I predicted this would happen with uneducated fighters, and I am truly sad that it has.

http://mmajunkie.com/2007/12/02/mma-fighter-sam-vasquez-dies-weeks-after-fight-story-from-yahoo-sports/#comments


MMA Fighter Sam Vasquez Dies Weeks After Fight (Story from Yahoo! Sports)
Posted by Dave Meltzer on December 2, 2007 at 10:27 pm ET

by Dave Meltzer/Yahoo! Sports
(Reprinted from Yahoo! Sports with permission)

Sam Vasquez of Houston may have become the first fighter to die from injuries sustained in mixed martial arts competition in North America.

A report by The Fight Network cited the Harris County (Texas) medical examiner’s office confirming Vasquez’s death at 8:15 p.m. Friday. The cause of death was not released.

Vasquez had been battling for his life since taking a hard right to the chin from 21-year old Vince Libardi on Oct. 20 during a Renegades Extreme Fighting show at the Toyota Center in Houston. The blow knocked Vasquez out and he was rushed to St. Joseph Medical Center, where he stayed until moving to hospice care on Monday.

The 35-year-old Vasquez was competing in the featherweight division (145 pound weight class) in the third match of a 12-match card promoted by Saul Soliz, the longtime boxing coach of Ultimate Fighting Championship superstar Tito Ortiz. The show was overseen by the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation. Calls to the department on Sunday were not immediately returned.

After taking a flurry of punches from Libardi, Vasquez collapsed in the ring and the fight was waved off at 2:50 of the third round. Emergency medical technicians worked on him in the ring for several minutes until he suffered what appeared to be a seizure and was rushed to the hospital.

Vasquez’s condition worsened from there. On Nov. 4, two weeks after being admitted, he underwent the first of two surgeries to relieve the pressure of a large clot in his brain, then had a massive stroke on Nov. 9 and was placed in a medically induced coma.


Choose your degree...


Vasquez, who had a seven-year-old son, came into the match with a 1-1 record, and had not fought in 13 months. Libardi, 14 years Vasquez’s junior, entered the match with seven pro fights and 10 rounds of action over three fights in the time since Vasquez had last fought in Sept. 2006.

“There was nothing out of the ordinary,” Paul Erickson, who was at ringside taking photos, said in an interview with The Fight Network. “They scrambled and hit the cage. Sammy stood up and looked a little wobbly. Then he went down and the referee called the doctor in. It didn’t seem like anything was out of the ordinary. Sammy was winded and looked exhausted, but he wasn’t unconscious when they carried him out. Everyone was puzzled at the time because no one could tell when or where he was injured.“

MMA had until recently been considered highly controversial, and a group of critics led by Sen. John McCain caused it to be banned in several states in the mid-to-late 1990s and pressured cable companies to not air its pay-per-view events.

In the past two-and-a-half years, though, the sport exploded in popularity due to television exposure of UFC, the sport’s major league franchise. UFC’s success has spawned hundreds of smaller promotions around North America with many states now holding more MMA events than boxing events.

Mixed martial arts officials and fans have long noted that there had never been a death in a sanctioned MMA match, a statistic no other combat sport could claim.

The only confirmed death prior to government oversight came when 31-year-old Douglas Dedge of Chipley, Fla. passed away on March 18, 1998, from severe brain injuries suffered in a match two days earlier at a non-sanctioned event called World Super Challenge in Russia. Dedge had passed out in a training session leading up to the fight, but went through with the match anyway.

Dave Meltzer covers mixed martial arts for Yahoo! Sports. Meltzer, who has published the pro wrestling trade industry publication the Wrestling Observer Newsletter since 1982, began covering MMA with UFC 1 in 1993. This story originally appeared on Yahoo! Sports and is syndicated on MMAjunkie.com as part of a content-partnership deal between the two sites.

Damn. That's sad. I think the gloves will have to be nerfed even further. I wouldn't be surprised to see the UFC turn into something like K-1.

Yeah I can see them overpadding the gloves even more now. It was inevitable that someone was gonna die eventually.

R.I.P

Damn. That's sad. I think the gloves will have to be nerfed even further. I wouldn't be surprised to see the UFC turn into something like K-1.

that will make ufc crap with those k-1 gloves.

there goes another one of UFC's main arguments about why 'UFC is better then boxing'.

there goes another one of UFC's main arguments about why 'UFC is better then boxing'.

Another one? What were the other ones that went down the drain??? None *****. Tell me how many boxers died over the years???

Another one? What were the other ones that went down the drain??? None *****. Tell me how many boxers died over the years???

MMA has been a sport for only like 13 years you douchebag. And the article says 'first MMA Death in USA', there's gotta be way more in the rest of the world.

Another argument? Well, UFC has been boring as ****....there hasn't been an exciting fight since Silva ass kicked Rich the second time. Other then that, without a Silva or GSP fight, the fights have been crap dating back to UFC 68,

There was another death over in Russia somewhere. Their will be a group of people with no lives that will now tryed to get MMA banned. **** it almost happend like 8 years ago.

i've read about this somewhere 2, in the version i read though he had problems with his head b4 he got in the fight.....damn clowns shouldn't have let him fight.
MMA better than Boxing, Boxings better than MMA.....meh i think its just a matter of personal taste, don't know why everyone gets so worked up over one or the other. me personaly i'm a mma fan jus cause i know more about it than boxing i suppose, but i liked watching the ol Ali Fights as well as a few others.
a death in a sanctioned mma event is pretty sad news, and i'm sure the pro boxing guys who didn't like mma 2 begin with are goin 2 have a field day an jump all over it 2 bash mma as a whole instead of the half assed company that let the guy fight injured.
i don't think it will cause everyone 2 fight with thicker gloves like K-1, maybe a check up b4 each fight 2 make sure the person is able 2 fight safely, that may even give them a heads up on the clowns tryin 2 go in with Steroids.

MMA has been a sport for only like 13 years you douchebag. And the article says 'first MMA Death in USA', there's gotta be way more in the rest of the world.

Another argument? Well, UFC has been boring as ****....there hasn't been an exciting fight since Silva ass kicked Rich the second time. Other then that, without a Silva or GSP fight, the fights have been crap dating back to UFC 68,

When was the last great fight in boxing???? Jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, most of them miss then they tigh up, ****ing boring man. Tell me, what was the last exciting boxing match you've seen of heard of? ****ing retard. Get the **** outta here, go catch aids and die.

When was the last great fight in boxing???? Jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, most of them miss then they tigh up, ****ing boring man. Tell me, what was the last exciting boxing match you've seen of heard of? ****ing retard. Get the **** outta here, go catch aids and die.

Please tell me.No flaming or joking. Why are you on a site thats mainly about boxing when you talk down about it like you've done in this post? Thats like going to a hiphop forum and the mini forum inside it is rock,so you just talk **** about rap in the rock and the hiphop forum.

You dont like Sherdog? Or MMA Tv?

On a sidenote.I cant wait to see what happens with MMA now.Its hit the homeland and they dont take deaths from a sport too lightly. I say bigger gloves but no banning.

as long as they aint big as sissy boxing gloves, im good.

On a sidenote.I cant wait to see what happens with MMA now.Its hit the homeland and they dont take deaths from a sport too lightly. I say bigger gloves but no banning.

Bigger gloves would really hurt MMA, it would make BJJ even more difficult. Just a few years ago they had it banned from TV and even PPV. Props for Dana White on getting that over turned.

