View Full Version : UFC vs Boxing


2swell k-wells
10-09-2007, 03:31 AM
This is old but I had to post it here.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7jJgg3XHLhs"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7jJgg3XHLhs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

They both make some good points but I dont care who you are cause you will never win a arguement with Joe Rogan. And I wish they didnt get The Iceman to speak on behalf of ufc cause he sounds drunk again..lol.

HISTORY
10-09-2007, 03:59 AM
Houston Alexander or Quinton Jackson take out anyone in boxing in one round.

Kakutogi-Gumi
10-09-2007, 06:40 PM
Boxing.

UFC is a brand. Not a sport.

kaps
10-09-2007, 07:02 PM
Houston Alexander or Quinton Jackson take out anyone in boxing in one round.


In a MMA fight....

mrpain81
10-09-2007, 08:05 PM
Like Always Joe Rogan is right "Boxing is a dying sport" "You will never have a Future Superstars" Yup, Cotto cant a ticket and Pavlik will never sell...wait....Opps

HISTORY
10-09-2007, 08:38 PM
In a MMA fight....

No in an actual street fight. Houston has his boyz and he is the definition of street. He would knock out anyone in boxing.

mrpain81
10-09-2007, 08:58 PM
No in an actual street fight. Houston has his boyz and he is the definition of street. He would knock out anyone in boxing.

What kind of rules go in a street fight?I would pick floyd over houston for the fact floyd has like 5 bodyguards. Ussually the guy with the bigger gun wins a street fight.

2swell k-wells
10-09-2007, 11:11 PM
What kind of rules go in a street fight?I would pick floyd over houston for the fact floyd has like 5 bodyguards. Ussually the guy with the bigger gun wins a street fight.

Floyd Mayweather? To tell you the truth the guy's a punk/*****, He can box thats for damn sure but fight....all he would depend on is his hands. Chuck is right about a 135lbs mma guy can take him out, HELL I probably can.:canada:

mrpain81
10-10-2007, 12:51 AM
Floyd Mayweather? To tell you the truth the guy's a punk/*****, He can box thats for damn sure but fight....all he would depend on is his hands. Chuck is right about a 135lbs mma guy can take him out, HELL I probably can.:canada:

Yes but Like I said Floyd always has like 5 huge black dudes with him, So in a street fight, they would stop Houston. Streets have no rules.

2swell k-wells
10-10-2007, 12:58 AM
yea..true. Houston can probably take 1 of them bodygaurds but 5 of them there is no way in hell. But discussing who has the bigger gang sounds childish. Houston>boxer.

kaps
10-10-2007, 01:17 AM
In a boxing match an outweighed Mayweather would run circles around Houston. In MMA, no contest Mayweather gets ****ed up. In the street, well, that's just retarded.....

mrpain81
10-10-2007, 01:32 AM
yea..true. Houston can probably take 1 of them bodygaurds but 5 of them there is no way in hell. But discussing who has the bigger gang sounds childish. Houston>boxer.

I would take Wladamir Klitchko to knock out, Houston but thats Just me. By the way Houston was asked what was his primery fighting style on a radio show they asked "are you a striker"? He said "I consider myself a boxer" Look at the uppercuts he ko'd Jardine with.

By the way a Kickboxer Just got his ass kicked by a boxer in a K1 fight.

http://www.mediafire.com/?7zbppcvxtnx

kaps
10-10-2007, 01:56 AM
Former WBO HW champion fighting in k-1 I wonder how this goes?

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EXkcYul1LRo"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EXkcYul1LRo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

mrpain81
10-10-2007, 02:40 AM
Former WBO HW champion fighting in k-1 I wonder how this goes?

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EXkcYul1LRo"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EXkcYul1LRo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Come on now, Ray Mercer is like 45 in that fight. Remy Bonjasky is one of the baddest dudes in Kickboxing. Lets see Ernesto Hoost fight Wlad in a boxing match? Most the boxers that go into K1 are old has beens, But old hasbeen Botha managed to beat a couple of the Elite, Not bad for a guy that went into it after he couldent hack it at boxing.

HISTORY
10-10-2007, 03:01 AM
I would take Wladamir Klitchko to knock out, Houston but thats Just me. By the way Houston was asked what was his primery fighting style on a radio show they asked "are you a striker"? He said "I consider myself a boxer" Look at the uppercuts he ko'd Jardine with.

By the way a Kickboxer Just got his ass kicked by a boxer in a K1 fight.

http://www.mediafire.com/?7zbppcvxtnx

Mike Bernardo also knocked a bunch of guys out in K-1 and he sucked in boxing. But come on now. Houston be real. He mah ***** brother keepa lake. He would knock out that Russian commie with a muay thai clinch. He has more strikes then just punches.

mrpain81
10-10-2007, 04:39 AM
Mike Bernardo also knocked a bunch of guys out in K-1 and he sucked in boxing. But come on now. Houston be real. He mah ***** brother keepa lake. He would knock out that Russian commie with a muay thai clinch. He has more strikes then just punches.

Wlad outweigths him by like 40 pounds, and He would probably ko him with Jabs alone.

pugilistfanatic
10-10-2007, 02:19 PM
Houston Alexander and Rampage wouldnt knockout anyone in boxing in an MMA or boxing match.

