Surely they're not going to pull through with this?




“O Muslims! do your duty and rise up against oppression.

Demonstrate on 15th of June and end the slience! Come out and speak out, condemn the oppression we face. Respond to the call of Allah and the Messenger.

(10th June 2007, 2:30 - 5pm, outside 10 Downing Street).

Britain has always claimed that she is a free state; the real story is that there is no freedom and no justice for the Muslims. The British Empire was built on the oppression of Muslims and indeed non-Muslims, destroying the Islamic State, kicking the Muslims out of Palestine and forming the Pirate State of Israel are just some of its crimes against the Muslims. This humiliation continues today not only at home but wherever the Muslims are.

Occupation of Muslim Land: They call it liberation and freedom, we call it occupation and domination! Britain is the key ally for America and together they have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims. They have raped our women, murdered our fathers and orphaned our children. First they starve us then they bomb our towns and cities. They arrest and torture our men and boys not even the elderly are spared.

Police Raids: Since September 11th more and more Muslim homes have been raided. It’s not ‘if’ but ‘when’ the Muslim will get raided. Our houses are broken into, doors smashed in, our wives and mothers are manhandled and our children terrorised, screaming with fear as daddy is arrested. The police can do as they please, they can humiliate, beat the Muslim and even shoot them, all safe in the knowledge that Tony Blair will support them, no matter what they do.

Attack on the Veil: You can walk down the street in this land with next to no clothes on, they will call that freedom, but if a Muslim sister wants to wear the veil she is seen as ‘threatening’. Jack Straw removed his veil and showed his true hatred towards Islam and the Muslims when he demanded Muslim sisters remove their veils.

Terror Laws: The government invents a law every other week aimed at putting fear in the hearts of the Muslims, some are even tailor made for particular sheikhs or activists. With these laws the government hopes the Muslims will abandon their support for the Muslims, they hope to stop us standing against Western Terrorism and they hope we will give up our religion. So who are the terrorists? Are they the Muslims who defend their lands and protect their women and children or are they the British who occupy the lands of others?

Media Crusade: Radio, TV, Newspapers and the Internet are all guilty of depicting the Muslims as barbaric blood thirsty terrorists. The truth is that the Muslims are a peaceful community who have lived in this country and had a massive positive impact on it. Whenever a Muslims is arrested or put on trial the media cook a new even more exaggerated story and create a witch hunt and frenzy in which the only verdict for the Muslim is guilty! Today whenever the word Islam or Muslim is mentioned the people think terrorist!

Insulting the Messenger Muhammad (saw): If a celebrity is insulted because of her race the whole world is in uproar, sponsors withdraw their support, there’s a police enquiry, the behaviour is seen to be unacceptable. But if one fifth of the world’s population is offended by the cartoon caricatures of the Messenger Muhammad (saw), this is seen to be quite alright! Rather than punish the perpetrators of this sick joke, the Muslims who peacefully demonstrated against the cartoon were arrested and punished, what was their crime? Answer. Incitement to racial hatred (i.e. insulting the Danes)!

Spying on Muslims: It is not enough that Muslims are spied upon by every government, now John Reid (the Home Secretary) wants us to spy on our children, he wants us to make sure they are not showing any strange behaviour, like coming home late at night (after Ishaa prayer) or leaving early in the morning (at Fajr prayer) or growing a beard or practising Islam or having friends that practise Islam…. . What if John Reid visited the temples of the Hindus and Sikhs or the churches, would he be offering the same advice to their parents?

Torture and Killing: When Britain demanded the release of 15 Navy hostages held by Iran they forgot to mention the hostages held by America in Guantanamo bay. It is about time the Muslims demanded the release of the thousands of innocent Muslim hostages held in countries all over the world.

The Messenger Muhammad (saw) faced oppression and suffering at the hands of the Quraish, his companions faced persecution and constant onslaught but they were never silenced, indeed throughout Muslim history the Muslims have been persecuted but they were never silenced, hence even today, against continuous attack, we will not be silenced!

“The believers, men and women, are Awliyah (helpers, supporters, protectors) of one another; they command good (justice) and forbid evil (oppression)…” (Tawbah 9:71)“

I’ve not heard too much about the demonstration, but I do agree that as much of the above is apparant in relation to the daily Muslim experiance of many of us in Britain, such a demostration has its benefits. It is our right as citizens to protest our concerns and demand that appropriate changes be made.





NF are going to rip these guys up. And its just going to cause more trouble :(

Surely they're not going to pull through with this?




“O Muslims! do your duty and rise up against oppression.

Demonstrate on 15th of June and end the slience! Come out and speak out, condemn the oppression we face. Respond to the call of Allah and the Messenger.

(10th June 2007, 2:30 - 5pm, outside 10 Downing Street).

Britain has always claimed that she is a free state; the real story is that there is no freedom and no justice for the Muslims. The British Empire was built on the oppression of Muslims and indeed non-Muslims, destroying the Islamic State, kicking the Muslims out of Palestine and forming the Pirate State of Israel are just some of its crimes against the Muslims. This humiliation continues today not only at home but wherever the Muslims are.

Occupation of Muslim Land: They call it liberation and freedom, we call it occupation and domination! Britain is the key ally for America and together they have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims. They have raped our women, murdered our fathers and orphaned our children. First they starve us then they bomb our towns and cities. They arrest and torture our men and boys not even the elderly are spared.

Police Raids: Since September 11th more and more Muslim homes have been raided. It’s not ‘if’ but ‘when’ the Muslim will get raided. Our houses are broken into, doors smashed in, our wives and mothers are manhandled and our children terrorised, screaming with fear as daddy is arrested. The police can do as they please, they can humiliate, beat the Muslim and even shoot them, all safe in the knowledge that Tony Blair will support them, no matter what they do.

Attack on the Veil: You can walk down the street in this land with next to no clothes on, they will call that freedom, but if a Muslim sister wants to wear the veil she is seen as ‘threatening’. Jack Straw removed his veil and showed his true hatred towards Islam and the Muslims when he demanded Muslim sisters remove their veils.

Terror Laws: The government invents a law every other week aimed at putting fear in the hearts of the Muslims, some are even tailor made for particular sheikhs or activists. With these laws the government hopes the Muslims will abandon their support for the Muslims, they hope to stop us standing against Western Terrorism and they hope we will give up our religion. So who are the terrorists? Are they the Muslims who defend their lands and protect their women and children or are they the British who occupy the lands of others?

Media Crusade: Radio, TV, Newspapers and the Internet are all guilty of depicting the Muslims as barbaric blood thirsty terrorists. The truth is that the Muslims are a peaceful community who have lived in this country and had a massive positive impact on it. Whenever a Muslims is arrested or put on trial the media cook a new even more exaggerated story and create a witch hunt and frenzy in which the only verdict for the Muslim is guilty! Today whenever the word Islam or Muslim is mentioned the people think terrorist!

Insulting the Messenger Muhammad (saw): If a celebrity is insulted because of her race the whole world is in uproar, sponsors withdraw their support, there’s a police enquiry, the behaviour is seen to be unacceptable. But if one fifth of the world’s population is offended by the cartoon caricatures of the Messenger Muhammad (saw), this is seen to be quite alright! Rather than punish the perpetrators of this sick joke, the Muslims who peacefully demonstrated against the cartoon were arrested and punished, what was their crime? Answer. Incitement to racial hatred (i.e. insulting the Danes)!

Spying on Muslims: It is not enough that Muslims are spied upon by every government, now John Reid (the Home Secretary) wants us to spy on our children, he wants us to make sure they are not showing any strange behaviour, like coming home late at night (after Ishaa prayer) or leaving early in the morning (at Fajr prayer) or growing a beard or practising Islam or having friends that practise Islam…. . What if John Reid visited the temples of the Hindus and Sikhs or the churches, would he be offering the same advice to their parents?

Torture and Killing: When Britain demanded the release of 15 Navy hostages held by Iran they forgot to mention the hostages held by America in Guantanamo bay. It is about time the Muslims demanded the release of the thousands of innocent Muslim hostages held in countries all over the world.

The Messenger Muhammad (saw) faced oppression and suffering at the hands of the Quraish, his companions faced persecution and constant onslaught but they were never silenced, indeed throughout Muslim history the Muslims have been persecuted but they were never silenced, hence even today, against continuous attack, we will not be silenced!

“The believers, men and women, are Awliyah (helpers, supporters, protectors) of one another; they command good (justice) and forbid evil (oppression)…” (Tawbah 9:71)“

I’ve not heard too much about the demonstration, but I do agree that as much of the above is apparant in relation to the daily Muslim experiance of many of us in Britain, such a demostration has its benefits. It is our right as citizens to protest our concerns and demand that appropriate changes be made.





NF are going to rip these guys up. And its just going to cause more trouble :(

The truth is.. Islam is a HOT and COL religion. check this out-
http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0001/ET25-5336.html



The truth is that the Muslims are a peaceful community who have lived in this country and had a massive positive impact on it

Mate I agree with you Islam is a peaceful religion. Got lots of Muslim friends. But this march is only going to have a negative effect.

Islam in its current form is an enemy of Liberalism.

If they don't like it here, they can always go back.

They should take this protest over to Iran and see what a real lack of freedom is.

BNP, baby!

BNP!

Mate I agree with you Islam is a peaceful religion. Got lots of Muslim friends. But this march is only going to have a negative effect.

I don't know of any peaceful religions, all they seem to do is promote prejudice and arouse conflict.

Its the fundamentalist Muslims that try and impose their beliefs on everyone who isnt the same as them I cant stand.

Their arguments are flawed, but they have a right to protest peacefully. If people only understood on both sides of the muslim/non-muslim fence that

a) Everyone should be allowed to proteset under the set rules; just because the protesters are Islamic shouldn't mean a different set of rules.
b) The very fact that you are allowed to protest should make you realise you aren't that oppressed relative to most other states on this planet, including 99% of Islamic states.

Lol, "you cant have pigs on your bank adverts"

We stop having pigs on our bank adverts.

"were opressed"

:nonono:

I do disagree that muslims cant wear their veil, aslong as it doesnt affect their job or whatever

Matt would you be happy for your kids in the future to be taught by a lady wrapped up in a veil like that?

When I was a kid I used to get much enjoyment out of watching a fit teacher bending down and revealing her "boobies". Great times.

I have no time for these religious people. They are the ones who promote oppression which is why they require women to wear veils when out in public.

Islam is a cancer which needs to be excised.

I have no time for these religious people. They are the ones who promote oppression which is why they require women to wear veils when out in public.

Islam is a cancer which needs to be excised.

And your a racist motherfocker!!!!:killyou:

There's good and bad in every religion man.....

Islam is not about terrorism like it portrayed in the media, terrorism is wrong and the extremists only do this, and there are some extremists in every religion, Islam does not condone such unlawful acts and neither does it encourage them...

But you have to understand, if you rape our moms, sisters, kill our fathers, destroy our homes, torture us, occupy a country for no reason, treat us like ****, try to inflame anger by doing wrong acts just to see what our reaction is, then what choice do these people have....

There's good and bad in every religion man.....

Islam is not about terrorism like it portrayed in the media, terrorism is wrong and the extremists only do this, and there are some extremists in every religion, Islam does not condone such unlawful acts and neither does it encourage them...

But you have to understand, if you rape our moms, sisters, kill our fathers, destroy our homes, torture us, occupy a country for no reason, treat us like ****, try to inflame anger by doing wrong acts just to see what our reaction is, then what choice do these people have....

You've basically contradicted yourself there, you say that there are extremists in every religion, and insult (not even religiously) the British extremists?

Stfu.

But you have to understand, if you rape our moms, sisters, kill our fathers, destroy our homes, torture us, occupy a country for no reason, treat us like ****, try to inflame anger by doing wrong acts just to see what our reaction is, then what choice do these people have....

So you can relate to terrorists who blew up the subways on 7/7? I don't think many of them had raped a muslim or killed a muslim - and as for occupying a country for no reason? - would that country be Iraq? - because i'm sure Saddam Hussain did a whole lot of raping and killing himself, which is why Britain has its big Kurdish asylum seeker influx.

People have a lot of choices, i wouldn't say killing innocent people, including other muslims is the best one.

The more videos of islamic fundamentalists cutting off the heads of hostages like Ken Bigley then the more people are inclined to see Islam as backward, primative, uncivilised and savage religion. I'm not sayng it is, but these are the attitudes you have to be careful of not creating. By saying muslims have no other choice promotes this notion.

I don't see no Muslim council wishing to discuss peace democratically. No ceasefires, no nothing.

And your a racist motherfocker!!!!:killyou:

the meaning of the word 'racism' has passed you by. Is Islam now a race?

ya ****in tool.

Fundamentalist muslims should **** off to a hardline muslim country and live their dream there instead of trying to change whole countries beliefs and way of life. Anyone who is prepared to kill innocents by planting bombs on buses,trains etc because of the war in Iraq is a ****ing coward. If they felt that strongly theyd fly out to Iraq or Afghanistan and join up and fight alongside the fundamentalist ****wits there.
I read somewhere about Muslims protesting because of a advertising billboard near a mosque had a semi dressed woman on and they said it was offensive to them FFS they should move away then if theyre not gonna accept the UK isnt a Islamic state.
This countries better then alot of countries when it comes to tolerance but the fundamentalists want everyone to respect and pander to their religion yet they respect no ****er elses, proper pisses me and loadsa people I know off.
Them veils shouldnt be allowed people can get nicked for wearing ski masks (going eqipped) so whats the difference with them veils??

Fundamentalist muslims should **** off to a hardline muslim country and live their dream there instead of trying to change whole countries beliefs and way of life. Anyone who is prepared to kill innocents by planting bombs on buses,trains etc because of the war in Iraq is a ****ing coward. If they felt that strongly theyd fly out to Iraq or Afghanistan and join up and fight alongside the fundamentalist ****wits there.
I read somewhere about Muslims protesting because of a advertising billboard near a mosque had a semi dressed woman on and they said it was offensive to them FFS they should move away then if theyre not gonna accept the UK isnt a Islamic state.
This countries better then alot of countries when it comes to tolerance but the fundamentalists want everyone to respect and pander to their religion yet they respect no ****er elses, proper pisses me and loadsa people I know off.
Them veils shouldnt be allowed people can get nicked for wearing ski masks (going eqipped) so whats the difference with them veils??


Well said.

Extremists religion can not live without spreading, they are basically a parasite that will distroy itself if it does not consume others around it.
Thus, extremists of any type, and I mean jews and christians as well as muslims, should just **** off.

Oh yes, and you wanna know why does religious extremism of any sort exist? Its first goal is to have a total control of its hosts, so when these al qaeda guys, or the president of Iran are preaching the end of western world, they really could care less about it, they just want more control and power over their followers and the influx of new ones.

Islam in its current form is an enemy of Liberalism.

Yep they replaced the COMMIES...

ISLAM IS THE CANCER of humanity..
There is no place for religion in Politics.. In fact in todays world.. there is no place for religion period..It should be a personal thing.. and that is that..

Yep they replaced the COMMIES...

ISLAM IS THE CANCER of humanity..
There is no place for religion in Politics.. In fact in todays world.. there is no place for religion period..It should be a personal thing.. and that is that..

Islam is the way of life.

Welter, I can't believe you actually think that - Islam is no different to any other religion in essence - just as BB writes. The differences today is that Islam has more power in the middle east than other religions have around the world, although the Christian community seems to have quite a bit of power in the US.

