From Dan Severn to Mark Coleman to Mark Kerr to Dan Henderson to Dan Coutoure to Mark Lindland to Kevin Jackson, etc, etc. the thing they have in common is that they have no submission skills. I don't count keylocks or neckcranks as subs but rather power moves.

Someone elaborate.

Originally posted by Money
From Dan Severn to Mark Coleman to Mark Kerr to Dan Henderson to Dan Coutoure to Mark Lindland to Kevin Jackson, etc, etc. the thing they have in common is that they have no submission skills. I don't count keylocks or neckcranks as subs but rather power moves.

Someone elaborate.

Do you mean Randy Coutoure, Matt Lindland and Kevin Randleman??

It's a good question. These guys do MMA for a living, already have incredible ground skills and can't incorporate some submission skills into their repertoires. It must have something to do with the basic concepts of wrestling, that they stay true to that prevents them from becoming more sub. oriented. Wrestlers don't like to be on their backs, and alot of good subs come from the back. But you'd think you'd see an armbar from the mount every now and then. I guess there content to GnP.

It fits under the position or submission debate.

with G/P one really plays it safe just moving to mount which wrestlers do well.

Wrestlers suck at subs because of a fundamental difference in philosophy, many don't even want to learn BJJ because they're intensely proud of being wrestlers and feel that they're wrestling and GnP is superior. Learning something else might mean that wrestling isn't the best way to kick ass. Of course, I don't agree, wrestling, by itself is too one dimensional.

how come mauy thai guys suck at subs?

You stick with what your good at. The thing people forget about MMA is that you don't have to learn enough of something to use it in a fight, just defend against it

Most of them don't need subs to win.

If you're going into an MMA fight only knowing one style, you better know wrestling. That's the only one you can get away with only knowing, know a days.