Would Vitaly beat Joe Fraizer in his prime?

vitaly dies.

frazier KO 2. joe had tremendous power that neither klit could handle

Frazier would crush Vitali's skull with a monstrous left hook.

Vitali brutally KO8 Frazier

not fair to compare VK with Frazier at this point. Let's see if he can accomplish something before we start talking about him against the greats. If prime Frazier fights this VK..it would be ugly....TIMBER!!!

Foreman was a big strong puncher and he knocked Frazier out. Vitali is a big strong puncher too. But, I think Frazier would knock Vitali out. You have to consider how much the training has advanced though from then to now. It could go either way but I'd go with Frazier.

Foreman was a big strong puncher and he knocked Frazier out. Vitali is a big strong puncher too. But, I think Frazier would knock Vitali out. You have to consider how much the training has advanced though from then to now. It could go either way but I'd go with Frazier.


VK is no George Foreman

I think Vitali would have a hard time nailing Frazier, who's bob and weave defense is slightly underrated. Joe was a master at getting on the inside and i have no doubt he would be all up in Vitali's chest, where Klitchko's power would be diminished. While on the inside, Frazier would seriously test Vitali's body and chin. He doesn't pass. Frazier by mid-late round stoppage.

I was just mentioning that Foreman and Klitschko had a few similarities. I think Frazier would win but it's not correct to say that Frazier would easily win every time. The training and nutrition today are much better. As far as what they accomplished Vitali isn't even close, but that doesn't mean it's not possible for his size and style to give Frazier problems.

Why do people insist on comparing fighters from the past to modern day fighters without taking into account how much the sport has changed? Does anyone here actually think that Larry Bird or Dominique Wilkins would be as good in today's NBA as they once were? If Vitali and Frazier each boxed during the same period, Frazier easily wins. But I just don't see anyone from the past in any sport dominating a modern day athlete. He may win, but if he did it would be close. This is all based on my predictions that Vitali will be able to hold his WBC belt for a fair amount of time. Frazier was also smaller than Byrd.

Vitali is so much bigger and stronger than Frazier and I'm sure he punches harder. No way Frazier reaches him to do any damage. I don't think that fight would be competitive at all. Evolution of the sport. I also say Klit would kick Ali's ass rather easily and Foreman as well. Foreman was the sloppiest heavy in his prime. Watched the Foreman/Ali fight again the other night and I am amazed at how unskilled and slow and plodding Foreman was. He was a big puncher with no skill in his prime. He exhibited much more skill in his second coming in my opinion. Now if you wanna compare a prime Tyson or a prime Lewis or Holy then at this point in time Vitali would be overmatched. But, give the guy some time to show what he can do. I don't think he has reached his full potential yet.

Why do people insist on comparing fighters from the past to modern day fighters without taking into account how much the sport has changed? Does anyone here actually think that Larry Bird or Dominique Wilkins would be as good in today's NBA as they once were? If Vitali and Frazier each boxed during the same period, Frazier easily wins. But I just don't see anyone from the past in any sport dominating a modern day athlete. He may win, but if he did it would be close. This is all based on my predictions that Vitali will be able to hold his WBC belt for a fair amount of time. Frazier was also smaller than Byrd.

:confused: Did you see the USA basketball team this summer? They struggled to get a bronze. Dominique and Bird would easily dominate the NBA in this day in age. Todays heavyweight chumps like Brewster, Bird, and Ruiz wouldnt even be top 10 material in the 70's era.

:confused: Did you see the USA basketball team this summer? They struggled to get a bronze. Dominique and Bird would easily dominate the NBA in this day in age. Todays heavyweight chumps like Brewster, Bird, and Ruiz wouldnt even be top 10 material in the 70's era.

They didn't lose because they suck. They lost because they failed to bring any shooting guards or anyone who can shoot period. If every player on the other team is just going to sit there in the paint how can the slashers or big men do much of anything. They weren't closing out at all on our three point shoots, and our guys still couldn't even make them when they were wide open because we had either point guards, forwards who are slashers and thus can't shoot outside, and big men. If it was mandatory for the NBA players who are U.S. citizens to go to the Olympics if they were chosen they would have blown every team out by 30+ points.

yes, a basketball conversation now

take this **** to the lounge

Vitali is so much bigger and stronger than Frazier and I'm sure he punches harder. No way Frazier reaches him to do any damage. I don't think that fight would be competitive at all. Evolution of the sport. I also say Klit would kick Ali's ass rather easily and Foreman as well. Foreman was the sloppiest heavy in his prime. Watched the Foreman/Ali fight again the other night and I am amazed at how unskilled and slow and plodding Foreman was. He was a big puncher with no skill in his prime. He exhibited much more skill in his second coming in my opinion. Now if you wanna compare a prime Tyson or a prime Lewis or Holy then at this point in time Vitali would be overmatched. But, give the guy some time to show what he can do. I don't think he has reached his full potential yet.

When I read the title of this topic I thought it would all be one way traffic saying Frazier wins,no question. I dont get all this crap about V.K. I feel like Ive been watching a different fighter than some of you guys. The guy I watched against Lewis and Sanders has no right to be mentioned with the Fraziers and Alis. I mean, take away his size and he has nothing. 2 left feet, overated punchpower,suspect stamina and a lack of fundemental skills. I just dont get it. No way do I think Lewis retired cause he was afraid of VK. He got out cause a guy that he woulda wiped out in 4 rounds a few years ago was giving him problems. He knew he didnt have much left.

I have nothing against VK. Hell, I want a dominant champion but even with the state of the division right now its not him. The guy cant box.

A few people have mentioned that cause of advanced training methods that he would be competitive with some of the greats. Are you telling me that the Frazier that went full steam for '15' rounds against Ali wouldnt be able to handle a slow, off balance,incompetent guy like VK? I dont buy this 'modern training'crap. Sure it will make some kinda difference but how much? VK trained to go 12 rounds with Lewis and was gasping by the 5th, as was Lewis. How do u think VK would fare going down the stretch against a guy like Frazier?

I watch some of those old fight tapes and see Ali dancing in the 15 th round like its the first. The guy that mentioned that VK would beat Ali needs to watch some tapes. I would be very surprised if VK took more than 3 rounds from Ali. However Im pretty sure it wouldnt even go the distance. Ali had a chin of iron and while not being a hard hitter did hit solidly,often and with speed. VK would be so outta his depth he wouldnt have a clue what to do with the guy.

I dont think VK even deserves the respect to be mentioned in any 'who would win?' scenarios. If you insist in wondering who would win in fantasy matchups involving VK,dont go to the greats. Id say a better question would be who would win between a primeTim Witherspoon, Michael Dokes or Tony Tubbs against VK. At least Id really have to consider my predictions. But even then Id pick all 3 of those guys to beat him. Bring on the next 'real' heavyweight champion.

Ok you are a noob, so I am going to try to be gentle. First, how does Vitali have a stamina problem? He was throwing 72 punches per round against Lewis. Second, if Vitali isn't the best out there now, then who is? Third, if he can't box, how has he outboxed everyone that he has faced. He hardly loses a round. Fourth, you don't buy this modern training crap, but what about a difference of 40 pounds in weight and 9 inches in height?

"Bring on the next real heavyweight champion." Not going anywhere? Grab a Snickers. The division is going to get much worse before it gets better. There is no one under 28 with more than 10 wins who is any good.

