eminem before he sold out. in terms of talent and lyrics and all that.
and i guess by selling out i mean when he started making pop music.

eminem before he sold out. in terms of talent and lyrics and all that.
and i guess by selling out i mean when he started making pop music.

I love his first 2 albums, and the 3rd was quite good. Encore was **** and now I have no interest in what he brings out anymore.

On the Marshall Mathers LP he could be unbeleivably clever, sick and funny all in one line. His wordplay was amazing.

Never liked him. I've heard a few songs from him that are tolerable.

The issue of Eminem cuts right to the heart of what Hip Hop is about and what it is not about in terms of mood.
Lyrics are important but they are important as a means to an end, the mood that is Hip Hop.

Eminem was never that mood to me.

*Sits back and waits for that pbftxf guy to appear out of nowhere and post a 15 paragraph explanation of how Eminem is the greatest human being to ever set foot on the earth.*

Never liked him. I've heard a few songs from him that are tolerable.

The issue of Eminem cuts right to the heart of what Hip Hop is about and what it is not about in terms of mood.
Lyrics are important but they are important as a means to an end, the mood that is Hip Hop.

Eminem was never that mood to me.

*Sits back and waits for that pbftxf guy to appear out of nowhere and post a 15 paragraph explanation of how Eminem is the greatest human being to ever set foot on the earth.*

Lol.

Do you not think Eminem was better than Jay in Renegade??

From his underground CD Infinite to the Marshall Mathers LP he was a phenom, one of the best we've seen. The Eminem Show was a good CD as well. If you're an Eminem fan, it was probably your favorite CD, if you're a rap fan, not as much, but still pretty good. Encore sucked, other than Mosh, but he pretty much was at a stage where he didn't seem to care too much anymore.

As far as lyrics, flow, freestyling and battling ability, and versatility, in his prime he rates as one of the best ever for me.

Eminem has a lot of great songs. I don't mind even some of his newer songs, now.

Infinite:
Infinite, Never 2 Far, It's OK, 313, Searchin', Jealousy Woes II.

The Slim Shady LP:
Rock Bottom, Just Don't Give A ****, Role Model, Guilty Conscience, If I Had, '97 Bonnie & Clyde, Bad Meets Evil, As The World Turns.

The Marshall Mathers LP:
Kill You, Stan, Criminal, The Way I Am, Kim, Amityville, Who Knew?

The Eminem Show:
White America, Cleanin' Out My Closet, Drips, Sing For The Moment, Superman, My Dad's Gone Crazy, Say What You Say.

Encore:
Evil Deeds, Yellow Brick Road, Like Toy Soldiers, Mosh, Mockingbird.

8 Mile Soundtrack:
Lose Yourself, 8 Mile Road, Rabbit Run.

Other ****:
Renegade, Jay-Z - Bad Infuence, Eminem - No Apologies, Eminem - When I'm Gone, Eminem.

Then, he's also becoming a very good producer. Overall, I still feel some of his ****. Because I look at music differently than most. I would like ot thin I have the ability to seperate past work with what I'm listening to now. I go album to album. It makes music more enjoyable that way.

I got no real problem with him.

The old eminem was dope as ****, his wordplay wa sawesome and his lyrics were hot as ****......

Plus, Marshall mathers lp is a classic...

Recent years his music has not been too good....

thanks for the responses, and good call on whoever mentioned renegade, that is one of my top 3 favs by em.

Eminem lost his drive, and his anger...

He sold so many albums because he had his own sound, but Em wanted to blend in and be "accepted" by other rappers...so he put out crap like "Smack That" and "Shake That" and whatnot

I'd like to see him put something quality out again. He has said that the Slim Shady character is dead...

Eminem has a lot of great songs. I don't mind even some of his newer songs, now.

Infinite:
Infinite, Never 2 Far, It's OK, 313, Searchin', Jealousy Woes II.