But what are you doing in the MMA forum?

this really sucks for mma
until the exact cause of death is announced (which one can assume head trama) im not gonna say much. i just hope this wont affect the way the sport is perceived. mma is just now starting to be accepted and i hope this doesnt f it up. i feel bad for the fighter and his family. it is possible he was not properly checked by the doctors b4 the fight or he had previous head trama but what do i know.
when you think about having someone in the mount position and dropping down elbows on someone's head and how hard you can hit someone with your elbow...it make you think how often could something like this could happen.
hopefully this will be it.

it will still remain SURPREME!!!!!!!!!:p

Bigger gloves would really hurt MMA, it would make BJJ even more difficult. Just a few years ago they had it banned from TV and even PPV. Props for Dana White on getting that over turned.

But what are you doing in the MMA forum?

Ppl will cry like usual and try to get it banned also.Well if the glove thing doesnt work. I admit,those gloves are small as **** and can cause tons of damage with just a few hits.

as long as they aint big as sissy boxing gloves, im good.

Ya didnt answer my quote.:wave:

When was the last great fight in boxing???? Jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, most of them miss then they tigh up, ****ing boring man. Tell me, what was the last exciting boxing match you've seen of heard of? ****ing retard. Get the **** outta here, go catch aids and die.

Every superfight in the past two or three months has been super action packed and great fights. I can't say that about most of the UFC garbage cards that Dana has put on.

Don't get me wrong, I love MMA as a sport. It's just all the basement dwelling, redneck, trashy losers with menial jobs and lives that seem to love the sport for the blood and guts. Guys like yourself and your ugly little posse you had in your avatar.

Every superfight in the past two or three months has been super action packed and great fights. I can't say that about most of the UFC garbage cards that Dana has put on.

Don't get me wrong, I love MMA as a sport. It's just all the basement dwelling, redneck, trashy losers with menial jobs and lives that seem to love the sport for the blood and guts. Guys like yourself and your ugly little posse you had in your avatar.

1st: of all Dana dont make the fight cards, joe silva does.
2nd: Action packed boxing....hahaha
3rd: You dont love MMA, for u insult the sport more than the fans.
4th: Why do you love boxing?
5th: Im the only one that really watches MMA out of the old av.
6th: why are you here??

Ya didnt answer my quote.:wave:

I already answered that there VERS, I googled MMA discussion and it brought me here then I rejistered, happy??

I already answered that there VERS, I googled MMA discussion and it brought me here then I rejistered, happy??

You didnt answer that at first. Well anyway you know Sherdog and MMA tv now. Feel free to leave if you dony like boxing as much.:wave:

You didnt answer that at first. Well anyway you know Sherdog and MMA tv now. Feel free to leave if you dony like boxing as much.:wave:

How bout Nooo you smurfy bastard, I think I will stick around...I mean, Im not gonna leave cause mr vers told me to. Boxing maybe fun to learn but boring to watch, kapeesh.

How bout Nooo you smurfy bastard, I think I will stick around...I mean, Im not gonna leave cause mr vers told me to. Boxing maybe fun to learn but boring to watch, kapeesh.

I didnt tell you to leave. I said feel free if you want too.

naw homie, ima be staying 4life gangster, nawmean.

Why so many bananas??

MMA has been a sport for only like 13 years you douchebag.


21 years.

MMA has been a sport for 21 years.

And this is the first death in a sanctioned match. There were two other deaths, but both fighters fought in unsactioned bouts with pre-existing conditions. Doug Dench was even kicked off his team and banned in the US due to his condition.

And just to clear everything up, everyone did their part from the promoters to the fighters to the commission. Everything was by the book and there we're no corners cut. There was no need to hide anything.

All we have to do is wait for the autopsy to see what happened and to see if anything can be tweaked to make things better.

And this wasn't just some slapboard promotion that runs everytime a money mark feels the urge. This was a competant amatuer league run by members and friends of Tito Ortiz. So, they know what's involved in running these things.

If anyone from any combat sport, be it Boxing or MMA want to send condolences or donations, please send it to this address.

TEXAS MMA FIGHT SHOP
c/o Sammy Vasquez
5720 Mobud
San Antonio, Texas 78238

21 years.

MMA has been a sport for 21 years.

And this is the first death in a sanctioned match. There were two other deaths, but both fighters fought in unsactioned bouts with pre-existing conditions. Doug Dench was even kicked off his team and banned in the US due to his condition.

21 years? where? not here in the US, If you call those Vale Tudo Matches Rickson Gracie used to fight a sport, then I guess rio heroes is a sport too. MMA wasnt even licensed in nevada till about 7 years ago.

And somebody please ban that troll, everyone know's who he is.

Shooto started in Japan in 1986

im sad about it happering but i said it would and everyone said it will not happen. it also looks bad on the sport too.

And somebody please ban that troll, everyone know's who he is.

Are you talking bout me?....



You?...........



Talking to me??

Shooto started in Japan in 1986

Dog fighting is also legal in Japan, except in tokyo.

Are you talking bout me?....



You?...........



Talking to me??

You being in this forum and talking smack about boxing, specially stuff you know nothing about, makes no sense.


Sherdog.com

MMA.tv

MMAweekly.com

you would probably fit in more there, there are plenty of ignorant boxing hating fans for you.

You being in this forum and talking smack about boxing, specially stuff you know nothing about, makes no sense.


Sherdog.com

MMA.tv

MMAweekly.com

you would probably fit in more there, there are plenty of ignorant boxing hating fans for you.

I think I fit in fine here, Im not gonna leave cause you told me to. Im always posting threads to keep this lil mma discussion going. Me>your post. Period.

I think I fit in fine here, Im not gonna leave cause you told me to. Im always posting threads to keep this lil mma discussion going. Me>your post. Period.

Considering the fact you dident know who Carlson gracie was when he passed shows how much you know about MMA. Carry on.

I predicted this would happen with uneducated fighters, and I am truly sad that it has.

http://mmajunkie.com/2007/12/02/mma-fighter-sam-vasquez-dies-weeks-after-fight-story-from-yahoo-sports/#comments


MMA Fighter Sam Vasquez Dies Weeks After Fight (Story from Yahoo! Sports)
Posted by Dave Meltzer on December 2, 2007 at 10:27 pm ET

by Dave Meltzer/Yahoo! Sports
(Reprinted from Yahoo! Sports with permission)

Sam Vasquez of Houston may have become the first fighter to die from injuries sustained in mixed martial arts competition in North America.

A report by The Fight Network cited the Harris County (Texas) medical examiner’s office confirming Vasquez’s death at 8:15 p.m. Friday. The cause of death was not released.

Vasquez had been battling for his life since taking a hard right to the chin from 21-year old Vince Libardi on Oct. 20 during a Renegades Extreme Fighting show at the Toyota Center in Houston. The blow knocked Vasquez out and he was rushed to St. Joseph Medical Center, where he stayed until moving to hospice care on Monday.

The 35-year-old Vasquez was competing in the featherweight division (145 pound weight class) in the third match of a 12-match card promoted by Saul Soliz, the longtime boxing coach of Ultimate Fighting Championship superstar Tito Ortiz. The show was overseen by the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation. Calls to the department on Sunday were not immediately returned.

After taking a flurry of punches from Libardi, Vasquez collapsed in the ring and the fight was waved off at 2:50 of the third round. Emergency medical technicians worked on him in the ring for several minutes until he suffered what appeared to be a seizure and was rushed to the hospital.

Vasquez’s condition worsened from there. On Nov. 4, two weeks after being admitted, he underwent the first of two surgeries to relieve the pressure of a large clot in his brain, then had a massive stroke on Nov. 9 and was placed in a medically induced coma.


Choose your degree...


Vasquez, who had a seven-year-old son, came into the match with a 1-1 record, and had not fought in 13 months. Libardi, 14 years Vasquez’s junior, entered the match with seven pro fights and 10 rounds of action over three fights in the time since Vasquez had last fought in Sept. 2006.