I think that the hieght and reach would be to much for Fraizer. I also think that prime Mike Tyson would beat fraizer. I mean I think Tyson would beat Fraizer easily.

Ok you are a noob, so I am going to try to be gentle. First, how does Vitali have a stamina problem? He was throwing 72 punches per round against Lewis. Second, if Vitali isn't the best out there now, then who is? Third, if he can't box, how has he outboxed everyone that he has faced. He hardly loses a round. Fourth, you don't buy this modern training crap, but what about a difference of 40 pounds in weight and 9 inches in height?

"Bring on the next real heavyweight champion." Not going anywhere? Grab a Snickers. The division is going to get much worse before it gets better. There is no one under 28 with more than 10 wins who is any good.

Rep points for you my brotha!

peace!

VK is big and strong that's it, Frazier would eat him up in a handful of rounds.
The older boxers were much better conditioned than today, even though they don't/didn't look as good 'cosmetically' - well the big boys anyway.

you never get tired of exposing yourself for the useless dreamers that you are. please, go clean ahead, predict that williams will knock vitalli (pronounce white-ally) in 4. just do it!

as for this frazier character, does'ent he look a little punchy these days, took a little many hard punches to the head maybe?

in his day he came on like the energizer bunny, he'd land on ali for 15 rounds and scarsely put him down.. this should TELL you something..

vitalli with his devastating punching power and the word is soviet style latteral movement would make frazier look like just another one of them fools he's dropping all over.

what foreman did to frazier vitalli vould do in the opening round, only he would make frazier look even more comical in the process.

vitalli is a matador with a soviet matador style, and all you stupid bull****ters will never get that.

keep droppin'!

So because our opinion is different to yours then we are bull****ters!! Please - get real.
Frazier only knocking Ali down in all those rounds does tell me something that Ali's chin was very good.
Vitali quit against Byrd when he was kicking his ass, got rocked by an out of shape semi retired fighter and got cut to ribbons by an out of shape lewis who through lack of conditioning had to throw one or two big shots at a time, now because we obviously disagree on Vitali maybe your the bull****ter, but i think not - maybe it's just that you see things differently to me which is exactly what these boards are about.
It's called difference of opinion but there is not alot of need for insults.
Don't get me wrong i don't think VK is a bum i do think he's the no 1 heavy but he is the best of a bad bunch imo, so in that respect i don't think he's that much to shout about

Ok you are a noob, so I am going to try to be gentle. First, how does Vitali have a stamina problem? He was throwing 72 punches per round against Lewis. Second, if Vitali isn't the best out there now, then who is? Third, if he can't box, how has he outboxed everyone that he has faced. He hardly loses a round. Fourth, you don't buy this modern training crap, but what about a difference of 40 pounds in weight and 9 inches in height?

"Bring on the next real heavyweight champion." Not going anywhere? Grab a Snickers. The division is going to get much worse before it gets better. There is no one under 28 with more than 10 wins who is any good.

Firstly, I may be a noob to this board but not to boxing. Ive got 19 years under my belt as a fan. Secondly I never said he wasnt the best heavyweight out there. I know how poor the division is at the moment and thats the only reason that guy even has a belt.

I didnt say modern training wouldnt play some kinda part in this fantasy matchup but it wouldnt be enough to turn the tables. I think VK best case scenario would look like a rerun of Tyson-Tucker and thats being kind. Both tyson and Holyfield fought many guys taller or heavier. They were both great fighters so they adjusted. I cant even believe Im having to justify why I think Joe freaking Frazier would wipe out VK. This shouldnt even be a topic. The guy has barely started his reign. We should at least wait till hes done something.

And yeah I do think he has a stamina problem. No way do Ia see him coming off the stool for the 13th round against a Frazier with pop in his punches or juice in his legs. Hes damn lucky the division is as bad as it is. We wouldnt even be talking about him if hed came around during the early-mid 90's.

I dont think he has outboxed everyone hes faced. Hes used intimidation, reach and strength to beat the so-so guys out there. The time will come when he loses his opponents respect maybe from a knockdown or close fight. When that happens every guy that gets in the ring with him will realy believe they can beat him just like whats happening to his brother. WK is never gonna have it as easy as he did before and the same fate awaits VK. Regardless, is it that much to boast about saying that he outboxed everyone he faced with the exception of Lewis? The divisions a mess. Could he have done what Bowe did to Hollyfield in that first fight? No chance. Hell, if Sanders had been fighting regularly and was in shape when they fought he might have beat him.

in his day he came on like the energizer bunny, he'd land on ali for 15 rounds and scarsely put him down.. this should TELL you something..

vitalli with his devastating punching power and the word is soviet style latteral movement would make frazier look like just another one of them fools he's dropping all over.

what foreman did to frazier vitalli vould do in the opening round, only he would make frazier look even more comical in the process.

vitalli is a matador with a soviet matador style, and all you stupid bull****ters will never get that.

keep droppin'!

So you think Frazier is a light hitter because he could only knock Ali down once? I suppose Foreman and Liston were weak punchers too. Frazier hurt Ali, who could take punishment just about as good as any fighter in history, on numerous occasions. I seriously doubt that Vitali would be able to hit Ali cleanly, let alone hurt him.

And Vitali would destroy Frazier worse than Foreman did? Firstly, the Frazier that fought Foreman wasn't in his prime and about 10 pounds overweight. Secondly, Vitali fights nothing like Foreman, nor does he have anything close to George's power. It was Foreman's wide, looping, hooks, and especially the left uppercut that did Frazier in. Vitali's punches are sometimes sloppy and off balance, but they are straighter than Foreman's. But i think those straight punches would make it hard for Vitali to nail Frazier, whose bob and weave defense if severely underrated.

Vitali would possibly disrupt Frazier in the early rounds due to his tremendous size advantage. However, i see Frazier weather an initial storm, and coming on very strong in the mid rounds and getting on the inside, where he does serious damage. I don't think Vitali would be able to take the punishment and Joe closes the show.

So because our opinion is different to yours then we are bull****ters!! Please - get real.
Frazier only knocking Ali down in all those rounds does tell me something that Ali's chin was very good.
Vitali quit against Byrd when he was kicking his ass, got rocked by an out of shape semi retired fighter and got cut to ribbons by an out of shape lewis who through lack of conditioning had to throw one or two big shots at a time, now because we obviously disagree on Vitali maybe your the bull****ter, but i think not - maybe it's just that you see things differently to me which is exactly what these boards are about.
It's called difference of opinion but there is not alot of need for insults.
Don't get me wrong i don't think VK is a bum i do think he's the no 1 heavy but he is the best of a bad bunch imo, so in that respect i don't think he's that much to shout about

Why are you downplaying the hardest hitting southpaw in recent memory's punching power?

Firstly, I may be a noob to this board but not to boxing. Ive got 19 years under my belt as a fan. Secondly I never said he wasnt the best heavyweight out there. I know how poor the division is at the moment and thats the only reason that guy even has a belt.

I didnt say modern training wouldnt play some kinda part in this fantasy matchup but it wouldnt be enough to turn the tables. I think VK best case scenario would look like a rerun of Tyson-Tucker and thats being kind. Both tyson and Holyfield fought many guys taller or heavier. They were both great fighters so they adjusted. I cant even believe Im having to justify why I think Joe freaking Frazier would wipe out VK. This shouldnt even be a topic. The guy has barely started his reign. We should at least wait till hes done something.