Easy_mas, I assume you mean Islam is A way of life. It certainly isn't the only one, nor is it superior. In fact, there is much room for improvement in Islamic culture, particularly regarding the treatment of women.

You've basically contradicted yourself there, you say that there are extremists in every religion, and insult (not even religiously) the British extremists?

Stfu.

Actually you wanka!!! I haven't contradicted myself and i did not insult the british extremist, what i meant was that every religion has extremists including Islam and i for one am strongly against terrorism attacks like 7/7..

I was merely saying this is what is happening in the middle east and those were the reasons why those acts are carried out in middle east...


But you cant base a whole religion on a few extremists....

Jeez.....:nonono:

the meaning of the word 'racism' has passed you by. Is Islam now a race?

ya ****in tool.

I aint no racist... And NO!! Islam is a religoin, not a race....

:*******:

Fundamentalist muslims should **** off to a hardline muslim country and live their dream there instead of trying to change whole countries beliefs and way of life. Anyone who is prepared to kill innocents by planting bombs on buses,trains etc because of the war in Iraq is a ****ing coward. If they felt that strongly theyd fly out to Iraq or Afghanistan and join up and fight alongside the fundamentalist ****wits there.
I read somewhere about Muslims protesting because of a advertising billboard near a mosque had a semi dressed woman on and they said it was offensive to them FFS they should move away then if theyre not gonna accept the UK isnt a Islamic state.
This countries better then alot of countries when it comes to tolerance but the fundamentalists want everyone to respect and pander to their religion yet they respect no ****er elses, proper pisses me and loadsa people I know off.
Them veils shouldnt be allowed people can get nicked for wearing ski masks (going eqipped) so whats the difference with them veils??

LMAO.... Wat a load of bollocks!!!!!

Yep they replaced the COMMIES...

ISLAM IS THE CANCER of humanity..
There is no place for religion in Politics.. In fact in todays world.. there is no place for religion period..It should be a personal thing.. and that is that..

If you havent got any good points to make then just shut up.....

Yep they replaced the COMMIES...

ISLAM IS THE CANCER of humanity..
There is no place for religion in Politics.. In fact in todays world.. there is no place for religion period..It should be a personal thing.. and that is that..

Complete bull****

Every religion has extremism, including Islam, Christianity, Jews, so you have to yourself be intelligent enough not to conceive this as the basis of the entire religion, I am strongly against terrosrim attacks in the UK, that is wrong and is not allowed in Islam... I mean look at the BNP and their policies, they are more silent and deadly, o.k, they dont plan to blow up buses, but they are still extremists, our only downfall is that we get more angry and get caught up in controversies...

Maybe the extremists shuld go bak to their homeland but thats not for us to say....

As I said, well maybe alluded to, Islam is absolutely normal religion(if you can call religion normal), its the people who have the direct responsibility over the events and political situation over there and they use Islam as a tool of power over their people and justification of their actions. And while you can bash Islam all you want, it will change nothing, replacing these people and changing the culture of violence and warmonging spread by them is the key.....or you can stick with Drew's plan and just nuke the mother****ers into oblivion.

The problem with Islam and religion in general is that it is based on complete and utter bollocks.

I dont want people coming over here, preaching about this and that, opening their own schools to teach other kids about this perverse view of the world.

Every place i've ever visited in Britain which has a high percentage of muslims is always a complete **** site. Full of litter, grown men walking around in pajamas selling rancid meat out of vans. Over populated, cess pools of filth which are rife with crime.

all religions cause wars

this has nothing to do with how wrong the Muslim religion is, its just a few idiot radicals spreading hate. EVERY religion has them and they make their own doctrine according to THEIR own interpretation.

anyone who thinks that its a flawed religion, compared to another religion. i welcome the comparison.

we should be making this about those ****eng idiot radicals.

Every religion has extremism, including Islam, Christianity, Jews, so you have to yourself be intelligent enough not to conceive this as the basis of the entire religion, I am strongly against terrosrim attacks in the UK, that is wrong and is not allowed in Islam... I mean look at the BNP and their policies, they are more silent and deadly, o.k, they dont plan to blow up buses, but they are still extremists, our only downfall is that we get more angry and get caught up in controversies...

Maybe the extremists shuld go bak to their homeland but thats not for us to say....
we it is for us to say because its our country and not theres

we it is for us to say because its our country and not theres

True. I mean, what the **** is an extremist doing over here anyway... wait i can guess.. an asylum seeker?

Thats the gratitude. Its like i run into your house complaining of someone trying to kill me, then when i get in your house i blow the ****ing thing up.

Quite frankly, i can see why governments want to torture and murder them, if there only priority in life is blow themselves and a bus load of civilians up, in the name of a backward religion.

Welter, I can't believe you actually think that - Islam is no different to any other religion in essence - just as BB writes. The differences today is that Islam has more power in the middle east than other religions have around the world, although the Christian community seems to have quite a bit of power in the US.

Easy_mas, I assume you mean Islam is A way of life. It certainly isn't the only one, nor is it superior. In fact, there is much room for improvement in Islamic culture, particularly regarding the treatment of women.

its not A way of life but the way of life.

another thing about treatment of women i dont go around in a libreal society saying that they treat women badly because mostly are used as tools but in islam women are one of the important thing in the whole society that we should value it.

i retired from this forum but as a muslim if someone say wrong about islam then i reply back. you could inslut me beigning an arab or from this family or people of the camel or anything but if you insult islam i will reply back for sure

This is the conflict of culture you wont change my culture and i wont change your even in the long run. but you know what is right or wrong and you could search for the truth about it and change but it is all in your hands there. educate yourself and dont judge and this world goes for all.

I wasn't aware I was insulting Islam eazy - you do realise that by saying Islam is THE way of life you are insulting their way of life.....

And yes, I believe that differences shouod be respected, but that there are minimum standards that all societies should meet. One of those is equality of each and every citizen. This means that women, people of all religions, races, ages should have the same rights and responsibilities enshrined in law. I cannot ever accept that people will have different rights and responsibilites because of their gender.

Retiring from the forum?? I never get this.

I wasn't aware I was insulting Islam eazy - you do realise that by saying Islam is THE way of life you are insulting their way of life.....

And yes, I believe that differences shouod be respected, but that there are minimum standards that all societies should meet. One of those is equality of each and every citizen. This means that women, people of all religions, races, ages should have the same rights and responsibilities enshrined in law. I cannot ever accept that people will have different rights and responsibilites because of their gender.

Retiring from the forum?? I never get this.


well there are many famous women who where around the time of the prophet.

but on todays standard what are women rights and what are the draw the line?

Many women believe that they really dont need a man but infact each one needs the other espically for a women because she is more emotional. That is why women are much better parents than there male couterpart but what if this women doesnt not have proities of here kids who are already born but here work? does this kid have right to have an mother touch and emotion to carry his pain?

yes the father could help but nobody understand more than a women and the problem the media is taking the women out of the main point. yes she could work but she does not have the right to forget her childern. her family alway must come first.

and by saying the women is as same as man so you mean that it is okay for a women to work jobs like mechine and construction worker or in the minning and that is not suitable for women but work like a teacher, clerk or a nurse, doctor is something more suitable.

another thing not all muslim treat there women as the media shows just because a women choose to cover her face or wear the hijab doesnt mean it was forced on here the same thing that in many western society there are many people who assualt her and rape her and many other stuff. one example the many of the westerns view the women as a sex objects

I think people should have the freedom to make their own choices.

Women in Europe and the US amongst other places have the freedom to choose what they do, how they dress, etc etc. I might not personally like or understand their choices, but I'd defend their right to make a choice.

If a woman wants to wear a Hijab or any of the other veils she can do, I don't care either way. You're missing my point eazy, it's about freedom of choice.

Any religion which proclaims that its followers should wage war against its enemies should be banned.

Muslims, whether they admit it or not, are bound to seek the destruction of all non believers and people who believe in other religions.

This type of rubbish has no place in modern society, they should be thrown out of the UK.

Islam is still stuck in 900 AD. They talk about the Crusades like it was yesterday.

Any religion which proclaims that its followers should wage war against its enemies should be banned.

Muslims, whether they admit it or not, are bound to seek the destruction of all non believers and people who believe in other religions.

This type of rubbish has no place in modern society, they should be thrown out of the UK.
Are you going to back your argument up and say why you believe this?

Islam is still stuck in 900 AD. They talk about the Crusades like it was yesterday.
Specifically, who has talked about the Crusades like it was yesterday? There are roughly 1.2 billion muslims in the world today, do all of them talk about the crusades like it was yesterday, or maybe just a few. Would you care to name names or just continue making generalisations?

I think people should have the freedom to make their own choices.

Women in Europe and the US amongst other places have the freedom to choose what they do, how they dress, etc etc. I might not personally like or understand their choices, but I'd defend their right to make a choice.

If a woman wants to wear a Hijab or any of the other veils she can do, I don't care either way. You're missing my point eazy, it's about freedom of choice.

but people should put a line on freedom of choose because sometimes it prevent other people to be free.

Are you going to back your argument up and say why you believe this?


Specifically, who has talked about the Crusades like it was yesterday? There are roughly 1.2 billion muslims in the world today, do all of them talk about the crusades like it was yesterday, or maybe just a few. Would you care to name names or just continue making generalisations?

Oh....this guy named Osama Bin Laden. He lamented also about the loss of Spain to the Christians also. Are you going to ask for proof of signature and letterhead for verification? Do I have to really specifically say something like "exactly 64.3 muslims talk about the Crusades like it was yesterday, here's the tape."

Jesus Mohammed Budha! Just accept that Muslims tend to be less tolerant than Christians. If Christians today are as bad as Muslims, as you might argue, there would be a hell of a lot more suicides and Crusades than now. A WHOLE LOT MORE.

And pork tastes better than lamb. :D

Oh....this guy named Osama Bin Laden. He lamented also about the loss of Spain to the Christians also. Are you going to ask for proof of signature and letterhead for verification? Do I have to really specifically say something like "exactly 64.3 muslims talk about the Crusades like it was yesterday, here's the tape."

Jesus Mohammed Budha! Just accept that Muslims tend to be less tolerant than Christians. If Christians today are as bad as Muslims, as you might argue, there would be a hell of a lot more suicides and Crusades than now. A WHOLE LOT MORE.

And pork tastes better than lamb. :D

So does Bin Laden represent and speak for all 1.2 billion muslims? Because when you said 'they' I kind of assumed that you were talking about all of them.

So does Bin Laden represent and speak for all 1.2 billion muslims? Because when you said 'they' I kind of assumed that you were talking about all of them.

I'd say pretty much ALL of Saudi Arabians feel the same. That's a good portion. Sudan is about in the same boat as Saudi.

knock knock people! It's 2006! It's not 900 AD anymore! A little social progress might help your cause.

I'd say pretty much ALL of Saudi Arabians feel the same. That's a good portion. Sudan is about in the same boat as Saudi.

knock knock people! It's 2006! It's not 900 AD anymore! A little social progress might help your cause.

Have you been to Saudi Arabia?

Some of you guys have no idea about the rest of the world.

Having travelled to the middle east, and having heard reports from friends of mine who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, the impression I get is that people in Islamic states are not fundamentally different from people in the west. Governments are different yes, but people are people. Wealth, power and sex dominate their lives as much as they do ours. The stories I've heard about the Iraqi people are hilarious - these guys are by and large obsessed with the same facets of life that we are, the dirty little buggers.

Some of you guys have no idea about the rest of the world.

Having travelled to the middle east, and having heard reports from friends of mine who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, the impression I get is that people in Islamic states are not fundamentally different from people in the west. Governments are different yes, but people are people. Wealth, power and sex dominate their lives as much as they do ours. The stories I've heard about the Iraqi people are hilarious - these guys are by and large obsessed with the same facets of life that we are, the dirty little buggers.

Wise words Mr Wolf.

Have you been to Saudi Arabia?

My parents and sisters lived there for about 5 years. I wasn't allowed because 15 year old non-Muslims are not allowed there (unless you're there as a contract worker).

My parents, whenever they were together, had to always have their marriage license to prove they are married or risk getting stoned to death for adultery. They were not allowed to dine together in restaurants as women were designated to the female side and not allowed to dine with men. My mother was not allowed to drive or have a job.

When a Saudi employee was negligent with his job and caused a ship's engine room to burn, he was fired. But the government forced the company to re-instate him because Allah allowed the accident to happen. Not because the Saudi was negligent.

And...um....practicing Christianity, even in the American compound, was strictly prohibited.

I'd say pretty much ALL of Saudi Arabians feel the same. That's a good portion. Sudan is about in the same boat as Saudi.

knock knock people! It's 2006! It's not 900 AD anymore! A little social progress might help your cause.

BTW, it's 2007 now.

BTW, it's 2007 now.

Yes. twas a typo. But the point still stands. My room mate back in 1986 was Muslim. We talked a lot about history in Europe. He brought up the part about the Crusades and stuff. Nice guy, even though he seemed rather annoyed about the past. At the time, he hoped to not go back to Indonesia coz he knew **** was gonna go down the drain.

the problem with people they judging without educating themself and there judgment are based not on fact but something they see and experience and that is not good to debate on.

Snoopy you father and mother went there knowing the culture so dont complian about it if they wanted to go somewhere else they could have worked in UK or Dubai or somewhere else.

the problem with people they judging without educating themself and there judgment are based not on fact but something they see and experience and that is not good to debate on.

Snoopy you father and mother went there knowing the culture so dont complian about it if they wanted to go somewhere else they could have worked in UK or Dubai or somewhere else.

Where did I complain? I just told the facts. There was no "Saudis were stupid, why do they do this?" They knew about Saudi be a backwards ass country and they went anyway becuase the pay was good, the housing was paid for. They would lose some of their freedom for 10 months out of the year (they would vacation outside of Saudi). They sent me to a dorm school while they were there.

My parents and sisters lived there for about 5 years. I wasn't allowed because 15 year old non-Muslims are not allowed there (unless you're there as a contract worker).

My parents, whenever they were together, had to always have their marriage license to prove they are married or risk getting stoned to death for adultery. They were not allowed to dine together in restaurants as women were designated to the female side and not allowed to dine with men. My mother was not allowed to drive or have a job.

When a Saudi employee was negligent with his job and caused a ship's engine room to burn, he was fired. But the government forced the company to re-instate him because Allah allowed the accident to happen. Not because the Saudi was negligent.

And...um....practicing Christianity, even in the American compound, was strictly prohibited.

Hmmm, interesting, but like OptimusWolf said, these are government policies and the government and the people are not the same entity. Out of curiosity though Snoopy, based on what you've said I've kind of assumed that you are white and christian, am I right in that assumption?

Also, when were your family and sisters over there Snoopy? And what exactly did your room mate say about the crusades? I find the crusades really interesting.

Hmmm, interesting, but like OptimusWolf said, these are government policies and the government and the people are not the same entity. Out of curiosity though Snoopy, based on what you've said I've kind of assumed that you are white and christian, am I right in that assumption?

Also, when were your family and sisters over there Snoopy? And what exactly did your room mate say about the crusades? I find the crusades really interesting.

I have NOTHING against the religion of Islam. But it's the hard line and ultra conservative Imams that are poisoning good Muslims into hating and fearing Christians. I know Christians have not been good to Muslims, particularly in Palestine. It's a cycle that can only be broken by God and that's through the destruction of that whole area. Coz we're too stupid to stop fighting.

