I've recently upped my training by alot.

I usually adjust within a week and a half of going hard and sticking to it...

But I haven't..:nonono:

I sparred today and still felt the affects of training from the prior week.


What Can I Take , Do, EAT. to help my body heal the way it normally does.FAST.


I've made it so almost every meal includes protein now. I'm sleeping on purpose more than the 4-5 hours i usually do.


What Can i do. I want to be back at 100% week after week.

Now ya don't have to tell me its impossible just tell me what could help.

REQUIREMENTS:
It can't make me gain weight. I have to stay at 165.
No Creatine.
Natural and long lasting is good to.


I seriously appreciate the answers I'll get and I will read them all. Please help. thanks.

No X-Plode works wonders for being sore and giving you energy pre-workout. Take it, and reap the benefits.

No X-Plode works wonders for being sore and giving you energy pre-workout. Take it, and reap the benefits.

no x-plode is creatine , i dont think thats exactly what hes looking for especially considering thats gonna make him gain size and potentially gain weight makin it that much harder to make weight for his fights.

but most of those health food stores do have diff types of muscle recovery shakes that might do the trick , not sure if u tryed that already.

Didn't you say in another thread that you eat whatever you eant? If this is true maybe now is the time to really clean your diet up.

1. Eat 6 meals per day. Eat plenty of vegetables and fruit. Eat plenty of green leafy vegetables. They can help with fatigue.

2. Increase your protein intake like you are doing. don't over do it though. Try to eat a slow digesting source before bed so you have protein in your system throughout the night like cottagecheese+Peanut butter.

Also read through this article-http://www.rossboxing.com/thegym/supplements1.html

If you have the money then some of them supplements will help you. i highly reccomend ZMA and Glutamine.

rest, is the magic word!!!

4-5 hours of sleep should definitely get the alarm bells ringing. If you train half as hard as you say you do (ie. like an elite athlete) you need at least 8 hours of sleep every night. That is the place to start, because anything else you do will not be enough if that isn't covered.

That is really the big one, because there's nothing magical out there that is also natural and LEGAL, that'll make you recover beyond your natural ability. If your basic nutrition is covered, and you drink lots of water you should be able to train to your own potential, but you need the 8 hours of sleep.

You're already doing the best thing you can do by taking in alot more protein. Apart from doing that all you can do is wait for your body to recover. Maybe adding another rest day in this weeks training would help you get back to full fitness faster.

Aslo try taking some casein protein before you go to sleep. It degests ALOT slower than normal/whey protein so carrys on feeding you muscles whilst you're asleep.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mic.html

punchdrunk is so rite, u definitely need 8 hours of sleep!

getting a rub down perhaps!? Sports massage?!

punchdrunk is so rite, u definitely need 8 hours of sleep!

No you don't!

EVERYBODY is different. I only sleep 4-6 hours a night. That is all I need.

No you don't!

EVERYBODY is different. I only sleep 4-6 hours a night. That is all I need.

You are T to the Z though.

You are T to the Z though.

Haha. True

Dean Karnazes only sleeps 4-5 hours a night and this man runs 150 - 350 miles at a time. The fitter you are, the less sleep you need.

They say an average person needs around 8 hours of sleep but it really does differ for everybody.

No you don't!

EVERYBODY is different. I only sleep 4-6 hours a night. That is all I need.

well i can guarantee your body isnt recovering properly you need and i mean YOU NEED 7 - 9 hours sleep anything below that relases hormones which make u eat more, and can even make u obese and anything more than that is bad 4 u also!

I totally agree with Punchdrunk!

But if you think you should use nutritionsupplements, first take a good look at your current eating patron!

well i can guarantee your body isnt recovering properly you need and i mean YOU NEED 7 - 9 hours sleep anything below that relases hormones which make u eat more, and can even make u obese and anything more than that is bad 4 u also!

what proof do u have of this? i dont believe that for a second my trainer sleeps around on average 4-5 hours a night, and he is training people all day long and then trains himself at night. i sleep usually from like 11-1130 to 5am and thats plenty for me. some people that sleep 8 hours its too much for them. the more hours u sleep at night, the more tired u get during the day IMO. i sleep in on sundays jus wake up whenever, and if i get more than 8-9 hours, i am beath the whole day from all the rest, i jus wanna get more of it.

i say sleep is different for everyone, some people need 8-9 hours, some people can do fine with 4-6 hours. theres no real answer. its however u feel...

well i can guarantee your body isnt recovering properly you need and i mean YOU NEED 7 - 9 hours sleep anything below that relases hormones which make u eat more, and can even make u obese and anything more than that is bad 4 u also!

