View Full Version : Need real MMA fans Opinions!!!!


mrpain81
09-04-2007, 12:49 AM
Ok im a fan of both sports and if u look me up I defend both sports with facts, I'll argue with a hardcore MMA or Boxing fan. There was a thread at another forum and I wanted some Unbiased MMA fans opinions about how the argument went and what your thoughts were.

Very interesting stuff check it, Worth a look

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=633793

Let me know your thoughts (unbiased)

Thanx guys

neils7147933
09-04-2007, 12:57 AM
I think a year or two from now EliteXC will be the 'TNA' to UFC's 'WWE'.

If there's a credible alternative to UFC that gets regular exposure and where they can be compensated well, that will make Dana open his pockets a little wider in order to keep some folks. Each EliteXC card has improved upon the other in terms of talent/marketability and the production values are good and it's on a premium network.

I'm a fairly new MMA fan, but that's what I see. And as the sport grows, the payouts will improve. I think 'UFCmania' will dwindle at some point, but not before the sport is legitimized in the mainstream eye, at least to where we see regular articles in the USA Today after major events and see highlights on sports wrap-up shows and coverage in Sports Illustrated that's beyond the 'new controversial sport blah blah blah'...

mrpain81
09-04-2007, 01:59 AM
I think a year or two from now EliteXC will be the 'TNA' to UFC's 'WWE'.

If there's a credible alternative to UFC that gets regular exposure and where they can be compensated well, that will make Dana open his pockets a little wider in order to keep some folks. Each EliteXC card has improved upon the other in terms of talent/marketability and the production values are good and it's on a premium network.

I'm a fairly new MMA fan, but that's what I see. And as the sport grows, the payouts will improve. I think 'UFCmania' will dwindle at some point, but not before the sport is legitimized in the mainstream eye, at least to where we see regular articles in the USA Today after major events and see highlights on sports wrap-up shows and coverage in Sports Illustrated that's beyond the 'new controversial sport blah blah blah'...

What did u think about the thread and points being made? does it seem to you any guys at that website seem to Just look at one point of view?

mrpain81
09-04-2007, 03:19 AM
No Opinions?

neils7147933
09-04-2007, 08:31 AM
What did u think about the thread and points being made? does it seem to you any guys at that website seem to Just look at one point of view?
I don't know what you're looking for...

mrpain81
09-04-2007, 09:43 AM
I don't know what you're looking for...

yeah dude good responce, who know's about eliteX though. Some people think gary shaw is a good promoter, others think he's a peice of ****.

is it always this dead here?

neils7147933
09-04-2007, 10:04 AM
yeah dude good responce, who know's about eliteX though. Some people think gary shaw is a good promoter, others think he's a peice of ****.

is it always this dead here?
Yes it's always this dead here, unless it's immediately during or following a UFC event...

Harms
09-04-2007, 11:01 AM
What did u think about the thread and points being made? does it seem to you any guys at that website seem to Just look at one point of view?

It's ****dog, so don't be surprised by everyone with one point of view. They shouted down and flamed out ppl with different opinions a long time ago.

1bad65
09-04-2007, 11:25 AM
UFC does pay lower than boxing, but it's relative. Boxing may be at a low point now, but overall it still makes more $$$ than UFC. I actually hope that the IFL, EliteXC and the other MMA promotions all do good. Competition is not just good for the fighter's purses, it's good for the fans as well.

As for keeping or getting rid of underperforming guys, it's a tossup. On one hand they cut a guy like Salaverry after one boring fight, yet they keep guys like Koschek and Tim Sylvia around.

nodogoshi
09-04-2007, 05:22 PM
I think a year or two from now EliteXC will be the 'TNA' to UFC's 'WWE'.

If there's a credible alternative to UFC that gets regular exposure and where they can be compensated well, that will make Dana open his pockets a little wider in order to keep some folks. Each EliteXC card has improved upon the other in terms of talent/marketability and the production values are good and it's on a premium network.

I'm a fairly new MMA fan, but that's what I see. And as the sport grows, the payouts will improve. I think 'UFCmania' will dwindle at some point, but not before the sport is legitimized in the mainstream eye, at least to where we see regular articles in the USA Today after major events and see highlights on sports wrap-up shows and coverage in Sports Illustrated that's beyond the 'new controversial sport blah blah blah'...


I agree that EliteXC is on the rise, but i've also noticed a big difference in the way they work compared to the UFC. The thing is, EliteXC seems to work more like boxing then like the UFC because EliteXC has contracted with other organizations such as K-1 and Strikeforce. So to me it seems like EliteXC operates more like a promoter of various fights and events, and gives these events airspace on showtime. While they do also put on their own events, I see it going more in the direction I've been saying. For instance, the Brock Lesnar card was actually K-1 and the Shamrock-Baroni one was strikeforce. Also, the company has anounced that they will feature fights in both the ring and the cage, so to me these is indicative that they intend to work with other promoters.

