After watching last nights great action but skilless UFC 71, id like to say im kinda apalude by the backerz of UFC who even try to compare it to boxing. The UFC is nothing more then like many have said before me, human ****fighting, where basically two athlethese men or women fight til 1 is KOed or sumbitted and besides the submission aspect of the sport many fighters drop like flys by the rounds, minutes and as in more then 1 instant yesterday the second! And as entertaing as it can be it really lacks the skill, creativity and overall ora of a genuine boxing match, many fighters though called masters look like nothing more then clueless children throwing punches on there feet, while some make the KOs they administer look brillant, there seems to be more raw aggression associated with it rather then skill! The submissions are great but who wants to see grown men tapping out, other then from a Kurt Angel ankle lock! And also many fights are prematurely stopped and dont live up to there potential becuz of the immediate impact of some shots that knock fighters down but rather then counting fighters out or giving standing 8s, fighter are immediatley jumped on and if hit enough stopped when in many instances they are still able to defend themselves!

Now watch a classic Boxing brawl and the action is timeless and alot of times lasts more then 48 seconds! Now im not tryin to knock the UFC becuz i was and still am intrigued like many others, **** i paid 39.95 for what id liek to think of as a great action packed evening, but was disappointed on the lackluster length of action many fights where! and dont think any 5 min 3-5 round fight, can be better then say a 10 or 12 round fight where you have to stay on your feet!
Now im about a 100% sure any of are top boxer could take on and beat any UFC fighter as many of them try to stand up and box (strike) themselves and look horrid at it! Din Thomas vs Floyd Mayweather Floyd would paralaze the dude!

After watching last nights great action but skilless UFC 71, id like to say im kinda apalude by the backerz of UFC who even try to compare it to boxing. The UFC is nothing more then like many have said before me, human ****fighting, where basically two athlethese men or women fight til 1 is KOed or sumbitted and besides the submission aspect of the sport many fighters drop like flys by the rounds, minutes and as in more then 1 instant yesterday the second! And as entertaing as it can be it really lacks the skill, creativity and overall ora of a genuine boxing match, many fighters though called masters look like nothing more then clueless children throwing punches on there feet, while some make the KOs they administer look brillant, there seems to be more raw aggression associated with it rather then skill! The submissions are great but who wants to see grown men tapping out, other then from a Kurt Angel ankle lock! And also many fights are prematurely stopped and dont live up to there potential becuz of the immediate impact of some shots that knock fighters down but rather then counting fighters out or giving standing 8s, fighter are immediatley jumped on and if hit enough stopped when in many instances they are still able to defend themselves!

Now watch a classic Boxing brawl and the action is timeless and alot of times lasts more then 48 seconds! Now im not tryin to knock the UFC becuz i was and still am intrigued like many others, **** i paid 39.95 for what id liek to think of as a great action packed evening, but was disappointed on the lackluster length of action many fights where! and dont think any 5 min 3-5 round fight, can be better then say a 10 or 12 round fight where you have to stay on your feet!
Now im about a 100% sure any of are top boxer could take on and beat any UFC fighter as many of them try to stand up and box (strike) themselves and look horrid at it! Din Thomas vs Floyd Mayweather Floyd would paralaze the dude!

One thing i noticed is UFC fighters get VERY tired in the first round,they gas out too quik

They get tired and drop to the floor for an hour hugging and holding
Like watching John ruiz and ricky hatton fight on the floor..

I agree the main event didn't apparently display much technique but it was there. Once your more familiar with MMA submissions and techniques you'll have a much greater appreciation for there skill.

Some fights to check out for skill:
Cro-Cop vs Vanderlei Silva
Parisyan vs Diego Sanchez
Cro-Cop vs Gonzaga
Sakuraba vs Renzo Gracie
Rampage Jackson vs Aurora

One thing i noticed is UFC fighters get VERY tired in the first round,they gas out too quik


yeah i almost puked watching how crude that chris leben guy was.... wasted all his energy in the 1st round with nothing but ineffective aggression and wide winging punches.... and then he has the nerve to grab the mic and say

"screw the judges, screw everything, i won the fight, what do the people think??"

and he got booed, lol

he had only himself to blame, if he fought smart hed have won easily cause the other guy wasnt gonna take it to him.

its not that they have no skill....
its that most are grapplers, but fight on their feet anyway.

and us boxing fans accustomed to the high boxing skill levels see two grapplers trying to box, and think wow, these guys suck ass. Also they do stall a lot on the ground.
MMA is one of those sports that have impressive finishes or moments, but for big portions of time nothing major happens.

It depends on the fights though...!
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ufc bores me.

it's funny to me when i hear some boxers claiming mma fighters have no skill. If that is the case, why dont the boxers prove their skills by fighting the mma fighter in an mma match ? chances are they will be embarrassed and shown how their so-called elite boxing skill is not enough to beat an elite mma fighter. there's no doubt that they have better striking skill as that is the only they train for but that is wayyy too 1-dimension to be able to compete in mma. there are alot more than just striking when it comes to fighting. Hopkins, Mayweather, Taylor... will all get owned in mma. fact!

it's funny to me when i hear some boxers claiming mma fighters have no skill. If that is the case, why dont the boxers prove their skills by fighting the mma fighter in an mma match ? chances are they will be embarrassed and shown how their so-called elite boxing skill is not enough to beat an elite mma fighter. there's no doubt that they have better striking skill as that is the only they train for but that is wayyy too 1-dimension to be able to compete in mma. there are alot more than just striking when it comes to fighting. Hopkins, Mayweather, Taylor... will all get owned in mma. fact!
who cares, ALL mma fighters get owned in mma, other than Fedor! FACT
and most all mma fighters would get owned by the lowest journeyman in boxing, also fact. so whats your point?

and mma fighters would lose against a top notch weapon-using fighter...thats means theyre inferior :ugh: some mma fans need to wake up and realize that mma does not=a real street fight.
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it's funny to me when i hear some boxers claiming mma fighters have no skill. If that is the case, why dont the boxers prove their skills by fighting the mma fighter in an mma match ? chances are they will be embarrassed and shown how their so-called elite boxing skill is not enough to beat an elite mma fighter. there's no doubt that they have better striking skill as that is the only they train for but that is wayyy too 1-dimension to be able to compete in mma. there are alot more than just striking when it comes to fighting. Hopkins, Mayweather, Taylor... will all get owned in mma. fact!


haha not really about 80% or more of MMA guys try to stand on there feet what makes you think theyll change with B_hop in front of them, if chuck can KO MMA fighters like he does why couldn't B_hop, im pretty sure B_hop can sprawl and he already keeps his hands up to block punches why couldnt he block a kick and KO 1 of the bastards right quick! MMA is nothing more then fighting im sure B_hop can lock up and slam motha****as too, and would have 1 hell of a standup game plus know how to kick back and ground and pound motha****as

Im tired of giving long reasons to why you guys are wrong som Im just going to be curt.

There is plenty of skill involved in the UFC.

Even though I am not a fan, MMA obviously requires skill.

MMA fighters would not very long in a boxing match and boxers would not last very long in a MMA match. They are two different sports.

There are a lot of UFC/MMA guys that have terrible hand form.

That said, if anybody watched PRIDE, there were many kick-boxers that had nice form.
Boxers are not going to like getting kicked.


Also, somebody already mentioned, FEDOR.

Its hard to have nice technique when you have to worry about punches AND kicks. You cant just walk in there like an amatuer boxer, or you will get taken down. Their technique looks different for a reason.

Every timei watch ufc i see that they have no skill, Hey you've got the ufc poster boy chuck liddel getting ko'd by someone who wouldn't last 30 seconds with any decent boxer it shows it for what it is and that is street fighting with juiced up bodybuilders. :boxing:

Its hard to have nice technique when you have to worry about punches AND kicks. You cant just walk in there like an amatuer boxer, or you will get taken down. Their technique looks different for a reason.

Yes, I know this, but there are guys in there that throw horrible looking punches.

You want to talk about worrying about punches and kicks? well then you should not be throwing wide punches that are stiff, should you?

Boxers learn how to throw explosive punches that are tight in order to get back to protecting yourself.

Maybe it is because a lot of these guys are really slow when they punched or maybe it is everything included.


This is why Chuck got caught yesterday and this is why a lot of those guys get caught. But hey, everybody can be caught, even the most skilled, so no need to bother.


Of course your stand changes in MMA, but this does not mean you have to have poor technique.

If you want to argue that you do not have time to practice fist striking form because you have other things to worry about like wrestling/grappling, kicks, etc. time, OK, I agree.

Boxing fans need to stop bashing MMA until a top fighter goes over to MMA and proves he can win at a high level.


And for the response about no MMA fighter can last in boxing, so what, we are trying to simulate something closer to what nature provided you with, which is what is closer to a "real fight"

I honestly can't believe that I have to respond to any of this since I have always been more of a boxing fan than a MMA fan, but ignorant statements call for response.

Since PRIDE has been bought by UFC we can include this for proof of skill.

