i believe the greatest australian champion ever was kostya tzyua even though he wasnt ours he is one of the most underated boxers in history

who do u believe the greatest australian champ ofall time is??

i'd have to say kostya.. and yes in my opinion we can count him

fought and beat a slew of world champions.. unified the division with all wins by knockout.. ranked the best 140 pounder of all time

i dont know enough about the old school but he's my pick


les darcy would have been!

umm, I'd have to go with Anthony Mundine.
Current world champion, and soon to be 2division world champion.

umm, I'd have to go with Anthony Mundine.
Current world champion, and soon to be 2division world champion.

LMFAO!

Sorry state of affairs if he is...

Jeff Fenech anyone???.

LMFAO!

Sorry state of affairs if he is...

Jeff Fenech anyone???.

come on man, he is a true champion..
fought everybody out there! GREEN , solimon, kessler, sica, echols, he has a true heart, very courageous.
Doesn't fight nobodies, and always entertains the aussie public.
He is a mexican like fighter..

come on man, he is a true champion..
fought everybody out there! GREEN , solimon, kessler, sica, echols, he has a true heart, very courageous.
Doesn't fight nobodies, and always entertains the aussie public.
He is a mexican like fighter..

LOL, i had to read it twice to see if you were being sarcastic or deluded.

Please tell me you were being sarcastic.

LOL, i had to read it twice to see if you were being sarcastic or deluded.

Please tell me you were being sarcastic.

what do u think?:)

Sarcasm...but you never know some Aussies can be very stubborn. Like Ultimateboxa he loves Anthony Mundine.

Sarcasm...but you never know some Aussies can be very stubborn. Like Ultimateboxa he loves Anthony Mundine.

Yea I know he loves him, but I can understand why.
He is very compassionate, and loves aussie boxers, and there doesn't seem to be many who are the top level..
We have a very small pool of fighters.

Sarcasm...but you never know some Aussies can be very stubborn. Like Ultimateboxa he loves Anthony Mundine.

He actually is Anthony Mundine.

Jeff Fenech, Jimmy Carruthers, Barry Michael, Johnny Famechon, Lionel Rose. These guys are Australian Boxing 'Pioneers' hands down! These guys are cut from a different cloth!

umm, I'd have to go with Anthony Mundine.
Current world champion, and soon to be 2division world champion.

That's VERY funny tilley! Champ of the 'Cab' World! Are you part of Mundine's PR group???

haha no mundine doesnt fight nobodies............ he wastes his talent and is running out of time if you ask me, hes gotta officially call out mikkel kessler, edison miranda, kelly pavlik,or jeff lacy

That's VERY funny tilley! Champ of the 'Cab' World! Are you part of Mundine's PR group???

As a Mundine fan i know your joking.

Mundine beat Echolls for a vacant title. When Ottke was super champion.

Mundine beat Soliman for a vacant title when Kessler was super champion.

(Vacant titles, mean nothing)

As for my choice. My heart would like to go with Fenech for how he fought, similar to Morales, my favourite fighter.

But my head says Lionel Rose.

As a Mundine fan i know your joking.

Mundine beat Echolls for a vacant title. When Ottke was super champion.

Mundine beat Soliman for a vacant title when Kessler was super champion.

(Vacant titles, mean nothing)

As for my choice. My heart would like to go with Fenech for how he fought, similar to Morales, my favourite fighter.

But my head says Lionel Rose.

I'd go with Rose, look at how he won he's world title.

I'd go with Rose, look at how he won he's world title.

Yeh some SD's and MD's over fifteen rounds. He had heart. Read boxrec where he beat Castillo it says. "started a riot, fires were set, debris thrown in the ring, and cars over turned in the parking lot, lol.

As a Mundine fan i know your joking.

Mundine beat Echolls for a vacant title. When Ottke was super champion.

Mundine beat Soliman for a vacant title when Kessler was super champion.

(Vacant titles, mean nothing)

As for my choice. My heart would like to go with Fenech for how he fought, similar to Morales, my favourite fighter.

