http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CIy9ZZEQE&feature=related

haha that was awesome

It not the Kung du or Teakwondo that matters but how to use them.

That was really fun but if you think it differently Kung-fu should win against taekwondo because Kung-fu is more balance.

pleasee dont start the style vs style ****(meaning which style is better)
all it boils down to in reality is
person A vs person B
and their
experience vs experience
luck vs luck

dont ever, ever say oh this (striking) style should win against this one.
i studied taekwondo, tang soo do, judo, and kempo jui jitsu (which is also a kung fu having chinese origins) theyre all equal and have their own strengths. some are soft styles, some are rigid. some are defensive, some are offensive. some simply use what the opponent gives them and goes with the flow.

its how you utalize and apply them and which is more efficent for your mentality. if you take real martial arts, all the concepts are the same too, keep it simple
(not the YMCA tae kwon do weve all seen when they take turns seeing who can kick the highest)

pleasee dont start the style vs style ****(meaning which style is better)
all it boils down to in reality is
person A vs person B
and their
experience vs experience
luck vs luck

dont ever, ever say oh this (striking) style should win against this one.
i studied taekwondo, tang soo do, judo, and kempo jui jitsu (which is also a kung fu having chinese origins) theyre all equal and have their own strengths. some are soft styles, some are rigid. some are defensive, some are offensive. some simply use what the opponent gives them and goes with the flow.

its how you utalize and apply them and which is more efficent for your mentality. if you take real martial arts, all the concepts are the same too, keep it simple
(not the YMCA tae kwon do weve all seen when they take turns seeing who can kick the highest)

To an extent you're right. Fights are broken down to a few factors: Mentality, Experience, Stylistic Advantage, Conditioning, Knowledge of Opponent, Size, Speed, etc. Those seven play a major part in the outcome in a fight. Neither one of those seven are the absolute determining factor in a fight, but the greater amount of factors that someone has in his favor, then obviously the more likely it will turn out in his favor.

BTW, not all styles are equal. If that were the case, I need to enroll in Rexkwondo since it's cheaper then all the TMA classes. There are a lot of styles or at least aspects of styles that are not real world applicable (ie. doing multiple pressure point pushing when the opponent could easily punch you with his other hand or just pull away the arm you're messing with.)

Not to take nothing from Tae-Kwan-Do, extremely fast reflexes, and the timing was superb. I saw the Kung Fu as a "Newly" ranked Black belt. Meaning he just earn his belt, and they put him up against a Master. I think If you have a "Master" Kung Fu representive, or like a 4th degree Black belt, It would've been more interesting to say the least. Looking at it, It seemed as if the the dude in the red already knew what the guy was gonna throw, his counter strikes were quick and precise. Kung Fu sets himself up for a round house (dead give away!) and Brother Lao Lao
counters it. The inexperience of the Kung Fu dude (snarling, grunting) left himself open, no discipline.

Not to take nothing from Tae-Kwan-Do, extremely fast reflexes, and the timing was superb. I saw the Kung Fu as a "Newly" ranked Black belt. Meaning he just earn his belt, and they put him up against a Master. I think If you have a "Master" Kung Fu representive, or like a 4th degree Black belt, It would've been more interesting to say the least. Looking at it, It seemed as if the the dude in the red already knew what the guy was gonna throw, his counter strikes were quick and precise. Kung Fu sets himself up for a round house (dead give away!) and Brother Lao Lao
counters it. The inexperience of the Kung Fu dude (snarling, grunting) left himself open, no discipline.

Ummm...the "Kung Fu" guy won; or I should say the guy who was wearing the Kung Fu uniform and who the poster of the video said was the Kung Fu practitioner . To tell you the truth neither one really looked like they were using Kung Fu except for the initial sweep that the guy in the Kung Fu outfit uses.

Out of all the fights I have seen on video about style vs. style. This one is the first video that I have seen that both representatives actually fought with good form. The kung-Fu looked like Kung-Fu and the Karate looked like Karate and not just helpless flailing that is usually seen in some videos that depict arts vs. arts.

Can anyone figure out where it was filmed? It sounds like some Arabic country, but I am not certain.