I'm not white. I'm not an expert on Islam. but I do know we worship the same God/Allah of Abraham. We should be brothers, not enemies. But dammit....a lot of the imams still push their 900 AD rhetoric today.

My parents and sisters went there in 1982

The first Crusade was against another Christian nation, the Eastern Roman Empire (Greek Orthodox Church). The pope was a greedy bastard and wanted the destruction of the rich Byzantine empire. The next Crusades was later aimed at Jerusalem.

Since then, the Muslims who were once tolerant of Christians, have since become xenophobic because of the Crusades.

I have NOTHING against the religion of Islam. But it's the hard line and ultra conservative Imams that are poisoning good Muslims into hating and fearing Christians. I know Christians have not been good to Muslims, particularly in Palestine. It's a cycle that can only be broken by God and that's through the destruction of that whole area. Coz we're too stupid to stop fighting.

I'm not white. I'm not an expert on Islam. but I do know we worship the same God/Allah of Abraham. We should be brothers, not enemies. But dammit....a lot of the imams still push their 900 AD rhetoric today.

My parents and sisters went there in 1982

The first Crusade was against another Christian nation, the Eastern Roman Empire (Greek Orthodox Church). The pope was a greedy bastard and wanted the destruction of the rich Byzantine empire. The next Crusades was later aimed at Jerusalem.

Since then, the Muslims who were once tolerant of Christians, have since become xenophobic because of the Crusades.
I'm having a go at yer, I'm genuinely intrigued by what you've got to say.

So assuming they went over in 82 and stayed for five years then the events of which you are talking happened ten years ago. Do you think things have changed in Saudi Arabia since then, or is the government still as oppressive?

Also, did your family have much to do with the Saudi people, and maybe get to know some of them and discuss what they thought about their government and policies and such like? Or indeed just get know what they were like as people?

One last thing, do you think that we (through the media and other sources over here in the UK, and also America) are conditioned to fear and hate muslims, just like you say the immans poison good muslims to fear and hate christians?

I'm having a go at yer, I'm genuinely intrigued by what you've got to say.

So assuming they went over in 82 and stayed for five years then the events of which you are talking happened ten years ago. Do you think things have changed in Saudi Arabia since then, or is the government still as oppressive?

Also, did your family have much to do with the Saudi people, and maybe get to know some of them and discuss what they thought about their government and policies and such like? Or indeed just get know what they were like as people?

One last thing, do you think that we (through the media and other sources over here in the UK, and also America) are conditioned to fear and hate muslims, just like you say the immans poison good muslims to fear and hate christians?


Nothing changes in Saudi Arabia.

My father was the one allowed to socialize with Saudis. And he socialized only with Saudis he worked with. The few times he did encounter the locals, they were not too friendly with him as they knew he should not be there.

The media can only cover so much material. I know a little bit about movie editing. When you cover 10 days worth of film and you are given 5 minutes of broadcast footage, you will never the get full story. Even if given 2 hours of air time, you still can't get all of the elements of the story in. The viewer must make a concious effort to get their own information. The viewer is just as responsible as the media when there is an event that affects them emotionally and psychologically. The various medias should fill in the gaps or most of it that others have missed.

Why am I being interviewed? :)

Where did I complain? I just told the facts. There was no "Saudis were stupid, why do they do this?" They knew about Saudi be a backwards ass country and they went anyway becuase the pay was good, the housing was paid for. They would lose some of their freedom for 10 months out of the year (they would vacation outside of Saudi). They sent me to a dorm school while they were there.

but it looks like you hate Saudis.

if you take away the element of who they are it would be the same with use if we go to britian or anywhere else.

another thing there was an incident in my country where two english and 1 irish spat on there manager who is an arab palestine and called him a ****ing arab and that is inside an arab country.

when you come to a country you have to take there rule and i dont know who your are and how he acted and not trying to be baise but i am basing on evidence because assupmtion will only confuse you

True. I mean, what the **** is an extremist doing over here anyway... wait i can guess.. an asylum seeker?

Thats the gratitude. Its like i run into your house complaining of someone trying to kill me, then when i get in your house i blow the ****ing thing up.

Quite frankly, i can see why governments want to torture and murder them, if there only priority in life is blow themselves and a bus load of civilians up, in the name of a backward religion.

ermmmm... NO!!!

The 7/7 extremist bombers were born in the UK and were no Asylum Seekers....

So, your argument is flawed, by you proclaiming that the terrorist bombers in YOUR country came from abroad, well they never!!

I mean there are ****ing terrorist raids happening everywhere, ALL of the raids have proved nothing, and in one circumstance a guy was shot by a police officer in his house, he weren't no terrorist.. Nor did he want to blow up a bus....

And the police never even apologised for shooting the innocent civillian...

Around 99% of the muslim immigrants have nothing to do with extremism and have only come to this country to lead a normal life and get a job and earn a decent living because theres a load of foreigners in there country for no reason at all that are crippling their economy..

we it is for us to say because its our country and not theres

We all pay our taxes and contribute to this country, and so do they..

Even the 7/7 bombers who were born in the UK and others that lived in the UK all payed there taxes, it wasnt as if they were illigal immigrants.. Most even had a british passport...

Im not condoning the bombing because they were wrong... Just implying that this aint YOUR country.....

Are yeah, your sentence dont make sense!!!!:banana:

anyway about the Crusade it when Bush invaded he quoted " This crusade going to take awhile"

another thing is the Pope is trying to change the EU constiution to more christian thing and he praised Poland for beinging a good example for a christian country

the problem with people they judging without educating themself and there judgment are based not on fact but something they see and experience and that is not good to debate on.

Snoopy you father and mother went there knowing the culture so dont complian about it if they wanted to go somewhere else they could have worked in UK or Dubai or somewhere else.

Well Said!!!!

Nothing changes in Saudi Arabia.

My father was the one allowed to socialize with Saudis. And he socialized only with Saudis he worked with. The few times he did encounter the locals, they were not too friendly with him as they knew he should not be there.

The media can only cover so much material. I know a little bit about movie editing. When you cover 10 days worth of film and you are given 5 minutes of broadcast footage, you will never the get full story. Even if given 2 hours of air time, you still can't get all of the elements of the story in. The viewer must make a concious effort to get their own information. The viewer is just as responsible as the media when there is an event that affects them emotionally and psychologically. The various medias should fill in the gaps or most of it that others have missed.

Why am I being interviewed? :)

So from what you are saying I would say that your father had only limited experience of interacting with the Saudi people. Therefore, based on those experiences, it would not be possible for him, or you, to comment on how they feel, as you have done earlier in this thread.

I would say that the ideal of journalism is to be responsible to the truth. If stories are being manipulated to suit certain agendas then they are not being responsible to the truth. You may say that the viewer/reader must take the responsibility on himself, but the sad fact is that most people will not and will take what they hear on the news to be the gospel truth.

We are being preached to just as much as anyone.

Where did I complain? I just told the facts. There was no "Saudis were stupid, why do they do this?" They knew about Saudi be a backwards ass country and they went anyway becuase the pay was good, the housing was paid for. They would lose some of their freedom for 10 months out of the year (they would vacation outside of Saudi). They sent me to a dorm school while they were there.

How can you even call Saudi a backward ass country!!!!

Based on what!! surely not on its economy because it is a highly economically developed country....

So they went to stay in Saudi to make MONEY....... And i betcha they knew the countrys freedom rights...

Its the same thing now.... Arabs, etc come to UK to make money!!!!

Just turns out that 0.0000000000001% or even less are extremists!!!

So from what you are saying I would say that your father had only limited experience of interacting with the Saudi people. Therefore, based on those experiences, it would not be possible for him, or you, to comment on how they feel, as you have done earlier in this thread.

I would say that the ideal of journalism is to be responsible to the truth. If stories are being manipulated to suit certain agendas then they are not being responsible to the truth. You may say that the viewer/reader must take the responsibility on himself, but the sad fact is that most people will not and will take what they hear on the news to be the gospel truth.

We are being preached to just as much as anyone.


Limited? And so you're an expert and I should just ignore my father's experience? You make a weak argument here. You're not going to convince me otherwise. Saudi is rich but still a third world state in terms of human rights.

Saudi Arabia is living in the old world.

Just recently a Saudi man had his wife stoned to death because she drove a car.

When a dormitory for girls was burning down in the wee hours of the morning, the girls were forced back into the burning building because the moral police began to whip the girls for not wearing enough clothing. Many of the girls who HAD escaped ended up dying.

How can you even call Saudi a backward ass country!!!!

Based on what!! surely not on its economy because it is a highly economically developed country....

So they went to stay in Saudi to make MONEY....... And i betcha they knew the countrys freedom rights...

Its the same thing now.... Arabs, etc come to UK to make money!!!!

Just turns out that 0.0000000000001% or even less are extremists!!!

My father worked for an American company contracted by the Saudi Gov't. He had to go, not because Saudi is a beacon of Freedom.

I never said Saudi was poor. It's backwards in terms of morality. They don't believe women are equal to men.

but it looks like you hate Saudis.

if you take away the element of who they are it would be the same with use if we go to britian or anywhere else.

another thing there was an incident in my country where two english and 1 irish spat on there manager who is an arab palestine and called him a ****ing arab and that is inside an arab country.

when you come to a country you have to take there rule and i dont know who your are and how he acted and not trying to be baise but i am basing on evidence because assupmtion will only confuse you

You can make your own assumptions about me, I don't care.

So you beleive that if an Arab goes to Britian, he/she shouldn't force Brits their own cultural beliefs, huh? Guess, next time a billboard with scantilly clad women is raised, Muslims shouldn't complain.

My father was the one allowed to socialize with Saudis. And he socialized only with Saudis he worked with. The few times he did encounter the locals, they were not too friendly with him as they knew he should not be there.

Would you not say that that ^ is limited interaction with Saudi people? And from this you make sweeping statements claiming to know how ALL Saudi Arabians feel.

Would you not say that that ^ is limited interaction with Saudi people? And from this you make sweeping statements claiming to know how ALL Saudi Arabians feel.

If you want to play semantecs, please go ahead. Enjoy yourself.

You can make your own assumptions about me, I don't care.

So you beleive that if an Arab goes to Britian, he/she shouldn't force Brits their own cultural beliefs, huh? Guess, next time a billboard with scantilly clad women is raised, Muslims shouldn't complain.

well the difference that your father came there to make money and not to have relaxing time in the beach while many of muslim brits are born in britian.

Snoop people are people you got the good and the bad everywhere. and even as individual nobody is pure evil but some people are more evil than other or some show it. and nobody knows what inside a person. If believe in britian there are good people and there are bad people if some people think like you i would say every british is a hooligian and that is not the case

Some people believe that all cultures are equal. I don't agree. It's obvious that culture in certain areas of the Arab world is inferior to wester culture, and is more akin to the culture of 1400s Europe. This doesn't always seem to have been the case as the Arab world was streets ahead during the middle ages.

well the difference that your father came there to make money and not to have relaxing time in the beach while many of muslim brits are born in britian.

Snoop people are people you got the good and the bad everywhere. and even as individual nobody is pure evil but some people are more evil than other or some show it. and nobody knows what inside a person. If believe in britian there are good people and there are bad people if some people think like you i would say every british is a hooligian and that is not the case

My opinion of Britain compared to my opinion of the middle east is like Heaven and Hell. Britain is Heaven, in case you're wondering. The human rights violations in the Middle East is pathetic.

Some people believe that all cultures are equal. I don't agree. It's obvious that culture in certain areas of the Arab world is inferior to wester culture, and is more akin to the culture of 1400s Europe. This doesn't always seem to have been the case as the Arab world was streets ahead during the middle ages.

I agree with you in this one

My opinion of Britain compared to my opinion of the middle east is like Heaven and Hell. Britain is Heaven, in case you're wondering. The human rights violations in the Middle East is pathetic.

i dont understand you. you are debating about human rights or Saudi treatment of your father or Islam because you are not on the topic at all.

Are you going to back your argument up and say why you believe this?


I believe it because it is one of the main ideologies of Islamic faith. Jihad is basically the protection and expansion of the Islamic state by any means necessary. This means they have to destory all enemies of Islam and convert any non believers.

Does this type of 'religion' have a place in a democracy?

I dont believe it does, I have no time for these people. The media machine in Britain deliberately waters down any reference to these facts to prevent people knowing the truth about what Islam is, and how its members behave.

Christianity has had very similar doctrines over the ages. In fact the church was one of the last sections of society to stop and condemn slavery. Seriously guys - take a step back, learn some history and use some reason before you state that Islam itself is any different to any strict ideology.

I agree that it has no place in British politics, but I'm not going to endorse the approach of displacing Islamic rule in the middle east because I don't like it. When the people in the middle east have had enough, it will become clear and then we can support them should they not get their own way.

LMAO.... Wat a load of bollocks!!!!!

How the **** is what I posted bollocks?? its true 100% true!!! not all muslims are bad but the 1s who are need sorting out asap.

Fasman you got issues with ya self ,cant you see the taliban types want to enslave everyone??

All religions have their bad points but fundamentalist Islam is still in the dark ages.

All religions have their bad points but fundamentalist Islam is still in the dark ages.

Been saying that all along. They are still stuck in 900 AD.

Yeah and they always will be when theyve got followers who cant see that.

Fasman you got issues with ya self ,cant you see the taliban types want to enslave everyone??

Trust me.. i aint got any issues...

You have issues..

You talk about Taliban as if Taliban represents the whole Islamic religion....

Taliban cant do ****.... They aint tryin to enslave everyone.. How can they when they're in their own country ****in hidin away.....

And the Taliban types.. im presuming you mean extremists.... So already we have stereotyping....

Well these, 'Taliban Types' dont go around enslaving everyone, tell me how???

Whenever, you try to have an argument with someone about Islam, they'll always go and talk about Bin laden and taliban, Well do some research about Bin Laden and find about his background and who he really was, etc 99.9999% of muslims couldnt care less about him... It's not that Bush can't find him, its that Bush dont want to find him....

The Taliban had Afghanistan under the cosh the people were enslaved. I know Bin laden was proper well in with the Bushes through the oil and the money that goes with it. I
I'm not saying all muslims are extremists but what I'm saying is the extremists have no right to try and impose their will on others and they dont respect anyone elses views or religions and thats FACT.

Personally I can`t see how any intelligent person could believe in islam or allah or any of that other bull****.

I cant believe people still walk around believing in this crap in the 21st century.

Personally I can`t see how any intelligent person could believe in islam or allah or any of that other bull****.

I cant believe people still walk around believing in this crap in the 21st century.

Could You keep your stupid ****ing worthless views to yourself!!

Wanka!!!:killyou:

Their arguments are flawed, but they have a right to protest peacefully. If people only understood on both sides of the muslim/non-muslim fence that

a) Everyone should be allowed to proteset under the set rules; just because the protesters are Islamic shouldn't mean a different set of rules.
b) The very fact that you are allowed to protest should make you realise you aren't that oppressed relative to most other states on this planet, including 99% of Islamic states.

Well said. And that is the reason they would not pull that in thier native land. They would probably be beheaded. Although I do noy believe in the cause and would perscribe to the "if you don't like it, leave" mentality, they still have the right to protest. That being said, it will anger most and likely make things worse.

Personally I can`t see how any intelligent person could believe in islam or allah or any of that other bull****.