“There was nothing out of the ordinary,” Paul Erickson, who was at ringside taking photos, said in an interview with The Fight Network. “They scrambled and hit the cage. Sammy stood up and looked a little wobbly. Then he went down and the referee called the doctor in. It didn’t seem like anything was out of the ordinary. Sammy was winded and looked exhausted, but he wasn’t unconscious when they carried him out. Everyone was puzzled at the time because no one could tell when or where he was injured.“

MMA had until recently been considered highly controversial, and a group of critics led by Sen. John McCain caused it to be banned in several states in the mid-to-late 1990s and pressured cable companies to not air its pay-per-view events.

In the past two-and-a-half years, though, the sport exploded in popularity due to television exposure of UFC, the sport’s major league franchise. UFC’s success has spawned hundreds of smaller promotions around North America with many states now holding more MMA events than boxing events.

Mixed martial arts officials and fans have long noted that there had never been a death in a sanctioned MMA match, a statistic no other combat sport could claim.

The only confirmed death prior to government oversight came when 31-year-old Douglas Dedge of Chipley, Fla. passed away on March 18, 1998, from severe brain injuries suffered in a match two days earlier at a non-sanctioned event called World Super Challenge in Russia. Dedge had passed out in a training session leading up to the fight, but went through with the match anyway.

Dave Meltzer covers mixed martial arts for Yahoo! Sports. Meltzer, who has published the pro wrestling trade industry publication the Wrestling Observer Newsletter since 1982, began covering MMA with UFC 1 in 1993. This story originally appeared on Yahoo! Sports and is syndicated on MMAjunkie.com as part of a content-partnership deal between the two sites.

Where do you see a "lack of education" and how did that lead to this guy's death?

A journalist is quoted as saying there was nothing out of the ordinary

Considering the fact you dident know who Carlson gracie was when he passed shows how much you know about MMA. Carry on.

Oh ****, that is the dumbest **** I heard and im sure everyone else can agree.
Ok, I didnt know who carlson gracie was, I guess I dont know ****. You just made a fool outta yourself with that post.

Well, not knowing Carlson Gracie doesn't mean you're a troll. It just means you have trouble keeping up with the Gracie reproduction rate. Plain and simple, the Gracie's are human equivalent to rabbits in heat (no disrespect, of course).

In regards to Sammy's death having a significant backlash, it first needs to lay the burden of his death solely on the violence of the sport. Second, you have to actually get people to think that the sport is indeed too violent.

The first condition is up in the air for the time being.

The second one is a very difficult condition to fulfill in the society of contradictions that we live in. Besides, in order for this condition to be truly fulfilled, the death has to occur on a UFC event, and typically one that's live; since that is the venue that most people in the US know about.

Overall, regardless of the full diagnosis of why Sammy died, although very unfortunate, will not do any damage to MMA in the US. It will stay as a small statistic to show in contrast to boxing in order to gain sanctioning in more states. Realistically, we all knew deaths were bound to happen, especially when dealing with any contact sport of any kind. As it stands, the significance of this is hardly worth discussing.

Just wanted to clear a couple things up.

1. Larger gloves would not stop deaths from happening. Smaller gloves don't provide larger impact, they just provide more cosmetic damage, like facial scars etc.. Larger gloves are what gives guys brain danage, and provide far more impact on the head. Large gloves were designed to protect a fighters hands, not to protect a fighter being hit.

2. The death was not a direct result of what happened inside the cage. He was up after being knocked out and everything seemed fine until he got backstage. He didn't die in the ring, he didn't die because he was punched. He died due to complications that arouse once he was in the hospital. Him hitting his head defienatly had impact on his fate, but he had issues even before this fight.

3. This is the only death in MMA. The other death was an unsactioned bout that happened overseas. The fighter was NOT allowed to fight in North America because of injuries, so he flew overseas and fought in an underground event. It had nothing to do with Mixed Martial Arts.

4. There has been one death relating to MMA in 14 years of the sport. IN those 14 years far more boxers have died. There has also been no cases of brain damage or diease stemming from repeated blows to the head, ever in the history of Mixed Martial Arts.

Boxing is the far more dangerous sport. Allowing a person to be repeatedly hit in the head and get up after being knocked down is what causes the problems. More people are seriously injured and killed in College football then Mixed Martial Arts. However that does not really matter. Both are great sports and the fighter make a choice each time they step in a ring or cage. It's our job to respect all athletes regardless of sport and support them for putting on a show for everyone.

Well said. Props to your complete analysis of the situation.

Just wanted to clear a couple things up.

2. The death was not a direct result of what happened inside the cage. He was up after being knocked out and everything seemed fine until he got backstage. He didn't die in the ring, he didn't die because he was punched. He died due to complications that arouse once he was in the hospital. Him hitting his head defienatly had impact on his fate, but he had issues even before this fight.



Everything seemed fine till he was taken backstage? He was taken backstage in a strecher. Im sure everything was fine and dandy till then.

He had issues even before the fight? you have any sources? from what I have heard he was in the best shape of his life. That point isnt much of a point, because alot of boxers had injuries prior also.

"He dident die because he was punched, He died due to complications that arouse once he was in the hospital"

So his death had nothing to do with his MMA fight right?

People die in combat sports, quit trying to compare it to boxing to make your sport seem safer.

The "no fighter has ever died or been seriously hurt in MMA" point is dead now. MMA is dangerous and people can die.

Just wanted to clear a couple things up.


3. This is the only death in MMA. The other death was an unsactioned bout that happened overseas. The fighter was NOT allowed to fight in North America because of injuries, so he flew overseas and fought in an underground event. It had nothing to do with Mixed Martial Arts.



So boxers that die in Thailand or Indonesia dont count, because it wasnt a santioned boxing match in the North America right?

4. There has been one death relating to MMA in 14 years of the sport. IN those 14 years far more boxers have died. There has also been no cases of brain damage or diease stemming from repeated blows to the head, ever in the history of Mixed Martial Arts.



Listen to his voice

Chuck 2003

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Chuck 2004

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Chuck 2006

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Chuck 2007

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No change in his voice paterns wat so ever right?

Keep dreaming, like I said MMA is a combat sport.

Quit making it out to be so much safer then boxing.

Everything seemed fine till he was taken backstage? He was taken backstage in a strecher. Im sure everything was fine and dandy till then.

He had issues even before the fight? you have any sources? from what I have heard he was in the best shape of his life. That point isnt much of a point, because alot of boxers had injuries prior also.

"He dident die because he was punched, He died due to complications that arouse once he was in the hospital"

So his death had nothing to do with his MMA fight right?

People die in combat sports, quit trying to compare it to boxing to make your sport seem safer.

The "no fighter has ever died or been seriously hurt in MMA" point is dead now. MMA is dangerous and people can die.

Well, it's obvious you don't know anything about Mixed Martial Arts. His wife was posting on a texas MMA board during the entire process. She kept everyone up to date on the situation and was taking donations along with other MMA organizations for his get well fund and to help the family. I suggest heading over to mma.tv where actual fighters post and reading threads about the situation.

Here is the texas board http://www.txmma.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7591

Sammy was not rushed to the hospital as soon as it happened. However he was taken a while after. He had a huge turn for the worse and was in stable but critical condition the first night. Doctors had to operate and found problems that stem from BEFORE the fight. At one point he was doing extremely well and was going to make a full recovery until he had another blood clot, which was NOT from the fight.

Read the thread

Now, I am not saying Mixed Martial Arts had nothing to do with it. It did for sure. So did the doctors that even sanctioned it without a proper Cat scan being done. I am also not saying Mixed Martial Arts is not a dangerous sport.

All combat sports are dangerous. From Highschool Football to Kickboxing. MMA is no exception. However it's not as dangerous as any others. The fact anyone thinks this will have an impact on the sport is strange. This was the first real problem in 14 years, and it's been proven that being able to protect yourself by clinching, blocking and not having a standing 10 count all help protect the fighters by extreme margins.