Ummm...the "Kung Fu" guy won; or I should say the guy who was wearing the Kung Fu uniform and who the poster of the video said was the Kung Fu practitioner . To tell you the truth neither one really looked like they were using Kung Fu except for the initial sweep that the guy in the Kung Fu outfit uses.
oh, ok, that's for clearing that up! I say the dude in the white gee, was put in there with a Master with a higher degree of training. The dude in the RED anticipated his every move, except for the spontaneous blows.

Out of all the fights I have seen on video about style vs. style. This one is the first video that I have seen that both representatives actually fought with good form. The kung-Fu looked like Kung-Fu and the Karate looked like Karate and not just helpless flailing that is usually seen in some videos that depict arts vs. arts.

Can anyone figure out where it was filmed? It sounds like some Arabic country, but I am not certain.
down on the left hand side of the screen it says the dudes names, style....and then it says Mahul 1999.

Out of all the fights I have seen on video about style vs. style. This one is the first video that I have seen that both representatives actually fought with good form. The kung-Fu looked like Kung-Fu and the Karate looked like Karate and not just helpless flailing that is usually seen in some videos that depict arts vs. arts.

Can anyone figure out where it was filmed? It sounds like some Arabic country, but I am not certain.

Looks like Pakistan to me.

Oh and your right, I guess i was thinking more of the Northern Styles of Kung Fu but yes the form of both is good. lol Best to put a Southern artist against a tae kwon Do guy a Northern one would have hurt him even worse :tapedshut

idk i said if you take real martial arts their all equal.. if you had a real instructor you will be prepared as anyone if their trying to tell you to use pressure points in a fight then **** that place thats not legit idk about krav maga but besides that every style i know will teach you how to throw down except maybe akido
my sifu or professor was 8th degree i think, doesnt really matter.. he had black belts in jui jitsu as well... his belt was so tattered and old its really grey and looks like the belt on a bathrobe.
yea and when people think of the lamest, easiest karate to beat they think tae kwon do... well thats cause in america its geared for children, and the parents dont want violence, just an activity. i Know, i talk to the instructors and the kids parents complain to them, and plus i used to instruct it's brother-art tang soo do, which is more strike oriented. but trust me its legit and the high kicks are just the sport aspect of it, they teach you ho sin sul(self defense). martial arts are exactly what their name says, war-like arts. theyve been tested at war before tae kwon do, or kung fu was practiced. but then differnt arts are made, as viariations of the same style so you can tell what was what by its stance or type of strikes, same principles

To an extent you're right. Fights are broken down to a few factors: Mentality, Experience, Stylistic Advantage, Conditioning, Knowledge of Opponent, Size, Speed, etc. Those seven play a major part in the outcome in a fight. Neither one of those seven are the absolute determining factor in a fight, but the greater amount of factors that someone has in his favor, then obviously the more likely it will turn out in his favor.

BTW, not all styles are equal. If that were the case, I need to enroll in Rexkwondo since it's cheaper then all the TMA classes. There are a lot of styles or at least aspects of styles that are not real world applicable (ie. doing multiple pressure point pushing when the opponent could easily punch you with his other hand or just pull away the arm you're messing with.)

Not to take nothing from Tae-Kwan-Do, extremely fast reflexes, and the timing was superb. I saw the Kung Fu as a "Newly" ranked Black belt. Meaning he just earn his belt, and they put him up against a Master. I think If you have a "Master" Kung Fu representive, or like a 4th degree Black belt, It would've been more interesting to say the least. Looking at it, It seemed as if the the dude in the red already knew what the guy was gonna throw, his counter strikes were quick and precise. Kung Fu sets himself up for a round house (dead give away!) and Brother Lao Lao
counters it. The inexperience of the Kung Fu dude (snarling, grunting) left himself open, no discipline.if u have 2 minutes please read this if you think 1 style is better than another
YES, all styles are created equal. i told you were not talking about fake karate dude.

