Touchy subject I know guys, but what did you make if the problems outside the ground, with loads of Liverpool fans with tickets not getting in.

I listened to a lengthy interview with Galliard and he was very sensible actually. With that many fans trying to get in there are not many options open to the authorities. They can either close the whole thing and there'll be a riot, or they can try to manage the situation but inevitably let in a few without tickets.

I hope the fans who tried to get in without tickets realise that they ruined it for some people including kids with tickets, and further to that, I hope that the British authorities reduce the number of flights going out to these events - If you don't have a ticket, you shouldnt' travel.

What disappoints me most about this is that we get the impression that Liverpool fans more than most know about the horrific events that can unfold, yet people are trying to justify fans going without tickets saying "Of course passionate fans are going to try to get in". Utter Bollocks and its time British clubs managed their away fans in Europe better.

With the man utd Roma spectacle the bad behaviour of the police was on camera; on this occasion I didn't see any bad behaviour from the police, just hooliganism from a significant minority of the travelling fans.

Errrrm, difficult question for me to answer as I was not there, but I will give it ago.

First of all I will not even attempt to defend the actions of the 'significant minority' as regardless of the passion and desire to watch the game they blatantly attempted or succeeded in frauduently gaining entry to the stadium which stopped fans with genuine tickets getting in!

However there are lost of questions that need answers like how did the 100's of EUFA VIP passes happen to fall into the hands of the touts?

How did hundreds of fans manage to get into the ground showing only the Official Match Programme?

How did 100's of fans with false tickets get past the officials with the ultra violet scanners?

Why were all the fans allowed past the first cordon into a confined area only to be then filtered between two buses which created a dangerous bottleneck resulting in obvious panic and frustration.

Why was that Stadium used for a Champions League final when it is blatantly obvious that the turn-styles and layout are not designed for football matches.

The most important question is why did two of the biggest clubs in Europe only get allocated 35,000 tickets for a stadium that hold 68,000-71,000?
Liverpool have over 30,000 season ticket holders and a projected active fan base of over 100,000 fans!

As for the travel situation I agree, fans without tickets should not be allowed to travel.

I do not condone the fraudulent attempts to gain entry nor do I condone any form of violence or rioting brought on by these events however as always you must look at all the facts and whilst some Liverpool fans are to blame it all boils down to poor management and decision making by the fat cats at UEFA!

I'm not going to defend all the fans, but it's what always happens. A minority ruin it for the majority.

I've heard countless stories of Liverpool fans mingling with the Milan fans and generally having a good time. But there was gangs from the city who went to Athens probably to just cause trouble. They are also responsible for the fake tickets according to one of todays paper. I cant remember which one though :(

And Uefa are out of order for saying that it's a mark of the British people, how could so many people without even a fake ticket get into the ground? And why didn't they have proper turnstiles? Uefa has to accept some of the blame for this. The ticket allocation was awful, too.

I also think the Greek police were over-zealous in their actions, throwing tear-gas at fans when they're just trying to make it to their seats is out of order. Especially with young kids around.

The blame lies at a lot of people's feet, but I think the gangs of the city played a huge part in the chaos.

"You should of died at Hilsborough"

(To the twats that jumped the fence)


Apparently some Liverpool hooligans have links to The Sun newspaper thats why it wasnt made a big deal of. I might have this all wrong btw it was probably front page lol.

"You should of died at Hilsborough"

(To the twats that jumped the fence)


Apparently some Liverpool hooligans have links to The Sun newspaper thats why it wasnt made a big deal of. I might have this all wrong btw it was probably front page lol.

Naz,

What are you getting at here? It doesn't make much sense?

"You should of died at Hilsborough"

(To the twats that jumped the fence)


Apparently some Liverpool hooligans have links to The Sun newspaper thats why it wasnt made a big deal of. I might have this all wrong btw it was probably front page lol.

I hope you're joking because that's sick.

It seems that Britain is one of the few countries in Europe which actually abides by the guidelines set down by UEFA. In Italy, Spain, France and Greece the authorities seem incapable of handling large amounts of travelling fans and the police do not seem to communicate any language other than the language of violence. It is about time UEFA started making sure these games are being handled properly because it is only a matter of time before a British football fan is killed by police at one of these games.

"You should of died at Hilsborough"

(To the twats that jumped the fence)


Apparently some Liverpool hooligans have links to The Sun newspaper thats why it wasnt made a big deal of. I might have this all wrong btw it was probably front page lol.

C'mon Naz, explain this!

Just a rumour I heard

Just a rumour I heard

OK, but what was the rumour? Your post is not clear!

sorry for the lack of a reply just back from a crazy weekend in Madchester.

I agree with the points on your posts guys, and I for one think that the whole area around the ground should be controlled such that people can't cram to the turnstiles as happened in Greece (according to reports).

My general point and one made by UEFA is that regardless of the imperfections of the stadia (and I don't believe they are not serious imperfections as existed in the 80s), English football clubs and the british authorities need to take some responsibility for the actions of their fans rather than just say "It's not our fans, its hooligans, we're not to blame".

