime Tyson, who was still a D'Amato disciple who trained with Kevin Rooney, is not easily intimidated. He might have had faster hands than Ali, surely in combinations. Ali had a wondeful, flickiing, lighning-fast jab...

Tyson was a bug puncher, but he was much different than Foreman, Shavers, or Frazier. He threw punches in combinations, from every angle. Ali has seen nothing like a prime Tyson, especially while he was in his prime. Think about it? Ali was not unhittable during his prime. He got dropped by Henry (185 lbs) Cooper during his prime. He would have likely lost that fight if Angelo Dundee had not ripped Ali's glove affording Ali time to recover.

If the Tyson of 1986-1988 trained hard, and had Rooney in his corner, fought Ali from 64-67, Tyson would stop him. Ali was better suited to fight someone like Tyson in his 70s career.

It would be power vs speed, and Ali totally destroys Tyson.

He got dropped by Henry (185 lbs) Cooper during his prime. He would have likely lost that fight if Angelo Dundee had not ripped Ali's glove affording Ali time to recover.


You know what pisses me off? When Ali haters immediatly point to this fight when against Ali. This was not in his prime, this was about 3 years before it. And no, Ali would not have lost. If I can remember correctly, Cooper had the most devastating cut I've ever seen. And streams of blood covered his face.

Iron Mike punches hard,
receive too many it is the grave yard.
He has destroyed every fighter around.
Who can beat him? Where is he found?

Tyson stands in the middle of the ring,
about his greatness he sings,
Then from the dark comes, 'He will never beat me!'
Who? Yes! it is Muhammad Ali.!

Ali jumps into the ring, with a thunderous roar,
saying: 'This is going to be a fight like never before!!!'
Tyson is too ugly to be king,
I'll kick his butt across this ring!'

The bell for round one sounds,
look at Ali dance around.
Pop...pop...pop, jabs to Tyson's face,
but can Ali keep up this pace?
Ali jabs like a piston,
and not a one is a missin'.
Ali jabs p-p-p-p-p, is all you hear,
in Tyson's eyes the look is fear!

Rounds three to seven, much of the same.
Ali is at the top of his game.
Then a right catches Ali flush,
and over the crowd comes a hush.
Ali staggers, is this the end?
If Tyson lands another, he will win!
Tyson can't hit Ali on the ropes,
Ali suckered him with rope-a-dope.

At the start of round nine,
Ali yells: 'Your behind is mine!'
Ali bounces off the ropes with a double-clutch shuffle,
a five punch combo, Tyson's knees buckle.
Ali punches so fast, Tyson head spins,
Then it is all over, as the towel is thrown in.

ALI...ALI...ALI!!! rings from the crowd,
Muhammad Ali, still the greatest around!
(ALI BY 9 ROUND TKO) :boxing:

I was watching some of tyson's early figths on espn classic on saturday and from what I seen, tyson has always got hit, he just had so much power that once he got an oppurtunity he was serving concussions with that left hook and right upper cut, but I believe muhammad ali would have beat tyson much like he beat floyd patterson, because they had relatively similiar stlyes...

I think Ali would force Tyson to do something stupid

Ali would have messed up Tyson's head before they even got into the ring.

Plus Ali had too much speed for Tyson and I dont think Tyson hits anywhere near hard has Foreman did so Ali would dance all over Tyson and hit with combos he never seen in his life

"(HITTIN CONGO DRUMS) THE CHAMP IS HERE"-ALI

wat the **** is wrong with u stupid imbosoles who believe ali wud beeat tyson, youse must be on cocaine u dumb ****s. youse think he can take 100,000 punches to the head and body, and youse bleieve he is fast as a bullet and is perfect, youse must be crazy u dumb ****s. eat dicks. hes a fighter who talked shit, i admit dat, he did nuthin special u dum asses, i dont know why the whole world sucks his dick, is it pity or stupidity.

Ali's era was slow a feeble Tysons Era is faster and stronger.
An upgrade of Ali's competition except Frazier, Liston, and Foreman.
Ali never fought smoe one would could match him blow for blo with great speed and defence not too mention sleeping power in a jab.

"**** Holifield"

your krazay Tyson wouldnt be overwhelmed by such a light fighter
Tyson punched harder than forman. and had sharper punches than Ali.

In tysons prime you couldnt stick and move or stand infront of him he was just too much.19-0 on stick and move and whatever else you through at him .




"**** Holifield"

Tyson would KO Ali within
4 to 5 rounds like he did larry
holmes.

Ali by late round stoppage or unanimous decision.

Tyson would KO Ali within
4 to 5 rounds like he did larry
holmes.
Tyson vs. Ali would first of all be to big a fight for HBO or Showtime we would need some other classics to be the undercard like Hopkins vs. Jones now.Or SRLvs.Duran 3/ Foreman vs Holmes in thier prime. I think Tyson has the best chance of any heavyweight in their prime of not only beating Ali but KOing him too,

TYsoN Split in 15th, gets up after 2 knockdowns Ali falls Twice also.
(he fell in the 15th and was saved by the bell.)

your krazay Tyson wouldnt be overwhelmed by such a light fighter
Tyson punched harder than forman. and had sharper punches than Ali.

In tysons prime you couldnt stick and move or stand infront of him he was just too much.19-0 on stick and move and whatever else you through at him .




"**** Holifield"

Foreman hits quite the bit harder than Tyson does, actually alot harder...His punches weren't as sharp as Ali's either!

You know what the funny thing is? Ali fought all of the better people he fought when he was out of his prime.

Tyson fought all of the good people out of his prime, but they destroyed him. Ali beat all the good people out of his prime.

wat the **** is wrong with u stupid imbosoles who believe ali wud beeat tyson, youse must be on cocaine u dumb ****s. youse think he can take 100,000 punches to the head and body, and youse bleieve he is fast as a bullet and is perfect, youse must be crazy u dumb ****s. eat dicks. hes a fighter who talked shit, i admit dat, he did nuthin special u dum asses, i dont know why the whole world sucks his dick, is it pity or stupidity.
what is pitiful is your retarded post, tyson's power bailed him out all those years, he was just young and cock strong knocking out old ass men, but he was getting hit a lot back in the day, ali would have ****ed tyson up plain and simple, liston was tyson like and he couldn't do it, and foreman had knocked everybody out before he got knocked out by ali, I can see from you're avatar you are a dillusioned tyson fan, you probably still think he could be champ again...

tyson to me is essentially joe frazier's frame with the power (maybe more power) of george foreman. which is scary. now prime against prime is another thing. frazier certainly never faced ali in his prime so you can't write off ali and say tyson would kill him (but ali 1970 and on, yes a prime tyson would certainly beat). i think when it comes down to it, ali has the reach and his speed is high enough to stay away (but i don't think anyone could call tyson slow by any measure). i think ali would beat tyson 3 out of 5 times. but both boxers had the neccesary skills and physical assets to best the other in their prime years.

Ali in his prime wasnt strong enough to KO Tyson in Tyson's prime.
Tyson was the anti-Ali back in his prime the advil to the ali headache. Of all the great fighters Ali fought none was as explosive as Tyson was in his prime.

Ali in his prime wasnt strong enough to KO Tyson in Tyson's prime.
Tyson was the anti-Ali back in his prime the advil to the ali headache. Of all the great fighters Ali fought none was as explosive as Tyson was in his prime.

Well let's see here. He fought Liston, who could hit just as hard as Tyson, maybe even harder. He fought Cleveland Williams, he had one of the highest KO percentages of all-time and considered one of the greatest to never hold the title.

Out of his prime he fought Joe Frazier, who was just like Tyson but with more attack, heart, and chin. Tyson's and Frazier's power were nearly equal (I'd rather get hit by one of Tyson's uppercuts than one of Joe's left hooks to the body or head). He once hit Chuvalo so hard that it tore his eye out of it's socket. Unlike Tyson, Joe kept coming no matter what, wheter he was tired or not.

He also fought George Foreman out of his prime, he was easily the hardest-hitting champion of all-time. His power destroys Tyson's. Tyson never lifted anyone off of their feet from one punch. Tyson never knocked any fighter out within 2 rounds on the same level as Frazier or Norton. George had much more heart than Tyson as well. You don't belive me, watch the Lyle fight. He gets dropped, gets up and drops Lyle, who gets up and drops George again. Then George gets back up and KO's Lyle. Tyson was terrified of a 42 year-old Foreman. A much slower, weaker, and nicer Foreman.

So no, Ali would destroy Tyson in his prime during the 60's, and he would beat Tyson out of his prime in the 70's.

Well let's see here. He fought Liston, who could hit just as hard as Tyson, maybe even harder. He fought Cleveland Williams, he had one of the highest KO percentages of all-time and considered one of the greatest to never hold the title.

Out of his prime he fought Joe Frazier, who was just like Tyson but with more attack, heart, and chin. Tyson's and Frazier's power were nearly equal (I'd rather get hit by one of Tyson's uppercuts than one of Joe's left hooks to the body or head). He once hit Chuvalo so hard that it tore his eye out of it's socket. Unlike Tyson, Joe kept coming no matter what, wheter he was tired or not.

He also fought George Foreman out of his prime, he was easily the hardest-hitting champion of all-time. His power destroys Tyson's. Tyson never lifted anyone off of their feet from one punch. Tyson never knocked any fighter out within 2 rounds on the same level as Frazier or Norton. George had much more heart than Tyson as well. You don't belive me, watch the Lyle fight. He gets dropped, gets up and drops Lyle, who gets up and drops George again. Then George gets back up and KO's Lyle. Tyson was terrified of a 42 year-old Foreman. A much slower, weaker, and nicer Foreman.

So no, Ali would destroy Tyson in his prime during the 60's, and he would beat Tyson out of his prime in the 70's.
Ok dude, you are an idiot. There is no one in the history of boxing who can punch like Tyson did, no way in hell, Tyson's discipline and technique was just too good. If you've ever watched Ali fight, Ali did not defend the left hook that well. Tyson has a deadly left hook, and Tyson had some quick hands. May I tell you, Tyson can take a punch.

Dude, I think you're the ****ing idiot. Foreman lifted Frazier off of his feet. That's about 205 lbs. And you know what the scary thing is? He didn't even use his body!!! He only used his arm to throw that uppercut. But I'm guessing you've never even seen the fight.

Tyson always used his full body, and if he could hit as hard as Foreman, he would have thrown people into the ceiling. There's no way anyone in boxing history hits as hard as Foreman. He's the only person I can recall lifting a man clean off of his feet with one punch.

Sure, Ali didn't protect the left hook well, but he sure went 42 rounds with Joe, who's left hook is much more deadly than Tyson's.

So yes, if Ali can beat people like Frazier and Foreman when he isn't even in his prime, I'm sure he could beat Mike in his prime.

By the way, Ali also made Sonny Liston look like a fool. Liston hit harder than Tyson.

Of course, you probably don't know that, because the only 2 fights of Liston you have seen are the 2 fights against Ali.

You ****ing ******, boxing back in the day was a slugfest, today's boxing is now a freakin science. Nobody trained hard as Tyson dumb ****, who cares about Foreman and Frazier, Tyson was lifting people off the canvas almost every fight. Obviously you haven't taken the time to watch Tyson fight in the late 80s, you are an idiot. I've seen Foreman fight plenty of times, and yes he hits hard, but Tyson hits harder! His training and conditioning is unheard of, Tyson is too much for Ali to handle. Again, boxing back in the days was just a slugfest, todays boxing is now a science you ****ing ******.

Before you say anything ******, watch some of Tyson's fights in the late 80s. You will then see the light, you ****ing ******.

Oh trust me, I have seen every single fight of Tyson's career. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And to say Tyson hits harder than Foreman is to say that Kareem-Abdul Jabar was a better defender than Hakeem Olajuwon. No, Tyson never lifted anyone off the canvas, you just made that to cover up for your dumbass.

The only time Tyson could capitalize is within the first 4 rounds. Ali never went down for the count, went 8 rounds with Foreman, and 42 rounds with Frazier. I would think he could handle Tyson in the first few rounds before he started lighting Tyson up.

By the way, who has Tyson beat worth mentioning? Tyson has been knocked out more than any heavyweight champion.

Oh trust me, I have seen every single fight of Tyson's career. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And to say Tyson hits harder than Foreman is to say that Kareem-Abdul Jabar was a better defender than Hakeem Olajuwon. No, Tyson never lifted anyone off the canvas, you just made that to cover up for your dumbass.

The only time Tyson could capitalize is within the first 4 rounds. Ali never went down for the count, went 8 rounds with Foreman, and 42 rounds with Frazier. I would think he could handle Tyson in the first few rounds before he started lighting Tyson up.

By the way, who has Tyson beat worth mentioning? Tyson has been knocked out more than any heavyweight champion.

yeah ali would/could and or proberly mess tyson in his prime up with seriously injuries and win by ud. but to say foreman had more skills is just dumb. the way foreman punch him out aganst ali show how dumb he was. only thing he got better than tyson was his power and chin. frazier had similar left hooks or maybe little better than tyson and averge boxer. his lefthook is not like most people say. like he would ko if he land LOL!!! he got bigger heart. ali got better jab,chin and heart. sum up tyson got better skills,handspeed,headmovement and combinations over foreman,frazier and ali but they probably would win or ko all fighter tyson won over in his prime. but they would struggler more because of style and limit skills. tyson is a complete fighter in his prime. his chin is maybe not iron but he wouldnt got ko with 1 single lucky shot. so that front is safe. its his heart i questioning.

Would Ali beat Tyson.

Course he would. ;)

kapersky,

Finally someone who can argue without saying "******" or dumb shit like "Tyson would ****ing kill Ali!"

I wouldn't say Tyson had more handspeed than Ali. Watch his fight with Archie Moore. Those hands are like machine guns. I know Frazier would not KO anyone with one left hook, but it was very deadly and powerful.

No, Ali or Frazier or Foreman wouldn't KO Tyson in round 1, but they would win.