u guys are soo wrong about oh i saw this guy fight this guy and caus this guy knew kung fu he had him figured outt...
dude i talk to guys who are ****ing professors in martial arts all the time

its not the art its understanding that martial arts IS A SCIENCE(thats y there professors)

once you figure out how the science works it doesnt matter what you take, if that guy could figure out what the other dude was doing, the other guy doesnt understand why hes telegraphing, nothing to do with tae kwon do, hes not being taught his art correctly or at least the key aspects.

when i chamber a kick, it looks as if i could throw a roundhouse, sidekick, or inside-out until the last second. the other guy prob throws the same kick the same way every time.
my sensi will look like hes going to throw a roundhouse, so i block the right side, then he just reverses direction and goes the other way and hits me with the heel of his foot on the left. when u think u have him figured out he just does the opposite, till you get confused and when u think uve got his tactics down, he'll just be predictable cause your over thinking his attack and do the most basic stuff and hit you.

like i said, im not talking about rexkwon do im talking BOUT REAL martial arts

karate is like boxing. boxing is ****ing boxing. but now we got like super greg boxing vs ted boxing, and ted wears red gloves instead of greg, and gregs holds his hands different. they have different "styles"
WHOEVER GETS THE GAME and understands the sport more wins
like i said fake karate doesnt count its a scam u think ppl in korea were doing rexkwon do 300 years ago defending their families

the best way to explain karate is that you got to proverbaly open windows for your attack, you cant just go right for the head every time. like in boxing, u see what i guy does when u feint or attack to his body. if he puts his arms down, next time fake low, then blast him in the head. its like chess. the guy prob had the tae kwon dude figured out cause he would be very predictable in how he protects himself. he prob knew that every time i kick his knee, his hands go down

hate the player, not the game. the game is the same in every style, just the player might not understand it or be taught it cause all their instructors care about is selling belts and making that loot


i know this guy, who does kempo. he knows more than this guy and always beats him, cause he does tae kwon do. it MUST be because kempo is better, right?:ugh:

if u have 2 minutes please read this if you think 1 style is better than another
YES, all styles are created equal. i told you were not talking about fake karate dude.

u guys are soo wrong about oh i saw this guy fight this guy and caus this guy knew kung fu he had him figured outt...
dude i talk to guys who are ****ing professors in martial arts all the time

its not the art its understanding that martial arts IS A SCIENCE(thats y there professors)

once you figure out how it works it doesnt matter what you take, if that guy could figure out what the other dude was doing, the other guy doesnt understand why hes telegraphing, nothing to do with tae kwon do, hes not being taught his art correctly or at least the key aspects.

when i chamber a kick, it looks as if i could throw a roundhouse, sidekick, or inside-out until the last second. the other guy prob throws the same kick the same way every time.
my sensi will look like hes going to throw a roundhouse, so i block the right side, then he just reverses direction and goes the other way and hits me with the heel of his foot on the left. when u think u have him figured out he just does the opposite, till you get confused and when u think uve got his tactics down, he'll just be predictable cause your over thinking his attack and do the most basic stuff and hit you.

like i said, im not talking about rexkwon do im talking BOUT REAL martial arts

karate is like boxing. boxing is ****ing boxing. but now we got like super greg boxing vs ted boxing, and ted wears red gloves instead of greg, and gregs holds his hands different. they have different "styles"
WHOEVER GETS THE GAME and understands the sport more wins
like i said fake karate doesnt count its a scam u think ppl in korea were doing rexkwon do 300 years ago defending their families

the best way to explain karate is that you got to proverbaly open windows for your attack, you cant just go right for the head every time. like in boxing, u see what i guy does when u feint or attack to his body. if he puts his arms down, next time fake low, then blast him in the head. its like chess. the guy prob had the tae kwon dude figured out cause he would be very predictable in how he protects himself. he prob knew that every time i kick his knee, his hands go down

hate the player, not the game. the game is the same in every style, just the player might not understand it or be taught it cause all their instructors care about is selling belts and making that loot


i know this guy, who does kempo. he knows more than this guy and always beats him, cause he does tae kwon do. it MUST be because kempo is better, right?:ugh:

Yes, the individual is more important than the style.

yea sorry about that...lol

if u have 2 minutes please read this if you think 1 style is better than another
YES, all styles are created equal. i told you were not talking about fake karate dude.