I think this is a good development when compared to the way the UFC operates, and I think it will prove a successful model in MMA as it has in boxing. Dana White is acting like a pimp right now, trying to lock all the fighters into exclusive contracts and dictating what they make or whether they will even be allowed to continue fighting with UFC after a particular event (i.e. it looks like Babalu was simply realeased without even going through any hearings/procedures at all). It seems the buying of Pride was merely an effort by the UFC to snag additional fighters (Pride has long been the home of the HW division) while at the same time destroying their biggest rivals.

Basically, Zuffa is essentially trying to monopolize the (telivized) MMA market, to the detriment of fighters and fans alike. This is why I see EliteXC as a very good development, both because it provides viable competition and elevates the status of various other promotions as well. I wonder how much EliteXC is involved in the current Fedor sweepstakes going on.

FluugMacMan
09-04-2007, 07:09 PM
(i.e. it looks like Babalu was simply realeased without even going through any hearings/procedures at all).
Well from what I remember, unless you have a contract renewed when you're the champion, if you lose 2 times in a row the UFC has the option of canceling your contract. If you're the champion at the time, I believe it's three losses.

Babalu lost to Timmy, then to the Cop, so his contract could have been canceled at anytime (at Dana's discretion), unless he renewed it once again.
Besides, Babalu's release could create a lawsuit on Dana, so I'm sure such a clause exists in Zuffa contracts.

Palma
09-05-2007, 04:29 AM
Zuffa is the 800 pound gorilla of the MMA world and they currently have a monopoly that is untested. Fedor maybe king of the the MMA world, but Zuffa is the landlord of the MMA world. Fedor will have to drop to his knees and bow down to Zuffa at one point in his career. If not, he will be a king without a castle. Fedor is a top notch, top of the food chain competitor and it would be ridiculous he join anything less. Hulk Hogan fought in the WWF/WWE and Fedor needs to be fighting in the UFC!

1bad65
09-05-2007, 10:03 AM
Babalu's release may have something to do with his not realeasing a choke on his last opponent after he tapped and the referee was trying to pull him off. He was fined his ENTIRE purse by the way.

Palma
09-05-2007, 11:53 AM
Babalu's release may have something to do with his not realeasing a choke on his last opponent after he tapped and the referee was trying to pull him off. He was fined his ENTIRE purse by the way.

Man, that is a harsh penalty. I didn't see the bout, but was it as bad as the BJ Penn's last bout? BJ held that chokd pretty long after the ref signaled for a stoppage.

1bad65
09-05-2007, 12:22 PM
It was worse than Penn's fight. The ref was tapping Babalu's shoulder and pulling on him, yet Babalu held it tight. He actually choked the guy unconscious.

nodogoshi
09-05-2007, 01:36 PM
Well from what I remember, unless you have a contract renewed when you're the champion, if you lose 2 times in a row the UFC has the option of canceling your contract. If you're the champion at the time, I believe it's three losses.

Babalu lost to Timmy, then to the Cop, so his contract could have been canceled at anytime (at Dana's discretion), unless he renewed it once again.
Besides, Babalu's release could create a lawsuit on Dana, so I'm sure such a clause exists in Zuffa contracts.

Yes obviously they have the option to release him, but the reason was because of not realeasing the choke.. he may have deserved it but he has stated that he didn't intend to hold the choke and his comments were directed at his aggressive performance. The dude could be completely full of ****, but he still deserves a proper hearing is all i'm saying.

He was fined his ENTIRE purse by the way.

Actually he was fined the $25,000 winning portion of his $50,000 purse.

Zuffa is the 800 pound gorilla of the MMA world and they currently have a monopoly that is untested. Fedor maybe king of the the MMA world, but Zuffa is the landlord of the MMA world. Fedor will have to drop to his knees and bow down to Zuffa at one point in his career. If not, he will be a king without a castle. Fedor is a top notch, top of the food chain competitor and it would be ridiculous he join anything less. Hulk Hogan fought in the WWF/WWE and Fedor needs to be fighting in the UFC!

Zuffa is not a monopoly but they do have considerable market power which allows them to act like one. Monopolies tend to **** over customers and employees at the expense of corporate profits, thats what it looks like is going on hear (at least on the employee side).

Phil Bologna
09-05-2007, 02:21 PM
I'm an artificial (because I take ass-steriods) MMA fan and I think you SUCK!

Palma
09-06-2007, 05:49 AM
Yes obviously they have the option to release him, but the reason was because of not realeasing the choke.. he may have deserved it but he has stated that he didn't intend to hold the choke and his comments were directed at his aggressive performance. The dude could be completely full of ****, but he still deserves a proper hearing is all i'm saying.



Actually he was fined the $25,000 winning portion of his $50,000 purse.



Zuffa is not a monopoly but they do have considerable market power which allows them to act like one. Monopolies tend to **** over customers and employees at the expense of corporate profits, thats what it looks like is going on hear (at least on the employee side).

