Well, i saw the other day Leonard - Duran I and before the fight i was asking myself, how the hell did duran beat him. Im talking about if he used a strategy did he used, etc... or how he was going to get close to Leonard, cos i thought he was going to outbox as a strategy.
But for my surprise the fight was an Infight war !!!!

Was this because Leonard wanted to beat Duran at his game?? , cos i think if he would have outbox he, in theory, should have won =P. Well, what do you think about it.

Btw, i thought Leonard did an impressive fight.

Leonard says he was caught by a left hook early in the fight and couldn't keep Duran off him after that. Leonard does seem to recover the last couple rounds, but probably because Duran is coasting, having already won the fight.

Leonard also says the way Duran fought that night, there's little if anything he (SRL) could have done to beat him. It's not so much Leonard messed up, but Duran fought perfectly. The way he rolled under Leonard's flurries shows ho tuned in he was on Leonard

That was a masterful performance by Duran. If you saw the before and after pics of Duran when he started training for this fight, you wouldn't recognize him. Ray Arcel Duran's then trainer, said he was like a kid again, hopping in and out of the ring, doing crazy stuff. They feared he would injure himself and ruin the fight. After entering the ring that night in Montreal, Duran removed his robe, and reveled a totally new look for him.
He looked muscular, he had trained like a man possessed. And fought like it too. Ray was overwhelmed from the start. He fought back like a champion, but it wasn't enough. Duran would not be denied.
In the 2nd round Duran hurt Ray with a good left hook, he all but jumped out of his socks to get at leonard to finish him. Duran hit anything he could, arms, elbows, shoulders. Great fight.

oh yes, duran did a terrific fight, it was amazing.
but i was also amazed that leonard could keep up with that amazing performance of duran.
well, thats expected of two legends of boxing =P.

i was just thinking this because of the hatton- mayweather fight.
im not saying hatton is exactly as duran, and mayweather exactly as leonard, but its obvious that hatton will go for an infight and mayweather will try to keep him at distance. the thing is i dont think mayweather could keep the rythm of an infight like leonard did against duran.

well, just a thought... =P.... i also thought that leonard couldnt have keep the pace of an infight with duran, but to my surprise he did.

well, i have been watching boxing for only 6 months, so there are a lot of classic fights i havent seen, and things i dont know =P

The style analogy (to Hatton-PBF) is not inappropriate, but I don't know if Hatton can perform as well as that.

Watching that fight I think I scored it a lot closer than some, but Duran fought a magnificent fight. Yes Leonard was sucked into Duran's mind games and fought Duran's fight, but mind games like that are a part of boxing. It shouldn't in any way detract from Duran's performance any more than Ali's mind games should lessen his performance against Liston. At the same time I'm reluctant to criticise Leonard's performance because I think he fought a terrific fight as well: Duran's was just a bit better. I scored the fight 8-6-1 in rounds, 144-142 10 point must, for Duran.

Poet

It was Mr. Soprano and Beowolf, the didn't like my opinion of Wlad Klitscho LOL! Thanks BTW, I like trading posts with you KayJay.

Poet

What did you say poet?


Not that it matters much, it's just an opinion about a boxer. I just want to know how out of line they were.

The jist of my opinion of Wlad was that he sucked that's when Beowolf took if I remember rightly. Somehow the thread then turned into a debate on soccer and I ended up getting into it with an obnoxious Brit and that's when Mr. Soprano took offense. The Brit was cutting loose with a bunch of anti-American epithets and I took offense at it and traded with the guy toe to toe.

Poet

Duran called Leonard's wife a hoar, so that enraged Leonard and so he traded with Duran, which was the wrong strategy. But when Leonard stuck to the right game plan in the second fight, you could see that Duran all but fell apart.:fing02:

Duran called Leonard's wife a hoar, so that enraged Leonard and so he traded with Duran, which was the wrong strategy. But when Leonard stuck to the right game plan in the second fight, you could see that Duran all but fell apart.:fing02:

You make it sound like it was all about one guy; the bigger difference between the two fights was Duran's conditioning.