Although I hear some of the fighters are suing to get out of their contracts

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How can you say there is no skill involved with being successful in the UFC? Most, if not all fighters, are well versed in a number of matrial arts disciplines, such as the following:


Brazillian Jui-jitsu
Judo
Muay Thai Kickboxing
many versions of Kempo incuding Nippon Kempo, Shorinji Kempo, and Kiyojute Ryu Kempo
Sambo


All of these take years and years of training to master...and once you are a black belt in one...you still have to mix it with others to be effective in an MMA fight.

I'm suprised at how close minded some people are on here.

Every timei watch ufc i see that they have no skill, Hey you've got the ufc poster boy chuck liddel getting ko'd by someone who wouldn't last 30 seconds with any decent boxer it shows it for what it is and that is street fighting with juiced up bodybuilders. :boxing:

Why does it always got to be about MMA fighters not lasting long in a boxing match? Why don't we see if a boxer can last long in an MMA match.

This argument is really getting old. They are two different sports.

Why does it always got to be about MMA fighters not lasting long in a boxing match? Why don't we see if a boxer can last long in an MMA match.

This argument is really getting old. They are two different sports.

Actually, if you really think about it, it is only one sport: FIGHTING.

The difference is that boxing has more regulations since it does not allow for kicks, knees, elbows, and grappling.

Actually, if you really think about it, it is only one sport: FIGHTING.

The difference is that boxing has more regulations since it does not allow for kicks, knees, elbows, and grappling.
And that's why it is a tougher sport than boxing. I love boxing for so many reasons....but I hate when people say the UFC is glorified street fighting or whatever. You have to train harder in so many more ways for a single opponent in the UFC. You also don't get points for "just throwing punches" like in boxing. A fighter has to be well rounded and well conditioned to make any impact in the UFC.

This argument is really getting old. They are two different sports.

amen man, may as well be comparing basketball and baseball, im tired of it, i dont have a problem with MMA but i will never spend a dollar to see it, its just too anti-climactic for my taste.

The thing I love about the UFC is this:

You may not have a 12 round slugfest like Gatti vs. Ward.......but at least at the end of the day something is ALWAYS resolved. There is a clear winner. You don't have weeks of arguments like "FLOYD WON" "NO OSCAR DID", etc. Yo uknow who won. Somebody either tapped, got KTFO, or clearly won a decision. There is rarely, if ever, controversy.

Also, to my point....how often do we actually get great fights in boxing? Gatti v. Ward or Corrales v. Castillo only come around so often. Sure, there are plenty of good fights to be seen...but more **** fights than great fights.

I dont think thats true. MMA seems almost totaly random in the outcome of fights. Nothing gets resolved. You just come away from alot of MMA fights with a lame taste in your mouth.

Alot of the excitment with MMA has to do with the commentators. If boxing had commentators like that, who were constantly screaming and being excited, alot of fights would be alot more exciting.

Instead we have Jim Lampley and company bashing fighters and generaly being downers in a fight. Good commentary can save alot of otherwise ordinary fights. That is what the UFC has is exciting commentary. If you watch UFC with the sound off, it is perhaps the lamest thing in the world.

It honestly resembles a cripple fight. Skill wise, BJJ is not as difficult as people make it out to be. Its alot easier to become good at than boxing. If you have ever actualy been to a BJJ gym, alot of the time required to move up in rank is due to gym politics, and not the difficulty in learning the skills.

Gatti Ward was 10 rounds. lol

and what are you talking about, plenty of fights go to decision. and there have been tons of controversial fights, and even robberies, although not as bad as boxing admittedly.

mma has good finishes and moments, but inbetween, its mostly just spots of nothingness. I just dont get why the casual UFC fans go wild when two guys 'slug it out' as they say rather than go to the ground, when thats the whole damn point of boxing, except with better punchers in there.

saying MMA is tougher is just stupid. it depends on the fights and fighters.
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lol, you're right, it was only 10 rounds...wel 30 rounds if you add them up....but still, you get my point.

i watch both boxing and ufc religously, and in my opinion, there is always resolution.

also, until you've actually competed in some martial art, how can you comment on how easy or hard it is? I've been training and competing in Judo for 7 years, wrestled all 4 years of high school, and I'm telling you, ****'s not easy. Think what you want, but until youve been in an arm bar or rendered unconcious on the mat, i don't really think you know what you;re talking about.

it's funny to me when i hear some boxers claiming mma fighters have no skill. If that is the case, why dont the boxers prove their skills by fighting the mma fighter in an mma match ? chances are they will be embarrassed and shown how their so-called elite boxing skill is not enough to beat an elite mma fighter. there's no doubt that they have better striking skill as that is the only they train for but that is wayyy too 1-dimension to be able to compete in mma. there are alot more than just striking when it comes to fighting. Hopkins, Mayweather, Taylor... will all get owned in mma. fact!

And every one of you stupid grappling ***gots would get owned boxing. What are you trying to prove? I, personally, find it hilarious that anytime someone wants to show how COOL, EXCITING, and SKILLED MMA is they always bring boxing up into it and knock it. Dana White and Joe Rogan do it daily, as if that's there only way to make UFC look better. Both are ****ing idiots and almost the entire fanbase that does NOT practice MMA but rather just watches it and then wrestles around in there backyards like ****ing homos are stupid.

who cares, ALL mma fighters get owned in mma, other than Fedor! FACT
and most all mma fighters would get owned by the lowest journeyman in boxing, also fact. so whats your point?

and mma fighters would lose against a top notch weapon-using fighter...thats means theyre inferior :ugh: some mma fans need to wake up and realize that mma does not=a real street fight.

not true brother! 99.9 % of all street fights end up on the floor (known fact) that is why the Brazilian art of Nu-Ji-Tsu (Grappling) won in the "Battle of the Masters" of Martial Arts. It beat the Karate Master with ease, Kung-fu, Kick Boxer, Tae-Kwon-Do, and many respectable art forms were proven to be beatable by the Nu-ji-Tsu Master. Boxing, however, did have the greater force of impact on the head, with a strike of the hands (arms). To say that a Boxer can take out a Martial Artist is an overstatement. Remember that a Boxer CAN NOT grab his opponent, while his opponent uses every part of his body.

no, the point is, that in a street fight, you can get stabbed or shot. Or attacked by multiple people. MMA does not equal a street fight. Neither is boxing...there are WAY too many variables in a street fight, and when it gets down to it, mma has just as many rules and conditions as boxing.

and other guy, punchers chance, ive done my share of the other arts too. Wrestling especially is hard as hell. But going 12 rounds getting hit and punching with only short 1 minute breaks is WAY more of a strain on the body...Its straining enough not even going that many rounds.

There are ways to stall and get a break in each sport. It all depends on how intense the match is. There is no absolute.
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Herbal vaporizers (http://vaporizers.net/)

The thing I love about the UFC is this:

You may not have a 12 round slugfest like Gatti vs. Ward.......but at least at the end of the day something is ALWAYS resolved. There is a clear winner. You don't have weeks of arguments like "FLOYD WON" "NO OSCAR DID", etc. Yo uknow who won. Somebody either tapped, got KTFO, or clearly won a decision. There is rarely, if ever, controversy.

Also, to my point....how often do we actually get great fights in boxing? Gatti v. Ward or Corrales v. Castillo only come around so often. Sure, there are plenty of good fights to be seen...but more **** fights than great fights.


I disagree. We've already had fights like Miranda vs Pavlik, Mormeck vs Bell, Marquez vs Barrera, R Marques vs Vasquez, Mijares vs Arce, Kessler vs Andrade and this is just off the top of my head and some of the more popular fighters. How many of those have we had in the UFC this year?

i guess more ppl like to watch no skill rather than skill...hmmm seems kinda odd

plenty of skill involved in ufc...totally disagree with that...i'm a fan of both...mu'****as shouldn't get so butt hurt

I kinda agree with greatest,ufc jus looks like street fighting.I mean if some1 is on a ground,knowing skills or not.your going to try to tug on something. I won district champion my first year of high school wrestling,and I really didnt know **** about it,I just used brute strength.

the thing about mma organizations like ufc is that the fighters work on too many things and don't really master one craft.

there are some skilled grapplers in mma, but the striking and takedowns leave a lot to be desired from my observations.

ichi the killer was a great movie.

i'm a fan of the Sweet Science.

**** off with all this insecure ****, it looks terrible, go to sherdog and do it

If they have no skill, I'll say it again, go to an MMA gym and drop a challenge. See how YOU would do against an MMA guy.

Also, did any of you bashers even WATCH the last show? Did you Karo Parisyen(the Judo guy). How you can say that those slick Judo throws require no skill is an idiotic statement. That was pure, beautiful technique, not brute strength.

If they have no skill, I'll say it again, go to an MMA gym and drop a challenge. See how YOU would do against an MMA guy.

Also, did any of you bashers even WATCH the last show? Did you Karo Parisyen(the Judo guy). How you can say that those slick Judo throws require no skill is an idiotic statement. That was pure, beautiful technique, not brute strength.

To say there is no skill in MMA is just rediculous, i'll have to agree with that.

can you imagine a skilled boxer's hand speed, power and precision with 4oz gloves on? A Wild looping punch throwing UFC fighter would get their face CRACKED in a standing scrap with a top tier boxer. All a boxer would have to do is learn how to kick a soccer ball and he'd be ready for the UFC.