And yeah I do think he has a stamina problem. No way do Ia see him coming off the stool for the 13th round against a Frazier with pop in his punches or juice in his legs. Hes damn lucky the division is as bad as it is. We wouldnt even be talking about him if hed came around during the early-mid 90's.

I dont think he has outboxed everyone hes faced. Hes used intimidation, reach and strength to beat the so-so guys out there. The time will come when he loses his opponents respect maybe from a knockdown or close fight. When that happens every guy that gets in the ring with him will realy believe they can beat him just like whats happening to his brother. WK is never gonna have it as easy as he did before and the same fate awaits VK. Regardless, is it that much to boast about saying that he outboxed everyone he faced with the exception of Lewis? The divisions a mess. Could he have done what Bowe did to Hollyfield in that first fight? No chance. Hell, if Sanders had been fighting regularly and was in shape when they fought he might have beat him.

Tyson and Holyfield weighed in the 215-220 range and they never beat anyone as big and tall as Vital. Tucker weighed the same as Tyson for their fight at 221 lbs, and Tucker is only 6'5''. So that's 6 inches in height and ZERO pounds in weight difference. The Joe Frazier that beat Ali weighed 205 lbs. and he's 5'11''. The Vitali Klitschko who fought Lewis weighed 248 lbs. and he's nearly 6'8". So that's 43 lbs in weight and 9 inches in height. That's quite a lot compared to your scenarios. How does someone not outbox their opponents when he hardly loses a round? The last time I checked he outlanded Lewis by more than 50 punches and that he was winning the fight 4 rounds to 2 when the fight was stopped on cuts. How does cutting your opponent have anything to do with outboxing him? This just in WK and VK are not the same person. VK has a great chin, WK doesn't. Do you understand?

Frazier would beat Klitschko just on stamina alone, nevermind sueprior skills, toughness, and quickness. He would murder Vitali with a vicious body attack. And please no comparisons to Foreman, b/c Klitschko doesn't have near the power of George and Foreman beat Frazier with a punch Klitschko doesn't even know how throw properly, the uppercut. Bonavena hits harder then Vitali and Frazier took his best shots and kept coming . . .

Tyson and Holyfield weighed in the 215-220 range and they never beat anyone as big and tall as Vital. Tucker weighed the same as Tyson for their fight at 221 lbs, and Tucker is only 6'5''. So that's 6 inches in height and ZERO pounds in weight difference. The Joe Frazier that beat Ali weighed 205 lbs. and he's 5'11''. The Vitali Klitschko who fought Lewis weighed 248 lbs. and he's nearly 6'8". So that's 43 lbs in weight and 9 inches in height. That's quite a lot compared to your scenarios. How does someone not outbox their opponents when he hardly loses a round? The last time I checked he outlanded Lewis by more than 50 punches and that he was winning the fight 4 rounds to 2 when the fight was stopped on cuts. How does cutting your opponent have anything to do with outboxing him? This just in WK and VK are not the same person. VK has a great chin, WK doesn't. Do you understand?




....Your exactly right, and when Vitali stays on top for the next 4 or 5 years then the doubters will see that they were wrong about him. He is going to be a tough guy for anyone to beat over the next several years. His reign is gonna be a long one. Even so, the doubters will probably just say that he fought when the heavy division was weak and he won't get his due. No matter what he does your gonna have guys talk about his skills and coordination. Steward says he is one of the best big athletes he has ever seen. His style may be awkward but he is extremely skilled and extremely talented. Everybody underestimates him until they get in the ring with him, feel his power, and see that he isn't easy to hit and even harder to hurt. Then it's like "oh ****".

How did Bonavena hit harder than Vitali. When Julius Francis said that Vitali hits just as hard as Tyson. Another guy who is 5'11'' and weighs less than Byrd, now hits harder than Vitali. You guys really need to wake up.

Frazier would beat Klitschko just on stamina alone, nevermind sueprior skills, toughness, and quickness. He would murder Vitali with a vicious body attack. And please no comparisons to Foreman, b/c Klitschko doesn't have near the power of George and Foreman beat Frazier with a punch Klitschko doesn't even know how throw properly, the uppercut. Bonavena hits harder then Vitali and Frazier took his best shots and kept coming . . .



...Julius Francis fought Tyson, Williams, Lewis, and Vitali. The British press wants him to predict a Williams win over big V and he won't do it because he knows the score. He predicted Tyson wold lose to Williams and he was dead on. He also says in an interview that Vitali punches just as hard as Tyson and Lewis and that all three have devastating one punch power. To say that little Bonavena or little tiny Joe Frazier punches as hard as big ass Vitali is a joke. STFU and go back to your boxing archives.

...Julius Francis fought Tyson, Williams, Lewis, and Vitali. The British press wants him to predict a Williams win over big V and he won't do it because he knows the score. He predicted Tyson wold lose to Williams and he was dead on. He also says in an interview that Vitali punches just as hard as Tyson and Lewis and that all three have devastating one punch power. To say that little Bonavena or little tiny Joe Frazier punches as hard as big ass Vitali is a joke. STFU and go back to your boxing archives.


"little tiny Joe Frazier?" oh brother, there goes your credibility.

VK is a damn good fighter who may someday be considered great. Lets give him a chance to prove it first before we put him above Frazier and alike.

"little tiny Joe Frazier?" oh brother, there goes your credibility.

VK is a damn good fighter who may someday be considered great. Lets give him a chance to prove it first before we put him above Frazier and alike.


....How can I lose my credibility by calling Joe Frazier little? Compared to Vitali he is most definitely little. There is no debate about it.

....How can I lose my credibility by calling Joe Frazier little? Compared to Vitali he is most definitely little. There is no debate about it.

If your argument is that Frazier is shorter and lighter than VK..we are in agreement. Maybe I misunderstood your comments. I thought you meant that VK hits harder than Frazier and that VK should be the favorite in a fight against Joe....my apolgies..

Tyson and Holyfield weighed in the 215-220 range and they never beat anyone as big and tall as Vital. Tucker weighed the same as Tyson for their fight at 221 lbs, and Tucker is only 6'5''. So that's 6 inches in height and ZERO pounds in weight difference. The Joe Frazier that beat Ali weighed 205 lbs. and he's 5'11''. The Vitali Klitschko who fought Lewis weighed 248 lbs. and he's nearly 6'8". So that's 43 lbs in weight and 9 inches in height. That's quite a lot compared to your scenarios. How does someone not outbox their opponents when he hardly loses a round? The last time I checked he outlanded Lewis by more than 50 punches and that he was winning the fight 4 rounds to 2 when the fight was stopped on cuts. How does cutting your opponent have anything to do with outboxing him? This just in WK and VK are not the same person. VK has a great chin, WK doesn't. Do you understand?

Whats with the patronizing tone? So, u have told me the exact size difference between them. U know u get to a point when that size stops working for you and starts working against u. As a previous poster mentioned, Joe would likely have trouble for a round or 2. But when he becomes accustomed to VK size and strength he would be relentless. VK is no Ali. He is also no Foreman. Hed soak up what he could for maybe 8 or 9 rounds (at most) and when that massive weight hes carrying starts getting harder to lug around the ring Joe would have him. Fight over.