I cant believe people still walk around believing in this crap in the 21st century.

I think the same argument could be made for all religions. All religions are purely beliefs and none can be substatiate with cold hard proof. No different than a superhero or the tooth fairy, it's just that they majority of people on this planet need something to believe and make thenselves feel _____ (superior, stronger, belonging to a group, etc.). I could care less what people believe in as long as they do not impose thier belifs on my or as long as thier beliefs do not infringe on my personal freedoms. It is not about history or religion, it is really about sociology and everyone thinks they are better than the rest (some more than others) and religion is one way or belonging to the better group. If not religion, it would be race, gender, profession, or any number of different classifications that people would be waring over.

The "gods" didn't tell the Catholics to concor and "tame" the savages and Allah did not tell the muslims that other religons are evil. MEN created these ideas out of greed and the masses follow. I'm not saying that all Catholics and Muslims feel they need to concur or convert people of different beliefs, but most, if not all believe that their religion is the best, which ussualy results in them discounting other beliefs.

Personally I can`t see how any intelligent person could believe in islam or allah or any of that other bull****.

I cant believe people still walk around believing in this crap in the 21st century.

Could You keep your stupid ****ing worthless views to yourself!!

Wanka!!!:killyou:

Thanks for proving my point.

Thanks for proving my point.

ermmmmm... Not really

Now your chatting ****...

You said "I can`t see how any intelligent person could believe in islam or allah or any of that other bull****"...

the only reason you said that was to get a reaction which you clearly got...

It was uncalled for and you only said it to cause controversy...

so by me replying to your pathetic child like behaviour does not make me unintelligent, i just have to stand up for my belief..

Thank You.... goodbye!!!!:nutkick:

ermmmmm... Not really

Now your chatting ****...

You said "I can`t see how any intelligent person could believe in islam or allah or any of that other bull****"...

the only reason you said that was to get a reaction which you clearly got...

It was uncalled for and you only said it to cause controversy...

so by me replying to your pathetic child like behaviour does not make me unintelligent, i just have to stand up for my belief..

Thank You.... goodbye!!!!:nutkick:

How is the refusal to believe in a foundationless ideology which lacks even the smallest amount of evidence, child-like?

The sad thing is, you are the one who is child-like. You are too weak to exist in this world on your own, you have therefore decided to believe in some mystical, cloud-dwelling being which governs this world and whom you must prey to 6 times a day.

Islam is for the weak.

How is the refusal to believe in a foundationless ideology which lacks even the smallest amount of evidence, child-like?

The sad thing is, you are the one who is child-like. You are too weak to exist in this world on your own, you have therefore decided to believe in some mystical, cloud-dwelling being which governs this world and whom you must prey to 6 times a day.

Islam is for the weak.

Now, your talking TOTAL nonsense, im starting to think your a 12 yr old pathetic child whose looking for a reaction by acting stupid....

You claim you refuse to believe in Islam, well thats up2u no-ones forcing you, but the thing is that your earlier remarks were just pure racism and hatred and were uncalled for..

I did not say anything about other religions because i respect other religions, you clearly on the other hand keep avoiding my argument and keep cleverely trying to delfect to other subject, first you slag off Islam for no reason and when i confront and ask for your reasons why!! You give an unethical response.....

how does it make me weak if i believe in Islam and am a muslim, explain HOW???

So what your saying is every believer of any religon is weak because they cannot exist in this world on their own and they need some guidance....

So all believers except atheists and non-believers are weak, no matter, if their muslims, hindus, jews, christians, buddhists!!!

Well your argument once again is flawed and i wouldnt even say its an argument its more of 'i'm getting bored, lets try to stir **** up'

Are yeah, we pray 5 times a day not 6..:banana:

do some research you Stupid Pathetic child!!!!

How is the refusal to believe in a foundationless ideology which lacks even the smallest amount of evidence, child-like?

The sad thing is, you are the one who is child-like. You are too weak to exist in this world on your own, you have therefore decided to believe in some mystical, cloud-dwelling being which governs this world and whom you must prey to 6 times a day.

Islam is for the weak.

you could tell that for at the time where we conqured Europe.

Muslims are weak because many of them forgot about islam and that is way we are in this state. there isnt love between ourselves and once we acknowlege one another as muslims brothers wheather he is egyptian, jordain, pakstiany...etc then islamic countires are going to be strong and that is the biggest fear for the western invadors so they pratice a principle of dividing the people up so instead of working together they fighting each other and there is great mistrust between on another the british did it to the Indian and the muslim world

another thing If you seen the history of Islam and the pre-Islam barbaric arabs ( even though i am an arab) you will notice how Islam was developed and Islam is not for arabs or middle eastern but it is a relgion that all people should imbrace it. from first war with about 100 muslim against the more than 2000 people of Kurash where muslims only had 7 swords and won them.

another thing about Islam is the Islam spread out due to peace evidence if the two arab tribes in Medina who where at war for many year and the prophet Mohammed PBUH made peace with them and that tells you something it hard to lead a whole nation into peace.

Why should Islam be immune to criticism? It's a belief and all beliefs are there to be challenged. At the same time the adherents of such beliefs shouldn't be insulted just because of their beliefs or their race.


Personally I just can't believe in Islam, its just too incredible and Mohammad was not someone who sets a good moral example, though he was a bona fide genius. I also think believing in a God who sends a message in the form of a book is illogical, if a God was that powerful then it wouldn't need to give us a bloody book.

You know what....I'll debate most things all day, but this thread once again proves to me that you cannot rationally debate religion with believers. I've had close friends who are strong Christians and there is no point debating religion with them, they cannot rationalise the subject at all.

One particular guy was a serious genius - he's an Oxford lecturer now and a concert pianist, but he couldn't talk sensibly about religion. Weird but true unfortunately.

Why should Islam be immune to criticism? It's a belief and all beliefs are there to be challenged. At the same time the adherents of such beliefs shouldn't be insulted just because of their beliefs or their race.


Personally I just can't believe in Islam, its just too incredible and Mohammad was not someone who sets a good moral example, though he was a bona fide genius. I also think believing in a God who sends a message in the form of a book is illogical, if a God was that powerful then it wouldn't need to give us a bloody book.

Fair point... It's one thing trying to have a civilised argument by giving your reasons and opinions thats allowed because thats freedom of speech!!

However, there are others who have this child like behaviour and dont respect others religions or faiths!!!

You know what....I'll debate most things all day, but this thread once again proves to me that you cannot rationally debate religion with believers. I've had close friends who are strong Christians and there is no point debating religion with them, they cannot rationalise the subject at all.

One particular guy was a serious genius - he's an Oxford lecturer now and a concert pianist, but he couldn't talk sensibly about religion. Weird but true unfortunately.

Yep.. i know where you're coming from blud!!!! Feel the same, i could be here all my life trying to argue but theres no point!!!!

Why should Islam be immune to criticism? It's a belief and all beliefs are there to be challenged. At the same time the adherents of such beliefs shouldn't be insulted just because of their beliefs or their race.


Personally I just can't believe in Islam, its just too incredible and Mohammad was not someone who sets a good moral example, though he was a bona fide genius. I also think believing in a God who sends a message in the form of a book is illogical, if a God was that powerful then it wouldn't need to give us a bloody book.

sometimes there is a different between critizing something and sterotyping another thing or group of people. I would call all white british hooligans and they should be baned going overseas incase there is a football match could I, it would be unfair for the real club fans who are not causing trouble to have the live staduim experience.

another thing help comes in many forms a book is just on of them. which thing would you probably remeber more a thing that you wrote 20 years ago or something that you spoke of few days ago? The Quran is just to guide people and give th people a clue there is many evidence of something that is quit new that many are just discovered in the 20th centurey and that is mentioned in the Quran like the development of embroy and the finger print.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1fqFDqoU6g

You know what....I'll debate most things all day, but this thread once again proves to me that you cannot rationally debate religion with believers. I've had close friends who are strong Christians and there is no point debating religion with them, they cannot rationalise the subject at all.

One particular guy was a serious genius - he's an Oxford lecturer now and a concert pianist, but he couldn't talk sensibly about religion. Weird but true unfortunately.

it something the people believe in and another thing is the lifestyle it goes both ways on this one. If i preach about you about Islam you wont be conviencted becase you have to change your lifestlye and culture and people cant change that thing all at once.

so what i do I just give you some information and fact and if you are interested in this thing you will search more and you could choose the right path or at least know it and that is another discision you should make.

What I can't stand is when Muslims go to other countries, those countries must pander to their customs. If it is met with resistance, they all rally and spout hate and give death threats to journalists.

People make fun of Christians all the time. You can bet there will be no rally by Christians or threats of a Crusade. I'm tired of these Jihadic fools.

There was a recent survey among Muslims in America and about a third of them sympathized with the suicide bombers in Isreal and 9/11. Whoever said radical Muslims account for only .0000001% is living in a fantasy world.

it something the people believe in and another thing is the lifestyle it goes both ways on this one. If i preach about you about Islam you wont be conviencted becase you have to change your lifestlye and culture and people cant change that thing all at once.

so what i do I just give you some information and fact and if you are interested in this thing you will search more and you could choose the right path or at least know it and that is another discision you should make.

Actually I change my mind about things every single day of my life. 'Nuff said.

What I can't stand is when Muslims go to other countries, those countries must pander to their customs. If it is met with resistance, they all rally and spout hate and give death threats to journalists.
People make fun of Christians all the time. You can bet there will be no rally by Christians or threats of a Crusade. I'm tired of these Jihadic fools.

There was a recent survey among Muslims in America and about a third of them sympathized with the suicide bombers in Isreal and 9/11. Whoever said radical Muslims account for only .0000001% is living in a fantasy world.

Thats not true at all, us muslims just expect to be treated fairly and given equal opportunites like everyone else, we're not demanding for anything special, It is other people that wont leave us alone and they do these things to get a reaction from us, the drawings of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) were done to cause controversy, you want women to stop wearing the veil, why just leave them alone, you go and put up posters of half naked women right next to mosques, why? to cause controversy and then after all that when we get fed up and react, you say, look these muslims there at it again...

Could we have some proof of this survey, a link maybe!!!!

you say people make fun of christians, who do? and what fun?

and these people you claim that make fun of christians are they meant to be muslims or just general people, please clarify?

What I can't stand is when Muslims go to other countries, those countries must pander to their customs. If it is met with resistance, they all rally and spout hate and give death threats to journalists.

People make fun of Christians all the time. You can bet there will be no rally by Christians or threats of a Crusade. I'm tired of these Jihadic fools.

There was a recent survey among Muslims in America and about a third of them sympathized with the suicide bombers in Isreal and 9/11. Whoever said radical Muslims account for only .0000001% is living in a fantasy world.

well just because we are in the spotlight and some people act revenging way that doesnt not mean all.

and yes there are some hardcore radical christians in many parts of the worls like the KKK and the white supermist ( weird people because christianity started in the middle east with beni Israel)

Snoopy you are not look at Islam but you are looks at its people now. There are good muslim but you choose to tak the bad ones in your head and another thing is if you every seen the history this stuff is more political the relgious thing is is mixed with relgion but ever since the 1967 where Britian and US supported Israel to take over th the arabs land they are still senetive about it.

Snoopy I assume you are a Protestant

Actually I change my mind about things every single day of my life. 'Nuff said.

if you change you mind on the important things in life then you are and many times then you probably dont know what you want to be.

Thats not true at all, us muslims just expect to be treated fairly and given equal opportunites like everyone else, we're not demanding for anything special, It is other people that wont leave us alone and they do these things to get a reaction from us, the drawings of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) were done to cause controversy, you want women to stop wearing the veil, why just leave them alone, you go and put up posters of half naked women right next to mosques, why? to cause controversy and then after all that when we get fed up and react, you say, look these muslims there at it again...

Could we have some proof of this survey, a link maybe!!!!

you say people make fun of christians, who do? and what fun?

and these people you claim that make fun of christians are they meant to be muslims or just general people, please clarify?


Oh please, why should non-Muslims have to ALWAYS pander to YOUR feelings? Go back home if you don't like it here. It's a secular nation. If we want to post billboards of bikinis....you think covering them up is going to make a sales pitch? Get a clue.

The survey was announced on the radio. But if you recall the amount of people threatening Salman Rushdie (spelling?) just in England alone, that should clue you in on how many radicals are living among us.

Just admit that Christians are far more peaceful and tolerant than Muslims. Maybe you should switch. It would be a better upgrade.

Oh please, why should non-Muslims have to ALWAYS pander to YOUR feelings? Go back home if you don't like it here. It's a secular nation. If we want to post billboards of bikinis....you think covering them up is going to make a sales pitch? Get a clue.

The survey was announced on the radio. But if you recall the amount of people threatening Salman Rushdie (spelling?) just in England alone, that should clue you in on how many radicals are living among us.

Just admit that Christians are far more peaceful and tolerant than Muslims. Maybe you should switch. It would be a better upgrade.

there are many like the hooligans but they are not in the spotlight only after they take there **** one other countries.

I think they should ban british people from traveling to other countries espiecally when there is a british team there.

and that guy didnnt not only insult islam as i recalled he insulted every human being. so you okay for him to describe a white blonde british women as a hoe?

Salman insulted every human being? Did the Christians demand his head? No.

You keep mentioning British people. This is about religion, not race and football.

Every little decision you make moulds who you are, not some grand ideology you cling to like a safety blanket.

People are what they do, not what they believe.

Salman insulted every human being? Did the Christians demand his head? No.

You keep mentioning British people. This is about religion, not race and football.

but you keep on putting sterotyping muslims that is why i putting the football hooligans sitatuion. not every football fan is a football hooligans and not every muslim is a radical

you are critising the people from experience but you didnt even look at the Quran to judge Islam

here is a British Catholic Priest Converted To ISLAM:
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jUDxaVXwHbU"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jUDxaVXwHbU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDxaVXwHbU


you should do the same thing :D

sometimes there is a different between critizing something and sterotyping another thing or group of people. I would call all white british hooligans and they should be baned going overseas incase there is a football match could I, it would be unfair for the real club fans who are not causing trouble to have the live staduim experience.

another thing help comes in many forms a book is just on of them. which thing would you probably remeber more a thing that you wrote 20 years ago or something that you spoke of few days ago? The Quran is just to guide people and give th people a clue there is many evidence of something that is quit new that many are just discovered in the 20th centurey and that is mentioned in the Quran like the development of embroy and the finger print.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1fqFDqoU6g



it something the people believe in and another thing is the lifestyle it goes both ways on this one. If i preach about you about Islam you wont be conviencted becase you have to change your lifestlye and culture and people cant change that thing all at once.

so what i do I just give you some information and fact and if you are interested in this thing you will search more and you could choose the right path or at least know it and that is another discision you should make.



Does the Koran contradict itself?

Oh please, why should non-Muslims have to ALWAYS pander to YOUR feelings? Go back home if you don't like it here. It's a secular nation. If we want to post billboards of bikinis....you think covering them up is going to make a sales pitch? Get a clue.

The survey was announced on the radio. But if you recall the amount of people threatening Salman Rushdie (spelling?) just in England alone, that should clue you in on how many radicals are living among us.

Just admit that Christians are far more peaceful and tolerant than Muslims. Maybe you should switch. It would be a better upgrade.


Actually i was born in this country, and i am british, and i will be back home after my exams, thank you for asking!!!

LMAO!!!!!! Your hilarious, funny geeza!!!!


Whats happenin with KKK, are they provoked or do they hate everyone whose not white, and kill many many many people for no reason; we all know whats going on but the media chooses not to show it...

Salman rushdie was threatened for his views and what he said clearly showing how much stronger our belief is, we stand up for our belief and dont simply allow it, if all christians had a strong faith or beliefs then you'd do anything to stand up for it and against those who criticise it wrongfully....

I'm not saying my belief is superior because i will not come down to your level, im simply implying what i think....

Actually i was born in this country, and i am british, and i will be back home after my exams, thank you for asking!!!

LMAO!!!!!! Your hilarious, funny geeza!!!!


Whats happenin with KKK, are they provoked or do they hate everyone whose not white, and kill many many many people for no reason; we all know whats going on but the media chooses not to show it...

Salman rushdie was threatened for his views and what he said clearly showing how much stronger our belief is, we stand up for our belief and dont simply allow it, if all christians had a strong faith or beliefs then you'd do anything to stand up for it and against those who criticise it wrongfully....

I'm not saying my belief is superior because i will not come down to your level, im simply implying what i think....

So Al Qaeda were standing up for their beliefs then?

Does the Koran contradict itself?

explain more.

sometimes some of each sitaution and circumstance is different thing to do.

for example it is harm to eat pork but in some sitaution if you didnt have no food only pork in that place and it is the only thing for you to survive then you could eat in propotion ot make you alive

So Al Qaeda were standing up for their beliefs then?

ofcourse it same as the solider going to war or it would worth dieing for is it?

explain more.

sometimes some of each sitaution and circumstance is different thing to do.

for example it is harm to eat pork but in some sitaution if you didnt have no food only pork in that place and it is the only thing for you to survive then you could eat in propotion ot make you alive

"Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued". S. 9:29

and


"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians, - any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, - on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." S. 5:69


Do they not stand in contradiction?

ofcourse it same as the solider going to war or it would worth dieing for is it?

Soldiers don't deliberately target civilians. Al Qaeda do.

Al Qaeda are evil, soldiers are just doing their jobs.

Soldiers don't deliberately target civilians. Al Qaeda do.

Al Qaeda are evil, soldiers are just doing their jobs.

yes the just torture them and humilate them only.

if you think that british and US soliders are not targeting civilians that I think it okay to say that the Iraqi people are not angry to fight back. I think you should look closer

i dont agree with al-Qaeda but i am answering you question some thing are worth dying for and if some of these young people wanted to become soliders from both sides.

and to say that people coming form thousand miles to kill the people living there are just doing there job is okay. ofcouse some of them are evil or we would have Abu Grade and other scandal and hell other things

So Al Qaeda were standing up for their beliefs then?

dnt know ask them!!!

like i said dont associate al qaeda with the rest of the islam, its like associating KKK with Christianity and then saying all christians hate non-whites....

yes the just torture them and humilate them only.

if you think that british and US soliders are not targeting civilians that I think it okay to say that the Iraqi people are not angry to fight back. I think you should look closer

i dont agree with al-Qaeda but i am answering you question some thing are worth dying for and if some of these young people wanted to become soliders from both sides.

and to say that people coming form thousand miles to kill the people living there are just doing there job is okay. ofcouse some of them are evil or we would have Abu Grade and other scandal and hell other things



Al Qaeda aren't soldiers, they're murderers.

"Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued". S. 9:29

and


"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians, - any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, - on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." S. 5:69


Do they not stand in contradiction?


how does that contradict!!!! :confused:

Your Talking about contradcitions in the holy Qu'ran, well i can show you contradictions and mistakes in the bible then you can go and check up on it yourself and see the amount of errors!!!!

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/contradictions.html

Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda... blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....

Tired of hearing them over and over again...

Is that the best you all can come up with to prove your point!!!

here is a British Catholic Priest Converted To ISLAM:
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jUDxaVXwHbU"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jUDxaVXwHbU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDxaVXwHbU


you should do the same thing :D

Oh please. He wasn't even a priest when he converted! Yet when a Muslim tries to switch to Christianity, it's typically a death warrant for him. You need to get out of the dark ages.

Salman rushdie was threatened for his views and what he said clearly showing how much stronger our belief is, we stand up for our belief and dont simply allow it, if all christians had a strong faith or beliefs then you'd do anything to stand up for it and against those who criticise it wrongfully....

I'm not saying my belief is superior because i will not come down to your level, im simply implying what i think....

^ People...this is what I mean about intolerance. fasman has no tolerance for those who criticise Islam. You're a proven example of my point. Thank you. Please don't destroy a bus.

how does that contradict!!!! :confused:

Your Talking about contradcitions in the holy Qu'ran, well i can show you contradictions and mistakes in the bible then you can go and check up on it yourself and see the amount of errors!!!!

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/contradictions.html



The contradiction is pretty obvious.



Why would I give a flying **** about the Bible?

All religion is complete nonesense.
Anyone who actually believes in it is intelectually challenged.

Fasman can **** off for all I care. I have NO time for his views if they condone a death warrant on someone who criticises Islam. People with that view should be locked up for inciting hatred, then the BNP wouldn't get as much support.

Oh please. He wasn't even a priest when he converted! Yet when a Muslim tries to switch to Christianity, it's typically a death warrant for him. You need to get out of the dark ages.

what about Yusuf Estat, Cat Stevens and the growinng numbers of muslim converts around the world. If something that is ins the dark ages it wierd that Islam is the mos growing relgion in the world about 2,000 covnert in US per year. I dont know more about britian


usually before the person becomes a muslim he knows what is the consequence if he left.

If you are a christian hear Yosef Estat story e wasnt only a christian but he was a powerful rich preacher

"Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued". S. 9:29

and


"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians, - any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, - on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." S. 5:69


Do they not stand in contradiction?

I in not postition to comment on this one I going to see my friend who has more knowledg than me.

I rarely read the Quran and I not that good muslim but trying to be a good muslim


so I will put that on hault intell I could give you a reasonable answer because the sitaution on that times could be different and need to go to more than one book to understand it greater depth so I could answer you in a better way

All religion is complete nonesense.
Anyone who actually believes in it is intelectually challenged.

well it okay the first part but the last part of your sentence is just an insult and has no meaning into it even though the whole thing has not meaning

I in not postition to comment on this one I going to see my friend who has more knowledg than me.

I rarely read the Quran and I not that good muslim but trying to be a good muslim


so I will put that on hault intell I could give you a reasonable answer because the sitaution on that times could be different and need to go to more than one book to understand it greater depth so I could answer you in a better way


It the transulation of the words sometimes the meaning is different in someway. here is the transulation of the versus itself.

1: http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=9&Ayah=29&Language=2&TranslationBook=4

2 : http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=5&Ayah=69&Language=2&TranslationBook=4

Now, your talking TOTAL nonsense, im starting to think your a 12 yr old pathetic child whose looking for a reaction by acting stupid....


What you think is of little importance to me, you have already shown yourself to be incapable of arguing even the most basic of points. You also have confused racism and antitheism on several occasions.


You claim you refuse to believe in Islam, well thats up2u no-ones forcing you, but the thing is that your earlier remarks were just pure racism and hatred and were uncalled for..


Again you lack the intelligence to see the difference between racism and antitheism. An example of hatred would be burning an effergy of someone in the street, or kidnapping and murdering someone because of their religious belieifs. Yes, Islam is a good example of how hateful groups of people can be.


I did not say anything about other religions because i respect other religions, you clearly on the other hand keep avoiding my argument and keep cleverely trying to delfect to other subject, first you slag off Islam for no reason and when i confront and ask for your reasons why!! You give an unethical response.....


I have given you reasons why I do not believe in Islam. It is nonsense and irrational; it is also completely foundationless and has no evidence at all supporting any of its 'teachings'.


how does it make me weak if i believe in Islam and am a muslim, explain HOW???


Because you have a need to believe that your life is in the hands of someone else. You must believe in a divine entity because you lack belief in yourself.


So what your saying is every believer of any religon is weak because they cannot exist in this world on their own and they need some guidance....


Yes


So all believers except atheists and non-believers are weak, no matter, if their muslims, hindus, jews, christians, buddhists!!!


yes, you've got it.


Well your argument once again is flawed and i wouldnt even say its an argument its more of 'i'm getting bored, lets try to stir **** up'


It is an argument. One which you cannot win, because your viewpoint has no basis other than your own unstoppable idiocy.


Are yeah, we pray 5 times a day not 6..:banana:


okay.


do some research you Stupid Pathetic child!!!!

I have.

It the transulation of the words sometimes the meaning is different in someway. here is the transulation of the versus itself.

1: http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=9&Ayah=29&Language=2&TranslationBook=4

2 : http://www.altafsir.com/ViewTranslations.asp?Display=yes&SoraNo=5&Ayah=69&Language=2&TranslationBook=4

Why would a God dictate a book in one language knowing that translation would distort it? Didn't your God think that far ahead?

Why would a God create a book that could so easily be interpreted in many different ways?

The contradiction is pretty obvious.



Why would I give a flying **** about the Bible?

O.K, the only reason i posted those links were to show you, that Bible also has contradicitons, you were going on like some badman, by giving a few lines of which you claimed were contradictions in the Qu'ran, i gave you whole pages and pages of contradictions in the bible.....

^ People...this is what I mean about intolerance. fasman has no tolerance for those who criticise Islam. You're a proven example of my point. Thank you. Please don't destroy a bus.

ermmmmm. No!!!

Of course i have tolerance, im not the one thats being racist and blatantly taking the piss out of someones religion.

Once again with your stupid racist remark, i will say that i can assure you i will not blow up a bus, i promise man!! serious, believe me i wont!!! LMAO!!!!

Fasman can **** off for all I care. I have NO time for his views if they condone a death warrant on someone who criticises Islam. People with that view should be locked up for inciting hatred, then the BNP wouldn't get as much support.

Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh Dear.. Look what we have over here!!!!!

OptimusWolf you can **** off too!!!! yeah!!!

I did not mean that if anyone who criticises Islam should be condoned because its their ****ing Opinion and freedom of speech, i couldnt give a **** if they were condoned or not, but simply you have to look at the whole picture you ***!!!

There are many racist bastards like SnoopySmurf, Beowulf and few others who not only critise Islam but are taking the piss with some of their comments, i did not come down to their level but tried arguing my case!!

Not have i once insulted another religion, faith or belief!!!

But you son of a ***** go on like your a ****ing politician!!!

I've had enough, i say something and everyone gets a hard-on, if you open your eyes and look at others comments then you will see the ****ing hatred,etc!!!

What you think is of little importance to me, you have already shown yourself to be incapable of arguing even the most basic of points. You also have confused racism and antitheism on several occasions.

Explain to me how, give me one example where i have failed to argue my case, i havent confused racism and antitheism, i do know what they are!!

Again you lack the intelligence to see the difference between racism and antitheism. An example of hatred would be burning an effergy of someone in the street, or kidnapping and murdering someone because of their religious belieifs. Yes, Islam is a good example of how hateful groups of people can be.

It's that going to be your whole argument to justify your claims, that you aint got nothing better to say than 'i have confused racism and antiheism'!!!


I have given you reasons why I do not believe in Islam. It is nonsense and irrational; it is also completely foundationless and has no evidence at all supporting any of its 'teachings'.

If you dont believe in Islam, then its up2u again, like i said before 'i dont care', dont keep saying, 'i dont believe in Islam because its irrational and has no tolerance, blah blah, whatever' I DONT CARE!!! Good for you!!

Because you have a need to believe that your life is in the hands of someone else. You must believe in a divine entity because you lack belief in yourself.


Okay you Non-Believer, now your criticising not Islam but every other religion too and anyone who believes in a religion or faith!!! Okay up2u!!!

It is an argument. One which you cannot win, because your viewpoint has no basis other than your own unstoppable idiocy.

I wouldnt say that i couldnt win, because the fact is i already am!!!

You keep on saying that your winning enough times and you may actually believe it!!!

You have no foundation to which you can lay the basis of argument, i'll sum up your argument in a few lines!!!

' I dont believe in any religion or faith, im a non-believer, because they all follow something or someone they need guidance and are weak, however because i dont have a strong enough argument, i'll chat **** until everyone gets bored of my crap'

Why would a God dictate a book in one language knowing that translation would distort it? Didn't your God think that far ahead?

Why would a God create a book that could so easily be interpreted in many different ways?

The book was not meant to be dictated in other languages it was meant to be in the language it is which is arabic and muslims who are born and are not arabic, therefore arabic not being there mother tongue are taught how to read arabic are taught how to read from an early age, so they can read the Qu'ran..

The fact is that many millions and millions and millions of people have converted to Islam and scholars and people who study Islam are the ones who need this translated, but there are some words in certain languages that cannot be translated.... This goes for every language not just arabic!!!

goodbye!!!:buttkick:

Explain to me how, give me one example where i have failed to argue my case, i havent confused racism and antitheism, i do know what they are!!


You said to me that I am racist for criticising Islam. Muslims are not a race of people. Antitheism is, in essence, the belief that religion is destructive and that it should be bannished. If I am criticising Islam, it is because I am antitheist, not racist.


It's that going to be your whole argument to justify your claims, that you aint got nothing better to say than 'i have confused racism and antiheism'!!!


It is a simple equation. If you believe in something, surely you should have some kind of proof to support your belief. This is my problem with religion and Islam. There is no proof. You have obviously been brainwashed from an early age by family members and teachers to believe this tripe.


If you dont believe in Islam, then its up2u again, like i said before 'i dont care', dont keep saying, 'i dont believe in Islam because its irrational and has no tolerance, blah blah, whatever' I DONT CARE!!! Good for you!!


Then don't accuse me of being racist because I criticise Islam. This sums up what you people are like. If anyone says anything against your pathetic little religion, you start going crazy.



Okay you Non-Believer, now your criticising not Islam but every other religion too and anyone who believes in a religion or faith!!! Okay up2u!!!


Yes, all religions are equally full of ****. Except i've never seen a Buddhist monk blow himself up in a bus full of people.


I wouldnt say that i couldnt win, because the fact is i already am!!!


You clearly are dillusional so it does not surprise me that you think you have won this argument.


You keep on saying that your winning enough times and you may actually believe it!!!


You can't argue with facts. You have none.


You have no foundation to which you can lay the basis of argument, i'll sum up your argument in a few lines!!!


I do. My argument is based on fact, evidence, truth and the history and suffering caused by your religion to people on a daily basis.


i'll chat **** until everyone gets bored of my crap'


i`m already bored of your crap

You said to me that I am racist for criticising Islam. Muslims are not a race of people. Antitheism is, in essence, the belief that religion is destructive and that it should be bannished. If I am criticising Islam, it is because I am antitheist, not racist

Okay!!! antiheism is all bollocks!!! Could you not keep your views to yourself, even if you are some antiheist, i couldnt careless, did i come out and chat **** about antiheism until NOW!!! and even when i did it was a backlash from your comments!!! Anyway antiheists can also be racist it dont mean your antiheist you cant be racist, antiheist is the belief that there is no god or gods, so you oppose god, there is no need to say what you did say!!!

It is a simple equation. If you believe in something, surely you should have some kind of proof to support your belief. This is my problem with religion and Islam. There is no proof. You have obviously been brainwashed from an early age by family members and teachers to believe this tripe.

What do you mean no proof, or no proof to support our belief!!! Clarify??


Then don't accuse me of being racist because I criticise Islam. This sums up what you people are like. If anyone says anything against your pathetic little religion, you start going crazy.


Firstly, its not pathetic and trust me it aint little, its the fastest growing religion in the world, how many antiheists do actually exist in comparison to muslims, next to none!!! So antiheism is pathetic and little!!!! What do you antiheists actually believe, except that "One opposed to belief in the existence of a God." 21st century type hippies!!!


Yes, all religions are equally full of ****. Except i've never seen a Buddhist monk blow himself up in a bus full of people.

RACIST!!!!


You clearly are dillusional so it does not surprise me that you think you have won this argument.

Your dillusional blud!!! your an antiheist so you must be!!!!

You can't argue with facts. You have none.

I have many many facts, you have none, your whole beliefs a joke and so are you!!!



I do. My argument is based on fact, evidence, truth and the history and suffering caused by your religion to people on a daily basis.

What facts do you have, your an isolated loner, who needs to be locked away and left to die!!!


i`m already bored of your crap.


I was bored of your crap as soon as your first comment, as soon as you wrote that first comment, i was like oh dear, we have ourselves a pathetic racist child!!!!

Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh Dear.. Look what we have over here!!!!!

OptimusWolf you can **** off too!!!! yeah!!!

I did not mean that if anyone who criticises Islam should be condoned because its their ****ing Opinion and freedom of speech, i couldnt give a **** if they were condoned or not, but simply you have to look at the whole picture you ***!!!

There are many racist bastards like SnoopySmurf, Beowulf and few others who not only critise Islam but are taking the piss with some of their comments, i did not come down to their level but tried arguing my case!!

Not have i once insulted another religion, faith or belief!!!

But you son of a ***** go on like your a ****ing politician!!!

I've had enough, i say something and everyone gets a hard-on, if you open your eyes and look at others comments then you will see the ****ing hatred,etc!!!


Don't ever call me a racist bastard. Tell me where I've been racist will you? Or else **** off.

The book was not meant to be dictated in other languages it was meant to be in the language it is which is arabic and muslims who are born and are not arabic, therefore arabic not being there mother tongue are taught how to read arabic are taught how to read from an early age, so they can read the Qu'ran..

The fact is that many millions and millions and millions of people have converted to Islam and scholars and people who study Islam are the ones who need this translated, but there are some words in certain languages that cannot be translated.... This goes for every language not just arabic!!!

goodbye!!!:buttkick:



It just doesn't make sense that a God would create a book that could only be properly read in one language, dictated to one man. It just isn't a good way to transmit information.


If a God realy wanted to be worshipped then why doesn't he just make his presence known directly rather than resorting to some rambling, incoherent book? If this Allah was all knowing, then surely he'd have realised that dictating a book to a bloke like Mohammad wouldn't have been the most reliable method of transmission?

O.K, the only reason i posted those links were to show you, that Bible also has contradicitons, you were going on like some badman, by giving a few lines of which you claimed were contradictions in the Qu'ran, i gave you whole pages and pages of contradictions in the bible.....

I'm not a Christian.


Why would exposing contradictions in the Bible counter my accusations of the presence of contradictions in the Koran? As far as i'm concerned they're both books written solely by men, with no divine influence.

Fasman, you have no idea, but I will make one more comment before I leave this thread.

The right to criticise and make fun of ideas and ideology is a crucial aspect of western society. It will not and cannot change. if someone takes the piss out of you for being a muslim that is completely different to someone making fun of Islam. If you don't like this then the western world isn't for you.

I have criticised all racism on these boards since I first joined, and will never stand by while someone is being racially abusive. You however are an offensive young guy who should consider leaving the boards, seriously.

Fasman, you have no idea, but I will make one more comment before I leave this thread.

The right to criticise and make fun of ideas and ideology is a crucial aspect of western society. It will not and cannot change. if someone takes the piss out of you for being a muslim that is completely different to someone making fun of Islam. If you don't like this then the western world isn't for you.

I have criticised all racism on these boards since I first joined, and will never stand by while someone is being racially abusive. You however are an offensive young guy who should consider leaving the boards, seriously.

Why should you make fun of Islam for no reason at all though, were any of you guys challenged no, was i racist no, i have tried to behaved in respectful manner by not being racist, others have been racist yet no-one bothers saying anything, i dont care if you all are critical becuase it is your views and opinions... I am fully aware we are in a western soceity and i respect that, i and anyone i know dont go on marches, burn ethergies (sp?), blow up buses, yet all of this is continually mentioned, im sick and tired of it...

I aint going anywhere and why should i, what have i done, if you dont like it, then seriously leave this board yourself man!!!

I aint offensive, i just stand up for my beliefs no matter what, even if that means death, then i shall die defending it, theres no point because i can and will spend as long as it takes, for people to stop being racist to me and my beliefs....

criticism i can take, your opinions and views i can take, i respect all religions and faiths, i aint a racist but i will not take everyone being racist or insulting my faith, all of that was uncalled for, some guys just do it for no apparent reason and just like to cause controversy without having the knowledge to prove their point or give facts....

phewww.. now im going to go and get some work done!!!!

Taking the piss out of Islam does not equal racism
Criticising Islam does not equal racism

Holding prejudice against you for being Islamic is racism
Being directly cruel to you via your Islamic background is racism.

this is not only my opinion, but the law of limeyland.

I took a quick glance at your previous posts, and you're not a deliberately offensive poster. However, by brandishing certain people racist in this thread you have overstepped a line. I hope you don't do it again.

Laters, I'm off to play cricket.

Why would a God dictate a book in one language knowing that translation would distort it? Didn't your God think that far ahead?

Why would a God create a book that could so easily be interpreted in many different ways?

that is the beuty of the arabic languge.

Arabic languge is more complex than english by far could be one of the hardest languge to master ( i dont mean like learn)

sometimes a single pronounaction could change the whole meaning of the sentence.

Why the Quran came down in Arabic?
Well Arab where alway showing love in of there languge and also they are many times the fought each other with poetr. the sentence could have a more powerful meaning. So the Quran cam down to challenge these people of with there own languge.

are you familiar in with english liet. about irony and other thing that is used in a similar way in the arabic languge.

that is why the to know the Quran very well you have to master the arabic languge that even arabs these day cant do it.

about interpeting things in many way you have too look into different view. it a democratic way in interpting the Quran :D and it is to test the people.

God in this life is testing us like If employer want to emoplyee someone hetest him and this is a type to test people on how there difference and how would the react.

But usually go to the scholars in this sitaution and not only one scholar it is alway better to have many views on somethings is it that democratic

Why would a God dictate a book in one language knowing that translation would distort it? Didn't your God think that far ahead?

Why would a God create a book that could so easily be interpreted in many different ways?

Taking the piss out of Islam does not equal racism
Criticising Islam does not equal racism

Holding prejudice against you for being Islamic is racism
Being directly cruel to you via your Islamic background is racism.

this is not only my opinion, but the law of limeyland.

I took a quick glance at your previous posts, and you're not a deliberately offensive poster. However, by brandishing certain people racist in this thread you have overstepped a line. I hope you don't do it again.

Laters, I'm off to play cricket.

you okay but some people in this debate are sterotyping the whole muslims being part or supporting Bin Laden and stuff like that with shooting acusation

that is the beuty of the arabic languge.

Arabic languge is more complex than english by far could be one of the hardest languge to master ( i dont mean like learn)

sometimes a single pronounaction could change the whole meaning of the sentence.

Why the Quran came down in Arabic?
Well Arab where alway showing love in of there languge and also they are many times the fought each other with poetr. the sentence could have a more powerful meaning. So the Quran cam down to challenge these people of with there own languge.

are you familiar in with english liet. about irony and other thing that is used in a similar way in the arabic languge.

that is why the to know the Quran very well you have to master the arabic languge that even arabs these day cant do it.

about interpeting things in many way you have too look into different view. it a democratic way in interpting the Quran :D and it is to test the people.

God in this life is testing us like If employer want to emoplyee someone hetest him and this is a type to test people on how there difference and how would the react.

But usually go to the scholars in this sitaution and not only one scholar it is alway better to have many views on somethings is it that democratic


How do you know that 'Allah' gave the message of the Koran to Mohammad? Could it be that Mohammad created the whole thing as a way of uniting the Arab peoples and in order to gain power?


Why would 'Allah' create the Koran in just the Arabic language though ("as a test" just isn't a satisfactory answer to me: If you're a higher being then you'd surely be above making people jump through hoops in order to get to your message)?

Why didn't your god give everyone on every continent the same simple message in their own languages, instead of just giving its message to a bloke named Mohammad?

How do you know that 'Allah' gave the message of the Koran to Mohammad? Could it be that Mohammad created the whole thing as a way of uniting the Arab peoples and in order to gain power?


Why would 'Allah' create the Koran in just the Arabic language though ("as a test" just isn't a satisfactory answer to me: If you're a higher being then you'd surely be above making people jump through hoops in order to get to your message)?

Why didn't your god give everyone on every continent the same simple message in their own languages, instead of just giving its message to a bloke named Mohammad?

well he brought down the Angel and Torah before it with the same message but they have been changed by people.

and the prophet Mohammed is just a prophet and human he is not higher or lower and he is not son of God or divined. He is sent to send a message to the people and all the books of God and prophets that where send where it is Moses or Jesus ...etc they are sending the message of God.

The Quran is giving clues on how to go to heaven and not go to hell.

and about the prophet Mohammed was one of the factors on doing that and it was not all arab who are muslim if you are well aware of and visa versa. It ws God's will because nobody could force you to do something or be friends with someone only if you really wanted to and that will is from God.

well he brought down the Angel and Torah before it with the same message but they have been changed by people.

and the prophet Mohammed is just a prophet and human he is not higher or lower and he is not son of God or divined. He is sent to send a message to the people and all the books of God and prophets that where send where it is Moses or Jesus ...etc they are sending the message of God.

The Quran is giving clues on how to go to heaven and not go to hell.

and about the prophet Mohammed was one of the factors on doing that and it was not all arab who are muslim if you are well aware of and visa versa. It ws God's will because nobody could force you to do something or be friends with someone only if you really wanted to and that will is from God.



So why did the Koran incite believers to slay non-believers and convert by force?

Why wouldn't 'God' automatically give evryone equal access to his orders, setting them out logically and concisely. The Koran is the opposite of that, a long and obtuse document the authenticity of which will always be in doubt?


Why, after giving us this ability to reason and our faculty for logic would a god want us to believe in something out of blind faith? Would not the god appeal to us on a more intellectual level?


Can you honestly show me that the Koran wasn't created by, or dictated by Mohammad? Mohammad, instead being a genius who saw the potential for Arab unification and societal control afforded by being a religious leader and a political leader.

Okay!!! antiheism is all bollocks!!! Could you not keep your views to yourself, even if you are some antiheist, i couldnt careless, did i come out and chat **** about antiheism until NOW!!! and even when i did it was a backlash from your comments!!! Anyway antiheists can also be racist it dont mean your antiheist you cant be racist, antiheist is the belief that there is no god or gods, so you oppose god, there is no need to say what you did say!!!


Muslims do not keep their views to themselves, why should I? Thats right, you live in the UK, where we are supposed to be allowed to say what we want. Welcome to the west.


What do you mean no proof, or no proof to support our belief!!! Clarify??


The world was made in 5 days by a sponge cake. Prove me wrong. That carries the same amount of weight in terms of evidence as your religion.


Firstly, its not pathetic and trust me it aint little, its the fastest growing religion in the world, how many antiheists do actually exist in comparison to muslims, next to none!!! So antiheism is pathetic and little!!!! What do you antiheists actually believe, except that "One opposed to belief in the existence of a God." 21st century type hippies!!!


You people are so quick to point the finger. Islam is a cancer.


RACIST!!!!


You still don't understand that Islam is not a race do you? This is why you people are so ignorant. You can't accept facts.


Your dillusional blud!!! your an antiheist so you must be!!!!


okay Dizzy, i`m the one who is dillusional.


I have many many facts, you have none, your whole beliefs a joke and so are you!!!


You have no facts. Your religion is based on fantasy.


What facts do you have, your an isolated loner, who needs to be locked away and left to die!!!


Fact 1: You have no facts



I was bored of your crap as soon as your first comment, as soon as you wrote that first comment, i was like oh dear, we have ourselves a pathetic racist child!!!!

For the 100th time you have confused Racism and Antitheism.

This makes you the perfect Muslim. The inability to see the truth.

fasman will likely join an extremist group. I'd keep an eye on him and his family, people. Intolerant Muslims like him is dangerous to unarmed civilians.

fasman will likely join an extremist group. I'd keep an eye on him and his family, people. Intolerant Muslims like him is dangerous to unarmed civilians.

LMAO!!!!!:banana:

yea thats right, i try to stand up for my belief and now im a terrorist!!!

pure ignorance!!!!

point proven!! goodbye!!!

these people are so aggressive, they will stop at nothing to try and convert people to their way of 'thinking'.

Going around murdering innocent people.

They should be kicked out of civilised society and go back to whatever cave they came from.

Muslims do not keep their views to themselves, why should I? Thats right, you live in the UK, where we are supposed to be allowed to say what we want. Welcome to the west.

ermmmm... dont mean you live in the west you should be allowed to say what want, a line has to be drawn somewhere, no matter who you are and where you come from!!!


The world was made in 5 days by a sponge cake. Prove me wrong. That carries the same amount of weight in terms of evidence as your religion.

You believe what you believe, couldnt care less!!!!


You people are so quick to point the finger. Islam is a cancer.

NO!!!! your the cancer and every ignorant person like you!!!!


You still don't understand that Islam is not a race do you? This is why you people are so ignorant. You can't accept facts.

What facts, you aint got any!!!


okay Dizzy, i`m the one who is dillusional.

ermmm YES!!!


You have no facts. Your religion is based on fantasy.

Thats rich coming from Mr I aint got no facts!!!

Your whole belief is a joke!!!!

these people are so aggressive, they will stop at nothing to try and convert people to their way of 'thinking'.

Going around murdering innocent people.

They should be kicked out of civilised society and go back to whatever cave they came from.

No-ones converting your thinking and no-ones trying to opress you!!

Just standing up for our beliefs!!!

You should be kicked out of all societies and go back to live in the forest!!!!

ermmmm... dont mean you live in the west you should be allowed to say what want, a line has to be drawn somewhere, no matter who you are and where you come from!!!


Yes, thats exactly what it means. Women can walk around in skimpy clothes in summer too, maybe down your street...


You believe what you believe, couldnt care less!!!!


Why do you keep replying if you don't care? Of course you care.


NO!!!! your the cancer and every ignorant person like you!!!!


What is more ignorant? Believing in some deity in the sky, listening to you as you whisper into your hands....or moi, someone who believes that is nonsense? I am reality. The cold light of day.



What facts, you aint got any!!!


You are the one who believes in something that is so ridiculous. You have to prove it, which you cannot.



Your whole belief is a joke!!!!


I believe that your belief is based on indocrination and fantasy. YOu have already proved to me that you cannot provide one shred of evidence to support your perverse view of the world.

No-ones converting your thinking and no-ones trying to opress you!!

Just standing up for our beliefs!!!

You should be kicked out of all societies and go back to live in the forest!!!!

Your people still live in caves...sitting round a bowl of rice with an AK47 strapped to their pajamas.

does anyone like Muslims ?

Your people still live in caves...sitting round a bowl of rice with an AK47 strapped to their pajamas.

LMAO!!!

pure ignorance yet again, you presume im a muslim that im from iraq or afghanistan!!!!

Mannn Bin Laden aint my cousin and neither was saddam hussein!!!

:owned:

does anyone like Muslims ?

YES ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO!!!

pure ignorance yet again, you presume im a muslim that im from iraq or afghanistan!!!!

Mannn Bin Laden aint my cousin and neither was saddam hussein!!!

:owned:

I know your command of the English language isn't great. But if you read it again, carefully, i said 'your people', not you.

:owned:

Yes, thats exactly what it means. Women can walk around in skimpy clothes in summer too, maybe down your street.

No, it dont dont mean your from the west you can be racist and say what you want, you go on the streets and shout the N word or p**i and you'll be arrested!!! Blud, my neighbours are both white familys and in the summer they wear skimpy clothes, bikins and ****, but we still talk to them, it dont affect us, because they're nice people, i aint bother what race or colour they are, unlike some people!!!!


Why do you keep replying if you don't care? Of course you care.

thats the whole point why im replyin, you keep comin out with stupid points tryin to prove me wrong or make me look bad!!! im just replyin to let you know that i aint going anywhere!!!


What is more ignorant? Believing in some deity in the sky, listening to you as you whisper into your hands....or moi, someone who believes that is nonsense? I am reality. The cold light of day.

What are your beliefs, that there is no god and we were all created from light or some bull**** like that!!!


You are the one who believes in something that is so ridiculous. You have to prove it, which you cannot.

O.K!!! Prove what, you'll find out when the day comes!!!! LMAO


I believe that your belief is based on indocrination and fantasy. YOu have already proved to me that you cannot provide one shred of evidence to support your perverse view of the world.

Prove what, you havent said!!!!

Your whole belief is a joke, you prove to me why you claim that your belief is "more stronger and believable"!!!

YES ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!it aint their race or their color that i hate.
its their bull**** religion.

now personally i hate christians, jews and hippies too.

I know your command of the English language isn't great. But if you read it again, carefully, i said 'your people', not you.

:owned:

Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear!!! LMAO

are you trying to be stupid or were you born with half a brain!!!

you were implicitly implying 'your people' towards me because you were having an argument with me, so by you saying your people it was intended towards me, who else was it directed at??? then that would mean that my people, i.e, not only my family but people of the same nationality or race as me!! i.e, muslims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goodbye!!!!

:owned:

it aint their race or their color that i hate.
its their bull**** religion.

now personally i hate christians, jews and hippies too.

good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!

:banana:

Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear!!! LMAO

are you trying to be stupid or were you born with half a brain!!!

you were implicitly implying 'your people' towards me because you were having an argument with me, so by you saying your people it was intended towards me, who else was it directed at??? then that would mean that my people, i.e, not only my family but people of the same nationality or race as me!! i.e, muslims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goodbye!!!!


I find it amazing that you still believe Muslims are a race.

I find it amazing that you still believe Muslims are a race.

muslims are adherents of Islam!!!!

:headbang:

muslims are adherents of Islam!!!!

:headbang:

Therefore, if someone speaks out against muslims or Islam. They cannot be labelled as racist then can they?

You have just said that muslims are not a race. Therefore, criticising Islam does not constitute racism.

muslims are adherents of Islam!!!!

:headbang:

Which is turning into an evil religion. Hope someone stuffs pork down your throat and shoots you dead. No more 40 virgins for you, Jaffar.

Therefore, if someone speaks out against muslims or Islam. They cannot be labelled as racist then can they?

You have just said that muslims are not a race. Therefore, criticising Islam does not constitute racism.

Do you know what racism is???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

it can also be classed as some levels of prejudice and discriminating!!!!

Which is turning into an evil religion. Hope someone stuffs pork down your throat and shoots you dead. No more 40 virgins for you, Jaffar.

oh hi, nice to see you too!!!:banana:

thank you for your nice comments...

do you always come up with stupid chilldish comments everytime you dont have nothing constructive to say!!!!

oh hi, nice to see you too!!!:banana:

thank you for your nice comments...

do you always come up with stupid chilldish comments everytime you dont have nothing constructive to say!!!!

Can you provide proof about the 40 virgins for martyrs? And why does your religion say things about 40 virgins?

Can you provide proof about the 40 virgins for martyrs? And why does your religion say things about 40 virgins?

Well, unless you want me to die a martyr, come back to earth, ring you up and let you know, i think its safe to say.. not quite yet!!!!!!

What is it to you what my religion says about 40 virgins, i couldnt care less, so why are you getting all hyped up for!!!!

Leave the 40 virgins alone!!!:lol1:

Actually its 72 virgins for martyrs!!!

but what difference does it make to you!!!!!!!!!

Well, unless you want me to die a martyr, come back to earth, ring you up and let you know, i think its safe to say.. not quite yet!!!!!!

What is it to you what my religion says about 40 virgins, i couldnt care less, so why are you getting all hyped up for!!!!

Leave the 40 virgins alone!!!:lol1:

Just as I thought. You actually believe in this bull****.

Just as I thought. You actually believe in this bull****.

Well 'YES',:banana: because its my religion and its what its says, and tells me to believe, if you dont like it then tough!!!!

Do you know what racism is???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

it can also be classed as some levels of prejudice and discriminating!!!!

yes, against a race

Well 'YES',:banana: because its my religion and its what its says, and tells me to believe, if you dont like it then tough!!!!


haha this sums you up. you believe what someone else tells you to believe. You do not have a mind of your own. You are weak.

haha this sums you up. you believe what someone else tells you to believe. You do not have a mind of your own. You are weak.

Hopefully, no one tells him to blow up a bus so he can cash in on the 40 virgins that don't exist. This is also insulting to women. Even in Islam's version of heaven, they are treated like sex slaves.

So why did the Koran incite believers to slay non-believers and convert by force?

Why wouldn't 'God' automatically give evryone equal access to his orders, setting them out logically and concisely. The Koran is the opposite of that, a long and obtuse document the authenticity of which will always be in doubt?


Why, after giving us this ability to reason and our faculty for logic would a god want us to believe in something out of blind faith? Would not the god appeal to us on a more intellectual level?


Can you honestly show me that the Koran wasn't created by, or dictated by Mohammad? Mohammad, instead being a genius who saw the potential for Arab unification and societal control afforded by being a religious leader and a political leader.

The Quran is not created but brought down. There have been a debate between muslims about this but i favouring the bought down thing.

2nd thing is about the prophet Mohammed uniting arabs if you know the history of Islam the prophet and the muslims didnt when they first started in Mecca didnt have a pleaseant experience espically after the prophet Uncle Abu Taleb died, who wasnt a muslim but was strongly protecting the prophet. The people of Mecca in pre-Islamic time where toturing the muslims and there was hight proption of them who are not arab to start with but slaves. So some muslims went to Euthiopea where the prophet said there will be a great King there who is justiced and good and will accept them and after awhile some left for Medina. So it is a complex pathway

BeWolf you are a man of science are you? If so the prophet was illetrate and the science in the Quran is so advance that some are just discovered in the 20th centurey. How could a person who is illetrate know these thing and its not only one thing but many scietific evidence on it.

haha this sums you up. you believe what someone else tells you to believe. You do not have a mind of your own. You are weak.

:banana:

no, what u on bout blud.... snoopysmurf asked me a question and i just answered it, then i said that i do believe because its my religion and my faith and i know its true but the things is, what i meant was that i dont know if i'll die a martyr!!! so that for me is out of the equation, i might never get 72 virgins in heaven because i might not die a martyr.... So i cannot answer his question, i just have to keep faith in my religion and my belief, i am not weak and neither is my religion, you are weak!!!

:wave:

Hopefully, no one tells him to blow up a bus so he can cash in on the 40 virgins that don't exist. This is also insulting to women. Even in Islam's version of heaven, they are treated like sex slaves.

It's 72 virgins.. do some research kid!!!!:lol1:

and even if i was told to blow up a bus, i wouldnt cos dats just wrong and those people are not martyrs they are cowards and that is forbidden in Islam!!!!!!

Your taking the piss out of all the people that have been killed by a bus being blown up... shame on you!!!!:wave:

Wouldnt it be funny if it was 72 homosexual virgins lol

I going to check if this 72 virgins is true or not But long time ago arab used to represent a 70s number being a larg number which could be 1,000 or something but usually represeant a big number of something.

another thing in Heaven you could get anything what you want. So it common sense that you could get the number of women you want there but if you have a wife and she doesnt want that she would be more appear to be more attractive to you. and the numbers of women depends on the if you wife have accepted you to marry more during lifetime.


Snoopy, me007, OptimWolf and me007 what are your views and relgion? christian conervative or athiest liberal ...etc


because all i do it coutering the thing that you throw around and why are you views like that about islam? I think it is mostly the media which plays a role because Western countries and even in Arab countries the media play a big role in public opions and the proof is that there is more coverage about Britiny Spears and Paris Hilton than the whole Africa ting and celebritiy are powerful and could be more powerful than politicians :D

I am an agnostic, not that it is relevant to the thread in the slightest. I don't have religious beliefs, but neither do I think that those who do have religious views are incorrect.

call it sitting on the fence, but I'd rather think I don't have delusions of the grandeur needed to know everything. I prefer a more organic way of living my life, developing it through consideration of each issue as it arises, rather than trying to fit into a template (not meant to sound like that is a bad thing).

There are many things that are less than what I would desire in this world, and everyday (except this past year) I've gone to work with the aim of changing things through liberal democracy. So I suppose I do believe in that, loosely...

PS I don't see the direct relevance to this topic.

I don't have strong views about Islam, or Christians, or Black people, or Jehova's witnesses, or scientologists.......

I am an agnostic, not that it is relevant to the thread in the slightest. I don't have religious beliefs, but neither do I think that those who do have religious views are incorrect.

call it sitting on the fence, but I'd rather think I don't have delusions of the grandeur needed to know everything. I prefer a more organic way of living my life, developing it through consideration of each issue as it arises, rather than trying to fit into a template (not meant to sound like that is a bad thing).

There are many things that are less than what I would desire in this world, and everyday (except this past year) I've gone to work with the aim of changing things through liberal democracy. So I suppose I do believe in that, loosely...

PS I don't see the direct relevance to this topic.

I don't have strong views about Islam, or Christians, or Black people, or Jehova's witnesses, or scientologists.......


what about life after death and the reason why you exist ? what are your view on that?

it doesnt have a direct relevance to this topic but because most of you here are critizing someone you are not educated on it and some acusation are outrages I might say. as well as I could understand why would you reply in this why or ask.

It more like knowing who you are and trying to understand why you thinking this way

The Quran is not created but brought down. There have been a debate between muslims about this but i favouring the bought down thing.

2nd thing is about the prophet Mohammed uniting arabs if you know the history of Islam the prophet and the muslims didnt when they first started in Mecca didnt have a pleaseant experience espically after the prophet Uncle Abu Taleb died, who wasnt a muslim but was strongly protecting the prophet. The people of Mecca in pre-Islamic time where toturing the muslims and there was hight proption of them who are not arab to start with but slaves. So some muslims went to Euthiopea where the prophet said there will be a great King there who is justiced and good and will accept them and after awhile some left for Medina. So it is a complex pathway

BeWolf you are a man of science are you? If so the prophet was illetrate and the science in the Quran is so advance that some are just discovered in the 20th centurey. How could a person who is illetrate know these thing and its not only one thing but many scietific evidence on it.


I'm no scientist. Regarding science, the Koran is too vague and hit and miss for it to be credited with the advance knowledge of scientific facts.

I'm no scientist. Regarding science, the Koran is too vague and hit and miss for it to be credited with the advance knowledge of scientific facts.


what part did the Quran miss?

and also sometimes some of the thing you dont understand it now but in future and the technology is developed people will know.

there is many website about science and Quran and debate by Dr Naki Zaki who is a medical doctor.

If you are not a man of logic and science then the darkness of ignorance. I amd not trying to force you into something but it all for you choose on the things and go to debates read books. knowledge is power in any time and not only in modern time and I think most educated people belive in science and not telling to to become a scientist but giving you a scietifc evidence of the Quran

The Quran is not created but brought down. There have been a debate between muslims about this but i favouring the bought down thing.

2nd thing is about the prophet Mohammed uniting arabs if you know the history of Islam the prophet and the muslims didnt when they first started in Mecca didnt have a pleaseant experience espically after the prophet Uncle Abu Taleb died, who wasnt a muslim but was strongly protecting the prophet. The people of Mecca in pre-Islamic time where toturing the muslims and there was hight proption of them who are not arab to start with but slaves. So some muslims went to Euthiopea where the prophet said there will be a great King there who is justiced and good and will accept them and after awhile some left for Medina. So it is a complex pathway

BeWolf you are a man of science are you? If so the prophet was illetrate and the science in the Quran is so advance that some are just discovered in the 20th centurey. How could a person who is illetrate know these thing and its not only one thing but many scietific evidence on it.

Most non-Islamic scholars say that the Koran was composed by scholars under the supervision of a Caliph after Mohammed's death and was based upon the recollection of those that knew him. Secondly, the pages of ancient spiritual documents are far too obscure to try to locate specific scientific principles in them.

Most non-Islamic scholars say that the Koran was composed by scholars under the supervision of a Caliph after Mohammed's death and was based upon the recollection of those that knew him. Secondly, the pages of ancient spiritual documents are far too obscure to try to locate specific scientific principles in them.

many of the Arab because muslims because of the words of the Quran and they words and discription on it that many couldnt bemore amazed.

The Caliph did not write the Quran but the copyed it and there where things in arabic that was introduced to make reading in arabic easier because there where many non-arab muslims who mis-pronounce the world and in arab sometimes this means you change the whole meaning. and the scientific principles in the Quran was not know only after there was the techonolgy and advancement in science and discovery when it was knowen like the space is expanding was writen in Quran the new techonogly just made it more clear for use who dont have the strong arabic languge. Most arab know how to speak arabic but not masrering it so it doesnt appear to be clear.

All Islam is good for is producing wicked boxers. But they always get beat down by christians so you know.

“O Muslims! do your duty and rise up against oppression.

Demonstrate on 15th of June and end the slience! Come out and speak out, condemn the oppression we face. Respond to the call of Allah and the Messenger.


** I suspect that in Palestine, Sudan, Iraq and Afghanistan Muslims will busy shooting each other up, blowing each other up, and blowing up and burning down Mosques. The Islamic civil war and reformation has another 50 years to go before burning out.

** I suspect that in Palestine, Sudan, Iraq and Afghanistan Muslims will busy shooting each other up, blowing each other up, and blowing up and burning down Mosques. The Islamic civil war and reformation has another 50 years to go before burning out.

Islam is here to stay and if you dont see it you must be blinding. Even in Europe muslim are growing fast

Mate I agree with you Islam is a peaceful religion.

Let's agree that Islam is peace. But what about Muslims? Are they peaceful?

West Bank - Hamas versus Fatah. These Muslim brothers shoot each other dead on a daily basis, in a power struggle going back 1,500 years.

Lebanon - Hezbollah (Shia) versus Sunni-majority "Future" Party

Iraq/Iran War - Tens years of uninterupted killing in the name of Allah

Modern Iraq - When the US levaes, it will be Muslim on Muslim (mostly Shia on Sunni) in an effort to gain control on the government of Iraq.

Let's agree that Islam is peace. But what about Muslims? Are they peaceful?.


unfortunately, no. mostly not anyway, but i think its partly a cultural thing and not necessarily anything to do with the fact that they are muslim.

take my own personal experience of visiting pakistan. in this country, like most other struggling third world countries, life is cheap. people kill each other all the time for financial gain or honour. this isn't something taught in islam, killing is forbidden unless in defence of ones self or ones nation.

i imagine this is the same in palestine, iraq etc. with such desensitization to killing already in the culture, of course muslims will kill each other and non-muslims for political, financial or religious reasons.

My opinion is that the majority muslims are good people but Islam has some evil aspects to it. Hence why teachers find it so easy to twist scriptures and play with young muslims minds.

My opinion is that the majority muslims are good people but Islam has some evil aspects to it. Hence why teachers find it so easy to twist scriptures and play with young muslims minds.

what evil aspects are you talking about? there are no evil aspects, but the words of the Quran can be twisted to mean something else. remember that all authentic Quaran texts are written in arabic and although muslims are taught to read the words, they generally do not understand what the words mean and so rely on the interpretation of an islamic preacher.

translations do exist but these are not considered to be true, as they too rely on interpretation of the translater.

Let's agree that Islam is peace. But what about Muslims? Are they peaceful?

West Bank - Hamas versus Fatah. These Muslim brothers shoot each other dead on a daily basis, in a power struggle going back 1,500 years.

Lebanon - Hezbollah (Shia) versus Sunni-majority "Future" Party

Iraq/Iran War - Tens years of uninterupted killing in the name of Allah

Modern Iraq - When the US levaes, it will be Muslim on Muslim (mostly Shia on Sunni) in an effort to gain control on the government of Iraq.


Many of these thing ther are Mossade the making choas for the people. espically when Israel is trying to have country from Nile to the Forat which the muslim and arab population is too big for them the only way they could do it and protect themselves if they could turn the people toward each other instead of them.

This prinple of dividing people was done by british in India where even if the country comes many year later there will still be conflit that could inrupt into something bigger.

if people remeber there was a war between protestant and Catholics and there are many wars as for Sunnia and Shai the two princple of Islam is different as well as the belief is some what different.

but overrall long time ago when Islam was strong many of the countries entered Islam peacefully and not by the sword

Islam is here to stay and if you dont see it you must be blinding. Even in Europe muslim are growing fast

** You sure cast a dim bulb. Nobody ever claimed Islam was dying out, but it is evident that Islam is undergoing a bloody reformation and dragging in the whole world into their bloodshed.

Looking at your latest response which blames Israel for Muslim fanatics blowing each other up and everyone else they can reach would be laughable if it wasn't so criminally insane.

Islam is here to stay and if you dont see it you must be blinding. Even in Europe muslim are growing fast

Relax homie this is prophecised

http://www.thegully.com/essays/world/img_world/london_demo.jpg

http://clivedavis.blogs.com/clive/images/demo_pic.jpg

http://www.theaugeanstables.com/wp-content/images/londondemo9.jpg

http://www.actioninengland.gb.com/muslim_atrocities/God%20Bless%20Hitler.jpg

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/behead768453_1.jpg

** You sure cast a dim bulb. Nobody ever claimed Islam was dying out, but it is evident that Islam is undergoing a bloody reformation and dragging in the whole world into their bloodshed.

Looking at your latest response which blames Israel for Muslim fanatics blowing each other up and everyone else they can reach would be laughable if it wasn't so criminally insane.

well you are not form the middle east you are from the country who sold Palestine to Israel.

for the media in britian that is controled by strong jewish people that easliy control you though and making you believe you sure have some opoins about it.

The west the past century alway need an enemy after the sovet and commusim is gone they need a new enemy on sight.

If you dont know the fact Israel have the most powerful agency which is the Mossad and where the 3rd country in the world to have nuclear program just which was not knowen only ehen Vanun revealed it or people would have never knowen to it, they kidnaped him from Europe just to know what type diplomatic thing Israel is which is more powerful than European countries.

But for the anyone who critize Israel then he is against freedom and he is terroriest

If you dont know about Israel and the 67 war as well as the Belfourd treaty then I think you should make more research about it

http://www.thegully.com/essays/world/img_world/london_demo.jpg

http://clivedavis.blogs.com/clive/images/demo_pic.jpg

http://www.theaugeanstables.com/wp-content/images/londondemo9.jpg

http://www.actioninengland.gb.com/muslim_atrocities/God%20Bless%20Hitler.jpg


Every action there is a reaction there wasnt that protest in the 80s or I would show you some british Hooligans attacking muslims

So you blame it all on the Jews and the British then? Nah, Islam is the main ideological force for evil in the world at the moment and I'm not saying that because some Jewish bloke told me to.

But for the anyone who critize Israel then he is against freedom and he is terroriest

If you dont know about Israel and the 67 war as well as the Belfourd treaty then I think you should make more research about it

** You know very little about Islam, and even less about Israel and it's formation. The sheer idiocy of blaming Jews for Muslims blowing up mosques and each other shames your prophets.

Facts are that in 2000 before the infitada was cranked up again, Palestinians had a high standard of living thanks to Western aid, excellent diplomatic relations and few travel restrictions, but they never did anything about the festering blood cult that was infecting their culture and now it's all come down on them and infecting the rest of the middle east.

So you blame it all on the Jews and the British then? Nah, Islam is the main ideological force for evil in the world at the moment and I'm not saying that because some Jewish bloke told me to.

Islam is not the main ideological force for evil.. believe me!!!

do you even know what it says in the Jewish religious book - Torah

They want Israel to be half of Middle East!!! and they will not do anything to stop or back down until they accomplish this....

The only sad thing is that our fellow muslims are fighting each other, i.e, Shia's and Sunnis, who both have different believes and perspectives on Islam...

Its like the Irish, Catholics & Protestant war but worse!!!!:nonono:

** You know very little about Islam, and even less about Israel and it's formation. The sheer idiocy of blaming Jews for Muslims blowing up mosques and each other shames your prophets.

Facts are that in 2000 before the infitada was cranked up again, Palestinians had a high standard of living thanks to Western aid, excellent diplomatic relations and few travel restrictions, but they never did anything about the festering blood cult that was infecting their culture and now it's all come down on them and infecting the rest of the middle east.

According to what facts and figures can you prove that Palestine ever had a high standard of living, they never did and aslong as Israel want to occupy them, they never will... **** the Western aid, thats all bull****, what have the westerners done to help Palestine, nothing!!! because palestine is still the same even after all those years!!!!

why cant Israel just leave them alone!!!!:nonono:

do you even know what it says in the Jewish religious book - Torah

They want Israel to be half of Middle East!!! and they will not do anything to stop or back down until they accomplish this....


** More ignorance. Israel is a secular state, half of whom are atheists, Jewish in culture only. The Orthodox Jews are the only ones who strictly follow the Torah, and they are less than 10% of the population, about the same numbers as Palestinians who live as voting citizens in Israel.

Facts are that Israel has given traditional lands seized in the wars with Arabs back to Lebanon, Jordan, and a huge hunk of the Sinai back to Egypt. This is all part of the historical record, but of course all you have is opinion based on nothing.

why cant Israel just leave them alone!!!!:nonono:

** Israel gave them back Gaza, and minutes later they were on a looting, killing, burning rampage. Jordan kicked a bunch of them out of Jordan, and Egypt keeps the Gaza crossing as fortified as Israel does. Palestinians are a suicidal blood cult who sacrifices their children and now that blood cult is spreading throughout Islam. Nobody wants em.

** More ignorance. Israel is a secular state, half of whom are atheists, Jewish in culture only. The Orthodox Jews are the only ones who strictly follow the Torah, and they are less than 10% of the population, about the same numbers as Palestinians who live as voting citizens in Israel.

Facts are that Israel has given traditional lands seized in the wars with Arabs back to Lebanon, Jordan, and a huge hunk of the Sinai back to Egypt. This is all part of the historical record, but of course all you have is opinion based on nothing.

:banana:

o.k.. first things is, that Israel never did want to give the land back the thing was that after the 6 day war, the UN passed Resolution 242.

Which stated that Israel had to give the land back, and the belligerent parties had to normalize relations with Israel, etc etc...

do you really think that Israel wanted to give the land back, they still want the land and are attacking lebanon, etc for no reason...

they go onto attack lebanon saying a few of their soldiers were captured but the truth was that Hezbollah only captured them to retaliate for their men killed and captured a few days earlier, but that is not shown in the media, hence we have ignorance and many innocent killed and 95% lebanese!!!

i aint ignorant, you just cant stand to face the truth!!!!

So you blame it all on the Jews and the British then? Nah, Islam is the main ideological force for evil in the world at the moment and I'm not saying that because some Jewish bloke told me to.

okay could you tell me any Arab hero in the tv or movie and compare that with the normal arab sterotype villans roles that they usally have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Arab

the media is a powerful thing they could control you without you being feeling it but the keep repeating stuff and thing all over again and again and you rarely see a postive thing about muslims just the protest and these type of demonstartion.

do you know a person called Murdok? he controls part of FOXnew and many media outlet and now the Wall Street Journal which was abit of an outcry for many because he now going to have a monoply of information to most western countries and in Ukrian the major media outlet is also controled by jew which control the Eastern Europe part.

most people these day stay much more time in front of the tv than with there parents and that is a fact. you could see a group of people are trying to act like jackass I bet a few years ago if i told some teenager to do some of the stuff on jackass he wouldnt do it but now many are doing it on there own freewill. why are some people nowday are obessed with there body and plastic surgery where is growing a bigger trend.

in 50s the ass thing people though it was taboo but after the song about shaking it it becomes the new sexy thing and actress are dressing less by day

here is another online outline from PBS documentary:
Cool Merchant: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/view/
American ****: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/****/view/


** You know very little about Islam, and even less about Israel and it's formation. The sheer idiocy of blaming Jews for Muslims blowing up mosques and each other shames your prophets.

Facts are that in 2000 before the infitada was cranked up again, Palestinians had a high standard of living thanks to Western aid, excellent diplomatic relations and few travel restrictions, but they never did anything about the festering blood cult that was infecting their culture and now it's all come down on them and infecting the rest of the middle east.


so you trying to teach a muslim about islam? THe problem with Sunni and Shia is conflict of views. most Shia are loyal to Iran and Iran tried to invade GCC countries more than once so it is nothing new and in the first Gulf War where the Shia loyalties went to Iran. Its the same as you in Britian where you dont know where the loyaliest of the muslim, Russians and other ethinic and relgious groups loyaliest lays are they going to support you or not?

I not blaming jews as indiviaul but mostly blaming the zionist movement that is kick Palestine out of there land and terrorizing them. and anyway Israel is going to kill them if they work for them willing or unwilling because they have there agenda is to build the big Israel so the last war against lebonon in the summer last year it was testing how strong lebonon was and from the conversation of the two hostages is disappeared.

If you heard of Belfour 1927: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration%2C_1917
The white paper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill_White_Paper%2C_1922
the Rothchild family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayer_Amschel_Rothschild_family
JP Morgans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP_Morgan

If you want to investage more about these stuff you gotta follow the money. and the biggest banks are been hold by jewish private investors.

some day the Fedral Reserve is private owned by couple of European jews so techincally speaking they control how much US dollars.

** Israel gave them back Gaza, and minutes later they were on a looting, killing, burning rampage. Jordan kicked a bunch of them out of Jordan, and Egypt keeps the Gaza crossing as fortified as Israel does. Palestinians are a suicidal blood cult who sacrifices their children and now that blood cult is spreading throughout Islam. Nobody wants em.

yeah giving them Gaza and then bombing them nice idea i say.

and when Gaza was bombed nobody even cared even they where bombed before Lebanon and after lebonon bombing stoped they where still bombing Gaza thank you for reminding me


They gave it offically but behind the scene if a Palestine leaves his house and comback he would find a guard standing there.

it weird in this sitaution it like you supporting the KKK doing there stuff at blacks and critizing black and i know you would say something about my comment

it weird in this sitaution it like you supporting the KKK doing there stuff at blacks and critizing black and i know you would say something about my comment

** It ain't weird you wanna piggyback on the back of poor blacks under Jim Crow south. You just can't do the heavy lifting or provide the leadership they provided themselves.

40% of Israel consists of refugee Jews who had to flee for their lives after 1948 from Africa and middleeastern countries. It says volumes about these board Muslims' character and honesty that these Jews have no right of return and compensation. Fact is Jews and Christians have been fleeing these lands for a long time. The Saudis done purged them all 50 yrs ago, and that's the model you aspire to.

The Orthodox Jews are the only ones who strictly follow the Torah, and they are less than 10% of the population, about the same numbers as Palestinians who live as voting citizens in Israel

40% of Israel consists of refugee Jews who had to flee for their lives after 1948 from Africa and middleeastern countries.

Where are you getting these statistics from?

Where are you getting these statistics from?

** National Geo has been running demo breakdowns for at least a decade now along with various big city rags. Jordan and Israel became viable states in '47-48 because of leadership. Palestinians have had no such leadership and have been used as cannon fodder and house servants by surrounding Arab states ever since.

Do any of you really think that Palestine would survive if the state of Israel somehow disappears(well, it's not like they are surviving right now, more like having a nice civil war)?

Keep in mind that Palestine is liked by no other Middle Eastern country and the only source that helps them(money+jobs) is Israel. Yeah, go look it up most of the money and help(and pretty much all healthcare) they are getting is from Israel.

Iran and Syria is only good at giving them weapons to kill each other and Israelis(but more of each other)

Do any of you really think that Palestine would survive if the state of Israel somehow disappears(well, it's not like they are surviving right now, more like having a nice civil war)?

Keep in mind that Palestine is liked by no other Middle Eastern country and the only source that helps them(money+jobs) is Israel. Yeah, go look it up most of the money and help(and pretty much all healthcare) they are getting is from Israel.

Iran and Syria is only good at giving them weapons to kill each other and Israelis(but more of each other)


Well number one Iran and Syria are not really giving them weapon it the Israel force are giving them. They bribe the soliders oor security ( The documentary made by Oliver Stone is the proof on that)

and that hard fact is the some arab countries want to help but what prevent them is Israel and the US because then there will be conflict between the Middle Eastern countries. If now any middle eastern country even support morally then they are considered to be a terroriest country

The most important fact about this is the main problem is not only Israel but there isnt much supprot between each other and that what Israel want and doing and even western countries because long time ago when we where all together we reach European and we lost part of Europe because we where fighting each other and forgotten the word of God. The biggest evidence ins the mosques and in Spain and the mountain of Gibralter which is named after the general Tariq ben Zaid who didnt have support of the goverment when they reach there and he told his soldiers very famous words : " The enemy is in front of you and the sea is in back of you so it's either drowning or dieing with the sword."

Well number one Iran and Syria are not really giving them weapon it the Israel force are giving them. They bribe the soliders oor security ( The documentary made by Oliver Stone is the proof on that)


** Heh, heh, Israel gave you a serious case of dumb for sure!

** Heh, heh, Israel gave you a serious case of dumb for sure!


thanks drunk head.

and I thank the british goverment for buying our oil and making us rich :kiss:

it only business dont get angry when some of the tihngs in England is own by Middle Eastern