The Slim Shady LP:
Rock Bottom, Just Don't Give A ****, Role Model, Guilty Conscience, If I Had, '97 Bonnie & Clyde, Bad Meets Evil, As The World Turns.

The Marshall Mathers LP:
Kill You, Stan, Criminal, The Way I Am, Kim, Amityville, Who Knew?

The Eminem Show:
White America, Cleanin' Out My Closet, Drips, Sing For The Moment, Superman, My Dad's Gone Crazy, Say What You Say.

Encore:
Evil Deeds, Yellow Brick Road, Like Toy Soldiers, Mosh, Mockingbird.

8 Mile Soundtrack:
Lose Yourself, 8 Mile Road, Rabbit Run.

Other ****:
Renegade, Jay-Z - Bad Infuence, Eminem - No Apologies, Eminem - When I'm Gone, Eminem.

Then, he's also becoming a very good producer. Overall, I still feel some of his ****. Because I look at music differently than most. I would like ot thin I have the ability to seperate past work with what I'm listening to now. I go album to album. It makes music more enjoyable that way.

I got no real problem with him.
You forgot I'm Back from the Marshall Mathers LP. One of my faves.

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You forgot I'm Back from the Marshall Mathers LP. One of my faves.

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Very true. just goes to show, I could mention that many songs from one artist and still leave some out. He's a great artist.. He's stalled lately but, human nature isn't his fault.

Very true. just goes to show, I could mention that many songs from one artist and still leave some out. He's a great artist.. He's stalled lately but, human nature isn't his fault.
Em is fire on Obie's We All Die One Day

Em is fire on Obie's We All Die One Day

He's also nice on Hey Lady.

Lol.

Do you not think Eminem was better than Jay in Renegade??


lol yeah Nas helped popularize this comparison but I'm not influenced by his opinion here.
Jay was just lax on his second verse and Eminem's first verse was not impressive. I guess what everyone is talking about is Eminem's second verse and all that Mormon, Catholic stuff. Ehh, might have impressed me more if that one was longer.

To me this line itself hit's harder than any single line you can cite from Eminem's verses.


"Im influenced by the ghetto you ruined/the same dudes you gave nothing, I made something doing".

Guess I'm "biased" though. Can't stand his voice, and the energy in his music just isn't Hip Hop. Everytime I hear him I feel like I'm listening to some weird kind of Rock song.
I don't really believe it is a bias though, just a musical assesment.

What neils said is right.
He sounds like a fool on smack that.

eminem was nice intill he come out with Encore.


Marshall Mathers LP is a classic

old em was ok he took his style from Pun but hes never perfected the style like pun did

res is exactly right....back in slim shady & marshal lp times eminem's lyrics were crazy, and probably one of the best to do it. But as res said, the **** wasn't hip hop (it was way too negative) and anytime I listen to eminem I want to kill someone. Hip Hop is meant to be positive and if nothing else, at least get people dancing.

Eminem's **** wasn't and it was most likely a gimmick (I haven't heard Infinite so I cannot comment on whether his character was a gimmick or not).

Infinite=decent
Slim Shady LP=very good
Marshall Mathers LP=Classic
The Eminem Show=very good
Encore=a diarhea & onion sandwich

I changed my mind.
He didn't "sell out".

Great artist adjust with the time or attempt new things, even when some might feel they're no longer what they were.

eminem before he sold out. in terms of talent and lyrics and all that.
and i guess by selling out i mean when he started making pop music.

He is a genious and one of the best lyricists to ever grab a mic......

res is exactly right....back in slim shady & marshal lp times eminem's lyrics were crazy, and probably one of the best to do it. But as res said, the **** wasn't hip hop (it was way too negative) and anytime I listen to eminem I want to kill someone. Hip Hop is meant to be positive and if nothing else, at least get people dancing.

Eminem's **** wasn't and it was most likely a gimmick (I haven't heard Infinite so I cannot comment on whether his character was a gimmick or not).

So was much of Public Enemy's catalog not hip-hop? How about some of "Straight Outta Compton"? Or any song where the ghetto struggle doesn't show a bright side?