I love MMA just as much as the next guy but these guys are extremely overrated. People think these guys are invisible. Marcus Davis, Chris Lytle, Alessio Sakara all were former PRO BOXERS. None of them were any good. However, Davis is on a 5 match winning streak, Lytle has fought current champion Matt Serra and Matt Hughes and went the DISTANCE in both fights. I dont care if Lytle was on his back the whole fight against Hughes, the fact he was even in the octagon with him despite being in MMA for less than a couple of years is incredible.

What about Josh Koscheck becoming a top contender as a one dimensional wrestler. Sure hes improved his standup but the bottom line is he started MMA in 2005 with no skills aside from being a top collegiate wrestler.

Forrest Griffin at the age of 20 was planning to be a firefighter. The guy has a limited fighting background and yet beat the "Immortal" from Chutebox academy Shogun Rua. What about Heath Herring almost winning a fight against Minotaruo Noguiera who in my opinion is the 2nd best Mixed Martial Artist in the world behind Fedor.

An MMA fighter would get embarassed in a boxing ring. A boxer would lose in MMA. The bottom line is neither of them are really an "actual fight." Some of the skills we see in MMA such as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu would be impractical in many "REAL LIFE" fighting situations. In fact, The Gracies themselves said so. Why? Because taking a person to the ground is not productive if your opponent has his compadres to stomp on you while on the ground AND the surface may be hazardous ie) rocks, cement etc... Not to mention that the Gracies in order to get the takedown freely admit that they have to strike with their opponent briefly which with a top level striker may be fatal considering boxers are the most accurate, powerful and fastest punchers in the world.

kaps
10-10-2007, 03:37 PM
Houston Alexander and Rampage wouldnt knockout anyone in boxing in an MMA or boxing match.

I love MMA just as much as the next guy but these guys are extremely overrated. People think these guys are invisible. Marcus Davis, Chris Lytle, Alessio Sakara all were former PRO BOXERS. None of them were any good. However, Davis is on a 5 match winning streak, Lytle has fought current champion Matt Serra and Matt Hughes and went the DISTANCE in both fights. I dont care if Lytle was on his back the whole fight against Hughes, the fact he was even in the octagon with him despite being in MMA for less than a couple of years is incredible.

What about Josh Koscheck becoming a top contender as a one dimensional wrestler. Sure hes improved his standup but the bottom line is he started MMA in 2005 with no skills aside from being a top collegiate wrestler.

Forrest Griffin at the age of 20 was planning to be a firefighter. The guy has a limited fighting background and yet beat the "Immortal" from Chutebox academy Shogun Rua. What about Heath Herring almost winning a fight against Minotaruo Noguiera who in my opinion is the 2nd best Mixed Martial Artist in the world behind Fedor.

An MMA fighter would get embarassed in a boxing ring. A boxer would lose in MMA. The bottom line is neither of them are really an "actual fight." Some of the skills we see in MMA such as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu would be impractical in many "REAL LIFE" fighting situations. In fact, The Gracies themselves said so. Why? Because taking a person to the ground is not productive if your opponent has his compadres to stomp on you while on the ground AND the surface may be hazardous ie) rocks, cement etc... Not to mention that the Gracies in order to get the takedown freely admit that they have to strike with their opponent briefly which with a top level striker may be fatal considering boxers are the most accurate, powerful and fastest punchers in the world.

I agree with most of this quote. Though I have to say most fights I've been in have ended up on the ground, and while I'm not looking for a choke or submission, raining punches from the mount is pretty ****ing productive....

pugilistfanatic
10-10-2007, 09:22 PM
I agree with most of this quote. Though I have to say most fights I've been in have ended up on the ground, and while I'm not looking for a choke or submission, raining punches from the mount is pretty ****ing productive....


Oh definitely. The mount position is really the most vulnerable fighting position you can think of. Ive had Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guys tell me that even a black belt would have a difficult time getting out of that position even against an average fighter.

And you're right, ive seen fights go on the ground, but ive also seen fights end standing. I think it really depends on the skill level of the opponent. I mean if an average Joe like myself with only a minimal fighting background were to trade with a prime Mike Tyson, id be picking my jaw off the floor. The fight would be over once I hit the ground because id be damn near dead.

HISTORY
10-10-2007, 09:37 PM
Houston Alexander and Rampage wouldnt knockout anyone in boxing in an MMA or boxing match.

I love MMA just as much as the next guy but these guys are extremely overrated. People think these guys are invisible. Marcus Davis, Chris Lytle, Alessio Sakara all were former PRO BOXERS. None of them were any good. However, Davis is on a 5 match winning streak, Lytle has fought current champion Matt Serra and Matt Hughes and went the DISTANCE in both fights. I dont care if Lytle was on his back the whole fight against Hughes, the fact he was even in the octagon with him despite being in MMA for less than a couple of years is incredible.

What about Josh Koscheck becoming a top contender as a one dimensional wrestler. Sure hes improved his standup but the bottom line is he started MMA in 2005 with no skills aside from being a top collegiate wrestler.