I cant believe people are so impressed with Vitalis performance against Lewis. If Vitali thinks he almost beat the real Lewis that night then he better wake up. Lewis was past his best years before that. I also think Lennox wouldve won if the fight had gone on. His experience woulda likely got him thru. Or not. Who knows. I will say this though, the biggest surprise i got from that fight was VK's chin. Yeah, he can take a shot i will give him that.

But a guy like Joe Frazier hits hard and often and hard and often and hard and often. He had Ali, who maybe had the best chin outta the whole lot of em, staggering several times and down once in their 3 fights. If VK had similiar power to Foreman then Id give him a chance but he doesnt. The night VK fought Lennox, foreman wouldve had Lewis outta there in under 4 rounds. I just dont see a way for him to beat Frazier. Thats 'my' opinion. I enjoy hearing other peoples opinions though without the need to patronise or deride. Im not that insecure about my own thoughts on the matter unlike some people.

vitali by ko 2

Yes, Vitali does have a significant size advantage. Does that translate into an automatic victory? No, and it has been proven in the past. Primo Carnera had a 64 pound advantage over Joe Louis, result: Louis TKO6 Carnera. Jess Willard had a 5 inch height and 58 pound advantage, result Dempsey TKO3 Willard, in possibly the worst beating in boxing history. Now, this alone doesn't mean Frazier beats Klitschko either. It's simply just to show that a significantly larger fighter can be overcome, and sometimes dominated. Size doesn't mean anything, if you can't use it.

And i don't think Vitali can use his size effectively against Frazier, who puts on sustained pressure as good as any fighter that has ever lived.

Big K against Frazier? Frazier would eat him alive, you think because you saw Chris Byrd get beat up by Big K that Frazier would be the same?
****, no, though Frazier was smaller than Byrd in his prime, HE WAS A BIGGER PUNCHER! Ask someone who fought him, the VERY FACT THAT HE WAS ABLE TO KNOCK ALI DOWN shows how much power his left hook had. Ali had one of the greatest chins in boxing history, he faced some of the biggest punchers of all time, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Marciano, just to name a few, and he took their shots... I doubt Vitaly has as much power in his punches as Frazier did, and i remember seeing V.K. hammer Lennox Lewis with his best shots and Lennox took them, but one big right hand from Lennox sent him backwards into the ropes. After some trouble in the opening rounds i see Frazier KTFO Big K!

Ali had one of the greatest chins in boxing history, he faced some of the biggest punchers of all time, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Marciano,



......Ali fought Marciano??? Damn I do learn something new everyday from these forums.

...Julius Francis fought Tyson, Williams, Lewis, and Vitali. The British press wants him to predict a Williams win over big V and he won't do it because he knows the score. He predicted Tyson wold lose to Williams and he was dead on. He also says in an interview that Vitali punches just as hard as Tyson and Lewis and that all three have devastating one punch power. To say that little Bonavena or little tiny Joe Frazier punches as hard as big ass Vitali is a joke. STFU and go back to your boxing archives.

First off, being 5'11 doesn't mean your not a big puncher you clown. Bonavena was a FIT 210 lbs on a compact frame and was what David Tua should've been if he had ever gotten his ass in proper shape. And Francis can say all he wants he doesn't even remember the punches from Tyson b/c Mike KTFO him like a bad habit. Please explain to me how Klitschko can land HIS BEST PUNCH on Lewis and Sanders as many times as he did and they didn't even go down, the same Lewis who got wobbled by Mercer, Bruno, Tucker, Akinwande, Briggs etc. and knocked out by Rahman and McCall and Corrie 'golf is my true passion' Sanders who got starched by Rahman and journeyman Nate Tubbs. And the size thing is stupid-Buster Mathis was 245 and 6'5 and a much better boxer then Vitali will ever be and Frazier ate him up. How could someone who doesn't know how to fight on the inside AT ALL beat Joe Frazier, the Joe Frazier who was able to get inside on Ali, who's jab and speed was in ANOTHER league to Klitschko. Frazier would bob and weave inside of Klitschko's pawing and slow lefts and rights with no problem. And Vitali was tired against Sanders, b/c Corrie managed to throw 20 second bursts a round?? Klitschko would get knocked out by his own fatigue with the work-rate and attack Frazier would provide. This really is a no-contest and if you Klitschko fans want to spout off how good he is in this era, go right ahead. But saying he would beat an all time great like Frazier just shows a lack of knowledge.

First off, being 5'11 doesn't mean your not a big puncher you clown. Bonavena was a FIT 210 lbs on a compact frame and was what David Tua should've been if he had ever gotten his ass in proper shape. And Francis can say all he wants he doesn't even remember the punches from Tyson b/c Mike KTFO him like a bad habit. Please explain to me how Klitschko can land HIS BEST PUNCH on Lewis and Sanders as many times as he did and they didn't even go down, the same Lewis who got wobbled by Mercer, Bruno, Tucker, Akinwande, Briggs etc. and knocked out by Rahman and McCall and Corrie 'golf is my true passion' Sanders who got starched by Rahman and journeyman Nate Tubbs. And the size thing is stupid-Buster Mathis was 245 and 6'5 and a much better boxer then Vitali will ever be and Frazier ate him up. How could someone who doesn't know how to fight on the inside AT ALL beat Joe Frazier, the Joe Frazier who was able to get inside on Ali, who's jab and speed was in ANOTHER league to Klitschko. Frazier would bob and weave inside of Klitschko's pawing and slow lefts and rights with no problem. And Vitali was tired against Sanders, b/c Corrie managed to throw 20 second bursts a round?? Klitschko would get knocked out by his own fatigue with the work-rate and attack Frazier would provide. This really is a no-contest and if you Klitschko fans want to spout off how good he is in this era, go right ahead. But saying he would beat an all time great like Frazier just shows a lack of knowledge.
Have you ever wondered if Ali was as great as people said he was?

I don't listen to what other people say about Ali, I've seen many of his fights numerous times-is he 'the greatest??' In my opinion no. Was he one of the greatest HWs of all time? NO question. Does his hand and footspeed rank up with the fastest HWs ever-no question.

Jesus Christ!

Some people actually think Vitali would beat an all-timer like Joe Frazier?

Nevermind a matchup with Frazier, Vitali Klitschko would have his struggles with the likes of Jess Willard and Primo Carnera.

Whats with the patronizing tone? So, u have told me the exact size difference between them. U know u get to a point when that size stops working for you and starts working against u. As a previous poster mentioned, Joe would likely have trouble for a round or 2. But when he becomes accustomed to VK size and strength he would be relentless. VK is no Ali. He is also no Foreman. Hed soak up what he could for maybe 8 or 9 rounds (at most) and when that massive weight hes carrying starts getting harder to lug around the ring Joe would have him. Fight over.

I cant believe people are so impressed with Vitalis performance against Lewis. If Vitali thinks he almost beat the real Lewis that night then he better wake up. Lewis was past his best years before that. I also think Lennox wouldve won if the fight had gone on. His experience woulda likely got him thru. Or not. Who knows. I will say this though, the biggest surprise i got from that fight was VK's chin. Yeah, he can take a shot i will give him that.

But a guy like Joe Frazier hits hard and often and hard and often and hard and often. He had Ali, who maybe had the best chin outta the whole lot of em, staggering several times and down once in their 3 fights. If VK had similiar power to Foreman then Id give him a chance but he doesnt. The night VK fought Lennox, foreman wouldve had Lewis outta there in under 4 rounds. I just dont see a way for him to beat Frazier. Thats 'my' opinion. I enjoy hearing other peoples opinions though without the need to patronise or deride. Im not that insecure about my own thoughts on the matter unlike some people.