But my head says Lionel Rose.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Mundine's style is good to watch and the guy can fight. He has good skills, speed and underated defence! How he goes around calling himself P4P no.1 is ridiculous when he fights mediocre opposition. Saying he's the greatest athlete this, greatest athlete that.... The guy's been saying for the last four years he wants to fight the best of the SMW division. The guy should stop acting like some kind of arrogant prick, knuckle down, head to the US and fight the best, NOW! He's wasting time fighting Hamden, this is what I mean that he's defending his 'Paper Machie Title' against hacks! He should have fought Hamden two weeks to a month after beating Clavero if he needed another tune-up fight and not waste four months preparing for Hamden. Let's say he fought and beat Hamden a month after Clavero, Choc would have been unifying against another alphabet title holder then fight Calzaghe or Kessler for undisputed SMW Title in middle of the 2008. Big fights aren't made every month so Mundine needs to stop wasting his talents and time fighting below-par opposition.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Mundine's style is good to watch and the guy can fight. He has good skills, speed and underated defence! How he goes around calling himself P4P no.1 is ridiculous when he fights mediocre opposition. Saying he's the greatest athlete this, greatest athlete that.... The guy's been saying for the last four years he wants to fight the best of the SMW division. The guy should stop acting like some kind of arrogant prick, knuckle down, head to the US and fight the best, NOW! He's wasting time fighting Hamden, this is what I mean that he's defending his 'Paper Machie Title' against hacks! He should have fought Hamden two weeks to a month after beating Clavero if he needed another tune-up fight and not waste four months preparing for Hamden. Let's say he fought and beat Hamden a month after Clavero, Choc would have been unifying against another alphabet title holder then fight Calzaghe or Kessler for undisputed SMW Title in middle of the 2008. Big fights aren't made every month so Mundine needs to stop wasting his talents and time fighting below-par opposition.

Even though i didn't post about Mundine it was about Lionel Rose, who was great.

I agree with all you have to say. The sad thing is, if Mundine fights aggressively he can beat all the top guys, Pavlik, Taylor. I think stye wise, being a big believer in styles make fights, he could give Calzaghe his closest fight. The sad thing is, we will never know or see this, because he fights bums.

But just reading Lionel Rose's boxrec is a good indication of the heart he had. Floored in the middle rounds and then going 15 to win a world title. Awesome

I think I would still go with Fenech. He held three..well, four world titles in different divisions really. He fought the best guys out there at the time, some of which happened to be HOF and truly incredible boxers. He himself should be considered, without a doubt, as one of the best Featherweight fighters ever. Undefeated until second fight with Nelson when he had lost his determination from the robbery that would have given him his fourth world title in his fourth weight division! The guy was pretty special. Fought Carlos Zarate(66-2), Daniel Zaragoza(28-3), Shingaki for the IBF bantanweight title in only his eighth bout!!!, Samart Payakaroon (14-0), Victor Callejas (24-1), Marcos Villasana (49-6), Mario Martinez (48-5), Azumah Nelson (34-2), Greg Richardson (22-2) and despite what some think he really only lost to the absolute best out there at the time even though he had gone to complete ****! Nelson, Calvin Grove and Phillip Holiday. Those guys on his resume are all HOF type fighters. Very underrated is Fenech.

Les Darcy is like the Sal Sanchez of Australia. So much damn potential. Potential to be one of the greatest fighters ever period! In the top three!

Lionel Rose was brilliant. A great boxer with a ton of heart. As was Johnny Famechon. Actually if Famechon had only had a tiny bit more power he could have been an absolutely stunning fighter. Now one thing I would like to ask you guys who have also studies Aussie fighters...Why has our level of fight skills dropped? Check out Famechon and Rose. They're brilliant boxers who both have fantastic defense, similar to what everyone sees with Mayweather today, especially Famechon! He was a real defensive genius. Ducking and slipping and blocking by rolling over his shoulder. He was great...so what happened in the years since? We have hardly seen anyone with skills that are comparable in terms of pure boxing. Apart from Mundine now but he still hasn't even won one legitimate world title!!!