Forrest Griffin at the age of 20 was planning to be a firefighter. The guy has a limited fighting background and yet beat the "Immortal" from Chutebox academy Shogun Rua. What about Heath Herring almost winning a fight against Minotaruo Noguiera who in my opinion is the 2nd best Mixed Martial Artist in the world behind Fedor.

An MMA fighter would get embarassed in a boxing ring. A boxer would lose in MMA. The bottom line is neither of them are really an "actual fight." Some of the skills we see in MMA such as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu would be impractical in many "REAL LIFE" fighting situations. In fact, The Gracies themselves said so. Why? Because taking a person to the ground is not productive if your opponent has his compadres to stomp on you while on the ground AND the surface may be hazardous ie) rocks, cement etc... Not to mention that the Gracies in order to get the takedown freely admit that they have to strike with their opponent briefly which with a top level striker may be fatal considering boxers are the most accurate, powerful and fastest punchers in the world.

I thought Houston knocked out Alessio Sakara the world boxing champion yet you say he can't KO anyone?

Ironside
10-10-2007, 09:39 PM
Another stupid topic, always the same result, you can't compare two sports that are so different.

pugilistfanatic
10-11-2007, 12:35 AM
I thought Houston knocked out Alessio Sakara the world boxing champion yet you say he can't KO anyone?

You're right. He did beat Houston Alexander. But im talking about Alexander knocking out an elite boxer. Sakara was from it. In fact took up boxing at an older age. Sakara actually has some very good hands for MMA but leaves himself very wide open which is why he lost to McFedries despite controlling the fight.

Listen, I enjoy MMA and I enjoy the skills of a wrester, BJJ, etc... So im not trying to get into a huge debate over this. I just disagree with the notion that MMA fighters are unbeatable and that they are more skilled than boxers. I think an elite boxer is more skilled than your elite MMA fighter. In fact I dont even think its close.

Collegiate champion wrestler Josh Koscheck got outwrestled by GSP who has NO wrestling background. Dan Henderson is an OLYMPIAN GRECO ROMAN WRESTLER and yet was controlled by Rampage Jackson who has nothing MORE than 2 years of High school wrestling.

2swell k-wells
10-11-2007, 12:45 AM
I know boxers train to punch, bob n weeve...thats it. There is more skill involved in MMA so I dont know why you say it involves more skill thats just insane.

mrpain81
10-11-2007, 01:00 AM
I know boxers train to punch, bob n weeve...thats it. There is more skill involved in MMA so I dont know why you say it involves more skill thats just insane.

If it took more skill to be a MMA fighter then a boxer, Why wouldent MMA fighters become boxers and make more money? Dosent boxing having less skill make boxing easier to be good at? I guess Jardine would rather be a co-main event ppv headliner and make 14k.

Most elite boxers have more then 100 Amature fights, Delahoya had like 250 amature fights. Kostya Tszyu had almost 300. how many amature fights do elite mma guys have?

MMA is a new sport, most guys aint even well rounded.

2swell k-wells
10-11-2007, 02:38 AM
There is more skill involved then punching I meant, they have to learn more than ****ing box. 14k for jardine so what, boxers think money 1st fight 2nd and thats the truth. Whenever this boxing/mma debate goes on all I hear boxers make more which dont prove ****.

mrpain81
10-11-2007, 03:38 AM
There is more skill involved then punching I meant, they have to learn more than ****ing box. 14k for jardine so what, boxers think money 1st fight 2nd and thats the truth. Whenever this boxing/mma debate goes on all I hear boxers make more which dont prove ****.

More Money = Better Athletes = More skill

In the future MMA fighters will get more rounded, but for you to say its harder to be a Champion in MMA then in boxing is funny....U think MMA fighters, fight because the love of the sport? They fight for money, Like I said if boxing was so easy they would much rather get bigger pay checks then get paid crap.

pugilistfanatic
10-11-2007, 12:16 PM
I know boxers train to punch, bob n weeve...thats it. There is more skill involved in MMA so I dont know why you say it involves more skill thats just insane.

That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard. MMA fighters dont know how to punch, bob and weave etc. A boxer takes years to master his craft. Boxing incorporates ring generalship, power, speed, accuracy, bobs, weaves, parrying, endurance, toughness. Its a war of attrition. You think an MMA fighter has more skill than a boxer. You are sadly mistaken and need to do more research.

Tim Sylvia at the age of 20 was a nobody. He has a limited fighting background but Pat Miletich invited him to his MMA gym because I quote "Syvlia was Tall and big." Four years later this guys a champion.

Rich Franklin was a high school math teacher and got a degree in mathematics at University. It wasnt until his mid to late 20's that he decided to take up MMA. A couple of years later hes a UFC champion.

Forrest Griffin was training to be a firefighter at the age of 20. He got cut from his high school football team and has a very limited fighting background. Six years later hes beating a person who many thought was a top 5 fighter in the world in SHogun Rua.

Rampage Jackson has 2 years of high school wrestling on his resume and at the age of 20 decided to take up MMA.

Marcus Davis and Chris Lytle were low level pro boxers and got into MMA after getting their block knocked off. But a couple years later after making the transition to MMA they are "submitting" guys in the best MMA organization in the world in the UFC.

Want me to name more?