Can you dance to MF Grimm?

So was much of Public Enemy's catalog not hip-hop? How about some of "Straight Outta Compton"? Or any song where the ghetto struggle doesn't show a bright side?

Can you dance to MF Grimm?

Same goes for The Gayme, I mean Game.

Same goes for The Gayme, I mean Game.

Gotta be able to dance to it? In rap.. there's music to dance to/party to. Music to ride to, smoke to, relate to, in terms of problems. Tupac isn't hip-hop by this standard. Cause I ain't "bustin' a move" to Brenda's Got A Baby.

So was much of Public Enemy's catalog not hip-hop? How about some of "Straight Outta Compton"? Or any song where the ghetto struggle doesn't show a bright side?

Can you dance to MF Grimm?

Gangsta Rap is still hip hop...showing the harsh realities of life in the ghetto.

Eminem, when I now think about it, was just straight up bull****. Just because he raps over hip hop beats does not make his early **** hip hop to me...**** is just foul.

Gangsta Rap is still hip hop...showing the harsh realities of life in the ghetto.

Eminem, when I now think about it, was just straight up bull****. Just because he raps over hip hop beats does not make his early **** hip hop to me...**** is just foul.

Eminem's early stuff is some the best stuff i ever heard.

Em was the man back in the day. My fave tune of his is Scary Movie with Royce.

Now he makes wack tracks and he sounds really whiney.

Eminrm's early stuff is some the best stuff i ever heard.

Em was the man back in the day. My fave tune of his is Scary Movie with Royce.

Now he makes wack tracks and he sounds really whiney.

He can still bring the heat if he wants. No Apologies is an example of that.

i dont know if has got all lazy, but during his early career em had an identity, we all knew who he was and what his music stood for and his songs & lyrics reflected that...

He was a slightly deranged dude with a ****ed up background and he didnt like his wife or mother, etc,etc and all that bollocks....

Now his got all the fame and money and people recognise him, i think he feels that he dont need to rap like that, his lyrics aint raw like they used to be...

It's all commercial bull****....

Em never really sold out since his first album went like, 3 or 4 times platinum. But he switched his style up. It was a bad change, but i think he'll make a comeback. I heard that **** on The Re-Up "No Appoligies" and that was a ****in great song!

Gangsta Rap is still hip hop...showing the harsh realities of life in the ghetto.

Eminem, when I now think about it, was just straight up bull****. Just because he raps over hip hop beats does not make his early **** hip hop to me...**** is just foul.

What stuff are you talking about? Kim and **** like that? Maybe, but otherwise the Marshall Mathers LP was very good, the Slim Shady LP was nasty as hell, and Infinite was lyrically his best ****.

Just because he raps over hip hop beats does not make his early **** hip hop to me...**** is just foul.


Good statement.

Eminem was always pop, at least in my opinion. That doesn't mean before he started making music specifically for suburban teenage - white - kids at parties he wasn't a talented MC.

I totally reject those who say he's top 5, top 10 or possibly even top 15 when it comes to artists throughout the history of rap. Lyrically he would struggle to beat Big L, had Big L not been taken from us. He doesn't/didn't - has he retired or not? - have as big a catalogue of songs as say Tupac or Nas.

He hasn't the flow to touch Jay-Z and nothing he could say could be as sick as some of the **** Biggie rhymed. Big Pun, in my opinion, is unquestionably a better all round MC then Eminem as well. I mean that's comparing Em to the more famous MC's who have passed and universally declared top two MC's alive today.

Then there's a debate over whether he's a more talented MC then Joe Budden, for example, whose struggling to put out a second album! I mean Budden's mixtapes are iller than Eminem's Encore! I sometimes feel Eminem's given too much credit because he's white and had a good, if not excellent, first two albums.

Eminem was always pop, at least in my opinion. That doesn't mean before he started making music specifically for suburban teenage - white - kids at parties he wasn't a talented MC.