Well dude. There is one thing you need to know about tyson. Tyson is the fastest heavyweight with is hands ever ... his punshes have enaugh energy to knock fraizer, ali, liston and foreman all at once into the next week ... he had more agility than any of those boxers .. the differnese on foreman and other boxer was that foreman is a BIG guy .. that is why he lifted them up in his punshes...

but dont talk that smak about tyson .. he might not be smart .. but he is very clever in the ring .. he is a fast clever and a powerfull guy ..

And one thing about boxing you need to learn if boxer X won Boxer w and boxer W won boxer F .. does not mean that boxer X has to Win boxer f just b cus w won him and he won W ... it is about what style works at the right time at the right time .. we cant talk like this about these guys .... we just cant ..so stop talking smak that does not make a bridge over the canal.

Tyson at one time was once one of my favorite boxers. But some people just come out and destroy him.

No matter how BIG Foreman is, he only used his arm. It doesn't matter how big you are if you just lift someone off their feet with an arm punch.

And one thing about boxing you need to learn if boxer X won Boxer w and boxer W won boxer F .. does not mean that boxer X has to Win boxer f just b cus w won him and he won W ... it is about what style works at the right time at the right time .. we cant talk like this about these guys .... we just cant ..so stop talking smak that does not make a bridge over the canal.

Good quote there.

Tyson has foughtmore heavyweight champions.

TYSON: Holmes, Ruddock, Lewis, Holyfield, Douglas, Spinks

ALI: Frazier, Foreman, Spinks, Liston, Holmes, Patterson, Moore, Norton

Pick the guy who fought back: Green, Tucker, Smith, Holyfield, Lewis, Tillis, the 2 most recent bums. The result was always the same: The other guy either finished on his feet or Tyson finished on his ass. Getting knocked down has never been the issue where greatness is concerned, it's the getting up that enshrines a fighter as an all time great. Liston, Moore, Jones, Quarry, Bonevena, Foley, Ellis, Frazier x 3, Norton x 3, Shavers, Foreman, etc. In almost every case Ali was the guy who should have been beaten before the 1st bell rang and yet he found ways to win. Tyson ? Unless the opponent was already beaten @ the 1st bell, Tyson was exposed. A 1974 Ali would have trained as he did for Frazier in Manila. The end would have come in 6-7 rounds with Tyson throwing in the towel himself. By the way, can you imagine Tyson going on after having a 1971 era Frazier left hook crash off his chin?

Tyson has foughtmore heavyweight champions.

what you mean is beltholders, which is irrelevant

no!!!!!!!!!!Ali would frustrate him for a couple of rounds, and then his legs would get tired.Then when Mike got a hold of em, he would put his ass to the ground.

Pick the guy who fought back: Green, Tucker, Smith, Holyfield, Lewis, Tillis, the 2 most recent bums. The result was always the same: The other guy either finished on his feet or Tyson finished on his ass. Getting knocked down has never been the issue where greatness is concerned, it's the getting up that enshrines a fighter as an all time great. Liston, Moore, Jones, Quarry, Bonevena, Foley, Ellis, Frazier x 3, Norton x 3, Shavers, Foreman, etc. In almost every case Ali was the guy who should have been beaten before the 1st bell rang and yet he found ways to win. Tyson ? Unless the opponent was already beaten @ the 1st bell, Tyson was exposed. A 1974 Ali would have trained as he did for Frazier in Manila. The end would have come in 6-7 rounds with Tyson throwing in the towel himself. By the way, can you imagine Tyson going on after having a 1971 era Frazier left hook crash off his chin?

Not to mention at the end of the last round of a grueling fight where Ali had already taken somewhat of a beating. Not to mention that Ali was past his prime, as well.

If Tyson fought Ali, his only chance to capitalize was the first 5 rounds. If ALi could survive those early rounds, which I'mm 99% sure (seeing that he was always a strong starter) then Tyson would get the hell beaten out of him. Ali lasted 8 rounds with ****ing George Foreman pounding away at him. He also went 44 rounds with Joe Frazier. And you know what???? All 4 of these fights were AFTER HIS PRIME. Just think if Tyson fought a quicker, better trained, and more athletic Ali with more stamina.

Not to mention at the end of the last round of a grueling fight where Ali had already taken somewhat of a beating. Not to mention that Ali was past his prime, as well.

If Tyson fought Ali, his only chance to capitalize was the first 5 rounds. If ALi could survive those early rounds, which I'mm 99% sure (seeing that he was always a strong starter) then Tyson would get the hell beaten out of him. Ali lasted 8 rounds with ****ing George Foreman pounding away at him. He also went 44 rounds with Joe Frazier. And you know what???? All 4 of these fights were AFTER HIS PRIME. Just think if Tyson fought a quicker, better trained, and more athletic Ali with more stamina.
Tyson would have the ability to suprise Ali like Frazier did because it was a step up in competition and Tyson had the puching power like a foreman to finish ali in a hurry.

A second matchup would be like Ali-Frazier 2 except Tyson would be more pathetic than he was in the douglas fight.(because he failed to train.)

The trd fight would be similar to the Holifeild fight 2nd.
But Tyson would prevail because Ali's chin doesnt quite match-up to EH at that time. :blackeye:

I agree. I think Holmes was very under-rated and he would have squashed Liceon, I mean Tyson.

Pick the guy who fought back: Green, Tucker, Smith, Holyfield, Lewis, Tillis, the 2 most recent bums. The result was always the same: The other guy either finished on his feet or Tyson finished on his ass. Getting knocked down has never been the issue where greatness is concerned, it's the getting up that enshrines a fighter as an all time great. Liston, Moore, Jones, Quarry, Bonevena, Foley, Ellis, Frazier x 3, Norton x 3, Shavers, Foreman, etc. In almost every case Ali was the guy who should have been beaten before the 1st bell rang and yet he found ways to win. Tyson ? Unless the opponent was already beaten @ the 1st bell, Tyson was exposed. A 1974 Ali would have trained as he did for Frazier in Manila. The end would have come in 6-7 rounds with Tyson throwing in the towel himself. By the way, can you imagine Tyson going on after having a 1971 era Frazier left hook crash off his chin?
First of all Ali doesnt have the puching power in his prime to take out tyson. Tyson sure as hell would'nt quit I mean give the man credit he showed up to fight even when he knew he was going to be hurt unlike ,liston.
And still was entertaining.

Gemini, who are you trying to kid??? Ali didn't have the power to KO Tyson...Excuse me, did you never see his fight against 4man?

I said in the 80's that Tyson was a paper champ. All he fought was has beens and wannabes. Any real contender of any real caliber he had, like Holyfield, he lost.

Ali would have spanked Liceon so would Holmes or any other great.

Bassing you are correct. Gemini must in fact be Tyson (whom else would be unable to respond to the issues raised?). Several previous posts state that Ali was KO'd by Frazier-wrong, Frazier won the 1st fight by 15 round UD. Ali did in that fight what Tyson never did-He fought a 15 round brawl with a young undefeated Frazier, went down in the 15th round and get this "Gemini/Tyson"-FINISHED ON HIS FEET! Gemini & the rest of his sorry ilk (they disgrace boxing), refuse to address the following facts 1. Tyson beat of handpicked, frightened fighters 2. Inability to knock out any fighter who wasn't frightened 3. Comparing the likes of Biggs with Ali 4. Inability to win/avoid being KO'd (the guy never lost a fight on his feet!) when the going got tough 5. QUIT when it came time to go through hell to become great. These bums disgrace our sport by wasting their time insulting those who HAVE honored our sport with their blood, heart, courage and sometimes their lives (in some cases for pennies) while their "Hero" disgraced the sport, pissed on the title, squandered millions and QUIT time and again. Their ongoing support of Tyson can only be understood as an attempt to excuse their own wasted & probably pathetic lives. So boys, it's time to get a new "Hero"-Dennis Rodman perhaps?

Liston beat pattersonAli beat them both, Larry holmes beat Ali Tyson beat Holmes.


Where does that put Tyson?Ali?and the rest?

what is pitiful is your retarded post, tyson's power bailed him out all those years, he was just young and cock strong knocking out old ass men, but he was getting hit a lot back in the day, ali would have ****ed tyson up plain and simple, liston was tyson like and he couldn't do it, and foreman had knocked everybody out before he got knocked out by ali, I can see from you're avatar you are a dillusioned tyson fan, you probably still think he could be champ again...


liston was tyson like in the power department(which tyson was stronger) and the staredown and intemedation.tyson was alot more elusive meaning his defense he couldnt be touched in his prime i bet u cant name 5 times tyson was rocked between 85-88 and thats not hurt just rocked. and that speed surpasses liston by a mile, i admit liston used his jab for power and tyson used his to get in. but every1 and there mama knows tyson has a powerful ass jab ive seen him knock down two ppl with justa jab he just didnt use it for that purpose.and foreman was way i mean way to slow for ali. whats the use of power if u cant use it. but when u put it all together like tyson did then u got some trouble. ive seen people in there prime try to fight like the ali prime did but it didnt work cause the 80s fighters were faster. and plenty have tried to do it with tyson but it didnt work . what tyson had to do is get ali to the ropes(which he usually did on his own) and go to the body to break ali down. stop all that dancin and movin and when alis covering up from those bodyshots then the face is open. im not sayin tyson will k.o. him but i do believe he could beat him.tyson had angles he could punch u with either hand. alot of the time if u see his old tapes he's square when he fights!!!

liston was tyson like in the power department(which tyson was stronger) and the staredown and intemedation.tyson was alot more elusive meaning his defense he couldnt be touched in his prime i bet u cant name 5 times tyson was rocked between 85-88 and thats not hurt just rocked. and that speed surpasses liston by a mile, i admit liston used his jab for power and tyson used his to get in. but every1 and there mama knows tyson has a powerful ass jab ive seen him knock down two ppl with justa jab he just didnt use it for that purpose.and foreman was way i mean way to slow for ali. whats the use of power if u cant use it. but when u put it all together like tyson did then u got some trouble. ive seen people in there prime try to fight like the ali prime did but it didnt work cause the 80s fighters were faster. and plenty have tried to do it with tyson but it didnt work . what tyson had to do is get ali to the ropes(which he usually did on his own) and go to the body to break ali down. stop all that dancin and movin and when alis covering up from those bodyshots then the face is open. im not sayin tyson will k.o. him but i do believe he could beat him.tyson had angles he could punch u with either hand. alot of the time if u see his old tapes he's square when he fights!!!
What is it with you Tyson "butt puppets" & your inability to spell, put a sentence together, make an effective argument for your "hero"-You've got to be "Iron Mike" himself. I guess the concept of reviewing an "entire" career escapes you. You make the point that "power" is no good if you can't use it-true. But, it's also true that speed/defense such as early Tyson's looked more effective than it was because of the stiffs who were out on their feet before the 1st bell. The true test of greatness came calling & Tyson's chin/heart were less than club level. There are many truly great fighters to praise, Tyson ain't one of them-Never was, never will be-Sorry

Liston beat pattersonAli beat them both, Larry holmes beat Ali Tyson beat Holmes.


Where does that put Tyson?Ali?and the rest?

Ali beat an old, washed up Liston. Not to mention it was arguably one of his best performances in the ring.

Ali also beat an old, washed up Patterson.

Larry Holmes beat Ali ****ing 15 years after his prime. Ali was already showing some Parkinson's in him.

Tyson beat Holmes about 8 years after his prime.

You can't say that just because somebody beat someone else who was way after their prime means that that somebody could beat the people that the other person beat.

Every ****ing day you hear that Holmes beat the shit out of Ali, or that Ali destroyed Liston, even though they were old, washed-up, and way out of their prime. You never hear people giving Lewis credit for BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF Tyson. Any why is that? Because it was WAY AFTER HIS PRIME.

TYSON: Holmes, Ruddock, Lewis, Holyfield, Douglas, Spinks

ALI: Frazier, Foreman, Spinks, Liston, Holmes, Patterson, Moore, Norton


tucker,pinklon thomas,berbick,frank bruno,and bruce seldon all for tyson ;) get it right :mad:

What is it with you Tyson "butt puppets" & your inability to spell, put a sentence together, make an effective argument for your "hero"-You've got to be "Iron Mike" himself. I guess the concept of reviewing an "entire" career escapes you. You make the point that "power" is no good if you can't use it-true. But, it's also true that speed/defense such as early Tyson's looked more effective than it was because of the stiffs who were out on their feet before the 1st bell. The true test of greatness came calling & Tyson's chin/heart were less than club level. There are many truly great fighters to praise, Tyson ain't one of them-Never was, never will be-Sorry


and who the **** r u my english 4 teacher in high school go **** off. i can write how ever i want u understood didnt u stupid. and thats your opinion about tyson so what think i care. go tell someone else about your moaning and bitching. and by the way why dont u take your cramp pills for your period cause u bitchin ;)

i'm sorry, UD and K.O are 2 drastically different things mate, get your facts straight.

No its about styles with ALi and Tyson.Just liked Joe knocked Alie out in their first fight.Tyson would do the same ,only a lot quicker,because of the footwork,and speed.
last post with reference to this guy.

The way i see it is if Tony Tucker can survive with Tyson for 12 rounds, poorly emulating Ali's style than Ali can take it a stage further. Ali fought Foreman and Shavers, in my opinion 2 fighters with greater 1 punch K.O power than tyson. He chinned them. I can see Ali dancing around for a few rounds, popping the jab and those lightning rights, gradually wearing down Tyson's will and stamina. And then Ali pouring it on, perhaps getting stopped by the ref or on cuts. Can't really see Tyson getting KTFO, like unconcious, more due to exhaustion at hitting fresh air. He will always have a punchers chance of course, but when did that ever work for anyone else who faced ali? Nope, never sparked.

Who in the **** said the Joe knocked Ali out?

Ali never went down for the count, and was only stopped against Holmes in 1980, and that was because his trainers saw that he was getting ****ed up. A few months later, Parkinson's disease was found in him.