Floyd Mayweather, Roy Jones, Winky Wright, Ricky Hatton started boxing at an incredibly young age. In fact Jones Jr and Mayweather started at the age of 3-4. There are so many variables that go into being an elite boxer that people just simply do not understand.

Fernando Vargas trained Tito Ortiz in boxing in 2005. Vargas was shocked to hear that Ortiz had no idea what "cutting the ring off" was. This is stuff I learned 2 weeks into my boxing career.

Why dont we talk about how Liddell became UFC champion by having good takedown defense and 3rd rate boxing skills. This guy gets in the ring with Rampage, throws a wide, slow, telegraphed body punch, keeps his hands low and gets tagged in the head thus ending the fight. YEAH NICE TECHNIQUE.

pugilistfanatic
10-11-2007, 12:23 PM
If it took more skill to be a MMA fighter then a boxer, Why wouldent MMA fighters become boxers and make more money? Dosent boxing having less skill make boxing easier to be good at? I guess Jardine would rather be a co-main event ppv headliner and make 14k.

Most elite boxers have more then 100 Amature fights, Delahoya had like 250 amature fights. Kostya Tszyu had almost 300. how many amature fights do elite mma guys have?

MMA is a new sport, most guys aint even well rounded.

This is another good point. Many boxers have over 300 amatuer fights. Than they get over 40-50 pro fights. Alot of the elite boxers today had to win their first 25-30 fights before getting a title shot.

MMA guys im not kidding have a very limited amatuer background and only 10-15 pro fights.

There are some fighters on the TUF reality show that have never HAD A FIGHT.

FluugMacMan
10-11-2007, 01:15 PM
That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard. MMA fighters dont know how to punch, bob and weave etc. A boxer takes years to master his craft. Boxing incorporates ring generalship, power, speed, accuracy, bobs, weaves, parrying, endurance, toughness. Its a war of attrition. You think an MMA fighter has more skill than a boxer. You are sadly mistaken and need to do more research.
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (10th Edition)
Skill definition - a learned power of doing something competently.
Boxers' are able to definitely box competently. So they are skilled in that craft. Let's look at one MMA fighter, Randy Couture. Olympic Greco-Roman Wrestler, and 15 years of BJJ. Oh, it looks like he has one more skill then a boxer. He wins this competition. Let's Try Anderson Silva, with this fun competition. He's a pro boxer, Brazil's Muey Tai Champion, and a BJJ Black Belt. Looks like Anderson Silva wins as well; since he is skilled in 3 things, which is two more then that of a boxer.

This is a dumb game indeed, so stop making comparisons and saying people need to do research when you haven't even learn to open up a dictionary before you open your mouth.


Tim Sylvia at the age of 20 was a nobody. He has a limited fighting background but Pat Miletich invited him to his MMA gym because I quote "Syvlia was Tall and big." Four years later this guys a champion.
Tim Silva is a tall freak who can make the heavyweight limit for the UFC. Miletich's camp saw a very potentially awkward opponent to fight. Their basic idea is to give this awkward guy enough defensive training to make him even harder for the other heavyweights to take on. Just his build in general makes it extremely hard to deal with him when you're in his guard. You basically can't punch him in the head, and he can jab you at nearly full strength from the amount of distance he has due to his chest length and arm reach.


Rich Franklin was a high school math teacher and got a degree in mathematics at University. It wasnt until his mid to late 20's that he decided to take up MMA. A couple of years later hes a UFC champion.
Again, trains with miletich's camp for a while to learn sub defense and subs.



Forrest Griffin was training to be a firefighter at the age of 20. He got cut from his high school football team and has a very limited fighting background. Six years later hes beating a person who many thought was a top 5 fighter in the world in SHogun Rua.
Another one who trains with Randy Couture. I'm sure some of Randy's training rubbed off on Forest during the time he spent with him.


Rampage Jackson has 2 years of high school wrestling on his resume and at the age of 20 decided to take up MMA.
Another one who trained with an Olympian. Dan Henderson is freakin scary, and Rampage has trained with him for a while. Not to mention that rampage already has a retarded of strength on his resume.


Marcus Davis and Chris Lytle were low level pro boxers and got into MMA after getting their block knocked off. But a couple years later after making the transition to MMA they are "submitting" guys in the best MMA organization in the world in the UFC.
Yeah, training with BJJ Black belts will do that to you.


Floyd Mayweather, Roy Jones, Winky Wright, Ricky Hatton started boxing at an incredibly young age. In fact Jones Jr and Mayweather started at the age of 3-4. There are so many variables that go into being an elite boxer that people just simply do not understand.
How old is MMA now? 1993 was the first broadcast UFC to find which style is best. Now ones are blending different styles to create the complete fighter, and you're surprised that some Golden Boy didn't spring up instantly. Those are some realistic expectations you have.


Fernando Vargas trained Tito Ortiz in boxing in 2005. Vargas was shocked to hear that Ortiz had no idea what "cutting the ring off" was. This is stuff I learned 2 weeks into my boxing career.
You mean to tell me that you're surprised that Tito didn't know how to box? You do realize he was OUT BOXED by Liddell (Who is not a boxer).

