Lets get some predictions and opinions on Lidell vs. Ortiz and
Silva vs. Lidell

I think Lidell will knock out Silva if they fight- Silva is too wild and i believe chuck is th best striker in mma at the moment

Ortiz vs. Lidell- this is a tough one to call- If Lidell can keep it off the floor i believe he will win and if tito can keep it on the floor i believe he will win- I cant wait to see thi one


Lets hear your opinions

Liddell vs Silva ........Silva
Liddell vs Tito...........Liddell
Tito vs Silva ...........Silva

im guessin u like silva..... curly

Liddell vs Silva=Silva.
He can be a very controlled striker if he knows there's danger, like vs cro-cop, and he has great stamina.

Liddell vs Tito=Lidell.
I think that within five rounds he could catch Tito clean and end it, and Tito doesn't have great finishing power vs good fighters.
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Tito vs silva+ silva
liddel vs tito= tito
silva vs liddel=sliva

omg......

Tito beat Silva when they fought.

Why do people think Silva is better than Ortiz or Liddel? He hasn't beaten a single top light heavyweight. Henderson and Sakuraba are 185 lb fighters. Mezger isn't a top guy anymore.

The fight in the LHW divison is Ortiz/Liddel

Chuck is the only one with a chance against Tito. Tito is so phyiscaly strong, he is a freak.

Liddell
Liddell
Liddell

I got Liddel on every fight. He is the greatest in his weight class.

In every fight Tito is doubted by a lot of people. Tito will beat Liddell and Silva.

Originally posted by Creed
omg......

Tito beat Silva when they fought.

Why do people think Silva is better than Ortiz or Liddel? He hasn't beaten a single top light heavyweight.

He's had 12 fights after he fought Tito. and he was 10-0-1 and one no contest. He went to a draw with Cro Cop (under special rules) Silva is a different fighter then when he fought Tito and Belfort. He beat Henderson, Mezger and Sakuraba twice.
It wasn't too long ago you said that Henderson was the best PfP
fighter out there. Who has Tito beat since the Silva fight?
He fought old Shamrock, Elvis, Matyushenko, Yuki Kondo and Evan Tanner. Not taking anything away from those guys but they aren't Henderson or Sakuraba even at 185.
They fought 3 years ago. 2 completely different fights now.
That's why they have rematches.

Originally posted by Tanner Rhoden
Liddell
Liddell
Liddell

He's right. Liddell is currently the most dangerous LH on the planet.

Liddell vs Silva ........Silva
Liddell vs Tito...........Liddell
Tito vs Silva ...........Tito

IMO there is no ****ing way that Silva could beat Tito or Chuck......
Silva Vs. Liddell - Liddell
Silva Vs. Ortiz - Ortiz
Ortiz Vs. Liddell - Liddell

Originally posted by kaps
No ****ing way that Silva could beat Tito or Chuck......
Silva Vs. Liddell - Liddell
Silva Vs. Ortiz - Ortiz
Ortiz Vs. Liddell - Liddell

Not sure how you can say he has no chance of winning. He's one of the top three guys and anything can happen in a fight...
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True anything can happen, I retract my statement....

for god sakes Liddle is not the best striker in mma....Cro-cop is the best striker in MMA. Everyone says Silvas wild, have you seen him fight latly?...how "wild" did he look againts Cro-cop.

Originally posted by Big-g
for god sakes Liddle is not the best striker in mma....Cro-cop is the best striker in MMA. Everyone says Silvas wild, have you seen him fight latly?...how "wild" did he look againts Cro-cop.

THANK YOU

Yep, Silva had effective controlled aggression vs cro-cop. I don't think Chuck or Tito would have done as well...
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Liddell vs. Silva - Liddell
Ortiz vs. Silva - Ortiz
Liddell vs. Ortiz - Liddell

Liddell vs Silva: Gonna have to go with Liddell here. But it's a tossup
Silva vs Tito: The rematch would be so different. Silva for sheezy
Liddell vs Tito: Liddell for sure. Tito hasn't faced the level of competition Chuck has. Chuck is getting the KO in this one.

And sure Silva fights a lot of Japanese fighters who have no business being in the ring with him in the first place, but it's not like he's had any trouble with them at all. The speed and efficiency which he beat them is amazing. The guy stood toe to toe with Cro Cop, who is probably one of the best kickboxers in the world. The man is a machine.

