OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there.

The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages.

But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer.

Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ":

Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad.

Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat.

Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either.

Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?)

Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad...

Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper

Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26

Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him.

Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak.

Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight.

It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old.

C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare.

Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive.

Razor Ruddock really made his name from LOSSES to Mike Tyson.

He turned out to be a bust.

I am always wary of fighters who make it that way....

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there.

The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages.

But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer.

Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ":

Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad.

Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat.

Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either.

Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?)

Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad...

Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper

Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26

Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him.

Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak.

Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight.

It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old.

C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare.

Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive.


After the williams fight vitali is forced to fight either or

barrett
beck
toney
rahman
byrd

that is a given that was stressed at the wbc convention.....But barrett/beck is an eliminator and toney will have another eliminator once he heals ups......I could see vitali fighting rahman though :(

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there.

The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages.

But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer.

Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ":

Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad.

Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat.

Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either.

Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?)

Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad...

Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper

Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26

Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him.

Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak.

Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight.

It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old.

C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare.

Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive.


Vitai's losses were all paper losses. He has earned his reputation in his fight with Lewis. Lewis did win the fight, but Vitali did not loose the fight. That's how I saw it. :cool:

If you have a dif opinion, I'm fine with it. Like you, I would like to see Vitali fight the best, but there are many effective constraints which Vitali is not responsible for.


Nautilus, A Dedicated Mughugger

Oh look, another Vitali hater...how original.

Vitali had two weeks to prepare for Lewis because Johnson went out with injury. I don't know what would have happened had the fight gone on longer than 6 rounds, regardless of whether or not Lewis was out of shape (by eight pounds), nonetheless Lewis had all he could handle with Vitali and to me that is enough to warrant respect for Vitali. Yes I would like to see Vitali fight Byrd again and Golota, but it's not up to Vitali it's up to satan and presently that's not a good sign.

I think the originator of this thread has a good point. It is true that this guy is known for fights that hes lost and he is for some reason at the top of the HW division. What a sad state the HW division is in....Look who the top 5 most popular fighters are (IMO)

Vital
Tyson
Wlad
Toney
Holyfield

PATHETIC!!!!

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there.

The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages.

But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer.

Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ":

Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad.

Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat.

Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either.

Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?)

Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad...

Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper

Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26

Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him.

Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak.

Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight.

It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old.

C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare.

Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive.

This stuff is never ending.

I don't know what Vitali or Wladimir will ultimately accomplish.
They are however in the same division that made Lewis and others famous.

In regards to neils comments about Lewis and Byrd, the Lewis was "out of shape" thing is just an excuse Lewis fans use for why their fighter was getting beat. In fact, Lewis was only a couple pounds heavier than usual. neils was also implying that Vitali had some kind of advantage with the fight being set only a week in advance, well Vitali took the fight on a weeks notice too and they were already in training for a fight so I don't see the relevance.

The one thing I know for sure is that non Klitschko fans will always find something to complain about. (Lewis out of shape, Johnsons fat, Sanders old, and so on.) They will find something wrong with all his future opponents too. I think the latest is that Williams is not worthy. Hell, if Vitali beats up everyone and retires at 52 years old, they will say he's a wimp for not fighting his brother or find something else to complain about. These people have already made their mind up about the Klitschkos and that will never change. I wouldn't be surprised if one of their favorite fighters got beat up by a Klitschko in the past, fueling their hate.

IMO - The only thing that would help Vitali shut up the haters is (1) if he beat up Lewis some more, but Lewis ran away and "escaped" into retirement before that could happen, Or (2)if he beat up Byrd again but Don King won't let that happen.

I don't know what will happen with either Klitschko, or even if they will win their next fight. IMO - They do deserve some respect for climing to the top of this division. Despite what some people say, they are entertaining and even the haters have to enjoy the 90%+ KO ratio. Or maybe they prefer Byrds "run away" style.

I try to take the negative Klitschko comments with a grain of salt, arguing selectively, with the haters that need a garage door to fit their head into their house.

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there.

The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages.

But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer.

Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ":

Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad.

Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat.

Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either.

Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?)

Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad...

Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper

Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26

Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him.

Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak.

Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight.

It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old.

C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare.

Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive.


who should he fight then? its not Vitali's fault the HW division is as shallow as a street puddle.