You can't compare athleticism of the past to modern day athleticism. They don't hit as hard back then as they do now plane and simple. Bird or Wilkens would be nothing that they were in the 80s if they played current NBA. Why is this so hard for people to grasp? If Frazier wins it'd be by points. How in the world would he be able to reach Vitali upstairs? Steward would make sure that his cup was as high as Lewis's was against Holyfield. It was nearly covering his pectorals, so that renders the body punch ineffective. And there is no way someone that short would be able to catch him upstairs. Speaking of Lewis I'd pick Lewis prime for prime to beat any heavyweight.

Jesus Christ!

Some people actually think Vitali would beat an all-timer like Joe Frazier?

Nevermind a matchup with Frazier, Vitali Klitschko would have his struggles with the likes of Jess Willard and Primo Carnera.

Its not our fault that you are mentally challenged.

First off, being 5'11 doesn't mean your not a big puncher you clown. Bonavena was a FIT 210 lbs on a compact frame and was what David Tua should've been if he had ever gotten his ass in proper shape. And Francis can say all he wants he doesn't even remember the punches from Tyson b/c Mike KTFO him like a bad habit. Please explain to me how Klitschko can land HIS BEST PUNCH on Lewis and Sanders as many times as he did and they didn't even go down, the same Lewis who got wobbled by Mercer, Bruno, Tucker, Akinwande, Briggs etc. and knocked out by Rahman and McCall and Corrie 'golf is my true passion' Sanders who got starched by Rahman and journeyman Nate Tubbs. And the size thing is stupid-Buster Mathis was 245 and 6'5 and a much better boxer then Vitali will ever be and Frazier ate him up. How could someone who doesn't know how to fight on the inside AT ALL beat Joe Frazier, the Joe Frazier who was able to get inside on Ali, who's jab and speed was in ANOTHER league to Klitschko. Frazier would bob and weave inside of Klitschko's pawing and slow lefts and rights with no problem. And Vitali was tired against Sanders, b/c Corrie managed to throw 20 second bursts a round?? Klitschko would get knocked out by his own fatigue with the work-rate and attack Frazier would provide. This really is a no-contest and if you Klitschko fans want to spout off how good he is in this era, go right ahead. But saying he would beat an all time great like Frazier just shows a lack of knowledge.

No, not recognizing the evolution of boxing shows a lack of knowledge.

You can't compare athleticism of the past to modern day athleticism. They don't hit as hard back then as they do now plane and simple. Bird or Wilkens would be nothing that they were in the 80s if they played current NBA. Why is this so hard for people to grasp? If Frazier wins it'd be by points. How in the world would he be able to reach Vitali upstairs? Steward would make sure that his cup was as high as Lewis's was against Holyfield. It was nearly covering his pectorals, so that renders the body punch ineffective. And there is no way someone that short would be able to catch him upstairs. Speaking of Lewis I'd pick Lewis prime for prime to beat any heavyweight.

I don't want to get off topic, but i just can't shake off what you said about Bird and Wilkins. Are you saying that the 80s players wouldn't be able to compete with today's NBA stars? Bird was pretty much Peja Stojacovic and Dirk Nowitzki rolled into one but wasn't soft, could play defense, was ten times more clutch and had ten times the understanding of the game. So Jordan, who played in the same era as Wilkins, wouldn't a superstar today? Hell, a 40 year old version of Mike was still one of the top 10 players in the league. Don't mistake athleticism and flashy dunks as being better.

As for the statement, "They don't hit as hard back then as they do now plane and simple", how could anyone prove this?

Its not our fault that you are mentally challenged.

Good one, kid.

Nor is it your fault that you've only been a boxing fan for a couple of years and have bought into this media creation that is known as Vitali Klitschko.

But don't worry, I have been there before when I believed the hype surrounding both Duane Bobick and Gerry Cooney, so I give you my sympathy in advance, for when Vitali takes that eventual crash to the canvas that will happen sooner, rather than later.

you never get tired of exposing yourself for the useless dreamers that you are. please, go clean ahead, predict that williams will knock vitalli (pronounce white-ally) in 4. just do it!

as for this frazier character, does'ent he look a little punchy these days, took a little many hard punches to the head maybe?

in his day he came on like the energizer bunny, he'd land on ali for 15 rounds and scarsely put him down.. this should TELL you something..

vitalli with his devastating punching power and the word is soviet style latteral movement would make frazier look like just another one of them fools he's dropping all over.

what foreman did to frazier vitalli vould do in the opening round, only he would make frazier look even more comical in the process.

vitalli is a matador with a soviet matador style, and all you stupid bull****ters will never get that.

keep droppin'!

Your absolutely right that, people dont see the genius of the style, i sparred with a 40year about 5.8 and 200 pounds.
First i lauft of his weird russian style, no jabb, no footwork.
Seemed wery weird, but he gave a hell of a sparring.
Althiug im 6ft 185pounds, box active and am in a lopt better shape.
It looks stupid but its damn efectiv having an unortodox style.
Have all you guys talking about hi socalled boxing style tried too fight it? I think not.
Oh by the way Vits style is a lot more german than soviet.

God dag forresten.

Your absolutely right that, people dont see the genius of the style, i sparred with a 40year about 5.8 and 200 pounds.
First i lauft of his weird russian style, no jabb, no footwork.
Seemed wery weird, but he gave a hell of a sparring.
Althiug im 6ft 185pounds, box active and am in a lopt better shape.
It looks stupid but its damn efectiv having an unortodox style.
Have all you guys talking about hi socalled boxing style tried too fight it? I think not.
Oh by the way Vits style is a lot more german than soviet.

God dag forresten.

Hey, you box aktiv? what club do you represent?

Hyggelig.

Bird or Wilkens would be nothing that they were in the 80s if they played current NBA. Why is this so hard for people to grasp?


I don't consider Wilkens an all time elite player becuase he was strickly a ball hog/scorer who player no d and never won a thing.

The reason it is so hard to grasp for us simpletons, is becuase it is a bunch of crap. Bird,Magic,Isaiah, Moses Malone,etc would dominate today just as they did in the 80's. Todays lazy, no defense playing jungle ballers can't hold a candle to those guys. Having bigger muscles doesn't make you a better athlete. If you watch todays NBA and think they are better than the 80's, you are crazy. The best style of basketball to watch now is Europeen ball. They play true basketball. Play defense, pass the ball and know how to shoot outside of 10 feet.

First off, being 5'11 doesn't mean your not a big puncher you clown. Bonavena was a FIT 210 lbs on a compact frame and was what David Tua should've been if he had ever gotten his ass in proper shape. And Francis can say all he wants he doesn't even remember the punches from Tyson b/c Mike KTFO him like a bad habit. Please explain to me how Klitschko can land HIS BEST PUNCH on Lewis and Sanders as many times as he did and they didn't even go down, the same Lewis who got wobbled by Mercer, Bruno, Tucker, Akinwande, Briggs etc. and knocked out by Rahman and McCall and Corrie 'golf is my true passion' Sanders who got starched by Rahman and journeyman Nate Tubbs. And the size thing is stupid-Buster Mathis was 245 and 6'5 and a much better boxer then Vitali will ever be and Frazier ate him up. How could someone who doesn't know how to fight on the inside AT ALL beat Joe Frazier, the Joe Frazier who was able to get inside on Ali, who's jab and speed was in ANOTHER league to Klitschko. Frazier would bob and weave inside of Klitschko's pawing and slow lefts and rights with no problem. And Vitali was tired against Sanders, b/c Corrie managed to throw 20 second bursts a round?? Klitschko would get knocked out by his own fatigue with the work-rate and attack Frazier would provide. This really is a no-contest and if you Klitschko fans want to spout off how good he is in this era, go right ahead. But saying he would beat an all time great like Frazier just shows a lack of knowledge.