u guys are soo wrong about oh i saw this guy fight this guy and caus this guy knew kung fu he had him figured outt...
dude i talk to guys who are ****ing professors in martial arts all the time

its not the art its understanding that martial arts IS A SCIENCE(thats y there professors)

once you figure out how the science works it doesnt matter what you take, if that guy could figure out what the other dude was doing, the other guy doesnt understand why hes telegraphing, nothing to do with tae kwon do, hes not being taught his art correctly or at least the key aspects.

when i chamber a kick, it looks as if i could throw a roundhouse, sidekick, or inside-out until the last second. the other guy prob throws the same kick the same way every time.
my sensi will look like hes going to throw a roundhouse, so i block the right side, then he just reverses direction and goes the other way and hits me with the heel of his foot on the left. when u think u have him figured out he just does the opposite, till you get confused and when u think uve got his tactics down, he'll just be predictable cause your over thinking his attack and do the most basic stuff and hit you.

like i said, im not talking about rexkwon do im talking BOUT REAL martial arts

karate is like boxing. boxing is ****ing boxing. but now we got like super greg boxing vs ted boxing, and ted wears red gloves instead of greg, and gregs holds his hands different. they have different "styles"
WHOEVER GETS THE GAME and understands the sport more wins
like i said fake karate doesnt count its a scam u think ppl in korea were doing rexkwon do 300 years ago defending their families

the best way to explain karate is that you got to proverbaly open windows for your attack, you cant just go right for the head every time. like in boxing, u see what i guy does when u feint or attack to his body. if he puts his arms down, next time fake low, then blast him in the head. its like chess. the guy prob had the tae kwon dude figured out cause he would be very predictable in how he protects himself. he prob knew that every time i kick his knee, his hands go down

hate the player, not the game. the game is the same in every style, just the player might not understand it or be taught it cause all their instructors care about is selling belts and making that loot


i know this guy, who does kempo. he knows more than this guy and always beats him, cause he does tae kwon do. it MUST be because kempo is better, right?:ugh:


I think it is taken for granted that the level of advancement and personal skill of the individual comes into the equation when you compare two people practicing two different martial arts. Thus questions that put one martial art against another in that context usually assume that the practitioners of each ought to be as equal in development and skill as possible. The question is who wins then?

I have always believed that every martial art could be effective within the proper context only being sceptical of three in particular: Aikido, Capoiera and Tae kwon Do (and the last one less so than the other two). I think there are historical justifications for scepticism in these cases. Capoeira was invented in the midst of an attempt to conceal it's technique within dance moves so this immediately adds an element of inefficiency to it. Aikido was invented as a passive form of self defense and so it limited itself from the start. Finally Tae Kwon Do is a sport that evolved from an earlier ancestor that actually was a serious form of self defense. However the sports elements of Tae Kwon Do's evolution limit it.

When comparing arts there is also context to think about. Some arts are better for the kind of sparring we saw in the video than other arts. However many of those same "other arts" are better in real life or death situations. I disagree with the idea that almost every art is equal to every other art if that means they can all do the same things equally. However if it means that almost every art has a niche in which it is extremely effective than I do agree.

I think it is taken for granted that the level of advancement and personal skill of the individual comes into the equation when you compare two people practicing two different martial arts. Thus questions that put one martial art against another in that context usually assume that the practitioners of each ought to be as equal in development and skill as possible. The question is who wins then?

I have always believed that every martial art could be effective within the proper context only being sceptical of three in particular: Aikido, Capoiera and Tae kwon Do (and the last one less so than the other two). I think there are historical justifications for scepticism in these cases. Capoeira was invented in the midst of an attempt to conceal it's technique within dance moves so this immediately adds an element of inefficiency to it. Aikido was invented as a passive form of self defense and so it limited itself from the start. Finally Tae Kwon Do is a sport that evolved from an earlier ancestor that actually was a serious form of self defense. However the sports elements of Tae Kwon Do's evolution limit it.