Duran called Leonard's wife a hoar, so that enraged Leonard and so he traded with Duran, which was the wrong strategy. But when Leonard stuck to the right game plan in the second fight, you could see that Duran all but fell apart.:fing02:

you forgot to mention the most important aspect of Leonard's plan for the rematch: wait for Duran to party enough to be badly out of shape and then offer him the rematch on short notice.

you forgot to mention the most important aspect of Leonard's plan for the rematch: wait for Duran to party enough to be badly out of shape and then offer him the rematch on short notice.

Kool-Aid is on sale at your local supermarket.:fing02:

Kool-Aid is on sale at your local supermarket.:fing02:

translation of butterfly1964: I got no answer.

wmute: I thought so

Someone else has picked up on my KoolAid drinkers phrase! :D

Poet

Someone else has picked up on my KoolAid drinkers phrase! :D

Poet

You didnt originate that phrase.:nonono:

translation of butterfly1964: I got no answer.

Actually Duran had no answer to Leonard's strategy. Leonard was dishing out the same medicine that Duran gave him in the first fight. Leonard's plan was simply to stick, move, taunt, and embarras. Duran couldn't handle the pressure so he quit. This only proves the old saying, "He can dish it out, but he certainly can't take it.":fing02:

Actually Duran had no answer to Leonard's strategy. Leonard was dishing out the same medicine that Duran gave him in the first fight. Leonard's plan was simply to stick, move, taunt, and embarras. Duran couldn't handle the pressure so he quit. This only proves the old saying, "He can dish it out, but he certainly can't take it.":fing02:

Leonard made sure Duran was weight drained or more in general not in shape. He did so by waiting a long time before talking about rematch and offering it on short notice.

You can blah blah KoolAid all you want, but Leonard himself said this in "Beyond the Glory" (the one about Duran-Leonard).

Leonard admittedly made sure he did not have to face the same Duran he faced a few months before.

Leonard made sure Duran was weight drained or more in general not in shape. He did so by waiting a long time before talking about rematch and offering it on short notice.

You can blah blah KoolAid all you want, but Leonard himself said this in "Beyond the Glory" (the one about Duran-Leonard).

Leonard admittedly made sure he did not have to face the same Duran he faced a few months before.

He also admitted that Duran was the best fighter he faced, and that he couldn't have beaten the Duran he faced in Montreal. I don't know why Butterfly wants to rewrite this very certain episode in boxing history.

You didnt originate that phrase.:nonono:

No I didn't, I'm just the only one I know who uses it LOL!

Poet

He did so by waiting a long time before talking about rematch and offering it on short notice.

What would you classify as "short notice", my friend, as far as a time period goes?

I only ask because, looking through the archives, I see that Duran is talking the Nov 25th date even as early as the beginning of September of that year, and while the fight was still in the negotiating and "tentative" stages at the time he made that statement, it wasn't before too long when the fight was signed by both parties, as it was in the first couple of days of October when the rematch was offically announced to the public that it was going to take place.

What would you classify as "short notice", my friend, as far as a time period goes?

I only ask because, looking through the archives, I see that Duran is talking the Nov 25th date even as early as the beginning of September of that year, and while the fight was still in the negotiating and "tentative" stages at the time he made that statement, it wasn't before too long when the fight was signed by both parties, as it was in the first couple of days of October when the rematch was offically announced to the public that it was going to take place.

point taken.

I did not mean a Burley-Moore type of short notice.

I base my statement mostly on Leonard's words, but I know that we are not talking a 3 weeks notice.

Moreover, the blame for becoming a balloon of fat and booze is all on Duran. Duran had a longer layoff than what he was used to (possibly the longest? you can confirm/correct this), and the most parties he ever had I would imagine.

He couldn't have beaten the Duran he faced in Montreal.

And Duran couldn't have beaten the Leonard he faced in New Orleans.:fing02:

And Duran couldn't have beaten the Leonard he faced in New Orleans.:fing02:

Fair play . . . .