I totally reject those who say he's top 5, top 10 or possibly even top 15 when it comes to artists throughout the history of rap. Lyrically he would struggle to beat Big L, had Big L not been taken from us. He doesn't/didn't - has he retired or not? - have as big a catalogue of songs as say Tupac or Nas.

He hasn't the flow to touch Jay-Z and nothing he could say could be as sick as some of the **** Biggie rhymed. Big Pun, in my opinion, is unquestionably a better all round MC then Eminem as well. I mean that's comparing Em to the more famous MC's who have passed and universally declared top two MC's alive today.

Then there's a debate over whether he's a more talented MC then Joe Budden, for example, whose struggling to put out a second album! I mean Budden's mixtapes are iller than Eminem's Encore! I sometimes feel Eminem's given too much credit because he's white and had a good, if not excellent, first two albums.

I'm a big Em fan and I agree he doesn't compare to the likes of Big, Pac, Big L etc, but you can't deny he was lyrical beast.

Never liked him. I've heard a few songs from him that are tolerable.

The issue of Eminem cuts right to the heart of what Hip Hop is about and what it is not about in terms of mood.
Lyrics are important but they are important as a means to an end, the mood that is Hip Hop.

Eminem was never that mood to me.

*Sits back and waits for that pbftxf guy to appear out of nowhere and post a 15 paragraph explanation of how Eminem is the greatest human being to ever set foot on the earth.*well, wait no longer ass clown because he's right here to respond to your little pansy ass. but i respect your opinion, but of course i am going to give mine also, whether 15 paragraphs or 5 pages so get ready little drummer monkey.

the thing that gets me about you guys and eminem is, is that you seem to focus too much on his encore album, and base your arguments off of this album like the songs he did on encore wasn't similar to the songs he did on the mmlp, sslp, and the eminem show, d12 world, devil's night. you guys base his talent on the songs he writes, but fail to realize that eminem showcases three characters, eminem, marshall mathers, and slim shady. he showcased them all on all of his albums, not just encore. there's no denying that he was arguably the most controversial hip hop artist of his time, and his albums stemmed from his controvery in american music and rap music as a whole. a white man rapping in a majority black populated business. but, eminem has transcended as well as revolutionized hip and broke every barrier that was previosuly set by solo artist such as vanilla ice and mark wahlberg. his lyrical talent is 2nd to none, and he deserves more credit than anyone will ever give him. skillwise, only a handful may be better than him, but that's even never set in stone because of how different people view different artists.

eminem didn't rap about jewelry, pimpin *****es, killing people in the hood, dealing coke, etc your typical rapper rapped about. he could only stay honest with himself, and share his life story in his own way, which he has done masterfully. he has let us in to his mind, but in a way that caused controversy, and imo he became controverisial by default just being another white rapper signed to a legend like dre. who you wouldn't think would sign a white rapper anyway. this is what set eminem apart from other rappers, not only did he rap about things that made people either throw up or fight, he did it with the accpetance of a producer like dre who was very much so reveered in the hip hop community. but skillwise, you cannot negate the fact that eminem is a ****ing brilliant lyricisit, no matter what he's talking about, whether politics, drugs he's done, killing his mother and wife, bashing pop stars, bashing other rappers, the state of the world, the state of hip hop, how he is viewed, homosexuals, terrorists, whatever, the list goes on and on, lyrically, he is the truth.

now when i talk about lyrics, i mean, timing with wordplay, changing speeds in songs, complex rhyming, flow, aand others of that nature. eminem is a wordsmith in how he accentuates syllables in his words. a great example of this, which hasn't been mentioned is "love me" off of the 8 mile soundtrack with him,50, and obie trice. the line where he goes, "i bully these rappers so bad ly-ri-cally, if you go back and listen to the song's beat, and the tempo, shady rode that line brilliantly, and it in fact changed the tempo of his rhyme. i mean, this is what he's a master at, complex rhyme schemes and wordplay. listen to songs like "hey lady", "the way i am", and "jealous woes", he displays this very much in these songs. eminem takes a long time to make his songs because he is so in tune to what sounds great and what sounds bad, and lyrically, he is in a league of his own. i mean, you have to give the man credit, not only is he the highest selling rap artist in history, he is also a truly gifted and methocial mc.