Razor Ruddock really made his name from LOSSES to Mike Tyson.

He turned out to be a bust.

I am always wary of fighters who make it that way....

thats cause he lost both fights mr dumass (ruddock that is)

vitali has never been outboxed or overpowered and should have won both of his losses if it wasnt for his injuriers

get the facts straight!

i refuse to have a debate of wits with an unarmed man!

unlike th other champs, VK has 2 losses, but yet to be beaten.... byrd has been KTFO and soundly beaten.... ruiz has been KTFO and thoroughly beaten..... brewster has been soundly beaten.... rahman has been KTFO on several occasions... VK has never been down or way behind on the score cards....

Unlike the other belt holders, Vitali hardly loses a round, and his only close fight was against Lewis, and we all remember how lopsided the fight was before Lewis was fighting a one eyed Vitali. Also remember it takes more than 7 lbs for someone who is 6'5'' to become all of the sudden fat and out of shape. I think it had more to do with age and Vitali's style and activity (he threw 40 jabs and 70 punches per round).

Corrie Sanders: I take it you haven't seen the Rahman fight? Sanders gave Rahman a run for his money. He KD and nearly knocked him over the ropes, as well as dominating the early rounds before he flamed out as usual.

Kirk Johnson: Is Ruiz's only good win and its a DQ.

Larry Donald: VK was the first one to stop him. Bowe couldn't do it and Kirk Johnson only beat him 112-116, 113-115, 110-118.

Vaughn Bean: VK also the first one to stop him. Have you seen the Bean v. Holyfield fight? It was surprising close at times. Holyfield beat him 110-117, 110-117, 111-116. He lost to Moorer 113-116, 113-115, 114-114. His only other loss was in his last fight to Tony Thompson. I know nothing about this guy, but Boxrec has him ranked 21.

Timo Hoffman: Lost to Sprott but beat him in his next fight and his loss to Akinwande was a SD.

Herbie Hide: Bowe did KD Hide 7 times, but it took him nearly 6 rounds to finish him, and in doing so he lost at least 2 rounds to him on every scorecard. That's 3 rounds for Bowe, 2 rounds for Hide. Take away the KD's and you have yourself a close fight.

Danny Williams: Don't forget his loss to Sam.

Oh look, another Vitali hater...how original.

A sizeable thread with many examples is followed with the even more unoriginal dismissal as a "hater" post.

Why do you even take the time to respond if all you can come up with is the equivalent to "nuh-uh". Try varying your posts from now on. Mix your "hater" stuff in with some other phrases that the mainstream has taken and ruined.

Next time you don't agree with me, perhaps "talk to the hand" or "don't go there" or "you ain't all that girlfriend". It's easier on the eyes to have more than one incompetent argument.

Neuraxis had a good rebuttal post. You did not.

Unlike the other belt holders, Vitali hardly loses a round, and his only close fight was against Lewis, and we all remember how lopsided the fight was before Lewis was fighting a one eyed Vitali. Also remember it takes more than 7 lbs for someone who is 6'5'' to become all of the sudden fat and out of shape. I think it had more to do with age and Vitali's style and activity (he threw 40 jabs and 70 punches per round).

Corrie Sanders: I take it you haven't seen the Rahman fight? Sanders gave Rahman a run for his money. He KD and nearly knocked him over the ropes, as well as dominating the early rounds before he flamed out as usual.

Kirk Johnson: Is Ruiz's only good win and its a DQ.

Larry Donald: VK was the first one to stop him. Bowe couldn't do it and Kirk Johnson only beat him 112-116, 113-115, 110-118.

Vaughn Bean: VK also the first one to stop him. Have you seen the Bean v. Holyfield fight? It was surprising close at times. Holyfield beat him 110-117, 110-117, 111-116. He lost to Moorer 113-116, 113-115, 114-114. His only other loss was in his last fight to Tony Thompson. I know nothing about this guy, but Boxrec has him ranked 21.

Timo Hoffman: Lost to Sprott but beat him in his next fight and his loss to Akinwande was a SD.

Herbie Hide: Bowe did KD Hide 7 times, but it took him nearly 6 rounds to finish him, and in doing so he lost at least 2 rounds to him on every scorecard. That's 3 rounds for Bowe, 2 rounds for Hide. Take away the KD's and you have yourself a close fight.