Then we have guys like Lester Ellis, Barry Michael, Curruthers, etc who were all very great but not in the top WORLD class of fighters or the best out there in the world at the time. Certainly Australia's best fighters but not the worlds best like Fenech, Tszyu, Rose, Famechon etc.

Now about Tszyu. He is up there with Fenech as the best Australia has produced. But, the only problem I see with this is that I truly believe he would have been even better had he stayed in Russia. Have you guys seen many of his amateur fights? Not just his Forrest one? He was the best amateur fighter I have ever seen! He had everything. Stunning speed which he lost here, great boxing movement with fantastic defense (his head movement was incredible! which again he lost here) great power etc. He really did seem to lose a lot of his pure boxing skills when he came out here. He was so fast and had such fantastic head movement and defense. The thing which he kept was his power obviously and his will but I do think if he had had a better boxing coach he could have been undoubtedly one of the best fighters ever! Lewis is a great trainer but I think he is better suited to the classic Fenech type fighter. Pure determined grit with freak fitness etc. What do you guys think?

I think I would still go with Fenech. He held three..well, four world titles in different divisions really. He fought the best guys out there at the time, some of which happened to be HOF and truly incredible boxers. He himself should be considered, without a doubt, as one of the best Featherweight fighters ever. Undefeated until second fight with Nelson when he had lost his determination from the robbery that would have given him his fourth world title in his fourth weight division! The guy was pretty special. Fought Carlos Zarate(66-2), Daniel Zaragoza(28-3), Shingaki for the IBF bantanweight title in only his eighth bout!!!, Samart Payakaroon (14-0), Victor Callejas (24-1), Marcos Villasana (49-6), Mario Martinez (48-5), Azumah Nelson (34-2), Greg Richardson (22-2) and despite what some think he really only lost to the absolute best out there at the time even though he had gone to complete ****! Nelson, Calvin Grove and Phillip Holiday. Those guys on his resume are all HOF type fighters. Very underrated is Fenech.

Les Darcy is like the Sal Sanchez of Australia. So much damn potential. Potential to be one of the greatest fighters ever period! In the top three!

Lionel Rose was brilliant. A great boxer with a ton of heart. As was Johnny Famechon. Actually if Famechon had only had a tiny bit more power he could have been an absolutely stunning fighter. Now one thing I would like to ask you guys who have also studies Aussie fighters...Why has our level of fight skills dropped? Check out Famechon and Rose. They're brilliant boxers who both have fantastic defense, similar to what everyone sees with Mayweather today, especially Famechon! He was a real defensive genius. Ducking and slipping and blocking by rolling over his shoulder. He was great...so what happened in the years since? We have hardly seen anyone with skills that are comparable in terms of pure boxing. Apart from Mundine now but he still hasn't even won one legitimate world title!!!

Then we have guys like Lester Ellis, Barry Michael, Curruthers, etc who were all very great but not in the top WORLD class of fighters or the best out there in the world at the time. Certainly Australia's best fighters but not the worlds best like Fenech, Tszyu, Rose, Famechon etc.

Now about Tszyu. He is up there with Fenech as the best Australia has produced. But, the only problem I see with this is that I truly believe he would have been even better had he stayed in Russia. Have you guys seen many of his amateur fights? Not just his Forrest one? He was the best amateur fighter I have ever seen! He had everything. Stunning speed which he lost here, great boxing movement with fantastic defense (his head movement was incredible! which again he lost here) great power etc. He really did seem to lose a lot of his pure boxing skills when he came out here. He was so fast and had such fantastic head movement and defense. The thing which he kept was his power obviously and his will but I do think if he had had a better boxing coach he could have been undoubtedly one of the best fighters ever! Lewis is a great trainer but I think he is better suited to the classic Fenech type fighter. Pure determined grit with freak fitness etc. What do you guys think?

That is a great post Benny. Great effort. Top Post. Karma given.