With all due respect. You're wrong!

With all due respect. You're wrong!

You may feel that you need only 4 hours sleep, but that doesn't mean that your body isn't suffering from it i'm sorry.


According to a 2000 study published in the British scientific journal, researchers in Australia and New Zealand reported that sleep deprivation can have some of the same hazardous effects as being drunk.[15] People who drove after being awake for 17–19 hours performed worse than those with a blood alcohol level of .05 percent, which is the legal limit for drunk driving in most western European countries (the U.S. and UK set their blood alcohol limits at .08 percent). In addition, as a result of continuous muscular activity without proper rest time, effects such as cramping are much more frequent in sleep-deprived individuals. Extreme cases of sleep deprivation have been reported to be associated with hernias, muscle fascia tears, and other such problems commonly associated with physical overexertion. Beyond impaired motor skills, people who get too little sleep may have higher levels of stress, anxiety and depression, and may take unnecessary risks. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, over 100,000 traffic accidents each year are caused by fatigue and drowsiness.[16][17] A new study has shown that while total sleep deprivation for one night caused many errors, the errors were not significant until after the second night of total sleep deprivation.[18]
The response latency seem to be higher when it comes to actions regarding personal morality rather than in situations when morality is not in question. The willingness to violate a personal belief has been shown to be moderated by EQ, so people with high EQ are affected less by sleep deprivation in such situations.

Combining a huge physical training which is what da1 seems to do with only 4-6 or so hours of sleep a night on average, will hurt him no doubt about it. The reason he may not feel tired is that his metabolism is so fast due to his level of fitness. Although sleep deprivation has been shown to have the same effects as type two diabetes and other diseases.

Getting only four hours sleep instead of eight will radically change glucose tolerance and endocrine function - changes that resemble the effects of advanced age or the early stages of diabetes - after less than one week.

In the latest issue of the British journal Lancet, researchers from the University of Chicago Medical Centre report that chronic sleep loss can reduce the capacity of even young adults to perform basic metabolic functions, such as processing and storing carbohydrates or regulating hormone secretion.

Although many studies have examined the short-term effects of acute, total sleep deprivation on the brain, this is the first to investigate the impact of chronic, partial sleep loss on the body by evaluating the metabolism and hormone secretion of people subjected to sleep restriction and after sleep recovery.

"We found that the metabolic and endocrine changes resulting from a significant sleep debt mimic many of the hallmarks of aging," said Eve Van Cauter, Professor of Medicine at the University of Chicago and director of the study. "We suspect that chronic sleep loss may not only hasten the onset but could also increase the severity of age-related ailments such as diabetes, hypertension, obesity and memory loss."

Van Cauter and colleagues Karine Spiegel and Rachel Leproult followed 11 healthy young men for 16 consecutive nights. The first three nights the subjects were allowed to sleep for eight hours, the next six nights they slept four hours, the following seven nights they spent 12 hours in bed. All subjects received identical diets.

When tested during the height of their sleep debt, subjects took 40 percent longer than normal to regulate their blood sugar levels following a high-carbohydrate meal. Their ability to secrete insulin and to respond to insulin both decreased by about 30 percent. A similar decrease in acute insulin response is an early marker of diabetes. The differences were particularly marked when tested in the mornings.

Sleep deprivation also altered the production and action of other hormones, dampening the secretion of thyroid stimulating hormone and increasing blood levels of cortisol, especially during the afternoon and evening. Elevated evening cortisol levels are typical of much older subjects and are thought to be related to age-related health problems such as insulin resistance and memory impairment.