When comparing arts there is also context to think about. Some arts are better for the kind of sparring we saw in the video than other arts. However many of those same "other arts" are better in real life or death situations. I disagree with the idea that almost every art is equal to every other art if that means they can all do the same things equally. However if it means that almost every art has a niche in which it is extremely effective than I do agree.

true, im just saying i took both kung fu and takekwondo, but i didnt learn the science of it until kung fu and i didnt learn what the forms ment until then. then i got twice as good. alot of people would say thats because kung fu is better. my sifu was just smarter than the TKD instructor happened to be, and he wasnt trained by americans. if you learn the art of fighting my friend, the martial art, warlike art, then style is irrelevant. yes some teachers will teach you how to be better at point sparring, and others will show you how to cripple some one. and if you are built to grapple and your not very quick, then a supple, smooth art like kung fu isnt really the best for you to make the best fighter out of you asap. yes some arts will teach you to be able to beat someone up in less time than other arts which could take years for you to master, but if you become profecient in any art and really know what your doing it shouldnt matter. see im not sure if your saying make 2 guys train seperatly in 2 differnt arts for a year and see who wins kind of deal, but im saying if you really learn an art you will be able to fight

taekwondo is more of a sport in korea, or in the olympics. people seem to want to learn the sport version of it. but the kun sin sool, the self defense, is seperate and still practiced and has tried to seperate itself from the sport aspect, for exactly why you said people dont really respect TKD

like bruce lee said, the best style is no style.
cause in reality its all just an illusion or a gimic. just take what works and use it.

true, im just saying i took both kung fu and takekwondo, but i didnt learn the science of it until kung fu and i didnt learn what the forms ment until then. then i got twice as good. alot of people would say thats because kung fu is better. my sifu was just smarter than the TKD instructor happened to be, and he wasnt trained by americans. if you learn the art of fighting my friend, the martial art, warlike art, then style is irrelevant. yes some teachers will teach you how to be better at point sparring, and others will show you how to cripple some one. and if you are built to grapple and your not very quick, then a supple, smooth art like kung fu isnt really the best for you to make the best fighter out of you asap. yes some arts will teach you to be able to beat someone up in less time than other arts which could take years for you to master, but if you become profecient in any art and really know what your doing it shouldnt matter. see im not sure if your saying make 2 guys train seperatly in 2 differnt arts for a year and see who wins kind of deal, but im saying if you really learn an art you will be able to fight

taekwondo is more of a sport in korea, or in the olympics. people seem to want to learn the sport version of it. but the kun sin sool, the self defense, is seperate and still practiced and has tried to seperate itself from the sport aspect, for exactly why you said people dont really respect TKD

like bruce lee said, the best style is no style.
cause in reality its all just an illusion or a gimic. just take what works and use it.

Nice post!

true, im just saying i took both kung fu and takekwondo, but i didnt learn the science of it until kung fu and i didnt learn what the forms ment until then. then i got twice as good. alot of people would say thats because kung fu is better. my sifu was just smarter than the TKD instructor happened to be, and he wasnt trained by americans. if you learn the art of fighting my friend, the martial art, warlike art, then style is irrelevant. yes some teachers will teach you how to be better at point sparring, and others will show you how to cripple some one. and if you are built to grapple and your not very quick, then a supple, smooth art like kung fu isnt really the best for you to make the best fighter out of you asap. yes some arts will teach you to be able to beat someone up in less time than other arts which could take years for you to master, but if you become profecient in any art and really know what your doing it shouldnt matter. see im not sure if your saying make 2 guys train seperatly in 2 differnt arts for a year and see who wins kind of deal, but im saying if you really learn an art you will be able to fight

taekwondo is more of a sport in korea, or in the olympics. people seem to want to learn the sport version of it. but the kun sin sool, the self defense, is seperate and still practiced and has tried to seperate itself from the sport aspect, for exactly why you said people dont really respect TKD

like bruce lee said, the best style is no style.
cause in reality its all just an illusion or a gimic. just take what works and use it.



Interesting.

I didn't mention anything about how long the two people trained in their art though, I only said that they were to be equally developed and skilled in their own art.