you guys claim he made pop songs, but many great artists do. club songs like "superman" by soulja boy or "owe me something" by nas can be considered pop songs. "oochie wally' or "big pimpin" could be considered pop songs. does that make jay or nas pop. i mean, hip hop is a business just as much as an artform, and eminem is a smart business man and amazing artist.

you guys claim that he doesn't rank with biggie, pac, big l, pun, jay, or nas, or rakim, etc, which is completely utter bull****. he is the arguably the most versatile mc of all time, because he knows how to adjust to the times and current state of hip hop, and music in general, very well, and it reflects in his songs, but he also stays successful in doing this. songs like, "my name is", the real slim shady, just lose it, without me, are songs that went along with the times well, i mean, i'm sure many of you were bumping "my name is" when it first came out, admit it. em goes along with the times. i mean, had he stayed the same like he was from his earlier albums, he wouldn't be as versaitle as he is today. he changed his flow to a more tempered pace, but kept his compexity, with songs like till i collaspe, soldier, saying goodbye to hollywood, dream on, and these are just songs off of eminem show. i didn't even mention collabos with jay-z, 50 cent, the game, ti, fat joe, and others where he outshines them on their own songs, which is another part of is brilliance. eminem won a ****ing oscar for his song lose yourself, which was the perfect ballad for his movie, he was just astonishing in this song, i mean, the man is truly gifted around the border. he has his own style, not big pun's style like somone mentioned earlier, don't know what they were thinking, nut nonethelss, em has his own subject matter, his own flavor to offer in hip hop and he has done it beautfully. just because you people dont' like his style or content doesn't take away from his gifted talent. such songs like the ones i mentioned above added to songs like stan(creatively brilliant), renegades, his song off of the biggie duets, dead wrong with biggie, emulate, like toy soldiers, one day at a time off of the tupac ressurection soundtrack, patiently waiting, marshall mathers, square dance, revalation, no apologies, white america(another oscar worth song), mockingbird, hailes's song, when i'm gone, rock bottom, i still don't give a ****, just to name a few.

how about his diss songs towards whitey ford, like quitter, i remember, or the benzino diss song, nail in the coffin where he slayed benzino in one long verse, or the sauce. he can outrap anybody when he wants to. he's damn sure capable of it.

somebody was saying something about joe buddens, who is gifted with his wordplay also, and is a master flow-er also, but he's still hungry and hasn't really shined yet, and eminem is just as gifted than him, if not more, but he's also more methodical and complex than joe, who is just amazing when it comes to songs, rhyming, metaphors, punchlines, all of the above, imo, the greatest underrated rapper in the game today and for the last few years. eminem does deserve mention with biggie, tupac, big l, jay, rakim, nas, pun, whoever because he spits better than tupac, he is more complex than bigge, just as nice as big l, but he put lines together better than big l, in the same league as rakim, imo more gifted than nas and jay z by a mile. em is nice as ****, and he will get the respect he deserves from me.

I'm a big Em fan and I agree he doesn't compare to the likes of Big, Pac, Big L etc, but you can't deny he was lyrical beast.

Of course he was, however, being a lyrical beast doesn't itself justify an artist being described as one of the best of all time. That's simply a myth.

Of course he was, however, being a lyrical beast doesn't itself justify an artist being described as one of the best of all time. That's simply a myth.
It definitely depends on your criteria for GOAT. A lot of time people use straight lyricism to argue against 2Pac or album sales/radio play to argue against Rakim...unless the world can agree on a categorical measuring system, anyone can be described as best of all time, but no one can claim it without controversy...