All of these abnormalities quickly returned to baseline during the recovery period, when subjects spent 12 hours in bed.

You may feel that this is enough sleep, maybe try getting 8 hours sleep often and you might be surprised how good you feel.

Well I am going to try the slow realeasing proteins today.

I'm also for once gonna go on an actual diet... I mean like a boxers diet... i'll cut out the fried chicken and milkshakes and candy.. I've been able to train and keep increasing this much...Hurts to say but Maybe I've hit the ceiling with being able to do what i do with my horrible eating habits. I'm pretty sure this will help right off the back.


And the actual added training I'm doing if you were wondering:
instead of 5 miles 3 times the week..3 miles 6 days a week.TIMED.
Sprints with weighted vest on.
30-50 mins of shadowboxing with 1.5 weighted hand gloves.
Numerous footspeed drills, and working calfs.
Pull-ups with the weighted vest.
Uppercut drills with 50 pound weight *(I'm only at sets of 5-6)*

And then my basic day at the gym 5 days a week.



I am also gonna try to increase my sleep and see how that feels. *(I've been sleeping 4-6 hours a night because of work and boxing and school.. If I cut out watching boxing on tv & dvr, and sleep more maybe I'll feel different)* Its worth a try since I want results. Though i'm not sure of it.



Thanks so much for the answers I've received so far. even if you were just agreeing with someone else... It helps in decisios. If there are more answers leave them and I will definitely try those also.

Bottom line is i have to find something that works. BECAUSE I will not reduce training. no option there. THANKS again guys for answering seriously.

what proof do u have of this? i dont believe that for a second my trainer sleeps around on average 4-5 hours a night, and he is training people all day long and then trains himself at night. i sleep usually from like 11-1130 to 5am and thats plenty for me. some people that sleep 8 hours its too much for them. the more hours u sleep at night, the more tired u get during the day IMO. i sleep in on sundays jus wake up whenever, and if i get more than 8-9 hours, i am beath the whole day from all the rest, i jus wanna get more of it.

i say sleep is different for everyone, some people need 8-9 hours, some people can do fine with 4-6 hours. theres no real answer. its however u feel...

No one is saying MORE than 8-9 hours of sleep. There is too much sleep and too little sleep. 4-5 hours is too little sleep, more than 9 hours is too much.

Your anecdotal evidence with your trainer is useless as actual evidence. There are people who eat poorly, smoke 15 cigars a day with no exercise who live to be 100 years old, and people who lead healthy active lives with proper nutrition and exercise who die of cancer at 25. That does not mean the former get that old BECAUSE they do what they do, but IN SPITE of it.

True, everyone is different, but not that different. Keep in mind that what we're talking about here is an athlete (Da1) who is training an extreme amount with an extreme intensity. He has problems recovering, and admits to only sleeping 4-5 hours. You'd have to be an idiot to not be able to put 2 and 2 together on this one, with all due respect...

No one is saying MORE than 8-9 hours of sleep. There is too much sleep and too little sleep. 4-5 hours is too little sleep, more than 9 hours is too much.

Your anecdotal evidence with your trainer is useless as actual evidence. There are people who eat poorly, smoke 15 cigars a day with no exercise who live to be 100 years old, and people who lead healthy active lives with proper nutrition and exercise who die of cancer at 25. That does not mean the former get that old BECAUSE they do what they do, but IN SPITE of it.

True, everyone is different, but not that different. Keep in mind that what we're talking about here is an athlete (Da1) who is training an extreme amount with an extreme intensity. He has problems recovering, and admits to only sleeping 4-5 hours. You'd have to be an idiot to not be able to put 2 and 2 together on this one, with all due respect...

We're here to help Da1 out not arguing over stuff we can't prove and doesn't really relate to what he wants to know anyway.

Just let it go now.

Haha. True

Dean Karnazes only sleeps 4-5 hours a night and this man runs 150 - 350 miles at a time. The fitter you are, the less sleep you need.

They say an average person needs around 8 hours of sleep but it really does differ for everybody.

Again, anecdotal evidence (an the word evidence is VERY inaccurate in this sense!). There is NO basis for coming to your conclusion you arrive at based on that whatsoever.