So boxers that die in Thailand or Indonesia dont count, because it wasnt a santioned boxing match in the North America right?

What are you even talking about? This was not an MMA fight in another country. Douglas's fight was essentially a street fight that happened in a club and people paid to watch. Club owners in the Ukraine paid a bunch of guys to fight, on a white mat in their club.

It had nothing to do with MMA. It just so happens he was an MMA fighter. Thats like saying If a Boxer gets in a street fight outside a club and dies it's boxings fault. Wrong. He was also NOT cleared by any doctors to fight and they warned him if he did, even in a fight at a bar he could die. He didn't listen.

Then you have guys like Ali and Roach who are permantly ****ed thanks to boxing for the rest of there lives. That can't happen in MMA. MMA fighters don't take hundreds of punches to the face each fight. They don't fight with large boxing gloves that increase the impact.

Take Randy for example. You show me a boxer that is 44 years old that has been fighting since they were 5, competed in the Olympics and is in the shape Randy is, because I can name at least 10 other fighters Randys age exactly like him.

Listen to his voice

Chuck 2003

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Chuck 2004

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Chuck 2006

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Chuck 2007

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No change in his voice paterns wat so ever right?

Keep dreaming, like I said MMA is a combat sport.

Quit making it out to be so much safer then boxing.

This is where you prove your ignorance.

You do understand why he sounds like this correct? He has broken is nose 9 times, and has surgery to open up is passages three times. That completley effects the way you sound and speak.

It's a requirement for all UFC fighters to undergo a complete and full body and brain examination. The UFC pays for scans of the fighters brain etc.. It's company policy that if any fighter shows a sign of brain damage or harm, they are not allowed to fight any longer. Also, The NSAC and CSAC have stated many times on radio shows that they would never sanction a fight in MMA if those scans showed any form of problems.

Trax has u against the ropes mrpain.:p

Well, it's obvious you don't know anything about Mixed Martial Arts. His wife was posting on a texas MMA board during the entire process. She kept everyone up to date on the situation and was taking donations along with other MMA organizations for his get well fund and to help the family. I suggest heading over to mma.tv where actual fighters post and reading threads about the situation.

Here is the texas board http://www.txmma.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7591

Sammy was not rushed to the hospital as soon as it happened. However he was taken a while after. He had a huge turn for the worse and was in stable but critical condition the first night. Doctors had to operate and found problems that stem from BEFORE the fight. At one point he was doing extremely well and was going to make a full recovery until he had another blood clot, which was NOT from the fight.



Now, I am not saying Mixed Martial Arts had nothing to do with it. It did for sure. So did the doctors that even sanctioned it without a proper Cat scan being done. I am also not saying Mixed Martial Arts is not a dangerous sport.

All combat sports are dangerous. From Highschool Football to Kickboxing. MMA is no exception. However it's not as dangerous as any others. The fact anyone thinks this will have an impact on the sport is strange. This was the first real problem in 14 years, and it's been proven that being able to protect yourself by clinching, blocking and not having a standing 10 count all help protect the fighters by extreme margins.

Ive already read all those threads, Ive also heard the sherdog radio interview with the director of the texas athletic commision. He said Sammy was in the best shape of his life, your source is a forum? Is that where I'll find the "Official" source for his pre excisting condition? Keep reaching.


All I read from you before is you trying to compare MMA to Boxing, boxing has more shows and more fighters. Im sure that equals more fighters getting hurt, time will tell how safe MMA is.

What are you even talking about? This was not an MMA fight in another country. Douglas's fight was essentially a street fight that happened in a club and people paid to watch. Club owners in the Ukraine paid a bunch of guys to fight, on a white mat in their club.

It had nothing to do with MMA. It just so happens he was an MMA fighter. Thats like saying If a Boxer gets in a street fight outside a club and dies it's boxings fault. Wrong. He was also NOT cleared by any doctors to fight and they warned him if he did, even in a fight at a bar he could die. He didn't listen.

Then you have guys like Ali and Roach who are permantly ****ed thanks to boxing for the rest of there lives. That can't happen in MMA. MMA fighters don't take hundreds of punches to the face each fight. They don't fight with large boxing gloves that increase the impact.

Take Randy for example. You show me a boxer that is 44 years old that has been fighting since they were 5, competed in the Olympics and is in the shape Randy is, because I can name at least 10 other fighters Randys age exactly like him.




Your post show's your bias, Ali and Roach huh, how about Michael J Fox? Yes people that have had head injuries are 4 times more likely to get parkinsons, but head injuries never happen in MMA right?

44 years old fighting since 5? Olympics?

This guys 45
http://botecodabola.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/122.jpg

Whats your point? MMA is better? is that what your trying to prove?

This is where you prove your ignorance.

You do understand why he sounds like this correct? He has broken is nose 9 times, and has surgery to open up is passages three times. That completley effects the way you sound and speak.

It's a requirement for all UFC fighters to undergo a complete and full body and brain examination. The UFC pays for scans of the fighters brain etc.. It's company policy that if any fighter shows a sign of brain damage or harm, they are not allowed to fight any longer. Also, The NSAC and CSAC have stated many times on radio shows that they would never sanction a fight in MMA if those scans showed any form of problems.


Next time someons asks why Joe Frazier sounds drunk I'll say his nose was broken 9 times.

Ive already read all those threads, Ive also heard the sherdog radio interview with the director of the texas athletic commision. He said Sammy was in the best shape of his life, your source is a forum? Is that where I'll find the "Official" source for his pre excisting condition? Keep reaching.


All I read from you before is you trying to compare MMA to Boxing, boxing has more shows and more fighters. Im sure that equals more fighters getting hurt, time will tell how safe MMA is.

Boxing has more shows? Do you know that there is a Mixed Martial Arts show every single day of the week and a major show every friday-sunday? There is more to MMA then UFC, EliteXC, K-1 and strikeforce.

My source is his ****ing wife, who posted in the thread.

Your post show's your bias, Ali and Roach huh, how about Michael J Fox? Yes people that have had head injuries are 4 times more likely to get parkinsons, but head injuries never happen in MMA right?

44 years old fighting since 5? Olympics?

This guys 45
http://botecodabola.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/122.jpg

Whats your point? MMA is better? is that what your trying to prove?

You are using Evander holyfield as a response? First off, thats a picture from an ESPN article that was written 7 years ago.

Second, many doctors have come out to say that Evander should not be fighting any longer and he is in no condition to do so.

Evander has also been linked to HGH and steroid abuse.

"On February 28, 2007, Holyfield was anonymously linked to Applied Pharmacy Services, a pharmacy in Alabama that is currently under investigation for supplying athletes with illegal sterioids and human growth hormone (HGH). He denies ever using performance enhancers.[1] Ironically, Holyfield's name does not appear in the law enforcement documents reviewed. However, a patient by the name of "Evan Fields" caught investigators' attention. "Fields" shares the same birth date as Holyfield -- Oct. 19, 1962. The listed address for "Fields" was 794 Evander, Fairfield, Ga. 30213. Holyfield has a very similar address. When the phone number that, according to the documents, was associated with the "Fields" prescription, was dialed, Holyfield answered.[2] On March 10, 2007 Holyfield made a public announcement that he would be pursuing his own investigation into the steroid claims in order to clear his name.[3]

Holyfield was again linked to HGH in September 2007, when his name came up following a raid of Signature Pharmacy in Orlando, FL.[4] As of September 2007, Signature Pharmacy is under investigation for illegally supplying several professional athletes with steroids and HGH"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evander_Holyfield

(references at the bottom of the page)

and if you want to talk brain damange, Evander is your man

Next time someons asks why Joe Frazier sounds drunk I'll say his nose was broken 9 times.