...Hello??? Dumbass, Vitali knocked out Francis in the 2nd round as well, and Williams knocked him out in the 4th. Buster Mathis?? lol lol lol Your killing me man. Frazier has nothing at all to hurt Vitali with and he would get pushed and bullied all over the ring before getting brutaly stopped in the 2nd or 3rd round. Frazier is going to overpower Vitali and get on the inside without taking any punishment and knock him out??? The guys in the white coats are outside your door right now. Go quietly, take your meds when they tell you to, and avoid direct eye contact.

Of course he can get on the inside b/c Frazier was one of the quickest and most skilled bobbers and weavers in history, and Vitali is a SLOW puncher. This isn't wrestling, once Frazier bobs his way in, Klitschko can do NOTHING, because the man has NO inside fighting game-no combinations, no short hooks, no uppercuts. So you're saying it'd be just like the Foreman fight, in which George, who had much faster hands then Klitschko, beat Frazier with uppercuts and short hooks, punches that Vitali doesn't even know how to throw. Yeah, real smart your analysis is. And who cares what Francis said? According to Tommy Morrison Joe Hipp was the hardest puncher he ever faced-this from a man who was put into another zone by Ray Mercer. Hae you even seen Francis-Klitschko and Francis-Tyson??? Tell me which fight Francis was hurt more in and get back to me you ignorant mutt. And of course you chose to ignore my examples of the Lewis and Sanders fights, which clearly exposed Vitali's punching power . . . .

I don't consider Wilkens an all time elite player becuase he was strickly a ball hog/scorer who player no d and never won a thing.

The reason it is so hard to grasp for us simpletons, is becuase it is a bunch of crap. Bird,Magic,Isaiah, Moses Malone,etc would dominate today just as they did in the 80's. Todays lazy, no defense playing jungle ballers can't hold a candle to those guys. Having bigger muscles doesn't make you a better athlete. If you watch todays NBA and think they are better than the 80's, you are crazy. The best style of basketball to watch now is Europeen ball. They play true basketball. Play defense, pass the ball and know how to shoot outside of 10 feet.

I know a lot more about basketball than I do about boxing. Yes it would be nice if the NBA players actually played defense and didn't do so much one on one ball hogging. An all star team of Europeans or of 80s players would be dominated by an all star team of modern day players. Besides overall basketball skills, basketball revolves around quickness and jumping ability. Modern day NBA players would be too quick and jump too high for Byrd, Magic and others just as they are for European players today.
It'd be like Crenshaw v. the team in hoosiers. Enough said.

Of course he can get on the inside b/c Frazier was one of the quickest and most skilled bobbers and weavers in history, and Vitali is a SLOW puncher. This isn't wrestling, once Frazier bobs his way in, Klitschko can do NOTHING, because the man has NO inside fighting game-no combinations, no short hooks, no uppercuts. So you're saying it'd be just like the Foreman fight, in which George, who had much faster hands then Klitschko, beat Frazier with uppercuts and short hooks, punches that Vitali doesn't even know how to throw. Yeah, real smart your analysis is. And who cares what Francis said? According to Tommy Morrison Joe Hipp was the hardest puncher he ever faced-this from a man who was put into another zone by Ray Mercer. Hae you even seen Francis-Klitschko and Francis-Tyson??? Tell me which fight Francis was hurt more in and get back to me you ignorant mutt. And of course you chose to ignore my examples of the Lewis and Sanders fights, which clearly exposed Vitali's punching power . . . .

You still are comparing modern day power to power in the past, which just can't do. How did Lewis and Sanders clearly expose his punching power. He respected their power too much, so he never gave them his best shot. Johnson, Francis, and others on the other hand felt his power.

Did you even see Mercer v. Morrison. That punch was pretty much squarely landed on the back of Morrison's head.

The USA Olympic basketball team that took bronze 2004 summer games was twice as athletic and could jump three times as high as any other team. Did they dominate the lesser athletic teams such as Argentina, Puerto Rico, etc.? Nope. The true essence of basketbell, or the ingredient to success is defense and teamwork, two elements that are lost to many of today's players. This claim is solidified by the Detroit Pistons beating the much more talented Los Angeles Lakers, in the past NBA finals.

And how come we can't compare the power of today's fighters with that over past fighters? Is there solid proof that today's boxers punch harder?

You guys obviously don't much about basketball. Here was a previous post of mine:

They didn't lose because they suck. They lost because they failed to bring any shooting guards or anyone who can shoot period. If every player on the other team is just going to sit there in the paint how can the slashers or big men do much of anything. They weren't closing out at all on our three point shoots, and our guys still couldn't even make them when they were wide open because we had either point guards, forwards who are slashers and thus can't shoot outside, and big men. If it was mandatory for the NBA players who are U.S. citizens to go to the Olympics if they were chosen they would have blown every team out by 30+ points.

The USA Olympic basketball team that took bronze 2004 summer games was twice as athletic and could jump three times as high as any other team. Did they dominate the lesser athletic teams such as Argentina, Puerto Rico, etc.? Nope. The true essence of basketbell, or the ingredient to success is defense and teamwork, two elements that are lost to many of today's players. This claim is solidified by the Detroit Pistons beating the much more talented Los Angeles Lakers, in the past NBA finals.

And how come we can't compare the power of today's fighters with that over past fighters? Is there solid proof that today's boxers punch harder?

If all you needed was defense and teamwork in order to win, then inner city schools wouldn't completely dominate high school basketball, and the colleges with the best recruiting processes wouldn't dominate either.

I guess they didn't have that device like they had in Rocky IV that measured the pounds of pressure of Drago's punches back in the day. Its really not that hard someone who is bigger than someone else is going to throw harder punches than than the smaller more often than not. Why do you think that boxers lose their power when they move up in weight?

I know a lot more about basketball than I do about boxing. Yes it would be nice if the NBA players actually played defense and didn't do so much one on one ball hogging. An all star team of Europeans or of 80s players would be dominated by an all star team of modern day players. Besides overall basketball skills, basketball revolves around quickness and jumping ability. Modern day NBA players would be too quick and jump too high for Byrd, Magic and others just as they are for European players today.
It'd be like Crenshaw v. the team in hoosiers. Enough said.

kind of like the Olympics this year with USA. Talent wise, they should have won every game by 30 points.

kind of like the Olympics this year with USA. Talent wise, they should have won every game by 30 points.

See above post.

