it was a good fight but i think baer gave him too many open looks.

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idk im not gonna watch that whole thing lol, but i saw the movie "cinderella man" and both fighters wer fighting dirty. it was a comeback and underdog win for braddock . but u kno how hollywood is.

idk im not gonna watch that whole thing lol, but i saw the movie "cinderella man" and both fighters wer fighting dirty. it was a comeback and underdog win for braddock . but u kno how hollywood is.

this isnt max baer vs. braddock, its joe louis vs max baer....i never saw cinderella man but i dont think theyd have this fight in there...

it was a good fight but i think baer gave him too many open looks.

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Baer was terrified of Joe Louis before the fight. Jack Dempsey was his trainer and manager, and when Baer told Dempsey he didn't want to fight, Dempsey said, "You go out there and get your beating in the ring, or I'll give it to you here in the dressingroom!"

Baer was terrified of Joe Louis before the fight. Jack Dempsey was his trainer and manager, and when Baer told Dempsey he didn't want to fight, Dempsey said, "You go out there and get your beating in the ring, or I'll give it to you here in the dressingroom!" :rofl: hahahahahha

Baer never really took his career seriously. Apparently, he had talent; but he hardly trained and liked to clown around in the ring. Loved the nightlife and women...just like the rest of us.

I have the Braddock-Baer fight on dvd, but I never saw this one. Was interesting to watch. Seems like Baer was kinda scared.

[QUOTE=The Underboss;2253739]it was a good fight but i think baer gave him too many open looks.

I found an article by Grantland Rice after he'd visited Baer's training camp 5 days before the bout that gives some interesting insights into where Baer's head was at and Rice's opinions of Baer's readiness for the fight.

Enjoy,
Cat
www.maxbaer.org

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The Sport Light - by Grantland Rice

Bear Feels Fit

Speculator. Sept. 19.—"Whatever happens in this fight," Max Baer told me. "—And I'm going to win—just put it down that I am in the best condition I ever knew in my life. If Louis can whip me now, he could whip me any time I ever started. But Louis isn't going to whip me. Please remember that."

Baer had just finished 4 rounds against George Turner and Abe Feldman, the two best sparring partners he has drawn in any field.

"How did I look?" he asked. Baer had knocked Abe Feldman down with a right hand - the first time in his career Feldman had ever bounced off the floor.

"You want an honest answer? I asked Max.

"Sure," he said. "Go the limit."

"You looked about the same as you always look in these training exhibitions. Nothing to yell about. They both hit you 20 times with a left hook because your right guard was too low."

"That's right." Izzy Kline, his trainer, said. "I've been telling Max about that. He's got to keep it higher."

"You know I can't box," Max said. "I'm not a boxer. I never was and I never will be. If I'm not a fighter, then I'm not anything. I wasn't anything against Jim Braddock. But I give you my word I'll be different this time. This is where I rise or fall. If I win, I'm on my way to a million. If I lose I'm a bum and I may never get another chance. Nobody knows that better than I do."

Baer's Strength and Weakness

In watching Max work out, you could figure these angles of strengths and weakness. As Max put it, "I feel as strong as a young bull." There is no question about his gameness and his ability to take a terrific punch-or several in a row.

His pride is now at stake and he will stay up as long as his legs can lift him. He has a murderous right hand-when he can land it. He has only a fair left-a rippling left, when he can bend it like a big bow. His stomach is lean and hard-almost too lean. He stepped on the scales at 211 pounds, wearing wooden sandals. He invited all present to sock him in the stomach. No question that Baer has given everything he has in stock to get right.

"I haven't even smoked a cigaret, Grant, for six weeks," he said. "I haven't broken any training rule. I may take a bottle of beer tonight if you'll come up for a bridge game. Dig us up a couple of suckers-but not that Hal Sims. He took $4 from me a little while ago before I knew the game had started."

"How's your golf?" I asked him.

"Only played once," he said. "and then I took too many divots. They were big ones-but not as big as I'll take out of Joe Louis' chin."

Now we'll come to Max Baer's weaker side. He was wide open for a left. Russell and Feldman laid at least 20 clean punches over Baer's lowered right guard-and they landed with a wham that reverberated aroudn the Adirondack peaks. His next weakness-one that might be fatal-was his comparative lack of speed. When Baer gets that right hand under way, it can whistle for the last two feet. It comes flashing in like a streak of lightning. But it has to get away to a long start. Max starts it back in the $2 seats, and by the time it has reached ringside, it is almost inconceivable that Louis' chin is going to be waiting in the road. For that chin of Louis is something on the order of a timber wolf's head. Ever try to slap a timber wolf in the face ? There is an animal reaction to Louis that reminds one of the wild, before too much civilization has begun to work on normal reflexes.

Lack of Protection

Bear is game enough-tough enough-and a hard puncher with that right. But his weakness is lack of protection. He is almost sure to leave himself open. He was coached to keep that right hand up, but, after the first few flurries, through force of habit, it fell far below the safety line. Habit and instinct can be conquered in shadow boxing, just as the golfer curing a fault can swing correctly at a cigar stump or a dandelion.