All research points in the other direction, and the higher activity level (which is required to be fit), the more crucial sleep is for recovery.

That said, it is obiously true that the fitter you are, the better you can GET BY on little sleep FOR A WHILE. Only problem is, you'll go into overtraining and break down if you keep it up long enough. It is NOT optimal to sleep less than 7-8 hours.

We're here to help Da1 out not arguing over stuff we can't prove and doesn't really relate to what he wants to know anyway.

Just let it go now.

Wrong again, this is at the heart of what he's asking! He needs to get 8 hours of sleep every night, when he's trainig as hard as he is, so it absolutely relates to what he's asking.

You might not be able to prove it (which is obvious, because you're wrong :P), but my point has pretty much been proven. there really aren't many people out there disagreeing with my stance on this.

Wrong again, this is at the heart of what he's asking! He needs to get 8 hours of sleep every night, when he's trainig as hard as he is, so it absolutely relates to what he's asking.

You might not be able to prove it (which is obvious, because you're wrong :P), but my point has pretty much been proven. there really aren't many people out there disagreeing with my stance on this.

**** me you're seriously boring me!!

OK you're right! I'm wrong! Do you feel better now?

And i dont have to prove anything to you. I know exactly how much I sleep everynight and have done for years and I know exactly how i feel. You dont!!

When i sleep less (4-6 hours) I feel more awake and refreshed the next day than when I sleep 6-8 hours at night. The more sleep I get at night the more tired I am the next day. Maybe that's just me but that's just the way it is.

**** me you're seriously boring me!!

OK you're right! I'm wrong! Do you feel better now?

And i dont have to prove anything to you. I know exactly how much i sleep everynight and have done for years and i know exactly how i feel. You dont!!

You don't get it, do you? This is not a dick wagging contest. Nothing personal about it.
I wrote what I wrote to help Da1, since that is what this thread is all about. If you come in an say something I feel is contrary to his best interest, am I just gonna let it lie? No, I'm gonna argue the point, and then let him decide what's more credible. I could care less whether you admit I'm right or not, as long as the subject is as clear to him as possible.

You don't get it, do you? This is not a dick wagging contest. Nothing personal about it.
I wrote what I wrote to help Da1, since that is what this thread is all about. If you come in an say something I feel is contrary to his best interest, am I just gonna let it lie? No, I'm gonna argue the point, and then let him decide what's more credible. I could care less whether you admit I'm right or not, as long as the subject is as clear to him as possible.

Oh shit!

So this isn't a dick wagging contest?

:nonono:

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/conditioning/a/aa062800a.htm

"Logic would say that getting enough sleep is important for optimal sports performance, but there wasn't much evidence to support this theory -- until now. Some recent studies have found that that sleep deprivation can slow glucose metabolism by as much as 30 to 40%.

Eve Van Cauter, Ph.D., from the University of Chicago Medical School, studied the effects of three different durations of sleep in 11 men ages 18 to 27. For the first three nights of the study, the men slept eight hours per night; for the next six nights, they slept four hours per night; for the last seven nights, they slept 12 hours per night.

Results showed that after four hours of sleep per night (the sleep deprivation period), they metabolized glucose least efficiently. Levels of cortisol (a stress hormone) were also higher during sleep deprivation periods, which has been linked to memory impairment, age-related insulin resistance, and impaired recovery in athletes.
Van Cauter said that after only one week of sleep restriction, young, healthy males had glucose levels that were no longer normal and showed a rapid deterioration of the body's functions. This reduced ability of the body to manage glucose is similar to those found in the elderly.

Most of what we know about sleep deprivation has to do with immune function and brain function. This study is interesting because it shows that sleep deprivation can negatively impact physiology that is critical for athletic performance -- glucose metabolism and cortisol status.

What does this all mean?

Glucose and glycogen (stored glucose) are the main sources of energy for athletes. Being able to store glucose in muscle and the liver is particularly important for endurance athletes. Those who are sleep deprived may experience slower storage of glycogen, which prevents storage of the fuel an athlete needs for endurance events beyond 90 minutes.