He also admitted that Duran was the best fighter he faced, and that he couldn't have beaten the Duran he faced in Montreal. I don't know why Butterfly wants to rewrite this very certain episode in boxing history.

Nope like I said b4 retired boxers are to modest now'a days. First Leonrd gave Duran a in fight and did very well at it. Leonrd deserves alot of credit for that. 2nd fight Leonrd did what he was suppose to do! What every SRL fan wanted him to do! He boxed. With his good foot work he manage to move around so freely as he whoped on Duran. Duran felt direspected and Duran fans felt direspected. I believe there should have been a 3rd fight atleast

See what happen between Duran and Leonrd is the same as in what happen between Mayweather and JLC. JLC won the first fight because Mayweather gave him his in fight. In fight as in thats JLC favorite way to go against his oponents. JLC did a good job but was given a lost when I will admit as a PBF fan THAT IT Should HAVE BEEN A WIN. Then in the 2nd fight Mayweather boxed. See where I'm getting at here? I am not saying SRL is better then Duran Nor am I saying that Duran is better then SRL. They are both GREAT LEGENDS. But what I am trying to say is that u can never say whos better then who between the two.

Nope like I said b4 retired boxers are to modest now'a days. First Leonrd gave Duran a in fight and did very well at it. Leonrd deserves alot of credit for that. 2nd fight Leonrd did what he was suppose to do! What every SRL fan wanted him to do! He boxed. With his good foot work he manage to move around so freely as he whoped on Duran. Duran felt direspected and Duran fans felt direspected. I believe there should have been a 3rd fight atleast

See what happen between Duran and Leonrd is the same as in what happen between Mayweather and JLC. JLC won the first fight because Mayweather gave him his in fight. In fight as in thats JLC favorite way to go against his oponents. JLC did a good job but was given a lost when I will admit as a PBF fan THAT IT Should HAVE BEEN A WIN. Then in the 2nd fight Mayweather boxed. See where I'm getting at here? I am not saying SRL is better then Duran Nor am I saying that Duran is better then SRL. They are both GREAT LEGENDS. But what I am trying to say is that u can never say whos better then who between the two.

so it's your conjectures over Leonard's words?

Nope like I said b4 retired boxers are to modest now'a days. First Leonrd gave Duran a in fight and did very well at it. Leonrd deserves alot of credit for that. 2nd fight Leonrd did what he was suppose to do! What every SRL fan wanted him to do! He boxed. With his good foot work he manage to move around so freely as he whoped on Duran. Duran felt direspected and Duran fans felt direspected. I believe there should have been a 3rd fight atleast

See what happen between Duran and Leonrd is the same as in what happen between Mayweather and JLC. JLC won the first fight because Mayweather gave him his in fight. In fight as in thats JLC favorite way to go against his oponents. JLC did a good job but was given a lost when I will admit as a PBF fan THAT IT Should HAVE BEEN A WIN. Then in the 2nd fight Mayweather boxed. See where I'm getting at here? I am not saying SRL is better then Duran Nor am I saying that Duran is better then SRL. They are both GREAT LEGENDS. But what I am trying to say is that u can never say whos better then who between the two.

You can't compare Leonard-Duran to PBF-JLC. Duran rightfully ranks above Loenard in most all time p4p rankings, JLC does not rank close to Mayweather.

You can compare Mayweather to Loenard, maybe, but JLC is nowhere near the class of Duran.

And of the two Leonard-Duran fights, the first one is the one that counts more, just like Ali-Frazier I counts more than the others.

You can't compare Leonard-Duran to PBF-JLC. Duran rightfully ranks above Loenard in most all time p4p rankings, JLC does not rank close to Mayweather.

You can compare Mayweather to Loenard, maybe, but JLC is nowhere near the class of Duran.

And of the two Leonard-Duran fights, the first one is the one that counts more, just like Ali-Frazier I counts more than the others.

also Duran was the smaller man against Leonard (kinda...), Mayweather was the smaller man against JLC, that's another huge difference.