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Yes. No skill at all.

I lot of lucky shots can land, but rest assured, mixed martial arts fighting takes serious skill.

it's funny to me when i hear some boxers claiming mma fighters have no skill. If that is the case, why dont the boxers prove their skills by fighting the mma fighter in an mma match ? chances are they will be embarrassed and shown how their so-called elite boxing skill is not enough to beat an elite mma fighter. there's no doubt that they have better striking skill as that is the only they train for but that is wayyy too 1-dimension to be able to compete in mma. there are alot more than just striking when it comes to fighting. Hopkins, Mayweather, Taylor... will all get owned in mma. fact!

Look at it in the context of the fight. The grappler may have an advantage, just because of the science of fighting, but that does not mean that what they do involves more skill than a boxer.

Look at it in the context of the fight. The grappler may have an advantage, just because of the science of fighting, but that does not mean that what they do involves more skill than a boxer.

Actually, both techniques are quite even. Both think a certain amount of steps ahead of doing a certain action. Both have basic defense and offense plans. Both believe in maximum efficency through minimum effort.

The only difference is the understanding of Physiology. While strikers focus on nerve points and resperation, grapplers tend to focus on joins, ligaments and circulation.

You my friend need to learn a bit more before you talk. If you think MMA doesn't need skills, I beg you to differ and learn some fact.

Do you know a lot of MMA stars are world class kickboxing, wrestling, Judo, Karate, Sambo, BJJ athletes? MMA combines all those martial arts so you really have to be well rounded in striking, clinch, sprawl, GNP and submission to be successful.

People keeps comparing boxing to MMA but it's like comparing apple to orange. Of course a seasoned boxer will beat a seasoned MMA artist in boxing. The same thing applies if you put the boxer in the octagon but think about it.

Take a MMA artist and a boxer, make them compete in a different martial arts. I can guarantee you that the MMA artist will dominate the boxer in more Martial Art. A boxer is trained to boxe and strike, they are done once it hits the ground.

Boxing blinded die hard fan tend to critize MMA striking and comparing to boxers but they don't understand that MMA stance and boxing stance aren't the same thing. A boxer stance in MMA will make any MMA artist salivate because it offers so many options for a take down.

As a fan of all fighting sports I tried to educate myself in an objective way. And to me, MMA is like chess while boxing checkers. MMA is where all the art comes together and you have way more options.

And please, stop referring MMA to only UFC because UFC is only an organization. Learn your facts, open your eyes, take some fresh air and accept the truth.

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Yes. No skill at all.

who does the song?

It honestly resembles a cripple fight. Skill wise, BJJ is not as difficult as people make it out to be. Its alot easier to become good at than boxing. If you have ever actualy been to a BJJ gym, alot of the time required to move up in rank is due to gym politics, and not the difficulty in learning the skills.

BJJ easy to become good?

To become a world class BJJ you have to dedicate as much in training as in boxing.

These ignorant post makes me sick.

How can you say there is no skill involved with being successful in the UFC? Most, if not all fighters, are well versed in a number of matrial arts disciplines, such as the following:


Brazillian Jui-jitsu
Judo
Muay Thai Kickboxing
many versions of Kempo incuding Nippon Kempo, Shorinji Kempo, and Kiyojute Ryu Kempo
Sambo


All of these take years and years of training to master...and once you are a black belt in one...you still have to mix it with others to be effective in an MMA fight.

I'm suprised at how close minded some people are on here.

But they are NOT "masters" at those respective disciplines. Just merely "good" at all of them.

Like I said, in boxing, you actually have to MASTER the art form to be a world champion, while in MMA you just have to be good at many martial art forms.

I have to lol at that posts that says to move up in bjj rankings it's mostly about gym politics. What the fu9k, homie? lol

But they are NOT "masters" at those respective disciplines. Just merely "good" at all of them.

Like I said, in boxing, you actually have to MASTER the art form to be a world champion, while in MMA you just have to be good at many martial art forms.

Boy oh Boy you are so Wrong!!!

Karo is a worldclass Judoka

BJ Penn, Gonzaga are worldclass BJJ artist

Fedor is a worldclass Sambo artist

Hunt and Crocop are K1 champs

Lindland is an olympic medalist.

The list can go on...

You are so wrong but you know whats ironic about this? Gonzaga may be a BJJ mundial champ but his BJJ in MMA is not as good as Nogueira. You see alot of MMA top notch guys are worldclass champs in their MA and have to adapt it in different situation. Hunt is a better kickboxer than Crocop but Crocop adapted himself to MMA and Hunt still has a bit of work to do.

You boxing die hard fan need to get your head out of your pants and see that Boxing isn't everything and there are way more discipline to learn.

No **** about BJJ rankings, on average it takes 10 years to get a Black Belt in it. Just to get a Blue Belt(the 1st colored belt) takes 6 months to 3 years on average. It took me about 2 years to get my Blue.

I absolutely DETEST UFC :peeright:

Where boxing is about skill, strategy, physical conditioning and plain old guts, UFC represents everything that is wrong with modern society.

Loudmouth, crass poseurs with stupid, stupid haircuts and schoolyard nicknames, prancing about whooping and yelling pre and post-fight to the strains of cheesy gangsta-rap.

The "sport" itself is obscene to watch. All the dirty moves that were completely taboo in a streetfight in my day, are applauded on this crap.

And as for hitting a defenceless fighter when he's down......

Whilst I'm on a rant - maybe you guys can enlighten me as to how that idiotic, overused, ubiquitous "Owned" expression came about. That just sucks soooooo much.

Judo and Sambo is what's wrong with society?

I absolutely DETEST UFC :peeright:

Where boxing is about skill, strategy, physical conditioning and plain old guts, UFC represents everything that is wrong with modern society.

Loudmouth, crass poseurs with stupid, stupid haircuts and schoolyard nicknames, prancing about whooping and yelling pre and post-fight to the strains of cheesy gangsta-rap.

The "sport" itself is obscene to watch. All the dirty moves that were completely taboo in a streetfight in my day, are applauded on this crap.

And as for hitting a defenceless fighter when he's down......

Whilst I'm on a rant - maybe you guys can enlighten me as to how that idiotic, overused, ubiquitous "Owned" expression came about. That just sucks soooooo much.

Ignorant post like this makes me want to hate Boxing. I hope other poster aren't as closed minded as you.

Stop comparing the two sports for God sake!!

If you do not like MMA then do not watch it! It's as simple as that.

:pat:

And as for hitting a defenceless fighter when he's down......

Is it better to hit a defenseless fighter standing up? See Green-Codrington, Mercer-Morrison, or Jesus Chavez-Leavander Johnson as examples.

not true brother! 99.9 % of all street fights end up on the floor (known fact) that is why the Brazilian art of Nu-Ji-Tsu (Grappling) won in the "Battle of the Masters" of Martial Arts. It beat the Karate Master with ease, Kung-fu, Kick Boxer, Tae-Kwon-Do, and many respectable art forms were proven to be beatable by the Nu-ji-Tsu Master. Boxing, however, did have the greater force of impact on the head, with a strike of the hands (arms). To say that a Boxer can take out a Martial Artist is an overstatement. Remember that a Boxer CAN NOT grab his opponent, while his opponent uses every part of his body.


What is "Nu-Ji-Tsu"??

Yes, I know this, but there are guys in there that throw horrible looking punches.

You want to talk about worrying about punches and kicks? well then you should not be throwing wide punches that are stiff, should you?

Boxers learn how to throw explosive punches that are tight in order to get back to protecting yourself.

Maybe it is because a lot of these guys are really slow when they punched or maybe it is everything included.


This is why Chuck got caught yesterday and this is why a lot of those guys get caught. But hey, everybody can be caught, even the most skilled, so no need to bother.


Of course your stand changes in MMA, but this does not mean you have to have poor technique.

If you want to argue that you do not have time to practice fist striking form because you have other things to worry about like wrestling/grappling, kicks, etc. time, OK, I agree.

I did notice that chuck threw a left hook to Rampage's body and kept his hand down for so long. On top of that he appeared to be moving backwards as Rampage's hook connected sending him to the canvas.

Yes, I know this, but there are guys in there that throw horrible looking punches.

You want to talk about worrying about punches and kicks? well then you should not be throwing wide punches that are stiff, should you?

Boxers learn how to throw explosive punches that are tight in order to get back to protecting yourself.

Maybe it is because a lot of these guys are really slow when they punched or maybe it is everything included.


This is why Chuck got caught yesterday and this is why a lot of those guys get caught. But hey, everybody can be caught, even the most skilled, so no need to bother.


Of course your stand changes in MMA, but this does not mean you have to have poor technique.

If you want to argue that you do not have time to practice fist striking form because you have other things to worry about like wrestling/grappling, kicks, etc. time, OK, I agree.

not true brother! 99.9 % of all street fights end up on the floor (known fact) that is why the Brazilian art of Nu-Ji-Tsu (Grappling) won in the "Battle of the Masters" of Martial Arts. It beat the Karate Master with ease, Kung-fu, Kick Boxer, Tae-Kwon-Do, and many respectable art forms were proven to be beatable by the Nu-ji-Tsu Master. Boxing, however, did have the greater force of impact on the head, with a strike of the hands (arms). To say that a Boxer can take out a Martial Artist is an overstatement. Remember that a Boxer CAN NOT grab his opponent, while his opponent uses every part of his body.


