View Full Version : Stamina Training Theory -- for the Experts, Please


fraidycat
01-01-2008, 02:05 PM
Alright. I fight really well when I put on the pressure, but I can't seem to hold it for more than 15-20 seconds.

I was thinking that this was my breathing, but I was talking to a buddy of mine who is an athletic trainer, and he spotted the following hole in my training......

..........wait for it.......

........ hill runs.

Stick with me on this.

He thinks that my legs are giving out on my hill run before my lungs can really get a good workout. So I can keep a decent pace in the ring but I can't flurry for very long.

So starting a few days ago, I quit the morning hill run (1.5 miles down a long hill, some stretching at the bottom, then running back up), and went instead to the community college track and started doing sprints inthe mornings. A quarter-mile at a nice slow pace, then some more stretching, then about 15 minutes of 100-meter and as of this morning, a few 200-meter sprints.

What's interesting is, when I started, I found I could sprint balls-out for almost EXACTLY as long as I can flurry: about 20 seconds. And at the end of it I feel EXACTLY the way I feel when I gas out at the end of a long pressure attack.

It's been four days and I'm now up to 34 seconds as my longest sprint. A full 200 meters. This is a definite improvement in a very short time.

I am going to do sprints for the next 4 weeks and see if, when I've gotten up to, say, a 60-second sprint, if I can do a 60-second flurry, as well.

If I could, theoretically, work up to a 3-minute sprint, I should be able to press the attack for the full round, which is what I'm going for in the long run.

Trainers and fighters ONLY, please, comment on this idea before I kill myself trying.

PunchDrunk
01-01-2008, 02:24 PM
Since you use the body in two very different ways, sprinting and throwing punches, I very much doubt that the carry over from sprint time to a flurry will be 1 to 1...
Consider this: Which is more like what you're doing in the ring - sprinting or heavy bag? Heavy bag obviously. So, theoretically, if you can flurry for the full three minutes on the bag, you can do it in the ring. Funny thing is, it's just not quite the same, and being able to go all out on the bag doesn't guarantee you can go all out in the ring. How in the hell will sprinting for three minutes make you able to flurry in the ring for three minutes then?

Running, sprinting, weights etc. are all necessary training tools for a boxer, but the carry over from those things to the ring is a grey area, and the most important training tools are the ones who most resemble the real thing.

It'll be interesting to see what you get out of it though. :)

Down4TheCount
01-01-2008, 02:29 PM
Since you use the body in two very different ways, sprinting and throwing punches, I very much doubt that the carry over from sprint time to a flurry will be 1 to 1...
Consider this: Which is more like what you're doing in the ring - sprinting or heavy bag? Heavy bag obviously. So, theoretically, if you can flurry for the full three minutes on the bag, you can do it in the ring. Funny thing is, it's just not quite the same, and being able to go all out on the bag doesn't guarantee you can go all out in the ring. How in the hell will sprinting for three minutes make you able to flurry in the ring for three minutes then?

Running, sprinting, weights etc. are all necessary training tools for a boxer, but the carry over from those things to the ring is a grey area, and the most important training tools are the ones who most resemble the real thing.

It'll be interesting to see what you get out of it though. :)


because it doesnt have so much to do with what part of the body hes using to get this accomplished wether its his arms or his legs . he gets winded when he flurries therefore he needs to train his lungs , and have better cardio / stamina , its not like his arms are getting tired .

so therefore doing sprints trains his lungs , and in turn helps his cardio and stamina wich should theoretically allow him to flurry longer without getting winded.

thats at least how i see it.

fraidycat
01-01-2008, 02:32 PM
Since you use the body in two very different ways, sprinting and throwing punches, I very much doubt that the carry over from sprint time to a flurry will be 1 to 1...

Running, sprinting, weights etc. are all necessary training tools for a boxer, but the carry over from those things to the ring is a grey area, and the most important training tools are the ones who most resemble the real thing.

It'll be interesting to see what you get out of it though. :)

Yeah. You're thinking what I'm thinking.