Oh yeah, Sakuraba might be a bit lighter, but at the time that Silva beat him, Sakuraba was the best fighter in the world BAR NONE.

Originally posted by Curly Howard
He's had 12 fights after he fought Tito. and he was 10-0-1 and one no contest. He went to a draw with Cro Cop (under special rules) Silva is a different fighter then when he fought Tito and Belfort. He beat Henderson, Mezger and Sakuraba twice.
It wasn't too long ago you said that Henderson was the best PfP
fighter out there. Who has Tito beat since the Silva fight?
He fought old Shamrock, Elvis, Matyushenko, Yuki Kondo and Evan Tanner. Not taking anything away from those guys but they aren't Henderson or Sakuraba even at 185.
They fought 3 years ago. 2 completely different fights now.
That's why they have rematches.

Its not who they fought, but how they beat them.

Also, Tito did beat a great fighter in Vladimir Matyushenko. Matyushenko holds victories over Baby Nogueira and Pedro Rizzo.
Silva beat two very good but very much smaller fighters. Matyushenko is about the same size as Tito, and thats on fight night. Not just the weigh in.

Silva got rocked by Sakuraba the second time (he was losing that fight until Sakuraba got injuried). Even Tamura cut him and rocked him at least once. Silva has a habbit of dropping his hands and he cuts easily.

Thoses two facts alone make it clear he wouldn't beat Ortiz or Liddel.

As for Chuck/Tito, thats the fight. Its got to happen. I think Ortiz can win, as long as he stays close to Liddel in the clinch or on the ground.

Creed, I'll never know why you don't give Silva much credit for beating great fighters(Sak, thought to be unbeatable, Hendo, who you think is p4p the best) that he outweighs by the same margin Tito does fighting lesser opponents, but give Tito lots of credit.

Originally posted by Creed
Its not who they fought, but how they beat them.


Ok. Since fighting Tito, Silva has 2ko's(strikes), 7tko's(all beat downs, and a shoulder break), 1 decision(beat hendo into the ground) and a draw that could easily be seen as a win vs cro-cop.

Tito has 1sub, 2tko's(1 cause ken quit, other a cut), 1ko(freak slam ko), and 1 decision.

Sooooo..... Silva has been more impressive....
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Originally posted by Big-g
for god sakes Liddle is not the best striker in mma....Cro-cop is the best striker in MMA. Everyone says Silvas wild, have you seen him fight latly?...how "wild" did he look againts Cro-cop.

Let me just remind you, that the fight was under special rules if it was under pride rules wanderlei would kill cro-cop. wanderlei went for the ufc to fight Tito where tito earn a decision. its time tito goes for pride to fight him or at least chuck lidell fights wanderlei.

Maybe they should feed Ortiz a bunch of no name tomato cans so he can have a better record too......

As far as I remember is not wandelei the one that picks the fighters he will fight is dse.

Tito v.s. Otsuka!!!

Zuffa, make it happen!!

It would be better wanderlei vs. matsui and takada at the same time.

Another match up I would like to see is:

Bob Sapp v.s. The entire 145lbs Shooto division.

Silva will not have his belt after he fights the winner of Rampage Vs. Randleman......

In pride the only fighter for me capable of defeating wanderlei is non other than arona, its really strange why he isnt fighting wanderlei after he defeated ninja rua.

Originally posted by kaps
Maybe they should feed Ortiz a bunch of no name tomato cans so he can have a better record too......

Like Sinosic?

Tito would just have more decisions on his record. Guys like Otsuka, Tamura and Kanehara could last a gnp from Tito...
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Tito and wanderlei both of them have lost its now turn for lidell to be defeated he has a chance to defeat tito maybe, but Im sure he could not defeat wanderlei.

quinton, ninja rua, arona besides wanderlei could defeat him as it would be interesting to see another time lidell vs. randleman.

Liddell has lost before, to Horn. Tito has already won a fight against Silva. I dont understand why everyone thinks Silva is so great.......

Originally posted by kaps
Liddell has lost before, to Horn. Tito has already won a fight against Silva. I dont understand why everyone thinks Silva is so great.......