Great quote from Lee and that quote is exactly why Bruce lee borrowed from different styles. He knew each style was good at different kinds of things, and good in different types of situations. In order to be prepared for any type of situation he believed he would have to borrow from each of them. Ofcourse if any style was sufficient for everything in itself this type of approach would be unecessary. Lee thought we shouldn't be limited by styles.
You are right that anyone who really learns an art will be able to fight, it is just that learning certain types of arts will have a tendency to enable you to fight better in certain types of situations than in others. That is why I believe almost every martial art has something valuable to teach.

You made a great point about physical build being a factor in the way an individual should train too.

thanks
i said this earlier that martial arts is just like boxing, but now people just put different names on the same thing and teach you different stances or how to hold your hands diferent, just like each gym is different. Some teachers come from china, japan or korea. some rest their power hands on their chin, some reach their lead hand out further to sort of paw at you. Some hop around you and some just stand there. its still the same game, just little variations that disguise it.

you guys have seen forms, or katas before right? you know when you see the guy by himself bow,then throw like 2 punches, then turn around, kick, go left punch, right punch, you know like hes practing for a brawl or something lol.
well i think the main hangup with people and taekwondo(the main form of **** karate for some reason, its the name people recognize) from what ive heard is that alot of people who take it are never taught what the "attackers" are doing and feel like their just standing their throwing punches into the air. but when i took kung fu, we would actually get 3 guys when im doing the forms and have them play the attackers part of the form and show you why the form works. just better quality

this is a form if you don't know what i mean
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MYEDSVTans4&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MYEDSVTans4&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

see i know people who trained in karate for years and this still looks like dancing to them. but every move he makes hes imagining pretend oponents, and reacting. every move is for a reason and shows a concept of martial arts

thanks
i said this earlier that martial arts is just like boxing, but now people just put different names on the same thing and teach you different stances or how to hold your hands diferent, just like each gym is different. Some teachers come from china, japan or korea. some rest their power hands on their chin, some reach their lead hand out further to sort of paw at you. Some hop around you and some just stand there. its still the same game, just little variations that disguise it.

you guys have seen forms, or katas before right? you know when you see the guy by himself bow,then throw like 2 punches, then turn around, kick, go left punch, right punch, you know like hes practing for a brawl or something lol.
well i think the main hangup with people and taekwondo(the main form of **** karate for some reason, its the name people recognize) from what ive heard is that alot of people who take it are never taught what the "attackers" are doing and feel like their just standing their throwing punches into the air. but when i took kung fu, we would actually get 3 guys when im doing the forms and have them play the attackers part of the form and show you why the form works. just better quality

this is a form if you don't know what i mean
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MYEDSVTans4&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MYEDSVTans4&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

see i know people who trained in karate for years and this still looks like dancing to them. but every move he makes hes imagining pretend oponents, and reacting. every move is for a reason and shows a concept of martial arts


The widespread scepticism toward the traditional martial arts that you see in many places nowadays didn't really appear untill the early 90's. In the 80's the ancient arts were all still revered. In the early 90's you began seeing magazine articles beginning to really question certain aspects of the traditional arts and the scapegoat for everything that was wrong with the traditional martial arts was the high kick. "High kicks almost never work", "high kicks will get you killed", you saw that written everywhere. There were articles in MA magazines recounting old news stories about Black belts being killed in street encounters. The low kick was en vogue then and especially leg kicks. All of the martial arts magazine articles were about how wonderful low kicks were. Then the UFC came in 93. Royce Gracie took out an entire crew of traditional martial arts strikers in one tournament and that was the straw that broke the camels back. Everyone jumped completely on the "traditional martial arts are useless" bandwagon.

Now it was right before the UFC and the coming of the grappling craze that i decided to take a martial art from the studio right next to my school. The studio instructed in Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do. I didn't want to take Tae Kwon Do because of all of the anti-high kick stuff that was in the air at the time. But I was signed up for the studio and the Hapkido teacher never came so I became a Tae kwon Do student. Now I wouldn't trade my time there for anything. The place instilled great mental toughness. First night there I saw a guy get kicked in the head with a spinning turn kick by the head master so hard it knocked his helmit off (intimidating!). If a guy got kicked in the groin during sparring he usually had to keep going. All push ups done there were knuckle push ups on the hard wood floor, and I was once ordered to do 100 of them for being late to class. The only weakness in this place I would say was technical. I mean during sparring i would watch two fighters kicking and then ending up right in front of one another in punching range. Instead of punching, they just backed up so that they could kick each other again.:lol1:
What would happen on the street? This is the reason that I preferred the training in jeet Kune Do, that I started a few years later.