Danny Williams: Don't forget his loss to Sam.


very, very nice.

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there.

The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages.

But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer.

Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ":

Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad.

Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat.

Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either.

Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?)

Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad...

Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper

Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26

Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him.

Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak.

Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight.

It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old.

C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare.

Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive.

ok now post the "impressive" records or record of the guy you belive is the tru champ
go ahead include lewis his opponents werent all that impressive
and are you dumb u dont factor in losses after they fought a guy
that only helps to make him look good
most fighters arent the same after losin much less being ko'd which is more often the case with Vit

Hey neils I'll just stick to the basic and logical reason on this one . . . for me irregardless of how many loses or K.O.s a fighter has on his records . . . . if he wins a belt then that makes him a champion. And should be regarded as one.

I think Vitali is on top of heap coz, really nobody out there is showing they are better than Vit....

Just a question if not Vitali who else can claim they are the best heavy weight today....

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there.

The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages.

But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer.

Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ":

Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad.

Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat.

Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either.

Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?)

Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad...

Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper

Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26

Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him.

Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak.

Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight.

It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old.

C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare.

Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive.

Well, when you put it THAT way...looks pretty grim.. :(

Well that wasn't surprising.

He's fighting everyone he can fight, what the **** do you want? I'll bet you could SHOW him how to do it better than you could TELL him how, why don't you?

Hey neils I'll just stick to the basic and logical reason on this one . . . for me irregardless of how many loses or K.O.s a fighter has on his records . . . . if he wins a belt then that makes him a champion. And should be regarded as one.
Agreed! Best post/reply ever submitted on this thread/topic. Simple and understandable.

One more thing...

Vitali Klitschko OWNS!!!!

Can't argue with that, lol

I had Big K winning the fight, too, but I also saw a very good chance for him to lose it. The last thing in the fight, right before the stoppage in the corner was Lewis hitting Big K so hard he stumbled along the ring ropes all the way across the ring.

That wasn't a good sign for Big K.

Hey neils I'll just stick to the basic and logical reason on this one . . . for me irregardless of how many loses or K.O.s a fighter has on his records . . . . if he wins a belt then that makes him a champion. And should be regarded as one.

I don't disagree that he doesn't deserve to be a champion. He won the vacant WBC title bout to win the belt.

What I wonder is, why do 80 some percent perceive him to be the true heavyweight champion, as the HBO poll showed? I think he's got The Ring belt, too. Byrd's resume is better and includes a win over Vitali. Ruiz lost to a light heavy, but his overall competition is better than V. Klitschko's as well.

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there.

The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages.

But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer.

Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ":

Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad.

Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat.

Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either.

Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?)

Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad...

Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper

Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26

Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him.

Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak.

Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight.

It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old.

C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare.

Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive. At last someone speaks the truth. Vitali is a big guy who beat a few no named little guys, rofl, I guess he is just the lamers big white hope, rather the white hype, he will be exposed when he fights a decent fighter........

ok now post the "impressive" records or record of the guy you belive is the tru champ
go ahead include lewis his opponents werent all that impressive
and are you dumb u dont factor in losses after they fought a guy
that only helps to make him look good
most fighters arent the same after losin much less being ko'd which is more often the case with Vit

Why not factor in the losses after they fight a guy? So you're saying that if Rydell Booker loses when he fights another guy with a name we can credit James Toney with being the guy who derailed his career? Most people who get fights with contenders have sparkling records through 20 or so fights. That's what gets them there. Losing once they fight someone decent exposes them for being overrated, as was apparently the case with Timo Hoffmann and Ed Mahone.

ok now post the "impressive" records or record of the guy you belive is the tru champ
go ahead include lewis his opponents werent all that impressive
and are you dumb u dont factor in losses after they fought a guy
that only helps to make him look good
most fighters arent the same after losin much less being ko'd which is more often the case with Vit

The post was about Vitali's weak opponent record, not any other heavyweight champs' but I will go ahead and list the 2 guys I would say are more credible champions than Vitali's last 10 opponents along with his and you can see who has the stronger pedigree. I understand that Byrd's fights with his last 2 were controversial decisions, but the fact remains that he still holds the belt with wins on paper so they count. I would say John Ruiz is the true heavyweight champ in my eyes, but that's only because the rest of the division is just so damn bad. I would rank Byrd ahead of Klitschko too. This doesn't mean I think those 2 guys would beat Vitali (necessarily - though I think Ruiz would), it just means that they have better cause to call themselves the "Recognized" champion.