True to an extent, but 99% of street brawls I've ever seen have involved people who haven't been trained in martial arts or boxing.

Boy oh Boy you are so Wrong!!!

Karo is a worldclass Judoka

BJ Penn, Gonzaga are worldclass BJJ artist

Fedor is a worldclass Sambo artist

Hunt and Crocop are K1 champs

Lindland is an olympic medalist.

The list can go on...

You are so wrong but you know whats ironic about this? Gonzaga may be a BJJ mundial champ but his BJJ in MMA is not as good as Nogueira. You see alot of MMA top notch guys are worldclass champs in their MA and have to adapt it in different situation. Hunt is a better kickboxer than Crocop but Crocop adapted himself to MMA and Hunt still has a bit of work to do.

You boxing die hard fan need to get your head out of your pants and see that Boxing isn't everything and there are way more discipline to learn.

whao, you certainly know your stuff. shows you've done the research, you sounded like a very knowledgable, cool headed, guy with class. But the comment you made a the end.....dude, what you created with your hands...you crumbled with your feet.

who cares, ALL mma fighters get owned in mma, other than Fedor! FACT
and most all mma fighters would get owned by the lowest journeyman in boxing, also fact. so whats your point?

and mma fighters would lose against a top notch weapon-using fighter...thats means theyre inferior :ugh: some mma fans need to wake up and realize that mma does not=a real street fight.
nothing= a real street fight unless you have 9mm and sagging pants, right?
:bryce:
MMA is the closest thing to a real street, period. Deal with it, and STFU.

UFC is a breakdown of certain martial arts that contain just as much skill as boxing.

You're a ****ing spanner if you believe there is no skill involved in UFC lol.

After watching last nights great action but skilless UFC 71, id like to say im kinda apalude by the backerz of UFC who even try to compare it to boxing.
Yawn.....
:gives:
Yawn.....



And as entertaing as it can be it really lacks the skill, creativity and overall ora of a genuine boxing match, many fighters though called masters look like nothing more then clueless children throwing punches on there feet, while some make the KOs they administer look brillant, there seems to be more raw aggression associated with it rather then skill! The submissions are great but who wants to see grown men tapping out, other then from a Kurt Angel ankle lock! And also many fights are prematurely stopped and dont live up to there potential becuz of the immediate impact of some shots that knock fighters down but rather then counting fighters out or giving standing 8s, fighter are immediatley jumped on and if hit enough stopped when in many instances they are still able to defend themselves!
If there were standing 8 counts, the fighters would have serious injuries. The standing 8 count is one of two elements that compromise a fighters long-term health. Don't make MMA more dangerous. And as for the raw aggression thing, you really need to do some homework. Raw aggression is ALWAYS important, especially in a fight. Raw aggression can catch your opponent off-guard, and it can exhaust your opponent very quickly. Now combine raw-aggression with small gloves and extremely effective submissions, no doubt that's going to be a good element to use in a fight. Although there are ones like CroCop who love to stalk their prey as oppose to blitzing them from the outset.



Now im about a 100% sure any of are top boxer could take on and beat any UFC fighter as many of them try to stand up and box (strike) themselves and look horrid at it! Din Thomas vs Floyd Mayweather Floyd would paralaze the dude!
If any UFC fighter who had a wrestling/judo/juijitsu and had no Muey Tai or Kickboxing background decided to strictly stand with a boxer, he would get his ass handed to him early in the first round. But frankly, no one in the UFC is that dumb, so it's not going to happen. The boxer would get kicked until he realizes that he needs to be closer to punch. As soon as he gets in punching range.... thud.... he'd be tackled and the fight would be over for the boxer as soon as that happens. If Din Thomas going against Floyd Mayweather actually happens, I'll personally take your retarded ass up on any wagers you make on the boxer wining.


The UFC is nothing more then like many have said before me, human ****fighting, where basically two athlethese men or women fight til 1 is KOed or sumbitted and besides the submission aspect of the sport many fighters drop like flys by the rounds, minutes and as in more then 1 instant yesterday the second!
How the **** is that "human ****fighting"? You dip****. You need to figure out what ****fighting is in the first place BEFORE you talk. Do the fighters go in and peck each other to death? Do the refs attach razor blades to the appendages of the fighters? Hell, do any of the fighters EVEN die after a match? That's 3 ****in "NO's" you dickhead. Get the **** out of here.

nothing= a real street fight unless you have 9mm MMA is the closest thing to a real street, period. Deal with it, and STFU.

Yeah. Because the average man has no fighting skills. Punches always win fights in the end. Kicks are innacurate, and that rolling around fondling eachother **** is just plain gay.

I absolutely DETEST UFC :peeright:

Where boxing is about skill, strategy, physical conditioning and plain old guts, UFC represents everything that is wrong with modern society.
Yes, Juijitsu/Judo/Kickboxing/Muey Tai/Greco-Roman Wrestling/kung fu/Tae Kwon Do/etc. don't take strategy, physical conditioning, skill or guts, right?


Loudmouth, crass poseurs with stupid, stupid haircuts and schoolyard nicknames, prancing about whooping and yelling pre and post-fight to the strains of cheesy gangsta-rap.
Loudmouth? schoolyard nicknames? prancing about whooping and yelling?
You must be like-wise disgusted with boxing history because all through the years it has had its loudmouths (eg. Muhammad Ali for one). As for schoolyard nicknames, boxing has it's history full of schoolyard nicknames (eg. "Iron" Mike Tyson, "Sugar" Ray Robinson, "Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather, etc. I can go way back into boxings history if you want). And the prancing thing,.... do I really need to address this?
...moving on. Oh, about the "cheesy gangsta-rap". I personally find it very difficult to get in a fighting mindset with Mozart or The Righteous Brothers playing. What would you suggest they enter with?



The "sport" itself is obscene to watch. All the dirty moves that were completely taboo in a streetfight in my day, are applauded on this crap.

I really wish I lived back in your day. It sounds like a utopia when compared to this world's current environment.


And as for hitting a defenceless fighter when he's down......

When you're on the ground, you are NOT defenseless. Juijitsu specializes in ground fighting. Isn't that beautiful, that no one has to be defenseless anymore?

...now if you're talking about when the fighter isn't mentally home (eg. eyes rolled back or flailing arms or huddled in a ball) then the ref steps in and stops the fight. Frankly, most people don't like to see a guy beat into oblivion when he's clearly not defending himself. I know I don't.


Whilst I'm on a rant - maybe you guys can enlighten me as to how that idiotic, overused, ubiquitous "Owned" expression came about. That just sucks soooooo much.
"Owned" basically comes from the expression that you were bought and paid for regardless of your own consent, and now you're doing whatever your owner wants you to do. "Owned" is basically saying that that another individual was completely outclassed to the point that he was being used like an instrument regardless of his will.

Yeah. Because the average man has no fighting skills. Punches always win fights in the end. Kicks are innacurate,

Punches don't win fights, guns win fights.

and that rolling around fondling eachother **** is just plain gay.
Ummm.... People should be doing chokes or locks, not fondling each other. I can tell you right now that fondling is NOT ground fighting. You need to seriously report that incident of fondling to your local police department. Fondling people without consent is NOT cool. If you live in California, run a search on the man who fondled you on meganslaw.com and see if his face pops up. Allowing things like this to go on unreported, only helps him to create more victims.

As usual, Naiu enters a thread and rips idiots a new *******.

Punches don't win fights, guns win fights.

No. Guns usually get used AFTER someone gets KTFO.




Ummm.... People should be doing chokes or locks, not fondling each other. I can tell you right now that fondling is NOT ground fighting. You need to seriously report that incident of fondling to your local police department. Fondling people without consent is NOT cool. If you live in California, run a search on the man who fondled you on meganslaw.com and see if his face pops up. Allowing things like this to go on unreported, only helps him to create more victims.

You got jokes. I'm just describing what I see everytime I watch a UFC fight. That **** is BORING. Plain and simple. Rolling around dry humping is not entertaining to me. But if it gets you off then I'm not one to judge what another man does in his own home. But please keep it to yourself.

looked up this "Nu-Ji-Tsu" that someone had written about and could not find a thing about it. What is this new deadly art that is submitting everyone on the planet!! :trink26:

Hmmmmm....I wonder why so many non-MMAer's post on an MMA thread. Obviously they know nothing about it. For one thing, the average round in MMA is much longer than a boxing round. Try fighting hard for 5 - 10 minutes. Most boxers, except at the championship level, would be gassed after one of these rounds, especially if they were taken to the ground and trying to avoid being strangled, or had their legs kicked into jello.

Secondly, a large number of world champions at the lighter weights were Thai boxers before they were boxers, which only proves if these guys were allowed to use their knees, legs, and elbows, in addition to their fists, boxers would be dropping like flies (except the old school guys like Stanley Ketchel, etc.).