Once Tyson tires himself out in the early (first 5) rounds, it would be all Muhammad. And I'm 99% sure that Muhammad would make it through the first couple of rounds (seeing that he went 8 rounds with Foreman throwing all he had and 42 rounds with Joe Frazier).

tucker,pinklon thomas,berbick,frank bruno,and bruce seldon all for tyson ;) get it right :mad:
Simply because your're boring, uninformed & pathetic-don't blame me

Let's see-Like Tyson, ALI & Larry did in fact beat guys past there prime but I don't remember either quitting against a bum who never had a prime. I suppose I'm a fool for thinking there is a difference-sorry

:boxing: Let's see-Like Tyson, ALI & Larry did in fact beat guys past there prime but I don't remember either quitting against a bum who never had a prime. I suppose I'm a fool for thinking there is a difference-sorry
Try carrying a sport for nearly 3 decades :cool:

Ali beat an old, washed up Liston. Not to mention it was arguably one of his best performances in the ring.

Ali also beat an old, washed up Patterson.

Larry Holmes beat Ali ****ing 15 years after his prime. Ali was already showing some Parkinson's in him.

Tyson beat Holmes about 8 years after his prime.

You can't say that just because somebody beat someone else who was way after their prime means that that somebody could beat the people that the other person beat.

Every ****ing day you hear that Holmes beat the shit out of Ali, or that Ali destroyed Liston, even though they were old, washed-up, and way out of their prime. You never hear people giving Lewis credit for BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF Tyson. Any why is that? Because it was WAY AFTER HIS PRIME.
I'm just pointing out that both Ali and Tyson were able to conquer the leaders of the last generation. :boxing:

:boxing:
Try carrying a sport for nearly 3 decades :cool:
Are you implying Tyson has carried boxing for 3 decades? Yes, it is true that saps like you will pay & fill arenas to watch Tyson pound on a stiff or get KO'd by one but "carry the sport"! Please name the top 10 competion Tyson prevailed against since he was KO'd by Douglas. If anything he has been an insult to the sport. Corrales/Castillo 1 has been more of a credit to our sport that Tyson's entire career put together. Take away the "freak show" factor and what do you have? Perhaps 2-3 years of what could have been a good career-but carrying boxing? Please!

:boxing:
Try carrying a sport for nearly 3 decades :cool:

Well, Ali did, and he never quit to anyone like McBride.

Gemini get a grip on reality!!!! Holmes beat Ali; Tyson beat Holmes. How do yopu even compare that, dork? Holmes was in his prime when he beat Ali. He was too old when he fought Tyson. Hell, he was 276 and qualified for medicare!!

You can not even begin to make that distinction. My god!!! Holmes wouyld have destropyed Liceon in his prime. He was very elusive; Tyson would not have been able to land anything worthy. He was too powerful. Liceon fell to Holeyfield, come on. Holmes would have KOed him in 2.

Dude, Tyson isn't even close to carrying the sport for 3 decades. He would have to carry it for another 10 years for that. Anyway, he hasn't carried since he lost to Douglas. He carried the sport for about 5 years.

Ali carried the sport for nearly 15 years. Joe Louis carried the sport between 10 and 15 years. Joe Frazier carried the sport for just as long as Tyson. So did Liston.

ali let ppl hit him to tire them out. If he did that with tyson, he would get knocked out with tyson's power

ali let ppl hit him to tire them out. If he did that with tyson, he would get knocked out with tyson's power

BULL!!!!!!!! He stood up to 4mans power in 4man's prime and let 4man pound him and still KOed 4man. How would Tyson put him down when he could stand up to that???

I'd put money on Tyson to kick all their asses
money that you would lose on a misinformed and foolish bet.

:boxing: Gemini get a grip on reality!!!! Holmes beat Ali; Tyson beat Holmes. How do yopu even compare that, dork? Holmes was in his prime when he beat Ali. He was too old when he fought Tyson. Hell, he was 276 and qualified for medicare!!

You can not even begin to make that distinction. My god!!! Holmes wouyld have destropyed Liceon in his prime. He was very elusive; Tyson would not have been able to land anything worthy. He was too powerful. Liceon fell to Holeyfield, come on. Holmes would have KOed him in 2.
You get a grip I dont think its that serious besides I was going on the fact that Holmes said that he would beat Ali in his prime also.

Anyways the best holmes could do to Tyson in his prime was whAt Quick Tillis did.........................
......Stay Alive. :boxing:

Well, Ali did, and he never quit to anyone like McBride.
3 decaeds I think not Ali maybe 2.5 but Tyson could still do it for 1 more. Losing and fighting dirty as hell to knock out some bums and make some money.

Are you implying Tyson has carried boxing for 3 decades? Yes, it is true that saps like you will pay & fill arenas to watch Tyson pound on a stiff or get KO'd by one but "carry the sport"! Please name the top 10 competion Tyson prevailed against since he was KO'd by Douglas. If anything he has been an insult to the sport. Corrales/Castillo 1 has been more of a credit to our sport that Tyson's entire career put together. Take away the "freak show" factor and what do you have? Perhaps 2-3 years of what could have been a good career-but carrying boxing? Please!
No other fighter comes close period true boxing fans remember the awe and stillness of Tyson's mystique as he climbed his way to the top.
Even his conquerors didnt compare to his worst day.
True fans appreciate the dominance he had while climbing to the top and how he manages still even in his dimmest years to capture interest. When Tyson peaked hewas the greatest of all time he just didnt stay there that long yet he didnt fly off radar either. 1986 he started 2005-2006 he still is a threat(one punch) in the division and is trying to clean up his image.

Let's see-Like Tyson, ALI & Larry did in fact beat guys past there prime but I don't remember either quitting against a bum who never had a prime. I suppose I'm a fool for thinking there is a difference-sorry


the think about u is that your a tyson hater. tyson musta raped your mom or beat your dad up in the first round or something cause u starting to sound like beanard hopkins and BITCHIN!!!!!! and i cant believe we have a official english 4 teacher on here(watch out guys if u dont puncuate right he's going to go off on u)I didnt know we had to spell correctly for other ppl on there there OWN computer.

The thing that I remember about Tyson, is the look on his opponents face when they stepped in to the ring. Scared shitless. ALso, he "was" very hard to hit. His torso was always moving while he stalked. Tysons down fall was the fact that as Mitch Green said, "Tyson is a Sissy". To me this makes Tyson that much more impressive. For a chicken-hearted man to be so feared is quite an accomplishment. If Tyson had the heart of a lion, it would be Buster Who? and Holyfield would have been beat back into the Lightheavy wt division where he belonged. Tyson would have beat the hell out of Ali. Unlike Forman, Tyson had much more accurate punches. Rope a dope my ass, It would not have worked with Tyson. BTW, When Mitch Green called Tyson a sissy, his eye was beat shut from a single Tyson blow.

For all you Tyson "LOVERS"- How do you maintain a thought and "attempt" to type it out when you have you lips wraped around Tyson's balls? (perhaps because their Tyson's it's less than a mouthful). Oh & "Mysyal"-I didn't mean to (dis) your pride, who am I to see the sense in being understood by those of us who have to suffer through your feeble attempts at english. "ToiBoi"? The name says it all, I think I get the Tyson fasination. By the by-I don't remember that "scared shitless" look on any of the many guys (bums included) who KO'd your "hero". "Mitch Green"!, now there's a Hall of Famer-I think even you could have shut that eye!

ali let ppl hit him to tire them out. If he did that with tyson, he would get knocked out with tyson's power

Actually, Ali did that one time, and that was against Foreman. Who the hell said that Ali would use that strategy against Tyson. Even if he did, he survived Foreman beating him for 8 rounds, so why not Tyson?

what you are failing to consider is that tyson was trained to perfection by cus d'amato, who also trained floyd patterson, who was slower and weaker than ali and was getting over the flu in their first fight and an injury in their second. both times he gave ali something to think about but couldnt handle the distance. Tyson had more power in a jab going backwards, (which he never really used) than pattersons meanest hook, uppercut or cross. Tyson WAS quicker than patterson, ali, anyone. Tyson was the quickest heavyweight of significance ever, plus hes up there in the top 5 power punchers of all time. Ali was quick, but not quicker than iron mike. Plus mike was only ever knocked out once, against a hard hitting douglas over 10 rounds. All the other losses were just being ground down or quitting. Ali couldnt have done that to the pre-douglas tyson because he couldnt have hit him. Think about it, Joe frazier took 3 or 4 to the mush to give one and with that no defense style he beat ali in the first one. fraziers left hook is probably a little more powerful than tysons when he got it off full blast, but tyson had the "upper-hook" two punches in one that would get off so fast with so much power that he lifted 230+ lb. men off the mat. Did frazier ever do that? could ali take more than a handful of them? i dont think so. ali's generalship wouldnt count for anything against a prime tyson, because back then tyson knew those tricks as well and knew how to counter them. Hes got the edge on speed, power, I'd call it a tie on generalship. Ali's got the footwork. Tysons got chin. Ali would run, but he couldnt do it for 12 rounds and certainly not for 15.

what you are failing to consider is that tyson was trained to perfection by cus d'amato, who also trained floyd patterson, who was slower and weaker than ali and was getting over the flu in their first fight and an injury in their second. both times he gave ali something to think about but couldnt handle the distance. Tyson had more power in a jab going backwards, (which he never really used) than pattersons meanest hook, uppercut or cross. Tyson WAS quicker than patterson, ali, anyone. Tyson was the quickest heavyweight of significance ever, plus hes up there in the top 5 power punchers of all time. Ali was quick, but not quicker than iron mike. Plus mike was only ever knocked out once, against a hard hitting douglas over 10 rounds. All the other losses were just being ground down or quitting. Ali couldnt have done that to the pre-douglas tyson because he couldnt have hit him. Think about it, Joe frazier took 3 or 4 to the mush to give one and with that no defense style he beat ali in the first one. fraziers left hook is probably a little more powerful than tysons when he got it off full blast, but tyson had the "upper-hook" two punches in one that would get off so fast with so much power that he lifted 230+ lb. men off the mat. Did frazier ever do that? could ali take more than a handful of them? i dont think so. ali's generalship wouldnt count for anything against a prime tyson, because back then tyson knew those tricks as well and knew how to counter them. Hes got the edge on speed, power, I'd call it a tie on generalship. Ali's got the footwork. Tysons got chin. Ali would run, but he couldnt do it for 12 rounds and certainly not for 15.
Where do you guys come from? Have you ever really seen any of the fighters you allude to? Patterson was getting over the flu? Gee, I remember boxing history having it as Patterson had a bad back, Ali toyed with him then KO'd the poor guy. 1st fight/2nd fight regardless the excuse, the results were the same. Wait! Oh, Floyd was one of Cus's fighters, so he needs you guys like "Iron" Mike (the excuse thing). Yeah, the old vet had the young'in Ali on the "brink" twice! Yeah, the forgotten boxing talents of Tyson, could jab just like Ali when backing up. So, it took a "hard" hitting Douglas to stop the Tyson "express", I guess we were all seeing things (sorta like Patterson getting his ass kicked against Ali) when the "Iron one" was on the deck against Holyfield, Lewis, etc. Ali's ring saavy wouldn't count? I guess you're right, look how little Holyfield's & Lewis's did for them. Oh and how could I be so blind! Of course Tyson had a better chin than Ali, I mean Wepner had Ali out on his feet!!!

what you are failing to consider is that tyson was trained to perfection by cus d'amato, who also trained floyd patterson, who was slower and weaker than ali and was getting over the flu in their first fight and an injury in their second. both times he gave ali something to think about but couldnt handle the distance. Tyson had more power in a jab going backwards, (which he never really used) than pattersons meanest hook, uppercut or cross. Tyson WAS quicker than patterson, ali, anyone. Tyson was the quickest heavyweight of significance ever, plus hes up there in the top 5 power punchers of all time. Ali was quick, but not quicker than iron mike. Plus mike was only ever knocked out once, against a hard hitting douglas over 10 rounds. All the other losses were just being ground down or quitting. Ali couldnt have done that to the pre-douglas tyson because he couldnt have hit him. Think about it, Joe frazier took 3 or 4 to the mush to give one and with that no defense style he beat ali in the first one. fraziers left hook is probably a little more powerful than tysons when he got it off full blast, but tyson had the "upper-hook" two punches in one that would get off so fast with so much power that he lifted 230+ lb. men off the mat. Did frazier ever do that? could ali take more than a handful of them? i dont think so. ali's generalship wouldnt count for anything against a prime tyson, because back then tyson knew those tricks as well and knew how to counter them. Hes got the edge on speed, power, I'd call it a tie on generalship. Ali's got the footwork. Tysons got chin. Ali would run, but he couldnt do it for 12 rounds and certainly not for 15.

STAMINA:
Mike Tyson would not have the stamina to chase Muhammad Ali for 12 or 15 rounds. Ali had incredible stamina and would easily outlast Tyson.

POWER:
Mike Tyson of course. So what? Foreman had more power than did Tyson, and Ali took Foremans best shots for almost 8 rounds. And at age 35 he took some tremendous shots from the hardest puncher of them all, Earnie Shavers.

SPEED:
They both had incredible handspeed, but prime Ali was much, much faster on his feet. When it comes to reflexes, I give them both an A. But considering Alis better stamina, Tyson would tire sooner and slow down.

CHIN:
Ali all the way! Tyson had a solid chin, no doubt, but no where near Ali. I'm thinking Ali had one of the two greatest beards in heavyweight history.

HEART:
Ali had tons of it, Tyson had none of it.

SKILL:
Tyson is somewhat underrated skillwise, and Ali is often overrated. Still, I definitely consider Ali to be the better boxer.

RECUPERATIVE ABILITY:
Ali showed us time and again the ability to come back. Tyson never won a fight where he sucked canvas.

WHY TYSON WOULD WIN:
Mike Tyson would come out fast and tag Ali with some hard, accurate shots. Ali would be caught off balance and slam to the canvas. The ref (who is bribed), jumps in and stops the fight...

WHY ALI WOULD WIN:
Ali would win this one before the bell rang. He would have Tyson scared, pissed off and confused, all at the same time. I can vividly envision Ali imitating Tyson at the press conference, causing a scene.