I have not seen anything that really incriminates the Greek police (although I wouldn't be surprised if they were heavy handed. I'm not sure what they can do when a large group of fans do not follow instructions and surge forward into potentially dangerous situations.

I admit I was particularly disappointed that it was Liverpool "fans" who were involved in this irresponsible behaviour. We hear so much about Hillsborough and Heysel and there is so much sympathy (quite rightly), but the interviews with Liverpool fans who had got in illegally made my blood boil. They genuinely didn't care about the fans who didn't get in or the deaths they could have caused by their actions.

I think memories are beginning to fade and its about time some action was taken to remind English supporters of the bad old days. Because our fans need a ****ing kick up the backside, no question.

Congrats to Derby, unlucky Tesco boys.....

sorry for the lack of a reply just back from a crazy weekend in Madchester.

I agree with the points on your posts guys, and I for one think that the whole area around the ground should be controlled such that people can't cram to the turnstiles as happened in Greece (according to reports).

My general point and one made by UEFA is that regardless of the imperfections of the stadia (and I don't believe they are not serious imperfections as existed in the 80s), English football clubs and the british authorities need to take some responsibility for the actions of their fans rather than just say "It's not our fans, its hooligans, we're not to blame".

I have not seen anything that really incriminates the Greek police (although I wouldn't be surprised if they were heavy handed. I'm not sure what they can do when a large group of fans do not follow instructions and surge forward into potentially dangerous situations.

I admit I was particularly disappointed that it was Liverpool "fans" who were involved in this irresponsible behaviour. We hear so much about Hillsborough and Heysel and there is so much sympathy (quite rightly), but the interviews with Liverpool fans who had got in illegally made my blood boil. They genuinely didn't care about the fans who didn't get in or the deaths they could have caused by their actions.

I think memories are beginning to fade and its about time some action was taken to remind English supporters of the bad old days. Because our fans need a ****ing kick up the backside, no question.

Congrats to Derby, unlucky Tesco boys.....

OW, I cannot agree with points about the behaviour of fans as I only say it as I see it, and during my recent numerous recent visits abroad I have only seen good behaviour on the whole from English fans (Liverpool and England).

I spent two days last summer in Dortmund during the World Cup and the English fans were being praised by the German Police out there whilst the Italian, Portuguese and Argentinian fans had behaved poorly (according to news broadcasts out there)

I do believe that Liverpool fans have learnt from Hysel and Hillsborough and on the whole behave impeccably. As with any huge group of people you will get a percentage of those who are just ****in idiots and Liverpool has their fair share but the majority of the issues in Athens were caused by poor management on the whole.

I do not blame the Greek Police for their heavy handedness at all but you must understand that the 'news' that comes back to the UK it not the based entirely on fact.

Yep, as you say we don't know exactly what happened out there, but I still think we should consider everything we can do to prevent trouble with British fans, if only to put pressure on uefa to take our valid points about continental strategies seriously.

Cos when you get 50,000 British fans trying to get into 17,000 or however many seats, we haven't got a leg to stand on.

"You should of died at Hilsborough"

(To the twats that jumped the fence)


Apparently some Liverpool hooligans have links to The Sun newspaper thats why it wasnt made a big deal of. I might have this all wrong btw it was probably front page lol.

You are a ****in moron.

Why is it only scousers who turn up to games without tickets and try and barge in??? or mugging their own fans??? No other club in the world would do this.
Why can Celtic manage to go to a final and those without tickets can go watch it in a bar or on a screen?? Why do Liverpool fans do it time and again and always blame someone else????

IF YOU HAVENT GOT A TICKET, GO TO A BAR. DONT MUG YOUR OWN FANS, OR BARGE IN TO THE GROUND.
It time harsh lessons of the past were learned from before more inoccent lives are taken by the actions of drunken ticketless scousers.

Ban Liverpool from Europe for 5 years for the behaviour of the fans

Why is it only scousers who turn up to games without tickets and try and barge in??? or mugging their own fans??? No other club in the world would do this.
Why can Celtic manage to go to a final and those without tickets can go watch it in a bar or on a screen?? Why do Liverpool fans do it time and again and always blame someone else????

IF YOU HAVENT GOT A TICKET, GO TO A BAR. DONT MUG YOUR OWN FANS, OR BARGE IN TO THE GROUND.
It time harsh lessons of the past were learned from before more inoccent lives are taken by the actions of drunken ticketless scousers.

Ban Liverpool from Europe for 5 years for the behaviour of the fans

Adie, what the **** are you talking about?

Surely you don't believe the crap that's reported?

OK, lets ban Liverpool from Europe because there was two incidents where fans fought over tickets being sold from a tout! Lets ban Liverpool because a number of fans managed to kid their way into the ground by showing programmes or VIP tickets.

Never mind that 99% of fans behaved impecably and that local shop keepers, bar owners and general members of the public thought they were on the whole polite and good fun.

I'll say it again, it the game was managed well from the start none of this would have happened, we had a similar scenario in Istanbul but the Turks managed the situated perfectly and there were no problems.

Saying ban the 'scousers' because this happened is like saying lock up all men in the UK under 30 because of the crime rate!!!