The only difference is Joe Frazier has extreme brain damange, and Chuck Lidell has been scanned and has none. Chuck is still as articulate as ever, the only thing that changed was the sound of his VOICE.

Joe can no longer speak like he used to, is not articulate any longer and has confirmed brain damage.

The only thing that causes brain damage in boxing and MMA are punches to the head. In an MMA fights sometimes have as little as 20 punches landed in the span of 25 minutes. In boxing, it's hundreds. Also, larger gloves provide more impact and hurt the head and brain far more. Smaller gloves only cause cosmetic damages. This is not a debate, go speak to a doctor.

Boxing has more shows? Do you know that there is a Mixed Martial Arts show every single day of the week and a major show every friday-sunday? There is more to MMA then UFC, EliteXC, K-1 and strikeforce.

My source is his ****ing wife, who posted in the thread.

Yes boxing has alot more shows then MMA.

Yesterday had a huge fight at the MGM but around the world there were 29 boxing cards, 27 cards on friday.

http://www.boxrec.com/date_search.php?yyyy=2007&mm=12&dd=08&SUBMIT=Go

Its like that every single week, if you can show me that MMA is anywhere close to that let me know.

I already told you that in boxing or MMA the states dont have mandatory cat scans.

"My source is his ****ing wife"

His wife said "The blood clot that was removed on Sunday, was not from the initial injury" She never stated the Blood clot was formed before or after.

She also said "The second blood clot formed sometime after the first blood clot was removed"

What are you trying to argue? He died because he was involved in a MMA fight.

You are using Evander holyfield as a response? First off, thats a picture from an ESPN article that was written 7 years ago.

Second, many doctors have come out to say that Evander should not be fighting any longer and he is in no condition to do so.

Evander has also been linked to HGH and steroid abuse.

"On February 28, 2007, Holyfield was anonymously linked to Applied Pharmacy Services, a pharmacy in Alabama that is currently under investigation for supplying athletes with illegal sterioids and human growth hormone (HGH). He denies ever using performance enhancers.[1] Ironically, Holyfield's name does not appear in the law enforcement documents reviewed. However, a patient by the name of "Evan Fields" caught investigators' attention. "Fields" shares the same birth date as Holyfield -- Oct. 19, 1962. The listed address for "Fields" was 794 Evander, Fairfield, Ga. 30213. Holyfield has a very similar address. When the phone number that, according to the documents, was associated with the "Fields" prescription, was dialed, Holyfield answered.[2] On March 10, 2007 Holyfield made a public announcement that he would be pursuing his own investigation into the steroid claims in order to clear his name.[3]

Holyfield was again linked to HGH in September 2007, when his name came up following a raid of Signature Pharmacy in Orlando, FL.[4] As of September 2007, Signature Pharmacy is under investigation for illegally supplying several professional athletes with steroids and HGH"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evander_Holyfield

(references at the bottom of the page)

and if you want to talk brain damange, Evander is your man

There is a more up to date picture.

http://www.newmexicoboxing.com/holyfieldwins.jpg


Whats your point of what Couture's body looks like? Fedor is probably the best MMA fighter on the planet and he's no adonis.

about randy couture.

"Randy “The Natural” Couture has been quoted as saying that there’s a “Steroid witch hunt” with him in the crosshairs. ONE DAY before UFC 74, Joe Rogan, the UFC’s color commentator, added fuel to this fire when he did a guest spot on ESPNEWS to promote the Pay-Per-View event by claiming that Couture had undergone “hormone replacement therapy” and applauded what modern science could do for older fighters. "

MMAScoops.com, reporting on ESPNEWS

The only difference is Joe Frazier has extreme brain damange, and Chuck Lidell has been scanned and has none. Chuck is still as articulate as ever, the only thing that changed was the sound of his VOICE.

Joe can no longer speak like he used to, is not articulate any longer and has confirmed brain damage.

The only thing that causes brain damage in boxing and MMA are punches to the head. In an MMA fights sometimes have as little as 20 punches landed in the span of 25 minutes. In boxing, it's hundreds. Also, larger gloves provide more impact and hurt the head and brain far more. Smaller gloves only cause cosmetic damages. This is not a debate, go speak to a doctor.

Yeah im sure getting elbowed in the back of the head and getting knee'd in the head, dont cause any kind of brain damage. We dont know the long term damage MMA will have on its athletes because the sport is new.

"Chuck is still as articulate as ever, the only thing that changed was the sound of his VOICE."

I can clearly hear that Chuck's Voice has slowed down during the last few years, and I do hear the slurring too.

I wonder how many times Arona punched Sakuraba?

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5575/sakubustedupbl3.jpg

Yes boxing has alot more shows then MMA.

Yesterday had a huge fight at the MGM but around the world there were 29 boxing cards, 27 cards on friday.

http://www.boxrec.com/date_search.php?yyyy=2007&mm=12&dd=08&SUBMIT=Go

Its like that every single week, if you can show me that MMA is anywhere close to that let me know.


Actually boxing does not have a lot more shows. Sadly MMA doesn't have a nice convieniant website to count on, but if you know MMA you know what shows happen. There is at least 2 shows a night in each state, in states MMA is not sanctioned they are held on an Indian reserve.

Now that does not count the huge PPV's put on every single months by the larger organizations like K-1 and the UFC. It doesn't count the fight nights, the wec, or IFL.


I already told you that in boxing or MMA the states dont have mandatory cat scans.

Well considering I work as a nutritionist and for the OPAC I think I know exactly what is mandatory and isn't. Whenever a fighter has a head injury or shows signs of brain damage, it's mandatory for them to undergo a catscan.


"My source is his ****ing wife"

His wife said "The blood clot that was removed on Sunday, was not from the initial injury" She never stated the Blood clot was formed before or after.

She also said "The second blood clot formed sometime after the first blood clot was removed"

What are you trying to argue? He died because he was involved in a MMA fight.

He didn't get the blood clots from the fight. He got them from the operation and recovery. As you can see, she clearly stated "The Blood Clot removed, was not from the initial injury"

Doesn't take a rocket science to learn English.

There is a more up to date picture.

http://www.newmexicoboxing.com/holyfieldwins.jpg


Whats your point of what Couture's body looks like? Fedor is probably the best MMA fighter on the planet and he's no adonis.

about randy couture.

"Randy “The Natural” Couture has been quoted as saying that there’s a “Steroid witch hunt” with him in the crosshairs. ONE DAY before UFC 74, Joe Rogan, the UFC’s color commentator, added fuel to this fire when he did a guest spot on ESPNEWS to promote the Pay-Per-View event by claiming that Couture had undergone “hormone replacement therapy” and applauded what modern science could do for older fighters. "

MMAScoops.com, reporting on ESPNEWS

I said nothing about how Randy's body looks. I stated Randy is in better shape, he is a world champion, he speaks better English and he has no signs of brain damage. Evander on the other hand is HALF the man he used to be, he has clear and obvious signs of brain damage and he refuses to stop fighting even when doctors tell him to.

Also the "quote" you linked has nothing to do with steroids. Mixed Martial Arts fighters are tested every single time they fight, they are also tested in grappling tournaments and before they are allowed to train poeple like police officers. Randy was probably tested 5-6 times last year alone. Also, Hormone replacement therapy is not illegal or against the rules.

:owned:

Yeah im sure getting elbowed in the back of the head and getting knee'd in the head, dont cause any kind of brain damage. We dont know the long term damage MMA will have on its athletes because the sport is new.

Actually getting elbowed to the back of the head is Illegal. Whenever it happens the fight is stopped that moment. You don't even get a warning for elbowing to the back of the head. Unlike in boxing, where rabbit punches occur all the time and are the reason Ali, Roach and many other boxers can't even function as normal people for the rest of their lives.