I know about Katas and I was not a big fan of them, but actually the way of training that you just described where a kata practioner uses live opponents is really interesting. If it had been taught to me like that maybe I wouldn't have despised it so.

yup it was cool, cause even though i went from a korean art to a chinese one, the forms were virtually the same. so i showed them to my instructor, and he showed me what i was doing wrong,what it actually ment, and why it worked. the forms are just principles, you know like laws of a science. theyre the laws of fighting.
the first moves in the first form i learned was a front kick. now i didnt know this, but it is supposed to be defending against an attack throwing a punch. theres your first law of karate: the leg is always longer than the arm.(its not like leg vs arm, leg wins, but something to think about)then you learn the straight punch is always faster than a hook, and if thrown at the same time the straight is the counter punch of a looping attack(fastest way from point A to point B is a straight Line).
then you start learning action and reactions, like if you hit someone in the stomach, then they lean forward, exposing their face for an uppercut. if you punch someone in the forehead, then they tend to lean back or jerk their weight back exposing their stomach. so just with that you could figure out a real nice way to put together a 3 punch combo.then it gets more complicated and you learn that if you control someones head, you control their body and it gets alot easier to throw someone around. its not the easiest thing to be able to just grab someones head and control it, but if you have someone you train with give it a shot, if you control the direction of their head the body follows, its like the anchor, and the basis of akido.

i know exactly what ur saying res, my biggest problems with my old karate was all we did was forms, that just looked like punching air. then we would do really light sparring, and alot of ppl will be right up close and back up to throw kicks. but another principle i learned is that while the leg beats a punch at far range, the punches jam the leg up close and you would tool on someone if they kept trying to do that
ur also right about the high kick stuff, keep that in the dojo. taking a foot off the ground takes a way half your balance, probably more, and leaves you really vulnerable to a takedown. and you never know you could just slip. unless your alot taller than the person and you know it would be easy, then i dont think you really have to worry about it at all and you know youll win if your really contemplating throwing a roundhouse at someones head

Interesting.

I didn't mention anything about how long the two people trained in their art though, I only said that they were to be equally developed and skilled in their own art.


Great quote from Lee and that quote is exactly why Bruce lee borrowed from different styles. He knew each style was good at different kinds of things, and good in different types of situations. In order to be prepared for any type of situation he believed he would have to borrow from each of them. Ofcourse if any style was sufficient for everything in itself this type of approach would be unnecessary. Lee thought we shouldn't be limited by styles.
You are right that anyone who really learns an art will be able to fight, it is just that learning certain types of arts will have a tendency to enable you to fight better in certain types of situations than in others. That is why I believe almost every martial art has something valuable to teach.

You made a great point about physical build being a factor in the way an individual should train too.


yea a friend ive trained with for a long time who is alot bigger than me and has more weight started training with me in tkd and kung fu at the same time as i started. im very quick and flexible, and i took to it very well and was sparring with the black belts in a few months and holding it down. now he could punch but his kicks were just not improving, he could barely kick above his waist or with any authority. he also wasnt very fast, but strong. the art just wasnt made for him to excell in or compete with(dont get me wrong he was still learning alot). i always beat him when we sparred. I told him he should try BJJ. He had no experience in wrestling and he and i were prob just as good, so he stopped the kung fu and started taking judo and brazilian jiu jitsu. now he can just take me out to the ground and wrestle me into a submission as easily as i could land kicks to his head, he found his niche, not to stand up and trade shots, but to take it to the ground. He's just as good a fighter as me now but has a different style

as a guy who is trained in a traditional style of chinese combat, i have to say that there are some really bad teachers out there. perhaps, misguided would be a better word. for every one or two guys who know their ****, there is atleast 20/30 who don't.