Anyway there were a few incidents, but on the whole this has been blown out of proportion.

There were no violent riots, there was very little fan on fan violence and on the whole it was a peaceful night.

You stick 70,000 people in one area without guidance and you will have incidents, you only need to look at any city centre on a Saturday night to see that.

Many of my friends attended this game and I have had 1st hand accounts of this and trust me it was a storm in teacup!

"You should of died at Hilsborough"

(To the twats that jumped the fence)


Apparently some Liverpool hooligans have links to The Sun newspaper thats why it wasnt made a big deal of. I might have this all wrong btw it was probably front page lol.

WTF

You ****ing cock!

Why is it only scousers who turn up to games without tickets and try and barge in??? or mugging their own fans??? No other club in the world would do this.
Why can Celtic manage to go to a final and those without tickets can go watch it in a bar or on a screen?? Why do Liverpool fans do it time and again and always blame someone else????

IF YOU HAVENT GOT A TICKET, GO TO A BAR. DONT MUG YOUR OWN FANS, OR BARGE IN TO THE GROUND.
It time harsh lessons of the past were learned from before more inoccent lives are taken by the actions of drunken ticketless scousers.

Ban Liverpool from Europe for 5 years for the behaviour of the fans


Why, it was **** all?

If the Italians can riot and murder people and the Turks can go round stabbing people, why ban Liverpool or anyone for that matter for trying to gain entrance to the ground?

I mean I understand that this is poor behaviour but if it was organised and policed correctly it wouldn't happen.

Also it was open terracing wasn't it? Therefore there couldn't be the repeat of Hillsborough etc?

Strange post that, sure you aint a Scum supporter?

Why is it only scousers who turn up to games without tickets and try and barge in??? or mugging their own fans??? No other club in the world would do this.
Why can Celtic manage to go to a final and those without tickets can go watch it in a bar or on a screen?? Why do Liverpool fans do it time and again and always blame someone else????

IF YOU HAVENT GOT A TICKET, GO TO A BAR. DONT MUG YOUR OWN FANS, OR BARGE IN TO THE GROUND.
It time harsh lessons of the past were learned from before more inoccent lives are taken by the actions of drunken ticketless scousers.
Ban Liverpool from Europe for 5 years for the behaviour of the fans

Adie, the more I read this the more I lose respect for you mate.

You were at Hillsborough, you know that the fault lay at the policing of the dividing gate not at actions of the drunken ticket less scousers, not to mention the fact there were fences that were unlocked way too late etc etc etc!

I'm gutted by some of the posts on here!

Ok, I'm not getting at Liverpool fans here, and I don't agree with what adie said but I can't help but get the feeling that we're blaming everything on the foreign authorities while taking NO responsibility ourselves.

It is British fans who have had problems this year, it was British fans who pushed through turnstiles in Athens meaning fans with tickets couldn't see the game. It's not all the authoities fault, and we can either ignore this or we can do something about it.

And as for it being a storm in a tea cup - things always look like that when there isn't a disaster, but we all know that in reality you can be very close to a catastraphe and at the end of it you think it was nothing. I'd trust the advice of UEFA and even the foreign authorities than the anecdotal evidence of a few fans who wer probably pissed up at the time!

Ok, I'm not getting at Liverpool fans here, and I don't agree with what adie said but I can't help but get the feeling that we're blaming everything on the foreign authorities while taking NO responsibility ourselves.

It is British fans who have had problems this year, it was British fans who pushed through turnstiles in Athens meaning fans with tickets couldn't see the game. It's not all the authoities fault, and we can either ignore this or we can do something about it.

And as for it being a storm in a tea cup - things always look like that when there isn't a disaster, but we all know that in reality you can be very close to a catastraphe and at the end of it you think it was nothing. I'd trust the advice of UEFA and even the foreign authorities than the anecdotal evidence of a few fans who wer probably pissed up at the time!

OW, of course you are right but my point isn't that the fans didn't missbehave becuase they did, my point was that they should not have been allowed to do so!

When I say poor management I dont just mean the Athens authorities I mean Liverpool Football Club, The British Police, The Airlines, The FA, UEFA, Customs and the Greek Government.

By that I mean:

1. LFC tell fans not to travel and threaten any fans found in breach of an agreed code of conduct that they will be banned from any future Liverpool games. LFC to provide all Authorities with defined list of who will be attending the game.
2. British Police to work along side UK Customs and stop fans travelling without a ticket as well as clamping down on British based ticket touts.
3. Airlines to refuse entry to fans unless they can prove they have a ticket or a booked holiday.
4. The FA to pressure UEFA to supply a fairer amount of tickets.
5. UEFA to provide more tickets to the genuine fans as well as managing and recording which tickets go where and how they are used. Also VIP passes etc to be strictly managed. Also ensure that the venue is well prepared for an event of this magnitude.
6. Greeks - stop where applicable sales of tickets, stop all unauthorised movement around the area and they should have provided a well planned filter area so that crowd movement could be controlled.


If some or all of the rules had been adhered I'm sure that the 'trouble' would not have occurred. Add into that a core set of Liverpool hooligans who should be stopped and banned from ever attending or being around a LFC game again and I'm sure this will be nipped in the bud.