Knees to the face also don't do anything but cosmetic damage. For head trauma to give you brain damage you have to take repeated shots to the head. In Mixed Martial Arts this does NOT happen. In boxing you can get hit over 500 times right in the head and the average top 10 boxer has 30 fights or more. Do the math.



"Chuck is still as articulate as ever, the only thing that changed was the sound of his VOICE."

I can clearly hear that Chuck's Voice has slowed down during the last few years, and I do hear the slurring too.

Well aside from Chuck being checked out and doctors confirming he is completely fine, lets just say he does have brain damage.

You do know that Chuck has competed in Kick boxing and boxing for a longer period of time then he has Mixed Martial Arts correct? He has done kickboxing for over a decade. Not lets say that Chuck is hurt. Isn't it funny that the only Mixed Martial Arts fighter showing signs of brain damage competed in boxing for longer then he has MMA.



I wonder how many times Arona punched Sakuraba?

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5575/sakubustedupbl3.jpg

[/quote]

That looks bad but it isn't. It's funny because Sakuraba still fights today and he still beats extremely good fighters. Unlike any boxer his age. He also teaches as a professor at Tokyo University with Minowa.

Or you can use Mirko Cro Cop for example, who is the Croatian parliament and is the equivalent of a United States Senator.

Here is an article from AOL sports entitled.

"Mixed Martial Arts is safer then boxing"

"We're just a few hours away from tonight's Ultimate Fighting Championship event (which we'll be live blogging), and that makes now as good a time as any to make an important point: Though it looks more brutal, mixed martial arts is a safer sport than boxing.

That's not my opinion, it's the opinion of Dr. Margaret Goodman, who is probably America's foremost authority on such matters. Goodman is quoted in this week's Sports Illustrated cover story:

"You're going to see worse cuts in MMA than in boxing, especially with longer rounds, and there are more knockouts," says Dr. Margaret Goodman, chairwoman of the Nevada State Athletic Commission's Medical Advisory Board. "But overall, is it safer than boxing? I think so. The guys [submit], and it's over. You don't have standing eight counts, you don't have 10 rounds of guys taking shots to the head."


Fatalities in boxing are almost always related to repeated blows to the head over the course of a long fight. In the picture, Floyd Mayweather has just sized up Oscar De La Hoya with his left hand and is about to deliver a right to the head -- and that's what happens in boxing, over and over for 36 minutes.

UFC has no fatalities because it has no fights like that -- the fights are shorter, and knockouts happen more quickly. Both sports can be brutal, but in terms of safety, if a father is going to encourage his son to get involved in either boxing or mixed martial arts, he'd be much better off choosing the latter."

Here is an article where they speak with DR. GARY FURNESS one of the most respected doctors in all of combat sports

"Doctor Gary Furness is a family and sports-medicine specialist in Santa Rosa, California. His training allows him to care for patients of all ages – and the majority of problems that his patients usually have, although Gary says he has recently stopped delivering babies.

Whilst the good doctor doesn’t practice a martial art – believing his medical practice provides sufficient full-contact encounters, he is totally involved in MMA as a fan. Here Gary tells us a little about how his obsession first became apparent: “Initially by watching early Ultimate Fighting Championships. Then after a break, my wife and I were lucky enough to witness UFC 40 live, and I got really hooked,” says Dr. Furness.


Gary explains how his appreciation of the sport then led to his becoming a ringside physician. “It took some luck. Through one of my patients I got to know Dave Terrell, just prior to his Matt Lindland fight. By helping Dave with some medical forms and tests, my interest level rose. And in MMA, if you know someone who knows someone, connections are made.”

In this capacity as ringside physician, Gary was then asked to attend some MMA events in California, earlier this year. “They were two Gladiator Challenge shows in Clear Lake, and I will be working a further three shows in November in Northern California.”

As readers are no doubt aware, there has been some misinformation and media sensationalism in the press, at the expense of mixed martial arts. Some of this reporting has been due to the ignorance of the persons covering the stories, who have obviously not carried out any research into the sport, but have chosen the easier approach of just ridiculing MMA.

Then there is the open criticism by some members of boxing organizations who see MMA as a direct threat to the already dwindling crowds at boxing events. On an international scale, the big title boxing matches are no longer pulling the big crowds. And so many boxing officials have been publicly trying to discredit the sport they believe to be taking away their supporters.

So we’ve decided to ask Doctor Furness to add some clarity to the sport that continues to grow like wildfire throughout the world.

Gary, how does the fitness of MMA fighters compare to that of other athletes?

“I have been impressed with the conditioning of almost all the athletes, although the super-heavyweights have tended to be a bit overweight. Even for two-round fights, most guys are in great cardiovascular condition.”

What are the medical requirements for an MMA fighter?

“For general health, they require normal blood pressure and heart rate, normal vision in both eyes, and a lack of history with brain injuries. Each fighter is also checked for recent orthopedic injuries.”

Are fighters drug tested?

“Some are, but not enough. At present, in sanctioned California and Nevada events, anyone fighting for a title is tested, along with a couple in non-title matches who are randomly tested. I am not sure why all fighters are not tested, but I hope this changes soon.”


Dr Gary and David Terrell

Is MMA barbaric?

“I think it’s a very demanding physical sport, but I sure do not regard it as barbaric. The rules in place at sanctioned MMA events tend to help fighters who may get into trouble. And you hear a lot more about controversial quick stoppages rather than fights lasting too long. But it’s a combat sport and injuries certainly do occur.

“I think the major difference between MMA and boxing is the absence of takedowns in boxing. And I think the ‘standing eight-count’ and multiple knockdowns are what cause the injuries. ”

How does MMA stack up against other sports for safety – boxing, football, car racing, rock fishing…?

“I think the track record for MMA is much better than for boxing: At present no athlete has ever died at a sanctioned MMA event. And football has much more devastating orthopedic injuries.

“The layers of protection in MMA are good: The fighters can give up (tap out), the referee can stop it, or the corner can throw the towel in. Also, if asked about a cut or eye injury, the ringside physician can end the match. Compared with boxing, the lack of a ‘standing eight-count’ makes a huge difference in fighter safety.

“Car-racing fatalities speak for themselves. And Australian rock fishing must be tougher than in California, where the worst injury is a hook in the hand.”

At what age should kids get involved in MMA, or different aspects of it: BJJ, Thai boxing, etc?

“To help teach discipline and cardio-training, starting at six to eight years old should be fine. Emphasis should be placed on technique, training, and respect for opponents rather than participating in any full-contact activities.”

With the MMA gloves being 4oz and boxing gloves being around 14 oz, is there a misconception by the general public that the heavier gloves protect the boxer more against becoming punch-drunk or sustaining brain injuries?

“I think there is a misconception that boxing is safer. The big gloves look safer to some, but the way the sport is, the bigger gloves truly are not safer. Larger gloves cut down hand injuries to be sure, but allow multiple blows to the head. That is what boxers do – multiple blows to the head.”

Because there are so many ways of winning in MMA – submissions etc, do MMA fighters generally take fewer head shots?

“Depending on the organization, MMA athletes can get hit by fist, elbows, or kicks to the head: All are potentially bad news. But when an MMA athlete is in trouble, that is it – fight stopped. And of course, many matches involve no strikes to the head at all.”

How do the bones respond to all the striking? Does it make the bones stronger? Do they strengthen from exercise in the same way muscles do?

“Interesting questions. We know that exercise will help prevent osteoporosis in the elderly. However, I do not think that is the case in MMA. The repetitive training of using your hands properly to potentially not break them is probably the main benefit of training.”



Dr Gary, is there anything you’d like to add?