When my gym opens up tomorrow I'll be curious to see how much of this carries over. I guess my buddy's thinking is that it's my lungs that are failing me in the ring, not my punching/moving, and that sprinting on a flat track is the best way to isolate my cardiovascular system.

It's not just the flurries; it's also the weaving, the staying in close, the clinching (and clinch breaking), etc. of pressure fighting. It's not even that I want to be able to throw for 3 solid minutes; I just want to be able to go after him and stay on him like one of those zombies on 28 DAYS LATER until the bell rings. :boxing:

fraidycat
01-01-2008, 02:34 PM
because it doesnt have so much to do with what part of the body hes using to get this accomplished wether its his arms or his legs . he gets winded when he flurries therefore he needs to train his lungs , and have better cardio / stamina , its not like his arms are getting tired .

so therefore doing sprints trains his lungs , and in turn helps his cardio and stamina wich should theoretically allow him to flurry longer without getting winded.

thats at least how i see it.

This is what my buddy is thinking. Okay, I'm gonna go forward with this and I'll post progress if & as I see it.

PunchDrunk
01-01-2008, 03:37 PM
because it doesnt have so much to do with what part of the body hes using to get this accomplished wether its his arms or his legs . he gets winded when he flurries therefore he needs to train his lungs , and have better cardio / stamina , its not like his arms are getting tired .

so therefore doing sprints trains his lungs , and in turn helps his cardio and stamina wich should theoretically allow him to flurry longer without getting winded.

thats at least how i see it.

But it does. You can't isolate your lungs from the rest of your body. They react to what your body is doing, and there's a big difference between running and boxing. His lungs are reacting that way because his arms (as well as the rest of the body of cours, but to a larger extent than when running) working, burning up the oxygen he's breathing in.

Try getting a world class runner (sprinter or long distance) to last 3 minutes in the ring, doing intensive work. I'm not talking about skill wise, just stamina. It's just not gonna happen. Have one of those guys moving around a ring, throwing punches, they'll be dead on the floor in less than a minute. Why? Because it DOES matter how you "train your lungs."

Besides, training your lungs is not gonna cut it for boxing, because boxing is 80% anaerobic, which means that the only time you're doing aerobic wrok in the ring is basically between rounds, getting your wind back, restoring ATP in the muscle. If your arms aren't condtioned to do that, they won't recover, and you'll remain winded. So no, you're not just training your lungs, they're just a small part of what's going on (although a big part of what you FEEL, when working).

sterling
01-01-2008, 03:38 PM
i gues it depends when ur in the ring to be honest you have to do more then train to be able to flurrie in the ring against a opponant that can counterpunch,be defensive and etc.
You can throw alot of shots but it doesnt mean you will land them and thats what counts but its gd u wantin to improve ur stamina thats what i need to do also i do alot of hill runs.

fraidycat
01-01-2008, 04:41 PM
I should note, too, that this will be in conjunction with my morning, 3-mile runs (I did mine later this morning on a flat route, more for weight control and to shake out the kinks, and I'll probably run to the track, which is 2 miles each way, or else mix up the sprinting and morning running; I don't want to quit running completely) and my regular boxing training. I'm not doing this as any sort of a replacement for boxing.

Smokin__
01-01-2008, 05:14 PM
Try some plyo's. And I'm serious with that too.

Count Patron
01-01-2008, 05:33 PM
If you can sprint full speed for 3 minutes sign up for the Olympics ;)

Smokin__
01-01-2008, 05:38 PM
But it does. You can't isolate your lungs from the rest of your body. They react to what your body is doing, and there's a big difference between running and boxing. His lungs are reacting that way because his arms (as well as the rest of the body of cours, but to a larger extent than when running) working, burning up the oxygen he's breathing in.

Try getting a world class runner (sprinter or long distance) to last 3 minutes in the ring, doing intensive work. I'm not talking about skill wise, just stamina. It's just not gonna happen. Have one of those guys moving around a ring, throwing punches, they'll be dead on the floor in less than a minute. Why? Because it DOES matter how you "train your lungs."

