I just got into a disagreement with someone about the United States being around forever. They said that the United States will always be a mighty nation because it was founded on God and no one can debase that. I disagreed because all mighty nations in the past have fallen at one time or another. Look at Rome, Egypt, to name a couple. Also, with the way that our country fights amongst ourselves, I dont see American being a leader forever.

What do you guys think?

It will fall one day

i think that we will eventually fall but not from outside powers but from our own internal conflict

It will fall one day...some other country is going to match our tech. and **** us up...


























she said, "suga free, you know anything about cars, honey?"
I said, yeah, you fill em up with hoes
take em to the hoes store
so they can get that money!

in regards to your friend's theory, just because a nation is founded on God doesn't mean that it will stand. the Bible consistently tells us (using Israel as an example) that a nation will crumble if it turns it's back on God.

tell your friend to read the books of Chronicles before making that call.

Nothing lasts forever, besides my undieing love for Kato

when did israel turn its back on god

Originally posted by Bzob^x0
Nothing lasts forever, besides my undieing love for Kato how sweet.

Originally posted by VulgarTheClown
when did israel turn its back on god


they actually did several times in the old testament

We'll probably fall and become enslaved by the technologically advanced alien invasion that is forthcoming.

Originally posted by Blue Dawg
We'll probably fall and become enslaved by the technologically advanced alien invasion that is forthcoming.

how original

Originally posted by VulgarTheClown
when did israel turn its back on god

only about 20 separate times throughout the Old Testement

where?

I know the Torah pretty well and there were not 20.

Empires eventually lose sight of its founding dream. The government will start to get comfortable in power and the people will no longer take it, some sort of inquisition ensues and we have an usurping of power. happened in France and in Rome. That or the US will have a schism that will divide the nation. Happened in England and Russia.

Originally posted by VulgarTheClown
where?

I know the Torah pretty well and there were not 20.

When God delivered them out of Egypt and showed them to the promise land, they turned their back on God because there were Giants in the land and they wandered in the desert for 40 years is one example

When Moses went to the mountain and they made a golden calf

Do you want all the times?

Originally posted by Bzob^x0
Nothing lasts forever, besides my undieing love for Kato

SMOOTH, very smooth playa.

Originally posted by Crystalline Dream
When God delivered them out of Egypt and showed them to the promise land, they turned their back on God because there were Giants in the land and they wandered in the desert for 40 years is one example


you must be reading a completely ****ed up book!

god took them out of egypt CORRECT but they wandered the desert for 40 years because god did not want those that had experienced such torment to enter the promised land. he wanted a new begining.

Moses was not allowed in because when god told him to ask the rock for water hit hit the rock instead cause he thought it foolish to talk to a rock.

that and Moses had nothign to do with the golden calf. Moses was getting the 10 commandments and Dathan gotthe gold from all to make the calf.

i think the original discussion was when did God allow israel to become overtaken as a nation for them turning their backs on him.
as mentioned in my very 1st post in this thread, read the books of Chronicles if you want examples of the various israelite kings who dismissed God for the worship of the baels and ashera poles, therefore cause multiple raids and eventual takeover from the babylonian nation.

Originally posted by VulgarTheClown
god took them out of egypt CORRECT but they wandered the desert for 40 years because god did not want those that had experienced such torment to enter the promised land. he wanted a new begining.

Wow. You are right, we must be reading totally different books.

I didn't know a country's destiny was based on the fact the it must not turn its back to God. Every civilization and country in the world goes through the same cycles since its begginings. We're experiencing the highest period of flourishment in the US, but this period like any other period it's gonna come to and end, and we will be replaced by another country as the no. 1 superpower, perhaps this country might be Japan, which was "re-born" after WWII

if you want further evidence then refer to the story of the fate of king saul and his son jonathon.
and if you want to see God's specific reaction to these actions then you can read every prophetic book listed in there such as ezekiel, jeremiah, issiah, etc. they all basically say the same thing.

It depends on the perception given to "mighty nation". I believe that the United States have been digging a whole for themselves for quite sometime. Morally it has been falling for sometime.

Originally posted by VulgarTheClown
god took them out of egypt CORRECT but they wandered the desert for 40 years because god did not want those that had experienced such torment to enter the promised land. he wanted a new begining.


that is not why they entered 40 years later.

Originally posted by Purity
that is not why they entered 40 years later.

This shows directly that we are infact reading different books.

I will not get into this cause conversations like this start mad problems, so I will agree to disagree and let us please not discuss this anymore.

Originally posted by The Ensanity
It will fall one day...some other country is going to match our tech. and **** us up...

nah, once the US finds out that any coountry would be close to making something that could harm them, they'll just go **** them up before they get the chance.

well it's up to you ben. you should know me by now and know that i would never fly off the handle over arguements. i actually enjoy posting like this but if you want to cut it short then i guess i will too.

I'll argue with you Purity

Originally posted by Purity
well it's up to you ben. you should know me by now and know that i would never fly off the handle over arguements. i actually enjoy posting like this but if you want to cut it short then i guess i will too.

I do not mind conversating about it but i'm already getting heated over it so i'm lettin it go.

ok kewl :) :) :)

wait a minute....weren't we agreeing the whole time?
find something for us to argue about!