That is a great post Benny. Great effort. Top Post. Karma given.

Cheers brother! I'm diggin' your website.

bennyst.. excellent post..

kostya's amateur record speaks for itself. over 250 wins with only 11 losses. that's phenomenal. maybe the skill and pure boxing ability would have risen to greater heights had he stayed but the opportunities and international aclaim would have been near to impossible to gain.

probably the most frustrating thing to me on boxing sites is just how underrated kostya is. how many times do you hear from some ignorant yank about how he would have been blown away in 2 by floyd or sweet pea. infuriating

fuk oath mate it pisses me off 2

bennyst.. excellent post..

kostya's amateur record speaks for itself. over 250 wins with only 11 losses. that's phenomenal. maybe the skill and pure boxing ability would have risen to greater heights had he stayed but the opportunities and international aclaim would have been near to impossible to gain.

probably the most frustrating thing to me on boxing sites is just how underrated kostya is. how many times do you hear from some ignorant yank about how he would have been blown away in 2 by floyd or sweet pea. infuriating

Yes, indeed. The guy was a freak especially in his amateur days. I really can't remember seeing a better fighter than him in the amateurs. Even in his peak in the pro ranks when he was fighting Gonzalez he was just stunning in that fight! His best pro performance I think.

I completely agree also about not having the opportunities or getting the recognition if he stayed there. So I guess in a way it was the best thing for him but sometimes I just wonder....? You know, what could have been?

Well man, what can you expect? He was Russian/Australian! Ain't no fighter who's Russian/Aussie going to be able to beat anyone from America!:ugh:
Jeez man, what are you thinking?!;)

If I had to pick one it would be Fenech! This guy captivated the Australian people's attention like no other Australian fighter has. His rise to the top was was meteoric and the way he got there coming from nothing is also inspiring! He was a flat-out fighter who would never take his foot off the gas. Fenech only fought the best and even KO'd them with broken hands. Fenech's performance against Victor Callejas is one of my all time favourite fights. It was a 'War' and one of the dirtiest fights in Boxing History. Something Greb and Zivic would have been proud of! Won his first Title in a record 196 days after turning pro and took Shingaki to school twice. Absolutely 'murdered' Payakarun, 'Flea' Richardson was ready to have a cardiac and clearly didn't want to be in there with Fenech. Go Go Navaro got his ass kicked bad after coming over here to Oz and running his mouth and got taken home in a pine box. Even took apart Zaragoza in his prime and stopped the murderous punching Zararte. He iced Jerome Coffee. Fenech got 'robbed' which has to go down with Walcott getting robbed against Louis as one of the worst robberies in Boxing History, hands down! Nelson had the wobbles bad and anyone that believes that Malaria **** is dreaming! The doctor checks fighters condition before the fight and there'd be no way they'd let Azumah fight if they found Malaria. Azumah just got outmuscled and outhustled by the Marrickville Mauler. Fenech had an iron jaw to go with his swarming style. That uppercut he took from Callejas would have flatened most Light Heavies. Callejas used that same uppercut to smash Steccas jaw! None of you guys seem to give Jimmy 'Lefty' Carruthers any recognition??? Our first ever Boxing World Champ! Jimmy went over to South Africa and put that guy to sleep quick and in front of his own people! The guy was a cagey, murderous southpaw and had that lean, mean build like the Old School warriors used to have. Lionel Rose and Barry Michael were as 'tough' as they came. It took Lester Ellis to finally give Michael a shot at his title cos no other Champion would so that's telling you something about the guy.