You guys obviously don't much about basketball. Here was a previous post of mine:

They didn't lose because they suck. They lost because they failed to bring any shooting guards or anyone who can shoot period. If every player on the other team is just going to sit there in the paint how can the slashers or big men do much of anything. They weren't closing out at all on our three point shoots, and our guys still couldn't even make them when they were wide open because we had either point guards, forwards who are slashers and thus can't shoot outside, and big men. If it was mandatory for the NBA players who are U.S. citizens to go to the Olympics if they were chosen they would have blown every team out by 30+ points.


we agree on the shooter theory. Whoever picked the team..is an idiot.

on the previous point..I'm astounded and can't even bring myself to argue with you on the 80's players. How can you say Magic,Bird and Jordan are not as good as the current players. I know you didn't mention Jordan by name, but if you say Magic and Bird, its the same thing. It's so absurd, I think your probably screwing with me and don't really mean it.


I guess Bob Gibson is not as good as Mark Mulder either?

If all you needed was defense and teamwork in order to win, then inner city schools wouldn't completely dominate high school basketball, and the colleges with the best recruiting processes wouldn't dominate either.

I guess they didn't have that device like they had in Rocky IV that measured the pounds of pressure of Drago's punches back in the day. Its really not that hard someone who is bigger than someone else is going to throw harder punches than than the smaller more often than not. Why do you think that boxers lose their power when they move up in weight?

I didn’t say that all you need is defense and teamwork to win. However, they are the essential elements to succeeding. And you really think high school players can play defense or have teamwork? Yes, to a certain point, but they lack knowledge and experience. So athleticism can overcome inexperience. But once you enter the pros, athleticism can only get you so far.

What does recruiting have to do with anything? Dominant college teams dominate because the players are well coach, because of pure athleticism. College is where players learn teamwork, the fundamentals, and how to play defense. Why do you think players today are so selfish and lack defensive skills? Because they forego college.

As for the US squad, yes, I do realize that the reason they lost is because they lacked shooting. But I thought you said “basketball revolves around quickness and jumping ability”. If this were true, why didn’t the US win, since they were ten times as athletically gifted as the other teams? And why couldn’t the US team make a 3 or jump shot? Because NBA is obsessed with dunking and slashing into the lanes. They prefer flash over a mid-range jump shot. If anything, this “evolution” of basketball has deteriorated the game.

I still don’t understand why you don’t think Byrd could compete. He was the complete package: possibly the purest shooter of all-time, could board, could defend, was clutch, and understood the game better than anyone else. Simply because he wasn’t as quick or couldn’t jump too high, he would be crap? How do you explain Tim Duncan, who isn’t too athletic or dunk crazy? It’s because he’s unselfish, can play defense, and has a better grasp of fundamentals than anyone else in the league.

As for punching power, size isn’t the sole determining factor. Jess Willard towered over Jack Dempsey and Primo Carnera over Joe Louis/Max Baer, yet their power was dwarved by the much smaller men. Yes, size can determine power, but it’s not the deciding factor.

'Modern-day power??' what are you 10 years old??? Just b/c Klitschko lifts some weights (and judging by his physique it doesn't look like he does much of that) he now has power that the old timers didn't possess??? Punching power has nothing to do with how much you can bench-press, but I suppose you wouldn't know much about that. Someone who doesn't twist their hips and turns their feet properly, like Klitschko, will never be a one-punch KO artist, b/c he is limiting the torque his body will possess for each punch. Klit's punching technique plain sucks. The guy throws a nice straight right hand and that's it. His jab sucks (he pushes out his jab, no stepping into it, no snap, no twist of the glove etc.), his left hook sucks. And those are the 3 punches he throws right there . . .
Vitali never threw his best shot against Sanders and Lewis, when both were wobbly and their hands were down????????????? Wow, if that's true the guy is even worse then I thought . . . . .

we agree on the shooter theory. Whoever picked the team..is an idiot.

on the previous point..I'm astounded and can't even bring myself to argue with you on the 80's players. How can you say Magic,Bird and Jordan are not as good as the current players. I know you didn't mention Jordan by name, but if you say Magic and Bird, its the same thing. It's so absurd, I think your probably screwing with me and don't really mean it.


I guess Bob Gibson is not as good as Mark Mulder either?

Regardless they wouldn't dominate like they did in the 80s. The 80s might be too recent though, so let's make this easier. Do you actually think that Pete Maravich would be just as dominate now as he was back in 1970s?

No Mulder sucks, we are talking about elite athletes here. Randy Johnson is better than Bob Gibson.

I didn’t say that all you need is defense and teamwork to win. However, they are the essential elements to succeeding. And you really think high school players can play defense or have teamwork? Yes, to a certain point, but they lack knowledge and experience. So athleticism can overcome inexperience. But once you enter the pros, athleticism can only get you so far.

What does recruiting have to do with anything? Dominant college teams dominate because the players are well coach, because of pure athleticism. College is where players learn teamwork, the fundamentals, and how to play defense. Why do you think players today are so selfish and lack defensive skills? Because they forego college.

As for the US squad, yes, I do realize that the reason they lost is because they lacked shooting. But I thought you said “basketball revolves around quickness and jumping ability”. If this were true, why didn’t the US win, since they were ten times as athletically gifted as the other teams? And why couldn’t the US team make a 3 or jump shot? Because NBA is obsessed with dunking and slashing into the lanes. They prefer flash over a mid-range jump shot. If anything, this “evolution” of basketball has deteriorated the game.

I still don’t understand why you don’t think Byrd could compete. He was the complete package: possibly the purest shooter of all-time, could board, could defend, was clutch, and understood the game better than anyone else. Simply because he wasn’t as quick or couldn’t jump too high, he would be crap? How do you explain Tim Duncan, who isn’t too athletic or dunk crazy? It’s because he’s unselfish, can play defense, and has a better grasp of fundamentals than anyone else in the league.

As for punching power, size isn’t the sole determining factor. Jess Willard towered over Jack Dempsey and Primo Carnera over Joe Louis/Max Baer, yet their power was dwarved by the much smaller men. Yes, size can determine power, but it’s not the deciding factor.

Apparently you haven't seen too much elite high school ball. High School is not this huge waste of time that you make it out to be. Many former college coaches coach high school. My high school coach was a former head coach at Loyola Marymount and assistant coach at Villanova. Players learn all of those stuff, ie fundamentals, teamwork, and defense in high school or even earlier. The best schools like St. Anthony's have extremely athletic athletes and superb coaching where they play excellent defense and have great teamwork.

The NBA is played like it is because the rules are geared toward it, and that's what the random idiot wants to see instead of good basketball.

I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree about Bird and punching power, but no one said Bird would be garbage, he just wouldn't dominate the league like he did. Duncan is the complete package because he has excellent fundamentals and he also has the quickness and jumping ability of modern athletes.

'Modern-day power??' what are you 10 years old??? Just b/c Klitschko lifts some weights (and judging by his physique it doesn't look like he does much of that) he now has power that the old timers didn't possess??? Punching power has nothing to do with how much you can bench-press, but I suppose you wouldn't know much about that. Someone who doesn't twist their hips and turns their feet properly, like Klitschko, will never be a one-punch KO artist, b/c he is limiting the torque his body will possess for each punch. Klit's punching technique plain sucks. The guy throws a nice straight right hand and that's it. His jab sucks (he pushes out his jab, no stepping into it, no snap, no twist of the glove etc.), his left hook sucks. And those are the 3 punches he throws right there . . .
Vitali never threw his best shot against Sanders and Lewis, when both were wobbly and their hands were down????????????? Wow, if that's true the guy is even worse then I thought . . . . .

You obviously haven't seen many Klitschko fights. I tend to think that he may have even been on the juice pre Byrd, and that that may have played some factor in him getting hurt.