Thirdly, the Thai boxers have done next to nothing in mixed martial arts because they spend too much time on stand-up skills and are lost on the ground. Basically, whether a stand-up or grappling, the fighter learns to defend the other art while attempting to apply his own art.

To learn it all, jui jutsu, Greco-Roman, freestyle wrestling, sambo, judo, Western boxing, Thai boxing, etc., has so far proven to be impossible for one man. Contrast this with boxing, where there are only 4 basic punches, no groundwork or throwing allowed, only the fist as a weapon, nothing below the belt, etc.

It is easy to see why a champion at either sport will never fare very well in the other sport. It was many, many years before a champion was crowned simultaneously in boxing and kickboxing, e.g. Troy Dorsey.

Sorry about taking so long to respond, I had to do something more important.... yawn, ****, sleep, ****, and then yawn.

No. Guns usually get used AFTER someone gets KTFO.

Phssst.... Since when? You need to get shot more,.... or something.


I'm just describing what I see everytime I watch a UFC fight. That **** is BORING. Plain and simple. Rolling around dry humping is not entertaining to me.The dry humping you're talking about isn't entertaining to me either, but it's usually is called blanketing your opponent and not doing anything.


But if it gets you off then I'm not one to judge what another man does in his own home.
Yawn.... I'm sorry was that an insult? ****, man. You need to give me some kind of warning before you make a joke.

But please keep it to yourself.
Um... You DO realize you were the one who brought up being fondled.


You got jokes.
Great detective work. Now if only I were a greater detective than you, then I might be able to figure out how you think you're funny.

looked up this "Nu-Ji-Tsu" that someone had written about and could not find a thing about it. What is this new deadly art that is submitting everyone on the planet!! :trink26:

Your guess is as good as mine. Royce/Rickson/Royler/etc. better watch out. We may have a new revolutionary art in the UFC soon. O_O

As usual, Naiu enters a thread and rips idiots a new *******.
It's no skill on my part. They simply dig their own graves with their piss poor understanding of accurate self-expression and English grammar, I merely kick their stupid ass into their own grave. ^_^b'

looked up this "Nu-Ji-Tsu" that someone had written about and could not find a thing about it. What is this new deadly art that is submitting everyone on the planet!! :trink26:

that was a type-o. The correct spelling is "Jui-Jitsu".

that was a type-o. The correct spelling is "Jui-Jitsu".

LOL. Yeah, I know. I was just giving you a hard time. ^_^b

Yeah. Because the average man has no fighting skills. Punches always win fights in the end. Kicks are innacurate, and that rolling around fondling eachother **** is just plain gay.


Somehow I know you. I just don't know where. :thinking:

MMA:

http://blog.benjarriola.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/kd-mma-gloves.jpg

Boxing:

http://www.ukti-ilt.com/iltshop_files/boxing_glovespinkblue.jpg

^^Atleast MMA fighters dont wear ***gy pink gloves

^^Atleast MMA fighters dont wear ***gy pink gloves

Dude. SMACKGIRL.

huh???????

Smackgirl is an all women MMA promotion/card.

oh yeah, well, it doesnt make those girls ***s :D

Boxing is probably more exciting.
it is a harder sport (twelve rounds of boxing is harder than anything in grappling or MMA)
It showcases a greater level of technical skill within a single fighting discipline.
but...

A UFC fighter will murder a boxer in a match where the techniques of both disciplines are permitted.

You can't base how a UFC fighter would fight a boxer on how he fights someone that he knows he can stand up and exchange blows with, that is absurd. Every fighter bases his strategy on the weaknesses of their opponent, you know that from boxing. This is one of the reasons that so many Ufc fighters actually do stay on their feet when they fight one another. Look at the old UFC fights with Royce gracie. When Gracie is fighting a serious Kickboxer the guy ends up on the floor in a matter of seconds. Now because of the realization that pure kickboxers don't stand a chance in the tournament because of their grappling limitation, there are few of them in the tournament. Don't be deceived by how they fight one other, they will take a boxer straight to the ground and end the match in seconds. They use whatever works best on whoever they are fighting.

Wow, I just read all 9 pages of this thread, I think I deserve a medal.

Ok well I'm going to give my points and try not to be too biased.

First point, to say that The best in boxing are better than the best in say BJJ is plausable, but not neccesarily true, I havent seen the best BJJ guys and stuff, but, BJJ has been around for around 100 years, boxing has been around for a lot longer, and is one of the words oldest sports. Ok admittedly, so is wrestling, but boxing is more specific and graappling isnt. Boxing has gone through lots of different things from bareknuckle to where we are today.

Also, (This is asumption) more people know about boxing than other sports, at least I would say in the western world, maybe its different in brazil. Come over here and ask 10 people "whats boxing?" and then "whats brazilian ju jitsu" I would think more people would know what bnoxing is. And I would say more people box themselves than do BJJ ( or other such arts) which means there are more people getting better and fighting each other, with more likelyhood of having a better fighter at the end, if you get me.

No MMA isn't a streetfight. Although (as far as I know) it's the closest we have here anyway. MMA has gloves, rules, ref, a cage or ring, rounds etc. Streetfights dont, and as someone else pointed out can involve weapons and multiple opponents.



Who cares which is better? It's a matter of choice.

MMA does involve skill, when the 2 guys are rolling around on top of each other, it may look gay to some, but they are trying to grapple, that **** aint easy.

MMA doesn't always look beautiful, but doesn't mean it's not good. I used to see their stances and think WHAT?! But yeh as someone pointed out its to defend against other things, well thats what Ive been told.

To say an MMA guy will be terrible in boxing. It depends how good he is at striking and boxing. To say a boxer will be terrible and MMA isn't true, it depends on his opponent.

If a gracie had a boxing match youre not allowed to grapple, so it would depend on his punching, BUT you are allowed to punch in MMA.

I would love to see a great boxer fight a great MMAer. Say a prime tyson versus whoever.

There are 4 basic punches in boxing, and then there are variations of them all.

MMA does involve skill, otherwise anyone would be able to walk off the street with no trainining and have a good chance of winning.

MMA is a fight....fights sometimes aren`t pretty to watch, but they are usually violent

for someone to say boxing is more exciting is a joke.

All of the guys/gurls that say mma fighters have no skill whatsoever just dont understand the ****ing sport, they think its all about ****ing punching and throwing jabs which is isnt true.

here is my play by play of the last boxing match Ive watched with DLH vs FM

jab.....jab.....jab...left hook...tie up.....BREAK...jab..........tie up...BREAK....a lil flurry that wont do ****....tie up...BREAK....end of round.

****ing boring as ****. lol

Alot of MMA fights though they just fall on the gruond and stay locked up for like 3 minutes

Alot of MMA fights though they just fall on the gruond and stay locked up for like 3 minutes

you have to watch more of tito ortiz fights, he is pretty active on the ground.

dunno why i used him for a example because there are more active fighters that are better, but tito is good also.

I reccomend u dont watch any of matt hughes fights or josh koscheck, cause they bore the hell outta me on the ground.

just as lots of boxing matches arent all jab jab

Matt Hughes is way more active on the ground than Tito Ortiz. Dude, Hughes passed Royce's guard and got back mount. Tito lays in the guard and just throws elbows to try and cut the opponent.

Matt Hughes is way more active on the ground than Tito Ortiz. Dude, Hughes passed Royce's guard and got back mount. Tito lays in the guard and just throws elbows to try and cut the opponent.

haha uh nice how u used a old skin with bones royce gracie for a example, if your gon be build like a bull like matt hughes is of course your gonna get past a royce gracie gaurd.
Im slowly becoming a matt hughes fan, but not up there yet.
Did u watch his last fight? LnP by hughes and guess who was ref? Herb Dean who didnt stand them up for 3 1/2 minutes in the last round.
Yes matt has been active on the ground but lately he had done ****.
BJ penn he couldnt do **** to until BJ's ribs started bothering him.
Whats wrong with tito's elbows? its still being active isnt it...OF COURSE IT IS.
there are more than one way to be active on the ground then getting past a gaurd....Dude.

How can you say there is no skill involved with being successful in the UFC? Most, if not all fighters, are well versed in a number of matrial arts disciplines, such as the following:


Brazillian Jui-jitsu
Judo
Muay Thai Kickboxing
many versions of Kempo incuding Nippon Kempo, Shorinji Kempo, and Kiyojute Ryu Kempo
Sambo


All of these take years and years of training to master...and once you are a black belt in one...you still have to mix it with others to be effective in an MMA fight.

I'm suprised at how close minded some people are on here.\

Of course all those individual arts take skill but once you put it all in the UFC you get something tottally different and at times dat **** is tottally entertaining but isnt any different from me watchin bums street fight.....

It's a lot different than watching bums in the street fight. You have someone ready to pounce on the slightest false movement, in the street you can usually get away with a lot.

Maybe in the K-Zoo people are more skilled in the street, I don't know.

They get tired and drop to the floor for an hour hugging and holding
Like watching John ruiz and ricky hatton fight on the floor..

LOL, that sounds like theyre making love

:luvbed: [They get tired and drop to the floor for an hour hugging and holding
Like watching John ruiz and ricky hatton fight on the floor..[/QUOTE]

LOL, that sounds like theyre making love:luvbed:

that was a type-o. The correct spelling is "Jui-Jitsu".