You can't compare Leonard-Duran to PBF-JLC. Duran rightfully ranks above Loenard in most all time p4p rankings, JLC does not rank close to Mayweather.

You can compare Mayweather to Loenard, maybe, but JLC is nowhere near the class of Duran.

And of the two Leonard-Duran fights, the first one is the one that counts more, just like Ali-Frazier I counts more than the others.

I'm not compareing the fighters. I am compareing that these fighters got into the same situation.
JLC beats PBF fighting inside (BUT) was given a lost. When he clearly won
Duran wins the first fight Because Leonrd gave him a in fight.
JLC and Duran win in fight

2nd fight. This is what happens when they chose to outbox their oponents in the 2nd fight

PBF beats JLC and
SRL beats duran

See I didn't compare the fighters. I was saying that PBF and SRL got into the same situation

You can't compare Leonard-Duran to PBF-JLC. Duran rightfully ranks above Loenard in most all time p4p rankings, JLC does not rank close to Mayweather.

You can compare Mayweather to Loenard, maybe, but JLC is nowhere near the class of Duran.

And of the two Leonard-Duran fights, the first one is the one that counts more, just like Ali-Frazier I counts more than the others.

Duran's is mostly based on his time at Lightweight where many, including myself, consider him the best Lightweight ever. Your point is well taken though. Very few fighters in history are in the class of Duran. As much as I like Castillo he isn't in that class; neither is Mayweather for that matter. Maybe Floyd will be when all is said and done but I think that kind of talk about him is WAY premature at this time.

Poet

Nope like I said b4 retired boxers are to modest now'a days. First Leonrd gave Duran a in fight and did very well at it. Leonrd deserves alot of credit for that. 2nd fight Leonrd did what he was suppose to do! What every SRL fan wanted him to do! He boxed. With his good foot work he manage to move around so freely as he whoped on Duran. Duran felt direspected and Duran fans felt direspected. I believe there should have been a 3rd fight atleast

See what happen between Duran and Leonrd is the same as in what happen between Mayweather and JLC. JLC won the first fight because Mayweather gave him his in fight. In fight as in thats JLC favorite way to go against his oponents. JLC did a good job but was given a lost when I will admit as a PBF fan THAT IT Should HAVE BEEN A WIN. Then in the 2nd fight Mayweather boxed. See where I'm getting at here? I am not saying SRL is better then Duran Nor am I saying that Duran is better then SRL. They are both GREAT LEGENDS. But what I am trying to say is that u can never say whos better then who between the two.

i see what your doing with the comparison
but castillo didnt even win the first fight with mayweather
it was indeed a close fight but he didnt win

does anyone have the first fight between duran and leonard?

i see what your doing with the comparison
but castillo didnt even win the first fight with mayweather
it was indeed a close fight but he didnt win

does anyone have the first fight between duran and leonard?

Nope like I said b4 retired boxers are to modest now'a days. First Leonrd gave Duran a in fight and did very well at it. Leonrd deserves alot of credit for that. 2nd fight Leonrd did what he was suppose to do! What every SRL fan wanted him to do! He boxed. With his good foot work he manage to move around so freely as he whoped on Duran. Duran felt direspected and Duran fans felt direspected. I believe there should have been a 3rd fight atleast

See what happen between Duran and Leonrd is the same as in what happen between Mayweather and JLC. JLC won the first fight because Mayweather gave him his in fight. In fight as in thats JLC favorite way to go against his oponents. JLC did a good job but was given a lost when I will admit as a PBF fan THAT IT Should HAVE BEEN A WIN. Then in the 2nd fight Mayweather boxed. See where I'm getting at here? I am not saying SRL is better then Duran Nor am I saying that Duran is better then SRL. They are both GREAT LEGENDS. But what I am trying to say is that u can never say whos better then who between the two.

There was a third fight and it was VERY forgettable.

Poet