Elevated levels of cortisol may interfere with tissue repair and growth. Over time, this could prevent an athlete from responding to heavy training and lead to overtraining and injury.

Obviously, more research is necessary. But this study indicates that a chronic lack of sleep may affect metabolic function.

For the endurance athlete, proper sleep during heavy training and before competitions certainly may help and is unlikely to cause harm."

I think that pretty much sums it up.

Da1:

Try googling this "sleep for athletes" and see how many hits you get saying 4-5 hours of sleep is OK. Then compare it to the ones summarizing studies and research saying otherwise.

Actually, very little reading is required to get a pretty clear picture of this.

Da1:

Try googling this "sleep for athletes" and see how many hits you get saying 4-5 hours of sleep is OK. Then compare it to the ones summarizing studies and research saying otherwise.

Actually, very little reading is required to get a pretty clear picture of this.

I think he gets your point.

**** me you're seriously boring me!!

OK you're right! I'm wrong! Do you feel better now?

And i dont have to prove anything to you. I know exactly how much I sleep everynight and have done for years and I know exactly how i feel. You dont!!

When i sleep less (4-6 hours) I feel more awake and refreshed the next day than when I sleep 6-8 hours at night. The more sleep I get at night the more tired I am the next day. Maybe that's just me but that's just the way it is.

absolutely the same for me...

absolutely the same for me...

I wasn't trying to argue with him because obviously it has been proven that the more sleep you get the better refreshed your body is but for me 5 or 6 hours a night is fine. maybe i'm weird. Maybe not. That's just the way it is for me.

I wasn't trying to argue with him because obviously it has been proven that the more sleep you get the better refreshed your body is but for me 5 or 6 hours a night is fine. maybe i'm weird. Maybe not. That's just the way it is for me.

me too man me too. i been sleeping 4-5, 6 AT THE MOST (rarely) each night during the week for the last 5 or 6 years and i always feel energized and refreshed. sometimes i get tired if im on a strict diet, but i dont feel overtrained or drained. i only sleep in one day a week and thats sunday. i see those studies and thats all fine and dandy, but i could care less what the **** someone else tells me about my sleeping patterns. i sleep how i sleep to feel good during the day, and thats that. so i'm right there with ya tuggers...

There are people who eat poorly, smoke 15 cigars a day with no exercise who live to be 100 years old

høres mistenkelig ut som winston churchill

i just started boxing a few weeks ago so i know that feeling of feeling really sore, even after a week of training

according to some research ive done, and as obvious as it may sound, i would say its how much protein your feed your muscles when you need to repair them.

100% whey after hard workouts is essential, and at night you defintelay need a slow releasing protein (casein), because your body will be in a catabolic state and you dont want your body eating your own muscles. according to my research i would take either Ultra Peptide 2.0 or Optimum Nutrition's 100% Casein immediately before bed

Glutamine is also very helpful for muscle maintenance:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/glutamine.html

yeah more sleep! and try the ice cold bath many sportstars use to speed up recovery! i know soliman, khan and lesnar use it!

my coach always tells me think of your body as a battery when it starts running out you must not work it and leave it recharge! although its hard to do he's right

So far not sleeping past 4-6 hours has been ok for me. I go to bed about 12-1 and wake up 4:30-6:00 for work.

But that was with my old training. Even though I was doing so much I didnt need to change anything.

But this is a higher level. I'm very sore and its affecting how well I can put out in the gym training. I don't want to take so many days to heal. I want to heal just as fast, Like when i was training hard from the beggining.


The diet is changed...
i'll no longer eat unhealthy like usual. and add more protein for the muscles to heal. I figure this will help. because I was training hard enough to burn so many calories. I felt kinda invincible so my eating habits were nothing close to an athletes. I am excited about what this area could do for me and my power, training, and body all around.


I'll also try more sleep.
I'm doing alot more, More than i was before. More time to heal and less time watching boxing on TV a night,(which i could probably do without) doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

I'm going to try the protein supp too... but i dont wanna gain weight so I'm going to look into it a lil deeper.