Me too Sarge!!

:boxing:

looked up this "Nu-Ji-Tsu" that someone had written about and could not find a thing about it. What is this new deadly art that is submitting everyone on the planet!! :trink26:

dude, that was a type-o. the correct spelling is 'Jui-Jitsu". Since you couldn't round it off to the nearest 10....It is the Brazilian Art form world reknown by one Royce Gracie. (I'm sure you heard of his family) And brother, a Sumo can take out a Jui-Jitsu Master on any given Sunday. Like any other Art form, it is not unbeatable. What I simply said was that while many Art forms, like the Karate Master, Kung-fu, Tae-Kwan-Doe, and especiallly the Judo Master (which was a female) was very Intimidating when performing thier "freestyle" demonstration, and weaponry skills. But when it came to "defeating" the other styles....The Jui-Jitsu Master was one bad ass MOFO! Nothing fancy, no back flips, no shouting at every strike....just plain 'ol, making 'em tap out. I respect the sheer grace and finess of all Martial Arts form...but if I had to pick one...CAN YOU SAY"JUI-JITSU"

True to an extent, but 99% of street brawls I've ever seen have involved people who haven't been trained in martial arts or boxing.

that is exactly what i was refering to! It starts with 10 seconds of wild swinging, and within 20 seconds...that fight is on the floor. Happens EVERYTIME! Because a "street fight" will more than likely end-up on the ground....a straight right hand, round house, and the infamous "side-burst" kick are useless. You know it is all about head locks, grabbing, trying to get on top of the other guy, and bash that face in, ala Tito Ortiz style!

But you are right....Some one with some training, and discipline....won't allow himself to be grabbed.

After watching last nights great action but skilless UFC 71, id like to say im kinda apalude by the backerz of UFC who even try to compare it to boxing. The UFC is nothing more then like many have said before me, human ****fighting, where basically two athlethese men or women fight til 1 is KOed or sumbitted and besides the submission aspect of the sport many fighters drop like flys by the rounds, minutes and as in more then 1 instant yesterday the second! And as entertaing as it can be it really lacks the skill, creativity and overall ora of a genuine boxing match, many fighters though called masters look like nothing more then clueless children throwing punches on there feet, while some make the KOs they administer look brillant, there seems to be more raw aggression associated with it rather then skill! The submissions are great but who wants to see grown men tapping out, other then from a Kurt Angel ankle lock! And also many fights are prematurely stopped and dont live up to there potential becuz of the immediate impact of some shots that knock fighters down but rather then counting fighters out or giving standing 8s, fighter are immediatley jumped on and if hit enough stopped when in many instances they are still able to defend themselves!

Now watch a classic Boxing brawl and the action is timeless and alot of times lasts more then 48 seconds! Now im not tryin to knock the UFC becuz i was and still am intrigued like many others, **** i paid 39.95 for what id liek to think of as a great action packed evening, but was disappointed on the lackluster length of action many fights where! and dont think any 5 min 3-5 round fight, can be better then say a 10 or 12 round fight where you have to stay on your feet!
Now im about a 100% sure any of are top boxer could take on and beat any UFC fighter as many of them try to stand up and box (strike) themselves and look horrid at it! Din Thomas vs Floyd Mayweather Floyd would paralaze the dude!

I agree 100% and it doesn't look like it's getting any better. Infact MMA seems to be going the way of PRO Wrestling. And the fact that the meatheads that participate are nowhere near the athlete of ranked boxers doesn't help them much. Some of there best fighters couldn't cut it as boxers so they made the switch. Nice post I cosign.

its true that a lot of fights go to the ground, but Ground fighting in a street fight is not advised. He could have a knife, and you wont see it. Or his mate will kick you in, or stab you.

Only time I would advise ground fighting is when theres no one else about and youre beating him on the ground, and he doesnt appaear to have a knife or other weapon (no that youd know for sure)

its true that a lot of fights go to the ground, but Ground fighting in a street fight is not advised. He could have a knife, and you wont see it. Or his mate will kick you in, or stab you.

Only time I would advise ground fighting is when theres no one else about and youre beating him on the ground, and he doesnt appaear to have a knife or other weapon (no that youd know for sure)

You're right, I've been kicked in the head by a third party before. Stupid stupid move on my part.

dude, that was a type-o. the correct spelling is 'Jui-Jitsu". Since you couldn't round it off to the nearest 10....It is the Brazilian Art form world reknown by one Royce Gracie. (I'm sure you heard of his family) And brother, a Sumo can take out a Jui-Jitsu Master on any given Sunday. Like any other Art form, it is not unbeatable. What I simply said was that while many Art forms, like the Karate Master, Kung-fu, Tae-Kwan-Doe, and especiallly the Judo Master (which was a female) was very Intimidating when performing thier "freestyle" demonstration, and weaponry skills. But when it came to "defeating" the other styles....The Jui-Jitsu Master was one bad ass MOFO! Nothing fancy, no back flips, no shouting at every strike....just plain 'ol, making 'em tap out. I respect the sheer grace and finess of all Martial Arts form...but if I had to pick one...CAN YOU SAY"JUI-JITSU"


Dude, relax, i was just playing with you. if you want me to be critical about it you also mispelled Tae kwon Do. :boxing:

I have been studying BJJ now for 2 years here in San Diego and I have to say that as a self-defesne form on its' own it is not the most definitive form of self-defesne to know. I have been studying Muay Thai for over 20 years and I decided to cross-train in a ground-fighting art form to better compliment my arsenal. I also studied Hawaiian Kajukenbo and attained a 3rd Degree Black Belt. I am 36 now so the only fighting I see is in the ring or mat when I spar my team-mates. But when I was younger the only tactics I used was Muay Thai. In other words, the traditional stuff is better left to movie-action actors and the big screen. "Traditional" stand-up arts and its' punch-defense techniques" like Kenpo/Kempo, Tae Kwon Do or Aikido has no place in MMA.

I absolutely DETEST UFC :peeright:

Where boxing is about skill, strategy, physical conditioning and plain old guts, UFC represents everything that is wrong with modern society.

Loudmouth, crass poseurs with stupid, stupid haircuts and schoolyard nicknames, prancing about whooping and yelling pre and post-fight to the strains of cheesy gangsta-rap.

The "sport" itself is obscene to watch. All the dirty moves that were completely taboo in a streetfight in my day, are applauded on this crap.

And as for hitting a defenceless fighter when he's down......

Whilst I'm on a rant - maybe you guys can enlighten me as to how that idiotic, overused, ubiquitous "Owned" expression came about. That just sucks soooooo much.

Nice. :fing02:

Ignorant post like this makes me want to hate Boxing. I hope other poster aren't as closed minded as you.

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

Funniest thing I've read..

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

Funniest thing I've read..

You are clearly a blind MMA hater without any arguments to back you up. Go play with your dolls.

whao, you certainly know your stuff. shows you've done the research, you sounded like a very knowledgable, cool headed, guy with class. But the comment you made a the end.....dude, what you created with your hands...you crumbled with your feet.

My goal wasn't to please you but to show how ignorant people can be by saying MMA doesn't involve skills.

If you got hurt by it, too bad :bottle:

Dude, relax, i was just playing with you. if you want me to be critical about it you also mispelled Tae kwon Do. :boxing:

I have been studying BJJ now for 2 years here in San Diego and I have to say that as a self-defesne form on its' own it is not the most definitive form of self-defesne to know. I have been studying Muay Thai for over 20 years and I decided to cross-train in a ground-fighting art form to better compliment my arsenal. I also studied Hawaiian Kajukenbo and attained a 3rd Degree Black Belt. I am 36 now so the only fighting I see is in the ring or mat when I spar my team-mates. But when I was younger the only tactics I used was Muay Thai. In other words, the traditional stuff is better left to movie-action actors and the big screen. "Traditional" stand-up arts and its' punch-defense techniques" like Kenpo/Kempo, Tae Kwon Do or Aikido has no place in MMA.

cool, brother, thanks for in input. That is a very impressive resume you have there. You mentioned things I never even heard of! I commend you on furthering your ground techniques, it will serve you well, make an all around, ready for anything, warrior. I most certainly agree with you that Aikido and Kempo are some what of a broken clock on the MMA arena, as it is mainly a "blocking" style of Martial Arts. Great form, not knocking it, but as you, I don't really see it "aggresive" enough, or more offensive then defensive. Ay brother, gotta run...duty calls. Peace!

A lot of martial arts were made thousands of years ago. To quote someone else, something like.. they were made when you had to fight people on horses and stuff.

Ill find the article if anyone wants to read it.

For instance karate, you are taught to pull your punches so you can fight in competitions, but when it goes for doing it on the street it doesnt work.

But it can work if you modify it

any style works if you have the personality and mental make up to fight

you can be an MMA'r , a boxer , anything really and still get your ass kicked by a bar brawler. Its all in the mind and has nothing to do with style unless two people with equal determination and capacity to fight actually fight each other, this rarely happens outside organised events.

