im sick of tired when it comes to ppl talking about great middleweights...everybody says ray robinson could beat everybody..first off dont disrespect to ray rob..but truth be known ppl from that era werent half as good as they are today..a average fighter of today like william joppy would give ray robinson hell...ray rob never fought anybody with speed and power combined like fighters of today..and dont give me that "basillo" "graziano" bull either or ill hack ur pc

im sick of tired when it comes to ppl talking about great middleweights...everybody says ray robinson could beat everybody..first off dont disrespect to ray rob..but truth be known ppl from that era werent half as good as they are today..a average fighter of today like william joppy would give ray robinson hell...ray rob never fought anybody with speed and power combined like fighters of today..and dont give me that "basillo" "graziano" bull either or ill hack ur pc



Fullmer would own majority of the middleweights today....


I feel Robinson showed his best at welterweight though...Middleweight was his adopted division and lingered their his whole career...Although the fact that he would have beat the light heavyweight champ in a 15 round fight is spectacular (Ray was winning until he collapsed from the 104 degree temperature) Mind you ray weighed in under 160, I believe it was around 157 and joey maxim weighed in at 173 is amazing...

I can say ray wasnt great in the middleweight division, Sugar Ray was great in whatever division he fought in....Easily the best fighter of all time....


Ray Robinson would Maul Bernard Hopkins and any other middleweight today....

I could see Hagler giving robinson trouble, but noone beats ray in his prime....

Hands down no questions, You cant dispute that.

In my opinion fighters of today are overall better that fighters of the past. New boxing training routines with an overall boxing evolution is the reason. But that's my opinion only.

In my opinion fighters of today are overall better that fighters of the past. New boxing training routines with an overall boxing evolution is the reason. But that's my opinion only.


I agree with that and I dont, Some of the training techniques of the past seem way harder to make the fighter more tough then today, While the training may be better I just dont see some of todays "greats" beatings yesterdays.....

I dont think anyone in the heavyweight division today could beat, Ali

Noone in the middleweight division would beat, Ray robinson

Noone in welterweight today would defeat, Ray Leonard

and so on....I just dont see it....These guys were natural born boxers.

Well you can not say that fighters of the past would be invincible against today's champions.( I dont mean hw) Just think about. You judge fighters abilities from the way he fought his opponents.But think how today fighters would fight against the same opposition.
Man I would love to watch Floyd fight Leonard

Well you can not say that fighters of the past would be invincible against today's champions.( I dont mean hw) Just think about. You judge fighters abilities from the way he fought his opponents.But think how today fighters would fight against the same opposition.
Man I would love to watch Floyd fight Leonard


True and I am not saying that at all, I just feel the "GREATEST" boxers of the past would probably defeat the ones today in their respective divisions.....Especially pull a guy from the 30s-60s and he will probably maul a new age boxer......


Floyd vs Leonard would be a Dance Contest....


However floyd and ray are some of my favorite fighters, it would be a very cautious fight. I think....It also depends on the weight....Ray might be to much for him.

Acquitted quit with this **** already it ain't April and you ain't foolin anybody.

"Joppy would give Ray hell"...that's just way too funny so I'll disregard it.

No doubt that Ray wasn't the greatest at 160 but he would smoke every middle today outside of Hopkins (who would give him a very tough fight)

Hagler would stop Ray at middle IMO.

Floyd would beat Leonard...
Leonard's defense/offense < Floyd's defense/offense

I meant at 147. If Floyd can make it to Welters and not lose his abilities.

Jack-You really think floyd would punish ray?

I cant see that, Ray was a big man for the divisions he fought in and Floyd is a pretty small guy....I dunno, It is a tough decision but im hard headed and will give Leonard tons of credit for nothing but I just cant see it....

OldGringo-Hagler is the only fighter in the past 30 years at middleweight that would have a glim of a chance defeating Ray Robinson....Ray and hagler in their primes *ouch* that would be another death in the ring.

I meant at 147. If Floyd can make it to Welters and not lose his abilities.



Floyd at welter is scary, that is to big of a weightclass for him...Lets see him at 140 more and see how he fairs against them first.....

Jack-You really think floyd would punish ray?

I cant see that, Ray was a big man for the divisions he fought in and Floyd is a pretty small guy....I dunno, It is a tough decision but im hard headed and will give Leonard tons of credit for nothing but I just cant see it....

OldGringo-Hagler is the only fighter in the past 30 years at middleweight that would have a glim of a chance defeating Ray Robinson....Ray and hagler in their primes *ouch* that would be another death in the ring.

Hagler was too much of a ****ing machine for Ray to hurt him. I honestly can never recall anyone hurting him. I think it'd be a great fight while it lasted...maybe it'd go 11-13 rounds and Hagler would stop it. I think Monzon would have beat Ray too as he had an awkward style, great boxing skills, and he was strong as an ox.

The only Hagler fight I seen was him vs. Hearns. But I got a quick question, did any of his opponents try to effectivly go to his body, because from what I see and heard the guy had a pretty hard chin.

This thread is a JOKE! How old is this ass clown anyhow? Nine?Robinson wasn't "that good" at middle? You're right. He was ****ING incredible! He only won the middleweight title 5 times! Starting with Lamotta whom he owned 3 time previous to that. Knocked out Graziano in 3 rounds, Turpin in 9, Bobo Olsen twice, Gene Fullmer, blew Basilio's eye up so bad in the rematch he couldn't see for 2 weeks...not to mention was whipping the lightheavyweight champs ass for 12 rounds until he fell out with heat exhaustion. Did I mention he did all this beginning with his 121st fight!!!

What is up with these dumb-ass threads???

:cool: this guy above speack the truth...

This thread is a JOKE! How old is this ass clown anyhow? Nine?Robinson wasn't "that good" at middle? You're right. He was ****ING incredible! He only won the middleweight title 5 times! Starting with Lamotta whom he owned 3 time previous to that. Knocked out Graziano in 3 rounds, Turpin in 9, Bobo Olsen twice, Gene Fullmer, blew Basilio's eye up so bad in the rematch he couldn't see for 2 weeks...not to mention was whipping the lightheavyweight champs ass for 12 rounds until he fell out with heat exhaustion. Did I mention he did all this beginning with his 121st fight!!!

What is up with these dumb-ass threads???



Make it more credible, Ray banged for 13 rounds and collapsed at his stool due to heat not a beating....Ray was up on all scorecards....


Sugar Ray is "THE" god in boxing...

People are right in saying that today's training coupled with the natural evolution of boxing makes today's fighters better than the past. This is just true no matter how you look at it.

When people talk fantasy matchups and all-time p4p lists you have to look at that fighter's accomplishments vs the fighters of his era. He cannot be punished for the lack of training, nutrition and scouting information that boxers have access to today.

What people mean when they say "Robinson vs Hopkins" and things like that would be if they fought in the same era, who would win? Of course with today's advancements in health and nutrition the old boxers are at a disadvantage but what people are saying is that if Robinson fought today with all of the same advantages as today's fighters, he would still be the best. This makes complete sense.

Rocky Marciano fought at 185 lbs. By today's standards in the heavyweight division he'd be too small, but had he grown up in today's world with our current technology he would probably weigh 210-220. It's all relative. He'd be the same wrecking machine that he was then but just bigger and stronger and healthier and armed with better knowledge. He'd still go undefeated.

You have to judge fighters by their performance in their era. When doing this, Ray Robinson was magic no matter how you look at it, likely the best p4p that ever lived.

One thing I can say about past fighters is their passion for the sport, no one today comes close. I always like to say, Ray Robinson was Roy Jones but with heart and Rocky Marciano was Mike Tyson but with heart. Roy & Mike folded once the going got tough, Rocky & Ray never would.

Make it more credible, Ray banged for 13 rounds and collapsed at his stool due to heat not a beating....Ray was up on all scorecards....


Sugar Ray is "THE" god in boxing...

So what does that make Mike Tyson?

So what does that make Mike Tyson?


When talking about Ray Robinson...Mike who?

Ray at middleweight wasn't too consistent, however, who could be consistent when they're past their prime fighting all-time greats numerous times. Still, i think only a handful of middleweights could've beaten the best 160 pound version of Robinson. Yeah, some say he wasn't in his prime at 160, but a past his prime Robinson was still one of the best fighters i've ever seen, if not the best.

As for this "old time fighters are better than today's" and vice verca, though i do tend to lean towards the earlier fighters since they proved a lot more in much more difficult circumstances, it doesn't necessarily mean none of today's fighters could compete with them. I've always thought that styles make fights. Simply because one fighter has "better" boxing skill doesn't mean he's a better fighter.

Did Frazier have better boxing ability than Ali? Did Ricardo Mayorga have better boxing ability than Forrest? Styles make fights.

And who's to say that today's boxers have more skill and boxing has evolved. Fighters such as Eder Jofre, Ezzard Charles, Billy Conn and numerous others' technique were as fine and correct as anyone today, if not moreso.

I think Chris Byrd can pull a UD from Marciano to tell you the truth..

People keep talking about 'advanced training techniques' and physical evolution, both points which are total BS. People are not faster and stronger today then they were 50 years ago-biological evolution DOES NOT work NEARLY that fast. 2ndly, boxers use the same training techniques today as they did 50 years ago, cept the WIDE MAJORITY of boxers 50 years ago were more dedicated and discplined, and went through tougher training regimens. You had to to have any success when you were fighting in such a deeper pool of boxers and talent then you do today, plus the fact that fighters fought over twice as much, and experience in the ring will teach you a hell of a lot more then some Tai Bo trainer giving you his 'scientific' regimen does. The only noticiaeble difference is with weight training and yeah doing the power lifting really helped Tyson, Mosley, and Toney when they started messing with that crap b/c they wanted to look 'big' and they end up looking like crap when their arms get heavy after 3 rounds. If training was more advanced today, how come guys like Fullmer could fight in a fast-paced all action bout for 12 and 15 rounds!!! Middleweights and higher today cept Hopkins get tired after 8 rounds. Fullmer or Robinson would have a huge edge on today's fighters just on stamina/durability alone, let alone boxing skill and experience. Some people may not like it but the era you are watching right now for the most part is inferior to the past generations. This is a declining sport. I'll always love it but you have to face the facts. For example I was watching Baer-Schmeling today and they mentioned that the governers of 6 states were in attendence. Nowadays at a big fight, could you imagine any major politicians to even associate themselves with prizefighting????

Robinson not great?? Take that crap somewhere else . . . .

dempseyfire, i concur. Fighters today can barely go 10, let alone 15 fast paced rounds.

Everytime I think that fighters of today are better then fighters of the past, I watch a fight that went 15 hard rounds. Today fighters claim to be in better shape, but cant fight a hard fought for more then ten rounds if even that long. Back in the good ole days, there were only a few weight classes, the rules were pretty loose when compared with today and most of the great fighters fought several times a year...even several times a month.

How can fighters today be better when they get winded after 7 rounds and cant fight more then 2 times a year. Some top fighters average one fight per year. Back in the day fighters came in the ring banged up, injured and for peantuts when compared to today's pay.

Ray Robinson is not only considered one of the greatest fighters in the game, most consider him the greatest fighter ever.

Ray Robinson is the greatest fighter of all time. That, I will never argue with. But, his greatness, overall, does not translate to invincibilty at 160.
IMO....Hagler, Hopkins, & Monzon were all better 160lbers than he..& would probably have defeated him at that weight. They'd have BARELY beaten him, though.

Ray's greatness starts with how invincible HE WAS at 147....then the excellent success he did enjoy at 160. He coulda been the 175lb champ, also.....
Though he did win the crown 5 times....he also lost to a # of guys at 160.
When he was winning & losing to these guys, he was past his best age & weight-wise.
Just shows how remarkable a fighter he was....& also that at 160 he isn't the Sugar Ray Robinson who's the most phenomenal fighter ever.

Jack...

Floyd Mayweather would beat Ray Leonard ?

Kid.....STOP.

Learn some more before you speak.

Leonard would have destroyed Floyd.

Ray was everything Floyd is, boxing skill-wise....but was also a much better puncher & much bigger, physically.

Floyd has yet to prove he can handle 140 (though I think he'll be successful)....so how can h hang with the most complete 147-154 lber since Sugar Ray Robinson ?

C'mon !

im sick of tired when it comes to ppl talking about great middleweights...everybody says ray robinson could beat everybody..first off dont disrespect to ray rob..but truth be known ppl from that era werent half as good as they are today..a average fighter of today like william joppy would give ray robinson hell...ray rob never fought anybody with speed and power combined like fighters of today..and dont give me that "basillo" "graziano" bull either or ill hack ur pc

I've said it before so I'll say it again you really are full of **** acquitted

Ray Robinson is not the best at 160, only uneducated people that are easily influenced by others would say that.

Floyd would beat Leonard...
Leonard's defense/offense < Floyd's defense/offense

i was lmao when i read that lil floyd told leonard hed punish him not because its absurd or anything i just think it was FUNNY

hahahahahaha i reported the starter of this thread for his threat to hack our computer and his sheer ignorance ...little did i know the thread is 3 years old

hahahahhaha boy am i the ignorant one this time !

i just pwned my self!

A great fighter is a great fighter, regardless of when they fight and to categorize "today's fighters" as better trained due to advances or whatever is pure blind foolishness. Today's fighter are, by and large, spoilled athletes who don't possess the hunger required to fight and win on the toughest of levels with a few exceptions. Fighters of yesteryear often had to fight once a month or more often just to put food on the table....you don't think that's motivation? To say nothing of an impedence on their success because it wasn't very often they were in top shape. Imagine if yesteryear's fighters were as pampered and protected as today's network superstars....

It makes no difference when a fighter fought....the man wearing the gloves is the one winning the fights.