Thank you everyone for the help. ITS really been good to read and I've learned alot. I've read all the posts and they all have good information. I'm going to try most of them and after 2 weeks or so of training at this higher level I will let you know what worked for me personally.

Thanks again for helping with this problem.

yeah more sleep! and try the ice cold bath many sportstars use to speed up recovery! i know soliman, khan and lesnar use it!

Aarh, forgot about that one! We don't have a tub for ice baths, so I make my fighters switch between icy cold and hot showers. I've done it myself as well, and I think it has some effect on recovery as well.

Aarh, forgot about that one! We don't have a tub for ice baths, so I make my fighters switch between icy cold and hot showers. I've done it myself as well, and I think it has some effect on recovery as well.

icy cold? like really cold cold showers? or the icy cold rub on gel stuff?

EDIT link doesn't work

No like a bath filled with ice and cold water, the AFL players here in aus do it after every match, they have bins filled with ice water then switch between that and hot showers. Also maybe consider some swimming in the pool, or just laps jogging around in one, helps you loosen up your muscles without the impact or strain on your body.

No like a bath filled with ice and cold water, the AFL players here in aus do it after every match, they have bins filled with ice water then switch between that and hot showers. Also maybe consider some swimming in the pool, or just laps jogging around in one, helps you loosen up your muscles without the impact or strain on your body.

Thats sounds like a good energy recovery idea.... but i don't have a pool on hand that open to me..

Thanks though I'll definitely keep that close to mind.

yeh thats what i was thinkin, 4-5 hours of sleep Oo, that is probably the main problem, u need at LEAST 8 hours, and that is still only the Minimum.

B....your body needs creatine. Not from NO-Explode (has very little) just plain creatine. You also need L-Glutamine. These help the body to recover faster than normal.

If you need help with this go to bodybuilder.com

I've recently upped my training by alot.

I usually adjust within a week and a half of going hard and sticking to it...

But I haven't..:nonono:

I sparred today and still felt the affects of training from the prior week.


What Can I Take , Do, EAT. to help my body heal the way it normally does.FAST.


I've made it so almost every meal includes protein now. I'm sleeping on purpose more than the 4-5 hours i usually do.


What Can i do. I want to be back at 100% week after week.

Now ya don't have to tell me its impossible just tell me what could help.

REQUIREMENTS:
It can't make me gain weight. I have to stay at 165.
No Creatine.
Natural and long lasting is good to.


I seriously appreciate the answers I'll get and I will read them all. Please help. thanks.

roids taking their affect??

yeh thats what i was thinkin, 4-5 hours of sleep Oo, that is probably the main problem, u need at LEAST 8 hours, and that is still only the Minimum.

I only need 2, 3 at max.

good genes.

I only need 2, 3 at max.

good genes.

So do something then.... if i only needed 2-3 hours of sleep to recover from all the training I do I'd be a monster to you guys.

Every workout doesn't have to be a killer. Its good to throw in a nice light workout every once in a while just to get the blood flowing.

On a side note, I love how everyone suggests you need supplements, because humans have needed supplements for all eternity right?

supplements aren't a neccessity, but can help when your diet is lacking in areas. You can only get out of your body what you put in.

Thats sounds like a good energy recovery idea.... but i don't have a pool on hand that open to me..

Thanks though I'll definitely keep that close to mind.

YOu don't need ice. I've never done it myself - but i remember seeing on that UFC reality show that a contender got the same effects from running a hot bath.

They had a seperate shower - which they ran as cold as possible. They just flit between the two seperate bathroom stations.

It works apparently.

YOu don't need ice. I've never done it myself - but i remember seeing on that UFC reality show that a contender got the same effects from running a hot bath.

They had a seperate shower - which they ran as cold as possible. They just flit between the two seperate bathroom stations.

It works apparently.

Lacking the proper facilities for a real ice bath, that's exactly how I do it. Seems to work pretty well just with the cold shower.

supplements aren't a neccessity, but can help when your diet is lacking in areas. You can only get out of your body what you put in.

You're right, but before you start using supplements you should take a good a critical look at you eating patron.
I have seen a lot of guys eat very bad and unhealthy, but try to gain mass or recover faster with the help of supplements.