Tyson would come out fast as he always did in his prime. Ali would be dancing around the ring, grabbing Tyson whenever he got close (remember, Tyson was easy to tie up, even in his prime). After a few rounds, Tyson would be bewildered, tired and behind on points. This is where he caves in and start throwing desperate punches at the always confident Ali. With his speed, timing, stamina and great mobility, Ali would make Tyson look like a fool. He would taunt, hit and dance Tyson into submission. Inside of 10 rounds, Tyson goes down for keeps.

Muhammad Ali by tko10.

Stiv Rex,


You guys keep mentioning Tyson's power and Tyson only being floored by Douglas. Read all we put about Foreman. He hit as hard if not harder than Tyson and had a stronger chin but Ali downed him......

Ali is just too smart and classy for Tyson so Ali couldn't have fought Tyson in his game. :D Holyfield is not even half of Ali's skills in his prime and yet he found a way to defeat Tyson, now how can you argue that Tyson can beat Ali? :D

Tyson doesn't have any other fighting style but to move forward, crowd his opponents and brawl. Ali would have tire him out chasing and frustrating him in the first six rounds with his lighting jabs and take Tyson out in the later rounds.

Watch both of these boxers old fights people and then argue.

M26, the way you break it down is mostly correct, but i have to disagree on a few things. First is stamina. Mike tyson had plenty of stamina pre-douglas, because he still had work ethic. granted it wasnt his own, it was the remnants of d'amato's and atlas's training, busting his butt to get him to do his work. But still, a PRIME tyson would have no problem going 12 with a PRIME ali, and by the way, a PRIME tyson is the one i'm saying could beat ali. What tyson didnt have to begin with and never did was heart. You are correct all the way with that. But neither have many of the linear heavyweight champs. you dont need the heart always in the heavyweights, having a chin and a punch that could knock out a horse is enough sometimes. Whether foreman had a better punch than tyson is something i would argue, but it is a seperate point. what you guys missed (intentionally?) in your replies to my message was the reference to frazier. Who else did ali fight that was 4 or 5 inches shorter than him? not many. he had problems with pressure fighters, he tended to run. since he couldnt call it that he called it rope-a-dope. tyson is in the mold of frazier, but he was stronger, had an equal chin, equal stamina, a higher punch output and most *importantly* had some idea about defense, footwork, ring generalship. Ali never beat frazier concretely, he got the points he needed to win. But i cant see how ali could get away from tyson over a 15 rounder, plus he couldnt hit tyson (a PRIME tyson, remember) and wear him down the way he did frazier. Thats how i compare them, styles and bodies of contemporaries. When did tyson ever have trouble with a cutie? never. his defeats were to guys who out-boxed him and had a punch, and honestly i think that ali was fundamentaly flawed. he was a cutie who relied on his hand and foot speed, the former of which would be rendered moot by tysons own handspeed. Think about it though, ali kept his gloves down by his hips in about half of every fight he ever had. he'd only tuck that chin when they got close enough for body work, concerned about catching something coming up. he was a cutie who counted on his reflexes, not fundamentals, which tyson did have and followed to a tee in his prime. yes, michael spinks was not in the same league as ali, but he was the same mold, plus had never been knocked down until his fight with tyson, so who can say how much tyson intimidated him? That brings me to another of your points, M26. Ali wouldnt scare tyson, no one has ever been better at that art of boxing than tyson himself. mike may not have got to ali, but it is ridiculous to think that ali could scare tyson. i will agree that tyson was easy to tie up, but in my opinion hes one of the best infighting heavyweights ever. he always has known what to do, but in his prime he still did it, he still gave half a crap. he could have danced with ali all night. actual smarts is the biggest edge besides heart that ali had. yeah, he would outthink tyson, he would frustrate him a bit. but he couldnt run forever and he couldnt hit him enough to take him out. by the way, the ko's to lewis and holyfield were quitting. that wass the post-douglas tyson that didnt do his work, he didnt have the heart, didnt come into the fight prepared. He had actually begun the slide before the douglas fight and never changed direction, just counted on his punch and intimidation to do the job. if it didnt, he still gave them a tough fight before he quit. i cant remember a first round that tyson ever lost, pre or post. the difference before the slide was that he kept trying, stuck to the rules. by the way, im not trying to make a point here, just curious, how much did foreman weigh for the rumble with ali?

Foreman weighed in at 220 lbs for the "Rumble" with Ali.

I have to disagree with you. Tyson was never in the same league as Ali. And you cannot compare Tyson to Frazier. They were about the same height, but that is about it. Tyson had more speed and power, but Frazier had stamina and heart. This is what made him win the first fight against Ali, and this is what kept him going in the two other fights.

Granted, Tyson had decent stamina in his prime, but he lost much of his punch after five rounds or so. Ali on the other hand, did not fade so much during a fight as did Tyson. This would make all the difference.

Even though Tyson had very fast hands, he was not too quick on his feet. Ali was incredible in that department. He would easily keep Tyson away by dancing and sticking him with ripping jabs. And if Tyson ever got close, Ali would simply tie him up.

Tyson had very good reflexes, but Ali was so fast with his hands that I can see him hurting Tyson, even in the earlier rounds.

Tyson did scare other fighters, that is true. This is often why he won! He had his foe so scared that the fight became a walk in the park for Tyson. A good example is the Spinks fight... Can you envision Ali being scared of Tyson? Never.

You say Ali could not scare Tyson? I beg to differ. A 23 year-old Tyson was afraid to fight a 41 year-old George Foreman back in 1990. This should tell you something...

Tyson was a schoolyard bully who looked awesome fighting lesser foes. Once someone stood up to him, he lost his cool. Ali would not only stand up to him, he would destroy him.

Muhammad Ali by tko10.

Foreman weighed in at 220 lbs for the "Rumble" with Ali.

I have to disagree with you. Tyson was never in the same league as Ali. And you cannot compare Tyson to Frazier. They were about the same height, but that is about it. Tyson had more speed and power, but Frazier had stamina and heart. This is what made him win the first fight against Ali, and this is what kept him going in the two other fights.

Granted, Tyson had decent stamina in his prime, but he lost much of his punch after five rounds or so. Ali on the other hand, did not fade so much during a fight as did Tyson. This would make all the difference.

Even though Tyson had very fast hands, he was not too quick on his feet. Ali was incredible in that department. He would easily keep Tyson away by dancing and sticking him with ripping jabs. And if Tyson ever got close, Ali would simply tie him up.

Tyson had very good reflexes, but Ali was so fast with his hands that I can see him hurting Tyson, even in the earlier rounds.

Tyson did scare other fighters, that is true. This is often why he won! He had his foe so scared that the fight became a walk in the park for Tyson. A good example is the Spinks fight... Can you envision Ali being scared of Tyson? Never.

You say Ali could not scare Tyson? I beg to differ. A 23 year-old Tyson was afraid to fight a 41 year-old George Foreman back in 1990. This should tell you something...

Tyson was a schoolyard bully who looked awesome fighting lesser foes. Once someone stood up to him, he lost his cool. Ali would not only stand up to him, he would destroy him.

Muhammad Ali by tko10.


Very well explained ;) You seems to have done your research very well.

You are right, most of Tyson's fights were won even before the fighters climb into the ring. Most of his opponents came in there not to fight but merely to survive never threathening Tyson at any point, never throwing punches backing up and covering, moving away from his power punches and when Buster Douglas and Holyfield came into the picture and gave him a real threat, a real challenge, TYSON lost.

This should give people a clear picture of Tyson's one dimensional fighting style and his stamina. How many times did he fought at full 12 rounds during his prime?

And Ali having an incredible footwork, skills and being a master tactician not to mention his elongated reach will always find a way to neutralize Tyson's aggresiveness and tire him out in the early rounds for a late K.O.

tyson is just a smaller liston. ali would call the round in which to ko tyson and would do it. he would also write a poem about it too. it would go something like this

"he can't touch me, this chump can't survive
iron mike goes down in five" lol! :D

tyson is just a smaller liston. ali would call the round in which to ko tyson and would do it. he would also write a poem about it too. it would go something like this

"he can't touch me, this chump can't survive
iron mike goes down in five" lol! :D

That's for sure! :)

Tyson and Frazier hit nearly equal. I don't remember hearing Mike Tyson tearing someone's eye out of it's socket.

Tyson and Frazier hit nearly equal. I don't remember hearing Mike Tyson tearing someone's eye out of it's socket.

As far as ripping an eye out goes, that is impossible to do with a clean punch, and any boxer could rip out an eye by sticking a thumb (intentionally or not)in the socket on the punch. doesnt prove anything, although i never heard that story about frazier. care to elaborate? what fight was that in? I'm kindof a young'in so i only have been able to see the frazier fights on espn classic.
i did hear that tyson gave steve zouski (sorry about the spelling) double vision for a week after his fight. i remember seeing him lift at least a dozen opponents off the mat with uppercuts, and being able to hit them again with hooks 2 or 3 times before they hit the mat. never saw frazier do any of that. i did see foreman lift a few, but he was slow as molasses in winter and couldnt hit them again quickly enough.

As far as ripping an eye out goes, that is impossible to do with a clean punch, and any boxer could rip out an eye by sticking a thumb (intentionally or not)in the socket on the punch. doesnt prove anything, although i never heard that story about frazier. care to elaborate? what fight was that in? I'm kindof a young'in so i only have been able to see the frazier fights on espn classic.
i did hear that tyson gave steve zouski (sorry about the spelling) double vision for a week after his fight. i remember seeing him lift at least a dozen opponents off the mat with uppercuts, and being able to hit them again with hooks 2 or 3 times before they hit the mat. never saw frazier do any of that. i did see foreman lift a few, but he was slow as molasses in winter and couldnt hit them again quickly enough.
the socket fight was when he faced george chuvalo, the toughest fighter ever. after his eye was decapitated, he still didn't go down. he never went down his whole career, not even frazier could say that. man, i can't believe that actually happened. that is amazing!

Thank you, Butterfly just summed it up for you.

thats one tought sonofabitch, i wonder if anybody could ever drop him

Mike tyson would be frustrated into defeat.

The only person I can see dropping Chuvalo would be a prime Joe Louis on the best night of his career. Foreman couldn't drop him. Frazier couldn't. Ali couldn't. Patterson couldn't. If Frazier can't drop him, Dempsey probably couldn't drop him.

The only person I can see dropping Chuvalo would be a prime Joe Louis on the best night of his career. Foreman couldn't drop him. Frazier couldn't. Ali couldn't. Patterson couldn't. If Frazier can't drop him, Dempsey probably couldn't drop him.
maybe jersey joe walcott, he was a master of catching you off balance.

maybe jersey joe walcott, he was a master of catching you off balance.

look, if foreman couldn't drop him, then nobody could drop him, and foreman is known to dropping pretty much anybody. ali is the only person to ko foreman, the first to ko chuck wepner, and the first to tko lyle, and in two tries he couldn't ko chuvalo, drop him or tko him, so nobody could. :cool:

im not saying he would hurt him like foreman could i mean he would catch him off balance while not hurting him

im not saying he would hurt him like foreman could i mean he would catch him off balance while not hurting him

i don't think so. chuvalo is not marciano. chuvalo is about 20lbs. heavier than marciano, and has a way better chin.

I’ve prepared a hypothetical scenario. First and foremost, I won’t hide anything: I believe that Muhammad Ali was the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time. I also believe that Mike Tyson could have taken that title, had he kept his head screwed on properly. First, let’s do a little background and some statistics.

Against Mitchell, Rodriguez, Ruddock, and several others, Tyson was forced into later-round matches. Each of which saw Tyson still attacking and assaulting in rounds 7, 8, 9, and 10 with the same ferocity as rounds 1-3. Mike Tyson also defeated Larry Holmes, who was only 32 years old, which is hardly “old” for a boxer (see: Bernard Hopkins), in the 4th round. During this fight, Holmes employed an Ali-esque style by using the ropes, rolling with the punches, and using a flicking jab to set the pace. Unfortunately for Holmes, as well as all speed fighters, Tyson’s power generally overshadowed his quickness and his ability to cut off the ring, while attacking the body. When he was prepared, his was a machine. It was all in the conditioning. If Tyson was prepared for a fight, which was the case while Cus was alive, he conditioned himself for a fight of any length. After Cus died, his wife also left (and tried to take his money), his second trainer died shortly thereafter, Teddy Atlas threatened to kill him, and Don King took over his (Tyson's) life; Mike was a wreck of a man psychologically. In the Buster Douglas fight, Mike stood flat footed for 10 rounds, not caring about his 42:1 underdog of an opponent, figuring that this was a primer for Evander Holyfield. Even in this situation, Tyson managed to knock Douglas down for a 9 count in round eight in which the referee stopped the count before Buster was even on his feet. All of the above events took place during the course of 1990-1991. Remove these factors and Tyson would have been 50-0. Since this didn't happen, however, let's just go back to Tyson's prime in the late 1980's and pretend that he was well-trained and properly conditioned.

Muhammad Ali was physically in his prime in the late 1960's, but he reached his boxing prime in the 1970's. He was smarter, while a bit slower, and held the title (on-and-off) for over 5 years. Let's combine the two and make one, super, Muhammad Ali. He could dance, he could flick the jab, and he could smack-talk anyone into a frenzied state. This would prove difficult against an early Mike Tyson, as his focus was on studying boxing history, as well as tearing people to the ground. But even a disciplined Tyson under Cus would be subject, at least a little, to Ali's verbal abuse.

Ali vs. Tyson I “The Greatest” vs. “Iron Mike”

In the early going, Tyson would bob and weave after Ali, looking for openings and weaknesses. Ali's incredible speed makes this difficult. He flicks the jab at a head that consistently bobs left and right in an attempt to score some early points. Eventually, in the 3rd or 4th round, Tyson starts to cut off the ring distance, much like he did against Larry Holmes, and chops at Ali's conditioned mid-section. As good as his body is, the prolific slams to the ribs take their toll. Eventually, Ali's head falls a little carelessly and Tyson catches Muhammad with a devastating uppercut, knocking Ali out in round 5 or 6. Conclusion: Tyson would most likely surprise Ali with his ability to dodge, duck, and weave his way into a taller opponent's space, and work the body until it couldn't handle the abuse any longer.