“If I were designing MMA rules, I would do away with soccer kicks and stomps to a downed opponent, that are allowed in PRIDE, and elbows to the head allowed in UFC.


“My level of appreciation for the complexity of MMA has greatly increased this past year. And I hope I can continue to be involved in the sport.


“If I could change one thing, I would prefer to do away with elbow strikes to the head, because there is a very high percentage of MMA fights ending through cuts to the head caused by elbow strikes.”

Actually boxing does not have a lot more shows. Sadly MMA doesn't have a nice convieniant website to count on, but if you know MMA you know what shows happen. There is at least 2 shows a night in each state, in states MMA is not sanctioned they are held on an Indian reserve.

Sadly they do, you can look thru that website and, there are acctually multiple shows every single day. Atlest 20 each saturday and sunday as many times 30. You know and I know MMA is no where near that amount.


Now that does not count the huge PPV's put on every single months by the larger organizations like K-1 and the UFC. It doesn't count the fight nights, the wec, or IFL.

If you average all the boxing shows around the world, it comes out to atleast 10 a night. Im sure MMA is having "Close" to those numbers.




Well considering I work as a nutritionist and for the OPAC I think I know exactly what is mandatory and isn't. Whenever a fighter has a head injury or shows signs of brain damage, it's mandatory for them to undergo a catscan.

Were not talking about after getting Ko'd, whats the point your trying to make again? Sam Vasquez had never been Ko'd.





He didn't get the blood clots from the fight. He got them from the operation and recovery. As you can see, she clearly stated "The Blood Clot removed, was not from the initial injury"

Doesn't take a rocket science to learn English

You keep trying to downplay the fact! he was killed as a result of his MMA fight. We won't know the exact cause till after the autopsy, but you keep on with your speculation

I said nothing about how Randy's body looks. I stated Randy is in better shape, he is a world champion, he speaks better English and he has no signs of brain damage.


Couture has been fighting as a professional since 1997, he's had 24 fights.

I never stated Couture had brain damage.

George Foreman fought till the age of 48, he has no signs of brain damage.


Evander on the other hand is HALF the man he used to be, he has clear and obvious signs of brain damage and he refuses to stop fighting even when doctors tell him to.

I agree Holyfield should retire, yet he keeps getting sanctioned in states like Texas.

Also the "quote" you linked has nothing to do with steroids. Mixed Martial Arts fighters are tested every single time they fight

Your full of ****, why dont you show me where "MMA Fighters are tested after every single fight"

MMA fighters are the dirtiest, athletes when it comes to Combat sports. Just look at the CSAC reports on positive testing.

http://blog.mmapredictions.com/2007/10/24/six-months-of-mma-fighter-drug-testing-results-from-the-csac/




they are also tested in grappling tournaments and before they are allowed to train poeple like police officers. Randy was probably tested 5-6 times last year alone. Also, Hormone replacement therapy is not illegal or against the rules.
:owned:

Never said it was Illegal, you were talking about how Holyfield was linked to steroids and HGH. So I pointed out what Rogan said about Couture.

Funny you would bring up steroid considering Sherk,Gracie,Baroni,Franca, have all been busted this year alone.

Actually getting elbowed to the back of the head is Illegal. Whenever it happens the fight is stopped that moment. You don't even get a warning for elbowing to the back of the head. Unlike in boxing, where rabbit punches occur all the time and are the reason Ali, Roach and many other boxers can't even function as normal people for the rest of their lives.

Thats funny, I thought I saw a bunch of punches to the back of the head during the Warmachine Vs Jrock fight. Dont remember the ref saying anything about that.

I also remember one during the Hatton Vs PBF bout, 1 point deducted right away.

There are way more Punches to the back of the head in MMA compared to boxing, just look at the way Roger Huerta finishes alot of his fights.


Knees to the face also don't do anything but cosmetic damage.

Everytime there is a KO, there is "Head Trauma" for the fact the brain is bouncing inside the head, Causing trauma from both side. Doctors call it a severe concussion.

So unless a fighter has never been Ko'd with a Knee, your wrong again.


For head trauma to give you brain damage you have to take repeated shots to the head. In Mixed Martial Arts this does NOT happen. In boxing you can get hit over 500 times right in the head and the average top 10 boxer has 30 fights or more. Do the math.

I already pointed out, how MMA fighters can get head trauma.

Yes boxers take more punches, I never said boxing was safer then MMA.



Well aside from Chuck being checked out and doctors confirming he is completely fine, lets just say he does have brain damage.

You do know that Chuck has competed in Kick boxing and boxing for a longer period of time then he has Mixed Martial Arts correct? He has done kickboxing for over a decade. Not lets say that Chuck is hurt. Isn't it funny that the only Mixed Martial Arts fighter showing signs of brain damage competed in boxing for longer then he has MMA.

Again I never said Boxing was safer then MMA, by the way. What was Chucks professional boxing record? You keep going back to boxing as the root of all evil.






That looks bad but it isn't. It's funny because Sakuraba still fights today and he still beats extremely good fighters. Unlike any boxer his age.

Your wrong again, Bernard Hopkins is older then Sakuraba and is much more elite then him.




He also teaches as a professor at Tokyo University with Minowa.

Or you can use Mirko Cro Cop for example, who is the Croatian parliament and is the equivalent of a United States Senator.

Both Klitschko brothers has PHD's in sports science, where are you getting at?

Here is an article from AOL sports entitled.

"Mixed Martial Arts is safer then boxing"

"We're just a few hours away from tonight's Ultimate Fighting Championship event (which we'll be live blogging), and that makes now as good a time as any to make an important point: Though it looks more brutal, mixed martial arts is a safer sport than boxing.

That's not my opinion, it's the opinion of Dr. Margaret Goodman, who is probably America's foremost authority on such matters. Goodman is quoted in this week's Sports Illustrated cover story:

"You're going to see worse cuts in MMA than in boxing, especially with longer rounds, and there are more knockouts," says Dr. Margaret Goodman, chairwoman of the Nevada State Athletic Commission's Medical Advisory Board. "But overall, is it safer than boxing? I think so. The guys [submit], and it's over. You don't have standing eight counts, you don't have 10 rounds of guys taking shots to the head."


Fatalities in boxing are almost always related to repeated blows to the head over the course of a long fight. In the picture, Floyd Mayweather has just sized up Oscar De La Hoya with his left hand and is about to deliver a right to the head -- and that's what happens in boxing, over and over for 36 minutes.

UFC has no fatalities because it has no fights like that -- the fights are shorter, and knockouts happen more quickly. Both sports can be brutal, but in terms of safety, if a father is going to encourage his son to get involved in either boxing or mixed martial arts, he'd be much better off choosing the latter."


Dr. Margaret Goodman is in my opinion the best Doctor when it comes to combat sports, if she says MMA is safer, then she's probably right. But thats never been my point during this discussion.

Here is an article where they speak with DR. GARY FURNESS one of the most respected doctors in all of combat sports

"Doctor Gary Furness is a family and sports-medicine specialist in Santa Rosa, California. His training allows him to care for patients of all ages – and the majority of problems that his patients usually have, although Gary says he has recently stopped delivering babies.

Whilst the good doctor doesn’t practice a martial art – believing his medical practice provides sufficient full-contact encounters, he is totally involved in MMA as a fan. Here Gary tells us a little about how his obsession first became apparent: “Initially by watching early Ultimate Fighting Championships. Then after a break, my wife and I were lucky enough to witness UFC 40 live, and I got really hooked,” says Dr. Furness.


Gary explains how his appreciation of the sport then led to his becoming a ringside physician. “It took some luck. Through one of my patients I got to know Dave Terrell, just prior to his Matt Lindland fight. By helping Dave with some medical forms and tests, my interest level rose. And in MMA, if you know someone who knows someone, connections are made.”