CHRIS BYRD LAST 10 WINS AND DRAW

Andrew Golota (draw; retains belt)
Fres Oquendo
Evander Holyfield
Jeff Pegues
David Tua
Maurice Harris
David Vedder
Vitali Klitschko
David Na'il
Val Smith

JOHN RUIZ LAST 10 WINS AND DRAW

Fres Oquendo
Hasim Rahman
Kirk Johnson
Evander Holyfield (draw; retains belt)
Evander Holyfield
Thomas Williams
Fernely Feliz
Mario Cawley
Jerry Ballard
Tony Tucker

VITALI KLITSCHKO LAST 10 WINS

Corrie Sanders
Kirk Johnson
Larry Donald
Vaughn Bean
Ross Purrity
Orlin Norris
Timo Hoffmann
Obed Sullivan
Ed Mahone
Herbie Hide

Klitschko's opponents are obviously a distant third.

That doesn't take into effect how those fights were won, or how good the fighter is doing now.

Last 10 Win Lists are Pointless:

DaVarryl Williamson
Danell Nicholson
Fabio Eduardo Moli
Jameel McCline
Ray Mercer
Francois Botha
Charles Shufford
Derrick Jefferson
Chris Byrd
Monte Barrett

I think that undisputed stauts is really confered to a fighter by the public and the media. Regardless of who holds the Ring Belt or any alphabet soup belt for that matter. The reality is that Vitali has had all of his fights including is title winning preformance on non PPV and he is a seemingly likable guy, who is big and gave Lewis a hard time. Thats why he is getting as much attention as he is which is still not that much.

I don't disagree that he doesn't deserve to be a champion. He won the vacant WBC title bout to win the belt.

What I wonder is, why do 80 some percent perceive him to be the true heavyweight champion, as the HBO poll showed? I think he's got The Ring belt, too. Byrd's resume is better and includes a win over Vitali. Ruiz lost to a light heavy, but his overall competition is better than V. Klitschko's as well.


So okay got your point. AS to the HBO polls, I guess that can be attributed more on him being more exposed and to the boxing public.

I don't disagree that he doesn't deserve to be a champion. He won the vacant WBC title bout to win the belt.

What I wonder is, why do 80 some percent perceive him to be the true heavyweight champion, as the HBO poll showed? I think he's got The Ring belt, too. Byrd's resume is better and includes a win over Vitali. Ruiz lost to a light heavy, but his overall competition is better than V. Klitschko's as well.


Paper losses or wins do not mean ... much to the public. The public decides who won or lost a fight. The public often disagrees with judges, and often rightfully so.

Many people have expressed the view that Byrd essentially (a) lost to Oquendo, a B level fighter, (b) lost to Golota, a shot and rusty fighter, (c) lost to Wlad Klichko, who many people here call a shot bum (unfortunately), and (d) lost to Vitali. On paper, he won (a), (b), (d), but 80% of people polled by HBO apparently think otherwise.

The same can be said for the wrestling wins of Ruiz. Not many people appreciate those. Plus Ruiz was beaten by some old guy later knocked out by Glenn Jonson.

Lastly, Vitali's competition was as good as it gets: Lewis, Byrd, Sanders, Donald, Johnson, not too bad, right? ... And what ultimately matters is what the public thinks about Vitali's performance in those fights, not what the paper says.

In the big K - Lewis fight, Vitali looked really good against Lennox, he was really taking it to him, and i think in that fight he won the people's respect - i'm not a big VK fan, but he's got my respect for beating Lewis in the first half of that fight. We all know Lennox is a slow starter, it always takes him a few rounds to get warmed up, and, at the time Vitali was cut it really looked like Lennox was tired of eating punches and was starting to wake up, so we'll never know what would have happened if there had been no cut. any way you slice it, Lennox was in for a tough night, even if he turned things around and started dominating.