View Full Version : James Toney


judge_jab
01-08-2008, 03:49 PM
Hey guys,

I have recently began experimenting with the philly shell at my boxing gym. I have decided I love it lol. I have only been boxing for about 5 months but have been doing ITF taekwondo for 7 years so the sideways stance etc feels really really natural.

I have experimented and have realized that the philly shell is pretty weak when fighting boxers who are shorter than you and that it works best against people who are around the same height or taller. So I have been using the philly shell against people my height or taller and the traditional guard when fighting shorter opponents.

I get a chance to spar or at least light spar with all the fighters in my gym and they range from a lanky 6ft 7 guy to a tank like 5ft 6 guy, so I have plenty of opportunities to try it out.

I think it would be useful to study fighters who use the philly shell well. I am working my way through PBF's fights and have seen James Toney using it in some of his highlights.

Which are James Toney's best fights in which he uses the philly shell, are there any other fighters who use this style?

Lastly, any tips on using this style?

Thanks

TheGreatA
01-08-2008, 03:54 PM
Watch Toney vs Barkley and Toney vs Jirov. Those are two very good performances by JT.

judge_jab
01-08-2008, 04:04 PM
thanks a lot, also, what do you think about my idea of using it against taller or same height fighters etc?

TheGreatA
01-08-2008, 05:07 PM
Watch James Toney at heavyweight. Toney can use his style against any kind of fighter (short or tall) but it's really hard to master. You need some reflexes, boxing knowledge and flexibility to pull it off like he does.

judge_jab
01-08-2008, 05:19 PM
I have the flexibility, very good reflexes and my knowledge is building. I am a very intelligent boxer too but my handspeed needs to improve and my defense when attacking. Could you please look at my same thread in the Non Stop Boxing forum?

BennyST
01-13-2008, 10:15 PM
Edit: double post

BennyST
01-13-2008, 10:16 PM
I have the flexibility, very good reflexes and my knowledge is building. I am a very intelligent boxer too but my handspeed needs to improve and my defense when attacking. Could you please look at my same thread in the Non Stop Boxing forum?

You need to work a lot on your reflexes. It is a counter punching defensive style, not an attacking one. You should only go on the offensive when you are either following up on a good landed shot or busting out a combo when they have missed and are off balance.

You have to think in terms of counter punching and defense. The whole point of it is to get someone in and make their shots miss and roll over you while you counter and get them off balance and unawares, so you need super sharp reflexes and the courage to stand in the face of a full throttle attack while keeping your wits, keeping your calm and most of all keeping your eyes on your opponent.

As listed above, you need a very flexible, strong, explosive midsection to be able to keep up the demands of twisting, ducking, bobbing and then shooting back with a counter explosively and quickly. You also really want to work on your hand speed because if you are not fast it won't matter how good you are this style will not work that well for you. You have to have very fast reflexes and hand speed. Otherwise you will never come back in time to hit someone in the split second they are off balance or open to the counter.

The most important thing though: This will only ever work well if you practice it constantly. You need to just get in the gym and spar with it all the time. No matter how much training you do, it will only work if you get in there and put in the rounds. You have to get used to someone being in your face swinging at you like mad and not give in to the instinctive reflex to turn away, forget your training and just cover up or start swinging back with no regard to what your swinging for or at.

It comes about by fighting A LOT! You have to do it so much that you instinctively stand in and pull your shoulder up, tuck your chin in, turn side on to present the smallest target while leaning back and most of all, you know what is going to be thrown at you! That only comes about by being in the gym and sparring with everyone all the time. You will eventually see what is going to be thrown after doing it for so long it becomes second nature. You will know or see when someone is going to jab, jab and then throw a right or some other combo and you will be able to react accordingly.

The thing is, no amount of stomach crunches or running will prepare you for this. You just have to get in there and do it. Also, don't watch just a few tapes of guys you know about. Find every single video you possibly can on all the defensive counter punches. You should be able to track down nearly all of Toneys and Mayweathers fights pretty easily. Also look for Michael Nunn, Nicolino Locche, Herol Graham, Pernell Whitaker, Wilfred Benitez, Ezzard Charles, Miguel Canto, Joan Guzman, Bernard Hopkins etc etc. You have to study them and the more you study and see the more you will know and understand how the pros react to all their opponents with all the different styles and ways of doing it. Good luck, hope that helps a bit.

potatoes
01-13-2008, 10:31 PM
Hey guys,

I have recently began experimenting with the philly shell at my boxing gym. I have decided I love it lol. I have only been boxing for about 5 months but have been doing ITF taekwondo for 7 years so the sideways stance etc feels really really natural.