Juice: http://www.klitschko.com/gallery/index.php?lang=en&task=image&dir=fights/Vitaliy/26_Ed_Mahon&file=26_Ed_Mahon_062.jpg
No Juice: http://www.klitschko.com/gallery/index.php?lang=en&task=image&dir=fights/Vitaliy/36_Corrie_Sanders&file=scena0058.jpg

I find it funny when people try to use the evalution of other sports as a way of trying to prove that today's boxers are better.

Here's something to factor in;

These other sports have only been around for about one hundred years, whereas boxing has been around for a couple of thousand years ( got it's start in the ancient Greek Olympics).

There's only so many ways to throw a punch, and they figured out all the punching techniques a long, long time ago.

I find it funny when people try to use the evalution of other sports as a way of trying to prove that today's boxers are better.

Here's something to factor in;

These other sports have only been around for about one hundred years, whereas boxing has been around for a couple of thousand years ( got it's start in the ancient Greek Olympics).

There's only so many ways to throw a punch, and they figured out all the punching techniques a long, long time ago.

If all that boxing was was just standing stationary throwing punches, then you might be right.

If all that boxing was was just standing stationary throwing punches, then you might be right.

I take it you've never seen any footage of the great lightweight from the early 1900's, Joe Gans.

I take it you've never seen any footage of the great lightweight from the early 1900's, Joe Gans.

One person does not = everyone. I've seen enough small, flat footed old timers to come to the realization that they wouldn't do much against a modern athlete.

One person does not = everyone. I've seen enough small, flat footed old timers to come to the realization that they wouldn't do much against a modern athlete.

And I've seen enough big and strong, yet unco-ordinated heavyweights, lose to men much smaller than them, which enables me to form my opinion that Vitali wouldn't stand a chance against a number of heavyweights from years past, no matter how much bigger he is.

And I've seen enough big and strong, yet unco-ordinated heavyweights, lose to men much smaller than them, which enables me to form my opinion that Vitali wouldn't stand a chance against a number of heavyweights from years past, no matter how much bigger he is.

Stopping for an injury is what enables you to come to that opinion?

Stopping for an injury is what enables you to come to that opinion?

Huh?

I was talking about the likes of Jess Willard, Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer, etc., etc., who all lost to fighters that were much smaller, albeit a lot more talented than them.

And don't kid yourself, Vitali Klitschko is only slightly more talented than those guys, but wouldn't even come close to matching the heart that those others displayed in their fights.

Oh, and if Vitali goes into 'panic mode' when the infrequent attacks of Corrie Sanders were coming at him in the early rounds, what would he do when he's getting attacked for the full fifteen rounds by a fighter whose as aggressive and determined as was Joe Frazier?

Yeah, he would get tired, then careless, and end up getting stopped before the fight reaches the mid rounds.

Oh that's strange. I thought we were talking about modern day super heavyweights like Vitali Klitschko.

Oh that's strange. I thought we were talking about modern day super heavyweights like Vitali Klitschko.

Are these the same "modern day, super heavyweights" that a certain former cruiserweight champion was able to compete with on the level?

Oh that's strange. I thought we were talking about modern day super heavyweights like Vitali Klitschko.

And also, what's the difference in the talent level between Vitali and a Jess Willard or Primo Carnera?

In my opinion, not very much.

But you can humour me if you want, and break down the seperate skillsets of those fighters.

And also, what's the difference in the talent level between Vitali and a Jess Willard or Primo Carnera?

In my opinion, not very much.

But you can humour me if you want, and break down the seperate skillsets of those fighters.

Probably because they make Valuev look like Mayweather.

Oslo Kamsport Klubb.
Do you box activ?

Of course he can get on the inside b/c Frazier was one of the quickest and most skilled bobbers and weavers in history, and Vitali is a SLOW puncher. This isn't wrestling, once Frazier bobs his way in, Klitschko can do NOTHING, because the man has NO inside fighting game-no combinations, no short hooks, no uppercuts. So you're saying it'd be just like the Foreman fight, in which George, who had much faster hands then Klitschko, beat Frazier with uppercuts and short hooks, punches that Vitali doesn't even know how to throw. Yeah, real smart your analysis is. And who cares what Francis said? According to Tommy Morrison Joe Hipp was the hardest puncher he ever faced-this from a man who was put into another zone by Ray Mercer. Hae you even seen Francis-Klitschko and Francis-Tyson??? Tell me which fight Francis was hurt more in and get back to me you ignorant mutt. And of course you chose to ignore my examples of the Lewis and Sanders fights, which clearly exposed Vitali's punching power . . . .



....So what do you think Vitali is doing when Frazier is bobbing and weaving and trying to work his way inside? Do you think he is sitting there and letting him do it while knitting a sweater? Vitali drills him with big shots right in the beggining and makes him think twice. Then Frazier finally gets inside and Vitali pushes him back and puts him right on the end of his range and BAM. Smokin Joe just got smoked!! The Lewis and Sanders fights may have created a question about his power for some people. The fact is, he hurt Lewis early with that power and he didn't follow up like he should have in being overly catious. I would be willing to bet that if he had him hurt like that in a second fight he would take better advantage. Sanders took alot of punishment and I was surprised about that. However, in the end he was knocked out just like 96% of Vitali's other victims. He may not have the one punch power that some claim but his cumulative punches are enough for the highest knockout percentage out there. I would also be more willing to take the opinion of a guy who fought four boxers that he is comparing over a guy who just says "who cares what a professional boxer(who fought all four guys he is talking about) has to say about them?" The very same guy who would insist that he knows a hell of alot more than a pro while sitting in his boxers on the couch watching old fight films while scratcing himself.

Oslo Kamsport Klubb.
Do you box activ?

ja. bokset litt for dingo i stavanger. lett tungvekt. vurderer å være med litt denne sesongen og.

er lett tungvekt sjæl. skal ha kamp om 2-3 uker , husker ikke helt hehe.
Spørs om folk blir gretne pga norsken.

..hm. are you or have you been in the rankings?

Hm har ikke gått skikkelig enda, så trokke det. Og du?

jo.. har vel vært innom rankingene de siste ca fem årene.

not fair to compare VK with Frazier at this point. Let's see if he can accomplish something before we start talking about him against the greats. If prime Frazier fights this VK..it would be ugly....TIMBER!!!

I agree it is too early but as a comparisson at this moment in time Joe chops Vitali down to size. Joe could take a really good hit and i think his weaving would have confused Vitali and he would have landed one his his vicious hooks.

Frazier would destroy this bum. I pray to God that any of the retards in this thread who argued otherwise are banned.

frazier did extremely well against big guys, unlike what some people would say. george foreman is a hofer, and that is why he was demolished. frazier would make it a fairly easy night. frazier ko's klitchko in 5.

funny how all the klit haters jump in and go omfg KO in 2 secs!! they just refuse the fact that vitali has a great chin lmao they cant give the man any credit,


i hear bozo coming soon

frazier wers down and uds him knocks him out late

Why bring back a 1 year old thread :D

Would Vitaly beat Joe Fraizer in his prime?

Yes
i love smokin joe, but vitali is simply too big
foreman had trouble with big powerful guys like vitali
no doubt fraizer is the better boxer with the better legacy

Frazier was a tank, and Klitchko cant have hit as hard as Foreman, Frazier 5th round stoppage.

Why bring back a 1 year old thread

what is their to look forward to in reality?