another problem is ignorance. many people who watch the ufc today have no idea that full contact fighting events have existed for a very, very long time. what happened to them you might wonder. the chinese government. during the cultural revolution, practice of fighting arts were extremely discouraged which led to it being practiced secretly. i am no historian, so that is as far as i will take that. thankfully, much has changed.

today, there are still great teachers out there. it has been my privilege to meet and learn a bit from few other than my teacher.

the link below has a bit of info about a modern day legend. and a video link as well. he is a kung fu brother of my teacher and is badass. believe me on this one. very fun guy too:

http://formosaneijia.com/2007/su-dong-chen/

another guy who can be absolutely scary. like the guy above, he is also an accomplished full contact fighter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pddfqUx0v80

i have met and learned things from both of the above(they both share the same teacher as mine does from back in the days.)

tang shou tao school of japan:

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apparently, the tang shou tao japan school clip is not available on youtube anymore. if you want to see it, PM me. it is definitely worth it. it shows light chinese boxing sparring and technique work and has a few snippets from full contact tourneys in it.

This is some crazy ****!

Genki Sudo doing his best against these traditionalist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-5SVkgRTVs&feature=related

these guys that genki - i love genki btw, he kicks ass - is striking have used one of the iron body conditioning regimines. there are a number of different ways that can build up this level of resistence to strikes. these guys obviously have trained one of the methods.

one method uses a methodical lightly "beating" of the body with bags(for example) filled with various materials ranging from softer to harder materials in addition to a liniment that increases recovery time from bruises and tears. gradually, over time, the body's tissue increases in thickness and durability.

another method, which is considered of a higher level, uses breathing exercises, and specific training to increase the mind's control of the body. part of this training involves learning how to increase or decrease the pressure whithin the body.

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do you know anything about iron shirt or if its real

do you know anything about iron shirt or if its real

lol check this out.

Looks unreal but this guy has been around for a while and has even appeared on channels like Discovery with his students hooked up to scientific equipment.


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lol check this out.

Looks unreal but this guy has been around for a while and has even appeared on channels like Discovery with his students hooked up to scientific equipment.


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dude thats insane esp with the 4 punches at once

isnt iron shirt involving blades tho and you dont bleed?

dude thats insane esp with the 4 punches at once

isnt iron shirt involving blades tho and you dont bleed?


That may be an additonal aspect of it but both the Chinese art as well as japanese equivalents such as what I posted have always stressed the hand to hand combat aspect. If there was an armed version it probably decreased in popularity with the cessation of tradional warfare but there may be some that still teach it. There are certainly particular demonstrations from Shaolin Monks and from others that demonstrate the resiliance of the body to sharp metal.

do you know anything about iron shirt or if its real


iron shirt is very real. it is still practiced by many today.

That may be an additonal aspect of it but both the Chinese art as well as japanese equivalents such as what I posted have always stressed the hand to hand combat aspect. If there was an armed version it probably decreased in popularity with the cessation of tradional warfare but there may be some that still teach it. There are certainly particular demonstrations from Shaolin Monks and from others that demonstrate the resiliance of the body to sharp metal.

it's not the resilience to sharp/semi sharp objects that it's usefullness is for. it was researched and created hundred's of years ago to enable martial artists to be able to withstand punches and kicks from other fighters.

res, rereading your post i see we both agree on it's uses.

hand to hand - most definitely. but for weapons, it is certainly not advised. the added thickness and reselience from the conditioning of the hard method, and the pressure control of the soft method may help lessen the damage from a blade, but a skilled fighter with a spear of sword would still be able to puncture the skin fairly easily if square on.

this site was obviously put together by the gracies to sell their style. funny !!!!!!

this site was obviously put together by the gracies to sell their style. funny !!!!!!

what do you mean by that, buddy? i hope you are not being sarcastic.

if you are, by chance, being sarcastic - there are ways of dealing with you people - that is, if you are a tough guy wannabe. if you have problems with us mma, or tma guys, i'll fight you straight up. get back to me.

otherwise, we're cool, and forget i mentioned a challenge. but i hope you are not laughing off us MA people. not good idea.