Ali vs. Tyson II The Thrilla and the Killa rematch

As always, when Don King is involved, there would be a rematch. This time, however, Ali is far more prepared, and Tyson is probably arrogant. Tyson comes out in the early rounds and attempts to chop the taller man down again. This time, Ali pokes at the eyebrows of a slower-moving Tyson to get him flailing with wild haymakers. Ali clinches Tyson against the ropes until the ref separates the two fighters. In the mid, to late rounds, Tyson begins showing signs of frustration. He starts to sneak elbow shots and low body shots that get him a few warnings. His eyes are showing signs of puffiness from Ali's precision punching. Both fighters are pretty tired towards the end of the fight, but Ali continues to win on points. At the end of 12 rounds, it's clear that Ali does have much greater stamina, and he wins a uninanimous decision.
Conclusion: Ali, in a similar fashion to Ali vs. Frazier II, would have made far fewer mistakes. While his opponent's aggression would still take it's toll, Ali would have greater respect for Tyson, and would play it cautiously until the fight was over.

Ali vs. Tyson III Settled

Chances are, Tyson would come out more aggressive in this fight than in any other. His punches would be wild, however, and Ali, with his ability to slip by the big shots, would manage to strafe away. Tyson would then slow down, take some patient shots, and attempt to cut down Ali's body again. The master of the ol' Rope-A-Dope would probably draw Iron Mike in and allow him to punch himself out. Tyson's arms don't punch out so easily though, and Ali's head begins to dip a little. Round 9 rolls along and Ali sets himself on cruise control, as both fighters basically clinch their way through this round. With less than a minute to go in the round, Ali gives himself some distance, and catches Tyson with a surprise 1-2 left & right combination. In typical Butterfly fashion, his goes on a flurry that forces Tyson to cover up and wait for the bell. With Tyson cut and frustrated, he debates even leaving the stool for round 10. Nonetheless, he comes out with a second-wind and starts going to work on the more experienced fighter. Mike's punches are glancing, but they're drawing a lot out of his own tank. Ali survives the assault and takes a breather. The next round sees Ali plant his feet to get behind his punches and he lands straight rights and lefts to the cuts above Iron Mike's eyes. Eventually, Mike’s eyes, nose, and cheeks are bleeding. True to form, Ali is an amazing finisher and puts Tyson through a clinic with a flurry of accurate blows which forces the referee to stop the fight. Ali wins by a TKO.
Conclusion: Ali would get better against any fighter with time. If you give him multiple attempts at any fighter throughout history, he would win the majority of those battles. Furthermore, Tyson, when focused, could have ripped down any fighter in any era. His style was his own, and his punches were devastating. He had fast, powerful combinations that landed with surprising accuracy. What separates Mike Tyson from other "power" or "volume" punchers was the fact that he could hit with either hand in any form. Joe Frazier was solely a left-hook; he even admitted to this. His right hand was basically a gimpy parrying tool. Sonny Liston was a hard, overhand right, and that’s why Ali was able to gauge him predictably. Rocky was all about the right hand. Joe Louis, left hook. Etc., etc. While these fighters proved themselves to be champions by not allowing their personal lives to ruin their great careers, this is all hypothetical anyway.

Final Standings: Muhammad Ali – 2, Mike Tyson – 1

I firmly believe that if you would have given Ali three fights against any fighter in history, he would have won at least two of them. I also believe, based on evidence, that Tyson was vastly underrated because of the tragic events that befelled his personal life, as well as his boxing career. Cheers.

I’ve prepared a hypothetical scenario. First and foremost, I won’t hide anything: I believe that Muhammad Ali was the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time. I also believe that Mike Tyson could have taken that title, had he kept his head screwed on properly. First, let’s do a little background and some statistics.

Against Mitchell, Rodriguez, Ruddock, and several others, Tyson was forced into later-round matches. Each of which saw Tyson still attacking and assaulting in rounds 7, 8, 9, and 10 with the same ferocity as rounds 1-3. Mike Tyson also defeated Larry Holmes, who was only 32 years old, which is hardly “old” for a boxer (see: Bernard Hopkins), in the 4th round. During this fight, Holmes employed an Ali-esque style by using the ropes, rolling with the punches, and using a flicking jab to set the pace. Unfortunately for Holmes, as well as all speed fighters, Tyson’s power generally overshadowed his quickness and his ability to cut off the ring, while attacking the body. When he was prepared, his was a machine. It was all in the conditioning. If Tyson was prepared for a fight, which was the case while Cus was alive, he conditioned himself for a fight of any length. After Cus died, his wife also left (and tried to take his money), his second trainer died shortly thereafter, Teddy Atlas threatened to kill him, and Don King took over his (Tyson's) life; Mike was a wreck of a man psychologically. In the Buster Douglas fight, Mike stood flat footed for 10 rounds, not caring about his 42:1 underdog of an opponent, figuring that this was a primer for Evander Holyfield. Even in this situation, Tyson managed to knock Douglas down for a 9 count in round eight in which the referee stopped the count before Buster was even on his feet. All of the above events took place during the course of 1990-1991. Remove these factors and Tyson would have been 50-0. Since this didn't happen, however, let's just go back to Tyson's prime in the late 1980's and pretend that he was well-trained and properly conditioned.

Muhammad Ali was physically in his prime in the late 1960's, but he reached his boxing prime in the 1970's. He was smarter, while a bit slower, and held the title (on-and-off) for over 5 years. Let's combine the two and make one, super, Muhammad Ali. He could dance, he could flick the jab, and he could smack-talk anyone into a frenzied state. This would prove difficult against an early Mike Tyson, as his focus was on studying boxing history, as well as tearing people to the ground. But even a disciplined Tyson under Cus would be subject, at least a little, to Ali's verbal abuse.

Ali vs. Tyson I “The Greatest” vs. “Iron Mike”

In the early going, Tyson would bob and weave after Ali, looking for openings and weaknesses. Ali's incredible speed makes this difficult. He flicks the jab at a head that consistently bobs left and right in an attempt to score some early points. Eventually, in the 3rd or 4th round, Tyson starts to cut off the ring distance, much like he did against Larry Holmes, and chops at Ali's conditioned mid-section. As good as his body is, the prolific slams to the ribs take their toll. Eventually, Ali's head falls a little carelessly and Tyson catches Muhammad with a devastating uppercut, knocking Ali out in round 5 or 6. Conclusion: Tyson would most likely surprise Ali with his ability to dodge, duck, and weave his way into a taller opponent's space, and work the body until it couldn't handle the abuse any longer.

Ali vs. Tyson II The Thrilla and the Killa rematch

As always, when Don King is involved, there would be a rematch. This time, however, Ali is far more prepared, and Tyson is probably arrogant. Tyson comes out in the early rounds and attempts to chop the taller man down again. This time, Ali pokes at the eyebrows of a slower-moving Tyson to get him flailing with wild haymakers. Ali clinches Tyson against the ropes until the ref separates the two fighters. In the mid, to late rounds, Tyson begins showing signs of frustration. He starts to sneak elbow shots and low body shots that get him a few warnings. His eyes are showing signs of puffiness from Ali's precision punching. Both fighters are pretty tired towards the end of the fight, but Ali continues to win on points. At the end of 12 rounds, it's clear that Ali does have much greater stamina, and he wins a uninanimous decision.
Conclusion: Ali, in a similar fashion to Ali vs. Frazier II, would have made far fewer mistakes. While his opponent's aggression would still take it's toll, Ali would have greater respect for Tyson, and would play it cautiously until the fight was over.

Ali vs. Tyson III Settled

Chances are, Tyson would come out more aggressive in this fight than in any other. His punches would be wild, however, and Ali, with his ability to slip by the big shots, would manage to strafe away. Tyson would then slow down, take some patient shots, and attempt to cut down Ali's body again. The master of the ol' Rope-A-Dope would probably draw Iron Mike in and allow him to punch himself out. Tyson's arms don't punch out so easily though, and Ali's head begins to dip a little. Round 9 rolls along and Ali sets himself on cruise control, as both fighters basically clinch their way through this round. With less than a minute to go in the round, Ali gives himself some distance, and catches Tyson with a surprise 1-2 left & right combination. In typical Butterfly fashion, his goes on a flurry that forces Tyson to cover up and wait for the bell. With Tyson cut and frustrated, he debates even leaving the stool for round 10. Nonetheless, he comes out with a second-wind and starts going to work on the more experienced fighter. Mike's punches are glancing, but they're drawing a lot out of his own tank. Ali survives the assault and takes a breather. The next round sees Ali plant his feet to get behind his punches and he lands straight rights and lefts to the cuts above Iron Mike's eyes. Eventually, Mike’s eyes, nose, and cheeks are bleeding. True to form, Ali is an amazing finisher and puts Tyson through a clinic with a flurry of accurate blows which forces the referee to stop the fight. Ali wins by a TKO.
Conclusion: Ali would get better against any fighter with time. If you give him multiple attempts at any fighter throughout history, he would win the majority of those battles. Furthermore, Tyson, when focused, could have ripped down any fighter in any era. His style was his own, and his punches were devastating. He had fast, powerful combinations that landed with surprising accuracy. What separates Mike Tyson from other "power" or "volume" punchers was the fact that he could hit with either hand in any form. Joe Frazier was solely a left-hook; he even admitted to this. His right hand was basically a gimpy parrying tool. Sonny Liston was a hard, overhand right, and that’s why Ali was able to gauge him predictably. Rocky was all about the right hand. Joe Louis, left hook. Etc., etc. While these fighters proved themselves to be champions by not allowing their personal lives to ruin their great careers, this is all hypothetical anyway.

Final Standings: Muhammad Ali – 2, Mike Tyson – 1

I firmly believe that if you would have given Ali three fights against any fighter in history, he would have won at least two of them. I also believe, based on evidence, that Tyson was vastly underrated because of the tragic events that befelled his personal life, as well as his boxing career. Cheers.
do you think! you really believe the man with argueably the greatest chin of all time would get ko'd in 5 or 6 by tyson? no his prime wasnt the 70's idiot it was the 60's. tyson didnt have the stamina to keep up with ali for 15 rounds. tyson hand speed doesnt compare to ali's reflexes, therefore he doesnt hit him flush for the first 7 rounds. this would end like tyson vs. douglas except sooner

Yes. Ali's chin wasn't that great. One hit from Frazier...down. Tyson had greater power in both hands and far more hand speed. The reason Ali didn't go down more often in his fights versus power fighters was because of the psychological advantage he had. If you ever read his biography, called King of the World, Ali and his circle of friends and trainers admit to the fact that when Ali was hurt, he exaggerated or feigned one way or another to confuse his opponents and they wouldn't go for the finish. Pretending to be a psycho before a fight gave him that edge. In the 60's and 70's, that sort of thing was rare. Foreman had him hurt, but fell for Ali's tricks. Frazier hurt him in all three fights, but only pounced on the opportunity in their first meeting (this is confirmed in both Ali's and Frazier's books). Ken Norton made potato chips of Ali's jaw, and continued to hurt him in their following fights, which Ali won by a narrow decision. Later interviews by both parties revealed that Norton wasn't permitted to take clean shots at Ali or he would be denied further title shots for the remainder of his career. No joke. Hence, Ali winning very narrowly in fights 2 and 3. Tyson would not have fallen for a feign on Ali's part. When Tyson sensed weakness, he was the most prolific finisher in the history of the heavyweight division. Also, if you would continue to read, I did have Ali win fights two and three after he had some experience against Iron Mike. When I stated that Ali primed in the 1970's, I did explain that it was his mental maturity. Yes, in the 60's, Ali was in better shape; but, he was a far more cunning fighter in the 70's when his physical gifts were wearing down. Since you don't read everything written, I'll just assume that you will ignore this twice. Furthermore, I do believe Ali to the be the best ever, and I made that clear in my first post.

Now, since you, NextRocky, know as little about realistic boxing as a Rocky movie would try to portray--which is obvious by your fruitless comments and equally meaningless insult: idiot--I don't think that my hypothetical scenario is too far from what a reality might have proven. Just stating that someone is "too fast" or "too agile" doesn't prove a thing. Since I have creditable evidence, and you just have insults, I would have to side with myself; even though I'm not a neutral observer in this discussion.

Besides...This was all in fun anyway. There's no REAL way of knowing how this would or could have ended up; there's no REAL way of knowing how Tyson would have fared as a career champion had he kept his head screwed on straight; there's no REAL way of knowing how much better Ali could have been had he not been forced out of boxing for several years. I just decided to have a little fun as a boxing historian and avid fan. So, enjoy. :boxing:

bitch the only reason frazier won the first fight is cuz ali lost speed after his layoff and he was caught off balance, had he been in his prime he wouldve been all the way across the ring before it even got near him.norton had him hurt but did he go down no, he lost by one round. and my name has nothing to do with the rocky movie stop assuming shit bitch

Obviously, your knowledge of boxing is minimal. You just proved my case by doing nothing more than cussing at me. Is that the only english you know? Whether or not Ali was prepped for the Frazier fight doesn't matter; the same can be said for Tyson against Douglas, or even Holyfield. Your arguments aren't backed up by anything intelligent or significant, so I will not be replying further to you until you hit puberty.

Would anybody else like to discuss this matter in a friendly and fun manner? :boxing:

the point is ali would beat tyson 3 out of 3 times. you dont beat somebody at their own game.

bitch the only reason frazier won the first fight is cuz ali lost speed after his layoff and he was caught off balance, had he been in his prime he wouldve been all the way across the ring before it even got near him.norton had him hurt but did he go down no, he lost by one round. and my name has nothing to do with the rocky movie stop assuming shit bitch

And the fact that Frazier fought his ass and pulled off the best performance of his career. You can't blame Ali for losing to Frazier that night, I doubt anyone could have beat Frazier that night.