As for believing UEFA of the media ahead of 'anecdotal evidence of a few fans who were probably pissed up at the time', I heard evidence from several people, one who travelled with his wife and the other was from a United Reform Minister who doesn't drink and felt so threatened by the experience that he will never travel again to a game again.

He stated that many fans got in with match programmes, many had the UEFA VIP passes and walked straight in whilst many innocent fans were herded into a bottleneck then tear gassed and baton-ed.

So if we agree that there are a core set of wankers at Liverpool Football Club and that there is no excusing the way they behaved then how do we address the overall issues that fans could get in with programmes, VIP passes and fake tickets?
This alone should have been managed more securely and effectively!

Agreed on all points Micky.

Don't make me sound like I'm disrespecting your sources, I just know that evidence needs to be more thorough than individuals' views of proceedings that they are themselves involved with!

Let's hope all parties take notice as you say and this can be a thing of the past next season.

Adie, what the **** are you talking about?

Surely you don't believe the crap that's reported?

OK, lets ban Liverpool from Europe because there was two incidents where fans fought over tickets being sold from a tout! Lets ban Liverpool because a number of fans managed to kid their way into the ground by showing programmes or VIP tickets.

Never mind that 99% of fans behaved impecably and that local shop keepers, bar owners and general members of the public thought they were on the whole polite and good fun.

I'll say it again, it the game was managed well from the start none of this would have happened, we had a similar scenario in Istanbul but the Turks managed the situated perfectly and there were no problems.

Saying ban the 'scousers' because this happened is like saying lock up all men in the UK under 30 because of the crime rate!!!

Anyway there were a few incidents, but on the whole this has been blown out of proportion.

There were no violent riots, there was very little fan on fan violence and on the whole it was a peaceful night.

You stick 70,000 people in one area without guidance and you will have incidents, you only need to look at any city centre on a Saturday night to see that.

Many of my friends attended this game and I have had 1st hand accounts of this and trust me it was a storm in teacup!


Iv been going to football games since 1978. Sorry to say this but Liverpool fans are the biggest bunch of morons bar none. They turn up to games with no tickets and try and barge in for free, they even steal tickets at games from kids and old men. After Hysel and Hillsboro you would think lessons had been learned but no, blame everyone but themselves.
Why can other clubs travel europe without this happening, particulary Celtic who travel in far greater numbers have none of this.
Iv seen footage of Scoucers jumping over fences and fighting police to get into the ground.
Any Liverpool fan who tried to get in without a ticket should hang their head in shame.
I was at Hilsboro in 89. it will live with me forever, truly tragic. Innocent suffered as usual and drunken ticketless idiots turning up late accept no blame at all.
When will Liverpool fans learn????
After Hysel all English Teams were Banned for 5 years because of idiots from Liverpool whether they had caused trouble or not. Liverpool should be taught a harsh Lesson or do we have to wait for more inoccent lives to be lost at the hands of Liverpools so called Fans.

Adie, the more I read this the more I lose respect for you mate.

You were at Hillsborough, you know that the fault lay at the policing of the dividing gate not at actions of the drunken ticket less scousers, not to mention the fact there were fences that were unlocked way too late etc etc etc!

I'm gutted by some of the posts on here!

Do you not agree that at Hilsboro there were thousands of Ticketless fans turning up at last minuite trying to get in to the ground???? This was a FACTOR. Im not saying it was the only reason but it played a part in what happened IMO. The police were wrong in what happened but Liverpool supporters played their part.
If they had got to the game in pleanty of time with a ticket maybe none of it would have happened?????
The Forest fans managed to get into the ground in an orderly fashion and we had more fans there than Liverpool, why cant Liverpool fans behave the same.
I have lots of sympathy for those lost in 89, and at Hysel.
Look at end of day
Hilsboro
Hysel
Athens
There is only one constant. Liverpool.

Do you not agree that at Hilsboro there were thousands of Ticketless fans turning up at last minuite trying to get in to the ground???? This was a FACTOR. Im not saying it was the only reason but it played a part in what happened IMO. The police were wrong in what happened but Liverpool supporters played their part.
If they had got to the game in pleanty of time with a ticket maybe none of it would have happened?????
The Forest fans managed to get into the ground in an orderly fashion and we had more fans there than Liverpool, why cant Liverpool fans behave the same.
I have lots of sympathy for those lost in 89, and at Hysel.
Look at end of day
Hilsboro
Hysel
Athens
There is only one constant. Liverpool.


Adie,

Obviously you have your opinion and you are entitled to it but I find it incredulous that you have the lopsided view of Liverpool fans.
I too have been watching live football since 1978 and can honestly say hand on heart that I have completely different view on the Liverpool fans to you and that is not just because of my allegiance to the team and the club but by my experiences of interacting with thousands of other supporters all over the world.

I have come across good and bad supporters everywhere I that includes Forest supporters, your opinion is just that an opinion, I have been welcomed in cities across Europe and we as a club have been applauded for the our spirit and good heartiness.