I have experimented and have realized that the philly shell is pretty weak when fighting boxers who are shorter than you and that it works best against people who are around the same height or taller. So I have been using the philly shell against people my height or taller and the traditional guard when fighting shorter opponents.

I get a chance to spar or at least light spar with all the fighters in my gym and they range from a lanky 6ft 7 guy to a tank like 5ft 6 guy, so I have plenty of opportunities to try it out.

I think it would be useful to study fighters who use the philly shell well. I am working my way through PBF's fights and have seen James Toney using it in some of his highlights.

Which are James Toney's best fights in which he uses the philly shell, are there any other fighters who use this style?

Lastly, any tips on using this style?

Thanks



The only reason that ****ed up, phony, philly style works is because you are facing opposition who do not know how to exploit it. Try it against Kelly Pavlik and you will soon see how worthless it really is.

BennyST
01-13-2008, 10:45 PM
The only reason that ****ed up, phony, philly style works is because you are facing opposition who do not know how to exploit it. Try it against Kelly Pavlik and you will soon see how worthless it really is.


Really? Why is that? Explain to us how to exploit it? Or maybe try explaining how Pavliks jab, jab, straight right hand, rinse, repeat would exploit it?

potatoes
01-13-2008, 11:05 PM
Really? Why is that? Explain to us how to exploit it? Or maybe try explaining how Pavliks jab, jab, straight right hand, rinse, repeat would exploit it?


When your guard is down you get hit more easily. Did you happen to notice that the brain-dead Arturo Gatti was trying to use the ****ed up, phony, philly style against Floyd Mayweather? Mayweather hit him at will. If Gatti had kept his guard up where it belongs he still wouldn't have won but at least he wouldn't have made it soon easy for Mayweather to turn his face into hamburger.

Pavlik throws punches in bunches and most of them come straight down the middle hard and fast. If he misses your head he will hit your shoulder if you present it to him. Pavlik is clever enough to throw the right more frequently when the left glove is guarding the waist band. That is how Jermain Taylor got himself knocked out. Taylor may not have been using the ****ed up, phony, philly style, but the end result was just the same.

skilgannon
01-14-2008, 03:20 AM
When your guard is down you get hit more easily. Did you happen to notice that the brain-dead Arturo Gatti was trying to use the ****ed up, phony, philly style against Floyd Mayweather? Mayweather hit him at will. If Gatti had kept his guard up where it belongs he still wouldn't have won but at least he wouldn't have made it soon easy for Mayweather to turn his face into hamburger.

Pavlik throws punches in bunches and most of them come straight down the middle hard and fast. If he misses your head he will hit your shoulder if you present it to him. Pavlik is clever enough to throw the right more frequently when the left glove is guarding the waist band. That is how Jermain Taylor got himself knocked out. Taylor may not have been using the ****ed up, phony, philly style, but the end result was just the same.


for your info, mayweather uses this style too so it is natural for him to know how to exploit it. gatti using this stance against floyd was so wrong because floyd does the same thing much better than gatti

Darkstranger
01-14-2008, 09:12 AM
The philly shell also requires god gifted talent and natural ability. James Tony and PBF have fantastic peripheral vision, which allows them to use the philly shell against top opponents.

judge_jab
01-14-2008, 10:48 AM
thanks guys,

I might not be mayweather or toney but I'm not facing pavlik etc, so no need to worry.

BennyST
01-15-2008, 01:34 AM
The philly shell also requires god gifted talent and natural ability. James Tony and PBF have fantastic peripheral vision, which allows them to use the philly shell against top opponents.

Yes, this is very true. Unless you're very naturally talented and gifted in the physical department it just ain't going to work too well for you. You have to do it for a long, long time so it is completely second nature. It is not something you can really learn for a while and expect to use it quickly. It is the hardest method to perfect but if you've got the time, motivation, natural skills and willingness to get hit a lot while using it to perfect it, it could work. Find what works for your body and natural skills.

Potatoes: That is the most ridiculous example of someone using the 'Philly Shell'. Neither Taylor or Gatti use it. Just having your left hand down doesn't mean ****! That is more so you can throw the jab from your waist. Got nothing to do with style. Someone proficient at it, like Toney, would take Pavlik to school without getting hit once I'm afraid.

eazy_mas
01-15-2008, 01:45 AM
James Toney is the only boxer who get comfortable at the ropes and would rather fight on the ropes rather than middle of the ring

phallus
01-15-2008, 01:46 AM
watch some of the prime chris byrd's fights, he doesn't quite use the philly shell to the level of toney or mayweather, but the prime byrd was a master of slipping shots, he could stand right in front of u and still make u miss

beefymoocow
01-16-2008, 08:59 AM
hello i'm kind of new at boxing. Could you please tell me more about the philly shell. what are the basics of the Philly Shell style defense? what is it that makes it effective when used properly?