Yawn....

msagrain
10-11-2007, 02:50 PM
good video.

pugilistfanatic
10-11-2007, 03:07 PM
I dont even know where to begin. Just because a person is more well-rounded doesnt mean hes more skilled. Randy Couture was an alternate on the olympic team. So he is an accomplished wrestler. However nowhere NEAR being at the top of his sport. There are hundreds if not thousands better than Couture at Greco Roman wrestling in the world. Secondly, I believe he has a purple belt in BJJ but I could be mistaken. So far from being a master at BJJ. And again I may be mistaken but Couture definitely has not been training BJJ for 15 years. He was an amatuer boxer in the army for 6 years, has a wrestling background and I believe took up BJJ in the late 90's early 00's.

BJ Penn, Jeff Joslin, Silva and many others acheived black belts in BJJ in a matter of a couple of years. In fact Penn got one in just over 2 years. How many boxers reached the pinnacle of their sport in 2 years? None that I know of. Secondly, alot of BJJ insitutions give out black belts fairly easily. If you want a true black belt you go to Brazilian Top Team and earn your belts from Murillo Bustamante.

So what if Griffin trained with Couture or that Rampage trained with Team Quest. Guys have trained and sparred with Jermain Taylor and recieved advice from great boxing minds like Emanuel Steward and Freddie Roach but they didnt knock off a champion boxer. The point is that these guys were nobodies in their late teens and early 20's and yet became very accomplished MMA fighters. Rampage outwrestled Dan Henderson who is an olympian greco roman wrestler. GSP did the same to Koscheck. Ricardo Arona had Rampage in a submission and Rampage used his brute strength and body slammed Arona thus ending the fight. The BJJ didnt help out much in that situation.

Rampage had no accomplished background in kickboxing and yet went to K-1 and destroyed Cyril Abidi who holds wins over some highly respectable K-1 fighters. Bob Sapp, former NFL lineman went to K-1 and beat Ernesto Hoost one of the best K-1 fighters of alltime. He won on brute strength. Put Sapp in a boxing ring and he loses to an average to below average boxer. Thats the bottom line.

Im not arguing that these guys arent skilled at what they do. My argument is that being a well rounded fighter does NOT take as much skill as being a Master at boxing. Not only that, I believe that boxing is the most difficult combat sport in the world. You can call it personal bias but I have competed in boxing, muay thai and I have a very limited background in BJJ. All very difficult sports, but boxing is alot more technical than any other combat sport not to mention that these guys go 12 rounds, taking punches from the best punchers in the world. Its a war of attrition, a blood, sweat and tears sport. BJJ is very technical as well but doesnt physically drain you like boxing does.

I respect all martial arts and I have a desire to take BJJ further. However, I get annoyed when people say that MMA fighters are more skilled than a pro boxer. You think Chris Leben is more skilled than Floyd Mayweather??? Thats essentially what you're saying.

pugilistfanatic
10-11-2007, 03:17 PM
Both sports will continue to exist. Both sports arent going anywhere. Boxing has had a great year and its proven that if the best guys fight in boxing, they get great numbers. There are numerous boxers with tremendous fanbases. Ricky Hatton, Kelly Pavlik, Miguel Cotto. All these boxers are under the age of 28. In fact Pavlik is only 24,25 I believe and could be huge in the midwest. He can sell out a venue by himself after the Taylor fight.

Secondly, I disagree with Rogan about boxing not being able to build new stars. I just mentioned 3 stars that are young and extremely marketable. And boxing has proven it can build its stars over 100s of years. MMA(UFC) hasnt. In fact, the biggest names in the sport among your casual fans are Liddell, Couture and Ortiz. 2 of these fighters are in their late 30's early 40s and Ortiz just sucks. Rampage is a big name now and is only 29 so he should be a fixture as a star in MMA as well as GSP. But the problem with the UFC is that alot of upsets occur and I think you need to have a few fighters go on long reigns as champion in order to build a permanent star in the sport.

kaps
10-11-2007, 03:57 PM
Not going to argue about this stupid ****ing subject but, Rampage wrestled in college too....

Blair_Wells#32
10-11-2007, 03:59 PM
Pugilistfanatic, ya bring up some pretty good points and defend boxing well compared 2 other boxing fans who come in here an start swearin an callin down mma, for that ya get alot of respect.
Comparing the payouts for boxing vs mma just ain't right,neither is sayin they came from this an are stand outs nowadays either, professional boxing has been around for how long? 100 or so years is the best guess i can make.
correct me if i'm wrong but when boxing started out they were makin peanuts for pay and had 2 work jobs on the side 2 make a living.
I also don't get why people say if a MMA fighter stepped in the ring against a boxer he'd get beat, thats a pretty obvious fact if he hasn't been training for boxing, same thing with boxer who steps into a MMA fight without proper MMA training he'd get killed.
well i'm out for now.
peace.