If I had to pick one it would be Fenech! This guy captivated the Australian people's attention like no other Australian fighter has. His rise to the top was was meteoric and the way he got there coming from nothing is also inspiring! He was a flat-out fighter who would never take his foot off the gas. Fenech only fought the best and even KO'd them with broken hands. Fenech's performance against Victor Callejas is one of my all time favourite fights. It was a 'War' and one of the dirtiest fights in Boxing History. Something Greb and Zivic would have been proud of! Won his first Title in a record 196 days after turning pro and took Shingaki to school twice. Absolutely 'murdered' Payakarun, 'Flea' Richardson was ready to have a cardiac and clearly didn't want to be in there with Fenech. Go Go Navaro got his ass kicked bad after coming over here to Oz and running his mouth and got taken home in a pine box. Even took apart Zaragoza in his prime and stopped the murderous punching Zararte. He iced Jerome Coffee. Fenech got 'robbed' which has to go down with Walcott getting robbed against Louis as one of the worst robberies in Boxing History, hands down! Nelson had the wobbles bad and anyone that believes that Malaria **** is dreaming! The doctor checks fighters condition before the fight and there'd be no way they'd let Azumah fight if they found Malaria. Azumah just got outmuscled and outhustled by the Marrickville Mauler. Fenech had an iron jaw to go with his swarming style. That uppercut he took from Callejas would have flatened most Light Heavies. Callejas used that same uppercut to smash Steccas jaw! None of you guys seem to give Jimmy 'Lefty' Carruthers any recognition??? Our first ever Boxing World Champ! Jimmy went over to South Africa and put that guy to sleep quick and in front of his own people! The guy was a cagey, murderous southpaw and had that lean, mean build like the Old School warriors used to have. Lionel Rose and Barry Michael were as 'tough' as they came. It took Lester Ellis to finally give Michael a shot at his title cos no other Champion would so that's telling you something about the guy.

Because Australia had no one else in sight at the time.

Because Australia had no one else in sight at the time.

Sounds like you don't really like Fenech?

Anyway, great post Brunswick Assassin! Very true. Agree with everything you said. Fenech was an amazing fighter and true champion. One of the best ever featherweights!

Kostya :boxing:

Sounds like you don't really like Fenech?

Anyway, great post Brunswick Assassin! Very true. Agree with everything you said. Fenech was an amazing fighter and true champion. One of the best ever featherweights!

Fenech's a dirt bag as a person. He was a fighter, he didn't have great boxing ability. But the fought hard and never died wondering, which I like. Rose would have beaten him, double left hook followed by a right cross.

Fenech's a dirt bag as a person. He was a fighter, he didn't have great boxing ability. But the fought hard and never died wondering, which I like. Rose would have beaten him, double left hook followed by a right cross.

Hes very smart. Worth a few million. Probably a millionaire. And he steals 2, $200 watches. LMAO. Priceless.

Fenech's a dirt bag as a person. He was a fighter, he didn't have great boxing ability. But the fought hard and never died wondering, which I like. Rose would have beaten him, double left hook followed by a right cross.

Come on Brently! It's one thing not to like Fenech as a person but you can't bag his boxing ability. Fenech is the most famous and successful World Champion Australia has ever produced. Rose would never have beaten Fenech in any era and that's a fact! As I've said previously he ducked no one and flatened virtually every opponent he got in the ring with. The guy also had a huge heart. Jeff Harding was jealous of the attention Fenech was getting from the public and Johnny Lewis purposely put Harding ahead of Fenech during training so Harding wouldn't get sour grapes. Harding walked out of Lewis' gym without explaining what the problem was which tells you something. Every single person f**** up in their lives at some stage but Fenech will be forgiven for his past mistakes in time because he's done so much inside and outside the ring.

Because Australia had no one else in sight at the time.

I didn't expect this kind of 'hollow' reply from you Brently!

Come on Brently! It's one thing not to like Fenech as a person but you can't bag his boxing ability. Fenech is the most famous and successful World Champion Australia has ever produced. Rose would never have beaten Fenech in any era and that's a fact! As I've said previously he ducked no one and flatened virtually every opponent he got in the ring with. The guy also had a huge heart. Jeff Harding was jealous of the attention Fenech was getting from the public and Johnny Lewis purposely put Harding ahead of Fenech during training so Harding wouldn't get sour grapes. Harding walked out of Lewis' gym without explaining what the problem was which tells you something. Every single person f**** up in their lives at some stage but Fenech will be forgiven for his past mistakes in time because he's done so much inside and outside the ring.
Harding didn't get the accolades he deserved, he had more heart than Fenech IMO, just watch his world title win against Andries, if there was ever a definition of heart that last round would be in the dictionary.