But once it goes into the box score, that makes it all different. Then old habits and old instincts and old faults come rolling back. They come rolling back through the subconcious mind.

"What is your angle," Baer asked, "on how to start this fight?"

"Turn it into a mixture of football, wrestling, slugging and everything you can get by with," I suggested. "One of the big factors on the Joe Louis side is balance. He is the best balanced competitor I ever saw—one of the best, at least. If you can't crowd him off balance—then you can't win. The longer the fight goes—the less chance you have, He can outbox you two to one. He is just as dangerous as you are—and with either hand. He is faster. But his main power comes from perfect balance. If you can't upset that balance, then you can't win."

"That's what Billy McCarney tells me." Max said. "And that's the way I'm going to fight. I'm telling you this is going to be a fight."

Neither Baer nor Louis cares a rap about losing a round on a foul. One round thrown away means nothing in this scrap. So there is quite a chance that several rules may be overlooked or forgotten, in spite of the earnest admonitions of the boxing commission. For Baer's best and only chance is to win this fight by a rough and tumble brawl.

Max won't admit this. But that is the way the road winds, and down in his heart Max must know it. If he can't crowd Louis off balance, there can only be one answer. The only way this fight can go to a 15-round decision is if both are scared. And I don't believe either man is. Of the two, after having visited both camps I should say that Baer is doing most of the worrying. The answer is that he has the greater imagination. And there are times in sports when imagination is a handicap rather than a help.

it was a good fight but i think baer gave him too many open looks.

Something I found during research of my website that I've always found interesting.

Cat
www.maxbaer.org

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Just after Max's death, his accountant, Bayard Bookman stated that Baer broke his hand during training for the bout and was given a shot of Novocaine before walking into the ring to fight Louis. When the needle was inserted too near the wrist, instead of controlling pain it deadened his entire right arm. "Max had the intelligence and imagination to know what Louis could do to him, and here he was going in with his main weapon - his only weapon, actually - useless." In round 2, before a crowd of 95,000 astonished viewers, Max Baer was knocked to the canvas for the first time in his career. Louis had taken Baer's best right and "didn't even blink. Max might as well have thrown a cream puff against a brick wall." In "11 minutes and 51 seconds, the youthful Negro punched Baer into a bloody, senseless wreck; a battered figure still trying to muster the pretense of his once marvelous powers of resistance, fading out of the picture in defeat with magnificent gestures of futility."

Something I found during research of my website that I've always found interesting.

Cat
www.maxbaer.org

------------------------------------------

Just after Max's death, his accountant, Bayard Bookman stated that Baer broke his hand during training for the bout and was given a shot of Novocaine before walking into the ring to fight Louis. When the needle was inserted too near the wrist, instead of controlling pain it deadened his entire right arm. "Max had the intelligence and imagination to know what Louis could do to him, and here he was going in with his main weapon - his only weapon, actually - useless." In round 2, before a crowd of 95,000 astonished viewers, Max Baer was knocked to the canvas for the first time in his career. Louis had taken Baer's best right and "didn't even blink. Max might as well have thrown a cream puff against a brick wall." In "11 minutes and 51 seconds, the youthful Negro punched Baer into a bloody, senseless wreck; a battered figure still trying to muster the pretense of his once marvelous powers of resistance, fading out of the picture in defeat with magnificent gestures of futility."yea i know. but you have to understand that joe louis was pretty strong. max baer wasn't smart enough. everybody says it. he had a great chin and a great right hand. but no brain.

Baer never really took his career seriously. Apparently, he had talent; but he hardly trained and liked to clown around in the ring. Loved the nightlife and women...just like the rest of us.

I have the Braddock-Baer fight on dvd, but I never saw this one. Was interesting to watch. Seems like Baer was kinda scared.

yea i know. but you have to understand that joe louis was pretty strong. max baer wasn't smart enough. everybody says it. he had a great chin and a great right hand. but no brain.

baer had amazing natural talent, he was very strong, he had an iron chin, but mentally he just didn't have it. he was very scared of joe louis. joe was too smart, too talented, and too black for max

max baer was a great guy, he loved partying, he loved women and having fun, he'd be the best to go out drinking with but he did not the the determination to be a great fighter

exactly. he wasn't a smart boxer. that's why he lost many fights.

he had a vicious right hand and good speed/strength but no mind.

For that chin of Louis is something on the order of a timber wolf's head. Ever try to slap a timber wolf in the face ? There is an animal reaction to Louis that reminds one of the wild, before too much civilization has begun to work on normal reflexes.Great article MG with some good insight into Baer's mindset before he actually had to step into the ring and face Louis.

The above quote is another example of the racial overtones many of the writers of that era who would often use by making references to Louis and wild animals. Another reminder of the times Louis emerged from.

Very good stuff, thanks.
Never knew that maxie had his right arm injured going into fight with Louis.

yea i know. but you have to understand that joe louis was pretty strong. max baer wasn't smart enough. everybody says it. he had a great chin and a great right hand. but no brain.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Joe's awesome talent, he's amazing, but stating "everybody says it" that Max was a dummy holds no water, its dead wrong and unfair.

Max was aware of his failures, he states them right in the Grantland Rice article I posted. Max killed a man in the ring, did Joe ? If Joe had, don't you think it would have ****ed with his head a bit, too ? Should Max have trained harder, taken it all more seriously, etc. etc.? Of course, but its a fact that prior to the Campbell bout, he trained seriously and boxed successfully, and after Frankie's death, he clowned. That death effected every aspect of his later fights. Schmeling and Nova both said when Baer had them down and could've finished them, he backed off in fear of harming them permanently.

Was Max a dummy in the Schmeling bout ? Against, Risko, Heeney, Loughran, Levinsky, Foord, Comiskey ? When Louis was training for Schmeling II he was asked which Max he'd rather fight as challenger to his title and he replied, "I'd rather fight Schmeling twice than Baer once. Baer's got a dangerous punch in both hands, Schmeling only has the one."

Baer's record was 72-12-0, 53 of those fights were knockouts. Not bad for a dummy.

Cat
www.maxbaer.org

Very good stuff, thanks.
Never knew that maxie had his right arm injured going into fight with Louis.

My pleasure John.

Max actually injured his hands 3 weeks before the Braddock fight, then never let them heal properly before going up against Louis.

Check out my 'FAQs' page about his hand problems before Braddock, and under a question about Joe Louis, the reference to his hand problems again, which Max blows off. http://www.maxbaer.org/faqs.html

Regards,
Cat
www.maxbaer.org

Great article MG with some good insight into Baer's mindset before he actually had to step into the ring and face Louis.

The above quote is another example of the racial overtones many of the writers of that era who would often use by making references to Louis and wild animals. Another reminder of the times Louis emerged from.


Thanks Sabbath.

I thought it was pretty rare that Max opened up so much and allowed himself to be quoted so liberally in that article, it was unusual for the era. However, I recently finished reading Granny Rice's "The Tumult and The Shouting" and that Rice was just so damn easy going and pleasant and concerned about others, I think he was like a pseudo-father figure to alot of young men and women of all sports of the times, they just couldn't help but unload on him !

Agreed on the ****ty times that Louis emerged from. Whenever I hear how he was advised by his handlers to be above reproach in every way or else the public would turn on him (ala Jack Johnson), and how quiet he was, I wonder, how many outbursts or verbal explosions he *wanted* to make but couldn't.

Alternately, during Louis-Schmeling II, while that situation was helpful in the public's eventual love of Louis, (my father still gets misty eyed recalling listening to it) they certainly treated Schmeling horribly thinking all Germans were Nazis. In Schmeling's autobio he writes how he thought back to bout I, when everyone cheered him as he departed the blimp or the boat, and how as he arrived for bout II, the public all but spit on him.

Ugly ugly times.....Cat

I've read contradicting reports about the public's reaction to Schmeling. I have his autobio as well and read it years ago but the recent David Margolick book (I recommend it) paints a somewhat less attractive portrait of Schmeling than what I'm used to. Not that I buy everything Margolick writes in the book, I do think it's slanted against Schmeling a bit, but if even half the things he writes about Schmeling are true, Schmeling is well, more human and less saint than I've imagined him in my teenage years.

About that first fight, I've also read that some Americans were reportedly cheering the perceived (by the general public) nazi on to "kill the ******" towards the end of the first fight when the great american hero was on the verge of being knocked out.

Ugly times indeed.

I've read contradicting reports about the public's reaction to Schmeling. I have his autobio as well and read it years ago but the recent David Margolick book (I recommend it) paints a somewhat less attractive portrait of Schmeling than what I'm used to. Not that I buy everything Margolick writes in the book, I do think it's slanted against Schmeling a bit, but if even half the things he writes about Schmeling are true, Schmeling is well, more human and less saint than I've imagined him in my teenage years.

About that first fight, I've also read that some Americans were reportedly cheering the perceived (by the general public) nazi on to "kill the ******" towards the end of the first fight when the great american hero was on the verge of being knocked out.

Ugly times indeed.

i bet anyhting this is true. kid, u grew up in the 80's and 90's - now we have political correctness, even though some people still think thse things it's no longer ok to say them. even in the 1960's, the world was a very different place than what it is now. for example jimi hendrix was referred to by many "non rascist' whites as " the electric ****** " and saying something like that was accepted by repsectable society. but the racial overtones of the louis - schmeling fight made the rematch so cool, when joe destroyed schmeling in 1 round, all of black america was out literally dancing and partying in the street. only when u know what that fight meant to black america do u understand why joe louis was so loved

About that first fight, I've also read that some Americans were reportedly cheering the perceived (by the general public) nazi on to "kill the ******" towards the end of the first fight when the great american hero was on the verge of being knocked out.Keep in mind that World War 2 didn't begin until Germany invaded Poland in 1939. At the time of the first Schmeling-Louis fight in 1936, I'm going to guess that few American fight fans could spell Nazi much less knew what the political party stood for or represented. The atrocities of their actions wouldn't become known until years later after the war began.

It's shameful that fans would call for Schmeling to "kill the ******" , but cheering for Schmeling over Louis sounds worse in hindsight than it would have at the time.

sabbath who's that guy in your avataar?That would be me.