2swell k-wells
10-11-2007, 05:19 PM
wtf is this a ****ing mutany or what? Thought ya'll were ****ing mma fans:s ****ing traders..lol. Money dont equal more skill, their names bring in the money. Like how a bunch of idiots wanting to see oscar de la hoya fight mayweather and thought it was gonna be good but it turned out to be ****. MMA fighters fight whoever Silva puts in front of them, cause they will fight anybody, win or lose. Yea it takes skill to box, punch, defense etc etc but it also takes skill to learn a bunch of different arts of fighting and mastering it too. I didnt put on this vid to argue about the 2 sports, well at least I think I didnt. I said they both made some good points, but yeah I can defend MMA muh whole life, ima true fan unlike some peeps in here. It will grow, the fans are only gonna get larger, the fighters are gonna be more well known then u can kiss muh ass then.

pugilistfanatic
10-11-2007, 07:22 PM
Pugilistfanatic, ya bring up some pretty good points and defend boxing well compared 2 other boxing fans who come in here an start swearin an callin down mma, for that ya get alot of respect.
Comparing the payouts for boxing vs mma just ain't right,neither is sayin they came from this an are stand outs nowadays either, professional boxing has been around for how long? 100 or so years is the best guess i can make.
correct me if i'm wrong but when boxing started out they were makin peanuts for pay and had 2 work jobs on the side 2 make a living.
I also don't get why people say if a MMA fighter stepped in the ring against a boxer he'd get beat, thats a pretty obvious fact if he hasn't been training for boxing, same thing with boxer who steps into a MMA fight without proper MMA training he'd get killed.
well i'm out for now.
peace.

I agree. Bringing money into the equation is not a viable argument.
Lets put it this way. Professional boxer Steve Molitor trains for HOURS each day just like most pro boxers. Same with MMA fighters. MMA fighters train in different disciplines while boxers train exclusively on boxing. So really they BOTH put in their time. So one is obviously going to be better than the other in their respective sports like you said.

pugilistfanatic
10-11-2007, 07:30 PM
wtf is this a ****ing mutany or what? Thought ya'll were ****ing mma fans:s ****ing traders..lol. Money dont equal more skill, their names bring in the money. Like how a bunch of idiots wanting to see oscar de la hoya fight mayweather and thought it was gonna be good but it turned out to be ****. MMA fighters fight whoever Silva puts in front of them, cause they will fight anybody, win or lose. Yea it takes skill to box, punch, defense etc etc but it also takes skill to learn a bunch of different arts of fighting and mastering it too. I didnt put on this vid to argue about the 2 sports, well at least I think I didnt. I said they both made some good points, but yeah I can defend MMA muh whole life, ima true fan unlike some peeps in here. It will grow, the fans are only gonna get larger, the fighters are gonna be more well known then u can kiss muh ass then.

UFC fighters fight whoever not by choice but because if they dont their ass will be fighting on King of the Cage cards instead of the biggest organization in the world. UFC is where people want to be. So its not surprising that they dont bite the hand that feeds them.

But fighters are handpicked and protected in UFC. Dana White wanted his boytoy Liddell to beat Jardine to setup a Wanderlei fight. White wanted Crocop to beat Gonzaga to setup a Couture fight. White wanted Franklin to fight Silva so he put Franklin in with a bunch of tomato cans to boost his confidence. White wants to buildup Huerta so he puts him in with a bunch of one dimensional no-name scrappers.

Do MMA fighters care about money? You might say they dont. But Randy Couture just quit the UFC primarily because of money. He felt disrespected and was upset at UFC's inability to attract Fedor. At the end of the day, athletes want to get paid and they want to get paid fairly. Doesnt matter if its boxing or MMA or football.

And lastly, you're right. It takes dedication to learn various disciplines. Another point people underestimate is the fact that its difficult to transition all those skills into MMA. The best in MMA are able to do it effectively.

FightNight 2007
10-11-2007, 07:58 PM
Pugilisticfanatic....check boxrec, there are more cans in boxing than in MMA....case closed, now plz head back to NSB.

pugilistfanatic
10-11-2007, 09:27 PM
Pugilisticfanatic....check boxrec, there are more cans in boxing than in MMA....case closed, now plz head back to NSB.


I dont even get your point. When did I even say there were more cans in boxing than in MMA. There are cans in both sports. But id have to say from personal opinion that there are more cans in MMA than in boxing. Because ive trained with quite a few highly accomplished amatuer boxers and they went off to have mediocre pro careers. In MMA, you look at the fighters in all the smaller pro organizations and some of these guys are horrible and have very limited if any background in fighting. Anyway, this is not for debate. Im not going to debate this with you because its a stupid debate.

chosen0309
10-11-2007, 11:32 PM
I like both...I win!

2swell k-wells
10-12-2007, 01:44 AM
I dont even get your point. When did I even say there were more cans in boxing than in MMA. There are cans in both sports. But id have to say from personal opinion that there are more cans in MMA than in boxing. Because ive trained with quite a few highly accomplished amatuer boxers and they went off to have mediocre pro careers. In MMA, you look at the fighters in all the smaller pro organizations and some of these guys are horrible and have very limited if any background in fighting. Anyway, this is not for debate. Im not going to debate this with you because its a stupid debate.

You trained with cans.

Azteca
10-12-2007, 02:36 AM
Boxing is a classic sport...MMA (at least the UFC and how they market it) is thuggish and primitive.

In MMA you can train for 4-5 years and be the best at what you do. You try that in boxing, you get your ass beat. The closest world class guy that started boxing late was Cintron. I think he started when he was 19. He is not world level and has been exposed by Antonio Margarito. He is a big puncher but in boxing a big punch really means nothing unless you can find the openings and hit your opponent more then once.