It definitely depends on your criteria for GOAT. A lot of time people use straight lyricism to argue against 2Pac or album sales/radio play to argue against Rakim...unless the world can agree on a categorical measuring system, anyone can be described as best of all time, but no one can claim it without controversy...

To be the greatest, as far as I'm concearned, you have to at least challenge and do well in all the fields invovled. Eminem simply hasn't made the catalogue of songs that Nas, Tupac and Rakim have. I don't think that can be argued against.

Although I completely understand and agree with most of what you're saying.

Of course he was, however, being a lyrical beast doesn't itself justify an artist being described as one of the best of all time. That's simply a myth.

To me you have to be a good M.C. before it even matters how lyrically skilled you are. M.C. ing came before, and establishes the first standard for a rapper to pass. In other words, i'm talking about someone's mic presence apart from particular lyrics. Let's put it like this, imagine that no one knew who Eminem was and you sent him to a rap club in NY where he wasn't dissing anyone on stage, could he rock that crowd? I severely doubt it.

You can sketch whatever words you want to on a piece of paper, if your not a good M.C. your not much of a rapper.

That said, i think many people even overrate his lyrics just as something set on paper, (lyrically there are atleast two members of Wu Tang that are superior) although I can understand their enthusiasm in that area alone.

To me you have to be a good M.C. before it even matters how lyrically skilled you are. M.C. ing came before, and establishes the first standard for a rapper to pass. In other words, i'm talking about someone's mic presence apart from particular lyrics. Let's put it like this, imagine that no one knew who Eminem was and you sent him to a rap club in NY where he wasn't dissing anyone on stage, could he rock that crowd? I severely doubt it.

You can sketch whatever words you want to on a piece of paper, if your not a good M.C. your not much of a rapper.

That said, i think many people even overrate his lyrics just as something set on paper, (lyrically there are atleast two members of Wu Tang that are superior) although I can understand their enthusiasm in that area alone.the absolute worst post i have ever read from you, your insults to me were better than this ****.

the absolute worst post i have ever read from you, your insults to me were better than this ****.



I have insulted you?

Oh and actually it was an excellent post, you most likely don't even understand what most of it means though.

I have insulted you?

Oh and actually it was an excellent post, you most likely don't even understand what most of it means though.yeah, okay. it was a really good post, okay. it had really no substance to it, but i'll explain why later on. until then, suck it easy.

checkout Biggie and Eminem- Dead wrong

you wanna talk about lyricism? **** goes wayyyy back eminem was RAW

Eminem was and still is a strong lyricist....put it this way, if Eminem got shot dead tommorow.....Where would you put him in the all-time lists?

Not my opinion...but he'll no doubt go down as Top 3 in hip hop purists eyes...he's made a great impact into hip hop, Infinite and MM are classics...SS is a strong album and 'I Am' is Top 20 hip hop track of all time...but there are much better rappers who get overlooked that dont even get half the exposure guys like Eminem and 50 get.....

....and whoever was on about Budden, didn't you think his album was a bit of a let down? I mean, his mixtapes were great and his freestylin' is incredible but i just felt there was something missin'.

old em was ok he took his style from Pun but hes never perfected the style like pun did

Pun took his style from Kool G Rap.

eminem before he sold out. in terms of talent and lyrics and all that.
and i guess by selling out i mean when he started making pop music.

Pundit,

Anybody ever tell you that you resemble Vince Vaughn?

Not the young, good-looking Vince from Swingers. The older, paunchy, wheels-off Vince from DodgeBall.

yeah, okay. it was a really good post, okay. it had really no substance to it, but i'll explain why later on. until then, suck it easy.



No substance? argue with this quote.

Let's put it like this, imagine that no one knew who Eminem was and you sent him to a rap club in NY where he wasn't dissing anyone on stage, could he rock that crowd? I severely doubt it.

What am I even doing, you can't argue with a stan.

Pun took his style from Kool G Rap.

yes thats true but pun took the style and improved it em didnt