Liverpool prior to Hysel were not regarded as a trouble making club, I know first hand that the trouble at Hysel although terrible and regrettable was not only started by the Italians but intensified by idiots from Millwall and Chelsea who wore blue laces with Grolsch bottle tops to identify themselves.
Liverpool fans rose to the bait yes and that was idiotic and mindless but a stand/wall collapsed and that was tragic but not planned???

Hillsbourogh, well enough said, we paid the price for the love of our team, no one else so don't make judgements on our behaviour there, as the only ones who can judge are us.

You mention Hysel, Hillsborough and Athens and say the common element is Liverpool but they are completely different occurrences.

We have been the most successful English side bar none and continue to push for honours, this means we attend many finals, this leads to high brow coverage.

Of course we have an element of hooliganism within our ranks but so does every club, the difference is that we are the second largest supported club in England with over 60,000 + active fans and a projected fan base world wide of millions therefore we obviously will have bad eggs in the basket but I know for a fact that we as a club are one of the friendliest around, that in my eyes is a fact!

Adie,

Obviously you have your opinion and you are entitled to it but I find it incredulous that you have the lopsided view of Liverpool fans.
I too have been watching live football since 1978 and can honestly say hand on heart that I have completely different view on the Liverpool fans to you and that is not just because of my allegiance to the team and the club but by my experiences of interacting with thousands of other supporters all over the world.

I have come across good and bad supporters everywhere I that includes Forest supporters, your opinion is just that an opinion, I have been welcomed in cities across Europe and we as a club have been applauded for the our spirit and good heartiness.

Liverpool prior to Hysel were not regarded as a trouble making club, I know first hand that the trouble at Hysel although terrible and regrettable was not only started by the Italians but intensified by idiots from Millwall and Chelsea who wore blue laces with Grolsch bottle tops to identify themselves.
Liverpool fans rose to the bait yes and that was idiotic and mindless but a stand/wall collapsed and that was tragic but not planned???

Hillsbourogh, well enough said, we paid the price for the love of our team, no one else so don't make judgements on our behaviour there, as the only ones who can judge are us.

You mention Hysel, Hillsborough and Athens and say the common element is Liverpool but they are completely different occurrences.

We have been the most successful English side bar none and continue to push for honours, this means we attend many finals, this leads to high brow coverage.

Of course we have an element of hooliganism within our ranks but so does every club, the difference is that we are the second largest supported club in England with over 60,000 + active fans and a projected fan base world wide of millions therefore we obviously will have bad eggs in the basket but I know for a fact that we as a club are one of the friendliest around, that in my eyes is a fact!

There was some bloke on the radio today from Liverpool supporters group to do with Hilsboro. He was saying pretty much same as me about liverpool fans and you think they would learn but dont.
I dont post to upset you it is just what iv seen over many years.
Iv been to most grounds in england and sorry to say it but Liverpool is by far the worst place to go because of the supporters. There are some places better than others but Liverpool sucks. But Everton is a pretty good place to go??????
Dont appreciate bad Karma because of an Honest opinion. And I dont want to see any more people hurt or worse for the sake of a football Match

From BBC Sport


"Uefa have criticised Liverpool fans' behaviour
A damning report by European football's governing body says Liverpool fans are the worst-behaved in Europe.

Uefa says Reds fans have been involved in more incidents in Europe during the past four years than any other club.

Ticketless fans caused trouble at May's Champions League final, although the club criticised security at the game.

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard said: "That was just the latest example. What other fans steal tickets from fellow fans or from the hands of children?"

Uefa's report will be handed to sports minister Richard Caborn on Tuesday.

In it, Uefa paints a damning picture of the Anfield club's supporters' behaviour at the Champions League final against AC Milan in Athens, which the Italian side won 2-1.

Gaillard added: "We know what happened in Athens, and Liverpool fans were the cause of most of the trouble there.

"There have been 25 incidents involving Liverpool fans away from home since 2003 and these are in the report - most teams' supporters do not cause any trouble at all."

Liverpool have sent their own report to Uefa complaining about lax security measures at the final.


You must ask yourself why at the Champions League, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans - only the Liverpool fans

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard
Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry said: "The shortcomings in the management of the situation in Athens were apparent to anyone who was there.

"This latest statement from Uefa should not deflect attention from that reality."

Many supporters with forged tickets or no tickets at all managed to gain access to the stadium.

Disorder broke out before kick-off when fans were held back because of congestion outside the ground.

Police told fans going through the penultimate checkpoint to slow down or even stop moving, then riot police formed a line to stop other fans joining queues to move through the checkpoint.

Former Conservative leader and Liverpool fan Michael Howard was at the game and said ticket checks at the stadium were "a joke".


How can Uefa choose a football ground without a turnstile - just a metal gate that opens - its just not football is it?"

Liverpool fanzine editor Andy Knott
Fans were already aggrieved over Uefa's ticket allocation for the Champions League final, with the governing body making 17,000 tickets available to each club for a stadium that had a capacity of 63,000.

Of those tickets, Liverpool were able to make just 11,000 available to fans because of obligations to sponsors and former players.

But Gaillard said: "You must ask yourself why at the same match, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans - only the Liverpool fans."