Harding also had some seriously ****ed up things go his way as well which didn't help his cause. He employed a builder to renovate his house, then the builder subsequently started ****ing his wife and the wife broke off their marriage and Jeff lost everything. Downward spiral into booze and depression which ****ed his career.

Lovely guy Jeff, I've had a few chats with him on occasions, some people shouldn't drink though and he fits into that category.

Fenech on the other hand had everything go his way. Life is funny like that sometimes.

Come on Brently! It's one thing not to like Fenech as a person but you can't bag his boxing ability. Fenech is the most famous and successful World Champion Australia has ever produced. Rose would never have beaten Fenech in any era and that's a fact! As I've said previously he ducked no one and flatened virtually every opponent he got in the ring with. The guy also had a huge heart. Jeff Harding was jealous of the attention Fenech was getting from the public and Johnny Lewis purposely put Harding ahead of Fenech during training so Harding wouldn't get sour grapes. Harding walked out of Lewis' gym without explaining what the problem was which tells you something. Every single person f**** up in their lives at some stage but Fenech will be forgiven for his past mistakes in time because he's done so much inside and outside the ring.

I stopped reading after that. "FACT".

Harding didn't get the accolades he deserved, he had more heart than Fenech IMO, just watch his world title win against Andries, if there was ever a definition of heart that last round would be in the dictionary.

Harding also had some seriously ****ed up things go his way as well which didn't help his cause. He employed a builder to renovate his house, then the builder subsequently started ****ing his wife and the wife broke off their marriage and Jeff lost everything. Downward spiral into booze and depression which ****ed his career.

Lovely guy Jeff, I've had a few chats with him on occasions, some people shouldn't drink though and he fits into that category.

Fenech on the other hand had everything go his way. Life is funny like that sometimes.

At lest you can see it how it really is. Thanks for the post.

Harding didn't get the accolades he deserved, he had more heart than Fenech IMO, just watch his world title win against Andries, if there was ever a definition of heart that last round would be in the dictionary.

Harding also had some seriously ****ed up things go his way as well which didn't help his cause. He employed a builder to renovate his house, then the builder subsequently started ****ing his wife and the wife broke off their marriage and Jeff lost everything. Downward spiral into booze and depression which ****ed his career.
Lovely guy Jeff, I've had a few chats with him on occasions, some people shouldn't drink though and he fits into that category.

Fenech on the other hand had everything go his way. Life is funny like that sometimes.

If this is true then it's really sad. Jeff's come from behind win over Dennis Andries was inspiring stuff then his wife does that to him and then all the booze and depression problems that come with it. Everybody handles their problems differently I suppose. Fighters seem to be the most hard done by athletes once they retire. Joe Louis, Emile Griffith, Tyson to name a few met the same kind of fates. It's sad but true.

I've always found it kind of funny when people expect fighters to be great people and have stellar lives and be the perfect role model. They're boxers for Christs sake! Fighters! They make their living by being better than anyone else at punching someone in the face for half an hour!!! You can't expect them to be the perfect role model citizen. They're not business men or entrepreneurs or scientists! To be the best you have to have some serious anger and the possibility of doing great violence to someone who hasn't done a damn thing to you.

Brently: Why do you like other boxers but not Fenech. Do you seriously think the boxers you prefer are great people. To use 'he's a bad person' as an excuse to why you don't like him is weak. You like Mayweather? Corrales? McCallum? Tyson? Hopkins? Foreman? Whitaker? Monzon? etc etc and etc.

Sorry mate, not meaning to come across as a prick but you see where I'm coming from? Fenech stealing watches or whatever is **** all compared to what all those guys listed above have done. Shooting your wife in the face, beating up your children's mother, rolling people in the street. It goes on and on through the history of boxing. During their reign or especially after it most boxers become pretty ****ed up and do some pretty damn stupid things. From your pretty boy's like Leonard and Mayweather to your complete nutcases like Monzon, Pryor.