I like him because he's a really exciting fighter to watch. Every fight he has he goes balls to the wall and puts it on the line going for the knockout with soccerkicks, punches and knees, but at the same time he's a very cotrolled striker as he showed vs cro-cop. Not to many fighters have this mentality so I really respect him for it, that he can fight this way and win. He's bound to lose fighting the way he does, but that's what makes his fights even more exciting. Not to mention he's a genuine nice guy outside the ring.

I'm not saying he's the "best" fighter(ranking wise, too close to call between the three), but he'll always have my respect win or lose.
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Originally posted by Tanner Rhoden
Another match up I would like to see is:

Bob Sapp v.s. The entire 145lbs Shooto division.

watch godzilla 1

Originally posted by lightweight
I like him because he's a really exciting fighter to watch. Every fight he has he goes balls to the wall and puts it on the line going for the knockout with soccerkicks, punches and knees, but at the same time he's a very cotrolled striker as he showed vs cro-cop. Not to many fighters have this mentality so I really respect him for it, that he can fight this way and win. He's bound to lose fighting the way he does, but that's what makes his fights even more exciting. Not to mention he's a genuine nice guy outside the ring.

I'm not saying he's the "best" fighter(ranking wise, too close to call between the three), but he'll always have my respect win or lose.

The funny thing is, even though cro cop hurt him with thoses shots to the ribs, he was the only fighter that hasn't rocked Silva at one point during the match. Tamura, Ortiz, Sakuraba all stunned or leveled him at one point

Originally posted by Creed
Tamura, Ortiz, Sakuraba all stunned or leveled him at one point

But, Silva leveled or kayoed those guys worse so....
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Originally posted by lightweight
But, Silva leveled or kayoed those guys worse so....

Tito and Sakuraba are grapplers and Tamura shouldn't even be in the same ring with Silva.

So the fact all 3 rocked him says something about ethier a) his chin b)dropping his hands....or both

a)he's never been knocked out
b)who cares, everyone will make a mistake. How do you think Silva rocked Tito? How do you think Mezger rocked Liddell, or Liddell over Randleman?
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Originally posted by kaps
Liddell has lost before, to Horn. Tito has already won a fight against Silva. I dont understand why everyone thinks Silva is so great.......

He only lost a decision with ufc rules I dont think Tito could handle wanderlei under pride rules and if you dont understand why everyone thinks silva is so great just watch him fighting against dan henderson and many other fights, by far he is the most agressive fighters in mma today.

wanderlei has fought under true vale tudo rules and tito wont fight under those rules for sure but Im sure that with pride rules wanderlei could finish the job, beside wanderlei went for the ufc to fight tito, and tito never accepted to fight him in pride. And about wanderlei fighting only tomato cans he doesnt pick his opponents is dse there was a statement in surfway an mma page from brazil where he said he was very dissapointed when his fight against lidell wasnt done.( he said this approximately a year ago.)

Originally posted by Piedra
He only lost a decision with ufc rules I dont think Tito could handle wanderlei under pride rules and if you dont understand why everyone thinks silva is so great just watch him fighting against dan henderson and many other fights, by far he is the most agressive fighters in mma today.

wanderlei has fought under true vale tudo rules and tito wont fight under those rules for sure but Im sure that with pride rules wanderlei could finish the job, beside wanderlei went for the ufc to fight tito, and tito never accepted to fight him in pride. And about wanderlei fighting only tomato cans he doesnt pick his opponents is dse there was a statement in surfway an mma page from brazil where he said he was very dissapointed when his fight against lidell wasnt done.( he said this approximately a year ago.)

PRIDE rules, UFC rules. Its all bull****. The fact is that Tito beat Silva, and it was definitly a lop sided afair. Are you saying the Silva's sprawl as improved that much that Ortiz would now lose to him?

Creed: WEEEeeeEEEEEEeeee

Ortiz is twice the fighter now than he was when he beat Silva the first time.....

Ok, lets say that, but Tito will probably never be able to finish a fighter like Silva, but Silva could easily finish a fighter like him...
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How do you figure? I am not understanding how you are coming to this conclusion. If he could so easily finish off a Ortiz then why didnt he?