Let's just face the facts boys...I love MMA like the next man but the majority of fighters are not masters at any discipline. There are a few names like BJ Penn, Dan Henderson etc. but a lot of these guys are just collegiate or high school wrestlers. MMA is for toughman, these guys are strong and athletic but they havent perfected a craft yet...it takes little skill compared to boxing. Main reason why I think so is because the sport is so young. Give it 10 years and I will probably be singing a different tune.

FluugMacMan
10-12-2007, 02:56 AM
I dont even get your point. When did I even say there were more cans in boxing than in MMA. There are cans in both sports. But id have to say from personal opinion that there are more cans in MMA than in boxing. Because ive trained with quite a few highly accomplished amatuer boxers and they went off to have mediocre pro careers. In MMA, you look at the fighters in all the smaller pro organizations and some of these guys are horrible and have very limited if any background in fighting. Anyway, this is not for debate. Im not going to debate this with you because its a stupid debate.

His point is,... check boxrec. The sheer volume of cans on record in there, dwarfs any argument that MMA has more cans then boxing. In fact, proportionally speaking, the can to mediocre boxer ratio still dwarfs MMA.

Azteca
10-12-2007, 03:08 AM
His point is,... check boxrec. The sheer volume of cans on record in there, dwarfs any argument that MMA has more cans then boxing. In fact, proportionally speaking, the can to mediocre boxer ratio still dwarfs MMA.

Lol you arent seriously going to say that an expect us to give a rats ass??

Does that really mean anything?
And does MMA have a database like boxrec?

kaps
10-12-2007, 03:09 AM
I like both...I win!

Dats what I'm talkin bout!

mrpain81
10-12-2007, 03:16 AM
Boxing is a classic sport...MMA (at least the UFC and how they market it) is thuggish and primitive.

In MMA you can train for 4-5 years and be the best at what you do. You try that in boxing, you get your ass beat. The closest world class guy that started boxing late was Cintron. I think he started when he was 19. He is not world level and has been exposed by Antonio Margarito. He is a big puncher but in boxing a big punch really means nothing unless you can find the openings and hit your opponent more then once.

Let's just face the facts boys...I love MMA like the next man but the majority of fighters are not masters at any discipline. There are a few names like BJ Penn, Dan Henderson etc. but a lot of these guys are just collegiate or high school wrestlers. MMA is for toughman, these guys are strong and athletic but they havent perfected a craft yet...it takes little skill compared to boxing. Main reason why I think so is because the sport is so young. Give it 10 years and I will probably be singing a different tune.


^^^^^^^Yes!!

FluugMacMan
10-12-2007, 03:21 AM
I dont even know where to begin. Just because a person is more well-rounded doesnt mean hes more skilled. Randy Couture was an alternate on the olympic team. So he is an accomplished wrestler. However nowhere NEAR being at the top of his sport. There are hundreds if not thousands better than Couture at Greco Roman wrestling in the world. Secondly, I believe he has a purple belt in BJJ but I could be mistaken. So far from being a master at BJJ. And again I may be mistaken but Couture definitely has not been training BJJ for 15 years. He was an amatuer boxer in the army for 6 years, has a wrestling background and I believe took up BJJ in the late 90's early 00's.

BJ Penn, Jeff Joslin, Silva and many others acheived black belts in BJJ in a matter of a couple of years. In fact Penn got one in just over 2 years. How many boxers reached the pinnacle of their sport in 2 years? None that I know of. Secondly, alot of BJJ insitutions give out black belts fairly easily. If you want a true black belt you go to Brazilian Top Team and earn your belts from Murillo Bustamante.

So what if Griffin trained with Couture or that Rampage trained with Team Quest. Guys have trained and sparred with Jermain Taylor and recieved advice from great boxing minds like Emanuel Steward and Freddie Roach but they didnt knock off a champion boxer. The point is that these guys were nobodies in their late teens and early 20's and yet became very accomplished MMA fighters. Rampage outwrestled Dan Henderson who is an olympian greco roman wrestler. GSP did the same to Koscheck. Ricardo Arona had Rampage in a submission and Rampage used his brute strength and body slammed Arona thus ending the fight. The BJJ didnt help out much in that situation.

Rampage had no accomplished background in kickboxing and yet went to K-1 and destroyed Cyril Abidi who holds wins over some highly respectable K-1 fighters. Bob Sapp, former NFL lineman went to K-1 and beat Ernesto Hoost one of the best K-1 fighters of alltime. He won on brute strength. Put Sapp in a boxing ring and he loses to an average to below average boxer. Thats the bottom line.

Im not arguing that these guys arent skilled at what they do. My argument is that being a well rounded fighter does NOT take as much skill as being a Master at boxing. Not only that, I believe that boxing is the most difficult combat sport in the world. You can call it personal bias but I have competed in boxing, muay thai and I have a very limited background in BJJ. All very difficult sports, but boxing is alot more technical than any other combat sport not to mention that these guys go 12 rounds, taking punches from the best punchers in the world. Its a war of attrition, a blood, sweat and tears sport. BJJ is very technical as well but doesnt physically drain you like boxing does.

I respect all martial arts and I have a desire to take BJJ further. However, I get annoyed when people say that MMA fighters are more skilled than a pro boxer. You think Chris Leben is more skilled than Floyd Mayweather??? Thats essentially what you're saying.
I'll make this easy for you, read the definition of skilled. If that's not what you're describing, then don't use it. Because you are getting "skilled" mixed up with "masters of their craft", figure out which word you want to make your argument off of. Cause if you want to talk about "masters of their craft" then this argument is completely pointless from the start, because the answer is so obvious. If you only do one limited form of fighting your entire life, then you're obviously are going to be better at it then a person who has to learn all sorts of different fighting styles, that's just common sense.

In regards to Randy and the 15 years of BJJ, I'll have to find the video clip again. It was when he was talking about his fun time in one of the BJJ tournaments where he ended up coming to a draw with someone.

BTW, Ricardo Arona was not knocked out by Rampage's slam. Arona reached back during the slam and ended up having his head bounce off the mat and straight into Rampage's head. Thus he was knocked out cold by Rampage's head, not the initial slam.
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/8270/quintonbombog1.gif

FluugMacMan
10-12-2007, 03:26 AM
Lol you arent seriously going to say that an expect us to give a rats ass??

Does that really mean anything?
And does MMA have a database like boxrec?

You're right. No one cares about cans. This is a retarded aspect to talk about a sports legitimacy.

BTW, Sherdog's Fight Finder is a pretty decent database, and there are a few other sites that have a pretty good size databases as well.

pugilistfanatic
10-12-2007, 12:02 PM
I'll make this easy for you, read the definition of skilled. If that's not what you're describing, then don't use it. Because you are getting "skilled" mixed up with "masters of their craft", figure out which word you want to make your argument off of. Cause if you want to talk about "masters of their craft" then this argument is completely pointless from the start, because the answer is so obvious. If you only do one limited form of fighting your entire life, then you're obviously are going to be better at it then a person who has to learn all sorts of different fighting styles, that's just common sense.

In regards to Randy and the 15 years of BJJ, I'll have to find the video clip again. It was when he was talking about his fun time in one of the BJJ tournaments where he ended up coming to a draw with someone.

BTW, Ricardo Arona was not knocked out by Rampage's slam. Arona reached back during the slam and ended up having his head bounce off the mat and straight into Rampage's head. Thus he was knocked out cold by Rampage's head, not the initial slam.
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/8270/quintonbombog1.gif

I agree somewhat with what you're saying. But would Sherk have been an Olympian wrestler coming out of high school. Hell, Kermit Cintron has a better wrestling background than Sean Sherk. Now Sherk is a UFC welterweight champion. Would Stephen Bonnar have become a middleweight champion boxer following his amateur career? NOPE.

I respect their ability to transition various martial arts into a fight. However, some of these guys including SOME of the best have accomplished very little in specialized combat sport disciplines. Simply because these guys werent good enough. Rampage wrestled in high school and than in junior college. He was simply a mediocre wrestler and yet beat and arguably controlled Dan Henderson at Hendersons own game. Rampage flat out outwrestled him. GSP did the same thing to Koscheck.

Whatever though, both sports are awesome in their own way and ill continue to enjoy both.

2swell k-wells
10-12-2007, 01:23 PM
****....im drunk..................thats it.....

FluugMacMan
10-12-2007, 05:42 PM
I agree somewhat with what you're saying. But would Sherk have been an Olympian wrestler coming out of high school. Hell, Kermit Cintron has a better wrestling background than Sean Sherk. Now Sherk is a UFC welterweight champion. Would Stephen Bonnar have become a middleweight champion boxer following his amateur career? NOPE.

I respect their ability to transition various martial arts into a fight. However, some of these guys including SOME of the best have accomplished very little in specialized combat sport disciplines.
True to some respect. However, the beauty of MMA is when you lack in other departments, you can level out your problems by excelling in other areas. Look at Sean Sherk for example. Sherk doesn't have amazing wrestling credentials, but he has the fastest shot I've seen in a long long while. Not only that, but his BJJ is around brown to black belt status. And he has a iron head. Though his lack of wrestling credentials makes him look weak, when you look at the area his skills are specialized in, he's actually quite dominate in MMA.

Simply because these guys werent good enough. Rampage wrestled in high school and than in junior college. He was simply a mediocre wrestler and yet beat and arguably controlled Dan Henderson at Hendersons own game. Rampage flat out outwrestled him. Again, credentials don't mean that much. The biggest way to measure a fighter is who he trains with. Rampage trained with Henderson, so it's no real surprise that he was able to get the better of Henderson during some points in the fight. You take the constant training and combine that with Rampage's ridiculous strength, then you have a the possibility of the fight turning out the way it did.

Besides, Rampage may not have the credentials, but he sure outwrestled Matt Lindland when they fought. In fact, Rampage dominated him.


GSP did the same thing to Koscheck.
GSP also outwrestled Sherk. GSP may not have the credentials, but he wrestles constantly with the Canadian Olympic team. And wrestling against that kind of competition definitely made him better then the guys with credentials.


Whatever though, both sports are awesome in their own way and ill continue to enjoy both.

Yep same here. Nothing relaxes me more then watching some boxing, it gives me something to analysis.