Fenech was a great champion with a true champions heart in the ring just like Harding (his first with Andries is without a doubt one of the most spectacular pieces of pure grit, determination and heart ever seen in the ring) and you have to look at the big picture and see these guys as sportsmen and look at what they have done for the sport instead of looking at them as people and judging them based on that. If you judge every boxer you like on who they are as people outside the ring, the list of fighters you come up with as great people is going to be very, very short.

I remember when I was training years ago and met him. He was a very nice and humble man. Happy to chat and talk about his career with no sense of anger or arrogance. One thing I did ask him about, which I had always wondered, was his downfall after the first Nelson fight. He said simply that after he had done everything he could possibly do to win the fight, it was taken away from him not by his opponent but by people who had nothing to do with the fight. The corrupt judges and promoters. He said that after he had put his whole life and soul into that fight, only to have it taken away like that, just robbed him of the determination to train like that again. He said that after that he hated the gym and couldn't put everything into training anymore. Once that happened, it was over for him.

I've always found it kind of funny when people expect fighters to be great people and have stellar lives and be the perfect role model. They're boxers for Christs sake! Fighters! They make their living by being better than anyone else at punching someone in the face for half an hour!!! You can't expect them to be the perfect role model citizen. They're not business men or entrepreneurs or scientists! To be the best you have to have some serious anger and the possibility of doing great violence to someone who hasn't done a damn thing to you.

Brently: Why do you like other boxers but not Fenech. Do you seriously think the boxers you prefer are great people. To use 'he's a bad person' as an excuse to why you don't like him is weak. You like Mayweather? Corrales? McCallum? Tyson? Hopkins? Foreman? Whitaker? Monzon? etc etc and etc.

Sorry mate, not meaning to come across as a prick but you see where I'm coming from? Fenech stealing watches or whatever is **** all compared to what all those guys listed above have done. Shooting your wife in the face, beating up your children's mother, rolling people in the street. It goes on and on through the history of boxing. During their reign or especially after it most boxers become pretty ****ed up and do some pretty damn stupid things. From your pretty boy's like Leonard and Mayweather to your complete nutcases like Monzon, Pryor.

Fenech was a great champion with a true champions heart in the ring just like Harding (his first with Andries is without a doubt one of the most spectacular pieces of pure grit, determination and heart ever seen in the ring) and you have to look at the big picture and see these guys as sportsmen and look at what they have done for the sport instead of looking at them as people and judging them based on that. If you judge every boxer you like on who they are as people outside the ring, the list of fighters you come up with as great people is going to be very, very short.

I remember when I was training years ago and met him. He was a very nice and humble man. Happy to chat and talk about his career with no sense of anger or arrogance. One thing I did ask him about, which I had always wondered, was his downfall after the first Nelson fight. He said simply that after he had done everything he could possibly do to win the fight, it was taken away from him not by his opponent but by people who had nothing to do with the fight. The corrupt judges and promoters. He said that after he had put his whole life and soul into that fight, only to have it taken away like that, just robbed him of the determination to train like that again. He said that after that he hated the gym and couldn't put everything into training anymore. Once that happened, it was over for him.

Excellent post Benny! Given Jeff's success he never showed any arrogance and always had time for people from all walks of life, especially the kids. His work with disadvantaged kids is outstanding. The first fight with Azumah robbed Fenech of his heart and soul and left him feeling bitter about Boxing and the corrupt officials that it breeds.

Taking nothing away from Azumah's performance in second fight things went horribly wrong in the lead up for Fenech with his doctor giving Jeff triple the dose of Prednisone medication for his asthma that left him in pixie land.

Jeff was also more interested in getting laid 10 times a day and just the whole big carnival thing about the fight. Jeff making flat-out public appearances and the rest of the media circus that goes with it took his focus away from the fight.