Silva knocks people out. If they had a rematch Tito would not be able to finish Silva other then by a fluke. His style lends itself well for decisions when facing tough fighters, but he has a weak stand up game. Silva could last a gnp just as well as he could knock him out.

He didn't knock Tito out but if you gave them 10 fights it would almost be garaunteed that any of Titos wins would be by decision, and Silvas by tko or ko.
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Originally posted by lightweight
Silva knocks people out. If they had a rematch Tito would not be able to finish Silva other then by a fluke. His style lends itself well for decisions when facing tough fighters, but he has a weak stand up game. Silva could last a gnp just as well as he could knock him out.

He didn't knock Tito out but if you gave them 10 fights it would almost be garaunteed that any of Titos wins would be by decision, and Silvas by tko or ko.

Tito is dealy on his feet. Not in the traditional stand-up game, I am definitly not saying that. Liddel and Silva both would kill him if he tried to trade punches and kicks.

Ortiz is a monster in the clinch. He throws huge knees, huge slams and he is so ****ing strong he can push other people around, including thoses at the same weight as himself. (Silva is probably only 5 or so lbs smaller than Ortiz at fight time).

Silva and Liddel would have to stay away and counter. Thats not Silva's game and it never will be. Even though he isn't nearly as wild as he used to be, he still likes to push the action.

Liddell on the other hand is an amazing counter puncher. This is why he is the only person with a chance against Ortiz at 205 right now. If Chuck fought perfect, he could K.O Ortiz. I'm not saying he would, I am just saying he is the only one with a serious chance.

Originally posted by lightweight
Silva knocks people out. If they had a rematch Tito would not be able to finish Silva other then by a fluke. His style lends itself well for decisions when facing tough fighters, but he has a weak stand up game. Silva could last a gnp just as well as he could knock him out.

He didn't knock Tito out but if you gave them 10 fights it would almost be garaunteed that any of Titos wins would be by decision, and Silvas by tko or ko.

Tito could cut Silva during the GnP and get a TKO, Silva couldnt stop Ortiz from taking him down......

Creed, good post, and valid points.

On the other hand with Silva, though, I think he would give Tito trouble if he brought an aggressive fight. Tito doesn't like getting hit and if Silva pressed him well I think Tito might submit, if he isn't knocked out first. Of course if Tito played it safe he would try and take Silva down for a decision which he could do, but like I said before, I don't think he can finish the likes of Silva or Liddell.

If Tito doesn't get knocked out by Liddell I think he'll get a decision at the most.
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i think Liddle would lose to Tito and Silva...Tito is gonna take him down a gnp him...well Silva in Pride would take it...he has improved more than anyone.

and everyoen knows how much i hate Tito, but he can take down CHuck...if he can take the janitor down he can take chuck down.

I dont think that Tito could finish Liddell, but I do believe that he could finish Silva by either TKO from cuts or maybe even KO from the GnP.....

On a side note, I wonder if how Chris feels about us hijacking this thread.....

Originally posted by kaps
Tito could cut Silva during the GnP and get a TKO, Silva couldnt stop Ortiz from taking him down......

Hooray for the cut stoppage!!!

That's not a proper stoppage in my eyes, knock him out or submit him. That's a finish. Cuts are pretty cheap.
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Originally posted by lightweight
Hooray for the cut stoppage!!!

That's not a proper stoppage in my eyes, knock him out or submit him. That's a finish. Cuts are pretty cheap.

Well it wouldnt take long after the cut till he couldnt see and get KOed anyway.....

why couldent he finsh chuck i dont get it....when Tito gets Chuck on his backChuck wont get back up. Silva would do better then you think man...ok in UFC mabey not but in Pride he would take it (imo)

Originally posted by kaps
Well it wouldnt take long after the cut till he couldnt see and get KOed anyway.....

Tito doesn't have the firepower to ko from gnp, and even if Silva did get a cut I don't think Tito would want to stand with him to get a ko so he'd get a decision at best.
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yeah Silva would end it if Tito wanted to throwdown. LOL did you see the roundhouse kick Tito tryed to do to Shammy...i can kick faster then that..(yes i no Tito would kick my ass)

Originally posted by lightweight
Hooray for the cut stoppage!!!

That's not a proper stoppage in my eyes, knock him out or submit him. That's a finish. Cuts are pretty cheap.

SOmetimes you need to stop a fight because of a cut. Ask Don Frye. He is lucky BJM stepped in when he did against Coleman.

Cut stoppages are only "cheap" if its not a bad cut, and its not in a dangerous place. If someone is cut over the eye and can't see out of that eye due to the blood flowing into it, the fight should be stopped.

This isn't mortal kombat, you don't fight until your dead.

but this guy would beat Tito, Chuck, and Silva

http://sherdog.com/fightfinder/pictures/arona_profile.jpg

if he could only finish.

Originally posted by Creed
SOmetimes you need to stop a fight because of a cut. Ask Don Frye. He is lucky BJM stepped in when he did against Coleman.

Cut stoppages are only "cheap" if its not a bad cut, and its not in a dangerous place. If someone is cut over the eye and can't see out of that eye due to the blood flowing into it, the fight should be stopped.

This isn't mortal kombat, you don't fight until your dead.

Yeah, I originally put in my post that bad cuts should obviously be stopped but I took it out because even if it is a bad cut I hate them. They suck. Like when Silva was beating Mariano but got cut and he lost a fight he should have won. It just seems so trivial, losing because of your skin...
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Originally posted by Big-g
if he could only finish.

lol, Arona is a good fighter, but he's in desperate need of some finishing power.
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Originally posted by lightweight
Tito doesn't have the firepower to ko from gnp, and even if Silva did get a cut I don't think Tito would want to stand with him to get a ko so he'd get a decision at best.

Its called a TKO. Basicly he would pound Silva or Liddel in the head until they weren't defending themselves.

People say Silva has never been K.Oed.

Bull****, you honestly think Vitor wouldn't of K.Oed him if he kept punching? The point of a TKO is a ref saying "Ok, you've gone to the point were he is going to beat your ass into the ground and I am going to stop it before he pounds you and eats your dinner"

Silva is 0-2 against top LHWs that are true LHWs. Henderson isn't a 205 fighter. He is a 185 fighter that fights at 205 because in PRIDE there is no 185 divison.

Silva needs to beat someone his own size that is at his level.

He beat Cro Cop? Big deal. Cro Cop isn't an MMA fighter. He was holding back because he was worried about being taken down. He knew he wasn't gonna submit Silva and thus NEEDED to keep it on his feet. So he holds back and works on his sprawl.

Silva should of finished him off. An MMA verteran can't finsh a man in his 4th MMA fight. So he would of won a decison. Whoop di ****ing do. It took him almost 3 rounds to finsih off Ostaka. And PRIDE has the 10 min first round. It took him almost 20 mins to defeat a pro wrestler. A 2 and whatever pro wrestler.

Your seriously telling me that he is better than Ortiz and Liddel? Come on man. Give me proof. How has SIlva improved? You think he is going to submit Ortiz? An armbar or triangle? You think his sprawl has improved that much that Tito wouldn't get him to the ground at all? Maybe he has profected the craine kick or dim mak?

I have met to hear one argument about how Silva is now better than Ortiz other than he JUST IS.

Ortiz on the other hand is now a much better fighter. Ricco, Fabio, Jackson all say his submissions are a 100x better. His cardio (the reason for his loss to Frank Shamrock) is now considered one of his strenghs. He is defintly the best in the clinch out of the top three. So he is somewhat weak in traditional stand-up, where the other two are very very strong. Are you saying that Silva are Liddel aren't any weaker on the ground than Ortiz is on his feet?

I'll beat you any sum of money Ortiz is more likely to K.O someone than Liddel or Silva is to submit or GnP Ortiz. We have proof of that. Look at Ortiz vs Silva!

My point is this. when you match up styles and strenghs and weaknesses, Ortiz comes out on top and Liddel is the only one that can match him. Silva likes to push the actions and that plays right into Titos hands because it gives him a chance to shoot if Silva comes in too strong and wild. It gives Liddel a great chance to counter. I am sorry, on paper Silva just doesn't seem to be up to par with Liddel or Ortiz.

And as for Liddel vs Ortiz well, Chuck could win. If he sprawls well, gets up as soon as he does get taken down, and can punish Ortiz for trying to shoot, he can win. He will have to fight perfect, but he CAN do it.

However, I think Tito is good enough on his feet that he can protect himself until he gets closer enough for a takedown or can get into a clinch. Then its Titos game. Its hurting time

Well, he hasn't been kayoed. If the Belfort fight went on he would have been knocked out, but then so would everyone else in the world, so it's a moot point. He hasn't been proper knocked out in an mma fight.

-----

You think it's no big deal he beat cro-cop? You suggest a lhw that could fight a heavyweight like cro-cop, survive standing, and actually beat him. Liddell you say? Cro-cop would know the whole fight would stay standing, charge forward and drop him. Tito? He would freak out and just try takedowns, and eventually get knocked out(if he would even take the fight, but cro-cops not 20lbs lighter so forget it). Silva is the only fighter that deserves the respect cro-cop gave him.

When's Tito going to fight someone his own size? ie a heavyweight...

Silva fighting cro-cop is pretty much the equivalent of Tito fighting Fedor(if fedor had no stand up, pure wrestling and strikes on the ground), someone who's more dangerous at his own game, and heavier/stronger. Would Tito win this fight, let alone take it? No. Until he takes a fight like that don't complain to me about silva vs cro-cop.

-----

Silva's jui-jitsu skills are always moving up, he now has three more years experience under his belt. His striking has become more effective, and his control has gone to another level, and his cardio has always been a strong point. Tito now has a neck crank that's "100%" better. Congratulations.

-----

Tito doesn't have the heart to stand with Silva or Liddell. All he is is gnp, because it's easier. There's no risk to him, he lacks the heart to trade, or to risk position with subs.

In the end I do respect Tito. He's a very good fighter, but his style of fighting leaves me wanting more. Silva shows heart, as well as great skill, but for some reason you don't seem to think he's worth the ground he walks on.
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Originally posted by lightweight
Well, he hasn't been kayoed. If the Belfort fight went on he would have been knocked out, but then so would everyone else in the world, so it's a moot point. He hasn't been proper knocked out in an mma fight.

-----

You think it's no big deal he beat cro-cop? You suggest a lhw that could fight a heavyweight like cro-cop, survive standing, and actually beat him. Liddell you say? Cro-cop would know the whole fight would stay standing, charge forward and drop him. Tito? He would freak out and just try takedowns, and eventually get knocked out(if he would even take the fight, but cro-cops not 20lbs lighter so forget it). Silva is the only fighter that deserves the respect cro-cop gave him.

When's Tito going to fight someone his own size? ie a heavyweight...

Silva fighting cro-cop is pretty much the equivalent of Tito fighting Fedor(if fedor had no stand up, pure wrestling and strikes on the ground), someone who's more dangerous at his own game, and heavier/stronger. Would Tito win this fight, let alone take it? No. Until he takes a fight like that don't complain to me about silva vs cro-cop.

-----

Silva's jui-jitsu skills are always moving up, he now has three more years experience under his belt. His striking has become more effective, and his control has gone to another level, and his cardio has always been a strong point. Tito now has a neck crank that's "100%" better. Congratulations.

-----

Tito doesn't have the heart to stand with Silva or Liddell. All he is is gnp, because it's easier. There's no risk to him, he lacks the heart to trade, or to risk position with subs.

In the end I do respect Tito. He's a very good fighter, but his style of fighting leaves me wanting more. Silva shows heart, as well as great skill, but for some reason you don't seem to think he's worth the ground he walks on.

Frankly, the fact you think that Chuck would not try to take Cro Cop down is stupid. Silva tried to take him down several times. He just stood with him quite a bit but he DID take him down when it suited him.

Also, Ortiz has beaten three people close to his size. Silva and Vlad and some dude by the name of Shamrock. Vlad is a HW, and a pretty good one which he proved by beating Rizzo.

Silva has fought people smalled than himself. Cro Crop wasn't that much bigger than Silva. Cro Crop and Ortiz are about the same size and Silva's not that much smaller. However, take a look at this list.

Silva=Tamura, Cro Crop, Sakuraba, Henderson and Kanahara (sp?)
Ortiz=Sinosic, Vlad, Shamrock, Tanner and Kundo

Do you see a major differnece in the weight of the other fighters? I don't

Originally posted by Creed

Also, Ortiz has beaten three people close to his size. Silva and Vlad and some dude by the name of Shamrock. Vlad is a HW, and a pretty good one which he proved by beating Rizzo.

Silva has fought people smalled than himself. Cro Crop wasn't that much bigger than Silva. Cro Crop and Ortiz are about the same size and Silva's not that much smaller. However, take a look at this list.

Silva=Tamura, Cro Crop, Sakuraba, Henderson and Kanahara (sp?)
Ortiz=Sinosic, Vlad, Shamrock, Tanner and Kundo

Do you see a major differnece in the weight of the other fighters? I don't

Ok, everyone beats smaller guys, but Silva has beaten at least 13 guys his size, 4 being noticeably bigger. Arsdale-15lbs, Schrijber-40, Mezger-10, Filipovic-10(at the time, Silva was 215).

And you say cro-cop and Tito are about the same size? I'd agree with that. So if Silva is fighting at 203(his last fight), and Tito at 220-225(cro-cops weight), and you say there's not much weight difference between their opponents Tito's getting a 20lb weight advantage...that's a whole weightclass seperating them.

Tito's never beaten someone bigger, stronger then himself, if everyone else is content with him powering over smaller guys then sure, he's a great champ. I think he would fair well in in the heavyweight division, but I don't think he'd ever do it.
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Originally posted by lightweight
Ok, everyone beats smaller guys, but Silva has beaten at least 13 guys his size, 4 being noticeably bigger. Arsdale-15lbs, Schrijber-40, Mezger-10, Filipovic-10(at the time, Silva was 215).

And you say cro-cop and Tito are about the same size? I'd agree with that. So if Silva is fighting at 203(his last fight), and Tito at 220-225(cro-cops weight), and you say there's not much weight difference between their opponents Tito's getting a 20lb weight advantage...that's a whole weightclass seperating them.

Tito's never beaten someone bigger, stronger then himself, if everyone else is content with him powering over smaller guys then sure, he's a great champ. I think he would fair well in in the heavyweight division, but I don't think he'd ever do it.

Of cours Ortiz has never beaten anyone stronger than himself. There ISN'T anyone stronger than himself. They guy is a freak. BTW, Cro Cop is No where near 225 man. Somewhere in the 210-215 mark. Ortiz fights around 220 on fight night.

Also, the way you talk about weight cutting, you'd think Ortiz was the only one doing it. Silva and Liddel both cut weight. Not as much as Tito, but they do it. Tito cuts about 15 lbs. Liddel and Silva cut around 10.

Is 5 lbs REALLY that much?

Wow. This is probably the best thread I've ever seen in this MMA forum.

Just a couple small things to add. In responce to Creed saying the Ortiz/Silva fight was "lopsided" is far from the truth. It was a pretty close fight.

And do you think that if Silva was UFC LHW champion, that he'd sign on the dotted line to fight Liddell? He'd do it in an instant. Ortiz's BS about wanting to be "injury free" is a huge farce. He fought Shamrock in November. It was projected for the Ortiz/Liddell fight to be in April. How long does the man need to recover from a fight? I mean, it's not like Shamrock pounded the **** out of him or anything. Ortiz is just holding out for more money, plain and simple.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Liddell take his head off when they fight, in case you hadn't figured it out yet. ;)

Originally posted by Creed
Of cours Ortiz has never beaten anyone stronger than himself. There ISN'T anyone stronger than himself. They guy is a freak. BTW, Cro Cop is No where near 225 man. Somewhere in the 210-215 mark. Ortiz fights around 220 on fight night.

Also, the way you talk about weight cutting, you'd think Ortiz was the only one doing it. Silva and Liddel both cut weight. Not as much as Tito, but they do it. Tito cuts about 15 lbs. Liddel and Silva cut around 10.

Is 5 lbs REALLY that much?


I really don't see where you get the idea that Ortiz is a "freak" as far as strenght is concerned. Kevin Randleman has gotta be way stronger than Ortiz. Randleman fought as a heavyweight for years, and had no problem slamming guys like Rizzo.

And Cro Cop has been at or around 225 for all his MMA fights. The guy is a beast. I just don't think Ortiz has beaten the level of competition that Liddell has, or even Silva for that matter. Sure Silva has beaten a lot of tomato can guys, but he's also soundly beaten Henderson and Sakuraba TWICE.

Originally posted by Creed
Of cours Ortiz has never beaten anyone stronger than himself. There ISN'T anyone stronger than himself. They guy is a freak. BTW, Cro Cop is No where near 225 man. Somewhere in the 210-215 mark. Ortiz fights around 220 on fight night.

Also, the way you talk about weight cutting, you'd think Ortiz was the only one doing it. Silva and Liddel both cut weight. Not as much as Tito, but they do it. Tito cuts about 15 lbs. Liddel and Silva cut around 10.

Is 5 lbs REALLY that much?

Are you trying make it sound like a good thing Tito hasn't fought somone equal, or bigger in size?

If the weight really doesn't matter to you, you think Tito would do just as well if he was 205 and Silva was 220 like in their fight? Tito would be a stain on the mat.
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trichome (http://trichomes.org)

Ok for those who assume Tito is a better fighter than Silva then it should be a fight in pride this time with different rules than ufc, with that I mean knees allowed in the ground and kicks to a downed opponent. if this happens and Tito wins is the only way to say Tito is a better fighter than wanderlei silva; if not anything will be only an speculation.

I agree with creed that both Liddell and Ortiz can beat Silva. I think that Arona probably could eek out a decision win against him too.

Tito would be even more dangerous with knees......

I agree that Tito could be more dangerous with knees but wanderlei has been fighting under pride rules for so long and Tito hasnt so I only pick wanderlei by the expirience but anything could happen in a fight like this even a 1 minute ko or a quick ref stoppage.

The simple fact is that Ortiz beat Silva. He beat him convicingly (even if it was a boring match)

It was a very questionable decision anyway he won ok but now its time for Tito, Chuck or Arona to fight Wanderlei. I hope if theres a new administration in pride lidell fights wanderlei instead of the winner of quinton vs. randleman.

Originally posted by Piedra
It was a very questionable decision anyway he won ok but now its time for Tito, Chuck or Arona to fight Wanderlei. I hope if theres a new administration in pride lidell fights wanderlei instead of the winner of quinton vs. randleman.

Questionable? Did you see the fight?

He won 4 rounds to 1. How can you question that?

I saw the fight long ago but I could tell you that the points given to Tito were due to the takedowns and not for agression so as I been posting another fight must be done in order to say Tito is the best in the world at his division.

Originally posted by Piedra
I saw the fight long ago but I could tell you that the points given to Tito were due to the takedowns and not for agression so as I been posting another fight must be done in order to say Tito is the best in the world at his division.

This is MMA. Points are given for takedowns. I fail to see your point

Originally posted by Creed
This is MMA. Points are given for takedowns. I fail to see your point

But like Bas says, it should be scored against you if you don't do anything with it, Tito had a very unagressive fight, he couldn't even open a cut in the five rounds.
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Z500/Z550 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Kawasaki_Z500/Z550)

Originally posted by lightweight
But like Bas says, it should be scored against you if you don't do anything with it, Tito had a very unagressive fight, he couldn't even open a cut in the five rounds.

Yes, but if you remember, Silva did nothing ethier. Bas said that takedowns should count against you if the guy on the bottom is more active.

The fact is NEITHER of them had a good fight, neither one of them was in top forum.

However, Ortiz won, and won pretty clearly

Assuming Tito is a better fighter just becaused he earned a not so convincing decision for me, is like saying elvis sinosic is a better fighter than jeremy horn because he submitted him and since lidell lost to horn long long ago the conclusion would be sinosic is better than lidell. Or that just because 20 ufc s ago frank shamrock beaten ortiz he would be a better fighter these days.

The only way for me and I guess for a lot of fans to prove that Tito is better than Wanderelei is to have them fighting again but this time with pride rules.

Tito did **** all in that fight. Taking someone down and laying on them is NOT a convincing win, even if he did take it 4 rounds to 1. Real close fight that really didn't answer any questions. A rematch probably would.

Silva inflicted the only damage in that fight. He dropped Ortiz. Tito never did anything like that to Silva.

I think Tanks quote fits in nicely with the Silva vs Tito fight,

“I don’t like to lose that way, but I am not too sure I would want to win that way either.”