In this capacity as ringside physician, Gary was then asked to attend some MMA events in California, earlier this year. “They were two Gladiator Challenge shows in Clear Lake, and I will be working a further three shows in November in Northern California.”

As readers are no doubt aware, there has been some misinformation and media sensationalism in the press, at the expense of mixed martial arts. Some of this reporting has been due to the ignorance of the persons covering the stories, who have obviously not carried out any research into the sport, but have chosen the easier approach of just ridiculing MMA.

Then there is the open criticism by some members of boxing organizations who see MMA as a direct threat to the already dwindling crowds at boxing events. On an international scale, the big title boxing matches are no longer pulling the big crowds. And so many boxing officials have been publicly trying to discredit the sport they believe to be taking away their supporters.

So we’ve decided to ask Doctor Furness to add some clarity to the sport that continues to grow like wildfire throughout the world.

Gary, how does the fitness of MMA fighters compare to that of other athletes?

“I have been impressed with the conditioning of almost all the athletes, although the super-heavyweights have tended to be a bit overweight. Even for two-round fights, most guys are in great cardiovascular condition.”

What are the medical requirements for an MMA fighter?

“For general health, they require normal blood pressure and heart rate, normal vision in both eyes, and a lack of history with brain injuries. Each fighter is also checked for recent orthopedic injuries.”

Are fighters drug tested?


“Some are, but not enough. At present, in sanctioned California and Nevada events, anyone fighting for a title is tested, along with a couple in non-title matches who are randomly tested. I am not sure why all fighters are not tested, but I hope this changes soon.”

Funny how you print an article with some SelfOwnage for yourself.

Dr Gary and David Terrell

Is MMA barbaric?

“I think it’s a very demanding physical sport, but I sure do not regard it as barbaric. The rules in place at sanctioned MMA events tend to help fighters who may get into trouble. And you hear a lot more about controversial quick stoppages rather than fights lasting too long. But it’s a combat sport and injuries certainly do occur.

“I think the major difference between MMA and boxing is the absence of takedowns in boxing. And I think the ‘standing eight-count’ and multiple knockdowns are what cause the injuries. ”

How does MMA stack up against other sports for safety – boxing, football, car racing, rock fishing…?

“I think the track record for MMA is much better than for boxing: At present no athlete has ever died at a sanctioned MMA event. And football has much more devastating orthopedic injuries.

“The layers of protection in MMA are good: The fighters can give up (tap out), the referee can stop it, or the corner can throw the towel in. Also, if asked about a cut or eye injury, the ringside physician can end the match. Compared with boxing, the lack of a ‘standing eight-count’ makes a huge difference in fighter safety.

“Car-racing fatalities speak for themselves. And Australian rock fishing must be tougher than in California, where the worst injury is a hook in the hand.”

At what age should kids get involved in MMA, or different aspects of it: BJJ, Thai boxing, etc?

“To help teach discipline and cardio-training, starting at six to eight years old should be fine. Emphasis should be placed on technique, training, and respect for opponents rather than participating in any full-contact activities.”

With the MMA gloves being 4oz and boxing gloves being around 14 oz, is there a misconception by the general public that the heavier gloves protect the boxer more against becoming punch-drunk or sustaining brain injuries?

“I think there is a misconception that boxing is safer. The big gloves look safer to some, but the way the sport is, the bigger gloves truly are not safer. Larger gloves cut down hand injuries to be sure, but allow multiple blows to the head. That is what boxers do – multiple blows to the head.”

Because there are so many ways of winning in MMA – submissions etc, do MMA fighters generally take fewer head shots?

“Depending on the organization, MMA athletes can get hit by fist, elbows, or kicks to the head: All are potentially bad news. But when an MMA athlete is in trouble, that is it – fight stopped. And of course, many matches involve no strikes to the head at all.”

How do the bones respond to all the striking? Does it make the bones stronger? Do they strengthen from exercise in the same way muscles do?

“Interesting questions. We know that exercise will help prevent osteoporosis in the elderly. However, I do not think that is the case in MMA. The repetitive training of using your hands properly to potentially not break them is probably the main benefit of training.”



Dr Gary, is there anything you’d like to add?

“If I were designing MMA rules, I would do away with soccer kicks and stomps to a downed opponent, that are allowed in PRIDE, and elbows to the head allowed in UFC.


“My level of appreciation for the complexity of MMA has greatly increased this past year. And I hope I can continue to be involved in the sport.


“If I could change one thing, I would prefer to do away with elbow strikes to the head, because there is a very high percentage of MMA fights ending through cuts to the head caused by elbow strikes.”

Like I said before, I dont know what your trying to prove.

I never said boxing was safer then MMA.

By the way, I love MMA!!!

Its my second favorite sport and Ive been following it for about 8 years.

Your post show's your bias, Ali and Roach huh, how about Michael J Fox? Yes people that have had head injuries are 4 times more likely to get parkinsons, but head injuries never happen in MMA right?

44 years old fighting since 5? Olympics?

This guys 45
http://botecodabola.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/122.jpg

Whats your point? MMA is better? is that what your trying to prove?

too bad holyfield cant compete to the same level as couture:smashfrea

bad example:lol1:

too bad holyfield cant compete to the same level as couture:smashfrea

bad example:lol1:

Read the whole thread :)

Read the whole thread :)

I would read it over again but why bring holyfield in the mix????

Trax has some good points though, but if he is your alt then **** off.

I would read it over again but why bring holyfield in the mix????

Trax has some good points though, but if he is your alt then **** off.

Your even more worthless then I thought...

Your even more worthless then I thought...

oh yeah:s why is that? because TRAX gets you everytime?

lol lol.

2swell no one should take you serious.

Obviously you are uneducated and a lowlife.

Mrpain81 owned yo ass!! ****in' punk ass!

Report: Sam Vasquez died from brain injury
by MMAjunkie.com Staff [mmajunkie-staff] on Apr 08, 2008 at 4:35 pm in - News -

<b>Houston fighter Sam Vasquez died from a severe brain injury he suffered during an Oct. 20 Renegades Extreme Fighting event.</b>

Our friend Steve Sievert of the Houston Chronicle confirmed the news with the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office in Texas. The office has a four-month backlog of cases, which caused the delay in determining the cause of death.

The news confirms that the fighter is the first mixed-martial-arts competitor to die as a result of injuries sustained in a sanctioned fight. Vasquez, a husband and father, was 35 years old at the time of his passing.

According to Sievert:

The official ruling from the medical examiner's office stated that Vasquez died of "complications from blunt trauma to the head with subdural hemorrhage."

A subdural hemorrhage occurs when a blood vessel bursts and blood builds up between the brain and its outer lining, which exerts pressure on the brain.

The injury, usually seen in car-accident and fall victims, is rare in MMA.

Vasquez, who was medically cleared to fight by the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, entered the bout with a 1-1 record. After taking a series of punches from opponent Vince Libardi, Vasquez collapsed in the ring and the fight was stopped at 2:50 of the third round. Vasquez immediately lost conciousness, and emergency medical technicians worked on him in the ring for several minutes until he appeared to suffer a seizure.

He was then rushed to the hospital, where over the next month, he suffered a stroke and underwent two surgeries to remove blood clots from his brain.

Vasquez passed on Nov. 30.

The only other known death in MMA happened prior to government oversight in March 1998, when 31-year-old Florida fighter Douglas Dedge passed away from severe brain injuries suffered in a match two days earlier at a non-sanctioned event in the Ukraine. Dedge had passed out in a training session leading up to the fight, but he went through with the

Is there a video? I need it for research purposes.

Here's the video from the first known MMA related death of Douglas Dedge.

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The Sam Vasquez fight used to be online but they took it off it seems.