Thats not entirely true man. If my style said that I only punch people on the forehead and had my thumbs inside my fists when I did it, I wouldnt do very well.

haha uh nice how u used a old skin with bones royce gracie for a example, if your gon be build like a bull like matt hughes is of course your gonna get past a royce gracie gaurd.
Im slowly becoming a matt hughes fan, but not up there yet.
Did u watch his last fight? LnP by hughes and guess who was ref? Herb Dean who didnt stand them up for 3 1/2 minutes in the last round.
Yes matt has been active on the ground but lately he had done ****.
BJ penn he couldnt do **** to until BJ's ribs started bothering him.
Whats wrong with tito's elbows? its still being active isnt it...OF COURSE IT IS.
there are more than one way to be active on the ground then getting past a gaurd....Dude.


By active I meant improving position as well as striking. Tito does throw elbows, but he does it to cause cuts which will get the fights stopped. I prefer a fight to won with a tap or KO not a cut. Just my opinion. A perfect example of active ground work for me was St Pierre vs Trigg.

Thats not entirely true man. If my style said that I only punch people on the forehead and had my thumbs inside my fists when I did it, I wouldnt do very well.


i meant styles that exist...like boxing or muay thai......

I agree 100% and it doesn't look like it's getting any better. Infact MMA seems to be going the way of PRO Wrestling. And the fact that the meatheads that participate are nowhere near the athlete of ranked boxers doesn't help them much. Some of there best fighters couldn't cut it as boxers so they made the switch. Nice post I cosign.

You DO realize that the majority of MMAers come from a wrestling/judo/juijitsu background, and NOT boxing right? If they did wrestling their entire life, there would be absolutely no point trying to make a professional boxing career so late in life. Do you guys even hear yourselves? Now about being athletic, look up the definition of the ****in word BEFORE you use it. Here's a quote from my book.

(Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 10th Edition)
Athlete: A person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina.

Follow me, as I make this comparison easy-to-follow, for your inbred-self.

Boxers
Training/Skill in Different Exercises: about a 4/10 Fist and footwork isn't the whole universe.
Training/Skill in Different Sports: about a 1/10 Boxing is considered a sport
Physical Strength: 3/10 Only perfecting your arms, doesn't increase your leg/back/lifting strength.
Agility: 5.5/10 pretty much lacking sprawl, moving your head/chest is only so much of the game
Stamina: 6.5/10 Usually great stamina for upper body, but the stamina on ground is a whole other story.

MMAer
Training/Skill in Different Exercises: 8/10 Trains extensively in leg/arm/torsal strength/speed/flexibility
Training/Skill in Different Sports:6/10 Judo is a sport, BJJ is a sport, MMA is a sport, Kickboxing is a sport, I could go on.
Physical Strength:7/10 Working pretty much all parts of body
Agility: 9/10 Not only head/chest agility but sprawl and ground agility as well.
Stamina: 6/10 Not having to trade punches forever is an advantage, but ground game needs a whole lot of stamina.

Here's some free advice for your ignorant ass. Do research BEFORE you post here, because you're showing that you obviously can't 'wing-it' in any conversation without sounding like a complete dip****. One more thing, LEAVE.

what is this stuff about boxers only training their arms?

You do realise that the force of a punch travels through your feet and legs, your waist back and arms...if you weren`t connected to the ground, the punch wouldn`t harm a fly.

leg training for a boxer is very important if you want any type of power in your punches.

You DO realize that the majority of MMAers come from a wrestling/judo/juijitsu background, and NOT boxing right? If they did wrestling their entire life, there would be absolutely no point trying to make a professional boxing career so late in life.

100% correct. It's a HUGE reason MMA has alot of good fighters coming up in the sport. See, if you have a good amateur boxing career, you can then box as a pro. But guys who had good amateur wrestling/judo/BJJ careers had nowhere to go once their amateur careers ended. Now they have MMA, whether it's competing or coaching, they have these as potentially lucrative career options. Excellent post.

I like people that are critisizing how top MMA striker would do in boxing.

They don't realize it is as stupid as comparing how PFB would do in Judo or Wrestling. Most of all MMA guys doesn't come from a boxing backround. And even if they would, they would not be able to use their technical stance and same footwork as in boxing.

Boxing is checkers while MMA is chess. Boxers can't consider themselves as the baddest guys now, they are one trick poney. They excel in their 1 dimensional type of fighting which is striking but they don't realize they still have to learn how to sprawl, clinch, submit and GNP.

So yeah... saying MMA = no skills is pretty dumb as statement.

what is this stuff about boxers only training their arms?

You do realise that the force of a punch travels through your feet and legs, your waist back and arms...if you weren`t connected to the ground, the punch wouldn`t harm a fly.

leg training for a boxer is very important if you want any type of power in your punches.
The type of leg training a boxer does, is hardly worth mentioning, it's not even on the same plain as a Muey Tai fighter, wrestler, Juijitsu practitioner or hell, even a basketball player. The majority of the force of a punch is generated in the hips and back, not the legs.

no it's not. As an example, if you throw an uppercut, the force is generated mainly with the legs...

How do you know what training a boxer does....i box...and i train my legs every day... footwork is extremely important...

Roadwork is a very important part of a boxers workout....

Are you seriously telling me that most Wrestlers are out pounding the pavement at 5am for 8 miles each morning.


Just because someone doesn`t throw kicks in a fight doesn`t mean they dont train legs.

Boxers indeed train their legs. Go and ask in training and nutrition.

My goal wasn't to please you but to show how ignorant people can be by saying MMA doesn't involve skills.

If you got hurt by it, too bad :bottle:

Dont worry bout it, this thread was obvious made by a JELOUS boxing fan.

your sport aint it anymore mmk, give it up boxing noobs.

Boxers indeed train their legs. Go and ask in training and nutrition.
Yeah... about that, reread my post. I never said they didn't train their legs, genius.
The type of leg training a boxer does, is hardly worth mentioning, it's not even on the same plain as a Muey Tai fighter, wrestler, Juijitsu practitioner or hell, even a basketball player. The majority of the force of a punch is generated in the hips and back, not the legs.

no it's not. As an example, if you throw an uppercut, the force is generated mainly with the legs...
An uppercut thrown without the right hip movement IS really ineffective. Ask your trainer what's the key component of an effective uppercut, hip movement (positioning) or leg strength.


How do you know what training a boxer does....i box...and i train my legs every day... footwork is extremely important...
Oh ****! You box! Damn, I was just pulling all this talk out of my ass in the meantime, now I'm in trouble because someone on a BOXING forum trains in boxing and disagrees with me.

Don't be so naive, I've been training since I was 5 years old. My grandpa use to train boxers all the time, and my Dad was a professional boxer as well. I know what training boxers do for their legs, and I have been doing Muey Tai, wrestling, and Brazilian Juijitsu for a decent length of time as well. As I said before, the type of leg training that boxers do is NOT on the same plain.

Roadwork is a very important part of a boxers workout....

Are you seriously telling me that most Wrestlers are out pounding the pavement at 5am for 8 miles each morning.

That type of jogging (or whatever pace you go at) is for your endurance in the ring. Does a wrestler need to go around a ring for X amount of rounds? No. Granted he certainly doesn't neglect that type of training, but for his legs it would be more beneficial for him to do plyometric exercises.

Just because someone doesn`t throw kicks in a fight doesn`t mean they dont train legs.
Try digging back into the years that you were in a high school English class. There was a wonderful section in that class during the year called READING COMPREHENSION. Read my post, and use that skill.

oh please, dont be generalistic. It depends on the fighter. A ton of BJJ fighters have very weak skinny legs, because so much muscle mass would limit their maneuvarability off their back, and it would be tougher to use their legs for submissions.

You take a look a some boxers' legs, and you want to tell me that the average basketball player has stronger legs? cmon now.
It depends on the individual, and many boxers train their legs PLENTY hard enough.

Some of you overly ambitious mma fans ought to calm down, there some bad posts, but some of your *****fests and comments sound like your house just got burnt down and your dog just died. Lighten up.

btw the need for the correct hip placement in an uppercut is so the power from the legs can be generated and transferred to the momentum of the punch, so it pretty much takes both the legs and hips...
________
Civic (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_Civic)

oh please, dont be generalistic. It depends on the fighter. A ton of BJJ fighters have very weak skinny legs, because so much muscle mass would limit their maneuvarability off their back, and it would be tougher to use their legs for submissions.


So from your logic, you need weak skinny legs to be successful in BJJ?

What are we going to hear next?

My goal wasn't to please you but to show how ignorant people can be by saying MMA doesn't involve skills.

If you got hurt by it, too bad :bottle:

you still don't get it. but anyway, I'll still guide you in the right direction......brother, when you make a very vague statement (as you did), you can at least make yourself "look like" you know what you're talking about
by giving your opinion with details as to "why" and "how come". In other words, you just "hit-and-run". I ain't mad at you bro, some people just aren't CREATIVE like that.

you still don't get it. but anyway, I'll still guide you in the right direction......brother, when you make a very vague statement (as you did), you can at least make yourself "look like" you know what you're talking about
by giving your opinion with details as to "why" and "how come". In other words, you just "hit-and-run". I ain't mad at you bro, some people just aren't CREATIVE like that.

I think you still didn't get did you?

I don't need YOU to find me creative. Now you're trying way too hard to act cool with your ''bro''

So from your logic, you need weak skinny legs to be successful in BJJ?

What are we going to hear next?

haha, what is wrong with you? the whole point was that you should judge the fighter indvidually, and not be generalistic...do you know what that means...? That basically means that not all BJJ practitioners are going to have stronger legs than other athletes...I dont know, maybe there was something wrong with my post...lets see oh please, dont be generalistic. It depends on the fighter. A ton of BJJ fighters have very weak skinny legs, because so much muscle mass would limit their maneuvarability off their back, and it would be tougher to use their legs for submissions.

You take a look a some boxers' legs, and you want to tell me that the average basketball player has stronger legs? cmon now.
It depends on the individual, and many boxers train their legs PLENTY hard enough. The highlighted areas are ones you must have missed. poor guy
my gawd, you must be on crack or something, haha
________
Titan (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Mazda_Titan)

So from your logic, you need weak skinny legs to be successful in BJJ?

What are we going to hear next?

LOL, yeah, and he talked about me being a generalist. I guess he still did not figure out that the whole debate was on generalities. There will ALWAYS be ones who don't stick to the normal regimen, that's just reality.


oh please, dont be generalistic. It depends on the fighter. A ton of BJJ fighters have very weak skinny legs, because so much muscle mass would limit their maneuvarability off their back, and it would be tougher to use their legs for submissions.
Ummm... despite popular belief, big leg muscles are actually good for BJJ practitioners. The bigger the muscles, the less effort one needs when doing a armbar/triangle/omaplata/body triangle/etc. and the greater the effectiveness of such moves.



You take a look a some boxers' legs, and you want to tell me that the average basketball player has stronger legs? cmon now.
It depends on the individual, and many boxers train their legs PLENTY hard enough.
If we're talking professional basketball player in a guard or forward position, then yes. On average their legs are stronger from the huge amount of Plyometric exercises they do.

This debate seems close to dead for now. I'll clock back in when the retardation levels on this forum start to explode again.

haha, what is wrong with you? the whole point was that you should judge the fighter indvidually, and not be generalistic...do you know what that means...? That basically means that not all BJJ practitioners are going to have stronger legs than other athletes...

You dumb****.

If we were to break down every ****in fighter individually, we can't compare anything because of the vast amount of variations that would ensue. For every 100 people who would have a particular characteristic, you would just point out one that didn't and use that as the pivot to try jump subject about the vast majority sharing that characteristic. What page are we on now, I think we made 13+ pages on this subject matter so far. Have you still not figured that this whole damn thread was based off of generalities?




I dont know, maybe there was something wrong with my post...lets see The highlighted areas are ones you must have missed. poor guy
my gawd, you must be on crack or something, haha

Yeah, you did have something wrong with your post. You writing it, you dumb *****. Pay attention to the WHOLE thread before you ATTEMPT to talk trash about someone else. As a little side-note for your handicapped ass, crack jokes were no longer funny in the early 90s. They died off with the 'Your-Momma' jokes.

...Dumbass.

haha, you seem a little mad. Get used to it, its kind of the internet, I think you take things too seriously. Ill just throw this in for fun :fu2:

anyways, no, bjj guys dont really have stronger muscles than other athletes. The hard part in BJJ is not submitting the person once theyre already in position, its getting them into the submission position that is the hard part. in that case, flexibility would be more useful...bigger amounts of muslce makes you less flexible.

besides, look at some BJJ top guys. Roger Grace doesnt have especially big, strong legs, does he?

And no, I dont really care what you say, being generalistic is usually not good. I dont care how the whole thread has been, cause this has been a pretty bad thread the whole time anyway. What works for some may not work for others, and vice versa.
and btw, Whats his face went ahead and said "So from your logic, you need weak skinny legs to be successful in BJJ?" out of nowhere, so I had to walk him through it to get him to understand that I said nothing along those lines.

Man, overreactions...pull the stick out of your ass and lighten up.
________
Herbal health (http://herbalhealthshop.com)

I'm breaking it down one last time for your stupid ass.

haha, you seem a little mad. Get used to it, its kind of the internet, I think you take things too seriously. Ill just throw this in for fun :fu2:

:lame:
...Yawn....



The hard part in BJJ is not submitting the person once theyre already in position, its getting them into the submission position that is the hard part.
FOR REAL?! Damn, you're just kicking out genius whenever you type.



in that case, flexibility would be more useful...bigger amounts of muslce makes you less flexible.

Only when the muscle becomes ridiculously large and bunched. I'm friends with a few BJJ guys who are hella built and have almost the same flexibility as me. BJJ effectiveness isn't based on flexibility, it's technique. Physical build and flexibility just make the job easier.



besides, look at some BJJ top guys. Roger Grace doesnt have especially big, strong legs, does he?

How about Gabriel Gonzaga? I wouldn't say that he has small legs. Would you?



And no, I dont really care what you say, being generalistic is usually not good. I dont care how the whole thread has been, cause this has been a pretty bad thread the whole time anyway. What works for some may not work for others, and vice versa.

Yawn... Wasn't that a very generalized remark.
....cough....



and btw, Whats his face went ahead and said "So from your logic, you need weak skinny legs to be successful in BJJ?" out of nowhere, so I had to walk him through it to get him to understand that I said nothing along those lines.

Out of nowhere? Phsst.... His conclusion was accurately based on where you were headed with that train of thought. Do you read your **** BEFORE you post it?



Man, overreactions...pull the stick out of your ass and lighten up.

Calling people's intelligent responses to your dumb-as-**** posts, "overreactions" is pretty weak. Nice try. Minimizing your retardation only works when you fadeout of the conversation at hand.

FADE AWAY RETARD.

well, you have no purpose in this conversation anymore. You completely miss the point just for the sake of arguing or something :dunno: Just bein a smartass and a ***** now...And I dont really dont care how wrong you are and this is getting old, so Im done.
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Ford center (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Center)

I think you still didn't get did you?

I don't need YOU to find me creative. Now you're trying way too hard to act cool with your ''bro''

ok, obviously you are a very young person, less than 25, your mind shows it. i have been saying "BRO" since 1976. You weren't even born yet, so you wouldn't understand. so look "BRO", your post was very interesting, but i tried to tell you that you left US hanging, like It would have been nice to see more....but you like like a brat when some one gives you props. grow up youngin.

i have been saying "BRO" since 1976. You weren't even born yet, so you wouldn't understand. so look "BRO", your post was very interesting, but i tried to tell you that you left US hanging, like It would have been nice to see more....but you like like a brat when some one gives you props. grow up youngin.


you sounded like a very knowledgable, cool headed, guy with class. But the comment you made a the end.....dude, what you created with your hands...you crumbled with your feet.

ZzZZZzzZZ

Instead of staying in the subject you are forcing forcing yourself to look cool whitout adding anything to the topic. Like we care if you have been saying ''bro'' since 1976...

Good if you found my post interesting and wants to give props but you said it in a bad manner and I rather not have a props from you if it ever was.

------------

Back to the topic, most of people who said that MMA doesn't need any skill used Boxing as a comparison. One of the reason is that we are in a boxing forum and their opinion are biased. No one so far have been able to prove that MMA doesn't require skills.

ZzZZZzzZZ

Instead of staying in the subject you are forcing forcing yourself to look cool whitout adding anything to the topic. Like we care if you have been saying ''bro'' since 1976...

Good if you found my post interesting and wants to give props but you said it in a bad manner and I rather not have a props from you if it ever was.

------------

Back to the topic, most of people who said that MMA doesn't need any skill used Boxing as a comparison. One of the reason is that we are in a boxing forum and their opinion are biased. No one so far have been able to prove that MMA doesn't require skills.

all right, "BRO"! but who's WE. I was talking to you, the guy who has potential, but cathes a tude. Bro, when you go for that big Job...DO NOT show that type of insecurity. when some one puts you on the spot, be confident...show your talent.."BRO"!

all right, "BRO"! but who's WE. I was talking to you, the guy who has potential, but cathes a tude. Bro, when you go for that big Job...DO NOT show that type of insecurity. when some one puts you on the spot, be confident...show your talent.."BRO"!
:gives:
You're ****in beating the subject matter of "Bro." to death. ****, you're worst then me and BlackIrish with the generalization debate. Take a breathe of fresh air, and stop trolling these forums. I get the feeling that Brave doesn't need your job advice.

:gives:
You're ****in beating the subject matter of "Bro." to death. ****, you're worst then me and BlackIrish with the generalization debate. Take a breathe of fresh air, and stop trolling these forums. I get the feeling that Brave doesn't need your job advice.

Bro...that's short for Brother. If the creator is our Father....

do you believe the people, animals, earth, universe are "ONE"? just a simple question. be careful.....God has a sense of humor. Blesses you with children... just like you...to give back all the headaches.

This was an idiotic thread to begin with. The fact that y'all are actually arguing about it is more idiotic. The thing I hate about these MMA troll threads created in the Boxing Sections is that they get put in the MMA section then I have to look at "UFC no skill involved" everytime I come here.