Besides, training your lungs is not gonna cut it for boxing, because boxing is 80% anaerobic, which means that the only time you're doing aerobic wrok in the ring is basically between rounds, getting your wind back, restoring ATP in the muscle. If your arms aren't condtioned to do that, they won't recover, and you'll remain winded. So no, you're not just training your lungs, they're just a small part of what's going on (although a big part of what you FEEL, when working).

Agree 100%. Nice post.

Do you have a degree in sports med or keniesology?

Brockton Lip
01-01-2008, 05:39 PM
It could be mental also, which won't necessarily explain how your stamina lasts as long with running as it does for flurries, but a large portion of it could be your mental state.
And it happens; just look at many pros who are winded after doing flurries. Taylor for instance against Pavlik (bad example or not, thats up in the air but its true).

j
01-01-2008, 08:02 PM
if your friend knows, ask him to teach you breathing exercises and proper deep breathing which will increase air intake and oxygenation efficiency.

j
01-01-2008, 08:05 PM
one more thing, learn to relax. i mean really relax and use minimal amount of effort for the particular activity. efficiency is something i study and preach.

fraidycat
01-01-2008, 08:32 PM
if your friend knows, ask him to teach you breathing exercises and proper deep breathing which will increase air intake and oxygenation efficiency.

My wife is an opera singer, and has instructed me on diaphragmatic breathing, which was the first thing my buddy recommended and which I used to do a long time ago when running but forgot about for about 15 years.

I have trouble doing diaphragmatic breathing in the ring; getting hit in the body with my stomach relaxed really sucks. I have to charge in, throw a few, then get distance and breathe.

brianhp4p
01-01-2008, 11:30 PM
Alright. I fight really well when I put on the pressure, but I can't seem to hold it for more than 15-20 seconds.

I was thinking that this was my breathing, but I was talking to a buddy of mine who is an athletic trainer, and he spotted the following hole in my training......

..........wait for it.......

........ hill runs.

Stick with me on this.

He thinks that my legs are giving out on my hill run before my lungs can really get a good workout. So I can keep a decent pace in the ring but I can't flurry for very long.

So starting a few days ago, I quit the morning hill run (1.5 miles down a long hill, some stretching at the bottom, then running back up), and went instead to the community college track and started doing sprints inthe mornings. A quarter-mile at a nice slow pace, then some more stretching, then about 15 minutes of 100-meter and as of this morning, a few 200-meter sprints.

What's interesting is, when I started, I found I could sprint balls-out for almost EXACTLY as long as I can flurry: about 20 seconds. And at the end of it I feel EXACTLY the way I feel when I gas out at the end of a long pressure attack.

It's been four days and I'm now up to 34 seconds as my longest sprint. A full 200 meters. This is a definite improvement in a very short time.

I am going to do sprints for the next 4 weeks and see if, when I've gotten up to, say, a 60-second sprint, if I can do a 60-second flurry, as well.

If I could, theoretically, work up to a 3-minute sprint, I should be able to press the attack for the full round, which is what I'm going for in the long run.

Trainers and fighters ONLY, please, comment on this idea before I kill myself trying.


What works best for me in increasing my stamina is several rounds of punch mitts and punch shield. throws a few hundred punches per round and try to constantly be throwing for the entire round....You'll need someone who is good at giving you mitts.....with the shield throw continuous hard power punches....try 3 rounds of each and increase the rounds as you gain more stamina.....add this to your work out...This should help you throw more punches during your fights and sparring......

Landon S
01-02-2008, 12:04 AM
Sorry cuz Im no expert but Ive been doing 'the magic 50" from rosstraining.com twice a week along with my other workouts and it WILL help immensely. Just try it once at least and you'll see how great it is for conditioning. Just be sure to go all out.

Since I started doing it twice a week EVERYTHING is easier. The Magic 50 was designed for boxers so its not just some stupid workout.

Seriously.....try it :poke: try it :poke: