With so many Tyson threads mentioning his heart or lack of i thought id start this one.

This isnt an anti Tyson-thread either.



Did Tyson really show he had heart?
It takes courage for any fighter to step through the ropes. And it does indeed take heart and commitment to not quit when taking a beating.
But does heart mean being able to take punishment?
Or does heart when fighting mean something a little different. A boxer who shows heart must display a will to win; to not become disheartened too quickly.

Watching the 1st Ruddock fight, Tyson fought well and took some big shots throughout. But he also landed good shots from round 1. He knew he could KO Ruddock.
Against Douglas he also took big punches in every round. Yet he couldnt really land much on Douglas. Yet in this fight it wasnt about heart. Tyson just took a beating.
Against Tucker he had a bit of trouble early on, but kept fighting with advice from Rooney. Plus Tucker hurt his right hand and couldnt throw the uppercut anymore.
Against Holyfield he could land big shots, and like Douglas was getting hit consistently. IMO he grew discouraged very quickly. He couldnt match Holyfields will and desire.
Against Lewis he took a beating, but wanted to quit before he was eventually stopped.
Surley he could have got up against Danny Williams??

I think Tyson's confidence could be dented quite easily. When it looked like things werent going his way, he would become discouraged and his performance would lose enthusiasm.

With some fighters they fight back harder when they are hurt or behind. They find a way to win. They force their way back into a fight when it looks hopeless. They show real heart.
Tyson had heart but IMO could become disheartened a little too easily.

His style of fighting is the hardest if not the hardest style out there in boxing. You ever thought,he wanted to fight back really hard.but was tired?

The first Holyfield fight he hurt him,I forgot what round though but he did.Plus he was losing at that point.

When he fought Douglas wasnt he the guy that knocked Douglas down in the 8th round,when before he was getting a beat down from round 1?

Being tired as **** and still fighting on while getting a beating is heart to me. Those that actually havnt really sparred or fought wont understand fully.

He was looking for a way to win against Douglas he knocked im down in the 8th and if u watch in the 9th tyson hits him with the same uppercut but douglas falls onto tyson. He fought back after getting hit as seen in the Ruddock, Buno and Tucker fight. As for the Holyfield fight this wasnt mentally the same tyson as before, but that doesnt mean he didnt have heart, he hurt Holyfield in the 5th or 6th? but didnt follow up and these were only the most obvious instances. As for Danny Williams, i agree tyson could of got up but he had messed up his knee ligaments, also at that point tyson wasnt wanting to fight anymore, he should never have been in that ring.

With so many Tyson threads mentioning his heart or lack of i thought id start this one.

This isnt an anti Tyson-thread either.



Did Tyson really show he had heart?
It takes courage for any fighter to step through the ropes. And it does indeed take heart and commitment to not quit when taking a beating.
But does heart mean being able to take punishment?
Or does heart when fighting mean something a little different. A boxer who shows heart must display a will to win; to not become disheartened too quickly.

Watching the 1st Ruddock fight, Tyson fought well and took some big shots throughout. But he also landed good shots from round 1. He knew he could KO Ruddock.
Against Douglas he also took big punches in every round. Yet he couldnt really land much on Douglas. Yet in this fight it wasnt about heart. Tyson just took a beating.
Against Tucker he had a bit of trouble early on, but kept fighting with advice from Rooney. Plus Tucker hurt his right hand and couldnt throw the uppercut anymore.
Against Holyfield he could land big shots, and like Douglas was getting hit consistently. IMO he grew discouraged very quickly. He couldnt match Holyfields will and desire.
Against Lewis he took a beating, but wanted to quit before he was eventually stopped.
Surley he could have got up against Danny Williams??

I think Tyson's confidence could be dented quite easily. When it looked like things werent going his way, he would become discouraged and his performance would lose enthusiasm.

With some fighters they fight back harder when they are hurt or behind. They find a way to win. They force their way back into a fight when it looks hopeless. They show real heart.
Tyson had heart but IMO could become disheartened a little too easily.

Absolutely spot on with your assesment. He had heart yes, but like you said got discouraged easily when he could see the opponent wasn't intimidated. In the ruddock fight yes he showed more heart, but you could see that despite trading with Tyson, Ruddock looked intimidated you could see it in his eyes and the way he fought. Sometimes when frightened as with Ruddock fear can do funny things. Ruddock was fearful and although trading with Tyson, it was his fear that made him fight like that, it was if I don't knock him (Tyson) out I am gonna take a real beating. Douglas,Holyfield and Lewis never showed this because they weren't intimidated or frightened they believed they could win. Tyson in these fights never dug as deep as he could or should of, so in my opinion he had heart but not true heart like Holyfield or Lewis.

Good posts in this one and the other thread. But if you notice from Bobby's first post, it was right after prison that Tyson showed no real heart anymore. Tyson has said it a few times as well, that he was done in the early 90s. Unfortunately for Mike, heart is an important factor when greatness is measured(troughout most of your career, not in a 6 out of 20 years peroid). And since most people see him up there along the heavyweight greats, they compare Tyson's heart to a Louis, Ali, Holyfield etc, and they think Tyson had NO heart at all, wich is false but understandable.

I think Tyson showed heart at times, but near the end of his career, he just lost the desire to fight. It happens to every fighter eventually unless they don't fight up to that point.:fing02:

Absolutely spot on with your assesment. He had heart yes, but like you said got discouraged easily when he could see the opponent wasn't intimidated. In the ruddock fight yes he showed more heart, but you could see that despite trading with Tyson, Ruddock looked intimidated you could see it in his eyes and the way he fought. Sometimes when frightened as with Ruddock fear can do funny things. Ruddock was fearful and although trading with Tyson, it was his fear that made him fight like that, it was if I don't knock him (Tyson) out I am gonna take a real beating. Douglas,Holyfield and Lewis never showed this because they weren't intimidated or frightened they believed they could win. Tyson in these fights never dug as deep as he could or should of, so in my opinion he had heart but not true heart like Holyfield or Lewis.
I dont believe in the theory he could only beat a fighter that was scared.
He destroyed all his early opponents before he was known as THE Iron Mike Tyson. Opponents like Tucker, Holmes, Tillis, Thomas werent intimidated IMO, they were veterans or had pretty good records. Yet all those fights were one sided victories for Tyson. If he didnt KO them he outworked them.

Yet, after prison, fighters like Seldon, Bruno, Golota, Norris, all **** themselves, and were scared stiff of the hype and myth of Tyson. They were too scared to fight.

I still say that Tyson never came from behind to win, or win a rematch. He could have, but ultimatly did not. The Holyfield rematch was his only chance to show real heart. But maybe his desire to fight wasnt there.


His style of fighting is the hardest if not the hardest style out there in boxing. You ever thought,he wanted to fight back really hard.but was tired?



Thats a good point. Somthing I and most people dont think of. His explosive style and the way in which he threw his punches take so much energy (u would know more than i would).

I dont believe he could have maintained success with his style for that much longer, even if Rooney had stayed, and he didnt go to prison. Even if he was perfect mentally, totally focused, his style is incredibly taxing physically.

Maybe heart was never that much of an issue.

I dont believe in the theory he could only beat a fighter that was scared.
He destroyed all his early opponents before he was known as THE Iron Mike Tyson. Opponents like Tucker, Holmes, Tillis, Thomas werent intimidated IMO, they were veterans or had pretty good records. Yet all those fights were one sided victories for Tyson. If he didnt KO them he outworked them.

Yet, after prison, fighters like Seldon, Bruno, Golota, Norris, all **** themselves, and were scared stiff of the hype and myth of Tyson. They were too scared to fight.

I still say that Tyson never came from behind to win, or win a rematch. He could have, but ultimatly did not. The Holyfield rematch was his only chance to show real heart. But maybe his desire to fight wasnt there.




Thats a good point. Somthing I and most people dont think of. His explosive style and the way in which he threw his punches take so much energy (u would know more than i would).

I dont believe he could have maintained success with his style for that much longer, even if Rooney had stayed, and he didnt go to prison. Even if he was perfect mentally, totally focused, his style is incredibly taxing physically.

Maybe heart was never that much of an issue.

This is a style take takes more mentally then physically.Once you get to that point where you're tired,you gotta say to yourself."Damn I gotta keep this up for 5 more rounds,while getting pounded on."

.

I still say that Tyson never came from behind to win,. .


Tyson was behind on all scorecards against Botha. And right when the commentater said Tyson looked shot, Mike knocked Botha out cold with one punch.

Tyson was behind on all scorecards against Botha. And right when the commentater said Tyson looked shot, Mike knocked Botha out cold with one punch.

Yea, i thought of including that, but it doesnt qualify as a show of his heart. It only told us what we already knew, that he stood a punchers chance with anybody.

Tyson had hurt all u gta see is the picture of him tryin to pick up his mouth piece after douglas uppercutted him he was tryin to pull it together he wasnt physically prepared for the fight because he was too relaxed and thought he was a push over big mistake there i mean look at the mouth piece half in the guys mouth he wanted to get up so bad but his legs were out of it.
Remember Tyson's closest inspiration died which is cuz dmato im not using it as a excuse but im saying he would of been alot stronger if he was stil alive for sure because he had no body close to him at all except that man.
I think he had alot of heart but once he started being immature he didnt have the will to train as hard as he used to so he cudnet be as good as he used to and we didnt see the full extent of his heart because of his mental state after prison.

Tyson had heart during his reign, but after he lost it started to slide..and the "bald headed" Tyson had no heart at all, he was fighting for money, he said so himself he's tired of boxing.

Tyson may not have come back many times while losing while in the ring, but he fought on dispite upsets out side the ring, Cus dieing and the Jimmy Jacobs dying was for Mike like losing two fathers yet he still fought on and won.

To an earlier comment, of which I posted in another thread as well:

Tyson did hurt Holyfield in the 5th round (I believe) of their first fight, with a hook to the body, uppercut combo. He didn't follow up because on their next close exchange, Holyfield landed a colossal headbutt that cut Mike's eye pretty bad.

In the 2nd round of their second fight, Mike started to fight back after losing the 1st round, and even pushed Holyfield backwards a couple of times in the clinches. He even started throwing punches on the way in, instead of just walking into a clinch. The commentators made mention of this, and the Holyfield landed another headbutt, tearing a big gash into Tyson's eyebrow once again.

I'm not saying these were intentional, but any spirit or heart Mike may have possessed to work his way back into those fights was thrown out the window and he reverted to being a short-tempered punk on the streets.

While his style was physically taxing, you could see from even his most recent bout with McBride, that he could outbox a much larger opponent for at least 6 rounds. Tyson was what... 40 years old then? He just didn't want it anymore and sat down. Even so, his style required a high punch output from the opening bell, which would certainly take a lot out of a guy if it didn't put the opponent down. That could have been disheartening for him to force himself to continue fighting even if he knew he was ahead on the scorecards. I would guess that it was doubly so in a scenario, like with Douglas, where Mike didn't even train properly and wasted a ton of energy missing or boucing haymakers off of Buster's gloves.

To an earlier comment, of which I posted in another thread as well:

Tyson did hurt Holyfield in the 5th round (I believe) of their first fight, with a hook to the body, uppercut combo. He didn't follow up because on their next close exchange, Holyfield landed a colossal headbutt that cut Mike's eye pretty bad.

In the 2nd round of their second fight, Mike started to fight back after losing the 1st round, and even pushed Holyfield backwards a couple of times in the clinches. He even started throwing punches on the way in, instead of just walking into a clinch. The commentators made mention of this, and the Holyfield landed another headbutt, tearing a big gash into Tyson's eyebrow once again.

I'm not saying these were intentional, but any spirit or heart Mike may have possessed to work his way back into those fights was thrown out the window and he reverted to being a short-tempered punk on the streets.

While his style was physically taxing, you could see from even his most recent bout with McBride, that he could outbox a much larger opponent for at least 6 rounds. Tyson was what... 40 years old then? He just didn't want it anymore and sat down. Even so, his style required a high punch output from the opening bell, which would certainly take a lot out of a guy if it didn't put the opponent down. That could have been disheartening for him to force himself to continue fighting even if he knew he was ahead on the scorecards. I would guess that it was doubly so in a scenario, like with Douglas, where Mike didn't even train properly and wasted a ton of energy missing or boucing haymakers off of Buster's gloves.

Very good points, Brass.:fing02: