Japanese history always facinated me, it's culture was one that seemed strange to me - their warrior class had been, for a large part of it's history, held in higher esteem than that of the intellects of the land. Their whole society seemed to have been based around the concept of Darwin's law of survival of the fittest - a genuine warrior society. A chapter in their history which I found particularly quirky when looking at the rest of the civilised world at the time was a self imposed reclusion from increased globalisation.

For nearly a century Japan, with approximately 500,000 Catholics by the early 1600s, was the most spectacular success story in Asia for European missionaries. Why did so many convert? Some undoubtedly were attracted by the Christian message of salvation, but others hoped to gain economic or political advantage.

The daimyo of Omura seems to have converted in the hope of attracting more trade to his port city of Nagasaki, and Oda Nobunaga (1534-1582) the general who unified approximately half of Japan, encouraged Christian missionaries to undermine the political influence of the powerful and wealthy Buddhist monasteries.

Nobunaga's tolerance of missionary activity was the main reason for the many converts in the region around Kyoto, Japan's imperial city.

Although the dynamics of Japanese politics at first favored the European missionary effort, when those dynamics changed, Christianity was persecuted and finally crushed.

Nobunaga's successor, Hideyoshi (15 36-1598), launched the antiforeign, anti-Christian policy that culminated in the Tokugawa exclusion edicts. Hideyoshi distrusted Europeans' motives after the Spaniards conquered the Philippines and came to question the loyalty of certain dalmyo who had converted.

In 1597 he ordered the execution by crucifixion of nine Catholic missionaries and seventeen Japanese converts. In their singleminded pursuit of stability and order, the early Tokugawa also feared the subversive potential of Christianity and quickly moved to obliterate it, even at the expense of isolating Japan and ending a century of promising commercial contacts with China, Southeast Asia, and Europe.

Japan's isolation policy was fully implemented by Tokugawa Iemitsu, the grandson of Ievasu and shogun from 1623 to 1641. He issued edicts that essentially closed Japan to all foreigners and prevented Japanese from leaving.

- m

aint touching that one majic

well then, touch yourself and post pictures when convenient.

Im impressed with your facination with the Land of the Rising Sun , Magic. You are right, by the time of Tokugawa, Japan had isolated itself from foreign influence as much as possible. This did not mean that they had no contact at all with the outside. They still had trade with China and Holland.
The main reason for this was Japan was afraid that Western powers would try to colonize and destroy them, just as they had in many Asian countries, including Africa and India.
As history goes, we all know that this isolation was broken when Amerca's Commodor Perry forcefully opened it's sea ports. This eventually led to Tokugawa losing his influence and power over japan, and created a brief civil war. What resulted was a unified japan fighting under the name of the emperor. The samurai class and status were abolished and thus creating a new era in Japan's civilization. The threat of Western invasion led to the eventual militarization of the country.

that is cool as ****. specially the executions.

Originally posted by shadow
The main reason for this was Japan was afraid that Western powers would try to colonize and destroy them, just as they had in many Asian countries, including Africa and India.
As history goes, we all know that this isolation was broken when Amerca's Commodor Perry forcefully opened it's sea ports. This eventually led to Tokugawa losing his influence and power over japan, and created a brief civil war. What resulted was a unified japan fighting under the name of the emperor. The samurai class and status were abolished and thus creating a new era in Japan's civilization. The threat of Western invasion led to the eventual militarization of the country.

ah yes thanks kage, yeah I mean if I was emperor, i would have been pretty cautious of the gaijin as well, it seemed they were doing this everywhere - what indication was there that Japan would be any different. Imo, I think their self impossed withdrawl from globalisation was in fact, given the circumstances in their best interest at the time.

Yes, the end of the Samurai class sucked when the Meiji restoration occured...otherwise who know? Maybe there would still be samurai running around lopping peoples head off :(

I don't know to much about japanese history maybe I should look into it.

Well I think it is damn interesting, very different from western culture civilisations.

Does it have a lot of cool wars in it?

Originally posted by gman
Does it have a lot of cool wars in it?

dude...Japan was a war NATION. Their entire culture was based on survival of the fittest, the samurai/warrior class was highly revered, warlords, assassinations, galore.

Plus, the Japanese culture is pretty goddamn interesting too - I'm not talking McDonalds in tokyo.

Magic, i hope you someday get the opportunity to visit Tokyo and Japan. If i move there in the future i would be glad to show you around. Me casa Su casa

heh, thanks Kage, I was actually supposed to go earlier this year, but didn't have the cash to go :(

are u still living in washington?

Magic one aspect of the answer I think lies with the fact that the Tokugawas adopted/fostered a Neo-Confucian state ideology to support their claim to supremacy and legitimise the new social order they had instaured.

Foreign ideas like Christianity with it's social equality ideological substrate would run counter to the "don't question the way things are" message that Tokugawa Neo-Confucianism advocated.

So to answer your original question I think that yes the Tokugawas themselves benefitted from limiting deep foreign penetration of their society. As for Japan as a whole I don't know.

By the way I ripped off these ideas from a book I read by Herman Ooms called "Tokugawa Ideology:Early Constructs 1570-1680".

BANZAI!

Boston Magic, Boston. Ive never lived in washington :)

Kage, I thought you were going to move to Japan?

Originally posted by JasonLeonardOBE
Magic one aspect of the answer I think lies with the fact that the Tokugawas adopted/fostered a Neo-Confucian state ideology to support their claim to supremacy and legitimise the new social order they had instaured.

Foreign ideas like Christianity with it's social equality ideological substrate would run counter to the "don't question the way things are" message that Tokugawa Neo-Confucianism advocated.

So to answer your original question I think that yes the Tokugawas themselves benefitted from limiting deep foreign penetration of their society. As for Japan as a whole I don't know.

By the way I ripped off these ideas from a book I read by Herman Ooms called "Tokugawa Ideology:Early Constructs 1570-1680".

BANZAI!

interesting Jason Leonard OBE, I've never heard that one before hmm, thanks for that.

who would have thought, a rubgy playing roughneck would exhibit such mental astuteness!? :)

- m

Talking just about contemporary Japan Magic Man and specially in literature if you are interested in the culture of Japan try to read the tetralogy of the sea of fetility by Yukio Mishima.

Other authors Kenzaburo Oe and Murakami.

Originally posted by Piedra
Talking just about contemporary Japan Magic Man and specially in literature if you are interested in the culture of Japan try to read the tetralogy of the sea of fetility by Yukio Mishima.

Other authors Kenzaburo Oe and Murakami.

Hey Piedra I agree Mishima is a great example of the pros and cons of Western penetration of modern Japanese culture and postwar "angst". Fascinating character. Did you see the movie they made about him?
http://www.links.net/vita/trip/japan/media/bukz/mishima/pix/mishima-sword.lg.jpg

Originally posted by gman
I don't know to much about japanese history maybe I should look into it.

Japanese history is facsinating.

During the waring states period espically

yep, creed knows his **** - look up the "Sengoku Jidai" - the age of the country at war, awesome ****.