Exactly. Frazier was in the best shape of his, or almost anyone's professional boxing career when he fought Ali that night. Secondly, Ali wasn't out of shape. He was given 5 preliminary fights before he had to take on Frazier, and he still got beaten. Frazier was on top of his game, and on top of Ali in their first fight. Smokin' Joe still fought valiantly in fights two and three, but again, Ali will beat anyone 2 out of 3 times.

In response to Rocky: Tyson wouldn't play Ali's game; rather, he would have played his own. In their first meeting, Ali's usually spectacular ring generalship would have been thrown slightly off by a well-conditioned Tyson, much as it was in the first meeting with Joe Frazier. But again, Ali would beat Tyson up in the next two fights. In all seriousness, we could all be wrong and Ali may have knocked Tyson out in round one, or Tyson may have beaten Ali all three times. If we are going to include some truth instead of throwing opinions around all day, it's absolutely certain that it would have been amazing!

Exactly. Frazier was in the best shape of his, or almost anyone's professional boxing career when he fought Ali that night. Secondly, Ali wasn't out of shape. He was given 5 preliminary fights before he had to take on Frazier, and he still got beaten. Frazier was on top of his game, and on top of Ali in their first fight. Smokin' Joe still fought valiantly in fights two and three, but again, Ali will beat anyone 2 out of 3 times.

ali fought only twice befor frazier, and one of them lasted only three rounds, so no ali wasn't ready yet, and would have beaten frazier had he fought more fights.

Exactly. Frazier was in the best shape of his, or almost anyone's professional boxing career when he fought Ali that night. Secondly, Ali wasn't out of shape. He was given 5 preliminary fights before he had to take on Frazier, and he still got beaten. Frazier was on top of his game, and on top of Ali in their first fight. Smokin' Joe still fought valiantly in fights two and three, but again, Ali will beat anyone 2 out of 3 times.

In response to Rocky: Tyson wouldn't play Ali's game; rather, he would have played his own. In their first meeting, Ali's usually spectacular ring generalship would have been thrown slightly off by a well-conditioned Tyson, much as it was in the first meeting with Joe Frazier. But again, Ali would beat Tyson up in the next two fights. In all seriousness, we could all be wrong and Ali may have knocked Tyson out in round one, or Tyson may have beaten Ali all three times. If we are going to include some truth instead of throwing opinions around all day, it's absolutely certain that it would have been amazing!
i agree ali would be underprepared for tyson speed in the first fight but if they had another 1 or 2 fights ali would be prepared and outsmart tyson. ali would no be able to ko tyson but would win on points

i agree ali would be underprepared for tyson speed in the first fight but if they had another 1 or 2 fights ali would be prepared and outsmart tyson. ali would no be able to ko tyson but would win on points

ali would frustrate, then ko tyson late if they fought 100 times. ali is just too fast, and his chin is too strong.

That's actually incorrect. He fought 3 non-sanctioned bouts before tackling 2 real contestants. While that doesn't count as 5 "complete" fights, in the full sense of the phrase, he still had plenty of time. Nonetheless, he had lost a step during his time off.

P.S. Ali wasn't "too" fast; he was still human. And, unbeknownst to the uninformed, Tyson was surprisingly fast as well; his speed was often overshadowed by his power. Either way, I STILL HAVE ALI WINNING OVERALL!. Jeesh...These people act like I'm saying Tyson would dominate him. Who knows? We could all be wrong. I would also like to take this time to point out the fact that simply stating, "...Ali is too fast..." doesn't present an argument at all. At least not one that carries any weight. While Ali's footwork and hand speed are nigh unmatched, he was still beatable. :boxing:

P.P.S. There's a nifty three-piece set of paintings that someone did in acrylic, depicting the very match we're discussing. It's a beautiful set. Does anyone have them here?

Look put it this way Tyson would scare Ali so bad before the fight that Ali's hands would nt be vcaught on camera he'd lay a good whuppin on mike.











But in the 14th Tyson knocks ali down with a right Ali gets up but then again you know what happens to those who get up(legitamately) against a(prime)(prime) Mike Tyson.

Tyson by SD or Stoppage.
Ali comes back to beat him in a war by ud getting floored twice in the early going. there would never be a third fight.





Why? because in the press conference for the third it would get so heated that they'd ko each other at the post fight interview or next weigh-in. :boxing: :boxing: :boxing: :boxing:

I think it would be more on the line of Ali destroying Tyson both mentally and physicaly in one fight!

Look put it this way Tyson would scare Ali so bad before the fight that Ali's hands would nt be vcaught on camera he'd lay a good whuppin on mike.











But in the 14th Tyson knocks ali down with a right Ali gets up but then again you know what happens to those who get up(legitamately) against a(prime)(prime) Mike Tyson.

Tyson by SD or Stoppage.
Ali comes back to beat him in a war by ud getting floored twice in the early going. there would never be a third fight.





Why? because in the press conference for the third it would get so heated that they'd ko each other at the post fight interview or next weigh-in. :boxing: :boxing: :boxing: :boxing:

*****, ali beat foreman, not just beat him, but crushed him, and ali was 32 years old! ali also ravaged liston twice. and foreman and liston are way better than tyson. no way ali loses to a slugger, he's taylor made for ali.

George Foreman may have been able to compete with Tyson. Ali beat a largely unprepared Foreman in 90 degree heat where the heavier puncher was at a severe disadvantage. Additionally, the ol' Rope-A-Dope became very much illegal after Ali abused it all night long. Foreman gave up in that fight and Ali never permitted him a rematch. I will concede, however, that Ali did take advantage of every resource he had available to him to defeat a high-quality opponent; probably one of the top 10 fighters in history. Sonny Liston, however, was just a thug. His association with the mafia won him several fights, and the fact that he looked scary won him his belt against Floyd Patterson. In his biography, Floyd admitted to basically going out there and covering up against Liston, because he never believed he had a shot. Tyson was faster than Liston, weighed more than Liston, and could use both hands; a talent that separated him from a lot of power punchers.

I would like to agree with some of the statements made by Gemini in that chances are, the fight probably wouldn't make it past the pre-fight hearings. The way I see it, Ali would talk a little smack-rhyme, Tyson would claim he's gonna eat something that belongs to Ali, and they'd fight right there. Tyson would get sued for eating Ali's bodyguard, and his career would spiral out of control. Winner = Ali. :D :boxing: :boxing: :boxing:

George Foreman may have been able to compete with Tyson. Ali beat a largely unprepared Foreman in 90 degree heat where the heavier puncher was at a severe disadvantage. Additionally, the ol' Rope-A-Dope became very much illegal after Ali abused it all night long. Foreman gave up in that fight and Ali never permitted him a rematch. I will concede, however, that Ali did take advantage of every resource he had available to him to defeat a high-quality opponent; probably one of the top 10 fighters in history. Sonny Liston, however, was just a thug. His association with the mafia won him several fights, and the fact that he looked scary won him his belt against Floyd Patterson. In his biography, Floyd admitted to basically going out there and covering up against Liston, because he never believed he had a shot. Tyson was faster than Liston, weighed more than Liston, and could use both hands; a talent that separated him from a lot of power punchers.

I would like to agree with some of the statements made by Gemini in that chances are, the fight probably wouldn't make it past the pre-fight hearings. The way I see it, Ali would talk a little smack-rhyme, Tyson would claim he's gonna eat something that belongs to Ali, and they'd fight right there. Tyson would get sued for eating Ali's bodyguard, and his career would spiral out of control. Winner = Ali. :D :boxing: :boxing:

ok, obviously you don't know liston. oh, he was just a thug? and i suppose tyson was an angel right? that doesn't make any sense. the mafia won him fights? get the hell out of here. there are many people that fought liston that tried to beat liston but couldn't, and floyd is definetely one of them. floyd wasn't scared of liston, in fact then how come he fought liston again? and he wanted to fight him a third time so enough said on that. i'll repeat, is not definite if tyson was faster than liston, or at least had faster hands than liston. i repeat what i said before in another post. you can't base a fighter's career on one fight or two. just because ali made liston look stupid does not mean that tyson would. mike tyson is not muhammad ali. like i said in another post tyson's bob and weave attack style is taylor made for liston's ability to keep you at bay with his reach and jab and to then take you out with the big bombs! liston is very underrated cause he fought ali. i suppose a whole boat load of fighters are underrated cause they fought ali. it's not their fault they fought the greatest, they don't have a chance, nobody would. but that doesn't mean that someone who gets frustrated when he is not destroying you would whup up on them. about half the hall of famers ali fought would beat anybody who ever fought, except ali, including tyson. if it were not for ali, then more people would realize how great they were. please don't sell liston short because if it were not for ali, liston would have been the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time.

http://www.nndb.com/people/167/000085909/liston-sized.jpg

ok, obviously you don't know liston. oh, he was just a thug? and i suppose tyson was an angel right? that doesn't make any sense. the mafia won him fights? get the hell out of here. there are many people that fought liston that tried to beat liston but couldn't, and floyd is definetely one of them. floyd wasn't scared of liston, in fact then how come he fought liston again? and he wanted to fight him a third time so enough said on that. i'll repeat, is not definite if tyson was faster than liston, or at least had faster hands than liston. i repeat what i said before in another post. you can't base a fighter's career on one fight or two. just because ali made liston look stupid does not mean that tyson would. mike tyson is not muhammad ali. like i said in another post tyson's bob and weave attack style is taylor made for liston's ability to keep you at bay with his reach and jab and to then take you out with the big bombs! liston is very underrated cause he fought ali. i suppose a whole boat load of fighters are underrated cause they fought ali. it's not their fault they fought the greatest, they don't have a chance, nobody would. but that doesn't mean that someone who gets frustrated when he is not destroying you would whup up on them. about half the hall of famers ali fought would beat anybody who ever fought, except ali, including tyson. if it were not for ali, then more people would realize how great they were. please don't sell liston short because if it were not for ali, liston would have been the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time.

http://www.nndb.com/people/167/000085909/liston-sized.jpg

Best post I've seen from you in awhile. I think I'll donate some points.

Now with that out of the way, Liston was thug? Did Liston ever rape women? Did Liston ever knock grannies in the face as hard as he could? Did Liston ever bite SOMEONE'S ****ING EAR TO GET OUT OF A MATCH HE WAS LOSING? NOOOOOO. Liston was extremely skilled. You obviously have only seen him fight Ali, where he looks like a ****ing retard. Ever seen Liston vs. Bethea? I'll upload it for you if you want it. I'm sure Butterfly's seen it, and if he has, he knows what kind of handspeed Liston had.

And you say that everyone was scared to fight Liston? What about Tyson? Spinks was ****ing terrified of Tyson, and people praise Tyson for KO'ing him. Patterson wasn't scared of Liston at all, and hit with some good shots, but he was still knocked the **** out. TWICE.

Was Cleveland Williams scared of Liston? Williams hit Liston with some of the best punches I've ever seen, and Liston still KO'ed him. I can't recall Tyson doing that in his career.

I'll post the Bethea and Williams fights for anyone who disagrees with mine or Butterfly's posts. :boxing:

Best post I've seen from you in awhile. I think I'll donate some points.

Now with that out of the way, Liston was thug? Did Liston ever rape women? Did Liston ever knock grannies in the face as hard as he could? Did Liston ever bite SOMEONE'S ****ING EAR TO GET OUT OF A MATCH HE WAS LOSING? NOOOOOO. Liston was extremely skilled. You obviously have only seen him fight Ali, where he looks like a ****ing retard. Ever seen Liston vs. Bethea? I'll upload it for you if you want it. I'm sure Butterfly's seen it, and if he has, he knows what kind of handspeed Liston had.

And you say that everyone was scared to fight Liston? What about Tyson? Spinks was ****ing terrified of Tyson, and people praise Tyson for KO'ing him. Patterson wasn't scared of Liston at all, and hit with some good shots, but he was still knocked the **** out. TWICE.

Was Cleveland Williams scared of Liston? Williams hit Liston with some of the best punches I've ever seen, and Liston still KO'ed him. I can't recall Tyson doing that in his career.

I'll post the Bethea and Williams fights for anyone who disagrees with mine or Butterfly's posts. :boxing:
never seen it can you upload it for me

anyone who thinks tyson would beat ali is completly out of their mind. it wouldnt even be close. if anyone wants to debate on this let me know

Floyd Patterson said he didn't want to fight Liston. Read his biography. He flat out said, "I went out there in round one, and threw a few punches to see if I had a shot. When he started taking shots at me, I knew it was only a matter of time. Fortunately, I survived the first round."

The only reason Patterson took a rematch was because that was the thing to do. He was required to return to his gym; which he did immediately following his second round whoopin' at the hands of Liston, and prepare for a rematch. His trainers and friends assumed that this would happen. Liston was a monster, yes. But his ties to the mafia have been blatently evident since he started showing up on the boxing scene. I would still, definitely place him among my top 10. I've noticed that a lot of my complimentary remarks towards these other boxers gets overlooked and is then followed by retarded debates and cussing. I'm just trying to discuss a little hypothetical boxing.

Furthermore, the fighters in the 80's were a different breed. No longer did the heavyweight division consist of guys, wading across the ring to deliver blow after unforgiving blow. Every fighter at the top had to be conditioned for speed and power. In regards to Spinks...yes, he was terrified. As a result, he got flattened. Sounds a lot like Patterson vs. Liston. Spinks wanted nothing to do with a rematch, however, because it was clear that he was nowhere near Tyson's league.

This forum is the only one on the internet where the debaters are so hostile. You take everything personal and come back with comments that are intended to flame and nothing else. Check out 100 more websites with Tyson vs. Ali forums and you will find intelligent theories; like the ones I've presented; as well as positive interactions. The entire discussion really has to go farther than, "Ali made everyone look stupid..." or "Tyson would knock so-and-so out." The real boxing analysts, including the ones who get paid to discuss it for a living, realistically see that Tyson, while under Cuz Damato, was the single most amazing force the boxing world had ever seen. Now, because of guys like Don King, he's a criminal who's nothing more than a "would've, could've, should've" has been.

In answer to several of the repeated and rediculous questions, NO, Sonny Liston never bit anyone's ear in a fight. He just had a powdered solvent put on his gloves in his first fight with Ali. He also laundered hundreds of thousands of dollars and the mafia had paid quicker fighters before a substantial amount to lay down early. Not that Liston wouldn't have beat them anyway, but they got a little something-something for making it quick. It was later revealed, after Liston's funeral, that similar to Jack Dempsey, there was more than one fight that included a little plaster on the hand wraps to give his already potent punch something extra. Sonny was also later found dead on a floor. I would say, that while not as media-grabbing as Tyson's antics, Liston was still a pretty disturbed fellow. Liston's disturbance gradually came over time with a little assistance from a case of depression. Tyson was always a loose cannon, but under Cuz, he was disciplined. Unfortunately for himself and everyone he knew, that was a few short years.

I would also like to take this time to note that none of you guys seem to know how to have an engaging conversation. Instead, you like to take one line from a post, puke on it, and claim that because you have a hard on for Muhammad Ali that makes your statements correct; even though this is a debate of pure opinions. We can't have facts on a Tyson vs. Ali scenario since they never actually faced one another. As far as "Ali being tuned to fight guys like Mike Tyson.." that IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE! Cuz built Tyson to fight guys like Ali because he knew Tyson didn't have reach. Cuz knew Ali well and even worked with him on several occassions. When discussing with Ali a strategy for short fighters fighting against taller, faster fighters, Cuz brought in a sparring partner who tore into Ali's body with the techniques he came up with. Naturally, it was a sparring example, but it was later applied to Tyson. This being said, that STILL doesn't mean that I think Tyson would beat Ali up. I know, based on boxing history, theory, and technique, that it would have been far better a match than any Ali fan boy or Tyson fan boy would make it out to be.

Finally, I noticed how you carefully ignored the part where Floyd Patterson admitted to being afraid in his own book. That's proof. You just saying that he wasn't scared means that you're purposefully being ignorant. By definition, that's a stupid action. I know that you're smarter than that. Additionally, if you read Joe Frazier's book, as well as watch old interviews of Muhammad Ali during the 80's, Ali admits the following about Tyson when Tyson became champ: "...he's the kind of fighter that even I couldn't handle..." Enough said. Even so, READ THIS PART CAREFULLY: I STILL THINK ALI WOULD HAVE WON. Did you read that part this time?

never seen it can you upload it for me

Yea sure, but give me a couple of days, I got exams this week. :D

Floyd Patterson said he didn't want to fight Liston. Read his biography. He flat out said, "I went out there in round one, and threw a few punches to see if I had a shot. When he started taking shots at me, I knew it was only a matter of time. Fortunately, I survived the first round."

The only reason Patterson took a rematch was because that was the thing to do. He was required to return to his gym; which he did immediately following his second round whoopin' at the hands of Liston, and prepare for a rematch. His trainers and friends assumed that this would happen. Liston was a monster, yes. But his ties to the mafia have been blatently evident since he started showing up on the boxing scene. I would still, definitely place him among my top 10. I've noticed that a lot of my complimentary remarks towards these other boxers gets overlooked and is then followed by retarded debates and cussing. I'm just trying to discuss a little hypothetical boxing.

Furthermore, the fighters in the 80's were a different breed. No longer did the heavyweight division consist of guys, wading across the ring to deliver blow after unforgiving blow. Every fighter at the top had to be conditioned for speed and power. In regards to Spinks...yes, he was terrified. As a result, he got flattened. Sounds a lot like Patterson vs. Liston. Spinks wanted nothing to do with a rematch, however, because it was clear that he was nowhere near Tyson's league.

This forum is the only one on the internet where the debaters are so hostile. You take everything personal and come back with comments that are intended to flame and nothing else. Check out 100 more websites with Tyson vs. Ali forums and you will find intelligent theories; like the ones I've presented; as well as positive interactions. The entire discussion really has to go farther than, "Ali made everyone look stupid..." or "Tyson would knock so-and-so out." The real boxing analysts, including the ones who get paid to discuss it for a living, realistically see that Tyson, while under Cuz Damato, was the single most amazing force the boxing world had ever seen. Now, because of guys like Don King, he's a criminal who's nothing more than a "would've, could've, should've" has been.

In answer to several of the repeated and rediculous questions, NO, Sonny Liston never bit anyone's ear in a fight. He just had a powdered solvent put on his gloves in his first fight with Ali. He also laundered hundreds of thousands of dollars and the mafia had paid quicker fighters before a substantial amount to lay down early. Not that Liston wouldn't have beat them anyway, but they got a little something-something for making it quick. It was later revealed, after Liston's funeral, that similar to Jack Dempsey, there was more than one fight that included a little plaster on the hand wraps to give his already potent punch something extra. Sonny was also later found dead on a floor. I would say, that while not as media-grabbing as Tyson's antics, Liston was still a pretty disturbed fellow. Liston's disturbance gradually came over time with a little assistance from a case of depression. Tyson was always a loose cannon, but under Cuz, he was disciplined. Unfortunately for himself and everyone he knew, that was a few short years.

I would also like to take this time to note that none of you guys seem to know how to have an engaging conversation. Instead, you like to take one line from a post, puke on it, and claim that because you have a hard on for Muhammad Ali that makes your statements correct; even though this is a debate of pure opinions. We can't have facts on a Tyson vs. Ali scenario since they never actually faced one another. As far as "Ali being tuned to fight guys like Mike Tyson.." that IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE! Cuz built Tyson to fight guys like Ali because he knew Tyson didn't have reach. Cuz knew Ali well and even worked with him on several occassions. When discussing with Ali a strategy for short fighters fighting against taller, faster fighters, Cuz brought in a sparring partner who tore into Ali's body with the techniques he came up with. Naturally, it was a sparring example, but it was later applied to Tyson. This being said, that STILL doesn't mean that I think Tyson would beat Ali up. I know, based on boxing history, theory, and technique, that it would have been far better a match than any Ali fan boy or Tyson fan boy would make it out to be.

Finally, I noticed how you carefully ignored the part where Floyd Patterson admitted to being afraid in his own book. That's proof. You just saying that he wasn't scared means that you're purposefully being ignorant. By definition, that's a stupid action. I know that you're smarter than that. Additionally, if you read Joe Frazier's book, as well as watch old interviews of Muhammad Ali during the 80's, Ali admits the following about Tyson when Tyson became champ: "...he's the kind of fighter that even I couldn't handle..." Enough said. Even so, READ THIS PART CAREFULLY: I STILL THINK ALI WOULD HAVE WON. Did you read that part this time?

first of all that's called respect. second, i didn't actually say that tyson would be a cakewalk for ali. in fact if you read my other posts on other threads i said that holmes, frazier, and tyson would give ali trouble. it's just that i don't see tyson being victorious that's all. i see tyson giving ali some trouble in the early rounds, but ali would wear tyson down with his left jab, and by the later rounds tyson would be well spent and would most likely be ko'd or stopped in the later rounds. and that statement doesn't mean patterson was scared of liston, it just means he didn't think he would win. and if patterson was scared of liston, how come he wanted to fight liston a third time? "if i am successful with clay, then i would like to fight liston again."

That's a fair question. Chances are, if Patterson would have been successful against Clay/Ali, he would have had enough confidence, plus the support of the people who at the time, hated Ali, to challenge Liston again. By that stretch he would have hoped that depression had set in so far against Liston that it would have taken some of the edge off of his aggression. That was certainly the case as Liston did lose much of his enthusiasm before, and after his fights with Ali. Whether Floyd would have pulled off a win eventually...I don't know about that. Patterson did continue, during his description of his feelings about a fight with Liston, by stating that he was afraid of getting hurt. He said it caused him to lock up in the ring and he lost most of his movement and fluidity.

In regards to wearing Tyson down with a jab; that's something that was nigh impossible to do to him from 1985-1988. Ali never had to jab at a guy with Tyson's ability to move, duck, dodge, and explode. Joe Frazier was the closest similie, albeit a one-dimensional one, and Frazier gave Ali a whale of a time for three fights. That's why I have given Tyson one win out of three against Ali. Since this is obviously shaping up to be an argument in a vacuum, it's probably fruitless to continue beyond this point. I would like to say that I appreciate the change in tone you presented in your last statement. It's certainly better to discuss the matter this way than in the way that you and a few others were forwarding before. :boxing:

That's a fair question. Chances are, if Patterson would have been successful against Clay/Ali, he would have had enough confidence, plus the support of the people who at the time, hated Ali, to challenge Liston again. By that stretch he would have hoped that depression had set in so far against Liston that it would have taken some of the edge off of his aggression. That was certainly the case as Liston did lose much of his enthusiasm before, and after his fights with Ali. Whether Floyd would have pulled off a win eventually...I don't know about that. Patterson did continue, during his description of his feelings about a fight with Liston, by stating that he was afraid of getting hurt. He said it caused him to lock up in the ring and he lost most of his movement and fluidity.

In regards to wearing Tyson down with a jab; that's something that was nigh impossible to do to him from 1985-1988. Ali never had to jab at a guy with Tyson's ability to move, duck, dodge, and explode. Joe Frazier was the closest similie, albeit a one-dimensional one, and Frazier gave Ali a whale of a time for three fights. That's why I have given Tyson one win out of three against Ali. Since this is obviously shaping up to be an argument in a vacuum, it's probably fruitless to continue beyond this point. I would like to say that I appreciate the change in tone you presented in your last statement. It's certainly better to discuss the matter this way than in the way that you and a few others were forwarding before. :boxing:

just because a bunch of B and C class fighters couldn't do it, doesn't mean the greatest fighter to step in the ring couldn't. ali could wear anyone down with that jab, the fastest left jab in hw history! tyson's competition was to say the least "questionable" in his prime, if he fought ali, he wouldn't have looked that great. he would have gave him trouble in the early rounds, but he would have been frustrated cause he wasn't killing ali. i'll say this one thing. if tyson lost heart cause of cus death or firing rooney, then that only means he had the makings of having no heart all along. i suppose a fighter like prime ali would make even prime tyson give up with cus alive and rooney in the corner, cause if tyson was all heart to begin with, then he wouldn't have lost it so quickly by the time his real physical prime was about to begin at like 24. so ali would wear tyson down with that left jab and ko'd tyson IMO!

Yea, I mean, you can't just all of a sudden lose heart in an instant. Tyson never had heart to begin with.

That's why it's your "O" and not based on facts. You seem to make sweeping statements that sound definite, without giving any evidence that would support what you're saying. Just stating that "He was the best..." is an opinion, not a fact. Stating that "Tyson's competition was questionable..." is an opinion based on minimal observation, not a fact. Many professional boxing critics have stated that Tyson's era was full of fighters that, on average, were in far better condition than the 'average' fighter from the 60's and 70's. The big names from Ali's era were just that: the few who could wade through a paper thin field. And I guarantee you, the professional critics could run any of us on this website into the ground in a boxing debate.

Your arguments basically boil down to this: apples are better than oranges because I like the taste of apples better than oranges. Since that is your opinion, that doesn't make it true. Your opinion and my opinion don't matter if their wrong. The absolutes are as follows: Number 1. Ali had a great ability to avoid trouble. He never faced ANYONE who could cause as much trouble as Tyson. Number 2. Tyson was great against fast fighters who tried to avoid him. Chances are, he never faced ANYONE who was as good at it as Ali. Conclusion: There isn't a right answer to this scenario; only opinions and theories. Therefore, making definitive statements like the ones you make, only take away from your normally well-constructed arguments. Become more analytical, and not so biased.

Regardless of this, I'm still enjoying what information you do employ. :boxing:

That's why it's your "O" and not based on facts. You seem to make sweeping statements that sound definite, without giving any evidence that would support what you're saying. Just stating that "He was the best..." is an opinion, not a fact. Stating that "Tyson's competition was questionable..." is an opinion based on minimal observation, not a fact. Many professional boxing critics have stated that Tyson's era was full of fighters that, on average, were in far better condition than the 'average' fighter from the 60's and 70's. The big names from Ali's era were just that: the few who could wade through a paper thin field. And I guarantee you, the professional critics could run any of us on this website into the ground in a boxing debate.

Your arguments basically boil down to this: apples are better than oranges because I like the taste of apples better than oranges. Since that is your opinion, that doesn't make it true. Your opinion and my opinion don't matter if their wrong. The absolutes are as follows: Number 1. Ali had a great ability to avoid trouble. He never faced ANYONE who could cause as much trouble as Tyson. Number 2. Tyson was great against fast fighters who tried to avoid him. Chances are, he never faced ANYONE who was as good at it as Ali. Conclusion: There isn't a right answer to this scenario; only opinions and theories. Therefore, making definitive statements like the ones you make, only take away from your normally well-constructed arguments. Become more analytical, and not so biased.

Regardless of this, I'm still enjoying what information you do employ. :boxing:

I'm pretty sure Foreman could change the tide of a fight in just one second. So could Frazier? Don't believe me, Frazier turned a fight he was losing completely (Ellis I) to his favor with one punch.

A lot of guys could. I guess I don't see where this is going. Your statements are likely true though, skydog. :boxing:

I know, I was just saying that those two could do that and Ali fought them.

I guess the way I see it is simple:

Would Ali mess up Tyson? Probably.

Could Tyson have knocked Ali out? Yes. During the shooting star portion of his career. He wouldn't have been given too many opportunities in the ring, however.

Of course Tyson had the ability to knock Ali out. Tyson had the ability to KO anyone, though many fighters wouldn't allow that to happen.

I guess the way I see it is simple:

Would Ali mess up Tyson? Probably.