I guess you haven't seen what Zuffa pays their fighters.

nodogoshi
09-06-2007, 08:59 PM
I guess you haven't seen what Zuffa pays their fighters.

I mistyped, I meant to say that they pay their fighters **** in favor of corporate profits.

Or you think they get paid ok?

Palma
09-07-2007, 07:33 AM
I mistyped, I meant to say that they pay their fighters **** in favor of corporate profits.

Or you think they get paid ok?

They get paid ****.

Palma
09-07-2007, 07:34 AM
I mistyped, I meant to say that they pay their fighters **** in favor of corporate profits.

Or you think they get paid ok?

So they ARE a monopoly.

neils7147933
09-07-2007, 10:01 AM
So they ARE a monopoly.
They're not a monopoly. Anyone willing to invest some money right now can put up a rival league. They do have a number of the world's best fighters under contract, but as long as they're not blocking other people from entering the game, they're not doing anything wrong. If they were a true monopoly, Pro Elite and Bodog wouldn't exist...

It's risky to try to start-up because of exposure, etc. - but these two both have national TV deals...

neils7147933
09-07-2007, 10:02 AM
I'm an artificial (because I take ass-steriods) MMA fan and I think you SUCK!
BPP,

Ban.

This.

Fool.

Palma
09-08-2007, 05:02 AM
They're not a monopoly. Anyone willing to invest some money right now can put up a rival league. They do have a number of the world's best fighters under contract, but as long as they're not blocking other people from entering the game, they're not doing anything wrong. If they were a true monopoly, Pro Elite and Bodog wouldn't exist...

It's risky to try to start-up because of exposure, etc. - but these two both have national TV deals...

For now they exist, but I wouldn't put it passed Zuffa to conduct a hostile take-over in the future.

nodogoshi
09-08-2007, 02:08 PM
For now they exist, but I wouldn't put it passed Zuffa to conduct a hostile take-over in the future.

Yeah lets hope not, the way they disolved pride was pretty ****ed

Harms
09-08-2007, 02:30 PM
For now they exist, but I wouldn't put it passed Zuffa to conduct a hostile take-over in the future.


How exactly could they do a hostile takeover of private companies? Here is what has happened that let Zuffa do a "hostile takeover". Pride, WEC, and WFA all were hemmoraging money out their anus and the owners and investors wanted to sell. Here comes Zuffa with train carloads of cash and buys the company. It's pretty simple. If EliteXC and Bodog are making money off of their ventures in MMA, then they will have no need to sell. I'm pretty sure regardless of how bad BodogMMA is doing, Bodog won't be hurting for money anytime soon.

nodogoshi
09-08-2007, 02:44 PM
How exactly could they do a hostile takeover of private companies? Here is what has happened that let Zuffa do a "hostile takeover". Pride, WEC, and WFA all were hemmoraging money out their anus and the owners and investors wanted to sell. Here comes Zuffa with train carloads of cash and buys the company. It's pretty simple. If EliteXC and Bodog are making money off of their ventures in MMA, then they will have no need to sell. I'm pretty sure regardless of how bad BodogMMA is doing, Bodog won't be hurting for money anytime soon.


Hostile takeover= when one party buys up over half of a company's stock.

This could happen if any org. got into financial trouble.

Harms
09-08-2007, 02:56 PM
Hostile takeover= when one party buys up over half of a company's stock.

This could happen if any org. got into financial trouble.

Your exactly right, but since EliteXC, K-1, and Bodog are private companies and not publically traded, it would be hard to buy up over half of a companies stock that doesn't exist. The only way Zuffa could takeover these companies are if said companies want to sell. Which is what I asked how will they do a hostile takeover of private company.

nodogoshi
09-08-2007, 03:50 PM
Your exactly right, but since EliteXC, K-1, and Bodog are private companies and not publically traded, it would be hard to buy up over half of a companies stock that doesn't exist. The only way Zuffa could takeover these companies are if said companies want to sell. Which is what I asked how will they do a hostile takeover of private company.

Ah my bad,

I wasn't saying it was likely, but I guess ur right that the company's would have to sell for it to go down.

I wonder if the several major orgs are going to start buying up all the small ones, with EliteXC purchasing CR and Dreamworks, following the UFC purchase of Pride and WEC.

Harms
09-08-2007, 03:57 PM
Ah my bad,

I wasn't saying it was likely, but I guess ur right that the company's would have to sell for it to go down.

I wonder if the several major orgs are going to start buying up all the small ones, with EliteXC purchasing CR and Dreamworks, following the UFC purchase of Pride and WEC.

I've enjoyed the EliteXC events. The next one looks good too. The last Cage Rage wasn't bad. EliteXC seems to be trying to compete.

nodogoshi
09-08-2007, 06:03 PM
I've enjoyed the EliteXC events. The next one looks good too. The last Cage Rage wasn't bad. EliteXC seems to be trying to compete.

Yeah I like what EliteXC is doing, they say they'll contract with many orgs and let fighters from any org fight for their belts. They also seem to be investing pretty well in the companies they acquire.