But the city of Liverpool hit back at Uefa's criticism.

Lord Mayor Paul Clark was quoted in the Liverpool Daily Post as saying: "Uefa appear to be trying to avoid the blame for the disorganisation of the final."

Les Lawson, spokesman for the official LFC supporters' club, said: "This is typical of Uefa. Rather than look at their own shortcomings, they want to shove the blame somewhere else.

"The fact they are not willing to stand up and take responsibility is worrying for fans, because that means they will never learn from their mistakes."

Council leader Warren Bradley said: "Uefa is dragging Liverpool's name through the mud to deflect attention from themselves.

"There should be a full and appropriate investigation. There is very little information about what actually went wrong.

"It was only a small minority who caused problems but the people at the top of Uefa think they have the divine right to criticise people."

Phil Hammond, of the Hillsborough Justice Support Group, added: "We condemn the behaviour of some fans, but it was not helped by the way the police acted, they made it worse. Uefa are not justified in making these comments."

Andy Knott from the Liverpool fanzine Red All Over told BBC Radio Five Live that both the fans and the authorities were to blame for what happened in Europe this season.




He said: "It's a culmination of everything. The Liverpool fans weren't innocent and a lot of them have got to have a look at themselves and take that into account.

"But at the same time Uefa have got to look at it and instead of trying to give token games to people with big stadiums, they've got to do it in a proper way.

"I mean how you can have a football ground without a turnstile - where it's just a metal gate that opens and you walk through - its just not football is it?"

Ahead of the final in Athens, Uefa president Michel Platini said: "I am convinced that both Liverpool and Milan fans will contribute to making the Athens final a landmark in festive behaviour.


"I would also like to take this opportunity to thank and praise the fans who have attended the semi-finals for creating such a wonderful atmosphere at the matches.

"They have contributed in a positive manner to making the semi-finals such an exciting spectacle." "

From BBC Sport


"Uefa have criticised Liverpool fans' behaviour
A damning report by European football's governing body says Liverpool fans are the worst-behaved in Europe.

Uefa says Reds fans have been involved in more incidents in Europe during the past four years than any other club.

Ticketless fans caused trouble at May's Champions League final, although the club criticised security at the game.

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard said: "That was just the latest example. What other fans steal tickets from fellow fans or from the hands of children?"

Uefa's report will be handed to sports minister Richard Caborn on Tuesday.

In it, Uefa paints a damning picture of the Anfield club's supporters' behaviour at the Champions League final against AC Milan in Athens, which the Italian side won 2-1.

Gaillard added: "We know what happened in Athens, and Liverpool fans were the cause of most of the trouble there.

"There have been 25 incidents involving Liverpool fans away from home since 2003 and these are in the report - most teams' supporters do not cause any trouble at all."

Liverpool have sent their own report to Uefa complaining about lax security measures at the final.


You must ask yourself why at the Champions League, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans - only the Liverpool fans

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard
Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry said: "The shortcomings in the management of the situation in Athens were apparent to anyone who was there.

"This latest statement from Uefa should not deflect attention from that reality."

Many supporters with forged tickets or no tickets at all managed to gain access to the stadium.

Disorder broke out before kick-off when fans were held back because of congestion outside the ground.

Police told fans going through the penultimate checkpoint to slow down or even stop moving, then riot police formed a line to stop other fans joining queues to move through the checkpoint.

Former Conservative leader and Liverpool fan Michael Howard was at the game and said ticket checks at the stadium were "a joke".


How can Uefa choose a football ground without a turnstile - just a metal gate that opens - its just not football is it?"

Liverpool fanzine editor Andy Knott
Fans were already aggrieved over Uefa's ticket allocation for the Champions League final, with the governing body making 17,000 tickets available to each club for a stadium that had a capacity of 63,000.

Of those tickets, Liverpool were able to make just 11,000 available to fans because of obligations to sponsors and former players.

But Gaillard said: "You must ask yourself why at the same match, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans - only the Liverpool fans."

But the city of Liverpool hit back at Uefa's criticism.

Lord Mayor Paul Clark was quoted in the Liverpool Daily Post as saying: "Uefa appear to be trying to avoid the blame for the disorganisation of the final."

Les Lawson, spokesman for the official LFC supporters' club, said: "This is typical of Uefa. Rather than look at their own shortcomings, they want to shove the blame somewhere else.

"The fact they are not willing to stand up and take responsibility is worrying for fans, because that means they will never learn from their mistakes."

Council leader Warren Bradley said: "Uefa is dragging Liverpool's name through the mud to deflect attention from themselves.

"There should be a full and appropriate investigation. There is very little information about what actually went wrong.

"It was only a small minority who caused problems but the people at the top of Uefa think they have the divine right to criticise people."

Phil Hammond, of the Hillsborough Justice Support Group, added: "We condemn the behaviour of some fans, but it was not helped by the way the police acted, they made it worse. Uefa are not justified in making these comments."

Andy Knott from the Liverpool fanzine Red All Over told BBC Radio Five Live that both the fans and the authorities were to blame for what happened in Europe this season.




He said: "It's a culmination of everything. The Liverpool fans weren't innocent and a lot of them have got to have a look at themselves and take that into account.

"But at the same time Uefa have got to look at it and instead of trying to give token games to people with big stadiums, they've got to do it in a proper way.

"I mean how you can have a football ground without a turnstile - where it's just a metal gate that opens and you walk through - its just not football is it?"

Ahead of the final in Athens, Uefa president Michel Platini said: "I am convinced that both Liverpool and Milan fans will contribute to making the Athens final a landmark in festive behaviour.


"I would also like to take this opportunity to thank and praise the fans who have attended the semi-finals for creating such a wonderful atmosphere at the matches.

"They have contributed in a positive manner to making the semi-finals such an exciting spectacle." "

An excellent well balanced post OW!

Of course LFC has to take a long look at itself following some of the behaviour at Athens but the UEFA report is incredibly lopsided.

As you know better than most OW (working in politics) the best way to deflect your own mistakes to to enhance and highlight someone else's, this report stinks of spin doctoring and a finger must be pointed not just at Gaillard but at Platini also.
Platini to me seems to have a hidden agenda, obviously given his tragic history with Liverpool, we seem to be part of it!
To suggest that Liverpool have had the worst record in Europe is simply ludicrous and I wait with baited breath to read the full report because it cannot be justified.
As I have said before, there are fans from many nations who have been involved in murder, rioting and general hooliganism for years, even culminating in some matches being played behind closed doors yet the Liverpool fans are the worst???

We as a club obviously must take this report as a warning because it seems our nations reputation precedes us regardless of what happens elsewhere.

There is obviously some truth within this report and for that I am ashamed but believe only what seems credible!

UEFA brand Liverpool fans the worst in Europe.

From experiance they are certainly worst in England IMO.

MickyHatton give me some good Kama to make up for the bad you gave me. Its not yust me who thinks Livderpool Supporters are poor and need to sort it out.

The truth is the truth, if it hurts so be it.

I only give bad karma to abusive morons, not because i dont agree with a valid opinion

UEFA brand Liverpool fans the worst in Europe.

From experiance they are certainly worst in England IMO.

MickyHatton give me some good Kama to make up for the bad you gave me. Its not yust me who thinks Livderpool Supporters are poor and need to sort it out.

The truth is the truth, if it hurts so be it.

I only give bad karma to abusive morons, not because i dont agree with a valid opinion

I didn't give you bad Karma, I gave your post the Karma. In general I agree with most of the things you say and being of similar age I can relate to some of your statements but not on this matter, of course I didn't agree with you but that wasn't the point, I was offended in the manner you stated your opinion.

I quote "It time harsh lessons of the past were learned from before more inoccent lives are taken by the actions of drunken ticketless scousers.

Ban Liverpool from Europe for 5 years for the behaviour of the fans"

I am a travelling Liverpool Supporter and see my fellow fans week in week out, and after watching over 500 games, I would consider myself as someone who can comment on my clubs supporters.

I have obviously seen various acts of hooliganism in our ranks but in small pockets, on the whole we are a great bunch of travelling supporters, that is a fact!

If you lived on Merseyside you understand why we take these actions very seriously, I have spent the weekend with Red and Blue fans who have the same opinion as me.

Yes, a small group of fans ****ed up but on the whole 50,000 fans behaved well. You stated that other clubs bring more fans but dont do this, again I disagree on both points.
No disrespect but your out of touch, Liverpool take more fans to Europe than anyone else, yes other clubs take huge numbers like Celtic, Man U and Newcastle but they too have pockets of trouble and I'm sure Oasis Lad and others will back me up on this.
I was in Dortmund in the early 90's when 150 Celtic fans destroyed the Newspaper Bar in Dortmund Square then pulled the vat out of another bar called Venkers and tried to empty into the fountain. the other 30,000+ that night were superb so.....it happens.

Therefore I wont offer good karma, I disagreed with your post and I disagree with you on this subject and always will.
Doesn't mean I want to piss in your pint or anything!

Nothing is ever cut and dry, is it?


Uefa president Michael Platini has denied that Liverpool fans are the worst-behaved in Europe.
Uefa spokesman William Gaillard made the claim after trouble at the Champions League final, but Platini has now backtracked on those remarks.

"No they are not the worst behaved in Europe," said Platini. "It's official, they are not the worst behaved."
Platini was speaking after a meeting with Sports minister Richard Caborn about the problems in Athens.


The Frenchman added: "This is an old story. We know about this, it is just that more English fans follow their clubs than those from other countries.

"It is not as if one set of fans are good or one set bad. This is not the question in the end. We cannot go around saying that."

Uefa says it will use Caborn's suggestions to try to avoid a repeat of the problems at the final between Liverpool and AC Milan.

Caborn met Platini to receive a report on the problems caused by ticketless Reds fans at the Olympic Stadium.

Platini approved of Caborn's idea for a working party to be set up by Uefa to find suitable venues for future finals.

Caborn said: "It was a very useful and constructive meeting."

Platini's report outlined 25 incidents involving Liverpool away from home in Europe since 2003.

Before meeting Platini in Brussels, Caborn had appealed for Uefa to stop blaming Reds fans for the ticket problems which had dogged the final in Athens.
Caborn said: "Platini wants to make sure we don't have a repeat of events in Athens. We want to learn from the past and make sure we can have safe grounds for supporters.

"I suggested they set up a working party, which was well-received by Platini, and I have offered the expertise of the Football Licensing Authority who are respected on a worldwide basis.

"They'll be looking at major European finals and I hope they can start setting some standards for clubs entering the competitions that they have to meet certain criteria."

Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks had reacted angrily to Gaillard's condemnation of fans' behaviour.

He said: "The guy from Uefa who said that doesn't know what he's talking about.

"Uefa did not handle this right at all. To give 17,000 tickets to the two teams, particularly knowing Liverpool are going to bring 40,000 fans, is insane.

"It's a classic case of a bureaucrat trying to take the pressure off himself. They didn't handle it right, they didn't have proper ticketing procedures and unfortunately there were counterfeit tickets.

"There were fans who paid their hard-earned money to get their tickets and they get to the stadium and are told there is no more room."

Meanwhile, Steven Gerrard has laid the blame at Uefa's door, despite fierce criticism of Liverpool supporters who got into the stadium in Athens for their 2-1 defeat without tickets.


Gerrard, however, claims his friends and family who went to the final all found the organisation lacking - and even the club's hotel facilities laid on by Uefa were not good enough.

"It upsets me because we've travelled everywhere together for the six or seven years I've been in the first team," he said.

"From what I've seen their behaviour has been fantastic. So it surprises me to hear that.

"I had friends and family at the final. Their opinion was that the organisation wasn't good enough.

"I'm sure when it all gets broken down they will conclude that the organisation wasn't good enough and maybe a minority of Liverpool fans have let themselves down.

"But as far as I'm concerned the European Cup final has got to be in a bigger stadium with better organisation.

"Our set-up wasn't good enough either. Our hotel facilities weren't good enough."

Nope, it rarely is. I just hope that once the political manouvering has died down all sides involved takes steps to make sure we get no repeats or worse in the future. It was interesting to get both your inside view and Adie's third party experience, however much opposed they were.

Nope, it rarely is. I just hope that once the political manouvering has died down all sides involved takes steps to make sure we get no repeats or worse in the future. It was interesting to get both your inside view and Adie's third party experience, however much opposed they were.

I personally blame both side equally and have spoken with Micky on this!

Micky is actually a member of the Supporters Organisation and I am fairly sure they had some form of emergency meeting this week to discuss these findings.

I have watched City for years and haven't found Liverpool fans too bad to be truthful, there was once incident at Anfield about 10 years ago where I managed to get into the Kop with a mate and they found out and I got smacked and had to be escorted out but that happens at every ground.

To me it looks like UEFA have attempted to shift blame to disguise their short comings, saying Liverpool fans are the worst in Europe is like saying Milan are the best side in Europe, obviously on their day they could be but so could many other teams, this stands for fans as well IMO.

Also I can only comment on the domestic league, my club doesn't know where Europe is!

My club doesn't know where the Premiership is. In 2003-4, they stumbled into it by mistake, but then wandered out without even realising where they'd been.

Man city were shocking this season weren't they. I can't think of a single redeeming feature, even Barton ruined it again. has Micah Richards progressed as planned?

My club doesn't know where the Premiership is. In 2003-4, they stumbled into it by mistake, but then wandered out without even realising where they'd been.

Man city were shocking this season weren't they. I can't think of a single redeeming feature, even Barton ruined it again. has Micah Richards progressed as planned?


Who do you support?

As for City, we have a love hate relationship with the club.

Like the city to the west of us we are the poor blue relations to the mighty red side but unlike them we are struggling to stay in this league, Everton are doing well!

Barton is a big time charlie and good luck to whoever takes him, he's a good footballer but not that good!

Micah is a great player but I cannot see us keeping him, like Wright Phillips he is a shining star in our squad and the big clubs are sniffing.

Our only saving grace is our fans, we still manage to have decent following which in turn allows us to keep afloat.

People still say we are a big club, if we were then maybe the likes of Ranieri would have came!

Its still fun though mate, in a sadistic way!

Who do you support?

As for City, we have a love hate relationship with the club.

Like the city to the west of us we are the poor blue relations to the mighty red side but unlike them we are struggling to stay in this league, Everton are doing well!

Barton is a big time charlie and good luck to whoever takes him, he's a good footballer but not that good!

Micah is a great player but I cannot see us keeping him, like Wright Phillips he is a shining star in our squad and the big clubs are sniffing.

Our only saving grace is our fans, we still manage to have decent following which in turn allows us to keep afloat.

People still say we are a big club, if we were then maybe the likes of Ranieri would have came!

Its still fun though mate, in a sadistic way!

Obviously Wolves eh?

Your like us then, a sleeping giant! A ****in deep sleep I say!

Obviously Wolves eh?

Your like us then, a sleeping giant! A ****in deep sleep I say!

**** me LL, more than one post in a day, go take a lie down now mate!