Originally posted by Purity
ok kewl :) :) :)

wait a minute....weren't we agreeing the whole time?
find something for us to argue about!

I would say you should have died by now but you'd probably agree

Originally posted by Crystalline Dream
I just got into a disagreement with someone about the United States being around forever. They said that the United States will always be a mighty nation because it was founded on God and no one can debase that.

Phoenician and Egyptian culture were also founded on gods. We're still diggin them ****s up to this day. Tell your discussion buddy that he's a ****ing moron.

Originally posted by GhosT^x0
Phoenician and Egyptian culture were also founded on gods. We're still diggin them ****s up to this day. Tell your discussion buddy that he's a ****ing moron.


people tend to think it's different when it's THEIR god you are talking about

Originally posted by VulgarTheClown
I do not mind conversating about it but i'm already getting heated over it so i'm lettin it go.

well it's not really a matter of how someone interprets it. it's written in clear english.
so you go find the verse that says specifically how God prevented the original exiles from entering the promised land because they had experienced such torment and he wanted a fresh beginning

you do that and when i get home, i'll find the exact scripture/s that point in reference to the orginal exiles not being allowed access to the promised land because they lost their faith in God throughout the trip, therefore angering him, and causing them not to be able to have access to it.

i could be wrong. i haven't read Exodus in about 6 months so maybe i am. let's find out...

God or no god. The meaning of life becomes a little less succinct when you learn to accept scientific explanations over fatihful assumptions. For him to say that any god, or faith in any god, can make a people infallable... that's just stupid.

Originally posted by Purity
i could be wrong. i haven't read Exodus in about 6 months so maybe i am. let's find out...

It's in Numbers.

You are wrong. :devil

Originally posted by GhosT^x0
God or no god. The meaning of life becomes a little less succinct when you learn to accept scientific explanations over fatihful assumptions. For him to say that any god, or faith in any god, can make a people infallable... that's just stupid.

i disagree. the Bible has never changed. science once concluded that the earth was flat and was also the center of the universe.

Originally posted by Crystalline Dream
It's in Numbers.

You are wrong. :devil

i believe it's referred to several times but i don't have my Bible with me right now so i can't check. hold that thought Crystal....

Originally posted by Purity
i believe it's referred to several times but i don't have my Bible with me right now so i can't check. hold that thought Crystal....

How long am I holding this ****ing thing?

Originally posted by Purity
i disagree. the Bible has never changed. science once concluded that the earth was flat and was also the center of the universe.

... but science has also offered us more explanations on the origins of life and the process of evolution than the bible has. I didn't say science was right... I just put it out there as an alternative to the whole god thing.

Even if you don’t believe in God, do you really believe evolution as an alternative? Science itself has disproved several pieces of evidence that was used to support that theory.

science IS, in fact an alternative, but a faulty one IMO.

science makes it possible for the natural human way of thinking to comprehend and accept whatever it states.

the God thing requires faith and if you don't have faith from the start then some of the beliefs that are stated in the Bible are going to seem quite silly. but doesn't mean that it hasn't offered the explanations that you're searching for. it simply means that it isn't giving you the answer that you want to hear.

science has allowed mankind to process information faster, make more money, build better bombs, and entertain ourselves in multiple manners. what it HASN'T done is give people spiritual peace of mind. it also hasn't taught us how to treat other people in regards to love, respect, and honor- values that REALLY matter to a civilization.

the basis of this thread stated that a country would survive regardless as long as it was founded on God and his beliefs. wrong!
but a country WILL survive and thrive if it's not only founded, but continues to adhere to God and his beliefs. this country was founded on God and, up until the last few decades, has held very strongly to those beliefs. it has been successful up until the last few decades too.
now it IS showing signs of falling.

Science as I see it is the process of absolutely understanding. Religion is all about absolutely believing. I'm not saying either one is right or wrong... but they both indeed "are", and that was my point.

Originally posted by GhosT^x0
Science as I see it is the process of absolutely understanding.

i see it as justifying whatever our minds piece together for the time being.

Originally posted by GhosT^x0
Science as I see it is the process of absolutely understanding. Religion is all about absolutely believing.

well said, because if you go too far to either side you become unbalanced and go way the **** out there.

I agree with Purity that faith is important, if not vital to a thriving country, but I also agree that you can't completely throw out Science because of this. Science has given us great things, and Faith has shown us great things.

It's neat when you can jump into a debate and be right without pissing anyone off or being wrong or sparking ****.

I don't have the mental prowess to be discussing this today. My hand is smashed, I'm planning on getting more trashed when I get home, and I'm looking forward to stripping down to nothing and laying in my AC'ed room for the next 4 hours more than I'm looking forward to debating religion with my friends.

Might swim, too.

i'm gonna drink petron again :)

isn't petron oil?

i think that's petroleum

pet·rol
n.
Gasoline.


nevermind

Pa - tron = expensive Tekillya (tequila)

thank you dave.
damn you crystal.
**** you tony.

damn you! I hope a trucker takes you out on the way home

http://www.ehowa.com/picx/masterssign.jpg

ROLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!