Could Tyson have knocked Ali out? Yes. During the shooting star portion of his career. He wouldn't have been given too many opportunities in the ring, however.

absolutely not. ali has a top 5 chin overall in boxing history! no way tyson could hurt him, if by chance ali got hit with a good shot.

tyson vs ali if tyson could catch ali he could kill him but in his prime he was so fast he would put the pitbull down n dats if he agreed to the match at all what with tyson biting people n all
tyson in a ring is like putting a bull dog in a tennis court and saying whoever gets the most balls wins he will bite the other guys nuts off
also tyson can knock down a brick wall with a punch ali couldn't but brick by brick that wall would come down and unlike tyson he would get hit by a single brick

tyson vs ali if tyson could catch ali he could kill him but in his prime he was so fast he would put the pitbull down n dats if he agreed to the match at all what with tyson biting people n all
tyson in a ring is like putting a bull dog in a tennis court and saying whoever gets the most balls wins he will bite the other guys nuts off
also tyson can knock down a brick wall with a punch ali couldn't but brick by brick that wall would come down and unlike tyson he would get hit by a single brick


whenever I saw ali cornered and no where to go while pressured. he had the look on his face like "o shit i'm ****ed" so if tyson cornered him then bye bye ali :D come on butterfly I know your comin next

whenever I saw ali cornered and no where to go while pressured. he had the look on his face like "o shit i'm ****ed" so if tyson cornered him then bye bye ali :D come on butterfly I know your comin next

if tyson hit him with a hard shot, ali would laugh in his face, then do the ali shuffle, then throw a quick one-two combiation followed by a hard right hook and floor tyson lol!

guys guys,,, we are talking about Leila Ali right? of course she could take tyson. why would you even ask. shes quicker, more powerful and has way better skill....its a Leila Ali victory in 5th round ko

guys guys,,, we are talking about Leila Ali right? of course she could take tyson. why would you even ask. shes quicker, more powerful and has way better skill....its a Leila Ali victory in 5th round ko

no, muhammad ali, idiot! :smashfrea

lol ...no really?
:p

He was joking man! lol

whenever I saw ali cornered and no where to go while pressured. he had the look on his face like "o shit i'm ****ed" so if tyson cornered him then bye bye ali :D come on butterfly I know your comin next

i fail to see how this contridicts my point

i fail to see how this contridicts my point

so, so true.

if tyson hit him with a hard shot, ali would laugh in his face, then do the ali shuffle, then throw a quick one-two combiation followed by a hard right hook and floor tyson lol!

Was Ali laughing at Joe Frazier's face? :confused:

Prime vs prime, I believe it would have been the worlds greatest fight. I can't really put my opinion down on what I think would have happened, but it would have been a great fight. I don't think Ali faced anyone as vicious as Tyson. If Mike was to win obviously it would have to be by KO.

I have to go with Ali beating him. He'd be too quick, he'd rope-a-dope him, then when Tyson's tired he'd knock him out. But then again Tyson would have a chance.

Was Ali laughing at Joe Frazier's face? :confused:

we're talking primes here.

I have to go with Ali beating him. He'd be too quick, he'd rope-a-dope him, then when Tyson's tired he'd knock him out. But then again Tyson would have a chance.
dont be stupid ali could not rope a dope tyson. tyson will knock him out.

dont be stupid ali could not rope a dope tyson. tyson will knock him out.

you're right, he wouldn't. he wouldn't need to. ali would shuffle him to death and despose of him like cleveland williams, lol!

If Ali can take Foremans punches, I'm sure he could easily take Tysons. Besides, Ali in his prime didn't use the rope a dope. He was fast, strong and dangerous in his prime, and he sure could take a punch!
Cassius Clay vs Tyson would be a huge laugh, Tyson would be out of breath trying to catch clay. This is how it would be;

Clay goes out to meet Tyson
and Tyson starts to retreat
if Tyson goes back any further
he'll end up in a ringside seat
clay swings with his left
clay swings with his right
look at the way young cassius carries the fight
Tyson keeps backin'
but there's not enough room
it's only a matter of time
before clay lowers the boom!

R.I.P Tyson

If Ali can take Foremans punches, I'm sure he could easily take Tysons. Besides, Ali in his prime didn't use the rope a dope. He was fast, strong and dangerous in his prime, and he sure could take a punch!
Cassius Clay vs Tyson would be a huge laugh, Tyson would be out of breath trying to catch clay. This is how it would be;

Clay goes out to meet Tyson
and Tyson starts to retreat
if Tyson goes back any further
he'll end up in a ringside seat
clay swings with his left
clay swings with his right
look at the way young cassius carries the fight
Tyson keeps backin'
but there's not enough room
it's only a matter of time
before clay lowers the boom!

R.I.P Tyson

depends on which clay you're talking about. if your talking about 18-20yr. old clay tyson would take him out within 4.

dont be stupid ali could not rope a dope tyson. tyson will knock him out.
why would he?

prime ali would dance not rope a dope.

if ali can take frazier and foremans punches he can take tyson`s punches

depends on which clay you're talking about. if your talking about 18-20yr. old clay tyson would take him out within 4.

I mean the Clay that took Liston or the Ali that took Williams.

Have any of you seen the Cleveland Williams fight? He couldn't touch Ali! lol

I mean the Clay that took Liston or the Ali that took Williams.
Have any of you seen the Cleveland Williams fight? He couldn't touch Ali! lol

oh, aaihgt. i was about to say!

Ali was too skinny and no match for Tyson's power. Look at what happened to Tyrell Biggs. Another undefeated flashy ass fighter untill he met a guy like Tyson. Ya'll say he couldn't catch Ali. Tyson was very fast and could get him with some punches. Frazier defeated Ali. Tyson could too.

Tyson KO3

Tyson KO3

You gotta be joking? Tyson knocking out the Greatest in 3 rounds? They all said Liston and Tyson (fighters bigger and stronger than Tyson) would destroy Ali in 1 round. They were proved greatly wrong.

Frazier beat a past his prime Ali and yet Ali beat frazier 2/3 times. Ali fought and beat people a lot tougher than Tyson.

Ali past his prime vs Frazier :lol1:
No he wasn't. Don't look at a scared to death Liston. Look at the attacking(less skilled than Tyson) Frazier who knocked him down and won the fight. So Tyson would probably knock Ali out.

Ali past his prime vs Frazier
No he wasn't.

Yes he was! He didn't dance anymore. He was in his prime in his mid 20s like when he fought Cleveland Williams etc. He was robbed 3 of his best boxing years when he was banned. When he fought Frazier he was past his best, slower and had to adapt his style.


Whether in his prime or not he'd of whupped Tyson.

So why do people say its okay for Ali to have a short prime but Tyson? He sucks!

Biased stuff.

Don't ask me that. I've always liked Tyson but I just don't think a match up with Ali suits him.

Yeah.
I don't know if Ali could mess up Tyson, but he could beat him, theres almost no doubt about that.

Yeah.
I don't know if Ali could mess up Tyson, but he could beat him, theres almost no doubt about that.


He would if he succesfully survived the first rounds of the fight and Tyson didn't hurt him then. Ali was more of a 10+round fighter while Mike Never boxed more than 12 rounds in a fight.

Cleveland Williams was shot (literally) before he fought Ali. He was in no condition to be fighting Ali.

I'm srry but if Ali fought a prime Tyson Ali would no longer be beautiful...

I'm srry but if Ali fought a prime Tyson Ali would no longer be beautiful...

You have to be joking!?!

He would if he succesfully survived the first rounds of the fight and Tyson didn't hurt him then. Ali was more of a 10+round fighter while Mike Never boxed more than 12 rounds in a fight.


Wich would never happen because Ali was never overwhelmed by an opponent. Especially not by the way Tyson always did. He controls the fight.

Agreed, Ali controlled almost all of his fights. If not all of them. He was superb. Tyson is a different fighter. Tyson has raw power, and raw combo speed. Ali was evasive, quick, and light on his feet. He was also nowhere near Tyson on terms of aggression.

Tyson is one swarming, power puncher that has no chance against Ali. He doesn't have the mental capacity to deal with someone as resourceful as Ali who would constantly adapt and neutralise him. Look at tyson when buster douglas used a simple stick and move, frustrated the shit out of him... ali would drive him nuts.

I would have loved to see the taunts that Ali would do against Tyson. That would be hilarious.

I would have loved to see the taunts that Ali would do against Tyson. That would be hilarious.

to see both of them go at it verbally would make for the greatest pre-fight build-up ever.

http://faculty.washington.edu/qtaylor/images/ali_muhammad.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000AVBUO.01-APOYQP6URUNWZ._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

So why do people say its okay for Ali to have a short prime but Tyson? He sucks!

Biased stuff.

because ali had a layoff and he came back at 28. tyson was 23 when he lost to douglass, and he didn't have a lay-off prior.

Ali was too skinny and no match for Tyson's power. Look at what happened to Tyrell Biggs. Another undefeated flashy ass fighter untill he met a guy like Tyson. Ya'll say he couldn't catch Ali. Tyson was very fast and could get him with some punches. Frazier defeated Ali. Tyson could too.

Tyson KO3

it took a prime holmes 11 rounds to stop ali, and ali had parkinson's disease, was like 40 years old, and he was on drugs. holmes is better than tyson. so tyson would stop a prime 25yr. ali in three, get out of here! ali is not terrel biggs you idiot! tyson is not as fast as ali, i've watched both of them fight. not only that, but the footage they used to film tyson is far superior to the footage used to film a prime ali, the tyson footage is like high-definition, and the ali footage is hisses and pops and also in black and white; fighters look faster and better in high-def than in b&w, and ali still looked somewhat faster IMO. ali would dance away at tyson's shots and hit him at will. i've seen countless fighters hit tyson who were way slower than ali, so forget about it. frazier barely beat ali when ali was slower and only fought less than 18 rounds in four years, and IMO frazier is better than tyson, not skill wise but had more heart and stamina and would beat tyson in the long run. so your explanation is mad retarded.

I absolutely agree with you butterfly. You are very intelligent when you don't talk about Bruce Lee. lol

to see both of them go at it verbally would make for the greatest pre-fight build-up ever.

http://faculty.washington.edu/qtaylor/images/ali_muhammad.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000AVBUO.01-APOYQP6URUNWZ._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

They wouldn't really have gone at it. Ali would have embarassed the shit out of Tyson verbally.

They wouldn't really have gone at it. Ali would have embarassed the shit out of Tyson verbally.

not really, tyson would have his moments, he would say ima eat your children or some crap like!

I absolutely agree with you butterfly. You are very intelligent when you don't talk about Bruce Lee. lol

haha very funny!! :D

not really, tyson would have his moments, he would say ima eat your children or some crap like!

And Ali would counter it with something hilarious. Tyson's "I'm gonna eat your children" crap may work against Lewis, but it wouldn't work against a verbal master like Ali.

tyson vs. ali would be like tyson vs. buster douglas, only tyson would get beat way worse against ali

Ali of 1967 - prime would likely overwhelm Tyson with speedy combos and TKO Tyson around round 6. 1970's Ali would likely take more punishment but still stop Tyson late in the fight.

Ali in his prime would deal with Tyson like he did with Liston. Ali later on in his career would have to weather the storm so to speak before getting the KO. I have visions of Rumble in the jungle.

If you saw the way Tyrell Biggs fought Tyson in the first round, thats pretty much how the hole fight would be, Tyson couldnt touch Biggs in the first round, but ali would be able to do it all night.

Ali had the reach , the height , the speed and the power to destroy mike.
At 5' 10" and stubby arms poor mike would wear himself out trying to hit ali,then it would be good nite mike.

just remeber guys ali has not faced anyone as explosive as a prime tyson and ali had a good long jab and tyson was a master of slipping jabs but then again ali would of broken him down mentally so ali in 5th round DQ im a tyson fan but

you guys need to break out some film of tyson in his prime, quick feet lightning fast hands and lots of head movement,tyson by tko in 10, the ref would have to stop it cause ali wouldnt quit. remember young tyson could go the distance if he had to, im talking 1986-1990


Anybody that picks Tyson to beat any great fighter by a late round stoppage is out there.


Ok I just broke out some old footage; here is Tyson vs Tony Tucker.

How in the world do you think that a boxer puncher like Tony Tucker survives a full length fight with Tyson, and Ali, a boxer puncher with ten times the skill and cunning dosen't survive it? Notice Tucker landing on Tyson early on.

How much faster and more skilled is Ali.

The problem with some Tyson fans is that they don't actually take into consideration who the man actually fought. They just mentally put a picture of any other great fighter's face on top of Steve Zouski's face and imagine Tyson doing the same thing to him.


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just remeber guys ali has not faced anyone as explosive as a prime tyson and ali had a good long jab and tyson was a master of slipping jabs but then again ali would of broken him down mentally so ali in 5th round DQ im a tyson fan but

Just remember Tyson never faced anyone as fast, skillful, or just anywhere near as GOOD as Ali. I would point out that Tyson was a master of slipping the lazy jabs of 80s Heavyweights who did not jab well or frequently. Douglas punished Tyson with his jab and Larry Holmes jabbed him effectively as well, Holmes' only problem was at his age with his deteriorating reflexes he couldn't keep it up for more than a few seconds at a time.

Poet

Anybody that picks Tyson to beat any great fighter by a late round stoppage is out there.

How in the world do you think that a boxer puncher like Tony Tucker survives a full length fight with Tyson, and Ali, a boxer puncher with ten times the skill and cunning dosen't survive it? Notice Tucker landing on Tyson early on.

Not to mention the fact that Tucker was a one-handed fighter from the second round on.

The problem with some Tyson fans is that they don't actually take into consideration who the man actually fought. They just mentally put a picture of any other great fighter's face on top of Steve Zouski's face and imagine Tyson doing the same thing to him.

Bingo! You just nailed it on head!

Poet

Ali by mind**** in the 10th.
Tyson was at his best in the days when Rooney was in his corner shouting out the numbers of the punches, by round 3 Ali would know them better than Tyson.
I can see where people compare Tyson to Frasier but the similarity is only in build, Frasier was a great inside fighter he would take 3 to get on the other guys chest then go to work. Tyson was suprisingly poor on the inside he got tied up by Bonecrusher amongst others.